How arts and culture organizations can use advocacy to drive awareness for your cause and brand, even when you’re not a global, visitor-based institution.

The San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance is known as an international nonprofit conservation organization with an annual budget over $400 million and thousands of staff and employees. They have two local front doors — the San Diego Zoo and the Safari Park — in addition several eco-regional “hubs” around the world.

The global work of San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance is helping the entire ecosystem, and this conversation with immediate past Board Chair Javade Chaudhri exemplifies that having a business mindset does not fly in the face of the mission driven work.

In fact, the data show that nonprofits of all sizes that advocate outperform their peers, and you do not have to be a $400M+ organization to engage in advocacy — it can happen small and locally. Chaudhri is candid about what separates organizations doing that well—having a business mindset being able to execute on that—versus those in his mind who aren’t.

We also talk about a few topics that have become near and dear to my heart in recent years, including company culture and staff compensation (as well as the need to pay staff competitively).

I am so grateful for Javade Chaudhri and him generously sharing his time, wisdom, and expertise. Enjoy his take on how the San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance and all kinds of arts and culture organizations can run it like a business, and get your free resource to help you start or uplevel your own advocacy work: the Advocacy Cheat Sheet.

Hi, everyone.

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Today I am excited to bring you

something special that I have not

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done ever before on this podcast.

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And this is new and special in two ways,

actually, now that I think about it.

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So if you have followed Any of the

promotion for this season, maybe you

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have, maybe you haven't, but if you've

seen it or heard it, you may remember

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that throughout this season, I am

speaking with a few people who really

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know the business world quite well.

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And that is to say some board members.

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So this is the first of those

conversations I'm really

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excited to share with you.

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The second way this episode is special

is that we get to learn today from

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someone who knows very well not just the

business side of things or business world

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in general, but specifically knows the

business of visitor based institutions.

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Some people say exhibit based

institutions, and that encompasses a

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lot of arts and cultural organizations

that are not performance based.

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So that means our museums,

botanical gardens, zoos,

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aquariums, you get the idea.

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My guest is Javade Chaudhri, who I will

fully and properly introduce in a moment.

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But to give some quick context here.

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When we recorded this conversation,

he was coming to the end of his term

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as board chair of the San Diego Zoo.

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So let me tell you about the organization

first a little bit as we get going here.

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The full and official name is

San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance,

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and that's important because

they have two front doors.

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The San Diego Zoo, as I have been

referring to the organization, but

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also the San Diego Zoo Safari Park.

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And I am just wondering who listening

to this right now has ever been to

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either of those locations, either

the San Diego Zoo, maybe as a kid

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or on vacation growing up, or taking

your own family there as an adult.

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I know I went, I don't know, maybe

a handful of years ago now, and I

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had known of the reputation and yet

it still just totally blew me away.

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And I remember the zoo being, aside

from You know, the animals and the

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things that we normally think of

when visiting a zoo, I remember just

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the grounds being very beautiful.

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They had just these very lush gardens,

great landscaping, in addition to

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these wonderful habitats and care for

the animals that was just so obvious.

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Yes, they have a world famous zoo,

is the point I'm trying to make.

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They also have the Safari Park,

their other front door, which

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you'll hear us talk about a little.

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And just as important to those two

very public facing, customer facing

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entities, is that they also invest

a lot into conservation efforts.

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not only here in the U.

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S., but around the globe as well.

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And we will definitely talk about

that in our conversation today.

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So to put some numbers to all of

this so that you can understand the

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size and scale of the San Diego Zoo

Wildlife Alliance as an international

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nonprofit conservation organization,

their annual budget is over 400

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million according to their tax returns.

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They have thousands of staff and employees

and Yes, they are primarily based in San

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Diego, but they do work around the world.

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They have eight eco regional hubs, as

they call them, around the globe, and

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that includes everything from the African

forest, African savanna, the Amazon

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region, Amazonia in South America, Asia,

Australian forest, even the oceans.

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Think Arctic Ocean, Pacific Ocean,

and even regions here in the U.

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S.

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where we have endangered

species here as well.

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The San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance

integrates wildlife health and care,

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science and education to develop

sustainable conservation solutions.

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And I would say this work is squarely in

the category of culture in a broad sense.

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And in our conversation today, we

cover a lot of different things.

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So just to give you the bullet points

highlights as we're getting going here.

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We talk about the global work of the

San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance, what

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it means to help the entire ecosystem,

and how they see their role in that.

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What does it look like to be economically

minded in addition to environmentally

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minded and conservation minded, and how

having a business mindset does not fly

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in the face of their mission driven work.

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And Javade had great thoughts on that.

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He is pretty candid, I have to say,

about what separates organizations

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doing that well, meaning having a

business mindset and being able to

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execute on that, versus those who in

his mind are not executing as well.

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So we'll hit that for sure.

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We also talk about a few topics

that have become near and dear

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to my heart in recent years.

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The first is company culture, including

Including, you guys are going to

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love this, staff compensation.

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And every arts administrator listening,

no matter where you work, whether you

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are at a visitor based, exhibit based

institution or at a performing arts

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organization, you guys really are

going to love this because he talks

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about the need to pay competitively.

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So you heard it here from a board

chair who really believes in this.

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We also talk about another topic

that I learned a lot about as I was

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researching my book, and that is advocacy.

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It is more than lobbying.

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Sometimes people get a little confused.

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I was for a long time on

the definition of advocacy.

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So think beyond lobbying and trying

to convince Congress to do something.

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That's part of it.

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But he really frames it as

part of an education process.

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So you'll hear us explain more about that.

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And I even have a free download for

you on this exact topic, the Arts

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and Culture Advocacy Cheat Sheet.

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I'll say more about it later, but

here's what you need to know right now.

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You do not, I repeat, do

not have to be a 400 million

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organization to engage in advocacy.

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And the data show, you all know

I love the data, the data show

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that non profits of all sizes that

advocate, outperform their peers.

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I would say that probably part of why

the San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance has

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been able to grow so much over the years

is because this advocacy work has been

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central to what they do so consistently.

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This free download Covers what's legal

and what's not legal for nonprofits,

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so you have the do's and don'ts there.

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It gives you all the tips beyond just

the rules you need to know, and even

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some ideas of where to start when you're

not a giant global institution, but an

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organization that believes that you have

a voice and a role to play in speaking

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up for the things that you value.

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So go to aubreybergauer.

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com slash 23, that's 2 3,

number 2 3 for episode 23, to

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get this free, easy resource.

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And last in this episode, we also get

real and discuss some challenges facing

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not just visitor based institutions.

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But all of arts and culture and

specifically to name the challenge

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is looking at new revenue streams

and diversifying the board and staff.

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So as you can see, we covered

a lot of ground together.

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I have to say, I am so excited.

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So grateful for Javad Javade Chaudhri

and him generously sharing his time, his

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wisdom, and his expertise with all of us.

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I can't wait for you to hear his take on

how the San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance

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and all kinds of arts and culture

organizations can run it like a business.

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Let's go.

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I'm Aubrey Bergauer and

welcome to my podcast.

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I'm known in the arts world for

being customer centric, data

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obsessed and for growing revenue.

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The arts are my vehicle to make the

change I want to see in this world,

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like creating places of belonging,

pursuing gender and racial equality.

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Developing high performing

teams and leaders and leveraging

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technology to elevate our work.

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I've been called the Steve

Jobs of classical music at the

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Sheryl Sandberg of the symphony.

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I've held Offstage roles managing

millions of dollars in revenue at

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major institutions and as chief

executive of an orchestra where we

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doubled the size of the audience and

nearly quadrupled the donor base.

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And now I'm here to help

you achieve that same goal.

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Same kind of success in this podcast.

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We are sorting through the data

inside and outside the arts, applying

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those findings to our work, leading

out with our values and bringing in

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some expert voices along the way.

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All to build the vibrant future

we know is possible for our

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institutions and for ourselves as

off stage administrators and leaders.

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This podcast is about

optimizing the business around

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the art, not sacrificing it.

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Again, my guest today is Javade

Chaudhri, an international lawyer born

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in Kenya, now living in Washington, D.

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C., and working around the world and

especially in developing countries.

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He is passionate about education, wildlife

conservation, and the rule of law.

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In addition to his role on the

board of the San Diego Zoo Wildlife

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Alliance, Javade is also on the board

of and active in a number of public

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interest organizations committed to

orderly development of developing

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countries, committed to education,

and committed to equal justice.

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Javade, welcome.

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I'm so glad to be talking with you.

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And I'm delighted to be here.

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So I want to start, just so our audience

knows, we have some listeners who

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work at visitor based institutions,

but a lot of our listeners are

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at performing arts institutions.

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And so I want to start just

with some of your story.

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How did you originally get

involved with the San Diego Zoo?

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How did you get connected?

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What led to you joining the board?

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When was all that?

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You know, walk us through.

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What's through?

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What's the story?

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You

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Javade Chaudhri: know, it's, it's

interesting that in our part of the

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world that we have what, um, and I think

I speak with some degree of knowledge,

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the very best zoo in the whole world.

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So I grew up on what we were pleased

to call the suburbs of Nairobi, Kenya.

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And I had to chase the zebras off my

cricket pitch before we could play.

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Occasionally a lion would come

around and eat an animal right there.

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You know, we were supposed to

be playing, so we moved away.

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So when I came to North America

to go to university, the idea of a

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zoo was, you know, a zoo, really,

because of where I had grown up.

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And I spent many years in Washington,

which has a pretty A pretty good zoo,

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I think it's fair to say, but when I

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realized that the San Diego Zoo was

a very, very unique institution.

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You know, quite apart from the two

front gates, as we call them here in San

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Diego County, which do amazing things,

and I can talk about that in a second.

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It's really the tip of the iceberg,

the vast amount of work that goes on by

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the San Diego Zoo is all over the world

with hundreds of partners that we have

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on the front lines of conservation.

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You know, it's something that I

think isn't always visible to people.

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So when I began to appreciate what

the San Diego Zoo was, I, you know,

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quickly wanted to be part of it.

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So, you know, happily for me, I joined

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or three, and I've been on the board now

for many, many years up through today.

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Wow,

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Aubrey Bergauer: 20 years we're talking.

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So then when did you assume

the role of board chair?

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Javade Chaudhri: Yeah, we have a two

year sort of cycles of board chairs.

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And so, uh, in fact, I'm

coming to a close this month.

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I've been the board chair for the

last two years, and I've been the

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vice chair before that for two

or three years, I guess it was.

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Aubrey Bergauer: Well,

congratulations on Just a really

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wonderful tenure, it sounds like.

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So, let me ask, you started to answer

this question, and I want to drill

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down on this, which is, let's talk more

about the strengths of San Diego Zoo.

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I definitely grew up hearing about it.

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I grew up in Texas, not even California,

and knew of San Diego Zoo as this

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just leading institution, and then

now, as a fellow Californian, have

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been able to get down there before.

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So, I want to hear in your words,

though, like, what makes you

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just particularly proud to be

connected with this organization?

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What does the San Diego Zoo do

particularly well, in your opinion?

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Um,

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Javade Chaudhri: I think I can answer

that in sort of three or four parts.

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One is, if you, as you have done, if

you go to the zoo, You appreciate that

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there is a very thoughtful approach

to how we look after our animals and,

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by the way, our flora, too, because

we're not only just a zoo, but we also

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have an amazing collection of, uh, you

know, plants and orchids and so on.

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And you won't see animals in small

cages as you unfortunately do around

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the world, including in the U.

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S.

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So one is just the thought and

care that our keepers have in

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how they look after the animals.

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The second is if you go out to the

safari park in East County, you realize

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that we have tried to recreate closely

as possible the natural environment

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of the African savannah, the Asian

grasslands, or other ecosystems.

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But as I said, going back to, I think,

the San Diego Zoo, At least I am so

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proud of is, there are things we have

done with the, let me just take one

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example because I could go on forever,

the Norwegian rangelands in Kenya.

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You know, we have several

projects going on there.

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It's way up in the north of Kenya,

not far from the Somali border.

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And we not only are doing amazing

work with various animals, including

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some animal diseases and so on, but

we also look after the communities.

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And you know, I think that's a

very important part of what I

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think we are very thoughtful about.

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You know, it's all very well to come

into an environment and talk to people

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about how important the animals are

and how they are the heritage of the

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whole world, which of course is true.

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But unless you make it worthwhile

for those people, To be

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involved in that conservation

ethic, it's not going to work.

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So in the Northern RA range lands,

we have set up with partners.

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I might add, uh, you know, people

making crafts, which we, you

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and I would buy at the San Diego

Zoo or elsewhere in the world.

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We have hired people to be

rangers and look out for poachers

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and that sort of a thing.

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So.

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We're really helping the entire ecosystem.

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I think in that sense, the San Diego

Zoo has what I would call almost

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a very practical, creative view to

how a good business should be run.

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I'm getting off on the subject, but you

know, I haven't been representing many

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a fortune, 500 company now for 40 years.

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I see companies that don't

really think holistic.

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They don't think about their communities,

the ecosystem they live in, you know,

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that the whole kind of ESG ethic.

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Others that do, and I think

that makes them successful.

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And I think in that sense, the San Diego

Zoo replicates that model really well.

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although we are a non

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Aubrey Bergauer: profit.

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I appreciate everything

you're saying about the zoo.

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It's, it's just a leading institution

for all the reasons you said and more.

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You were already starting to talk

about the business side, and I

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want to continue in this direction.

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Tell me more about your professional life.

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I covered some of these points

in your bio, but in your own

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words, what's your day job?

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Share your background, like what you're

doing when you're not board chair.

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Javade Chaudhri: I'm on six other non

profit boards, you know, trying to do my

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bit for the world, but like most people

growing up in my age, you know, we,

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we were totally fascinated by science.

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So I was a biology,

biochemistry major in college.

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I went on to the school

of environmental studies.

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Because I decided that I, you

know, I could do more outside

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the laboratory than inside.

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And then, then it became clear to me

that many of the great advancements

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being made in the developing world and

the emerging democracies was really

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by putting thoughtful, Comprehensive

projects together, which they do care to

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the interest of local people, appropriate

transfer of technology, a fair sharing

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of the benefits and burdens of whether

it was a mining project and agribusiness

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project or manufacturing project.

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And so, Most of my work over these

years has been a lawyer trying to do

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these kinds of projects in really all

parts of the world so that they, when

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the projects are finished, they are a

fair sharing of the benefits and burdens

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of that particular economic activity.

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You know, that includes obviously looking

after natural resources and so on.

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So that's kind of my, my day job.

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Having said that, what brought me to

San Diego was I came to be the general

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counsel, the chief legal officer

of Gateway, the computer company.

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And I was there for a number of

years until I then became the

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general counsel of Sempra Energy,

and I did that for 10 years.

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Those are two companies that had

the same ethic that I, I believe in.

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That's kind of what I've done,

whether I've been in private practice,

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which, which I am now, or when I

was in house here in San Diego.

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You know, I have found as a

lawyer, I can make a small

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difference by doing things right.

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where people in the old days,

there were the robber barons of old

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who came in and sort of exploited

local people and local resources.

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And so I guess, uh, my, my elevator speech

is I help, you know, developing countries,

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how not to get ripped off by people

like me on the other side of the table.

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I

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Aubrey Bergauer: love that.

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So I have to ask, I'm asking every guest

on the podcast this season, have you

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ever said with all of this, business

experience, said or thought about any of

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your nonprofits, you know, we really need

to run this place more like a business.

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Javade Chaudhri: You know, I

think that's a very good point.

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The evolution, and as you can

tell, I've been here for a

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while with the San Diego Zoo.

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I think, uh, Doug Myers, who was

the chief executive for a long time,

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I think he did a great job over

all those years growing the zoo

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commercially viable, economically sound.

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And as time went on, including with the

enthusiasm of board members, we also

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became what I'd like to think a leading

worldwide conservation organization.

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And I think with, you know, Doug

retiring and now with Paul, we've

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really accelerated that significantly.

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I think, you know, Paul, you

probably know, You know, he ran

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the nature movie series at Disney.

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He has a lot of, you know,

practical economic experience.

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So he's been exactly the right

person at this time in our history,

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building on what, you know,

previously had already been done.

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And I would have to say, I hope none of

my other nonprofit boards are listening.

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Of the four or five I'm involved with,

This is the most economically minded,

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the most thoughtful about the fact of,

you know, what's our P& L look like?

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How do we keep it robust?

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But importantly, and, you know, around

that core economic issue is the penumbra

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of the other factors that makes a business

successful and makes it a valuable part

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of a community, a state, or a country.

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And, and I think the, the zoo is very

mindful of the fact that they are.

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you know, a part of the 20 plus billion

dollar tourism economy of San Diego and

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that they have to play their part in the

greater economic well being of San Diego.

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I think that's something the board feels

very strongly about and that's certainly

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something that Paul and his team have,

have, you know, executed on, I think,

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Aubrey Bergauer: very well.

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I love this so much.

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So run it like a business.

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You're in favor.

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Javade Chaudhri: Absolutely.

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Look, you know, I, I mean, we, we're

trying to do the, you know, good works,

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whether it's conservation, education,

and, you know, a bunch of other things.

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But unless you do it in a sustainable

fashion, where you sort of check all

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the boxes of important values that you

believe in, then I think, you know,

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these things are not going to survive.

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To be candid, I've been part of non

profits that have essentially gone

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out of business because they didn't do

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Aubrey Bergauer: that.

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That's right.

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So, let's talk about some more

of the bright spots connecting

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to this idea of business.

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You touch on this a little

bit, the team there on staff.

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One of the chapters in the

book is company culture.

380

I know you care about company culture,

developing high performing teams.

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Is this something that's particular

to the San Diego Zoo staff?

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You mentioned a little bit compared to

some of the other nonprofits you served.

383

And maybe part two of that

question is what makes that

384

differentiator for this staff?

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What makes a strong culture,

strong, high performing

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Javade Chaudhri: team?

387

Yeah, I think like many good

cultures, they're both sort of the

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top down approach in terms of the

values conveyed by the leadership.

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And at the same time, the passion

of the people at the other end of

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that chain or that ladder who are

actually executing on every day.

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So if I start with that first, you

will not find a more passionate group

392

of people than the folks who look

after the animals and the facilities.

393

They really believe in the mission.

394

They are absolutely, you

know, dedicated to it.

395

So we have, unlike, you know, You

know, perhaps a regular business

396

where people are really only there

for a paycheck and don't really have

397

any abiding commitment to the cause.

398

That's exactly the opposite

at the San Diego Zoo.

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So any person you meet on site

will convey very quickly to you

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how passionate they are about what

they're doing, what their job is.

401

I think that the other end is if

you sort of go up the layers, you

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know, when, when we meet in board

meetings, for example, uh, the team,

403

the leadership team talks a great deal

about being the employer of choice.

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not just in San Diego, but perhaps

in the entire conservation space.

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You are much more savvy about this

than I suspect I am, but that includes

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how you compensate people, the way

you treat them, the way you deal with

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them if they have a, you know, family

emergency or something, and all the other

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things that want to cause you to stay.

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And I think that perspective

It is embraced very well by, by

410

our, our leadership team that

they, they want to make the zoo a

411

place where people want to stay.

412

And indeed, if you, if you look at

the record, there are, you know, I,

413

I see these notices saying so and

so is celebrating his or her 35th

414

year at the, at the institution.

415

And that's not very common,

416

Aubrey Bergauer: is it?

417

Amazing.

418

Okay.

419

You're basically saying all the points

in my chapter, so I really love this.

420

I'm like getting really jazzed over here

because I talk about in this chapter on

421

company culture, what the research says

about every, everything you just said.

422

It's values alignment.

423

Yes, passion for the mission matters

and passion for the work matters,

424

but that alone is not enough.

425

The other things that matter

are also compensation packages.

426

As we know, the arts and non profits

are infamous for, and many in cases,

427

poor compensation, and you're saying the

zoo has really tried to address that.

428

Psychological safety is another

way to put it, like feeling part

429

of the team, all these things.

430

So I just really appreciate how

you've named so many things that

431

the research bears out matter to the

strength of our, of our community.

432

organizations in addition to our

connection to the mission and the

433

day to day work that we're doing.

434

So, amazing.

435

Javade Chaudhri: No, you've

said it much more eloquently.

436

I think that all those points you made

perfectly are captured by what our

437

institution has been, you know, really

trying to do as best as it can and,

438

and I believe successfully, by the way.

439

I want

440

Aubrey Bergauer: to pivot a little

bit to another strength of the

441

organization that you've touched on

a little bit, and that's advocacy.

442

And advocacy, I think, is

such a broad word, broad term.

443

Some people think it means only lobbying.

444

That's not true.

445

It's much wider than that.

446

But can you talk about advocacy and

how it relates to the San Diego Zoo?

447

What are you all doing on that front?

448

How do you define it?

449

I

450

Javade Chaudhri: think

you're exactly right.

451

Having, living in Washington, D.

452

C., I think I can say that many

of us are victim to this idea that

453

advocacy is trying to convince

some congressperson to do X or Y.

454

And I think you're quite right that

that's, That's really a very small

455

piece of the spectrum of what one

should do when you're advocating.

456

I think at one level

it's really education.

457

It's explaining to all your

constituencies, whether by the way the

458

little kids who one day are going to

grow up and be part of the voting public

459

or opinion makers, is to educate people

about the importance of what we do.

460

The fact that we, um, what we do

is not just limited to these two

461

wonderful locations in San Diego.

462

But really having an

impact all over the world.

463

So that's kind of one part

of that education process.

464

The second is, you know, without trying

to get somebody to pass a particular law,

465

it's talking to policy makers, you know,

it's, it's people here in San Diego,

466

it's, it's the zoo, it's the, excuse me,

it's the mayor's office, it's people up

467

in Sacramento, it's people in Washington.

468

About the long term importance of

conservation, and so that's really almost

469

more a, again, an education process

rather than, you know, which I see a

470

great deal of in Washington, which is

somebody just trying to get, you know,

471

something done in the short term that

has a direct, for example, financial

472

benefit to, you know, that community.

473

Politicians district.

474

I think we come in at much

more three dimensional way.

475

You know, if you talk to our management

team, you know, they're often going to

476

major, you know, conservation organization

events around the world to perpetuate

477

that commitment to conservation.

478

And by the way, learn at the same

time, obviously, because these are

479

opportunities for us to get smarter.

480

It's not like we know

481

Aubrey Bergauer: everything.

482

Yeah, I really appreciate

that humility component.

483

So, okay, so follow up question to

that then is, there's research I write

484

about in this chapter on advocacy.

485

It's a later chapter in the book, but the

research comes actually out of your D.

486

C.

487

neck of the woods, comes from Georgetown.

488

Leslie Crutchfield there, her research

found that non profits, across all

489

non profits, so not just cultural

organizations, but across all non

490

profits, those that advocate, whether

on a national level or a local level,

491

but is if advocacy is a part of their

ongoing work, they outperform their peers.

492

And I want to just put you on the spot

and ask you like, clearly you see that

493

as a shining beacon of success at the

San Diego, but compare that to the other

494

nonprofits you serve or even other zoos.

495

When as you look at the landscape across

the country, do you see this play out?

496

Is this true that advocacy organizations

that advocate outperform their peers?

497

Javade Chaudhri: I would agree with you.

498

You know, I, I think again, if one

can be humble about this, I think we

499

could probably do better, but I think

you're absolutely right by actually, I

500

know nonprofits that are just sort of,

you know, minding the store and partly

501

perhaps it's a, it's a budgetary thing.

502

They're just trying to get

through the year with, you

503

know, Meeting payroll and so on.

504

And they don't really look beyond

their immediate environment.

505

And I think in that sense, the

San Diego Zoo is very different.

506

You know, when we go to, as I mentioned,

various international conventions

507

like CITES, we're there both to convey

empirical research, ways in which we do

508

things, learn how other people do things.

509

And I think that visibility

510

Aubrey Bergauer: helps us.

511

Yeah.

512

So interesting.

513

And I appreciate what you said about

just the challenge organizations

514

face of, you know, we're so head

down trying to do all the things and

515

balance the budget and the day to day.

516

And if that makes advocacy a

challenge, cause it requires

517

you to lift your eyes up.

518

It's sometimes longer term planning

envisioning to get results.

519

So I appreciate your

take on the challenge.

520

It is to make advocacy a priority.

521

So speaking of challenges.

522

We have to go there.

523

Not every organization is perfect.

524

The whole book is about

addressing the challenges we

525

face at cultural organizations.

526

So an area of challenge you've

mentioned before is new revenue streams.

527

I'm wondering, can you share

more about your thoughts on this?

528

What makes that a challenge for

the San Diego Zoo or for visitor

529

based institutions on the whole?

530

Javade Chaudhri: Sure.

531

So if you, you know, broadly look at, uh,

Which you can see from our public filings,

532

how our revenue is, you know, works.

533

There are, there are gate receipts, right?

534

People coming to the zoo or the park.

535

And then the money they spend, you

know, buying cuddly toys, t shirts, etc.

536

Then there's all the people who

give, who make contributions

537

because they believe either in a

particular environmental cause.

538

Or more broadly.

539

And then there are some people,

and actually this is my particular

540

hardcore interest, is education.

541

For example, we bring in a whole bunch of

teachers from small towns in the Midwest,

542

and we bring them to San Diego for a week.

543

And we teach them how to go about teaching

wildlife conservation in their schools.

544

We give them the tools, we

give them the expertise.

545

So we have these tranches of contributors.

546

But in addition You know, I think

this is really one thing that

547

the zoo staff is very good at.

548

We have always thought about

other ways to generate revenue.

549

One is just to do what we're doing

now better, but the other is to see if

550

there are ways in which, for example,

we, we've had a project going on

551

called biomimicry, which the idea is.

552

That there is a lot of intellectual

property created at the San

553

Diego Zoo by virtue of some of

the research that we have done.

554

And it could be that some of it

is applicable to some company.

555

It could be that there is a way in

which butterflies flutter, which can

556

give somebody information on how they

might design a particular product.

557

So, in other words, research we're

doing here in San Diego at the Zoo

558

And it's applicability to the great,

you know, vast variety of industry and

559

commerce that that exists out there.

560

I can give you a bunch of other

examples, but that's very much

561

the idea of innovative new ways

in which to generate revenue.

562

Consistent, by the way, with our

fundamental mission is very much

563

part of something that we're

thinking about all the time.

564

Do you

565

Aubrey Bergauer: mind sharing, I'm

just curious, what, as a percentage

566

breakdown, ticket sales or gate sales

versus contributed revenue versus retail?

567

What's, I mean, as those are the three

primary buckets, do you know percentage

568

Javade Chaudhri: wise?

569

I know that we have numbers that

combine attendance with, if you,

570

let's say you come to the zoo, on

average, how much do you spend?

571

And I don't have those numbers off the

top of my head, but the way to think of

572

it is you might buy annual membership.

573

So which means you could come there

10 times or you come there just twice.

574

But when you're there, you have

some meals, you buy some t shirts,

575

you buy some animals, you take

some special tours and so on.

576

So those are broken down by the very smart

business minded people who run the zoo.

577

Our day to day programs.

578

Round numbers, and I could be off on

this, is all of that contributes 60

579

percent and then the 40 percent are

our contributions that we get from

580

individuals and foundations and Fish

and Wildlife might give us a contract

581

like they did to help with reintroducing

birds going extinct in the Hawaiian

582

islands, you know, that kind of a thing.

583

The thing also to keep in mind with

people making contributions and so on

584

is they can vary from year to year.

585

So for example, you know, one year, and

I think this is all in the public arena.

586

We did very well because the Dr.

587

Seuss Foundation gave us a wonderful

grant, which was unusually large,

588

but we don't get those every year.

589

Yeah.

590

Aubrey Bergauer: That's helpful context to

hear all that because it's almost opposite

591

for performing arts organizations.

592

We have, it used to be about

50, 50 contributed versus

593

earned income over the years.

594

That's really shifted.

595

And now it's 40 percent earned

income, 30 percent earned income

596

ticket sales, including season

subscriptions, which would be the

597

equivalent of your memberships.

598

And more and more and more we're having

to rely on fundraising to fill that delta.

599

So is that trend true for you all too?

600

More and more fundraising

needing to happen every year?

601

Well, actually

602

Javade Chaudhri: it's the opposite.

603

I used to be on the board of the La

Jolla Music Society for many years

604

and what you describe, I think for

the symphony, for example, it's

605

true for an organization, although I

haven't seen their numbers recently.

606

You know, we regrettably, we all

recognize that there are fewer

607

people who want to go to opera or

even perhaps the symphony, both.

608

in small cities and big ones.

609

But the great thing with the San Diego

Zoo is the number of people coming

610

to our facilities continues to grow.

611

We are somewhere between five

and six million people annually.

612

Think about that, right?

613

So even though kids come free in

October and there are discounted

614

special arrangements to make sure that

we make it possible, for example, for

615

military families or for people who

want have less in the way of, you know,

616

financial resources to be able to come.

617

A lot of those kinds of programs,

again, consistent with who we are.

618

But nevertheless, the fact is more

and more people come every year.

619

They spend money on

special tours sometimes.

620

Contrary to performing art, musical type

organizations, we continue to have a

621

significant chunk of our revenue come

from people coming to our facilities.

622

Oh, that

623

Aubrey Bergauer: sounds nice.

624

to have greater earned income.

625

That's a holy grail for so many

of us in the performing arts.

626

So, okay, on this topic of people,

though, I want to move to another

627

challenge, people being visitors.

628

You have identified another challenge

as diversity in the audience,

629

diversity in the visitorship,

and that is definitely true for

630

performing arts organizations as well.

631

I guess let me ask first, what

is the typical audience breakdown

632

for the zoo visitor base?

633

Javade Chaudhri: What I can tell you

is the average person coming to the

634

zoo, there are the people who are

in the immediate Southern California

635

area who, like I did for the 15 years

that I was living in La Jolla, we had

636

season tickets, if you will, we had,

you know, we bought the membership for

637

the So then, you know, if you look at

who those people are, they tend to be

638

the mix of what San Diego County is.

639

I think one of the things that the

team has done really well is, we've

640

really focused on military families.

641

And we have recognized that sometimes

they may not have the financial

642

resources, perhaps civilians have.

643

So we've made it a point to

get involved the military.

644

We have special military days.

645

We have free days for them.

646

I think there are a number of efforts

to try to diversify the people who

647

come to the San Diego Zoo, but I don't

have statistics that I can give you.

648

Point two right off the bat.

649

Aubrey Bergauer: Is this a topic

of discussion more broadly among

650

zoos in the country, do you know?

651

It's a huge topic of discussion

in the performing arts, that's

652

why I'm pushing on this.

653

I don't know about

654

Javade Chaudhri: all the zoos, you

know, I think there's a recognition

655

for us at least at the San Diego Zoo.

656

The communities we live in, the diverse

nature of The America of today and

657

I think even more so the America of

tomorrow requires us to see if we can

658

engage all elements of the society.

659

And, you know, one could argue that,

and I know performing arts are doing

660

a good job with this, including the

aforementioned San Diego or the La

661

Jolla Music Society, that in addition

to the classical music, Concerts that

662

they used to traditionally have, they

now also have jazz and dance and so on.

663

You know, if I analogize that to the

San Diego zoo, you know, the great thing

664

about conservation is it affects everybody

wherever you live in, whoever you are.

665

So, in some ways it's easier for

us to, To seek to diversify our

666

programs, but some of that includes,

for example, if you see some of our

667

public service, uh, announcements and

programs, you know, they're in Spanish.

668

Also, in addition to being in English,

some of our leading spokespersons are

669

bilingual, and by the way, you, you

probably know this, but in addition

670

to the six million or so people

who come to visit the facilities.

671

We touch billions of people

through our radio programs.

672

Uh, there are programs that are

piped into hospitals and so on.

673

So our, you know, just, just as I

mentioned with our conservation work

674

around the world, the visibility of the

San Diego Zoo can be seen in hospital

675

wards in Atlanta and all over the country.

676

Aubrey Bergauer: Amazing.

677

Is there talk about You said so well

talking about just making the zoo a

678

place for all different kinds of people

in San Diego, and my question, because I

679

talk about this in the book too, so many

times cultural organizations, we try to

680

solve these issues of diversity through

programming, which is not a bad answer.

681

I just think it's not a complete answer.

682

Where I'm going with this is, I think

it's diversifying the people who

683

are making decisions, diversifying

the staff, diversifying the board.

684

And I'm wondering, is that a

topic of discussion for you all?

685

Javade Chaudhri: Absolutely.

686

Starting with me, I qualify as a person,

third generation East African, you know,

687

diversity, of course, is multifaceted.

688

So we have tried to have organized process

of just like, you know, and I do this

689

kind of work for You know, large for

profit companies, you have sort of a grid

690

of the necessary skills you need on the

board, the necessary kind of diversity,

691

which would be good for the organization.

692

And then we're trying to

see how we fulfill that.

693

So there are, you know, lots of

really interesting people, many of

694

them from right here in San Diego,

but from also around the country, we

695

are very mindful of the fact that.

696

that we need to have both gender

diversity, ethnic diversity,

697

and perhaps above all, different

perspectives and skill sets.

698

It's not a perfect process because

we're a board of only 12 people and

699

you can't necessarily at any given

time meet the exact goals that you

700

have, but I think, I think we do

701

Aubrey Bergauer: pretty well.

702

A board of only 12.

703

Okay, wait, that's so different

than these arts organizations.

704

We've, our boards are massive and

the bigger the institution, some of

705

these boards like back at Seattle

Symphony, Seattle Opera, I think

706

we'd You know, 40 board members, 50.

707

So that's so interesting.

708

Only 12.

709

I didn't see this coming.

710

Javade Chaudhri: I can

speak to that as follows.

711

Um, I have been in boards that are

like you described, very large.

712

And unfortunately what

happens is that there is less

713

accountability and responsibility.

714

And oftentimes the people who come

feel that their main obligation

715

is maybe to write a check.

716

And if when possible show

up at a board meeting.

717

So that's one thing that's very

different at the San Diego Zoo.

718

You know, as chairman, I can tell

you, I would probably spend several

719

hours every week because we have, you

know, we have an audit committee, a

720

governance and nominating committee.

721

There's like 12 different things.

722

Some are pure board committees,

some are board and staff committees.

723

So there's, there's a lot of work

that goes on, but the object, unlike

724

many other non profits with the San

Diego Zoo's board, is that you're

725

really A working board, much like

the board of a Fortune 500 company.

726

Aubrey Bergauer: That

is so interesting to me.

727

Okay, I have to do another episode

where I bring you on and we talk about

728

board governance and board structure

because this really, I so identify and

729

just align with what you're saying.

730

How do we maximize what this

group of people is contributing

731

beyond writing a check?

732

So I really don't know.

733

I really love what you're saying there.

734

Okay, I have to jump back and

underscore one more thing you said.

735

This is, uh, when you're talking about

materials and information in English

736

and in Spanish, that is in the book as

well, that there is research about that

737

of even, it's research that originated

in California, actually, about the

738

Latinx experience and how even when

Hispanics and Latinos speak English,

739

just seeing or hearing something in

their, native language just makes them

740

feel seen and want to engage with the

organization in a more meaningful way.

741

So really just wanted to underscore that

that's amazing you all are doing that.

742

So I could ask you a million more

questions, but we're coming to

743

the end of our time together.

744

So let me ask you this, Javade,

if you could just Just paint the

745

picture and vision a little bit of

the future of the San Diego Zoo.

746

You're coming to the

end of your board term.

747

What does that look like?

748

What would, if you could like send

your best wishes, best vision for the

749

organization, I don't know what that

looks like 10 years from now, 20 years

750

from now, what, what would be your dream?

751

For one

752

Javade Chaudhri: thing, we're on a

great path, you know, which isn't

753

always true for most organizations.

754

But we have, you know, been on a journey

over the last three or four decades, and

755

I think all headed to the right place.

756

And so I think we have to keep it going.

757

Uh, the Safari Park, we're building this

new elephant exhibit, and it's got, you

758

know, water features so that elephants,

as they want to do, like the elephant

759

on my, I'm going to show you my phone.

760

Oh,

761

Aubrey Bergauer: yeah.

762

Oh, my gosh.

763

For everybody who is listening

to this podcast, it's a picture

764

of this beautiful big elephant.

765

Wow.

766

You know,

767

Javade Chaudhri: we have never

sat on our laurels, if you will.

768

We're always trying to

improve the facilities.

769

But the other thing to, you know, finish

off the answer to your question is we are

770

doing wonderful things around the world.

771

We are bringing species back to the

wild that were nearly gone extinct.

772

One particular project, which you may

have heard about is The northern white

773

rhino has effectively gone extinct,

but we have, uh, if you've heard about

774

our frozen zoo, at our frozen zoo, we

have the DNA of thousands of animals,

775

including animals that have gone extinct.

776

And we have been working towards

the science along with some other

777

people in the world, I might add,

to do in a responsible, ethical way.

778

To essentially bring animals

back from being extinct.

779

I hope that if you and I were having

this discussion, even a short time

780

frame in the scheme of things, ten

years from now, we would have continued

781

on the path of playing an important

role in worldwide conservation.

782

Wildlife conservation while educating

a diverse mix of people in the U.

783

S.

784

and beyond who see our facilities

or who watch our movies and videos.

785

This is something one can only do with

partners on the ground in these countries

786

where we are working with wildlife.

787

as well as partners amongst

the other zoos of the country.

788

And a footnote I might add, which you

may be aware of, is we have produced

789

over, for example, 100 southern

white rhinos at the Safari Park.

790

Naturally, we don't keep them all there.

791

We spread them out amongst other zoos.

792

So something that we do very well is we,

we understand and look at the genetic

793

diversity of our collections and of

other collections around the country.

794

And we exchange animals to keep

that rich genetic diversity robust,

795

which is important for the future.

796

All this done in an economically

sensible way, or that's the takeaway.

797

Aubrey Bergauer: Javed, I have to say,

San Diego Zoo is an industry leader for

798

a reason, for many, many reasons, as you

have just so generously shared with us.

799

And I just want to say

thank you for your time.

800

Thank you for your work over more

than two decades now with the

801

organization and just for being

able to share that with us today.

802

It's just really been a

pleasure to have you on.

803

Hey, Offstagers.

804

I hope you enjoyed that conversation

with Javad Chaudhri as much as I did.

805

One of the things I keep thinking about

that the San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance

806

does so well is their advocacy work and

how it's helped them have a global reach.

807

Now every arts organization or

cultural organization does not

808

need to have a global reach.

809

I don't believe that, but every arts

or cultural organization does benefit

810

to do advocacy work of some kind, even

in the smallest, most attainable ways.

811

And as I mentioned in this

episode, this is research based.

812

The data show that non profits

that advocate Outperform the

813

ones that don't, hands down.

814

This is a newer area for me that I've

been really excited by because there

815

in my mind is so much opportunity here.

816

To be clear, by outperform, I mean

organizations that have advocacy

817

as some part of their work.

818

Do things like raise more money

and serve more people and have more

819

people engaged in and with our work.

820

So seriously, like so

much opportunity here.

821

I explain why all this is in my

book, but what I want to focus

822

on now and here is that advocacy

does not have to be intimidating.

823

For me, it was an intimidating word, an

intimidating thing for a really long time.

824

And I think that's because I

didn't fully understand it.

825

And I thought it meant I had to be

paying visits to my elected officials or.

826

Shaking hands with people I don't know

or and I'm comfortable with or something.

827

I don't know.

828

It just I didn't I didn't really

understand and Now I've done the research

829

for you and have learned more and I

want to share it with you So you do

830

not have to be in the dark like I was

I made the arts and culture advocacy

831

cheat sheet Which has tips and all the

rules you need to know on advocacy.

832

It is available for you now

on my website Go to www.

833

aubreybergauer.

834

com slash 23.

835

That's two three for this episode

number, episode 23 right now and get it.

836

My goal and hope here is that just

reading it down will give you a quick

837

understanding plus some very easy ideas

that you can keep in your brain for things

838

that you or your organization can do.

839

So hear me say easy is the key word here.

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And these are things that.

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Don't necessarily take a lot of time or

money, but start to help you really reap

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the benefits the research shows are there.

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It also covers what's legal

and what's not for nonprofits,

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so you have that handy too.

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Again, visit my website, aubreybergauer.

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com slash 23 to get your arts and

culture advocacy cheat sheet right now.

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That's all for today, folks.

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Thanks so much for listening, and if you

like what you heard here, hit that button

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to follow or subscribe to this podcast.

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If you're new, welcome.

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I am so glad you made it.

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And if you've been listening

for a while, I love so much that

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you are getting value from this.

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So if that's you, please take just two

seconds to leave a quick one tap rating.

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Full on review isn't even

required if you're short on time.

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To all of you once more, thanks again.

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I'll see you next time right

here on the Offstage Mic.

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The Offstage Mic was produced by me,

Aubrey Bergauer, and edited by Novo

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Music, an audio production company of

all women audio engineers and musicians.

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Additional podcast support comes

from the Changing the Narrative

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team and social media brand

management by Classical Content.

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This is a production of

Changing the Narrative.