Recognizing life as a playground is part of the journey to reenergizing exhausted employees, creating safe spaces to share ideas, and encouraging teams to scale greater heights. Listen in for a sneak peek of the concepts Manley Feinberg, business leader and expert mountain climber, will share during the 2025 DMEC Compliance Conference in April!

And join us April 14-17, 2025 in Columbus, Ohio for the 2025 DMEC Compliance Conference

DMEC: Welcome to Absence Management Perspectives, a DMEC podcast. The Disability Management Employer Coalition, or DMEC as we're known by most people, provides focused education, knowledge and networking opportunities for absence and disability management professionals. DMEC has become a leading voice in the industry and represents more than 20,000 professionals from organizations of all sizes across the United States and Canada. This podcast series focuses on industry perspectives and delves into issues that affect DMEC members and the community as a whole. We're thrilled to have you with us and hope you'll Visit us at www.dmec.org

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Manley Feinberg: Yeah. Hi Heather. I'm grateful to be with you all. Unfortunately, it's not just disability absent manager professionals that are dealing with this, but especially with the work you all do. It's so complex and there's just between regulations and you're dealing with humans, of course, always makes it challenging. I think people find themselves burned out even though they have once found and maybe still do find deep meaning in the work they do. I think the challenge is one of the things that it's… I encourage people to do is to, to try. They have. You have to focus on yourself and take care of yourself more, you know, and that's. I know everybody gets busy when we get running in a hundred directions. And part of that burnout is is making sure we're intentional about investing in ourselves. Right. So in a very actionable way, there's something that, well, first of all, just stepping back and reflecting on what could that be driving awareness around that. And then from an actionable standpoint, I found that it's really helpful for people to, to look for things that maybe they did in their life, maybe more regularly in the past that renewed them or gave helped burn off stress or, you know, help them just feel more engaged in life. Right. So it could be working out or yoga, being outdoors, reading, you know, crocheting, volunteering at animal shelter. I mean, place of worship, softball league, whatever. Whatever it is in their personal life, often those things kind of drop off the table because we get so busy and so focused. Right. So really that's the key, I think, is as a leader then in that. In an organization or even as whether you have a leadership title or not, something you'll hear me say a lot, just encourage each other to say, hey, you know what. What's something that renews you or it really energizes you, and to give. Make sure we're being intentional about creating those. That space. I know it's not easy. I'm not saying it is at all. But trying to restart things that we used to do that really gave us really kept our spirits going and renewed us. So. And in some time off. Right. That's just. That's a critical part of it as well, that getting the space to even do that for some of you are like, why don't you. I don't even have time to even think or breathe, you know, so.

Heather Grimshaw: That's such a good point. And I really appreciate the comment about burnout. I think that is something that, especially within this realm, is a huge issue. It's very emotional work. So thank you for commenting on that. It was interesting to read about your first mountain climbing experience in Kentucky. And I was hoping you would talk a little bit about what it was about that experience that led you to much more adventurous hikes and a lot more emphasis in that area.

Manley Feinberg: Yeah. I had been working at UPS in college, and my college. My supervisor encouraged me to come camping with them. And so I finally go camping, and it was really my first outdoor experience. I had not been in the outdoors a lot growing up some, but not in this way.

And so we camped the next morning. I was like, well, what do we do? We're not sitting around the campfire, you know. And so they guys, well, let's. We come down here and was kind of scrambled, basically go climbing. But it was really. We weren't using ropes. It was more just bouldering is what we would call it, technically small rocks where we would just scramble and like you do when you're a kid, basically a playground for big kids and little kids. And so I followed everybody along and we went through like, what we would call a circuit. We just, you know, let's go up this one. Then we kind of come down here and little corridor and, you know, just really having fun. And there Was this one last boulder that was about maybe 10ft tall, that there was only one gentleman, another supervisor, our group. He was the best climber of the group and he was able to. The only one who could climb up this boulder. And then they said, give it a try. You seem to have a real knack for this. And so I got up, I got about halfway up and I felt frozen up and I didn't know which way to move. And Steve, this other supervisor really encouraged me and kind of pointed my way. So I get to the top of this little boulder. It might as well have been Mount Everest. I felt so energized and plugged into the source of just everything. I just felt just incredibly alive. Which I think, by the way, I'm very much an advocate for people to get outside more and you don't have to go climbing or do anything wild or whatever.

But I felt this really just natural, energized and excitement from, from being there and just felt good to be outside. And the nature and we're really. That's hardwired into us as human beings.

I think a lot of people, I've had people, even though that's not a direct point or content that I do in my keynotes that people will get it. They're like, wow, you know, this has encouraged me to do mainly is I used to hike or I used to walk or in our park, I used to fish or I used to garden in my backyard or you know, it doesn't have to be like this exotic destination or some really wild activity. But that feeling is what drove me to start doing it more and more. And then after, I think two weeks later, I went out again with the same group and it was a bigger wall. I climbed up about 20ft and I realized like, I don't, I can't. I wanted to go higher, but I knew that I shouldn't. And for safety wise. So that's something actually ironically that people about climbing, people don't really understand is most climbers are not really. They don't want to be adrenalized and scared. It's not really about thrill-seeking in that way, is it thrilling? Yes. But it's. We don't want to be like adrenalized. Right. Freaking out that and scared in that way. It's not, it's not really about that. It's actually quite slow and methodical for, for adventure sports. It's pretty, you know, compared to skiing or race cars and things like that. So that's what drove me to do it. More and more. And then I also, I was really quickly I started seeing. Once I started after that second experience, my buddy said, you got to get a rope and learn how to use. You know, you can do this safely, but you need some equipment. So I get some equipment thanks to my mother. And then I started going out more. But the next thing I noticed is how I would go climbing with strangers.

And once we got our safety protocols established, there was a really deep connection and we could form basically form teams on the fly and really be supportive of each other. And the amount of encouragement with each other and the amount of trust was something I started really. That's something that we might talk about later. More that. That really started impacting me in other areas of my life. Realizing like, well, how is that that can do that in the world of climbing? And then yet at work in workplace as an example, sometimes we struggle. Right. To make those connections and build those relationships. So that, that eventually became a core part of my work with, especially with Syrano people and professionals.

Heather Grimshaw: That's helpful. And I honestly, I'm surprised to hear you say it's not about thrill seeking because I would assume that it was.

Manley Feinberg: One other thing I should mention too real quick is it looks, I know it looks insanely dangerous and it's actually statistically safer than driving a car. And those statistics are before text messaging. The reason I'm aware of those statistics, they come from the life insurance world. So life insurance underwriters know very well what the real risks are to activities that you do. So if you've ever done apply for life insurance, they want to know, do you go scuba diving? Do you ride a bicycle on a road? Which by the way, is way more dangerous than rock climbing. And it seems very. When we all ride, had ridden a bike on a road. But road cycling in particular, as an example, is something that we just like driving. We're like, oh, we do it, we see people do it. But it's actually has a lot of risk. Yeah. So that's. That's something that. Because that sort of can be a barrier for some people see what I do and they're like, well that's stupid. Why would you do that? And so it's. It's very intentional. And. And actually I do a lot of work in the safety world around being intentional about your work, you know, Anyway, so that's something I think it's important for people to understand just Like I want to open their hearts and their heads to the lessons and experiences so they can see some content and be inspired by some of my experiences.

Heather Grimshaw: I like that. Opening hearts and heads. So I saw, speaking of, I saw a reference to the fact that you reverse engineer your climbing adventures and I'm hoping that you'll talk a little bit more about that, a few things that you've learned in that process and whether you encourage business leaders to take that type of an approach.

Manley Feinberg: Yeah, you know, there's one of the things that at first it was probably the first vertical lesson that I discovered and really started reapplying in the business world, and it was one of these directly reverse engineered is that I realized I had a lot more focus and clarity and I would, was there was an. The environment was naturally set up to build momentum behind a single initiative. In other words, a climb. Right. So, um, this is probably the, you know, probably this first or second vertical lesson we'll cover in the keynote. It's called declare your current climb. And this is something I'll say to your audience right now that our audience, whatever that I think people, most people think I'm crazy when I say this, but climbing mountains is actually easier than what your listeners are dealing with. And the reason I know that is the question is, well, are you trying to climb one mountain in your life or are you trying to climb multiple mountains? Do you what Especially personal and professional lives combined. Right. And just professional life alone. Most everybody says, oh my gosh, I've got, we got this little project going on. I got this, you know, my regular work, operational work, I've got it too. I've got this new initiative trying to improve this and this come down the pipe, you know, new regulation, we don't know how this is going to land. So there's so many things and what I've noticed is that when we go climbing, we only have one. We pick one mountain or one wall and we pick one single route. And then we're like, okay, that's how we're going to do this. And then we just focus on moving that. And if it's a multi-day climb where every day we're waking up and just moving up this one initiative. And so some people get to about this point and they're like, oh, I know what you're going to say, you know, have a goal, right? It's not really about that actually. It's the question is what initiative in your life would help you build. If you built momentum around it, it would potentially impact everything, right. So it's something that. Something's usually high leverage. It could be just personal, actually. Like maybe you have a health thing or you're not feeling great, or you need to, you know, fix something at home or relationship at home or there is a project at work. Sometimes it's obvious, like, oh, yeah, we've got this new. We're trying to update the new. I've got to move this forward every day. And then the way I want people to encourage people to frame this is to think of it as a declaration of momentum, to say this single initiative. I'm going to move forward every single day. This is my current climb. I'm going to spend 5, 10, 20 minutes a day. Just a few minutes every day will make a huge difference. And you actually start to feel momentum, which is really just an emotional sensation of like, okay, either I feel like I'm drowning, barely keep my head above water, or no, I feel like I'm getting somewhere every day. And you would be amazed at how much, especially if you know that's an important initiative and you do it first as early as possible during the day before you get knocked off into the chaos of life, that once you start filling that progress in that one little project or initiative, it will start to bleed into everything else and you'll just, you'll, you'll feel the momentum of it.

And it's incredibly powerful lesson. It's one of them, definitely one of the most powerful and most popular ones that I share with people. That's something I would just encourage people to try.

It's, it's. If you write, you need to write it down because it's easy to. You know, there's so many things in our lives. Everything, everybody and everyone is trying to. Every device, every app is in the business of getting our attention. Right. And distracting us. So we have to be intentional about keeping things in our face so we see it. I say visibility drives velocity. If we're not, if we don't know what that current climb is like, we might know right now somebody's listening to us going, oh, I know exactly what that is. If you don't write down, put on a post it note, put on a calendar event or whatever, tools, technical and old school tools to keep it in your face, you're probably gonna lose momentum on it.

Heather Grimshaw: That's such a great point. Yeah, I think. And there are so many different things vying for our attention these days, both personally as well as professionally. So I really like the idea of writing it down and focusing in on that one piece, that current climb, as you say. Okay, so shifting or turning to the time that you spent as a senior leader at Build a Bear, I'm hoping that you will share a few of the most important strategies that help the company go from 42 stores to 425 stores, if I'm getting that right worldwide. It'd be interesting to hear what the timeframe was for that growth and how those strategies can be used for a program or team growth within that disability and absence management space.

Manley Feinberg: Yeah, great question. So that, that period of growth that I experienced, I kind of called it our golden years at Build a Bear. And it was across about seven years where we had all that growth, which is, you know, pretty… I mean any. Most people listening to this are going to go, ooh, that's, you know, that's a lot of growth in a relatively short amount of time. Right. To build a global brand. And that it. The really. The one thing that the really. And people want to know. This is a good. I'm glad we're talking about Build a Bear for a moment, everybody. That's one of the questions people have inherent questions about climbing and like how do you live on the mountain for five days or nine days straight and what's that look like? And, and there's obvious questions around that. Another question I always get is how did what made Build a Bear special? And it's the answer to your question too. Same answer. And it's a single word answer. It's about the experience we created. If any. Anybody listening this. If you've been to Build a bear and you've experienced it, it's. You didn't go to get a commodity teddy bear.

You can get that anywhere Amazon or you could get it a bunch of teddy bears on Amazon for cheaper than a single bear, probably Build a Bear. But what we earned, what we realized is that before I even got there actually that, you know, the founder of the company Maxine realized that when you create a meaningful experience for people, they come back.

And so that was really of all our values and all of our focus internally for our, for our, you know, we got, we were Fortune 100 best companies to work for for four years in a row while I was there and another seven after I left. That's was the same. The answer. That question is the same answer to what made people want to show up and work really hard and in a crazy environment where it was really fast growth is that we really, we were relentlessly focused on the human.

I used to call it the customer Experience or the employee experience. But recently I started just calling it the human experience. Right? How do we engage people and what kind of experience are we creating for people and when we serve them? And it doesn't matter what your title is, it doesn't matter. It's more just about how you show up. And so we were obsessive about that and in ways you wouldn't expect it. Right. So if that's important to you and that's creating a meaningful experience for people. And my understanding of people in hr, disability absence managers and people I've worked with in that space is they're dedicated to work and it is meaningful. And so I would encourage people to just double down on that. It's like, it seems like such a simple strategy. Like, well, how did that really help you guys? And it was that we were so obsessed about the guest experience is what we call it actually for our people coming to our stores, as an example. So a couple quick examples. We like when we built out our stores, we always coded. We built our bathrooms to public access code, which is in some places, like New York City was. They were. So you can't do that here. And so we do. We will. We are going to. That's, that's how we roll. So we insisted on that because we wanted it to be.

We felt like if someone, if they came in our home, they're our guests, right? So would, would you. Can we use your restroom? Of course. And what if they don't buy anything? Who cares? It's, we want to be good humans, right, and create experience. That's. That's helpful. And so same with phones, which is, back then we had, you know, landlines, we used a lot. And long distance phone calls, right? People, if someone came in the store and asked to use our phone, the answer was always yes.

And then I remember being in manager training when I was first hired and somebody said, well, what if it's a long distance phone call? And our owner of the company had always said, well, you know what? We get a great long distance rate. Who cares? Let them dial away and let them talk for, you know, if they're on the phone now, if they come back every day and they're on the phone for three, you can address an anomaly right at a one off. But I think we get in our minds, you're like, well, what is this? And especially, I know there's lots of regulations and so many, so much that you do have to really dance and navigate through in this, in this world that your listeners are, you know, entrenched in. But I do think there's also lots of capacity for to constantly be asking, you know, how does this, how does this affect the impact, impact the experience that people we serve, you know, on both sides, right? On the. Whether it's HR professionals or leaders in the organization or the people who are actually needing to take time off or work through some challenges in their life. So.

And the more we can make that experience meaningful and easy and know that we care. Right? That's the other thing too. That's. The people in your world that I've engaged with have always been, you know, the good ones, the great ones. You can always tell, like, they care and that, that's what, you know, that's the big key between making something. That's. Because some of this stuff is just inherently, there's going to be forms you have to fill out. There's certain processes and hoops we have to jump through. Right. And how irritating that is is directly correlated to how much they know you care about them in the process and just are upfront about it, like, hey, this is going to. But I've. This is going to be challenging. Some of this is not fun, but this is what we were required to do. But I got you. I'm going to help you figure this out. You know, I'm your advocate. I'm here to help you so that you can get back on your feet, so you can be with your loved one right now or newborn, whatever that situation is for them. So just relentlessly focus on the experience. And there's, there's a bunch of other examples I could give, but it's just that was the lens through which it was our mindset, that was the lens through which we saw everything first and foremost. And then of course, all the other questions you have to answer, okay, what about regulations and efficiency and practicality, all that stuff. But we always would come back to that experience. How does this affect the experience that we're providing for the person? So, and that was also, you know, like I said at our headquarters and our stores, that's really why people, we knew it was meaningful work and people they knew we cared. It was sort of a family feel to everything we did.

Heather Grimshaw: So I love that. And actually it is interesting at dmec, frequently people will talk about the familial feel to the association and also to that work. So I think the fact that you're talking about customizing that experience and really that human centric or people first approach certainly will resonate the next question that I have for you is really within that realm, but not just limited to build a bear, which you have talked a little bit about here as well, which is helpful. And the question really is, are there certain qualities in leaders that you think make or break their success and if so, are you willing to share one or two of them?

Manley Feinberg: Yeah, that's. And it directly relates to what, you know, perfect question to follow up that we just talked about. It's the really, the thing that I've seen more and it's not just a build a bear, but I've worked at every industry under the sun now. And whether it's blue collar, you know, construction people in the CEO suite, C suite or whatever, and everything in between when, when people know you care and then you're vulnerable and you admit that you don't know it all every time.

You know, if, if it's, you know, if that's the case, it builds trust and connection in a way that nothing else work does. You know, it's, there's really no substitute for that. And you know, I've had some, you know, I've heard or had some people say, well, if I show them that I don't know or I, you know, that, that I care too much, that I'm too soft, you know, they're afraid they're going to not be respected or followed. Which is not, not true. It's just a myth. It's just is. And I've actually had some really good conversations with people in the military leadership as well. Right. That's an environment where that, like that and blue-collar leadership is an example where people, you might think, well okay, you know, in that environment, especially like let's say military, where there's an authority like you go do what I tell you to do right now. And really that the great leaders in those worlds actually they know that that's. They, they say the same thing, say mainly you're absolutely right. It's about them knowing you how much you care. And are they hardcore and very respected? Of course. And assertive? Yes, absolutely. But so you can do both. You can. And I've heard some, I've had some of the most hardcore like at first glance being like, wow, this, this person, man or woman, is like they're real deal, you know what? I'm mess with them, right? This Persona that's like tough and intense but huge hearts, right? And they're people. When your people know you care, they will run through a brick wall for you. And I think part of that too is giving them permission to, to Fail or at least fall. I make a distinction in climbing, like between falling and failing. Falling is falling, right? We fall actually by the way we climb, we expect to fall. So we set up systems to allow us to fall safely. And that's the same thing I've tried to do in the world, in business world, is creating an environment where people know that there's trust and there's encouragement and that the person cares for them and that if they screw something up, they can, you know, this is a cultural thing, right? They know they can raise their hand and say, hey, I own this, I actually screwed this up. And then people will marshal behind you. Hopefully. That depends on the culture. So not every organization is like that. But I encourage people just to show up the way they want the culture to be. As far as like their microservices, I call it a microculture. Like even on your team or in your environment or how you interact with people, still, if you're not in an ideal environment culturally that you don't, maybe you don't totally agree with all of it, you can still be the human that you're meant to be and you want to be when you interact and.

Heather Grimshaw: Show up for people, that's very powerful. And I like the differentiation between falling and failing and falling safely and learning how to do that. One of the other things that I was really intrigued about, I did a little digging on your website, is the reference to the exponential difference between, between employees having a 99% commitment versus a 100% commitment.

So I'm hoping you'll talk a little bit about that. And then also if you think that the 1% that holds people back is fear, and if so, how can leaders address that? So it's kind of a two question in one.

Manley Feinberg: Yeah, that's a great question. So yeah, this is, was a probably the most earth shattering insight I've ever had in my whole life. And, and I don't want to tell the actual story itself because part of the keynote for the conference, it's really powerful. But essentially I had a moment on the side of a mountain where my partner was dying in my arms with my son. And I, and my son was fine, but our third person in the party of three was dying. And if you asked me when that situation was 100% fully committed to saving the man's life, I would have said yes. But the truth is there was a crucible moment that happened in a conversation that shifted me. But before that I was not 100% in. I didn't realize that. I think the main thing I want people to really kind of see here is that I think often we might think we're fully committed to something because we show up every day or we're doing the work. But then if we can. It kind of links back to our first question we talked about, about realizing if, okay, I'm a little burned out, like getting some awareness around, okay, I'm kind of exhausted or I'm burned out or I need a break, I need to focus on myself and kind of renew my spirit and renew my commitment. I think that's the first key is just realizing it because I think a lot of times we just keep showing up and doing what we're doing and grinding, grinding through the work.

Right. So the other thing is that just to realize, I think it might help at this moment to, for people know that I think if you know the feeling right in life when you say, I'm all in, this is going to happen, I'm going to make this happen, I'm going to. I'm fully committed to this. And the difference in that and being pretty much in is, is it's not just a little difference. It's not 1% is the main thing I say the difference between 99% commitment and 100% commitment is not 1%. It's exponential the difference in the impact of that. Right. Because when you're fully in, it impacts everything and impacts how you show up and impacts the people you work with and that you serve as well. So that's, that's really key, first of all. And then I love your question about that. I thought about that too with the. Is the 1% fear. I think it certainly is in many cases. Right. And fear of messing up or like bringing. Having the courage to. This is another conversation we'll probably have in the keynote is, you know, having the courage to show up and ask questions and challenge in a constructive way that's positive. But, you know, or bring a little ideas to the table, like maybe little ways you can improve things. Like a lot of times people I think, well, they've been doing a long time or they're new the job or anywhere in between, though, maybe sitting in a meeting or sitting there at their desk and go, ah, you know what?

I wonder if we did something and did this a little differently. And then I knew I used to have ideas like that I would like at Build a Bear, I would go to my boss's door and go to knock on the door and then he'd say, what? Knock on the door and he Said, what's going on? I'm going to get some coffee. You want anything for the break room? And I had an idea when I was coming to the door, or you're in the meeting, right? You want to raise your hand, but realizing that having the courage to just put it out there and not letting those ideas die in your head can really make a difference. And that in itself is a commitment, right? To say, okay, I'm going to. This is uncomfortable. I'm not really 100% confident this will work. It's not about. I think we get confused, too. People say, well, I got to be. When I'm confident this would work, or this is when I'm confident this is a good idea, then I'll share it. And so one of the opening stories I'll share in my keynote is about my mother was my hero and my whole life growing up. And I had a crazy idea I want to try in high school, and she encouraged me to do it. And just what I learned from it is that she encouraged me not to let the idea die in my head.

I think that's a challenge, is that sometimes that extra percent of commitment is just some emotional thing in her head, like, oh, I don't know, like you said, like fear. Right. But she, she would encourage me to just find someone, one person to share it with. You don't have to share with everyone, right? So that's important, too, to know. Like, not every idea, do you want to raise your hand in front of the whole company? Let me run this by you. Right. But somewhere between that and letting it. Not ever mentioning it. I think most ideas never make it past our mouth, right? Finding a person you trust in a safe space and say, hey, what do you think if we did this? And help me just explore this. And that's just so key. And building commitment. And also. And it's kind of improvement and innovation and not like going to the moon innovation, but just little simple improvements. And it takes a lot of courage.

Right. And commitment to do that.

Heather Grimshaw: Oftentimes people who have those ideas and are willing to share them, those are the. It's pure gold and frequently can be what helps organizations grow and what enhances an experience for somebody going through an emotional time and needing help. So my last question for you today is, how do you help people sitting in your presentations maintain that enthusiasm and motivation to, as you say, put people on the summit? So the first question that I have for you is, what quote, unquote, and I'm using air quotes here, putting someone on the Summit looks like. And then how do you maintain that once you get back to the office? And as you mentioned earlier, you have all these different things competing for your attention.

Manley Feinberg: Yeah. So it ties into another vertical lesson that we'll cover in the keynote called get on Belay. And that's about the word belay describes the mechanism by which we hold the rope for each other. So when we're climbing, we're literally holding each other's lives in our hands. But it's a very simple mechanism in the exact same way, being intentional about the relationships we build in our professional lives and our personal lives. It's really simple stuff, Right. We have these amazing tools in our pockets to connect with people and engage them. But I think the challenge is, as you mentioned, we're so distracted and so busy that one of the cruxes of it is being intentional about building those relationships. Right. And so one of the questions, when we cover the vertical lesson around getting on Belay, we'll do an exercise and I ask people, you know, who do you need support from? Who do you need to hold the road for you a belay today? Who's the first person that pops in your mind? And who's someone that pops in your mind that might need you as a support person?

Right. And then the next key is actually doing it. Get to just make a meaningful, intentional, outbound connection to that person. And hopefully that would be in person, but not always, right.

Sometimes it's via video or, or, you know, a phone call or an email or a text message and to let them know, I'm thinking of you. I got, I got you. How are you doing? You know, checking in and just encouraging, really. That's the bottom line. The ultimate outcome there is. You want to remind people that you're thinking of them, you're in their life. And it's just, it's just such a simple little thing, but it makes a huge difference. And if, if every, you know, if everyone in the room could just be a little more intentional about that and they're, you know, at work as an example and at home and being.

Not just because people get well. I know what you mean, man. I'm responding to people all day, you know, nonstop. And it's not responding to inbound, voicemail, email and all that. This is coming from a different place. And so that requires, if we back up a minute in the conversation, we gotta, we gotta create a space in our day where we can have that clarity to go, okay, who is the person today?

Who do I need today? And who am I going to reach out to today? And you're going to actually reach out to both of them, but who's the person that might need me? So then they're basically setting up the belay and the connection, building the connection and that support to help put them on the summit, right? So whatever they might be dealing with or whatever they're struggling with and that can turn into, if it's a deeper relationship, perhaps it's a full on mentoring situation. And again, I know I've said it several times, but I want to really emphasize it really doesn't matter what your title is or your role, your responsibility, it's about creating a meaningful human experience, right. And supporting each other's. So that's something that people, you know, a lot of times will say, well, I'm, you know, I'm not the boss. I don't, you know, I can't, it doesn't matter. I mean, we've all had most everybody I bet listen to this, or in the room with us at the conference have had or been aware, been around a bad leader, right? Bad coach of whatever their role was and then who had the title, but maybe weren't really constructive or powerful and influential in the way they went about trying to encourage people.

And likewise, I think most people probably have experienced someone who changed their life or impacted them, a co worker or someone. And you know, that really wasn't a person of authority necessarily or their boss necessarily. It doesn't matter. So I just want to get people to knock that excuse out and go, no, how I show up matters, right? People are watching and you just, you probably, well, first of all, people don't, probably don't even realize how much impact you're already having, right. With the people you serve and you support and then just being more intentional about it and also trying to just, again, thinking about this as a little microculture, I'm going to show up the way I want to, to create this specific type of human experience I want to create every day.

And then acknowledging people, right? So acknowledging for good work or the challenge they may be struggling with or whatever, that's another way we can constantly put them on the summit, give them credit for, you know, you don't be surprised at how, I mean, people wouldn't who are listening to this go, yeah, I know the type. There's some people, some people in organizations, some leaders are not that just can't really give credit when credit's due, right? And just sort of want to be the superstar and you know, that's another one. Humility is an inherent trait. I think we can all just encourage each other and ourselves to shine the light on other people, keep shining light on other people. Because a lot of people don't even see it, right? They don't even know it themselves. That's what great leaders do, is they see something in you that you don't even see in yourself, right? And then they find a way to shine the light on it and keep shining the light on it until it's so bright they can't ignore it. And then they realize, and then they become empowered and then they reach their summit, whatever that might be, right? Promotion, make it through the project, make it through their health challenge, whatever that situation is the person's struggling with.

Heather Grimshaw: You've hit on so many different pieces here that will really resonate with our listeners today, as well as the attendees at the compliance conference, who, as you've noted throughout the conversation, are held to some very intense legal requirements, regulations, laws, and they are also so focused on encouraging that human interaction and ensuring that the people who really need their help feel cared for. And so one of the things that I really appreciate you saying is that comment about, I've got you, I'm here for you and I'm going to support you. So I think more people will be very eager to hear you talk about all of these different concepts during the conference. And we so appreciate you taking the time to give us a sneak peek today. Thank you.

Manley Feinberg: Thanks, Heather. Thanks for having me on. And I appreciate anybody who's willing to listen to this and show up at the conference and further your own. That's one thing about the conference too, is if you're considering coming or not, you're not sure. Just who else better knows what you're dealing with in the world than the people in that room, right? So do that for yourself, maybe even if you have to pay out of pocket, I mean, most people, probably the organization is going to cover it, but you know, it's worth it, right? Investing in that, those relationships and those people to give you that belay, right. That support you need to be the professional that you want to be every day is so key. And so I just appreciate everybody, whatever they have, whatever hoops are having to jump through to make sure they can make it to the conference with us is I just, I totally believe in that and that community and your all community and supporting each other in that way.