If you’re strength training, eating “clean,” and still gaining fat or losing muscle after 40, it’s not just willpower—it’s physiology. In this episode we break down what actually changes during perimenopause and menopause (lean mass, central fat gain, estrogen shifts), plus the research-backed levers that still move the needle: resistance training intensity, protein targets, smart cardio, recovery, and when HRT may help. If you feel like the old playbook stopped working, this is your reset with a real framework.

KEY TOPICS

1. Why weight loss resistance shows up in midlife even for active women
2. How menopause shifts body composition toward central fat gain and lean mass loss
3. HRT and estradiol research for muscle gain and inconsistent fat loss outcomes
4. Protein targets for midlife women and how to hit them consistently
5. Training strategy that works: heavy lifting, cardio for VO2 max, power, agility, and recovery

TIMESTAMPS

[00:00] Why Bill Campbell shifted his research to menopause after his wife’s experience

[00:24] Female physiology matters: women are not “small men” and body composition changes hit hard

[00:57] First generation of strength-trained women entering menopause and why the research gap matters

[01:40] What’s really happening: gaining fat and losing muscle isn’t just about effort after 40

[09:13] Menopause vs aging debate: what the SWAN data suggests about the transition

[12:40] DEXA findings: lean mass loss begins and fat gain accelerates during the transition

[14:10] Why fat shifts to the middle: central adiposity, FSH rise, and estradiol decline

[15:00] HRT question: what changes when women use hormone therapy during training

[16:46] Estradiol and muscle: why estrogen therapy may be anabolic in trained women

[18:30] Estradiol and fat loss: why results are variable and not a guaranteed solution

[20:28] Hormone balance and nuance: estradiol, progesterone, testosterone, and body fat context

[22:55] Estradiol target ranges discussed for bone and muscle support

[27:53] Progesterone vs progestins: why older research can be misleading

[29:21] Protein targets: 0.75–1.0 g/lb ideal body weight and why most women under-eat protein

[33:47] Practical protein strategy: distribute evenly across meals to hit your daily target

[38:17] Protein timing around workouts: why pre vs post doesn’t matter much

[40:39] Supplements that matter: creatine, whey/complete protein, omega-3s

[43:22] Magnesium and vitamin D: common deficiencies and bone-health relevance

[45:00] Strength training minimum effective dose: 1 day for maintenance, 2+ days for best results

[47:16] Training doesn’t change by decade: intensity and proximity to failure are the difference

[49:46] Benchmarks: squat bodyweight and deadlift ~1.25x bodyweight as aspirational goals

[54:47] Cardio after menopause: VO2 max, HIIT, and why walking isn’t the same stimulus

[58:41] Stress resiliency: when pulling back is smarter than pushing harder

[01:00:16] Ideal weekly structure: resistance, aerobic fitness, power, agility, plus daily movement

[01:03:16] BFR/Kaatsu for joint pain and training around injuries

[01:05:02] What turned it around for Bill’s wife: progesterone first, then estradiol, plus patience

[01:07:46] HRT isn’t one-and-done: adjust, track, and combine with training, sleep, and recovery

[01:11:26] Where to follow Bill Campbell and his menopause fitness content

[01:12:00] Support the show and join the free community at optimizedwomen.com

Guest: Dr. Bill Campbell

Website: https://billcampbellphd.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/billcampbellphd/

LET'S CONNECT

Host: Orshi McNaughton

Podcast Links: https://optimized-women.captivate.fm/listen

Website: https://www.optimizedwomen.com/

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@optimizedwomen

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/orshimcnaughton

What made me shift from studying a younger, metabolically healthy population to midlife women going through menopause is my wife's experience going through menopause.

And for a while, she never wanted to talk about this.

In fact, she hid her struggles from me.

I knew something was going on, but neither of us knew it was menopause related.

I'm really appreciative that more and more men are starting to look at things through the lens of female physiology because we are not small men and there is big differences between men and women, especially when it comes to body composition.

There's so many women are suffering in silence.

It's a huge part that impacts our self confidence, how we show up in the world.

And that has like this domino effect on every aspect of our life.

So I really appreciate the researchers like yourself are coming into this space, developing interests, looking at women's health.

This is the first time in history where we have a population of women who've embraced a fitness lifestyle.

So women who are lifting weights for the last 10, 15, 20 years, and now they're starting to go through menopause.

Women are gaining weight just because that's what happens when we get older.

But the one side of the argument would state menopause has nothing to do with do with this weight gain.

The other side of the argument suggests that no, it's not just aging, it's the literal menopause transition.

There's something unique about this phase of life that's causing a pretty rapid change in a woman's body.

Welcome to the Optimized Woman, where we explore the future of health and longevity and what it really means to live life on our own terms.

I'm Your host, Orshi McNaughton and I talk with experts and innovators pushing the boundaries of what is possible today so you can turn these insights into your own health transformation.

Together, we are here to unleash the unstoppable force you're meant to be.

So if you're ready to own it, start thriving again and live the life you deserve, then let's get to it.

What if the reason you are gaining fat and losing muscle in midlife has nothing to do with eating too much or or not trying hard enough, and everything to do with how your physiology changes during the perimenopause and menopause transition.

Dr. Bill Campbell is a leading researcher in physique optimization and a director of performance in Physique Enhancement Lab in usf.

In today's episode, we are diving into what really happens in your metabolism Muscle mass, fat loss potential during the menopause transition and why most strategies completely miss the mark.

For women over 40, we break down the science on resistance training, protein intake, estrogen therapy, and why so many women hit the wall despite doing everything right.

So if you're struggling with body composition in midlife, this conversation will help you understand what's really happening and exactly how to turn it around.

So let's get into it.

What made me shift from studying a younger, metabolically healthy population to midlife women going through menopause is my wife's experience going through menopause.

And for a while, she never wanted to talk about this.

In fact, she hid her struggles from me like I was not aware.

I knew something was going on, but neither of us knew it was menopause related.

And just as a side note, I come at this from a very ignorant perspective, which has, is going to serve me well.

And I think people that want to learn from me because I can, I can really relate to not knowing anything about menopause transition, Know a lot about fat loss, know a lot about building muscle, maintaining muscle, but very ignorant about menopause transition and the impacts that it has.

So my wife has, or she had what I would call a train wreck experience.

A lot of things not going well for her.

She was in a pretty bad place.

And again, she, she, as much as she could, she hid it from our children and from me.

One of the things that was happening for her was a lot of weight gain.

And that's something that, you know, she didn't hide from me.

And as you know, I'm a fat loss researcher.

So I, I mean, I, you know, she would talk to me about it because many times in the past I would help her lose body weight.

Not that she ever needed to lose too much.

And it was always a very simple process.

So I don't mean to say that her weight gain was the worst of the problem she was experiencing, but it was one, you know, it was just added to the mix of problems, but it was not the most pressing, to say the least.

So I did what I always did.

I said, hey, let me, you know, I can help with this.

And just like, you know, throughout her life, throughout my life, I've dieted a lot.

I tried to help and, and I couldn't.

She could not help her.

And which was very odd for me because this was a very new experience.

And that's when I first realized, okay, this is, this is like weight loss resistance.

Really, like everything that used to work for her is no Longer working and what worked in all my research studies isn't working.

So, so I started and let me also say my wife is giving me permission to discuss this again.

There was a long period of time where she didn't want to discuss this, especially not publicly, but now she's okay with me talking about it.

So I don't want anybody to think that I'm talking about it without her knowledge and approval.

I started talking about this and initially not mentioning, hey, this is what my wife's going through, but just saying, hey, has anybody experiencing difficulty losing weight in your 40s, 50s?

And I, I got what I would call an avalanche of stories, very sad stories about again, a lot of different issues.

But I'm a fat loss researcher, so that's the one that I'm prepared to, you know, skilled to address.

So I realized quickly through thousands of direct communication, this was not an ice, this is not an isolated event.

So there's my long answer to why am I interested?

And I just want to say that I'm really appreciative that more and more men are starting to look at things through the lens of female physiology.

Because we are not small men and there is big differences between men and women, especially when it comes to body composition.

I think it's so obvious that our body compositions are different and how we optimize that in our hormonal makeup is just so different.

I myself come from being a owner of several fitness facilities for over 15 years and I ran three different gyms and ran body composition challenges for more than a decade.

And when I was younger, I got into it like in my late 30s.

And then as I was going into my 40s, I noticed myself that even though I thought I was doing everything right, everything was just getting harder and harder.

And I was developing that same weight loss resistance.

And I saw that in that same population that I was working with that just the strict nutrition fitness approach was not enough.

There was some tools missing from my toolkit.

I couldn't help people.

And that's how I also went down the rabbit hole of focusing on women that are 40 plus and 40s and 50s, because there's so many, so much misery and there's so many women are suffering in silence, a lot of them.

And as you said, the weight gain and the body composition change is just one part of it.

There's so many other components to this, but it's a huge part that impacts our self confidence, how we show up in the world.

And that has like this domino effect on every aspect of Our life.

When I talk to women, the first thing everybody wants to do is lose body weight, even though they have all kinds of health issues going on.

But the number one focus is always weight loss or body composition change because that is such a big piece of the puzzle of people's self confidence, how they feel about themselves, their mental health.

So I really appreciate that men, and especially researchers like yourself are coming into this space, developing interest, looking at women's health because we really appreciate it and we, we need that, we need any help we can get.

So I'm so excited that we're going to have this conversation and just see what you've learned so far.

So let's start with what makes menopause transition particularly challenging when it comes to body composition for women.

Yeah.

And, and before I answer that, can I give one other piece of context to this?

So you were a fitness professional experiencing this and observing it in others.

And what makes this very, I'll just say intriguing.

This is the first time in history, I believe, where we have a population of women who've embraced a fitness lifestyle.

So women who are lifting weights for the last 10, 15, 20 years and now they're starting to go through menopause.

I look at my mom, my aunts, there was no culture of resistance training, high performing females.

Right.

Like it, it, this is the first time that this has ever happened.

So it's frustrating in one sense because there's no research to rely on.

We have a lot of research on sedentary women going through menopause.

We have plenty of research, fortunately in the last 10 or 15 years on women's physiology.

But when you try to merge these two, there's a massive void of exactly what you went through, what my wife went through.

So it's, everything that's happening now is pioneering in the sense of the academic aspect of this.

And I'm appreciative of people like you who are, you know, I would say the true experts.

You're in the trenches, you're, you're, you're trying things, you're helping women through all kinds of different avenues.

And I just look at myself as coming along well after the fact and then starting just to test some hypotheses.

So I love the fitness professionals who specialize in this population because they're, they're, like I said, those are the, the actual experts in this space.

Now back to your question.

What I've been able to find relative to what's happening during the menopause transition.

Well, first of all, let me talk about the argument or the debate that has gone on in the scientific literature, in doctor's offices, in fitness clubs and the, the traditional debate is as women go through menopause, many of them will gain weight.

Not everyone will though.

I don't want to set a doomsday scenario out there where, oh, this is going to be a horrible experience.

It is not a horrible experience for, for every single person.

Some go through this with very minimal problems.

Others, like my wife, had a really bad time.

And then of course we have this middle area where it's, you know, it's, things are harder but it's not devastating.

So essentially the debate was women are gaining weight just because that's what happens when we get older.

But the one side of the argument would state menopause has nothing to do with this weight gain.

The other side of the argument, which is losing the argument in terms of having a voice in the, in the arena, suggests that no, it's not just aging.

It's the literal menopause transition or going from pre menopause to post menopause or perimenopause.

There's something unique about this phase of life that's causing a pretty rapid change in a woman's body.

And a lot of the research which is not good does support it's just aging alone.

So I started off my, my research by really getting into the swan studies, the study of women's health across the nation, which essentially is really, it's like a gold mine of information because these studies in which there's about 700 of them total that have been published, they have followed women throughout their middle aged years.

And when you follow women through midlife, you get a, just a tremendous amount of menopause transition research.

So the best design study that I've ever read on what's happening to a, to body composition came from this, these studies.

And these were prospective longitudinal studies, which means they followed women, they followed their menstrual cycles, they had them do DEXA scans every year where they could track muscle and fat.

And, and what they found was two things related to body composition.

One, for the first time in their lives, they started to lose lean mass.

Now this is not a lot, it's not like they lost tons of muscle during this.

Basically it was about a four year period of menopause transition, but it was the first time where lean mass started to be lost.

The second thing was they noticed, yes, everybody's gaining weight through this time, but there is an accelerated rate of increased body fat deposition during this same time period.

So they're losing lean muscle a little bit, they are gaining considerably more body fat.

And then the other thing that this research tells us is the body fat was not uniformly distributed throughout the body.

It is much more central adiposity that's deposited.

So they are gaining body fat all over, but not nearly as much in the lower body as they are in the upper body, particularly in the Android region.

And then lastly, what's causing this?

Well, the likely explanation or what other researchers have identified is the increase in fsh, follicle stimulating hormone and the concomitant decrease in estradiol concentrations.

That seems to be what's pulling the levers of this body composition changes for sure.

There's connection to hormones and decline of estrogen.

I'm curious, have you seen any studies of comparison of women that are on hormone replacement therapy?

Yeah, so I'm, I'm trying to read as much as I can on that.

I've noticed that, yeah, so what I've, I have not, I, I have many, many more hours, months, weeks, probably years to get a grasp of that.

So one thing just to give context, I'm really limiting my scope as much as possible to women who embrace a fitness lifestyle.

We have plenty of other research in sedentary women.

So I'm looking at the effects of resistance training or aerobic exercise plus hormone replacement therapy.

And what I found that is our audience are the health optimizers.

So I think most people listening to this are already working out, eating a fairly nutritious diet, although we are all always a work in progress.

But for the most part I would say our listeners already embrace that lifestyle in the health optimization community.

But as you said, are still having challenges in a non scientific way.

Just being a woman in my 50s who have gone through menopause and to some degree overcome this issue, although still it's always a work in progress that hormone replacement therapy played a positive role on turning things around.

But it was just one piece of the puzzle.

What are you seeing with the population?

I'm assuming the earlier research you mentioned were women that were going through a natural menopause transition without any type of replacement, right?

Yes, earlier research, yes, but I have focused in the, you know, the last few months I've been focusing on what is the exact impact of estradiol, so estrogen therapy on body composition.

Because to me that's the, that's the hormone that probably plays the largest role in this.

And let's look at what I found so far.

So by no means is this a conclusive Opinion.

Now, I do have conclusive opinions on all things resistance training and what happens to muscle and body fat in everybody but this population.

So the research is pretty positive for women who begin estradiol therapy.

So taking hormone replacement therapy and its ability to enhance muscle mass, I've seen that in not every single study, but multiple studies.

And when I look at research, there's something called randomized double blind placebo controlled studies.

Those are the highest quality.

Some of those are also pointing to the fact that estradiol is anabolic.

So if I were to make a summary statement for women who are able to go on estrogen, who don't have contraindications and they're living a fitness lifestyle, it's more, it's likely that it will be a net positive in terms of their muscle mass.

So they'll get more out of their resistance training than if they were not taking hormone replacement therapy.

The other side of this or the other tissue that we need to look at is what about body fat?

Now, I was, you know, hoping, even in my wife's case, when she started estradiol, I wanted, as a human that was a researcher, I don't care, I just want the data.

But as a human, I'm hoping that I'm gonna, as I start looking into this, that I see a bunch of research where estradiol is going to lower body fat levels.

And unfortunately, I didn't see that.

There are some studies where estradiol clearly lowers body fat levels.

And again, these are mostly in the older research where there is no resistance training.

At the same time, I've come across many studies where estradiol has no impact on causing fat loss.

And there's even some studies where estradiol actually causes or actually suppresses the amount of body fat.

So women are not losing as much body fat as compared to a placebo group.

And this is in a resistance trained population.

So I look at the, you know, the breadth of this research and it's highly variable.

I might say that the research is all over the place.

And I compare that to, well, what feedback am I getting?

I'm in a good position where women are sharing with me, usually privately.

This is my experience and I would say it very much mimics that research.

Some women tell me, oh, I lost a lot of weight when I started estrogen.

Others are like, it did, you know, absolutely nothing for me.

And I don't think women, I mean, and again, some, some women would say, hey, I gained weight during this.

Now, I've never seen that in the research Literature where somebody's exercising and taking hrt, where there was body fat gain, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

But I'm saying in the research.

So let me just conclude by saying hrt, particularly estradiol, is what I focused on net positive for, for muscle mass and way too variable for me to ever make any conclusive statement about body fat reduction.

I think the challenging part, and I think this is why most studies were done on men and not on women, because women are so challenging with their hormones, is that it comes down to hormonal balance.

So you don't want women to be estrogen dominant and you don't want them to have an estrogen deficiency either.

You have to be balanced.

And even when you go into menopause, especially menopause perimenopause, women are still on a roller coaster of their hormones going up and down.

So you could have months when women are estrogen dominant and you could have months when they are actually deficient.

Now, once they actually go into post menopause, I would say things get maybe a little bit more simple.

But even a couple of years after menopause, because even during that few years, right at menopause, things are still fluctuating.

And then you also have to look at their progesterone and testosterone levels too.

So it's not just estradiol.

So I think.

And then, as you said, there's other factors of their overall body fat.

Like, I think a woman who's very obese on estrogen therapy will not do as well as somebody who's already leaner, closer to their ideal weight and strength training.

So I think the more body fat you have, the less likely that you're going to see like an immediate impact from estrogen therapy, at least just from what I've seen with the women anecdotally that I'm working with.

So it's so nuanced because I think what women need to understand is just one piece of the puzzle of lifestyle optimization.

And it's a very important piece, I think, if you're going into menopause.

But it's just one piece.

And I don't want to get too stuck on hrt.

I want to get into at least the fitness components too.

But before we move off of the hormone replacement topic, do you have any guidance on the ideal amount of estrogen therapy?

Because there's a huge debate how should you replace hormones for women?

And some doctors and physicians really just go for like the absolute minimal effective dose to eliminate symptoms.

And some try to Go to an optimized range so you don't lose muscle mass and serve your bone density and more of those longevity benefits that you get from a little bit higher amounts of estradiol levels.

Do you have any opinions on that?

Yeah.

And then I, I want to follow up with a question to you just about the estrogen dominance thing, because that's, that's something I'm currently trying to learn about.

So just one thing that made sense to me and this, this is for a woman who is probably early post menopause and they're now just starting hrt.

And, and let me say you make a good point.

It's not just estradiol.

A lot of these, now some of the studies was only estradiol, but a lot of times there is estradiol plus progesterone or a lot of the studies are estrogen plus progestins, the synthetic versions of progesterone.

We almost have nothing on testosterone, like nothing.

So my lab is going to start a case series studies on that.

We can talk about that later.

What I've learned so far and again, I want to make sure I am early in this process.

So if we do this next year, maybe my opinions change.

But I came across research that identified and I wish I would.

I think it's Lisa Gerstman, I think that's her name.

She put, she sent me an article about, hey, if you're going to prevent the loss of bone mineral density or optimize bone health, estradiol levels need to be at 60 picograms per milliliter.

So that always stuck out.

You at least want to get your levels to there.

And then in the other research that I've read where they measured muscle mass changes with estradiol, those ranges were typically above 80 picograms per milliliter.

So it seems like 60 to 80, let's just say 80 ish is what a blood level needs to be according to the few studies that I've read on muscle and HRT treatment.

Now, one thing that made sense to me, let me back up if what I've learned this.

There is so many opinions on how best to go about this.

And I think I've learned people have their own little systems or hey, this is how it should be done.

And I just look at this globally.

I believe that there is for women who don't have contraindications, an overall benefit to getting estrogen into their bodies.

So systemic levels, not just like, like vaginal estrogen.

So the amounts other than what I Just said, I don't know yet.

Give me another year.

And I think I'll have more informed opinions as I'm reading more and more of the research.

But for using my wife as an example, she was several years post menopause, not too many years.

So I was just thinking, and again, I talked to a lot of physicians, people like you, experts in this space, doing my own research, and I thought, you know, if she has had low estrogen levels for three, four, maybe five years, it makes sense to me that her estrogen receptors are not going to be very active.

So I don't think it makes sense to give her a high dose on day one.

I think it makes sense.

Let's start slow just to get, I hate to say, as a scientist, wake up her estrogen receptors, but get them used to a physiological environment where estrogen is now present.

And that's what we did with my wife.

And essentially what that looked like for us was cutting a estradiol patch in half for a few months and now most recently going to a full estradiol patch.

And again, that made sense to me.

I'm not sure if there's research on it, but past this initial, you know, and if somebody's in their 40s and they're just, they're, let's say they're on top of this change, I don't, there might not be a reason to do that past this, of making the body become introduced to estrogen being present again.

I don't, I haven't read enough research to have an opinion.

Should it be very high?

Well, I guess I do have an opinion.

I, I don't think the minimal, as low of, as a minimal dose as necessary.

If that's not going to give us the health benefits and the health benefits that, that I've started looking at are bone health.

There's no question that estrogen therapy is helpful for that.

And I, I know it's, it's debated on cardiovascular health and cognitive health.

I can, you can read hundred studies, this is not helpful.

100 studies saying this is very helpful.

I have to sort through that right now.

I just say it's debatable.

But in my wife's case, as I look at her, to me it was an easy decision to make sure she's getting estradiol for the heart health potential, cognitive health potential, and the clear bone health outcomes.

Was that helpful?

I think when you are doing your research, one thing you also want to parse out is progestine or progesterone, because a lot of Obviously synthetic progesterones are the ones that are associated with breast cancer and all the other issues too.

And now in the holistic health space, I don't think there's anyone that is ever now recommending progestines for women for hormone replacement.

I think we are all on board with progesterone being the best option.

So I think that could taint the data if you're looking at women that were taking synthetic combinations of that.

So I mean, what would be really nice to see is just estradiol with progesterone, like oral progesterone and topical estradiol combination, which is probably the best sort of gold standard right now.

Yeah, and I agree with that.

But as you know, the, the older research that they didn't often use progesterone.

And just, just to be clear, so progesterone is exactly what our bodies produce.

Progestins are synthetic versions of that, that it's not chemically the same, not that they don't have effects.

But yeah, to me it's just on a logic, just from logic, why would I not want what the body produces naturally?

So again, that's, that's logical to me.

Yeah, 100.

So I would love to just move on and talk about protein intake.

So this is probably going to be completely in your wheelhouse of how much protein should we, should we be eating?

And a lot of the numbers that I've heard, and maybe you could tell me if this is correct, is, is that we should aim for at least a gram of protein per ideal body weight.

But as we are aging going into 60s, 70s and up, then you may need to even increase that.

What, what is your research tell you?

Yeah, so, so two things.

One, the research that has looked at this in middle aged women and then let's just say again, we don't have research in this fitness population, but one thing we know is that women in general do not eat enough protein.

The data that I've been able to find on this is on average about 70 grams of protein per day.

Again, that's coming from the Swan series of studies.

And I don't like to give, hey, eat this amount like you were suggesting, how much based on our body weight or ideal body weight.

Right.

And with that I'd like to give a range of 0.75 grams per pound on the lower end and up to a gram per pound on the upper end.

So if a woman weighs 140 pounds, that would be 30, 105 grams on the lower end and up to 140 grams on the upper end.

So that that range and we are suggesting ideal body weight.

So if somebody needs to lose, you know, somebody's 200, 220 pounds and their ideal weight is 140, well then we would base it on 140.

I don't know, I'll just assume you might have some listeners in, in, in European countries.

So the, the Same amount is 1.6 to 2.2 grams per kilogram of body weight.

So that's a range that I like to give.

The older we get, the more we need because our bodies become less sensitive to protein intake.

But that's where there's that one gram per pound that addresses even the, what I, what we call anabolic resistance.

So going above that provides very little extra benefit.

So I'll phrase it like this.

The more and more protein you eat, the less and less of a benefit there is.

But if anybody is less than my lower threshold, so less than 0.75 grams per pound, if you go from lower to that range, there are huge, massive benefits to your body composition.

Multiple studies have shown this across the lifespan.

So young women, women in menopause, women in post menopause.

So as fitness professionals, it's the lowest lever we can pull to help women just if they're not currently eating optimal protein.

If you make that one change you will have, I will say significant because that's what the research says, impacts on body composition, where they'll gain muscle and lose body fat.

You mentioned that over that amount there's less and less benefits.

But I don't know anybody who eats more protein than that because people are not willing, as you said like 70 grams were like the average.

And what I see is that everybody's telling me they are eating protein, but if they track it even just for a day, then they know that you can see that not even close to what they should be eating.

No one, no one eats enough like unless they are super intentional about having a really protein forward diet.

I find that if I were to eat just protein all day, that's when I would go over and that's pretty much impossible.

Just eat protein.

Like you're going to have carbs, carbs and fats and just to like to get that amount of calories in.

And I think that's why when you see bodybuilders getting ready for a show, it seems like they are constantly eating protein like every couple of hours because it's so hard to get it in.

Right.

What are you have some strategies of what you recommend for women, especially in this transition, of how they can hit their protein goals.

Yeah.

So based on research, the best thing is to just, you got to have your goal.

So again, what is your total daily protein intake?

So figure out what that is and then we want to make sure that we get that protein goal.

So let's just say we're using 140 grams.

Let's just use that example.

By the end of the day, I need to ingest 140 grams.

The best way to do that now is to ask, okay, within your lifestyle, do you, how many feedings are you going to have today?

Are you going to have three feedings, four feedings, five feedings, whatever that is.

We want to try to approximately evenly distribute our protein feedings into a, you know, a fraction of 140 grams.

So let's just use.

Somebody says I'm going to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner and I'm also going to have a post workout snack or meal.

So the easy thing there is to just say, okay, that's four meals, 35 grams of protein for breakfast, 35 grams of protein for lunch, 35 grams of protein for dinner and 35 grams of protein after my workout.

That's when you look at it meal by meal and you plan, there's no way this is going to happen naturally.

It has to be planned.

And essentially you're just choosing to eat some type of, typically an animal source of protein.

Eggs, chicken, lean beef, fish and, or you know, yeah, shrimp or you can even leverage protein supplements.

That's what I have to rely on.

I wish I could get all of my protein through whole foods.

I think that's better.

But I struggle with that.

So for my post workout meal, I will typically have a protein like a whey protein supplement.

I have two questions on this.

So I read a study a couple of years ago that came out that there was some, and I think the study was primarily on women, that there was a positive impact on muscle mass if you had a larger, largest amount of protein consumption in the morning.

I don't know if you have read that same thing, that consuming larger amount of calories, especially protein for your first meal of the day and then, you know, obviously tapering it down as, as you go through the day was the most effective way to, to preserve muscle mass.

Yeah, so I, I'm not aware of that study.

And this is, this is, I've done multiple protein studies so I'm, I would be surprised if I overlooked it.

I can cite studies now that were in males, so and Again, it's possible I overlooked that study, but the studies that I'm relying on kind of guard against skewing the meal.

So in our culture what tends to happen is we eat almost no protein for breakfast and we have the largest amount at night.

The ideal here again, if the goal is to maximize muscle mass approximately even protein feedings, okay.

I think it had to do with your circadian rhythm somehow of like consuming the larger amount in the morning.

And I think it also set you up for eating more protein during the day because as you said, most Americans tend to eat like a carb heavy breakfast.

And it kind of, this is like the opposite of that, having protein in the morning, it sets you up for eating more protein during the whole day and, and also somehow it aligns with your circadian rhythm, like having more calories in the morning.

You have, I think your entire neat will go up during the day of just burning more calories too.

And I'm not sure, I don't remember all the details now, but I, at least that's what I thought was sort of the idea behind it.

Well, I would never argue with having a high protein breakfast because as we're both saying, first of all, you just spent the last 8, 10, 12 hours fasted, so your, your muscle protein breakdown is elevated.

So breakfast break the fast protein will put you in a, in an anabolic state versus a catabolic state.

And what's your take on consuming protein before, during or after your workouts?

So the research on that is it doesn't matter whether you take it before or after.

So I always like to ask people, what do you prefer?

I personally prefer to take it after as a beverage, but taking a, the same amount of protein, beef, like you know, within 30 minutes before, within 30 minutes after, you get the same exact muscle protein synthesis response, which actually, I mean it surprises me because if you take it before, I know that the body now prioritizes blood flow to muscles, not blood flow to the organ, to the digestive organs.

So I would intuitively think don't take it before because you're not going to digest it as well.

But that's, it's just not what the research says.

So I, whatever somebody prefers is equally effective.

And let me also say the most important thing is get hit your daily goal.

If before, after the workout, whether you get more breakfast, lunch, dinner, those things are all secondary or tertiary to getting the total amount that you want that we talked about before the 0.75 to 1 gram per pound over the course of the day.

So the timing of eating within that window of your workout of a couple of hours doesn't really matter as long as your daily protein consumption is there?

Exactly.

Yes.

Yep.

Okay.

And when I was younger, I would have never believed that.

But multiple studies have shown it taking it pre or post makes no difference.

Now that being said to me, I always take protein after my workout.

I'm going to eat protein anyway.

There's no harm in it.

And it just makes sense to me.

But we just published the latest study.

This was in male bodybuilders, same type of protein timing study.

And, and it just reinforced what all the other research has reported.

Surprisingly, it doesn't matter.

Can you talk about supplements a little bit?

So things that.

Complete amino supplements, whey protein, creatine, maybe we could start with those and then if, if there's any other really important supplements that people should be thinking about.

Yeah, Create Creatine is cheap.

It's probably the most studied dietary supplement ever besides caffeine.

So it's safe and it helps build muscle.

So I think that one's a, an easy supplement to take.

And when I got into this career in the, when I was a grad student, it was create Creatine was a sports supplement all about building muscle.

Jumping higher.

Now it is a literal health supplement.

It helps prevent concussive events or somebody has a concussion and they have creatine in their body.

Their, their symptoms are not nearly as bad.

We know that people who have strokes can recover a lot faster with create with creatine supplementation helps with Parkinson's disease.

They looked at it in infants, autism.

Now I'm not on top of this research by any means.

I read the research about fitness and building muscle.

But there are.

So the days of thinking of creatine as only a sports supplement are well past where we're at now.

So that's a pretty easy one.

What else did you ask?

So I mentioned like things like whey protein and amino.

Complete amino supplements.

Yeah.

So whey protein, let's.

If we're going to use that one half of whey protein is comprised of essential amino acids and a third of whey protein is branch chain amino acids.

Personally, I don't, I don't spend money on BCAAs or essential amino acids because I know that when I'm taking whey protein or casein or soy, I'm getting all of those anyway.

So I prefer whole protein sources even in, you know, supplemental forms.

Another supplement that I think is pretty good to take would be fish oil or essential fatty Acids.

So epa, dha, we know that those are anti inflammatory and it seems to mean this is an area that my, that I'm starting to research that the best types of diets.

Anecdotally I don't have evidence on this yet, but it seems to be more of an anti inflammatory diet.

So the supplements that would help with inflammation seem to make sense for during this phase of life.

Was there any other supplement we skipped over or the essential fats and creatine and maybe some protein powder.

Was there anything else that sort of on top of your list especially for women?

Yeah, so just some other ones that often come up are magnesium.

A lot of people happen to are deficient in magnesium.

Another wouldn't be vitamin D. So that's one.

I mean there clearly there's a link to bone health.

Right.

And a lot of people are would be surprised that they have low levels even when they live in sunny areas.

So vitamin D is, I would add that to essential fatty acids, vitamin D supplement, making sure we're getting protein.

If we need to rely on supplements, that that's fine.

Yeah, I 102nd that.

I do a lot of lab testing for people and every single person is deficient in vitamin D as far as not optimal.

So either under 30 or teetering that barely acceptable range.

And almost no one is above 50.

And I live in Southern California, you live in Florida and we probably test ourselves.

And still although I take vitamin D supplements myself, almost everyone is, is deficient.

Unless you specifically eating cod liver and all kinds of other things salmon and getting it from your diet and expose yourself to the sun enough.

Unfortunately it's something that you really need to be conscious of.

So thank you for reminding us.

I want to talk about strength training.

So what is the minimal effective dose?

As we are going into perimenopause menopause, what would you say would be the effective dose to maintain versus actually build new muscle tissue?

Yeah, I try to provide a lot of context around that.

So if somebody hates they just do not like lifting weights, I would just encourage them.

Well what are you willing to go once per week?

And if they say yes, then great, you're gonna get a, you're going to get an anabolic.

Now one time a week is not ideal, but I would never want to tell somebody, oh, you have to go three days per week.

You don't have to go three days per week.

If you go once per week and you lift weights in an effective manner and we can talk about what that looks like.

But basically it means lifting weights that are relatively heavy to near failure.

So that means you know you're working hard during that one workout per week.

You will gain muscle if you haven't lifted before, and that's plenty to maintain muscle mass.

Now, if we start looking at what's ideal or optimal, one day per week is not ideal.

It's going to be at least two or more times per week.

That depends on somebody's.

So let me phrase it like this.

I want to get somebody's schedule, and I want to ask them, how many days can you go to the gym to work out?

And whatever day they give me, it's going to be anywhere from one to six days.

I always recommend taking one day off from training.

I we will design a program that is ideal for what you can actually do.

I like the idea of three days per week in general, but I can't say, oh, research says three days is better than four or five is better than two, that it's pretty much equal.

As long as your total lifting volume is equalized.

The number of times you stimulate a muscle group doesn't matter other than once or once per week is not ideal.

I'm aware of several studies that have reported that.

So I like to look at it as we're stimulating body parts or muscle groups at least two times per week.

And if you can get three or four, awesome.

And we can start designing workouts around that type of frequency.

Is there a way women should be working out differently in their 30s, 40s, and 50s?

Is there a change, or is it pretty much the same strategy?

Yeah, no, it's pretty much the same.

Now, one thing we know that we women and men, we start to lose muscle mass, and we also start to lose strength, and we lose power production, our ability to produce power.

So I'm going to sound sexist here for a moment, but I'm going to cite the research.

Women, according to the research, do not choose weights that are heavy enough to give them the adaptations that they say they want.

Men actually have the other problem.

Men choose weights that are too heavy, and they get injured much more often than females.

So if you can lift a weight 10 times and you're only lifting it five times, then that's too light.

So generally, I like to say choose a weight that you can lift around, you know, six to 12, let's just say 10 times.

And by the time you get to the 10th rep, it should be.

It should be getting very hard to do that last repetition.

So I, I always make fun of pink dumbbells because women will Self select weights.

And if you just go to Google when we're done and just put, just ask put in women lifting weights.

It's crazy.

It's always tiny weights and many times they're pink and I don't ever want to shame activity.

But if you're capable of lifting 10 pound dumbbells or 20 pound dumbbells, which almost everybody is, and you're already at the gym, you're already committed time and energy and you're lifting weights that are not going to give you a stimulus for strength and growth.

I, I hate to say it, but you're wasting your time for the most part.

Like you would be much better off just doing body weight stuff.

That would be more of a stimulus.

So I'll just.

And again, I don't want to, I don't want women to hear, oh, I have to squat really heavy weight.

No, you don't have.

Nobody.

I love squatting and deadlifting and bench pressing.

To me those are the ideal exercises.

Multi joint, you can go heavy, but anything you do, choose a weight that is heavy enough that you can only do on average between 6 and 12 repetitions.

And here's a, here's an example I've used recently.

If you pick up a weight and you can lift it more than 20 times, that is too light.

So I just want to put you in the neighborhood of being effective.

Choose weights that you cannot lift more than 20 times.

That at least gets you in the neighborhood.

Yeah.

Now those women that are already working out, they already lifting weights and they want to set some goals for themselves.

I want to be able to squat this much or deadlift this much or bench press.

Can you give some benchmarks?

So for example, like a benchmark I like to give to women and you can tell me if I'm, I'm in the ballpark.

Like I think women should be able to squat their own body weight in pounds.

Would you have some benchmarks like that for other like barbell movements?

Yeah, I love that as a goal for squat, for deadlift, 1.25 times one's body weight is, is, is a really good goal.

Bench press, definitely not your own body weight.

I mean some women can and that's awesome.

But that, that would be quite aggressive on a bench press.

But just the fact that you ask and bring up these three exercises, I, these are, these again, I look at these as if you can't if you're capable, if you have healthy joints, you've got good range of motion and you're healthy.

And these are not Part of your program.

I always want to say they need to be in your, in your program.

Now, not everybody can do these, but if you have the capability, we want you to include them because they are going to have the best stimulus for bone mineral, not acquisition, but maintaining your bone mineral density.

And they're going to be whole body joint, so multi joint.

So you're working many different muscle groups at the same time.

So they're aspirational for some.

And a lot of people will say, well, I can't do them, they're hard.

I would say, I agree.

You don't just walk in one day and do a squat.

This is why it's awesome to work with a fitness professional.

Let them teach you how to do these lifts.

But you start with like just using body weight, squat with your body weight, then hold dumbbells, then hold a kettlebell, then put up just an empty bar on your back if you can do that.

So for all of these lifts, squat, bench press, and deadlift, there are progressions that start much simpler and then when you can get to the point of ideally your form is good and you.

These are part of your, your workout routine.

Yeah, I completely agree with you.

And, and people need to start wherever they are at, but I think to be optimal, you do need to lift heavy.

I'm.

I'm definitely biased to lifting barbells myself.

So you can really load it and lift heavy.

And I think what people need to feel sore.

I think people need to feel the adaptation afterwards of that hermetic stressor of the workout.

I feel like if you work out and you feel nothing the next day, you didn't put enough weight on that.

Barbell or you didn't take it to what we call close to failure again, the Last rep or 2 should be getting very hard to do.

So that's generally what causes that soreness.

And I agree, if you're just going through the motions, you're not getting, you're not getting the adaptation that you say you want.

I really want to second what you said about the pink dumbbells, is that a lot of women, they work out, but they just don't push themselves enough in the gym.

They literally don't take it to that exhaustion, to the place where you're really sweating, where you're really tired, where you're really lifting the heavier weights.

So I feel like that is sometimes the difference between actually getting the body transformation or not getting it.

So as long as you're staying in your comfort zone and that workout is fairly comfortable for you, you're probably not getting the adaptation.

And as you said, men are like, grunting and doing all kinds of things at the gym, and women are like, just having fun.

Women tend to push themselves on cardio, but not with the weights.

At least that's what I see.

Yeah, I think that's generally true.

And earlier I said, you know, choose a weight that allows you to do six to 12 repetitions.

That's a good sweet spot.

But sometimes lift weights that are heavy, where you can only get 3, 4 or 5 reps.

Sometimes you'll choose lighter weights where you can get, you know, 15 to 20 reps.

But you.

I love switching up these rep ranges where again, most of the time, 6 to 12 repetitions, but especially with squats, deadlift, bench press, if they're in your routine, those are going to be generally lower, like 4 reps, 5 reps, maybe.

6 reps. For longevity and just aging well, as we are getting into our 50s and up.

What's your take on cardio and conditioning?

How much should be part of your training?

So, one thing I've learned as I've been in this research base cardiovascular disease risk significantly increases at menopause.

So we know that we're going to have to be aware of this increased risk.

And resistance training is great, but it's not nearly as effective for cardiovascular health as endurance or aerobic exercise.

So I love that to kind of give us.

Just like we know we're going to lose muscle, let's lift weights.

Just like our risk for heart disease is going to go up, let's have cardio be a part of our program.

In terms of days per week.

I, I usually just discuss it within this context.

The goal is to improve your aerobic fitness or aerobic capacity.

Some people will call that V2 max.

That means that it's going to be high intensity generally.

Now, that doesn't mean that walking is worthless.

Walking should.

Walking is a great form of aerobic exercise, but it will not improve aerobic capacity.

VO2 max.

So high intensity interval training or sprint interval training is the most efficient way to do this.

And I want to give some context around this.

If you can improve your aerobic fitness, what that means is you're basically, you're taking in more oxygen from the atmosphere.

So out here, and you're able to deliver that to the mitochondria in your muscles.

If you can do that, that means that you have improved the, the functioning of your cardiorespiratory system.

So your lungs are now healthier.

They can take in more air.

And that also means once the air is in our lungs, it now goes to our hearts.

And that is where our hearts next are going to pump this blood out with this extra oxygen in it.

And that means we're going to have a healthier heart where it's pumped out.

That's the blood vessels.

We are going to have healthier blood vessels that are unobstructive.

If we can improve our aerobic capacity, then we, this blood that has oxygen in it goes to our muscles.

Our muscles have to take this or absorb it.

That means we have healthier muscles.

So if you improve your aerobic capacity, you've improved so many body systems that make you just a, an optimal human that it's, it's awesome.

You're like, you're almost like a machine at that point.

Especially if you're resistance training now with high intensity interval training and lifting weights.

One thing I've learned is that some women are going to have a very, they're going to be in a place where they have zero energy and higher levels of anxiety, maybe depression.

I'm.

There are times when we don't have to push the envelope on all of this stuff.

In fact, I recommend pulling back on almost everything for a short period of time.

Again, I want, I don't want to send them.

The message I want to send is as you project out the rest of your life, you should have a vision where you're lifting weights, where you're, you know, you're doing cardio, high intensity, low intensity.

But I also want to know, or I also want to acknowledge if you're currently, you cannot get off the couch.

I want you to focus on, let's getting you, let's get you healthy, let's get you to a place where you can see yourself doing squats, see yourself doing some sprinting.

And that might not be this week.

So I don't like to add that stress because I think you and I both know there are women in that position.

And hearing somebody like me say, yeah, you got, you should do this and this, you should.

But if you're not in a very good place, let's make that aspirational.

Once you're in a place where we, where that can happen for you.

And that's one of the biggest difference between men and women in their 40s and 50s is that we have a much more fragile state of stress resiliency as women during that time of life.

And a lot of things go into your quote unquote stress bucket.

And a lot of it could Be mental, emotional type of stress, health issues.

And also these hermetic stressors also go into that.

So it all goes into that same stress bucket and you have a certain capacity.

And so if you exceed that capacity, that could be because you were doing HIIT training three days in a row that you shouldn't have.

And instead at that point you want to maybe take a day off, focus on recovery and work on your stress resiliency, maybe doing some meditation, doing things to improve your heart rate variability, which fitness will help with that.

But it can also make it worse if you overdo it.

So it's a nuanced balance.

But I think the point for the health optimizers, if it's in your capacity, as you said, doing the box jumps, doing the slam balls, doing the sprints, those things are an important part of your workout.

But it shouldn't just be that.

Right?

It should be also a big part of it should be the weightlifting and the strength training.

And you have to find that nice training schedule for yourself that fits your lifestyle and your stress resiliency.

And based on your age or where you are at now, given all that, what would be a good workout schedule?

Yeah, I like four exercise variables to be in every program.

The foundation in my opinion would be resistance exercise, resistance training.

So we start there.

The next thing would be aerobic fitness.

So cardio.

And it doesn't have to be high intensity sprint interval training to improve aerobic capacity.

It does have to be high intensity, but it doesn't have to be sprinting and then relaxing.

Again, that's just an efficient way.

And then the other two variables that I think should be in every program is power training and agility training or what I like to call just foot speed training.

Now those last two can easily be part of a warmup for resistance training or an aerobic event.

They don't, I don't want to keep saying, oh, I have to have a day of this and a day of this.

Some people do can do power training.

So you called them box jumps.

That's perfect because we lose our capacity to produce power as we age and that actually we lose that faster than strength in our 50s, 60s.

So doing things that are explosive like box jumps or like push ups that are explosive in nature or medicine ball throws, that's going to help us retain our capacity for power production.

But again, I just usually include these in a warm ups so it's not adding a lot of extra days and time to my workout.

So I again I would always ask, well, how many days can you go to the gym?

If they say three days per week, then I would say okay, we'll do two days of resistance training with that will include power and agility stuff in the warm up.

And then that third day per week we would do some type of aerobic activity for the third day.

And then I would, I would also advocate, can you walk?

Can we do other forms of movement throughout the week?

If it's four days per week, I would lean into.

What do they like?

Do you like cardio more?

Do you like resistance training more?

So I always like to work with people's, their preferences because then that, that's going to mean that they're going to adhere better to a plan.

But again then I could hear people saying, well, I hate lifting weights, I'm never going to lift weights.

My response to that would be okay, but this is just, this is, this is a decision you're making and this is the outcome of that.

But can you, would you be willing to do one day per week or two days per week?

So I know it's not very sciency, but I always want to work it and work with somebody what their capacity is.

I'm not sure if you have any experience or studied this area, but have you worked or researched blood flow restriction training and like people wearing BFR bands, things like a Kaatsu band during their training, especially people that have injuries and cannot lift heavy.

Have you had, have you done any research on that?

So I'm, I'm very familiar with the, with the concept, the use of it.

I haven't done personal research but one thing that's intriguing to me and I haven't seen this yet is one of the symptoms of menopause transition for a lot of women is joint pain.

And then the idea of oh, I have to lift heavy.

Well, we want you to lift heavy if you can, but if there's joint pain, BFR and maybe you have experience with this, that's a great way to use much lighter weights.

But you get kind of the same, a lot of the same hypertrophic benefits of using heavier weight.

So it's just that conceptually it makes sense to me.

I, I actually have a Katsu band and I've been using it for almost a year.

I personally don't wear it at the gym, but I, I use it actually when I am not working out.

So when I'm just walking around doing things around the house because I have a very sedentary job like sitting in front of a computer.

So I try to stay active and when I'm walking around or doing something, then I wear my Kaatsu bands, and it gives me a little workout, even though I'm not physically pushing myself.

And it's a nice way to maintain your muscle mass.

I think it's really ideal for people that have an injury or older people that literally just cannot do injuries.

Any heavier physical activity.

Going back, just to wrap up this conversation, you've been working with your wife.

Has her situation turned around?

Did she lose the weight?

Tell us what happened to her.

What are the things that worked for her, didn't work for her?

Is there anything unique that you noticed, like differences between men and women that, that you learned so far?

Well, I think the one thing that I learned personally was my wife's probably not a lot different than a lot of other women.

And I, it makes me sad to know that a lot of women are suffering and, and they don't want to share that.

They don't want to talk about it.

So that's, that's sad that because again, I, I, we have a very good marriage.

And for whatever reason, my wife just didn't want to talk about it.

And that led to her having to suffer a lot longer.

Because once I became aware then I was, I didn't know about hormone replacement therapy.

I was influenced, I think, by the Women's Health Initiative study, even though I didn't know about that study at the time, but I'm like, oh, what about breast cancer?

So I spent a lot of time doing, you know, research and then came to the conclusion, no, HRT is the right decision.

I just wish I would have came to that conclusion earlier so that, that's the one thing that's been impressed upon me, just an awareness of some women.

Not every, some women are going to go through this with no problem.

Some are going to have a very bad time.

And I just don't.

I, I think my message on this is one, the most important thing is embrace a fitness lifestyle.

So let's, that's your best defense against all of this.

Second thing is be open to hormone replacement therapy.

Some women can't take it for various reasons, but if you, if you are able to take it, be aware that it is an option.

Don't just automatically say no to it, which happens a lot.

I'm learning, like, a lot of women are just, nope, I'm not doing it.

And I don't know, I don't know where that comes from.

Maybe there's shame or stigma attached to taking hrt.

I'm not sure and we're doing a menopause fitness survey now, and we are asking some of those questions.

And the last thing that we didn't talk about was, and this goes back to the importance of, or the goal of trying to not gain body fat and to maximize muscle mass is the importance of sleep.

So if you're sleep deprived, it is really working against your body's ability to lose fat and to build muscle.

And one thing that this is, like progesterone is so helpful if you're not sleeping and you're not on progesterone.

That seems to be very, very beneficial for, in a lot of cases, to help help people not be sleep deprived, to help their ability to sleep throughout.

The night, especially the oral progesterone taken in the evening is probably the best practice.

Is your wife health turned around?

Is she feeling better?

Did she make some progress?

The first thing, once we decided hormone replacement therapy was the right decision, as soon as she started progesterone, it was an immediate change in quality of life.

Immediate.

Just again, why didn't we do that earlier?

Waited a little while, started estradiol.

So right now I think we're still in the phase of adjusting, getting it.

And that's another thing I've learned.

It's never just one.

It's rarely, I guess, never one and done.

Take it, take notes, make adjustments, feel better, worse.

So it's, it's kind of a process.

So, yeah, energy levels turned around, outlook turned around.

Body composition definitely has been able to gain back muscle.

She just recently told me, hey, I'm, I'm definitely stronger than I've been for the last few years.

Lost some weight, not all of the weight.

So that's, that's actually feeding into like what my research lab is going to be looking at is just different types of diets.

So hormone replacement theory put her in a position where she actually had some level of energy to work out.

So, yes, definitely was helpful with, with her body composition, but not to premenopausal levels is what she would say.

She would say, yes, I am not back to where I was, you know, in my mid-40s, but an improvement.

Yes.

Yeah, I want to encourage her to stay on the path because there is light at the end of the tunnel.

There's a lot of pieces that need to fit into place to put your health back together.

It really, I would say to her that the hormone replacement therapy is one piece of that puzzle and it's good that she's starting to get that dialed in.

As you said, it Takes sometimes years to get that and get it to the right level.

And also, as you are getting a little bit older, you may need to start increasing some of your estradiol dose too.

So women will need that adjusting.

Unfortunately, as you said, it's not one and done.

You have to be patient.

And so much of it also connected to adrenal function in women.

And managing stress is one of the biggest piece of this puzzle.

And until you figure that part out, it's very hard to change the body composition.

So adrenal health, it's.

No matter how much you work out or not work out, I think increasing your overall energy capacity and mitochondrial function is what then allows you to start to have the energy to go to the gym, lift heavier.

It's sort of.

It's such a domino effect, like everything is connected to everything.

And that's why sometimes putting the puzzle back together take some time and patience.

But it can be done.

It's been done for many women, and I really encourage her to stay on path.

And I give you kudos for doing all this work.

And now that you have this new focus area, I don't think you realize how much of you opened a floodgate because your wife is just one of millions of women suffering with this issue.

We cannot escape it.

We all have to go through this transition.

You, like it or not, you're gonna get older and you're gonna go into menopause, and it's just.

It.

It is what it is.

But you can still get your life back, and you can still have a good quality of life and get your body composition back on track.

It just takes a little bit more work than it was in your 30s and 40s.

Bill, thank you so much for spending time with us.

And how can people find you, follow you, and connect with you?

Yeah, so the easiest place would be Instagram.

So that's.

Bill Campbell, Ph.D. is my handle.

I produce a research review where I focus.

I review research solely dedicated to building muscle and losing body fat.

So that's at my website, Bill CampbellPhD.com and lastly, I started a YouTube series on menopause fitness, and my YouTube channel is Bill Campbell, PhD.

Thank you so much for tuning in.

This is Maya.

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