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Opening the Gates with Rhetta Wiley
Episode 14 • 11th September 2023 • Listening for Clues • On the Journey with Jon & Lauren
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Opening the Gates with Rhetta Wiley

We are honored to have the Rev. Dr. Henrietta Wiley, PhD, Rector of Trinity Episcopal Church, Towson, MD. Rhetta speaks with us about "opening the gates" of the church to new ways of thinking and new partnerships.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Rhetta's email address: hlwiley@trinitychurchtowson.org

Highlights:

00:00 Opening the Gates with Rhetta Wiley

00:00 Introduction

00:19 Introduction

01:29 Integrating Community

03:57 Partnership with Unity Fellowship Church

09:24 Initial Reactions at Trinity Church Towson

16:34 Mission

18:51 Surprises?

22:29 The Source of Deep Joy

26:35 Contact Information

27:12 Wednesday Evening Live Prayer

28:25 Final Words of Wisdom

28:54 Thanks

Listening for Clues is pleased to present our new series, "Good News!" featuring weekly conversations with people who are making a difference, large or small. We want everyone to know what they are doing, why they are doing it, and how. So, our listeners and viewers can experience the good news and go out and make a difference themselves.

Listening for Clues invites you into conversations that discover clues, rather than solutions to life’s problems. Join the journey with Jon Shematek and Lauren Welch, Episcopal deacons, as we explore whatever lies ahead. Check our website Listening for Clues.

© 2023 Listening for Clues

Transcripts

Speaker:

Good News Intro

Jon:

Welcome to Good News, being brought to you by Listening for Clues.

Lauren:

We are Lauren Welch and Jon Shematek, Deacons Diocese of Maryland.

Jon:

We sure are, and today we have a special guest, the

Jon:

Reverend Henrietta Wiley.

Jon:

Henrietta is Rector of Trinity Episcopal Church in Towson, Maryland.

Jon:

She is brilliant, which we all agree with.

Jon:

Funny, meaning she has a great sense of humor.

Jon:

I hope that's what funny means here.

Jon:

Also in your bio, Henrietta, you said you were fat.

Jon:

Pink haired, which I do see.

Jon:

Middle aged, you are a lesbian priest with the world's best

Jon:

spouse, whom we also love, Mary.

Jon:

. . And two madcap cats who may make an appearance at any

Jon:

point during this presentation.

Jon:

Well, welcome Rhetta, it's so good to have you.

Rhetta:

Thank you, it's wonderful to be here.

Rhetta:

I love you both, and I never get to see you enough.

Rhetta:

So this is a pleasure.

Rhetta:

I know, same here.

Lauren:

That's why we are so delighted to have you with us today, Rhetta.

Lauren:

So to begin with, tell us how you at Trinity are integrating

Lauren:

the full community around you.

Rhetta:

Well, when I arrived we had two or three different

Rhetta:

groups who were using our space.

Rhetta:

Now, I arrived nine months before the pandemic set in.

Rhetta:

And we had an AA group and they were great.

Rhetta:

And we had a group that does support for families of folks with autism.

Rhetta:

And...

Rhetta:

We had an art class and they were great and all of these groups Trinity

Rhetta:

considered on some level, although there was not a lot of integration

Rhetta:

thought of them as ministry partners.

Rhetta:

And when I arrived, I spoke with the vestry and thought what we really

Rhetta:

need to do for Trinity is to throw our doors open more and to really seek out

Rhetta:

ministry partners who, many of whom do rent our space, but who are more

Rhetta:

importantly, representing what I would consider to be aspects of the gospel.

Rhetta:

And this is important.

Rhetta:

Because we know that life has changed in the last, you know, 30, 40,

Rhetta:

50 years in terms of church life.

Rhetta:

And most people are not, are just not coming on Sunday.

Rhetta:

So, how are we going to get the gospel out if the only way we're

Rhetta:

doing it is on Sunday morning?

Rhetta:

So the best way to do it...

Rhetta:

We figured is to find partners who can make use of our space.

Rhetta:

And so now we're, now we're hopping.

Rhetta:

We're hopping pretty much every day.

Rhetta:

Now we already had our preschool which is wonderful and is now growing

Rhetta:

in the aftermath of the pandemic.

Rhetta:

Our surprise shop, which is our thrift and consignment shop, has always been hopping.

Rhetta:

But it's growing leaps and bounds.

Rhetta:

And now we have we have a Tai Chi class.

Rhetta:

For a while we had a theater group who was working out of our church.

Rhetta:

That was not a great fit, but we tried that.

Rhetta:

We have a candy maker who comes once or twice a week to, to make toffee.

Rhetta:

And as far as I'm concerned, there's no better news than chocolate and toffee.

Rhetta:

Evidence, evidence that God loves us, right?

Rhetta:

Right?

Rhetta:

The goodness of these things and I think perhaps the partnership I'm most

Rhetta:

excited and proud of is the partnership we've formed with Unity Fellowship

Rhetta:

Church, originally of Columbia, Maryland, but they've moved up to us.

Rhetta:

Unity Fellowship Church is A now 40 year old church movement that was started

Rhetta:

in Los Angeles by upon his passing, the Archbishop Carl Bean, who was an

Rhetta:

activist in LGBTQ rights in Los Angeles and especially for African Americans.

Rhetta:

And he was very active in AIDS activism and the cross section.

Rhetta:

of of LGBTQ African American and people with AIDS civil rights.

Rhetta:

He was very involved in that.

Rhetta:

And so he formed Unity Fellowship Church because so many of the people around

Rhetta:

him had been rejected by their church communities and their families, even.

Rhetta:

So he created this movement, it's not just a church, but a movement.

Rhetta:

And there was already a chapter, a church, a congregation in Baltimore.

Rhetta:

They're all over the country.

Rhetta:

They're in Newark.

Rhetta:

They're in New York.

Rhetta:

They're in Atlanta.

Rhetta:

They're in North Carolina, Charlotte, I think.

Rhetta:

Everywhere.

Rhetta:

All over the place.

Rhetta:

And this particular group that was in Columbia called me up, really cold

Rhetta:

called me, left a message, because they had been asked to leave a number

Rhetta:

of places where they were meeting.

Rhetta:

They were meeting at a rec center, and I don't know why the rec center

Rhetta:

wanted them to leave, but the rec center wanted them to leave.

Rhetta:

And it was one church that thought they would be okay with them being.

Rhetta:

LGBTQ, and then later decided they were not okay with that.

Rhetta:

And one group which apparently became uncomfortable with them being

Rhetta:

both African American and LGBTQ.

Rhetta:

So, meanwhile, I am new at Trinity and thinking, this is a historically

Rhetta:

white parish with some pretty serious historically white supremacist a In

Rhetta:

the 19th century pretty serious white supremacist activity at the same time

Rhetta:

as is often true in Episcopal churches.

Rhetta:

Really strong with factions, I suppose in the parish of really

Rhetta:

struggling for justice as best they could in the context of of Towson.

Rhetta:

And.

Rhetta:

So we have some African and African American members, but we

Rhetta:

are a predominantly white parish.

Rhetta:

And I thought, how am I going to get people to learn how to listen to each

Rhetta:

other and love each other and grow in their understanding of justice?

Rhetta:

When I'm the only queer person, well, me and my wife are the only queer people

Rhetta:

who are here routinely every Sunday.

Rhetta:

And we have maybe five folks with darker skin.

Rhetta:

So then I get this call from Unity Fellowship Church, and it was

Rhetta:

like the Holy Spirit said, Here, why don't you work with this?

Rhetta:

And so So we created this beautiful partnership where Unity worships on Sunday

Rhetta:

after we do, but they use our space for all kinds of things and we're overlapping

Rhetta:

more and more and we do pulpit swaps and looking forward to doing more mission

Rhetta:

work together and it's just this beautiful organic thing where we're, we're learning.

Rhetta:

Intentionally, but also unintentionally, by simply sharing space.

Rhetta:

And that's the thing.

Rhetta:

So that's the goal that I have and my lay leadership has, is to make Trinity what

Rhetta:

it once was, which is to say a center of the community, but to make it the

Rhetta:

center of the community in a new way.

Rhetta:

To make it the center of the community, not where people see power, because

Rhetta:

that's what Trinity was for a long time.

Rhetta:

It was the power center of Towson.

Rhetta:

And then, like all churches, we lost members for a variety of reasons.

Rhetta:

And so now we want to be at the center of Trinity as a source of welcome.

Rhetta:

A source of loving interaction, and a place where people encounter

Rhetta:

the gospel in action, regardless of whether they're going to come on Sunday

Jon:

yeah, wow it's so exciting to hear how the gospel is actually spreading this

Jon:

way and is overcoming the stereotypic thinking and racism and so many so

Jon:

many of the other evils that we have.

Jon:

What I'm wondering about, Retta, is this kind of transformation how was

Jon:

this initially accepted or received when you came to bring this prophetic

Jon:

kind of message to your folk at Trinity?

Rhetta:

I, I stand on the shoulders of giants.

Rhetta:

So for 40 years, 20 of those as rector One of the great priest in our time of

Rhetta:

Trinity Church was Kingsley Smith, the Reverend Kingsley Smith and Kingsley Smith

Rhetta:

was every bit as odd as I am, although he was neither fat, nor gay, nor pink

Rhetta:

haired he was he was brilliant and he just, he just passed away in in December

Rhetta:

and I miss him every day, but he laid the groundwork As a person who came from all

Rhetta:

of the categories of power and learned over the course of his ministry how to

Rhetta:

love better and how to, pursue justice.

Rhetta:

more effectively.

Rhetta:

I was very lucky to have him as a mentor the first few years

Rhetta:

of my ministry at Trinity.

Rhetta:

And he would say to me, as he was getting older, he would say, you

Rhetta:

know, the same things over and over again, but they were the right

Rhetta:

things to say over and over again.

Rhetta:

And one of them was, Rhetta, you have to preach the gospel, but

Rhetta:

you get to preach the gospel.

Rhetta:

And he would say, you have to love everybody.

Rhetta:

But you get to love everybody.

Rhetta:

So it was under his leadership that that Trinity began to grow smaller,

Rhetta:

not because he wasn't a fine priest, not because he wasn't a powerful

Rhetta:

preacher or a leader, but because he was leading in a time of desegregation

Rhetta:

and he advocated desegregation.

Rhetta:

And there were a lot of people.

Rhetta:

at Trinity, who were not into that.

Rhetta:

And they began to leave.

Rhetta:

And then when we started ordaining women, he was very supportive.

Rhetta:

And, you know, to look at him and to listen to the tone of his

Rhetta:

voice, you would not think he would be particularly progressive.

Rhetta:

He was very progressive, conservative in many ways, but socially quite

Rhetta:

progressive and really doing everything he knew how to do at a time when

Rhetta:

a , predominantly white churches were just not thinking about this stuff.

Rhetta:

Doing everything he knew how to do to try and break us open.

Rhetta:

And so, He really laid the groundwork.

Rhetta:

First of all, he chased away all the people who were really going to be

Rhetta:

difficult, but more importantly he was so respected and so loved by his

Rhetta:

people, and he was there for so long that he was trusted by many, that he

Rhetta:

was really able to bring people along.

Rhetta:

And what that meant was that then.

Rhetta:

Later after he retired and other rectors came along, people were prepared for

Rhetta:

things like young people who decided to come out as trans and to discern a

Rhetta:

process that was appropriate for them to to live a life that was consistent

Rhetta:

with their self understanding.

Rhetta:

And so, a parish that was in many ways still quite conservative, very

Rhetta:

lovingly walked with with the young people in their church, two or three

Rhetta:

young people, who set their feet on the path to live authentically

Rhetta:

and people loved them through that.

Rhetta:

So, when I came to Trinity, what I found was a community of people with whom I did

Rhetta:

not agree on everything, but with whom we agreed absolutely 100% agreed that our

Rhetta:

ministry was hospitality and welcome and making space for people to be themselves

Rhetta:

and to be loving with one another.

Rhetta:

Do we have room to grow?

Rhetta:

Of course we have room to grow.

Rhetta:

But that's where we were was that there I came to a community with open hearts.

Rhetta:

So even though people may not be all on the same page about racial reconciliation

Rhetta:

or Or welcoming of LGBTQ people.

Rhetta:

And we're not all on the same page.

Rhetta:

We are absolutely all on the same page of loving one another.

Rhetta:

When I say that, I mean, we don't have what I have experienced in my life.

Rhetta:

Which is people who think they're being loving, but are in fact being

Rhetta:

quite condescending or exclusionary.

Rhetta:

My favorite experience that I have, but have never seen at Trinity is

Rhetta:

people coming up to me and patting me on the hand to say they'll pray hmm,

Rhetta:

I'm glad that you're going to pray for me, but I wonder, I wonder if you're

Rhetta:

doing this as an act of love, or...

Rhetta:

As, as an act of rejection and and we don't have anything

Rhetta:

like that at Trinity at all.

Rhetta:

I, I have only seen people welcomed in and I say that and I acknowledge also that we

Rhetta:

have a long way to go on all these things because like many mainstream parishes.

Rhetta:

We are very family oriented, and the classic nuclear family orientation.

Rhetta:

And you can be as loving as you want to be, and that's not necessarily going to

Rhetta:

feel like the right space for you, if that's not the life you're going to live.

Rhetta:

But if that is the case I hope that people aren't are not walking away because

Rhetta:

they feel like they're rejected, but only that it's just not the right fit.

Rhetta:

My hope now is that as we continue to work with Unity, we will be finding ways to

Rhetta:

expand how our life is together and having our parish life be much more diverse.

Rhetta:

so that people feel like there's a fit for them I sound like I'm focusing

Rhetta:

on Sunday and to a large degree, I am focusing on Sunday because of course our

Rhetta:

mission as a church is to worship God.

Rhetta:

But our mission as a church is to worship God, not only on Sunday morning, but

Rhetta:

to proclaim the gospel and to share it with the world I want people to feel

Rhetta:

like whatever is going on in their life that there is something for them

Rhetta:

at Trinity that will help them connect with a sense of God's love, with a sense

Rhetta:

of community welcome and acceptance and also an opportunity for service.

Rhetta:

We recently I have, I have ADD, and so if you haven't already

Rhetta:

noticed, I skip around a bit.

Rhetta:

So my apologies.

Rhetta:

But we have, we have recently renewed, I'll say, renewed our mission statement.

Rhetta:

And our mission statement is a prayer loving God, we give you thanks

Rhetta:

that you have called Trinity Church to be a caring, Christ centered,

Rhetta:

diverse community, empowered to worship, serve, and grow in faith.

Rhetta:

Grant us strength that we may become ever more welcoming and inclusive and encourage

Rhetta:

all people to love God and one another.

Rhetta:

And that is something that we need to be doing seven days a week.

Rhetta:

And we need to be doing it with people who identify as Christian and people

Rhetta:

who may never identify as Christian because the Holy Spirit reaches out

Rhetta:

to different people in different ways.

Rhetta:

And I don't want to get in the Holy Spirit's way.

Rhetta:

I just want to open the gates.

Rhetta:

Right?

Rhetta:

I just want to open the gates.

Rhetta:

So that's the goal.

Rhetta:

I'm making it all sound perfect.

Rhetta:

It is not perfect.

Rhetta:

But but we're on the road.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Lauren:

It certainly sounds like you are, Rhetta.

Lauren:

And it sounds like you are empowering Trinity to become The Christian

Lauren:

Church of Love that we proclaim that we are and that we are called to be.

Lauren:

So, while you have been doing this, what has surprised you?

Rhetta:

So one of the struggles and joys that we have had And this is a place where

Rhetta:

I feel like maybe We have failed, but in our failure, thank God we have forgiveness

Rhetta:

and grace through Jesus Christ.

Rhetta:

As, as Towson becomes increasingly urban, we have more and more

Rhetta:

folks who are homeless, who are unhoused, who are displaced.

Rhetta:

And, We have found that we can create relationships with these people, mostly.

Rhetta:

And we have had times when we have successfully welcomed, and not just,

Rhetta:

not just in a our door is open way, but in a willingness to be in relationship

Rhetta:

with folks who are struggling.

Rhetta:

Who're struggling with mental illness, who are struggling with addiction, and

Rhetta:

of course, struggling with homelessness.

Rhetta:

So we've had these beautiful relationships some of these folks, they worship with us.

Rhetta:

We support them as, as we are able, not in a big way because we're

Rhetta:

not really equipped for that, but.

Rhetta:

We but we support them as we are able and and when they can some of these

Rhetta:

folks actually make a point of trying to give to the church, that surprised me.

Rhetta:

That surprised me.

Rhetta:

I'm not sure why, because I think we all know that.

Rhetta:

Poor people are more generous than rich people but they've been

Rhetta:

very generous with themselves and willing to be vulnerable with me

Rhetta:

and with other people in the parish.

Rhetta:

Unfortunately, when you're dealing with folks who struggle with addiction there

Rhetta:

can be times when safety issues come up.

Rhetta:

And it has been humbling for me, humbling for me, who just wants to love everybody

Rhetta:

all the time, everywhere to, to realize that I, that I have to draw boundaries

Rhetta:

sometimes for the sake, particularly for the children of the preschool.

Rhetta:

I find myself struggling with how to stay true.

Rhetta:

to the gospel in a system that is not really gospel oriented.

Rhetta:

What I mean is that we haven't come up with something better,

Rhetta:

And we've got a lot going on at Trinity, so do I now encourage

Rhetta:

Trinity to get involved in civic engagement around criminal justice.

Rhetta:

We've got a lot of stuff going on and we're actually a pretty small parish.

Rhetta:

So you, you know, this is not reasonable.

Rhetta:

But I also feel like now that something has come to my attention

Rhetta:

we have an obligation as the church that loves people to figure out

Rhetta:

how we can adequately do that.

Rhetta:

In a.

Rhetta:

world that is not interested in helping us do that.

Jon:

Having known you for a number of years and having literally experienced

Jon:

very profound and deep Joy, particularly when we were in our cathedral years

Jon:

at the Cathedral of the Incarnation, when we were at the altar together.

Jon:

You you, to me, have always been just wrapped in joy and

Jon:

the personification of joy.

Jon:

And I'm just wondering if you have a word to say to those of us like

Jon:

me, not Lauren so much, but me, who tend to take myself so seriously.

Jon:

And want to know what do you have a secret about that?

Jon:

How do we

Rhetta:

what, yeah.

Rhetta:

All right, so this shocks me to hear, Jon, because as I recall, we needed to

Rhetta:

be separated at the cathedral because we made each other laugh so much.

Rhetta:

That's my memory.

Rhetta:

Maybe I made that up.

Jon:

No, you're right.

Jon:

You're right.

Rhetta:

That's true.

Rhetta:

I remembered.

Rhetta:

So, I consider joy to be a gift of the Holy Spirit, and and it is rooted to me

Rhetta:

in a sense, an unshakable sense of God's love, an unshakable sense of God's love.

Rhetta:

And that As Kingsley said we have to love people, but we get to love people.

Rhetta:

And when we do it well, it's awesome.

Rhetta:

It's so much fun.

Rhetta:

It's so much fun.

Rhetta:

And and so it springs from a sense of being loved and from a sense of gratitude

Rhetta:

a habit of gratitude maybe which is which may be a little bit trite at this

Rhetta:

point, but when you realize how precious and wonderful everything is around you,

Rhetta:

even when things are pretty crummy, there's always something beautiful.

Rhetta:

There's always someone who says good morning to you at the right time, but

Rhetta:

most importantly, there is always Jesus.

Rhetta:

It is much, much easier for me to access that joy.

Rhetta:

I would say it's also connected to my vocation, my sense of vocation,

Rhetta:

which is as some of you may know, I, I started out as an academic.

Rhetta:

And my academic field of study was the history and

Rhetta:

literature of the Hebrew Bible.

Rhetta:

And I loved that, and I continue to love that.

Rhetta:

But I felt hobbled.

Rhetta:

And what I mean by that is that I was hopping around on one

Rhetta:

leg, and I was missing a leg.

Rhetta:

And I didn't know what it was, and it was sacrament.

Rhetta:

And once I started practicing my priestly ministry, it opened a

Rhetta:

floodgate of joy for me, because worship is so real and powerful for me.

Rhetta:

Our forms, which can be stodgy, but don't have to be our forms for me

Rhetta:

are Exquisite channels of glory and love and power and presence of God.

Rhetta:

And so it makes it much easier for me to access joy, which I think

Rhetta:

we all have the capacity for.

Rhetta:

But remembering how loved we are, being grateful for that and allowing

Rhetta:

ourselves the vulnerability.

Rhetta:

Joy is a very vulnerable emotion, actually.

Rhetta:

So allowing ourselves to be vulnerable enough to experience

Rhetta:

joy is tremendously rewarding.

Rhetta:

And what's nice about that sense of confidence in God's love is that in being

Rhetta:

vulnerable, if someone tries to pop our balloon we can still say, You know what?

Rhetta:

That's you.

Rhetta:

That's not me.

Jon:

Wow, thank you.

Jon:

I love that message.

Jon:

So, Rhetta people may become, becoming curious, interested in

Jon:

learning more about getting to know Trinity Episcopal Church in Towson.

Jon:

Or to get in contact with you to chitchat for some reason or another.

Jon:

Mm-hmm.

Jon:

How could they do that?

Rhetta:

Well, we have a website and that is www trinity church towson.org

Rhetta:

I can be reached personally at hlwiley@trinitychurchtowson.org

Rhetta:

but I'd also like to plug, if I may one of our growing ministries, which

Rhetta:

is our Wednesday night live evening prayer, which I do with my wife, Mary.

Rhetta:

It often involves funny hats.

Rhetta:

It began in the pandemic and it took off the night we did Pirate Evening Prayer.

Rhetta:

I encourage you to seek out Pirate Evening Prayer, or Beatnik Evening

Rhetta:

Prayer, or Star Wars Evening Prayer, or Viking Evening Prayer.

Rhetta:

We don't get quite that into it anymore, but it's a good time, it's

Rhetta:

funny, and that is on YouTube, on our YouTube channel, which is...

Rhetta:

Trinity Episcopal Church on YouTube.

Rhetta:

So I encourage people to check that out because it's fun and it's prayer.

Rhetta:

We do evening prayer together and we do intercessory prayer

Rhetta:

and we have a good time.

Jon:

So those links will be in our show notes.

Jon:

So anyone who wants to access Trinity.

Jon:

Rhetta or the special Wednesday evening fun evening prayer

Jon:

service you'll be able to do that.

Lauren:

And Rhetta, before we go, are there any other words of wisdom

Lauren:

that you would like to share with us?

Rhetta:

God loves every single one of us, including whoever

Rhetta:

you are out there, all the time.

Rhetta:

And the grace of Jesus Christ is available to you out there.

Rhetta:

All the time, everywhere that you are welcome it and whether, whether

Rhetta:

you experience it on Sunday or any other time, welcome it and

Rhetta:

let yourself be changed by it.

Jon:

Thank you, Retta.

Jon:

Thank you.

Jon:

You're, you are a gift to the church and a gift to the world and we

Jon:

appreciate your being with us today.

Jon:

Thanks so much.

Rhetta:

Thank you.

Rhetta:

And

Lauren:

Jon and I want to thank our viewers and listeners today.

Lauren:

We cannot do this without your participation.

Lauren:

Please take a moment and comment, like, and share on all

Lauren:

your social media platforms.

Lauren:

This will help us spread the good news to even more people.

Lauren:

Again, thank you for the gift of your time with us today.

Lauren:

Until next time, peace and blessings.

Lauren:

Good news is being brought to you by Listening for Clues.

Lauren:

You can find us on our website, listeningforclues.

Lauren:

com, our YouTube channel, our Vimeo channel, and just about every

Lauren:

podcast platform that there is.

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