We have been taught to manage the body, override its signals, and stay in our heads, then wonder why peace keeps slipping. On Mind Over Matter, Archita welcomes back Veronique Ory, yoga teacher, retreat leader, founder of the SHINE™ membership, and author of Shine On & Off the Mat, for a deeply embodied conversation about self-trust, listening, and the quiet revolution of meeting yourself exactly where you are.

Veronique shares the post-Hurricane Sandy yoga moment that reframed her relationship with being a beginner, the three thieves of inner freedom (expectation, comparison, judgment), why the body stores what the mind has not finished feeling, and a remarkable music-based practice she uses to move emotions through without needing the outside world to change first. If you have been waiting for the right circumstances to begin, this episode is the permission slip you did not know you were carrying.

About the Guest:

Veronique Ory is an Intuitive Movement and Mindful Awareness Guide who weaves yoga, storytelling, and self-inquiry into retreats, classes, private sessions, and her interactive book. With over 500 hours of Yoga Alliance-certified training, she founded the SHINE™ membership, a global community designed for personal growth and conscious connection. Veronique is the author of Shine On & Off the Mat, a one-of-a-kind interactive yoga book that integrates storytelling, curated playlists, on-demand classes, journal prompts, and photos into a self-paced practice. Before stepping fully into guiding others, she spent seventeen years running her own theatre company in New York City. She is a granddaughter of Holocaust survivors, lives with vitiligo, and now leads international retreats including her upcoming gathering in Italy. She publishes regularly through her Substack, Shine Letters, and is based in the Los Angeles area.

Key Takeaways:

• Three things steal almost every human's freedom: expectation, comparison, and judgment. Eliminating them is the entire inner work, no matter what spiritual tradition you sit inside.
• Being a beginner is not a wound to outgrow. It is the place where all growth lives. The discomfort of the beginner seat is the price of any real expansion.
• The body holds what the mind cannot yet process. Hips often store grief and guilt. That is why people cry in pigeon pose without knowing where the tears came from.
• The pendulum has to swing far before most of us listen. The hound dog metaphor: the dog howls because he is lying on a nail, but he won't move because "it doesn't hurt that bad."
• Think of yourself as an antenna with multiple radio stations. Love, joy, sadness, guilt can all coexist. The work is choosing which station gets the volume.
• A music-based emotional release practice: play a song that matches the emotion, let the body move (eyes closed, awkward is fine), then play a song that lifts you. The face physically changes by the end. The inner world shifts without the outer one needing to.
• Nothing externally needs to change for your inner world to change. That is the quiet revolution. Most of us spend years waiting for "if only" before realizing the agency was always here.

Connect With the Guest:

• Website: yogawithveronique.com
• Instagram: @veroniqueory
• Book: Shine On & Off the Mat (interactive hardcover with playlists, classes, and journal prompts)
• SHINE™ Membership: 7-day free trial, on-demand practices, music playlists, journal prompts, global community
• Substack: Shine Letters
• Retreats: Italy retreat October 2026 (details on website)
• Private Sessions: Available via her website

Episode Chapters:

[00:00] Welcome back to Mind Over Matter — the body knows first

[02:30] Returning to the mat after Hurricane Sandy and the shift she did not see coming

[06:00] The three thieves of inner freedom — expectation, comparison, judgment

[10:00] What ten years between two yoga classes taught her about beginner shame

[14:00] Why the body has to be stressed on purpose for real growth to happen

[18:00] When the body starts speaking — the hound dog and the nail

[22:00] Emotions stored in hips, the antenna metaphor, and choosing your station

[26:00] The music practice — moving an emotion through without changing the outside

[29:00] A closing word — nothing externally needs to change for your inner world to shift

(timestamps approx.)

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00:00:08 Archita: Welcome back to Mind Over Matter. I am Marcheta and today I am joined by Veronique Ory, a yoga teacher, retreat leader and the author of Shine On and Off the Mat. Veronique spent seventeen years running her own theater company in New York City before stepping fully into guiding others through movement, mindfulness, and embodied healing. She lives with vitiligo, carries the inherited weight of being a granddaughter of Holocaust survivors, and has built a body of work that helps people meet themselves with presence, breath and courage. Today we are talking about what the mind body connection actually offers far beyond fitness, and how transformation begins long before the circumstances around us start to change. So Veronique, welcome to the show and it's such an honor to host you today.

00:01:05 Veronique Ory: Thank you. I'm very happy to be here.

00:01:09 Archita: Thank you for being here. Uh, but before we start,

00:01:51 Archita: And now that we have this out of the way without wasting any further time, let's dive into the conversation. And, um, before we go into the bigger picture, I would love to start somewhere very personal. So looking back at the version of you sitting on that yoga mat after hurricane Sandy, what do you wish she had known about what was about to unfold?

00:02:17 Veronique Ory: Oh gosh, I love this question so much. The version of me. Oh gosh. In twenty twelve. I've been talking a lot about this recently. And and this feels like it's very on the surface for many of us to witness these different deaths that we have of identity, of place, of relationships, of where our thoughts have been. If you track back really through different cycles. So I love, you know, tracing certainly a year or seven years or sometimes twelve or thirteen years. And we can really start to see with a little bit more perspective of the things that have shifted in, in real time. It felt slowly or maybe imperceivable. And then when we have a little bit more space, we can better really see things with more clarity. And so I was thinking back to the version of myself living in New York, and it's so wild. And you can trace this. You know, when we when we witness, you know, different stages of our childhood of, of thinking that we've figured it out, you know, in real time, we think like, oh, like I'm doing things well to a certain degree, or I can do these things on my own to a certain degree. But then there's this exterior force or people or maybe, you know, in modern day social media or people that we perceive to be further along than us, we start to get into this combination of, of expectation, comparison, and judgment. And these three things, expectation, judgment, and comparison is really, if we could eliminate that, there would be so much freedom for every single human soul spirit on this planet. Because in a lot of ways, if I gave in to the expectation of where I thought I should be based on living a certain amount of years compared to other people who were the same age, never mind our backgrounds and what we were focusing on or the comparison, right? Like it's so easy to look, particularly in the yoga space where asana or the poses or the focus, it's really easy to get sort of drawn into, uh, physical comparison of where we sort of size up next to people who are seasoned practitioners, or they might have a background in dance or gymnastics or something, or they might just have natural flexibility or strength that they're born into. And and then there's this judgment. There's the judgment of other people, of ourselves that come into play. And I don't know where this thought came from, but I really feel like it was brought to me from spirit, where I had shown up in the space of feeling very intimidated, very fish out of water kind of experience. And then I thought, what if I changed my insecurities and my, my feeling of, of judgment and a little bit of shame of and this happens when we're in the beginner seat often where we might have thoughts of like, oh, like I should have started sooner, you know, I'm not doing this well. And we get into this sort of like perfectionism thought loop. And, and then I thought, you know what, I'm starting now, right? And all I can do is embrace being a beginner. And what if I saw what incredible shapes and strengths and flexibility and just grace that people are exhibiting as inspiration rather than intimidation. And so I thought, okay, if I can control the way that I'm looking at it, right? Nothing exteriorly is changing, but my mindset about it is shifting. And then it becomes a realization, oh, wait, if this is possible in other people, that means that it's possible in general. And so if it's if it's possible in general, then it's possible in my body and it's possible in your body. And, and all it is required is the thought, the, the consistency, the persistence, the connecting to teachers and, and settings that feel uplifting and grounding in these different ways. And, and what's so powerful about this is, you know, if I had arrived to that room, you know, maybe five years prior, I probably would have gone the one time and not gone back again, because that's exactly what happened when I went to a yoga class ten years prior and a friend of mine, it was kind of a similar situation where a friend of mine invited me to go and I thought I did okay, whatever that means. Right? I thought I, you know, didn't fall over and, and embarrass myself. And, and the teacher came up to me afterwards and he said, oh, actually the beginner class is at a different time. And I was, I was so mortified, which is kind of hysterical thinking about it in retrospect because I was a beginner, why should I be offended? But I felt like I didn't want to be known as a beginner, right? There's like a certain kind of shame about know, like, I want to feel like I can sort of acclimate or sort of be in the blend of, of wherever I go. And I think in his mind he was just trying to be helpful. But I took it. I took offense to it, and I never went back until ten years later. And then, you know, but I, I'd love to share that story because I think it it really is a testament to our receptivity in the moment. Our our ability to be a beginner is so important as we get older to really seek the places where we actively get uncomfortable, where we actively can be learning, right? To be in the student seat for, for all of our days, because that's where the growth is, right? If we only stay in the places where we're comfortable, then we can't change. And so this is part of, you know, one of the strong dualities in the human experience. It's like, we want growth, but, you know, we don't really want to be uncomfortable. And so we're sort of in this dance of how do we seek to be comfortably uncomfortable with. And this is one of the beautiful parts of the physical yoga practice is we actually, on purpose stress the body, stress the mind, stress the spirit in a way that we can practice the breath where we can practice. Where does the thought want to go? And then we can track those patterns in real time. And the more awake and the more seasoned we become at the practice, we can start to better become aware of when we drift. So it's less about arriving anywhere. Actually, there's no point of, okay, I've mastered this because we want to be in the practice of it for for all of our days.

00:09:59 Archita: I'm there. And because I think, I think this is really helpful to all the Beginners out there, you know, who are quietly figuring out what's working and what's not working for them. And it's, it's really very fascinating, uh, to, you know, me that the fact that, um, you were in that in that place once and you had wished that someone had told you this at that time, but now you are in this stage where you are able to tell um, other people, uh, and give them advice that you had needed once upon a time. I think this, um, is like a full circle moment. So I'm really glad you began from there. And now, um, uh, you know, the mind body connection has become a popular phrase, but for most people, it stays abstract. Uh, so from your own experience, when does the body actually start speaking? And what does it usually trying to say that the mind has been ignoring him.

00:11:08 Veronique Ory: I love that so much. Yeah, it's a lot of what we've been talking about is our awareness and our own discernment. And you're right, a lot of that connection of mind body is elusive for a lot of us. And I talk a lot about in different aspects of sometimes the pendulum has to swing really far. So for example, if you have, you know, maybe just a little pain in your shoulder, for example, that might not alert you to go to the doctor or to seek therapy or anything. But if all of a sudden you couldn't raise that arm above your head, then perhaps you're starting to think, okay, there's something of great concern here, but if maybe all of a sudden, you know, depending on what your threshold is for pain or how much you need that arm in this particular example, you might let it go a quite long way. You might be someone that, you know, goes and seeks some kind of therapeutic approach right away. So we all have different thresholds. But I think for most people, you know, there's that old story of the man on the porch with his hound dog. I don't I've, I've sort of expanded on this story in my own imagination. I am imagining, you know, one of those wraparound porches. And this man is, you know, in a rocking chair and he has his hound dog. And the neighbor comes over and the hound dog is howling and, and asks the man, you know, why is your dog howling? And the man says, well, he's laying on a nail. And then the neighbor says, well, why doesn't he get up? And the man says, well, it doesn't hurt that bad. And I feel like we as humans do that in different ways. It's like, if it doesn't hurt that bad, we just kind of keep on, you know, you'll see people, especially as they get older, but it doesn't necessarily need to be an indicator of a certain age. A lot of people just through experience or if, if you've like, really exhausted your body and athletics in different ways, or if you work a job that requires a lot of youth physically, there might be natural patterns that take hold. A really common thing that we see these days is the slumping shoulders, the head in front of the body. There's this sort of like rounding in kind of quality. And so it actually requires a lot to combat, you know, the modern, you know, whether you're driving or you're at your computer or you're using your phone or, you know, you're bending down in different ways, that can be a natural physical pattern. And so sometimes because we're seeing each other ourselves, you know, in real time. We not we might not be alert to it, but this is when, you know, if you see a family member who you haven't seen in a while, the hope is that they'll be honest and remark, oh, like, how are your shoulders feeling? You know, in this particular instance, or, you know, whatever the thing that they're remarking on, it might take an exterior set of eyes to notice it. I think certainly if you have a devoted yoga stretching, maybe, uh, kind of dance practice or some kind of physical practice where you're using your body in a mindful way, then you might be alert to it more readily than if, if you're not very connected to your body in space. So what starts to happen, and this is there's a lot to be said about the connection of emotions that are held in the body. So, for example, it's very commonly noted that we store emotions in our hips. And so that's why if you're in, say, a pigeon pose or some kind of hip stretch, oftentimes people will cry and they don't know where that emotion is coming from. And so that might be old stored worry or grief or guilt. And, and you might, you know, this is a very common thing that happens in the yoga practice where, you know, the song in that moment, or maybe the thought in that moment just resonates in a, in a new depth in your, in your awake to that experience. And you realize, and I, I witnessed this a lot with my private clients is, you know, we'll start each session and I'll ask, what are you craving? And that's the entry point. And so I always am in this co-creation of the practice with spirit, with the person, with the energetics of the moment and the space. And so based on that prompt and the energetics that I'm feeling in the moment, there's there's a natural progression of, of the physical practice. And oftentimes someone might be surprised to find out is will either be in stillness or silence. We might be in conversation because there's a lot in the energetic and the emotional body that needs to be processed before any kind of physical practice can take place. Sometimes it's the other way. If the words aren't there, if or if it feels too vulnerable to speak to that, sometimes the somatic release. So this is why, you know, practices like shaking or dancing or, uh, really strong movement of the body can be so therapeutic. I think about, you know, our connection to being an antenna of sorts. And so we might tune into a certain radio dial or a certain frequency. So you can think of that as maybe, you know, the prominent radio station that I'm tapped into is love. And then I might have, you know, accompanying stations that might have a little bit of joy, a little bit of sadness. There might be a little bit of guilt in there, right? So there's, there's spaces for other emotions to cohabitate, but it's like, which one do I want to have the volume more pronounced on so that there's support for all the emotions that are happening simultaneously. And so I love this as, as a way to move through those emotions on, on the mind emotional space in connection to the body space. And that's to really Intentionally choose a song. It could be you're actually listening to a song, or you could just kind of think of like an energetics. If you're able to tap into an energetic other song and allow the emotions to come through, it's not often as adults that we're given permission to have a tantrum to, to sob and to, to scream and to really allow the emotions, you know, maybe make sure that you're in a safe space and that, you know, you feel safe to do this. Sometimes these emotions will come out and really inopportune times. So it's really important to cultivate a practice where you can allow these things to move through you so you're not holding on to them. So the, the metaphor for this is, you know, you've been overambitious with your, your grocery bags or your luggage and you're trying to carry everything in one trip. And so that that's sort of the feeling of the tension or, or these different, you know, heavy emotions that we carry, we can recognize, okay, I can put this down even just for one, maybe four breaths and, and then I can decide, do I want to pick them up after I've moved through it? Or maybe I decide I'm just going to let them be. Right. And so then I think of you can actually change the song. So, you know, you could create different playlists for this. If you're someone who is really connected to music, you can actually do this with music, or you could just be in the energetics of it. And then you allow yourself to organically move. So this could be really elusive to many. So if, if you don't naturally move, if you're not naturally someone who who dances, this doesn't have to be a physical expression. It could be more of an energetic expression, although maybe you just allow it to be awkward. And then after a while, it'll just start to feel more natural. The more that you practice with this, and it's not about dancing. Well, in fact, I recommend if you feel safe to do so with your eyes closed and just allow a movement to come through. And you could almost feel like you're, you're dancing with the music or with the band as if they're right there with you. And then, and then after the song is done. So you move through the song that is that emotion, and then you move through the song that brings you into an emotion that feels uplifting. So that might be like a song that, you know, you would love to play with your, your friends or someone that you really love. And that it feels like a very, like, uplifted and connected song. And then once you move through that, there's, there's a physiological shift that happens. And so what's so remarkable to witness when I'm with my private clients is the physiology or the quality of their face when they enter, when they're moving through something, it can feel kind of sullen, a little bit heavy, a little bit forlorn. And then we move through the practice. And then the quality of the face is soft, it's light, it feels bright, it feels renewed. And what's so powerful about witnessing this and really knowing it at a cellular level is we start to really, really feel, to believe and believe, to feel that nothing exterior really needs to shift in order for our inner world to shift. And, and I know that sounds so revolutionary because it's so easy to be in the conversation of, well, if he would just, you know, or if she would just. Or if they would just. Then I would feel better and. Okay, sure. Right. But we can't control what other people do. We can't control what other people say, but we're able to create space between these things that are not in harmony. And then in the space, we can become more masterful about how we are really taking agency of our inner world.

00:22:19 Archita: I think you couldn't have put it in a better way. Veronica. I love that reframe. And that's such a useful distinction because so many of us have been taught to override the body and stay in our heads. But learning to listen instead of manage is its own quiet revolution. And honestly, everything that you have shared today, all the meaningful insights and the wisdom that you brought into this conversation. I'm sure it's going to change a lot of lives out there. So before we close, I'd love for listeners to be able to find you, follow your work, pick up the book and learn about shine. So where's the best place for them to connect with you?

00:23:02 Veronique Ory: Yes. Thank you for that. I would really love to connect. My website is yoga with Veronique dot com. You can connect with me on Instagram at Veronique Ory. And I would love to connect in any way that resonates with you. So if you're someone who prefers a on demand experience, I have the shine membership, which has the practices, the music playlists, the journal prompts, and it's all connected to my book so you can have the physical book. It's a beautiful coffee coffee table style book. And then if you want to have the interactive piece of the meditation and the yoga practices, you can have a seven day free trial, no commitment necessary at all. And you can go in and try it. And, and what makes this different than other on demand platforms is I'm really wanting to be a salve in, in this sedentary and loneliness epidemic that we're in and to bring people into movement in every sense, to bring people in community and connection in every sense. And so, you know, one of the ways that I think is so powerful is if you're at any point thinking, oh, like, I really want to connect with our chitta or, you know, I really want to connect with a friend or a family member. You can say, oh, I'm about to do this yoga practice. Do you want to do it together? And you can decide if you want video on or off. And then right away you have accountability, you have connection, you have a practice that you can be in conversation about. And so you can frame this in a way, you know, if you only have twenty minutes, you just hop on. But if you happen to have more time, I really encourage people to stay on and be in conversation with one another and, and ask, you know, oh, how did that resonate with you? Or, or what about this practice felt challenging to you or what, what feels like your, you know, intention is for, for this day, this practice, this season. And, and so one of the ways that it can be an extension of listening to this podcast of. So now your mind is like already open. You're thinking about the ways that your mind and your body are connected and maybe ways that your mind and body are disconnected. And so this can be a really great way that you can come in and, and be in that curious student place if you're wanting a more tailored experience. I also offer private sessions that you can find out about on my website as well. And then I lead retreats. So I have a retreat coming up this October in Italy, where we get together for one week and something is so powerful. If you've never been on a yoga retreat, or even if you have, there's there's a powerful connection to gathering with like minded and like hearted souls where we're practicing yoga together, we're having meals together, we're exploring a new culture together. And and what's so powerful about doing this outside of our daily rhythm is we're able to collapse time and space in a powerful way. So when we're not simultaneously tending to the daily rhythms of whatever chores or errands or tasks that we normally have on a daily basis, when all of that is taken away and all we have to do is focus on our our self-care practices, our connection to spirit, our connection to community and nature. It feels so delightfully expansive. It's such a liberating feeling. It's, it's one of my favorite things to do is to connect with travel, culture, community, and nature. It's, it's just, it's so powerful. So if you're curious about that, you can learn more on my website as well. And then if anything resonated, Feel free to message me on Instagram. I'm definitely here for connection and would love to to hear from you and thank you again. I really appreciate the conversation.

00:27:52 Archita: Amazing. And we'll make sure to include all those information in today's show notes so that our listeners can reach out to you whenever they want to. And thank you for the warmth and presence you brought into this conversation today. Nick, thank you so much. Thank you. And if something were said tonight reached you, don't rush to do anything with it just yet. Take one breath. A real one, the kind that drops below your shoulders. That's where the work begins. Not in a retreat, not in a perfect routine, but in the quiet moment when you finally decide to feel yourself again. This has been mind over matter. I am Marchetta. Take care of your mind, honor your body, and I'll see you in the next conversation.