What comes to your mind when you hear something like storytelling for business? Are you envisioning someone in professional attire reading bedtime fairy tales to C-suite executives dressed as babies being put down for their afternoon nap? Well... if you weren't, you probably are now. Of course, this is not what storytelling for business is about, as funny as that might be.

My guest on this episode is Sophie Wadsworth. Sophie is an executive coach who is teaching people the power and value of stories in their professional lives. Sophie shares how you can weave stories into your communication without being a professional storyteller. The power of this is it can help us to be more relatable, to drive change and to develop magnetic leadership.

In this episode:

• Why it's worth taking time to reflect
• How to find the stories you already have
• Knowing how much to reveal about yourself
• Why you should consider your challenges
• How to help an audience to go with you in a story
• How your stories make you more magnetic and charismatic

Sophie shares her book recommendation of Talk Like TED by Carmine Gallo. Having read it myself, I think it is well worth checking out, even if you have no intention of ever taking to the stage with a TED talk. If you'd like to check it out too, here's the link: https://amzn.to/3vRriif

If you'd like to connect with Sophie, you can find her on LinkedIn and let her know that you heard her on Speaking Influence. linkedin.com/in/sophie-wadsworth-99368073

If you'd like to stay up to date with all that is going on with Speaking Influence and also read additional articles, get access to video content and invites to events for people looking to build professional authority and become powerfully persuasive communicators, you can subscribe to my Podfluencer Weekly newsletter on LinkedIn using this link https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/podfluencer-weekly-6882642444815519744/ and if you'd like to know my top 5 influence & persuasion books, you can get access to my FREE PDF here: https://bit.ly/3wbc3jh See you next time.

Did you enjoy the show? Did you learn anything new or useful? If you did, then the best way to show your appreciation is by sharing the show to your online network. Tag me and I'll give you a shout out on an upcoming episode. Leave a review and I'll read it out on the show.

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Mentioned in this episode:

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Welcome to the show.

My name is Johnny Ball.

This is speaking influence at least for now.

So for those of you who have been treating them regularly, you may be

aware that there are some changes coming up on the show and a more about

those in just a moment, but this is the influence and persuasion show that

is really all about helping you build professional authority and become a

powerfully persuasive communicator.

And whilst we're on that journey, Also helping you pick up some of the tips

and tricks that are going to help you be able to defend yourself against the

weapons of influence and persuasion being used against you, and also learning

how to use those weapons in an ethical way for your life and your business.

Now I have mentioned some changes coming up in the show.

The name is going to be changing, and I'll tell you more about that nearer the time.

And some of the focus of the show is going to be narrowing a bit more and whilst we

will still be having great conversations about influence and persuasion with

experts from various fields, a lot of the focus is going to be narrowing into

building influence and authority and becoming more powerfully persuasive

communicators through podcasting, whether as hosts, whether as guests, whether

as marketers or other ways that you may be able to think of to use and leverage

podcasting for your professional growth.

We're going to stay very focused on the business side of influence and persuasion

and helping you to build and grow your business, your authority, and to become

a recognized expert in your area.

This week on the show, we're going to be talking about storytelling.

And my guests for that is an executive coach who has been helping other

coaches understand the power of stories in their work and in their

communication skills to be able to be

better communicators and more effective with how they deliver and

also in understanding ourselves, her name is Sophie Wadsworth, I know

you're going to enjoy this show.

I have had some amazing guests recently, and you might want to

check out some of those recent shows with people like Chris Ducker, Mr.

Youpreneur himself, Daniel Tolson, Adam Adams from the podcast on podcasting,

Alex Sanfilippo from Pod Match and more besides.

I've already started recording some of the shows that are going to be under the

new focus and new brand of this podcast.

And I know that not everybody is going to love the change that's coming across.

So as we make those changes, some of you may love some of the content that's

more about influence and persuasion still, and not so much the stuff

that's going to be more focused on the podcast side of helping you to do that.

And that's absolutely fine.

Hope there's still going to be plenty that will keep you wanting to tune in.

For some of you, the podcast stuff is going to be really great for

helping you to really focus in on building your professional authority

and becoming an amazing communicator.

Whichever path you want, and I hope you'll stay with us for future shows

And if you'd like to contribute to the show in some way, shape or

form, please get in touch with me.

My website is present influence.com.

You can find all of my contact information there, and you'll often find me hanging

around on Twitter and Instagram as well, which can be great places to contact me.

You're probably already thinking hurry up and get on with the show,

so I'm going to do exactly that and hope that you will enjoy today's

episode of speaking influence.

Welcome to speaking influence.

Now we are revisiting some territory to some degree because we have,

but I haven't done it for a while.

We do sometimes like to talk about storytelling and using stories in your

inference and persuasion as part of how you communicate about what you do and

how you entertain and engage an audience.

We have someone with us today who is going to help us be able to do that even

better than we may have done before.

And become better at communicating through stories and more besides,

well, she works as an executive coach.

Her name is Sophie Wadsworth.

Please.

Welcome to the show Sophie Wadsworth.

Thank you so much, Johnny.

Great to be here.

Great to have you on the show and I'm looking forward to the

conversation that we're going to have.

But before we get into talking more about storytelling and a bit more

about what you do with that story, with storytelling in your own professional

life, I'd like to know if there's somebody who you particularly look up to

respect and admire for their influence and persuasion and for how they use it.

And why.

well, most recently it's a thought leader and coach

wouldn't, you know, named Dorie Clark.

And I find her someone who has wisdom each time I read her posts and her

books speaks with great integrity.

And she's super real.

Even though she's very accomplished.

So that's the first person who comes to mind.

Fantastic say, is that someone who you try to be more like, do you

model the kind of way that she shows.

you know, I do in certain ways, Johnny, because

I find her very consistent and energetic in her writing.

So it's like, I can count on this voice reaching out to me in

this steady way, challenging me, but also saying I've been there.

Here's how I've been there and even sharing anecdotes.

I love stories.

So have a sense of she's traveled road.

She's way ahead of me.

And I can build some of my own path how she's navigated.

Yeah, some tough stretches.

And yeah.

Had a lot of think ability to learn from experience along the way.

So admire that and hope to do more of that myself.

Great.

I guess it's important to have these people who are already further along

in the game, who we can look up to and follow in their footsteps and then

find our path beyond that as well.

That's a great answer.

And I would like to know if you work as, as, uh, as an executive

coach, and so somebody might be thinking well you more, where does

storytelling fit in for somebody who's working as an executive coach.

Where does it fit in?

What, how do you use that in the kind of work that.

well, it shows up in a variety of ways.

I think one of the ways it shows up is the story that we're telling

ourselves of where we are our career.

as an executive coach, I am inviting people to reflect on

their journey to the here and now why they do the work that they do.

And some of those peak experiences, the highs, and very importantly, the lows that

they've navigated along the way, because the story that we tell ourselves is

extremely powerful how we are connecting with the people that selling to, that.

we're coaching.

And that we're working with, if we're leading a team.

So that's the first way is what's the story in our own head our journey.

So to speak this moment when we're in this conversation,

Yeah.

So how do we identify our story?

Well, that's a big question.

Yes.

And and that's something where it's very helpful to have a

coach to guide you along the way.

I'd say first it's taking the time to reflect, to write,

to record into your phone.

However you like to explore it, what your life has been

what stories stand out for you.

If you think about moments of crisis and moments of great

accomplishment and just let yourself write them, type them, speak them.

actually a very good beginning.

And would say more specifically, you can think about what are the stories

you tend to tell to your staff, to your colleagues, you know, when you're sitting

around, what do you tend to say about, like, what are your war stories about

the trials and tribulations so far, and think about the nature of those.

And who you were as a character in that story.

That's a great starting place.

It's not necessarily about, oh, I need to go figure out some story.

I've never told often we've got these vignettes we already are telling, and

it's a matter of excavating those and amplifying them and understanding them

in the larger narrative of our lives.

Yeah.

Do you find that in some of the cases where you're working on this sort of

thing with somebody that they may be, feel reluctant to talk about some of

those deeper challenges that they've had in life, because perhaps they

don't want to share those stories with people who they may be see

them as being one particular thing.

And that these stories of where they've maybe failed or crashed and burned

or whatever else has come before, but that might change the way people think

about them or make them seem less than they hope that people see them as

being, have you ever come across that?

Oh, sure.

mean, I think we all have feelings about our stories and how they might

be received lead us to be anxious.

And it's hard to know how much do we pull back the curtain, right?

How much do we share with whom?

So some of it is a question of confidence and.

Trust that this is a valuable way to share who you are with other people.

And some of it is knowing your audience and sort of understanding, well, who are

they and am I telling this story to them?

what is it that I hope that they'll take away from it?

Yeah.Yeah.

Think knowing the purpose of sharing the stories first.

And having clarity about how we want to make the audience feel on the other

side of the screen or the table is a great starting point because when

we're clear, oh, this is the experience that I want to give them by sharing.

These elements from my life.

Well, then we've got someof the recipes started for r what we're going to share.

Right.

And just say, okay, if I want them to feel this way, if I want them

to have these thoughts about who I am or who my organization is then

how am I going to get them there?

Well, I have to be a bit vulnerable.

Right.

And about what comfort level is with vulnerability and how much

Mm.

share?

I guess communicate that experience and what are you comfortable with?

Cause you gotta be comfortable, right?

Nobody wants to see or hear you know, go out on the ledge and then, throw one

foot over the ledge while we're talking.

It's just makes us all uncomfortable.

So some of it is also knowing what's your edge, so to speak

and you can take a small step.

Yeah.

right?

Don't have to do the whole confessional.

In your work then as an executive coach, where do stories coming?

Can you give an example of how you utilize them when you're working with.

Sure.

Well, I can give one example of working with someone a keynote and they're trying

to figure out how do they communicate the story, the journey of business.

And I try to find out what are those moments along the journey that we're

really challenging and choose one that they might be comfortable sharing.

And then I ask them to of go into their imaginations so I can invite all

of you who are listening out there to do the same right now is think, Okay.

what's a little crisis.

Maybe from yesterday, maybe from the past year, you know,

there've been a few, right.

And go into that in your mind's eye.

Like you're watching a movie.

And try to see and hear, and sense all that's going on.

So I try to help the folks that I'm working with.

Go back into that room, back into that felt experience and bring

it alive for them and choose a few details that are going to

Yeah.

it alive for the reader so that the reader can come there with us.

I think that's one of the challenges and the fun in storytelling is that.

It's so vivid to us, it is that movie playing in our head.

We can see it and smell it.

And especially if it was something challenging a big intense

experience, it's very vivid.

And yet the audience isn't going to get it.

If we just say something.

Right.

Like there were these people, we had this conversation, amazing things happen.

that's way I try to coach people to bring us the experience that

you had with those details.

And it doesn't matter so much, which details you choose as long

as they feel authentic and real and help bring the story alive.

I could add that you can have fun with the details and try to pick things

that will reflect someone's character.

Someone in my office that I had never met were wearing a sweatshirt and jeans

and the baseball hat was on backwards, but I could tell right away that they

were no ordinary venture capital kind of.

Gal.

So that paints a picture right there.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Now you work with executives in your coaching and you help them with

things like keynote, as you said, with presentation skills and storytelling.

Why is that in your opinion?

So important for executives and people in high level.

well, it's important because I think when we're talking

about our business and talking about where we want our organization to

go, whatever the mission might be, we need to build trust and relationship

with the people we're talking to.

And so it really does come through speaking one way or another.

That speaking can also be on the page, but we need to give them some idea

of our multidimensionality right.

And that the business has an origin story.

And we have an origin story that, we bring threads from our journey

into the work that we're doing.

Right.

Yeah.

so, you know, if you grew up with a dad who was a

firefighter and a mom who was a middle school teacher in a little community,

That may be a piece of your story.

Um,

I am, you know, running this with hundreds of employees and

what I bring to it every day is that sense of caring about the people where

we live and taking care of people.

And there could even be a story, like a short little story about You know

about a parent, if that was meaningful or about something that you experienced

along your journey to get where you are today and why chose this profession.

that's important because we just yearn to know who we're listening to and

who's leading us or who were inspired by what's behind the inspiration.

What do you think, does that, does that resonate for you?

It does, you know, I've, I've been around public speaking organizations

like Toastmasters for quite some time.

And one of the things that I see most commonly, especially with a lot of

people who do come there to Polish their skills for business is that there is

this tendency to deliver information and.

Pretty much just information and it's impersonal and it's kind of boring.

And the reality is I think that Dan and chip Heath in Made To Stick at this very

well, people just don't remember it.

If you think about any presentation you've ever been to people think, oh no, I'm

going to pack this full of information.

I'm going to deliver all this great stuff at the end of it.

How much are you really going to remember?

But attach a story to it and you will you'll remember.

We remember stories.

We, uh, I think this is Lisa Cron says we're wired for stories

and I think that's very true.

So I know people have fear around sometimes adding stories in, or I've

even had people saying they don't

I really have stories of their own.

How do you know what kind of stories are appropriate and how

would you help a client of yours?

Pull out some stories for a presentation that would be appropriate.

Yeah, that's a wonderful question.

You know, what's coming to mind first and I don't do this often, but it

could be fun to do a little kind of a self 360 where you actually ask

clients, if you're someone who does share anecdotes at times already.

If they remember any of them and if so, which ones So for someone

going forward, who's thinking, Yeah.

what do I share?

What's a fit.

I would ask yourself, what is it that person you're going to be speaking

with or the group you're going to be speaking with really cares about what

is the of journey that they are taking or that you want them to take from

here, the here and now into the future, and try to choose a story that that.

So.

On the one hand I I've coached someone who's searching for a new position

within a very big organization and said, well, you might start this conversation

by framing it with a memory of a time you had in working with this person.

You know, that

you've worked with for years and how in working with that person.

You had this set of challenges and goals and how you got there, so

that the, the story that you kind of open with has that trajectory in it.

On the other hand, you may have situations where you want to share a story.

That's not so serious and businessy to start out.

You know, I did a post recently about

A football star.

So got a son who's 11 and plays soccer as we call it here in the states.

And decided I just wanted to put out there.

The inspiration I had gained from watching the world cup.

This was a few years ago, but it really stayed with me.

Yeah,

well, these people like sports and I'm going

to just find some parallel here between something in the sport.

You know, maybe you can talk about a player that they know in common,

let's say it's Ronaldo, you know, you just say, oh, well this is what I see

out on the pitch when he's out there.

Right.

And so to that's how I roll, you know, in my career.

That's an example of ways to tune into the audience and think it doesn't

have to all be about business at hand.

It can be an analogy, right?

You can use that as a metaphor.

So that would be another way.

And then I guess they would add Johnny that we often have stories happening

to us, and we just don't really take note of it in the rush of our lives.

So some of it is just developing that.

Kind of that lens where we recognize, oh, there's a bit of a story in that

can be some mishap from the day, right?

Or some off-handed conversation, or something that you, you read in the news

and any of that can actually be material

for story.

What matters is that

it really caught hold of you and figuring out why and seeing if

you can share some of that in the context that you're moving into.

yeah, I think when it comes to actually putting together a

presentation or anything that you might be delivering publicly, or

even thinking about telling stories.

It's hard to sometimes come up with those stories on the spot

while you're doing the preparation.

Is it then a good idea to start thinking about collecting your stories

in advance of those things so that you have a resource available for you?

And if so, what's the best way do you think to do that?

Yes, that's a great idea to start and the, how

would depend on who you are and how you capture information in general?

You know, years ago I kept a little tiny notebook in my pocket.

Sounds very old school, but it seemed to work in a very small pen.

You know, I also of course use the note function on my phone

cause that's right at hand.

You might think about a time of day when you reflect on the day

you know or enjoying your morning.

Coffee and a running list.

Some people I know keep it like in an Excel sheet.

One storyteller who I really admire his name is Matthew Dicks.

I know Matthew he's been on the show.

has wonderful.

Oh, I'll have to listen to that episode.

he talks about homework for life and you know, he's very disciplined, so it

works for him to go into this Excel sheet and, you know, he makes himself write

down a certain number every evening, know, and he may not like them all, but

it really sort of builds this muscle.

Right.

I don't know if you talked about that.

But you know, that any of us can do.

It's just about finding the container and making it then lo and behold,

you have all these bits and pieces and there's some gems in there.

No doubt.

So I would just say making it a practice one way or another, you

also can build it into a staff.

So I work with both businesses and nonprofits.

And what I found as an executive leader in the nonprofit space is building in

questions about stories to ask people who are out in the field is very powerful.

That it's just almost ritual that in the meeting we check in.

So from the past week or the past month, you know, what are some highlights of

the interactions that we had with the people we're serving and just sort of.

Go around the group and collect them that way.

Cause it's hard to find time.

Right.

And we always have big

Yeah,

but it's a matter of how do you just embed it in what you're doing?

Or in one-on-one conversations?

Tell me my point?

I liked that I liked the idea of encouraging other

people to share their stories.

And I think there's a lot of power in that because people like to be

heard and people that they maybe have the stories in their head, but

don't pay much attention to them.

So getting to share them and actually being heard on that,

create some recognition and yeah, hopefully some insight for people

and hopefully stories to use too.

In the way that you do with executives.

I was wondering like a lot of the people who change their show, perhaps coaches,

speakers, trainers, or maybe work in those sorts of environments as well.

But if you are doing something like an online presentation or course or program,

how might you incorporate or weave stories into what you do in a way that's

going to entertain, engage and educate.

Great question because we are so much in this virtual world.

You know, one thing I'll share that I find myself saying more to clients lately

is help the audience with you when you are heading into the land of story.

Even if the story is short, give them a little.

Invitation.

you might pause in what you're saying and take a breath and say, so now I want

to share a moment I had in the depths of COVID in and you let there be another

breath and you let people settle in.

Even if it's going to be a short story that will change up the.

And

help them Listen differently than if you just keep going at the pace you've

been going and slip the story in.

And then of course, the wisdom that everyone whostory knows as wellws

as well as that you want to drop them into the middle of the action.

if you can, if it fits right.

So think about how you're going to drop the audience into the

middle of the action of your story.

And the other thing is, invite them to themselves on something that

is along the lines of the story.

You're going to tell, think back to last year, think back to five years

ago, where were you just to get their brains rolling a little differently than.

That passive listening.

I think that's one of the challenges of being here on the screen is that you don't

have the body language and the atmosphere, the shared atmosphere that you're in.

how do we bring more attention, I suppose?

How do we bring more?

Wakefulness into the conversation and it's by changing up and it's by

asking a question or inviting them to come along with us in some way.

Yeah.

silence can do that.

And I think a signal like you know, let me tell you about a time when,

and I think dropping people in the middle of the action with that detail

that brings them into the moment.

Those

Yeah.

Yeah.

I like that.

I like that theme.

The communication side is really important.

I, I feel, uh, stories are a great way to help people feel more connected to

you and remember more of what you're talking about and also change up the

energy and pacing of what you talk about so that it stays engaging interactive.

And these are, these are all things we, we touched on.

When somebody comes to you, I imagine that they're thinking, well, I want to be, I

want to be as good as you are doing that.

I want to be a really cool communicator and speaker and

be able to tell, tell stories.

What's the very first thing that you do with a client who comes to you wanting to

improve their presentations and keynotes.

Well, I think the first question is, is is your end goal?

Where do you want this speaking better storytelling to take you?

Because the answer to that will how I coach the person, right?

And how we move through the questions of using stories in their work.

Do they envision that they want to write a.

Do they have a keynote for a very specific type of an audience?

Do they want to be funnier and just get people laughing through the nuttiness

of the way things are and sort of develop their inner with their team.

So I think getting clarity about that first, you know, maybe it's

more for personal development.

They say, you know, I just have always done explore my life story.

And I don't know where it's going to go.

It could be a talk, it could, could be a book.

It could be, you know, material that I'm feeding into my blog post,

but I just want to craft my story.

So that would be first is to hear what ideas they have so far about.

I think of it kind of like the containers, because if they have a specific idea,

then I'll say, okay, If want to create, a talk that you're going to give.

And then I ask, of course, if it's virtual, or are they thinking

about doing it up on the stage?

Um, I try to get an idea of how much of their story is it, how much of it is

going to be the story of the organization?

The call to action.

That might be part of it go from there.

The proportion of the personal and the professional and just

get a feeling of the tone.

You know, I need to spend time with the person to get to know kind of

who they are, what their strengths are and what their character is

like to help bring that forth.

Uh, and then diving into the, the, all the material that they

don't even know that they have.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I will often say to potential clients and customers, whether I'm working with

them on presentation skills or not there.

I believe that being able to speak and present well.

Is no longer an option when it comes to leadership roles and C-suite and

above everybody has to do this now just in some way, shape or form, especially

if you are a business owner or an entrepreneur, it is absolutely critical.

Would you agree with that?

And is there anything you would add to that?

Oh, I certainly is critical.

And I would say being aware of what of your platforms are, where your voice up

very important to look at that array, the blog, The vlog, the vlog, conversations

with the team, the conversations with clients, and really get that?

full picture because the material you can develop is material

you can use in all platforms.

I don't think there's a limit.

And so the work that you invest to develop your voice and become.

Even more of who you are, whether it's on the page or on

the stage is time and effort.

Very well-spent.

Um, I think sometimes we aren't aware of places where we could amplify our voice

and bring in more color and dimension.

Right.

Bring in more anecdotes.

They don't need to be long again, um, to engage.

The people who are reading are the people who are listening.

So I think that's the first step is really thinking of it as a whole mosaic.

And what is everything, and maybe you want to add something to it

too, but I definitely agree with you, Johnny, that it's critical.

It's also, I think I find with clients a way of crafting a better magnet.

And by that, I mean, you developing your voice.

And making it authentic and bringing forth of the color of who you are

and what your business or your nonprofit, your, what your mission is.

You are creating a stronger pull to draw in the people that you really want to work

with you're showing more of who you are.

Right.

You're pulling back that curtain a little.

Yeah.

will attract those people better.

So that's, I think a silver lining, I guess, to this reality that

yes, we do need to spend all of us more time thinking about how you

Yeah.

ourselves out there.

Pretty much and, and how we're seen by other people as well.

This is part of cultivating your professional image or

professional brand as well.

Even if you're working in a corporation, you still need to have your brand,

do your mark, that you put on things.

And I think it's a great way to be thinking about it with particular

regards to the business sector.

Who are some of the people we may be able to identify who are killing it,

who do a really good job of presenting and storytelling in how they speak

to companies, organizations, or whoever, whoever they're presenting to.

Hm.

you want me to name drop here?

Yeah.

If you can think of a few particular people, that would be great.

Yeah.

I'm working with companies and organizations.

Yeah, That's a great question.

Well, I've mentioned Dorie Clark.

Um, I think there's sort of a range of up and down.

I mean, I think of someone who really speaks to the writer in me is Seth.

I think he's a really gifted at illuminating what it means to

communicate well and, you know, get going on, on your on your best voice.

So he's another one.

Um, my mind's kind of like, flooded right now with people, Johnny.

So if I think about like who's,

That's a nice problem to have.

Yes.

Like who's, who's really killing it.

You know, I'm thinking of someone I'm trying to remember his name.

He works with IBM.

And I've just come across him recently.

Maybe the name will come back to me in a moment.

But I also think of people who are less well known who are you know, Out

there just doing amazing consulting.

I mean, I think of Ruth Forenga I think is her name.

And she's really got this mindfulness orientation in her work with organizations

she's really about conscious leadership.

I don't know if you know her work.

No, no, I don't.

I'll check out.

Yeah, she's part of this group in the UK called drive.

And it's headed up by someone who is a business mentor and advisor and Hawkins.

and it's fun to know these people who aren't, you know, sort of like the big

shining stars, like the Dorie Clark or the Alyssa cone who works with startups.

I also admire But it's fun to think of the people who a, a smaller practice, right.

Who don't have like hundreds of thousands of followers and

what are they doing sort of out.

there on the edge.

So there, those are a few people come to mind.

Yeah, it's interesting.

One of the, one client who I worked for back, and I wrote about this in a blog

recently when we started talking about.

Some presentations and online work, her initial fear was that she was

perhaps going to not be able to go to the supermarket anymore because of

people wanting her autograph and that, well, I'm not saying that that couldn't

happen, but it is very unlikely that that's going to impact your personal

life in that kind of way, because most of the people were talking about.

Like Hollywood A-list stars.

They are just general random people who you may recognize them in the supermarket,

but even then, you're probably not going to go up to them unless you really

feel some, some connection to them.

And then is to say that.

So, so probably not, but but it's interesting how people perceive

this thing of putting themselves into public life and it is worth

considering how you're going to be seen.

But what do you think are perhaps the more realistic but positive and negative

points of having more of a public profile.

well, that's an interesting question.

yeah, I mean, I think that you have to.

The extra careful, you know, you have sort of more at stake if you have, you

know, so, so very many followers and you have to of course have a bigger

team and delegate for some of the work.

So you have sort of more layers.

I think some of the fun of being an entrepreneur and having a small

shop is that you're very close to the communications right there.

Aren't a lot of layers.

And I think also it's harder to stay in touch with what's

happening out in the field.

Right.

To know what, what's the experience of the people who really delivering

the services out on the front lines.

It's hard.

I take, takes work to stay in touch with that.

I think it's easy to get swept up in that high level strategic work with people who

are in your circle by necessity, right?

There's a lot, there's a lot to be done.

Um, so I think those are a couple of pieces around communication and

yeah, what you're in touch with and how you just sort of, stay real, you

know, and don't let, don't let the feedback sort of get to your head.

And I think the people that I admire are ones where I feel like they

really, they stay real and they stay true them, themselves in the way

they were they became all and famous.

Right.

They can still laugh at themselves right there.

Yeah.

I, I just, yeah, I do sometimes wonder if there is, it's interesting that when,

when you have the smaller following of people who are kind of committed to,

and you can be more connected to that, you, you are more based in the reality

of what's going on, but I do often see for some people when they rise up.

They sometimes lose that connection on that journey of rising up, because

I guess they are more public figures.

They're more, well-known, they're more likely to be recognized in

public life and and that could be an issue for them, but it also creates

a level of perhaps detachment from what they do because it's essential.

I mean, at some level, When you have a big enough audience, you have to

detach at least to some degree, right.

To be able to protect your own private life and the have

some time away from things?

So you know, although that might, may seem desirable for people to have

that huge following and become a big online meet online star or speaking

star, wherever it does come with some of those things, maybe not to this,

or if you're going to be followed around by the paparazzi kind of thing,

but being frequently recognized and having to be that bit more careful as you say

about about how you interact with people and protecting your, yourself and your

own mental health as a part of that too.

So, yeah.

You have to take your pick, I guess, do you want to go, go big and deal with all

of those sides of things or keep things in a sort of a high level, but not too big?

Not that you have to make any big changes or adjust to private life,

just keep that deeper connection.

It's a tough choice.

it is a tough choice.

You know, it's a question it'd be fun to ask folks who have a big following

know, The person that I wanted to reference earlier is Jeremy Connell.

Wait e it's Connell is C O N N E L L and a it's a hyphenated.

Waite, w a I T E I find his material compelling around

communications and story.

He's the one at IBM.

And I think it's partly because he keeps it.

You know, in his video material, you can see he's like a kid in a

candy store with some topics, right?

He's having all the fun with the research he's doing and the ways

he's, he's thinking and what he's excited to share with us.

And, and my hunch is, you know, he has to say very present and conscious

to keep that, keep that spirit about.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, I wanted to come back to something you mentioned earlier about human

comedy, because I know that this is something that a lot of people in,

especially in corporate presentations, professional presentations are

really scared about doing and people will try and stay away from that.

How can you start to bring that in, in a way that's going to feel appropriate

and not be scary, like not thinking that you have to get on stage and be tonight,

stand up act, but actually just maybe help create a bit more rapport and relaxation

and connection with your audience.

humour is, such a great topic.

Well, it's great to start in some way with yourself.

And the small catastrophe, can be a good source if you're not too, too introverted.

That's a great well to draw from because there's always new material.

And think about when you find yourself laughing at yourself when your friends

and family are laughing at you what is so you what troubles you get yourself into?

Because all love hearing people who are able to laugh at themselves.

Yeah, we all do.

Like I was thinking, yeah, I could share with you Johnny that you know,

I just, I love talking with people that I remember this time of sort

of self-consciousness when I'm in a parking lot at the grocery store and

there was this truck parked there.

I don't know how many wheels.

It definitely had more than 18 wheels on it.

It was this massive truck in this not very big parking lot.

And I thought, well, maybe he's lost.

Who knows what?

He's got a story, right.

It was an unmarked truck, so who knows.

But I said to my son, let's go ask him if he needs help or what he's up to.

And this conversation ensued, you know, he was from down in Arkansas we talked

about he was carrying in that truck.

I can't even remember anymore.

And I just had this moment of like, yeah, here I am stepping

up on the little ladder thing.

And this chatting with this trucker, I'm like, that is so me, you know,

and, and bringing my son along with me.

And thinking, that's a story I could work up to let people know

that I'm just always interested.

I'm interested in helping somebody who's lost.

I'm interested in what his story is.

He came from somewhere and he's going somewhere.

He has a job to do.

And that's a very, every day.

Right, it does give you a little color and it's out of the office.

That's a nice, that's a nice dimension to it.

And funny would be to find, you know, one that has a, more

of a mishap involved, right?

Yeah, like the time when, you know, I was going cross country and just

camping wherever I could, and identified this little park on the map in this

place called Lowell, Massachusetts.

And I wasn't really familiar with Lowell and I was like, oh great.

There's a national park.

I'll just pull up, pull up and spend the night there.

Well, it's completely an urban There was nowhere to sleep.

And then I find myself driving into these crazy neighborhoods in Lowell and asking

these people in random gas stations.

If there's anywhere to go camping, this might not be the smartest thing

to do to be getting out of my car.

It's like 20 something innocent looking young woman.

And so that's something where I could just play up that story about, how sometimes

I just jump into things and I don't, it

Yeah.

the map and let's go for it.

And this will all work out.

So thinking of your stories and mishaps is a great place to start.

Hmm, I thinkI think so.

I, Iknow if you've ever heard of a, an English, Irish really, a talk

show host called Graham Norton, but on, on his chat show, in the,

in the UK is on BBC every Friday.

I think.

He does this segment at the end of the show where he has members of the audience

come and tell a story from their lives.

And the idea is that they're meant to entertain with their story.

And if they're not very entertaining, they pull a lever

and they get thrown off the chair.

I think it was kind of funny.

I always find it interesting.

I haven't watched it for a while, but often when.

People from the UK who are in the chair because he does have people

who are English speaking from other countries in the audience to.

That the stories of the mishaps that perhaps were entertaining

nearly always involve getting caught short for the toilet and needing

something involving bodily functions.

There's nearly, always, just to me, it's just kind of gross.

I don't ask me why english people particularly seem to find that so funny,

but that seems to be a theme for a lot of those sorts of mishap stories.

And to me, it's a bit like, oh, good grief.

Another story about somebody who.

Diarrhea and unfortunate time for a job interview as I'm about.

It's not as funny as people think it is.

And that's definitely something I think people should stay, stay

well away from it, especially in, in professional presentations.

Do you think people should stay away from stories about.

Bodily functions and fluids and the likes when it comes to

professional life storytelling,

you know, I haven't thought about that.

it's not one of my go-to's.

I would say, know your audience is what matters.

And if you want to it safe, talk more about food.

As an example, Which is, you know, so central everyone can relate to it.

So some disaster at a restaurant or some blow up in your own kitchen and

there's mess involved and that might be a way to still hit some of the.

Well,Well,

r notes going all the way to the bathroom humor.

But

Yeah,

knowing your audience, right?

I, I don't, I don't know that there's any hard and fast

rules when it comes to humor.

I guess if you're present, perhaps if you're presenting in the

toilet industry or something like that, maybe that's incredibly appropriate.

So I guess there could betimes where, whether it is and and it t does depend

on who you're actually speaking to.

So maybe nothing is completely off the cards, but what were some of the

stories that you like to use in your presentations, funny or otherwise that

that you have had great results with.

Well, that is bit more serious is.

From the world of farming that I shared with my staff when I was a leader.

And what I said to them once in a meeting was that I had known of a farmer who, you

know, came to this time in the year when a lot of the crops are ready for harvest.

And he pulled together the team, that's a bunch of 20 somethings and

said, You know, you all know that the weeds have taken over a lot of the

crops and we are way, way, way behind.

And by the way, my organization was way behind on a few things.

And what the farmer said was those rows of broccoli over there.

That we are going to be ready to harvest soon.

What we need to do today is actually plow them under.

And the young people look at him with huge eyes.

Like he's talking about tilling money into the ground, which he is,

but what he said is is that will let ustch up with the rest of the crops.

We cannot do it all.

And that broccoli will feed the soil.

Yeah.

this is our way forward.

And so they did, and indeed they were able to catch.

And it's a great lesson sometimes we have to make tough choices and that

we cannot weed out everything down all the projects that we have on our

plate, that other circumstances come up and leadership is making those tough,

unlikely decisions to plow things under.

So that's an example of a story that just came in passing, you know,

from the life of a farmer and struck me as such a powerful metaphor.

And so I've told this story before I realized in hindsight was that

it became part of our culture.

It became part of our, kind of our language as an organization that we

didn't necessarily share this with the outside world, but we would share with.

each other knowingly that.

That item, that task that we're not getting to broccoli, isn't it.

And we wouldwould all nod and kindhuckle because it sounded so funny, but it

was, and the metaphor and the story really helped us that it's a tough

moment to circle up and say, Yeah.

we're going to plow that under and let it go.

And just trust we've done so far will serve us and feed us

and we've got to just move on.

So that's one example.

No.

I love that that shared, shared metaphors, like that are very, very powerful

and that's definitely very effective.

There's so much I could ask you because this is such an interesting

topic for me but I know that we do have to consider the time as well.

So I do want to ask you, because we were about influence and persuasion

here in the show and storytelling of course, is a critical part of

building your influence and persuasion.

Is that your greatest superpower in influence and persuasion or

would you choose something else?

If I say you, what's your, what is your greatest strength when it

comes to influence and persuasion?

Well, I'd say my greatest strength coach is.

I love helping other people improve their influence and persuasion.

And it's really through creating a space listening so that people can go

deeper into their stories so that people can time travel with me into what they

have felt and seen and known to be true in the life of their organization.

And then go deeper still.

And.

Yeah.

Where I influence and persuade is that

people can take those risks.

They can move into places that may feel vulnerable in developing their material.

And what will from that more powerful than they daredare to imagine.

Ntastic.Let me ask you this then, ass he comes on this show gets

asked for a book recommendation and that could be related to the topic or not.

Could just be a book that you have found very powerful that

you like recommending to other people, but what would you choose?

It's a book that a number of people may

know called talk like Ted, um,

Yeah, I think I've read that.

Yeah.

And it's Carmine Gallo and I found it extremely helpful

developing my own speech writing.

The talks that I gave at big events or at conferences a wonderful teacher

and it is just also a good read.

There's a reason it was a wall street journal best.

So talk like Ted he even writes a good title.

I mean, who doesn't want to talk like Ted the nine public speaking

secrets of the world's top minds?

Yeah, helpful.

But I, I read that and a few others of his, I think his most recent book

I read as well and got some, some value from so a great recommendation.

Thank you.

One thing I would like to ask then, based on, we talked a lot about storytelling

and bringing that into professional life.

What's one thing you hope people will most remember or take

away from this conversation.

oh, I hope you all will know.

With more conviction, how you can serve other people by

telling your story and telling

Of your story.

It can seem self-centered sometimes right.

We're talking about ourselves and things that we've experienced.

I invite you to think about it as a service to others a gift to others.

And I hope you take away that part of your.

Opportunity.

And I think obligation as a human to share the inspiration.

You've got

the wisdom from the life you've lived with others.

It's it's a gift to other people.

Yeah, life is the stories that we create.

And I, I live to be a better storyteller, so I appreciate

everything you've shared with us today.

Sophie Wadsworth, thank you so much for coming and being

a guest on Speaking Influence.

you, Johnny.

you for tuning in.

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