On today's episode, we speak with a go-to therapist on setting boundaries, Monque Williamson. If you've ever been ghosted, considered ghosting someone in your life, or want to get better at establishing clear bounderies with people in your life, then this is the episode for you.  Through her experiences as a psychotherapist, she took an interest in encouraging others to try new paths to find balance and improve their overall wellness. Over the past 8 years, Monique has impacted hundreds of lives as a therapist and CEO of Enriched LLC.  

Join us as we talk personal rules of engagement, minconceptions about boundary setting, and what to do instead of going full ghost on people in your life.

What to Listen For:

• 1:47 Identify personal rules of engagement
• 2:45 What are the most difficult boundaries to set?
• 5:45 Strategies for boundaries when it’s an unfamiliar practice
• 7:47 Monique's framework for setting boundaries with families 
• 15:00 Misconceptions about boundary setting
• 17:41  What is the difference between a boundary and not wanting to take a certain action
• 19:27 Tips on how to avoid overexplaining when you want to say no to someone
• 21:42: Monique’s path to establishing boundaries
• 33:10: When boundaries become the need to cut someone off
• 35:05: What is sunsetting and using it instead of ghosting
• 37:00: Recommendations for sunsetting relationships

Where to Find Monique

Facebook: www.facebook.com/becomingenriched

Instagram: www.instagram.com/becomingenriched

Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/moniquewill1

Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/becomingenriched

Books + Resources Mentioned:

The Life Changing Magic of Nor Giving A F*ck and Get Your Sh*t Together by Sarah Knight

TEDx Talk: The Magic of Not Giving A F***

The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz

Daring Greatly by Brene Brown

The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho

Stay In Touch With Joyfully Black

Subscribe to our email list: www.joyfullyblk.com

Follow on Instagram: @joyfullyblk

Hey Monique, I am so happy to have you on the show today.

Thank you. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

So, today we are joined by Monique Williamson, Selman, and Monique has a unique ability to see the big picture, hone in on necessary changes and then spark a desire for others to begin their journey to better wellness. Well, it's a good thing that her career is as a psychotherapist. And so she really took an interest in encouraging others to try new paths to find balance and improve the overall wellness. And over the past eight years, Monique has impacted hundreds of lives as a therapist and CEO of enrich LLC. Now Monique knows firsthand that finding your line is a path long traveled but a path that's easier when not traveled alone. And she wants everyone to know that the detours along the way are inevitable, but learning from them are our best option, which is why she's here today, y'all. So as she knows is when we move towards our brightest purpose, we create a better world not just for ourselves, but for everyone else. And we have a duty to continue to inspire others for good. So I'm so delighted to be joined by you today. Monique, welcome through. Yes,

absolutely. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me

Awesome, awesome. So I know you are all about, we're talking about boundaries today. And you know, for the past, I don't know, a couple of months or so maybe since 2020. pandemic, after pandemic years, we'll say boundaries have really emerged as one of the top health buzzword mental health buzzword within the tech, I'd say past five years, like a high during the pandemic. So can you walk us through different types of boundaries? Because I know there's like emotional financial, and folks just kind of put them all together? What are the different types?

Yeah, so honestly, I don't I wouldn't even say that it's necessarily different types of boundaries. It's just boundaries are the rules that you have for your own wellness in life, and in the different areas that you interact in, right. And so you'll have boundaries at work, and you can't call those work boundaries. But right, it's the way that you want people to treat you at work, right? Especially if you are potentially in a leadership position, right? A person of color leadership position, a woman in a leadership position, right? And so there's ways that you expect people to speak with you and letting them know that, hey, you know, actually, I'd like to be addressed as Miss Williamson, right, or miss Selman, now that I'm married, right.

I'm working on it. But you know, like being just being very clear about the ways that you would like people to address you, when it comes to family, which honestly, I would say are the hardest boundaries to set, especially with our loved ones, but it's just having very clear communication about Hello, like, No, I'm so sorry. But like, I do not want this to happen, right? I don't want to be spoken to this way or right. Like, this makes me uncomfortable. I'm going to leave, right. And I'm very, very strong about the fact of like, boundaries are not boundaries, if you do not enforce them, right. Anything without enforcement is just a suggestion. And so I'm always very clear to people, like do not set a boundary if you don't plan to enforce it, right? Just tell people that you don't like this thing. And right, we let them make that decision afterwards. But if we don't enforce we don't have boundaries.

Oh, that is that is really good. You're saying so a boundary is only a boundary if it's enforced. Other than that, it's a suggestion. Yes. That that is that is very interesting. And so what you touched upon, like, some of the most difficult boundaries are with family members. And you know, sometimes I do notice like a lack of boundaries stemming from like the sense of unworthiness or needing to be accepted or feel like you like the answer to a request must be yes in order to be successful or feel like you're fitting your feeling role. How would you say you see this manifest and like otherwise, let's say successful driven women who are wondering why they're feeling resentful and drained How do you see that showing up for them?

Yeah, so I have this idea or this theory, right? Um, that without boundaries, you will not always but very likely have low self worth. People who have low self worth, don't feel that it is worth it to write enforce boundaries that like they You're allowed to have, right? Like, they don't feel that they are worthy enough to say no, right? They don't feel that they have enough power in themselves like, Well, why would I? Or how could I? Or? Right? Like, what makes me so special that I would be able to tell them? No, when everyone else says yes to them? And so being able to stand up and say like, right, I mean, that's enough, right? That's more than enough to say like, No, I'm not going to do this right. To our parents, to our grandparents to right, siblings, husbands kids, especially kids, right. Um, and so yeah, like I would say, it's very much and like, how do we see ourselves and how successful right? Are we able to be in the communication of right, the things that we want?

Yeah. And, really, that really makes me think of one of my favorite quotes from Brene. Brown. And she says Garin, you may have heard this yourself daring to set boundaries is about having the courage to love ourselves, even when we risk disappointing others. And so how can someone practice exercising, setting boundaries, even when it's a muscle they rarely use or never use? Because of that fear?

Yeah. So in treatment, I give people like smaller exercises before they start launching into setting boundaries with family. And so some of those, like smaller exercises is just marking three hours within the week, as read in your calendar, right? Make it completely read, and you cannot move them, right. And you get to choose right each week, week to week, what hours you want to set. But those are the set hours that if anyone asks you to do something, if anyone, right, even if there's a doctor's appointment, right? If anything needs to be set, right? We're saying no to everything that tries to infringe upon that our right and this could this could be Sunday at 11am. Right? If you just want to go to bedside Baptists, and you just know, that's right. That's what you plan to do on Sunday, then that's what we're gonna do, right? And we're gonna Oh, I'm so sorry, I can't attend this birthday party. But I hope that you have a wonderful time, right, really learning how to say no, because we have prioritized our own time. Even if you don't have anything to do for that read our right? We're just saying no, because I want to do nothing I want to read I want to like eat some snacks, right? Like, that is plenty of reason to tell someone that you don't want to go.

Yeah, I love I love that strategy around marking time and like your calendar when you could be doing something or could be doing even painting your nails or looking at a law. But that's your time. What other strategies do you think folks could implement to start to practice that muscle?

Yeah, so um, honestly, I have people will sometimes get on the internet and just get comfortable with saying their own opinions, right. And so that is going on Twitter posting things that they feel and think about stuff, right? The more we get comfortable saying contrary opinions, the more comfortable we will be with great giving contour news, like no, I will not do something. Other ways that you could practice setting boundaries is okay, so I have a whole system that I actually teach people to do with their family. I wish I had my notebook, but I'm away from home. But right, so this is also a tangent. So if I need to come back, let me know. But when it comes to setting boundaries with families, right, um, typically, you have to prep your family for this, right? Like, this is not something especially if your family does not do boundaries will, right like there. It's just right, we come over each other's house, we do whatever, we're very close, right? I'm from a very close family. So boundaries definitely have to be something that right we practice and exercise. But right from my experience setting boundaries, particularly with my mom, it was very much one you have to get buy in, right, that is where it starts, right? Just having conversations with this person about boundaries, right Lumina. Like yeah, like I've been thinking about this, that it's something I need to do in life, right? asking that person do they have boundaries? How do they say no to people, etc. Right and getting the buy in of like, yes, you should say no, you should do this right boundaries are a good thing. And then boom, we help them right and that's step number one, you're gonna hook them in. Then step number two is keeping them involved in the process of you setting boundaries elsewhere, right so maybe at work maybe with like friends maybe like oh, yeah, like I was really uncomfortable saying no to like this friend, but like, you know, maybe you and that person has something to do like, Oh, but I knew that we said that we're gonna go to get our nails done. And so I told him, I wasn't gonna go and I'm like, Oh, thank you so much. Like, I appreciate that. I'm like laying his boundaries. Great. Right? For buying right. You want them to continue to see how this improves your life. So that when and it always will the time that they want to breach your boundaries. We just kind of then have I already set up this foundation where we've talked about it, we have conversations about it, they understand it, they have supported you through it. And so now it's so you remember, we were talking about boundaries, like, I'm actually not going to be able to do this with you, I'm going to be going here, right? And so and if they get upset, it was like, I know, right? I know, this is difficult. It's hard for me to, but I really do want to continue that boundaries work I'm doing and I have to do boundaries everywhere, not just in some places. And typically, right, if you have fairly healthy, right family members, that is not normal. It's like, I don't like it. But fine. If you have more female members who may be right are a bit more unreasonable, right family members who have mental health concerns from members who are actively disruptive in your life, that is not always the easiest path to travel, and there are some extra steps to it. But like for just general normal setting families, setting boundaries with families that reset processes normally, like the easiest way to go about it. It does take time.

Yeah, no, no, absolutely. It sounds like that process is all about really priming your loved ones with how you establish boundaries with other people. So by the time you deal with them. They're like, Oh, that's what this is.

Exactly. And even still, like when you're doing this, it will naturally rub off on them. I have a member or sorry, a client who I'm currently working with. And that was one thing that I had been working on with her was priming their mother, right to do all this stuff. And then another mom came back to them was like, I set a boundary with somebody and she's like, Oh, my God, good job, Mom, you know. And so it becomes a collective because like, as we heal, right healed people heal people. I'm like, very convinced by this, right? And so when they see these good things happening in your life, you're able to like stand up for yourself, you feel more confident, but you know, naturally, people want that as well.

Yeah, yeah. So we have people who struggle with setting boundaries, so maybe porous or oversharing, you know, afraid to say no. But then we also what about folks who have rigid boundaries, who are who are just closed off, they don't want to ask for help. They're really protective of personal information. And like avoidant of those close relationships, how can those folks have rigid boundaries of just because then I often wonder about this, because I hear the conversation, like I'm setting my boundaries, and then a person will just go goes to us like, well, what? So how does a person who, you know not, you know, has people like overcorrect? Yeah. So how to folks find that that happy medium where they're so used to saying yes, and they're just like, No, I'm saying no to everyone. Where's that happy Medium?

so it depends. That's so hard. Because sometimes I think people, I think that overcorrection is necessary, honestly, because you need to get comfortable to saying No, in all cases, right that like, just go just no crazy. I think that overcorrection is necessary, because then you start to recognize, well, like, Okay, some of the things that I've been saying no to did bring me joy, right. And I miss those things. Right? And so then you are able to start seeing like, Okay, well, I've pulled a lot of things back, right? What do I want to start adding back in. And so I don't like as long as that overcorrection doesn't last for forever, I actually don't think it's necessarily a terrible thing. When it does become unhealthy as typically when you're not willing to work with the people who you who you love and value, right? Like, if it's just randoms, and we don't care, but if it's your family, and your friends, right, your partner, your kids, like those are the people who do want to actively work with. And so kind of like coming to an agreement, I always say, like, there's no rule of thumb when it comes to giving, right like it's whatever you feel not just comfortable with, right, but not resentful for. Right. Because a lot of times people will give and give and give because like that's just their way. And then like the look up a year 236 20 years later and be very resentful that all they did was give to everyone else and like never got anything for themselves.

Mm hmm. Yeah, no, that's so true. And I think the collective pause that people had during the active pandemic year starting in 2020 allowed them to reflect on how much they had been given. Yeah, if they were over giver because as you know if you're a giver people willing to take you know, oh my gosh, listen, they will find you takers will find you easily if you are a giver. That's why I feel very strongly about boundaries because people, people who are giving need the more right because there's the are so willing that like you, it's it's hard for them to realize, like that one

person has has sucked up so much of the resources that they have to give rather than like them being able to spread that amongst right everyone in their lives.

Mm hmm. No, that's so true. What would you say would be like the biggest misconception about boundary setting that you would like to dispel

oh my god, like that just everything gets to be a boundary. Like there's so many things that are boundaries that are not boundaries. So, and like they are, but some things are just like very small, like, and this is going to be very random, but I follows Reddit. That's called Are You the aihole. And right, it's wonderful. Therapist, I'm, like, always interested in other people's stories. There was one where it was like a stepmom and her stepdaughter, and then to have two siblings. And the step mom's family had a tradition of, like, all of the sisters will wear something that is the same on their wedding day, right? And she was like, Well, this is my boundary, I don't want to do it. And everyone's like, well, she's allowed to have boundaries, bah, bah. And I'm like, that is completely different than boundaries, right? Because you could warn anklet Yeah, that nobody would see rain that you could, you could tie a pin into your dress, right? You can have a flower in your hair. Like, you could all wear the same bread, right? It's like, things to that nature of like, I just don't want to say we just don't want to, that's fine. That's super fine, right vote to say like, oh, well, I have boundaries. And I just like this is for my mental health and things like that. And it's like, there's a difference between I don't want to and, and yes, sometimes people, like, confuse the two. Yeah. And it's very easy to do. It's super easy to do, because it's like, well, what is the difference between I don't want to and boundaries. And so I will kind of explain where that line sometimes will lie.

I love to hear that line lies because like you I've noticed by some people say this is my boundary here. And you're thinking like, Okay, well shoot. Now I look like the horrible person from this line. It's actually not that big of a deal. But I want to be respectful. And so yeah, so where is that line? Because I think some people are just afraid to say no, I don't want to do that. Because I don't want to look bad and then or vice versa because there are some people who who maybe that was their final straw right? Now they're just they're just saying everything's a boundary because they are so depleted that now they don't want to say yes to anything a bit overcorrection that we talked about.

Yeah. So I always say the boundary like boundaries are the things that protect us right so if right the rules that we are making are not to like protect us to protect our our health or happiness or mental health or well being right then it's likely just a want or desire right and and again for in that case I'm like say you don't like her and you don't want to that's like just fine and like I tell people something like Just Say No rather than pretending that like oh sorry something came up like I don't want to I'm so sorry. I hope you have a great time. I don't want to wait I'm not interested in this and that tradition right but I am down to help you guys go pick out you know what you two would like to wear together you know but like that did not protect her that did not write save her piece that did not like allow her to get self care right? Like that boundary did not give to her right or protect her from anything. That is kind of where that boundary where the line is between an actual boundary and just idle love to write boundaries are to be protective in nature.

Well then that leads me to think about people who just don't know how to use Millis complete sentence they feel like there has to be an explanation.

Yeah, over explaining is so easy to do. And there's a really good TED Talk by I want to say her name is Sarah McKnight if I'm not mistaken, and it's the Magic of Not no it's not the magic not given if that's a book, I think it's called the your excuse my language but f**k budget. And she talks about how to say no without appearing to be a bad person. And it's a very simple explanation of like, thank you if someone's inviting someone to Thank you so much for the invitation. Unfortunately, I won't be able to make it. I hope you have a wonderful time. Right? There's no explanation why I can't make it. There's no explanation of like, what what can I do? How do I make this up to you? Right, I'm so sorry. My nephew's uncle's cousin is getting surgery, and I have to be there, right. And we just started spewing off all these reasons to overreach. Rather than just say, like, thanks so much for thinking about me. Right? I can't come. I hope y'all have fun. Right? Make sure to send pics afterwards.

Yeah. And I think having that language is so helpful. And I just I think, is it Liz Marasco? How we say no matters? Okay, wow, we can definitely, if you remember which one it is, and we can like, include it.

I'll send it to you and then you can put it in the show notes.

Yeah, yeah,yeah, I can put in the show notes. Because some people just need the language. Because they feel they feel awkward saying no, right. But they're like that in the beginning. Now, as time goes on the problem be like No, you know, not able to make it. And we'll leave it at that. But I think having that language, having just some sentences, they can. Okay, no worries, having some sentences that they can say like, like, as you mentioned, like, Oh, thanks so much for thinking of me, or for people who are often asked to do things. Oh, thanks so much for thinking of me. But I'm not able to help at this time. But I'm happy to sometimes I'm happy to help you find someone who is or that something like that.

Yeah. Or if we wait three weeks, right, I will, I'll have a bit more mental space to be able to help you. Like, oh, let me know if you're doing something at this. And that's only if you want to a lot of times people offer things that they don't actually want to give and replay in like replays of attending an event. Don't do that, right? Because you don't want to originally because we were like, Oh, I'm so sorry. I can't come like, if I can help let me know. And then like, oh, yeah, can you go pick up 150 plates and bring them to the event location? Like that is not what I was thinking. Right? And so just being able to say like, leave it at, like, thank you so much. Right? I won't be able to come. I hope you have a good time.

Hmm. So I mean, listen, Monique I know you're the go to girl for setting boundaries even in your own life. So what led you to being an advocate for yourself? Was this model for you? Or this is someone model this for you did you have to learn this on your own?

I had to learn this on my own. So I graduated school early, I skipped a grade. And I went off to college freshly at 17. I think I was like, after maybe four months, I had just I had from 1617. And then I was living in the dorms in school. And my mom was very much or I would say is still very much a helicopter mom, right? Very fantastic mother. Right? Very involved, super good about to her and making sure I got all the resources I needed making sure right, she smoothed the path for me. And that was a place of contention a lot in my life because I'm adventurous, right? Like, I want to do things I want to like fall, I want to scrap my knees, I want to like, go out, I've jumped out of planes. I have written elephants, right? I've flown planes. So she's like, trying to like make everything so easy. And I'm like, Stop, you just have to stop. Like, I mean, I won't learn anything if you keep doing this. And so like that whole system is the system that I created. And that worked with me and my mom, because it was very much a process of like, okay, you have to step back and like how do I get her to understand right like that this is not like a breakup, right? This is very much just like a little bit of distance. So we had a couple of ways to do that. I would do this for her if she knew that that meant cut the umbilical cord so she was

so yeah, there would be a scissors pantomime?

Right and she would jump in like this and she'd be like ok...yep. so it was very much like learned and lived experience always just like we have made it to the Promised Land she's so much better about boundaries we had a conversation about boundaries yesterday when I had to set another one right like I'm very I'm very clear very open Hey like this. This is a hard stop for me please do not do this anymore. Right like I let me explain why this is a hard stop for me just in case there's any confusion. And then I also like let me hear what you got from what I had just said of those boundaries so that way we don't run into this again because very often what we said and what they got are not the same and so it is important to do that little right understanding check at the end. You are because she was not on the same page. I was like oh, let me explain it again.

Yes, yeah. In education they say "let's do a check for understanding." So, how long did it take? How long would you say it took for you to get this point where you're like, Okay, we can kind of joke about it now and build, okay, I can say cut it out a lot like full house.

Um, so let's see how long it takes, honestly, years, right, and like, it's not a it's not a quick process. It's like, I would say, uh, probably it started slow because I was I didn't know what I was doing. And I wasn't therapists yet. But you know, 17 when I was like, alright, you can't call me this much, like only call, like, I'll call you once a week and stuff like that. And if we need to talk in between that, um, I would say, so started 17 We probably the moment in time when I was like, wow, like we have we have hit success was we were on a road trip from I was in school. I was in grad school at this point in Nebraska. And we made a road trip like to South Dakota, all the way to Yellowstone in Wyoming. And I made a reservation with the thing and like, we ended up getting there. Like five o'clock in the morning, the person in there was just terrible. Like he wasn't helpful. And we had had like, other than this, another one, like metaphor that we always used was like, I was like your binged, okay. When I was like, I will call you. I was like, when I need the big guns, I will call in the big guns, but until I call the big guns, you're benched. And so then I was like handling. I was doing stuff. And she was sitting there and I knew she was just like, itching. And then I came back and I explained situation. She was like, Do you want me to do something like Is now the time for the big guns? I said, you know, what, now is the time for the big guns, go get them. And that was exactly the day and I was like, This is it. I was like, This is the life we want it like Yeah. So you know, it's like, but her being able to really just sit there and watch me struggle and like, work through it till seven issues like, do you want this whole? Right like, because normally she would have just jumped in, bowled over me talked over me and like hammered it herself. And so allow letting her give me the time to like work on it was so it mattered to me like that. So like love have just heard letting me do that. And so I was like, so that's probably what's five years? Getting the right

way. And are you only child of the only girl?

I'm only girl. I'm the youngest. I have one older brother.

Okay. And then you're the youngest, so that that makes sense.

Right? Yeah, I was like, I'm a daddy's girl. My mom's a mama's boy. And like, we both have close relationships with both of our parents. So um, yeah, for sure. It. It takes time. It does.

Yes, yes. No, you're absolutely right. It does take time I had to have, oh, not the same conversation, but a similar conversation with some life transitions. And I had said to my mom, like, listen, we're gonna have this discussion or not, if there's certain things that if I feel like it's disrespectful, I'm gonna just say, well, we're gonna have to say, now because the I don't love you, but we're not gonna we're not gonna, you know, engage in that way. You know?

Absolutely. My mom knows. Like, when, when I'm like, very short, and I like we'll just cut and she'll say, she was like, You know what, I really appreciate the way that you like to do, like, respect your boundaries without like, getting mad at me or things like that. Because even during my wedding, like an event was happening, and she didn't like what's happening, but it was like the day of, and not the actual wedding, but like an event. And she called me and she was the point I was like, I was like, so you know, I was like, I don't have the space for this. I love you. I would go and talk to one of the bridesmaids about this, but I'm busy. So I'll talk to you later. And I was like, nope, not doing it. I'm not taking this negativity. It's not mine. Like, right. And so that's what we mean by protecting ourselves. Why are we very much protecting like I had a nice energy. I was like, happy that day. I was like, nope, keep it away. I don't want it right. I was in my bubble. And I wanted to do that. And so that's what that protection looks like.

You know, that's quick. It's something about weddings me because my mother did the same thing my mother did. And I was just like, are you done? Okay.

Weddings are a haze.

I don't know what it is.

They're fun. They're amazing. I love my wedding. I can't wait to renew my vows, but I'm paying somebody to handle all the details.

And you just got married. You're a newlywed!

I am a newlywed. It'd be one year and let next Saturday. Oh, well, I know right? It's crazy.

Look, I was I just saw those pictures and Gosh, man. Time flies!

We're gonna pull them all out again.

That's what's you're supposed to do. Yeah. It's interesting having those those conversations especially because you know, when it's a healthy relationship, we know a healthy relationship. People are overstepping because they love you and they feel like that's their home protection. Yeah, in a way and so sometimes letting them know like, No, you are. You have agency, you know, you're an adult, you're no longer you know, and, and there's other people. Yeah, exactly it is with some people, not every situation but with some people, the overstepping comes from a place of love. And then of course we have the opposite in where some people are. are just out of control. I hate to say toxic because I feel like thatword is so overused.

oh my god, I hate toxic now, I guess it's one of those it's one of the buzz words where now like if you if you throw it at somebody, it kind of it's almost like a read like a scarlet letter. And I'm just like, just because you say it doesn'tmake it true.

No, it doesn't. It doesn't make it true. But no, that's that's great how you were able to see that. And also, not necessarily because someone modeled it for you. But now you're modeling it for people in your own family.

Yeah. Yeah.

So um, what other resources would you recommend for anyone that wants to strengthen this area of their life? You mentioned a TED Talk that will add to the show notes, but there any other resources or books or podcasts other than Joyfully Black that you would like to recommend?

So one of my absolute favorites is The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. It is by far and away, I look, it's a very easy read. It's, it's maybe like 90 pages, 100 page, something like that. Like, it's small, but it is so impactful, like the way that like they've I think about that book on a weekly basis, if not daily basis of just like the way it has changed how I think how I interact with the world, what I think is appropriate, right? The words that I use that I think are appropriate. So that is by far and away one I would definitely recommend everything by Brene Brown. Heavy emphasis on Daring Greatly.

Yep. It's on my bookshelf right here

Nice. Yes, I love she is my career crush, I absolutely love her. everything that she does is just gold. So definitely recommend her. Another book is The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho, I think is very good in terms of, I think it's really good because it helps people recognize that like, going on your own life journey, whether it makes sense or not to people is something to be protected, right? Like, this is what we're going to do like, and I think there are boundaries in that, especially for people who may be like are creatives and they're taking their own path and their parents don't understand, right? Like, people aren't going to like, major in the things that their parents want and really being able to protect that path that you see for yourself. Other books, I have so many. Any about boundary specific? Well, my soon to be book that should be out in 2024, Healthy Selfish, right, patent pending. Um, yes, I'm gonna be Yeah, it'll be out next year. So I'm very excited.

I know.

We'll have to have you back on once it's published, I can get it and we can chat about it.

Yes, I'm very excited. Since I love boundaries this much. And I talk about a lot with clients. And so it's gonna be very much like a practical guide, like, so my explanation for how to set boundaries with family is going to be in there. And then there's going to be a second section about how to set family set boundaries with unhealthy family members. And then oh, and so one thing that we did not talk about, but I think it's super important to mention is like when boundaries become the need to cut someone off? Yes. And so I'll just give a quick list. I know we're almost done. But one thing about it is like when someone is not respecting your boundaries repeatedly, right? They are right. And again, boundaries are to protect us. Right? And so they're not respecting our boundaries multiple times, right, then they are actively hurting us. And so do not take hurt, right? Do not take hurt lightly. Like just even if it's like small little things, right? Death by 1000 cuts is real, right? And a lot of times people are on death by 995 cuts, and they only have a couple more to go. And so I think it's super important that people recognize like, when is it time? Right? And that's a very hard question. It's something for everyone to design. But having in your head of like, this is this is the boundary of like when I recognize I cannot re engage with this person anymore until they until they have made changes. Or right sometimes even if they have made changes sometimes we'd still don't want them right. I feel very strongly about like you can love someone still say goodbye to them. But having really having it in your mind of like, you know, like, this is the line that, you know, I just cannot cross or if like if this behavior continues past blank Day event time right therapy, whatever that might be, then it right, it's time to just separate completely.

Yeah, no, that's really important because yeah, as, as we said, you know, you may have people who respect the boundaries, and you continue and folks who don't yet make the decision to love them from a distance or completely. And that's a that's another area where it could be awkward for people. Because what do you think about folks who just ghost you know? Who may have disrespected boundaries? You think it's worth in ghosting? Or should they have the conversation to be like, hey, you know, I asked you to do this, or to not do this XYZ things, and it continues to happen. So I'm going to have to sort of take a step back from this relationship, or texted back from this friendship or whatever it may be.

Um, so I'm not going to go sing, unless that person is just absolutely raggedy, right there. And I mean, like, Absolutely, I won't even lie to you. If they're absolutely raggedy. I'm like, You don't owe them anything. Right? You don't even know them. Goodbye. And right, but those are like, the extreme cases. In most cases, I actually recommend something called sunsetting. And I'll send this article as well. But really, a sunset is like the alternative to a ghost of right, we're not going to get into a back and forth about this. I'm really just going to tell you my side of the of things of like, thank you so much for being in my life. Oh, by the way, not back and forth, meaning you I mean, like in the instance.

you right now like, oh, wait, no, sorry, I'm on your podcasts (laughter), I do want to go back and forthwith you. No, but like with that person that you want to say bye to where it's really just saying like, hey, you know, I'm like, I really appreciate the time that we've had together, right? I've learned so much from you. And like, we've had really good times, however, I'm recognizing that. Right? Where I want my life to go or, or, you know, like, the healthy choices that I'm making. I don't feel that this relationship is adding to that. And so, like, I wish you the best, but I'm just going to write like take a step back. And, I wish you well.And that just being like, Thank you, I appreciate you, but I cannot keep you. Done.

Yeah. Is that is that is that better said via in person? I'm an in person, phone type of person. Plus, I can see people doing that via texts to avoid any awkwardness. What do you recommend?

I think it depends on the closeness of your relationship. If your relationship happens mostly over text, then text would be normal. If your relationship happened, I'm an in person friend. Right? So like, you're not going to talk to me unless we're in person. So I'm not going to have hard conversations to you unless we're in person as well. Right. And so I think it depends on the medium that you in that friend normally communicate.

Yeah, that completely makes sense. I Yeah. And the reason why I asked is because so many times I see what try to have crucial conversations via text. And I often shake my head thinking so many things get lost in tone, you're better off just sitting voice notes. Honestly, if you don't want to text, don't want to have like a INLA in real time phone conversation or video chat, voice, you know, voice doing voice notes, or at least inflection. You could be really heartfelt but your tone comes across as dry and flat. Or whatever the person may perceive. And you know, perception is a person's reality.

Yeah, absolutely. And like, that's why I'm an in person pranks. I hate texting. I don't like texting. Actually. That's why I'm not very active on the internet. I don't like things that aren't communicated to me directly. Because it can get lost in translation. But typically, like if your medium is text, like you have learned that person's communication style, you guys have went back and forth. You kind of know it, like me and my cousin, who I'm quite close with, right? If something's going wrong, we can text because we sound like we both have an attitude. Like we're very because and not because we do but because we're very direct. So like, it sounds like oh, well, what are you doing? Well, I'm only going to this place and it's like, well, well then No, I'm only going so and so we were like, Let's Marco Polo, and then we're like, Oh, are you doing this? Yeah, I'm going here. I'm like, okay, great. I'll see you there and like, you know, so it's, you have to know the person that you're talking to you.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, in real life, the root is all about communication. And in digging through the uncomfortability of having these conversations in order to make sure that you are mindful and hopefully are modeling some positive behavior for the people in your life as well?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We always want to help, right the next person because that person will be healthier to help someone else.

Mm hmm. Absolutely. Well, I have so enjoyed you being here today, there is a quote that I share with all of my guests and always ask them to answer it for me. So this quote is by Jean Bolean, and it's when you discover something that nourishes your soul and brings you joy, care enough about yourself to make room for it in your life. So I've got to ask you, Monique, what nourishes your soul so much that you absolutely create space for it?

Adventure and travel. I love travel. I love doing new things I love to discover I'm like, if curious, George was a person, it would be me. Think for so like, you know. It's just been it's just been something that really feeds me I get cranky if I don't do it. So often. My husband knows this. Like, I need to kind of be in new new situations, new adventures, try new things eat new foods. Right? I feel really nourished by learning about others. And so yeah, for sure. Traveling and adventures is always going to be number one.

Oh, that's that's Oh, yeah. No, I'm the same way. What travel Do you have upcoming then?

Well, I'm going to Temecula, California, which is like a wine country For my cousin's wedding. I'm going to Asia next year or at the end of the year. So we'll be going to Bali in Bangkok and potentially Singapore. Oh, we just got back from Nigeria at the end of last year, so you know, hopping around.

Yes, yes. And it's always good to have things to look forward to also Yeah, yes, yes. Yes. Well, anyway, thank you so much again with me for sharing your time with this this today on this episode and I'll be sure to add those notes in the in the those resources that you shared in the show notes and if folks want to stay in touch with you. How can they connect?

Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram at Becoming Enriched. I am also on my instagram facebook and pinterest at becoming enriched

Okay, okay Pinterest.I'm becoming a Pinterest girl mostly for the most part hair and fitness. I will have to check you out on Pinterest as well.

I have a lot of Pinterest boards. I actually I what I really enjoy Pinterest so it's like crafts, there's like there's a new Tea Party one that's coming out that's gonna be yes. If you want to do a tea party. There's a whole themed board meal planning boards. Yeah.

Oh, awesome. Well, that is so good. Well, thank you so much Monique. It was so great speaking to you.

Yeah, You too. Talk to you later!

I'll talk to you later!

Bye!