Host: Nathan Dunleavy

Guest: Sally Gutteridge, bestselling dog writer, advocate, and rescue dog handler

In this heartwarming episode, Nathan Dunleavy sits down with Sally Gutteridge, a bestselling author, ethical dog trainer, and former military dog handler. Sally opens up about her incredible journey from working with military dogs to rescuing and rehabilitating traumatised dogs, including ex-puppy farm survivors.

What You’ll Learn:

• The importance of positive, science-based dog training
• How to help rescue dogs decompress and build trust
• Why understanding canine body language is crucial
• The impact of trauma on a dog's behaviour and how to respond
• How to create a predictable, safe environment for anxious dogs
• Writing as a tool for dog advocacy and education

Visit The Yappy Hour podcast page for more episodes!

Welcome to the Yappy Hour powered by

Yappily, the podcast for dog lovers

2

who want to better understand and

connect with their four legged friends.

3

I'm your host Nathan Dunleavy, and

today I'm joined by an incredibly

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special guest, Sally Gutteridge.

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Sally is a best selling dog writer,

an advocate for ethical dog training,

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a mentor, has a background in the

military, and is a rescue dog handler.

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In this episode, we talk about

everything from positive dog guardianship

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to rehabilitating rescue dogs,

including ex puppy farm survivors.

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We also dive into Sally's

fascinating journey with working

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dogs and how her writing is

shaping the future of dog advocacy.

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Whether you're a long time dog guardian or

just starting your journey, this episode

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is packed with wisdom and inspiration.

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So grab a cup of tea, settle

in, and let's get started.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Welcome

back to the Yappy Hour powered by Yappily.

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I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy,

and I'm so excited to bring

16

you another episode today.

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Even more excited because we've got

an amazing guest for this episode,

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Sally Gutteridge, a friend and

a colleague and a mentor to me.

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I'm so excited to have Sally.

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On the show today Sally has an incredible

journey, which we're going to be

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talking about today as a dog writer

an advocate a mentor a former hearing

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dog trainer And also has a background

in the military and is a rescue dog

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handler So we're going to be delving

into rescue dogs puppy farm survivors

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as well as positive Dog guardianship.

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So I'm super excited that

Sally's joined us today.

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Sally, welcome to the Yappy Hour.

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I'm so excited to chat with you today.

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How are you?

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Sally: for inviting me.

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Yeah.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

It's great to have you here.

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Have you had a bit of a cold, haven't you?

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So I'm just, that's both of us.

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We're both in the war.

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So I'm sure we'll get through it together.

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Sally you have sat such a fascinating

journey from being in the military,

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working as a trainer for hearing dogs,

to behaviourist, writer, and mentor.

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What led you to dedicate

your life to dogs?

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Sally: I think it was probably the same

story as most dog people, weren't it?

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We, from the moment that we start to

walk, we start to be drawn to these

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beautiful animals and tend to gravitate

back to them over and over and over

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again and that's how it happened for me.

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I grew up in the West Midlands

and there was no, it was

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very, it was a very poor area.

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And there was no university

or anything like that for me.

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And I

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right.

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Sally: playing with the dog,

getting her over jumps and things.

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And bit by bit I joined the army and

then Learned a little bit more and

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learned a bit more, did lots of study.

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But, do we really need

to ask why we chose dogs?

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Dogs chose us, didn't they?

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Really?

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I knew you were going to say that.

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Dogs choose us.

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Sally: Yeah, they

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

that's lovely.

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You've got such an interesting story.

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So when you were in the military,

did you work with dogs then?

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Sally: Yeah, yeah.

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I actually joined as a healthcare

assistant in the military because

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I had no idea that you could become

an army dog trainer at the time.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, wow.

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Sally: Army careers and they

give me a list of things

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that I would be suitable for.

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was, one was health care assistant.

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So I said, okay, I'll give that a go.

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then while I was working at a hospital

in Catrick Garrison, found out

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you could be an army dog trainer.

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And so I was like,

okay, I want to do that.

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And I went off, joined

the veterinary corps.

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then the first The first day I got there,

we had to do a basic fitness test which

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was run a mile and a half in 15 minutes

and then a mile and a half in 11 minutes.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, bloody hell.

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Sally: completely failed it.

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And then they were going

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

would, I would have found it.

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Oh, wow.

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Sally: I ended up saying, please don't

send me back, I really want to work.

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Here, I really want to work with dogs.

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And the regimental sergeant major took

me running every morning that I could

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pass this fitness test so that I could

carry on working with dogs, yeah.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, that's amazing.

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Sally: Yeah.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

that he was invested and helped

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you, helped you through it as well.

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Sally: Yeah, he was a lovely guy.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: So you

obviously got through it in the end then.

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Sally: Yeah.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I love, I don't know some of this

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stuff, so I'm loving hearing a

little bit about your history.

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I think it's fascinating.

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Thank you, Sally.

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You've written so many books,

books that have helped dog

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parents, dog guardians worldwide.

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What inspired you to start writing

about dogs and their people?

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Sally: Oh, it was, I'd

always wanted to write.

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I always wanted to be a writer.

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And I did it was not that

long ago, when I went back to

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writing, it was about 15 years.

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And I'd been in the army, and

I'd worked for hearing dogs, and

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I'd done lots of rescue stuff.

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So I had all the dog knowledge, but

I, I wanted to write but I never

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met the connection between all

the dog knowledge and the writing.

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I was like a dog person, a person who

loved dogs who wanted to write novels

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and so I did, I did a writing course

and the first part of the writing

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course was writing non fiction.

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And of course I went to dogs,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

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Sally: it for them, I might

as well write it for me.

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So I started writing courses for, and

and my husband created Canine Principles,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Sally: taking it in and then putting

it down on the page in a more

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accessible way as it passed through

my, through me, onto the page.

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So.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Brilliant.

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And you're also a better dog

behaviourist as well, aren't you?

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Sally: yeah, yeah, I don't practice I,

I generally teach and write, but, yeah.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, brilliant.

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Such a let's say such an inspiring

story and I love hearing about it.

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Thank you, Sally.

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So we're going to be moving on to our

next section, which is the power of

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ethical dog training and guardianship.

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You're a huge advocate

for ethical dog training.

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Why do you believe that positive

science based methods are so important?

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Sally: Oh, they are, because we

should be kind, shouldn't we?

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

We should.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Sally: why shouldn't you hit children?

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You know, why shouldn't you, it, it, it's

something that is so straightforward, we

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should be kind, if we love dogs we should

look into understanding them, giving

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them their head, letting them be who

they are, helping them to live with us.

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There's It, it surprises me that there

are still people pushing dogs around.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Heartbreaking.

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Sally: Yeah, even, even things

like picking them up or, or

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blaming them for their behaviour.

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It's so archaic.

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It's so, we know so much about

ourselves, how our minds work,

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how our nervous systems work.

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We know so much about how the dog's brain

works and the dog's nervous system works.

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We know how sensitive and gentle they are.

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If we push our will onto dogs and force

them, to me it's like taking a beautiful

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flower and crushing it up in your

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, oh, wow.

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God, what a comparison.

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Yeah.

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Sally: Yeah, it's, it's how it should be.

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We should be kind.

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We

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

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It's definitely the way we should

go and the way we should be.

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It's actually like you say, we're

kind to each other and we need to be

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kind to dogs, the scent, you know,

central beings kindness to all animals.

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So that takes us nicely

onto our next question.

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So many pet parents and pet guardians

still hear outdated advice about

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being the alpha and inverted commas.

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How do you think we can

change this narrative?

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Sally: I think we need to

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become inspiring ourselves.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Sally: need to light up a

flame in ourselves for the

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kindness and for the educated

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services and become the best

that we can be in order to

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touch as many lives as possible.

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Because if we put in our energy on someone

that's harming, giving bad advice, putting

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all of our special precious resources

onto something, and it will only grow.

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But if we can bring our special resources

back to ourselves and say, I am going

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to be the best that I can be, I'm

going to shine on everything around me.

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We're going to reach more people.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

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Sally: and,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Love that.

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Sally: really believe in a lot of the

people that harm dogs or hurt dogs in the

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name of training have actually be harmed

or hurt themselves in some way, and to

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Absolutely.

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Sally: them with criticism is going to

create a defensive response from them.

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And that's not going to hurt.

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That's not going to help anyone.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No,

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Sally: so, I believe

that we need to consider

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helping through education, but also

through kindness and awareness.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yeah, I was going to say it comes

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back down to education, doesn't it?

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And, and bringing it back to

your, your center, your heart and

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obviously doing it for your heart.

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So yeah, I, I get what you're, what you're

saying is that people that are doing those

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type of methods, they've got some sort of

trauma or hurt themselves, unfortunately.

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So if a dog guardian is feeling

frustrated, what's one mindset,

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mindset shift that could help them

connect better with their dog?

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Sally: I think a lot of frustration

comes from expectations, I think a

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

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Sally: expectations are unreasonable.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah,

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Sally: So I think that if someone

is triggered by the way that their

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dog's behaving, they need to turn

back in and say, Why am I triggered?

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What am I expecting?

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What are they going through?

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yeah, yeah, definitely.

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Sally: they're giving me a hard time

here, they know what they're doing.

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All of these myths and ideas that

dogs know what they're doing.

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They can be naughty, they're

doing this, they're doing that.

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Actually, our expectations

of dogs are very, very high.

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Our threshold for embarrassment

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

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Sally: low.

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And that

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah,

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Sally: I think, to cause

frustration with dogs, but if we

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can say, why am I embarrassed?

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This is about me, not my dog.

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I need to look inwards.

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And also, what am I expecting?

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And are they actually

capable of delivering that?

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Have I

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah,

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Sally: that they can

succeed by delivering that?

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah,

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Sally: I think that's the thing.

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It's very much, am I expecting too much?

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yeah, I think but there are an

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unrealistic expectations in life now.

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You know, everyone sort of wants a quick

fix and we, we, you know, we compare

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ourselves to others, unfortunately,

and we're not necessarily prepared to.

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Be consistent and put in the work.

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We just want, you know,

we want that quick fix.

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We, we, you know, we're,

we're our own worst critics.

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So like you say, it's about

sort of looking in more.

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Yeah.

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Sally: I remember when I worked for

hearing dogs and, and a kind of a little

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bit of a culture in hearing dogs for the

person that could have the dog the most

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robotic and clearly they needed to be like

that because they were going out to people

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who weren't dog handlers or trainers.

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So they needed to have a good standard

of like obedience and things so they

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could walk around the shops and stuff.

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And.

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I remember thinking while I was

doing it, I am not invested in this.

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I'm not invested in having this,

this, this of obedience from dogs.

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And so, even back then, I started to

to myself, well, back then I would

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say to myself, I'm not good enough

because I'm not invested and I'm not

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making this dog do exactly what, and

it was all very much, I was wrong.

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Because I wasn't creating these obedient

dogs, although I was because I had to

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because it was my job, but I was wrong

because it, I wasn't that invested in it.

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And I

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Silence.

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Silence.

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Silence.

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Sally: didn't matter.

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So you had all the men like, Heel,

heel, and we were like, Our dogs

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are being exactly as they please.

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And we loved it.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, that's the way it should be.

253

Sally: But it's never

mattered to me, not really.

254

These dogs should be seen and

not heard and all of that stuff.

255

And to a point in my life where

I started to say actually, I'm

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not wrong and they're all right.

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That's not how it is.

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I just

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mmm.

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Sally: a different angle and I don't

think obedience is important and I'm

261

seeing more and more people saying

now dogs get to be who they are.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

263

Yeah.

264

Sally: and that's amazing.

265

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, yeah.

266

No, it's nice that we're, more people

come around to that way of thinking.

267

You know, why have a, that whole mantra

like children you should be seen and

268

not heard and dogs, you know, to me

it's, it's rubbish because why have a

269

companion or A friend if you if you're

of that if you've got that mindset.

270

Yeah

271

Sally: And it's fun, it's fun seeing

dogs doing like climbing all over you,

272

like two hours climbing all over you.

273

It's quite, it's quite nice.

274

Yeah,

275

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: you

know, you're preaching to the converted

276

of being, you know Having my free two

hours and I know you've got your two hours

277

Now as well which we can touch on later.

278

But yeah the two hours are so spirited

and full of character and they're

279

just, they're just being dogs.

280

Let them be.

281

Sally: And it's beautiful, it's beautiful.

282

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: It is.

283

Thank you, Sally.

284

Moving on to our next section, which is

all about rescuing and rehabilitating

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dogs, including puppy farm.

286

survivors.

287

You've rescued a lot

of dogs over the years.

288

You've rescued two even recently,

which I, which I love including

289

some ex puppy farm survivors.

290

What would you say are some of

the biggest challenges they face?

291

Yeah, yeah,

292

Sally: little dogs, think.

293

A lot of them, my little Holly,

she came into my life when she was

294

six, but they say they're all six,

and she came through many tears,

295

and she was completely shut down.

296

I think that's what people find hard,

if they don't understand these kind of

297

dogs, and what they've been through,

and how they've probably never had the

298

human relationship that they should have.

299

I think that they come, they want to

rescue them, and they want to love them.

300

And for these little dogs,

that's the hardest thing.

301

They just need to be left alone,

that they can join in, in their

302

own time, in their own way.

303

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yeah, yeah.

304

Sally: We, we humans, we

just, we want to comfort.

305

Come on, give me a hug, I'll comfort

you, I'll make you feel better.

306

And there's nothing wrong with that,

that's a beautiful human trait.

307

It's just not right trait for dogs who

are carrying trauma, have been traumatised

308

or are shut down in this frozen state.

309

Even eye contact with

those dogs is too much.

310

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, I mean even a normal rescue dog.

311

Oh go on my love.

312

Sally: But the beauty of these little

dogs is you start to see their eyes

313

shine and it happens overnight.

314

You've got these little blank eyes

and then you look at them one day

315

and the tail's going and they're

shining and you go there it is

316

you're shining and it's beautiful.

317

Yeah.

318

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: God

Like because rescue dogs can take up

319

to six months to fully decompress, but

obviously these ex puppy farm dogs I

320

mean, like you say they've been through

this trauma So it could take even longer.

321

And I picked up on your point.

322

You said they're all six, so I guess they

get to the age of six and then they're of

323

no use to the puppy farms, which is awful,

324

Sally: Yeah.

325

And

326

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: awful.

327

Sally: I think Holly was a

generational puppy farmer.

328

Puppy farm dog as well.

329

'cause I think she was born there

330

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

331

Oh, oh,

332

Sally: not really been outdoors.

333

Hearing hadn't developed properly.

334

She couldn't, directional sound,

nothing like that that hadn't developed.

335

She'd had, she had like half a tail,

so I think she probably chewed that

336

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: oh,

337

Sally: at some point,

338

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

in stress.

339

Yeah, self mutilation.

340

Sally: she was absolutely

allergic to anything green.

341

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Grain?

342

Really?

343

Sally: the plants, she couldn't,

she couldn't go on any and I, I

344

believe it's because she'd never

built up a, a tolerance to it.

345

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh my gosh.

346

Sally: And it's

347

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, oh,

348

Sally: when the come out of a puppy farm.

349

was scratching all the time

and she was 6 when she came

350

and she was 13 when she died.

351

she was still showing new

sparkles, new behaviours.

352

Even like a week before she died,

she was still getting braver.

353

So, yeah.

354

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I guess obviously they would have

355

missed so They would have missed so

much key socialization, habituation

356

times, you know, a chance to, like

you say, to experience all that.

357

But Holly, Holly did inspire you a

lot, didn't she, in your journey?

358

Sally: Yeah, yeah, she well

there's her book that's out there.

359

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

360

Sally: me a lot because just doing

things like problem solving in the

361

house she went from a little worried

dog to this wild cardboard box ripper.

362

She was into everything and that

helped her confidence wonderfully.

363

You know, she's like,

364

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh.

365

Sally: this, so I can do this.

366

Yeah.

367

You'd see her,

368

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh,

369

Sally: of her in all sorts.

370

You'd get a delivery from Amazon and

she was in there with her three teeth.

371

Yeah.

372

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

free tea!

373

Oh, bless her heart.

374

Oh, what a legacy.

375

And so glad that she landed

on her paws with you.

376

What would you say is the most

important thing people should understand

377

before adopting a rescue dog, Sally?

378

Sally: I think maybe that they are

potentially, depending on their

379

history, not going to expect them not

to fall in love with you immediately.

380

They've

381

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

382

Sally: let down in one way or another.

383

gonna be scared, they're gonna be anxious,

and it's gonna be hard for them to trust.

384

But when they do

385

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

386

Sally: in love with you, it's

gonna be love of a lifetime.

387

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh.

388

Yeah.

389

Sally: Yeah.

390

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

think as humans, as humans

391

we don't deserve dogs, do we?

392

Yeah.

393

But no, like,

394

with rescue dogs, like I say, it

does take that time for them to,

395

you know, to sort of Trust, trust

you and build that bond and stuff.

396

So,

397

Sally: Yeah.

398

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: do

you have a particular, I mean, it might

399

be one of your own, but do you have

a particular rescue story that has

400

stuck with you over the years at all?

401

Sally: You know, I think it's got to be

402

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, Chips!

403

Yeah, I know Mr.

404

Chips.

405

Sally: because of

406

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Chips is still around.

407

Sally: Everything that is done through

me over the years is, is amazing.

408

'cause it, it was, the reason that I

studied to be a behaviourist was chips.

409

The

410

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, okay.

411

Sally: I started all of the businesses.

412

wrote, wrote all of my books was because

413

Pips did it through me,

414

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

415

Sally: He, I, I

416

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

417

Sally: he, he's this huge dog soul.

418

that came here to create support for dogs.

419

And he came and showed me what I

needed to do because he was so complex.

420

I had to learn so much about him.

421

And he literally changed my life.

422

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: oh wow,

423

Sally: So I think

424

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: aww,

425

Sally: to be Chips.

426

I

427

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

cheers, lovely, that's brilliant.

428

So moving on to our, our next section,

which is, we've touched on a little

429

bit, obviously life in the military and

a rescue, being a rescue dog handler.

430

Your background in the military

is so fascinating, but what was

431

that experience like for you?

432

Sally: would never not have done

it, but there were some stuff that,

433

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: oh,

434

Sally: there

435

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah,

436

Sally: stuff.

437

But yeah, I started off

training protection dogs.

438

So it was German Shepherds and

Rottweilers for apprehending criminals and

439

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: wow.

440

Sally: them down.

441

And then I After I'd done that for

a while, I went onto arms explosive

442

search, I had a beautiful black

Labrador called Jude, and I trained her.

443

She was handed over to the military

because her person had cancer, she

444

handed her Jude and her brother Max over

to the military, and I trained her as

445

an arms explosive search dog as I was

446

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

447

Sally: to be a trainer.

448

And then we went to Kosovo together.

449

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Really?

450

Sally: Yeah, it was amazing.

451

We

452

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I didn't know that.

453

Sally: yeah.

454

We, we spent six months in Kosovo and we

just looking at that chi hour we spent

455

six months in Kosovo in 99 to 2000.

456

So it was when it was all over the

news and everything, and I remember

457

landing and thinking I could die here.

458

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, my word.

459

What was that feeling like?

460

Wow.

461

That feeling that you could die.

462

Sally: and we got given all our stuff

because they give you morphine and

463

things to carry about in case you need

it and they give you these dog tags.

464

I am not a soldier.

465

I was never any good as being a soldier.

466

At one point, at one point, they

gave me these dog tags and they're

467

like a big chain and a short chain.

468

And I asked what a short chain

with a dog tag was for, and they

469

said, it's for your big toe.

470

Like, like, you know, if you come

home you're not, no longer alive.

471

yeah, I

472

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

on your big toe to,

473

Sally: And I, I said, naively,

does it not, is it not

474

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

oh, my right.

475

Sally: So I was under the

impression that you had to wear

476

it on your big toe all the time.

477

But anyway, back to dogs.

478

It

479

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

480

Sally: going out and finding

weapons and explosives and

481

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, okay.

482

Sally: in Kosovo with

the dog that I trained.

483

And then I came away from there,

but I had to leave her behind.

484

So

485

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh,

486

Sally: over to the next handler,

who was actually my friend.

487

So she

488

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: okay.

489

Sally: And then I went

490

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

491

Sally: Ireland as a drugs dog handler.

492

And

493

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, wow.

494

Wow.

495

Sally: in Northern Ireland

and then protection as well.

496

So,

497

But the arms explosive search was

good because you could, you did

498

spend a lot of time in helicopters.

499

So they come, you get on the helicopter,

they take you out somewhere, you drop, and

500

then what happens with that kind of search

dog is the dog goes then the trainer, then

501

you have a cover man with a rifle, and

then the engineers come up behind you.

502

So it's very frontline,

503

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Climate.

504

Sally: a great experience.

505

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

506

God, what an experience.

507

And what a life.

508

So, where, where are you positioned or

based anywhere after Northern Ireland

509

or did you come back to the UK or

510

Sally: Ireland.

511

Yeah,

512

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

the army?

513

Yeah.

514

Oh, wow.

515

So I didn't realize that I didn't

like helicopters . So I went in

516

the helicopter for the first time,

like 10 years ago in in Las Vegas.

517

And you, you go in the he helicopter to

land at the bottom of the Grand Canyon.

518

And I didn't realize I, I thought I

was gonna love the helicopter, but

519

no, I wasn't a fan of this helicopter.

520

God, it was going up

and it was all shaking.

521

I was, I was crapping myself.

522

My husband was laughing, my

husband was sat next to me.

523

He was laughing his ass off because

he just couldn't believe it.

524

But no, I wasn't a fan of the

helicopter, unfortunately.

525

A bit different to your

helicopter, I bet, but,

526

Sally: Yeah, it would have

527

Because, yeah.

528

Oh, I'm sorry you didn't

enjoy that, Nathan.

529

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh no, I don't really want to go

530

on one again, that's for sure.

531

So, what makes working dogs different from

pet dogs, and how do their needs compare?

532

Sally: Oh, that's an

interesting one, isn't it?

533

Because let's face it, working

534

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, that's what they're bred for.

535

Yeah.

536

Yes.

537

Sally: And so these people that work

with working dogs, and I've done both.

538

Working dogs for military and

companion dogs for hearing dogs.

539

And I can tell you that you

need more skill to train a

540

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

541

Sally: got a companion dog

that's bred to be a companion.

542

They don't really, you know,

they'll have a bit of fun but

543

it's all on their terms really.

544

It's not,

545

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

546

Yeah.

547

Yeah.

548

Yeah.

549

How are you?

550

Sally: dog, Bichon Frises Shih Tzus

those dogs actually being trained to go

551

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

552

Okay.

553

Excuse me.

554

This is the.

555

This is the.

556

Sally: in my opinion, are so much

more skilled than the people who can

557

rein in a German Shepherd with the

use of a crappy collar or a threat.

558

Yeah.

559

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, fascinating.

560

Sally: Yes,

561

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

562

That's sad, isn't it?

563

Yeah.

564

Yeah.

565

Sally: we're only coming now into

the point where we starting to

566

recognize and meet their needs.

567

It's not that, not that unusual to

go out and see a dog who has behavior

568

issues, who's never done enrichment.

569

You know, it's getting less unusual,

but things like a snuffle rug, and

570

a treat ball, and some basic kind

of interaction and engagement,

571

lot of dogs haven't even ever had.

572

And people find that when

they do that, their behaviours

573

start to settle down naturally.

574

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: They do.

575

But, and again, I think that, and

that's not really always at the fault

576

of the pet parent or the guardian

because they don't know no better

577

and it comes back to education.

578

You wouldn't know that that's

what you class as enrichment.

579

Sally: Yeah, and, and it's so, it's

kind of rewarding and it's also quite

580

sad to have someone get in touch with

you and say, I'm doing this, this and

581

this with her she's a different dog.

582

And that person's actually been to four

or five different trainers and have never

583

been told they can use a snuffer rug.

584

And,

585

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh my goodness.

586

Sally: They'll kind of say to

you, if only I'd met you first.

587

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

588

Sally: sad that that's the

589

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: It is.

590

Sally: are.

591

a lot of this, you've got to be the

boss, is still so prolific, that people

592

are that they are experts and a lot

of the people aren't even educated.

593

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No,

it's almost like he can shout the loudest.

594

Sally: Yeah,

595

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

the time, take the time and

596

observe what's going on.

597

Yeah brilliant.

598

Are there any lessons from

working dogs that pet parents can

599

apply to their everyday lives?

600

Good

601

Sally: I think so, yeah.

602

the job, give the dog a job,

603

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: job.

604

Sally: yeah.

605

Give them something to do, help

them to even use their mealtimes

606

a way to forage or search and I

think hands off and up to earth.

607

a little bit of dog body language and then

start to observe how the dog's responding,

608

both to them approaching them and also

to things around in the environment.

609

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

610

Sally: of observation because the

dog will tell you how they're feeling

611

and also help them to be busy.

612

Do what, their natural

needs, do what dogs do.

613

They need, they're needed to find food.

614

If we give them a bowl and they can just

eat it, that's a wasted opportunity.

615

They're needed to play, yet so

many dogs don't get to play.

616

And it doesn't

617

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No.

618

Yeah.

619

Definitely.

620

Yeah.

621

Yeah.

622

Sally: going to happen next, you,

you've maybe come from an unpredictable

623

background, and you're in a new

house, so everything's unpredictable.

624

Be predictable.

625

Create little patterns that show the dog

that they can, they can see what's going

626

to come next, what's going to come after

that, what's going to come after that.

627

Let them make little choices

because little choices will

628

help them to grow in confidence.

629

So create safety in that way

because that will help too.

630

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, definitely.

631

Yeah.

632

And it comes back to sort of you know,

understanding canine body language.

633

Again, I'm a big advocate on, you

know, educating pet parents, you

634

know, just, you know, taking a moment,

observing, understand, trying to, like,

635

learning about their body language

so you can, you know, work out what

636

the dog's trying to, to tell you.

637

Sally: Yeah,

638

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

important, isn't it?

639

Brilliant.

640

Sally: free resources to teach

you how to watch your dog now.

641

It's just, be absolutely careful about who

you choose because there are as many wrong

642

on what a dog's doing

as there are good ones.

643

So,

644

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

645

Sally: touch and ask where you can look.

646

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, absolutely.

647

Definitely.

648

I think that's where sort of Yappily

comes into play because it's a online

649

directory which is connecting pet

parents with ethical, kind, qualified,

650

you know, vetted pet professionals.

651

So always seek out someone like that.

652

Brilliant, thank you so much.

653

We're going to be moving on to our

next section, which is the role of

654

writing in DOD, in DOD, in dog advocacy.

655

We mentioned Sally, you've

written multiple books on

656

dog behaviour and training.

657

What impact do you hope your writing

has on pet parents and dog guardians?

658

Sally: just want people to understand

what their dogs need, and I also

659

want, in a, in a, a way that's

straightforward, and I also want people

660

to go easier on themselves, because

661

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mmm.

662

Sally: a lot of pressure on themselves

to have a well behaved dog, actually,

663

It's unnecessary pressure,

664

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

665

Yeah, definitely.

666

Sally: I'm not, I have written dog

training books, and I have written step

667

by step dog training books, because people

need to have a dog that they can handle.

668

But I've written much, much more

about what's going on inside

669

the dog, because I think it's so

670

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mmm.

671

Sally: that people understand

that the dog's trying their best.

672

All the time they're

trying their best with what

673

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

674

Sally: what they've inherited genetically.

675

also I want people to understand that

they are doing their best as well.

676

That they're

677

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

678

Sally: best.

679

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yeah, definitely.

680

Sally: so I want the bond to be great.

681

I don't want dogs to be

blamed for their behavior.

682

And I don't want people to feel

like they are under pressure to

683

have a perfectly behaved dog.

684

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, definitely, that's so important.

685

If someone is new to your work,

Sally, which book or books do

686

you recommend they start with

687

Sally: I think probably the first

one, Inspiring Resilience I've

688

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

in Spoke?

689

Sally: that and it's being

formatted at the moment.

690

So, I think probably by the time

that this, this podcast goes

691

out, the new one will be up.

692

But definitely that for General

Resilience and the Puppy

693

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

694

Sally: if you have a scared dog.

695

Yeah, so that's

696

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

it's, it's,

697

Sally: Sorry, Bob.

698

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: no,

no, so that's called Holly, is it?

699

The puppy farm one.

700

Sally: Folly's one is fearful dog

rehabilitation, life with a puppy

701

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That's,

702

Sally: And the other one is inspiring

resilience in fearful and reactive dogs.

703

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Lovely,

704

Sally: yeah.

705

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

brilliant.

706

I know you said that you're not a

practicing behaviourist anymore, but

707

how do you balance your different roles

as a mentor, a writer, and a writer?

708

Does each role influence the other?

709

Sally: Does it?

710

I don't think so.

711

I don't think it does.

712

I what I tend to do is I'll

either do Mentoring or webinars

713

full on and just focus on that

or I'll do a book full on because

714

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right,

715

Sally: between the two.

716

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I say.

717

Sally: writing tends to bring

out a bit of a flow in me.

718

It's like something else

is writing through me.

719

And then when I see what's on the

page, then I bring that into my

720

mentoring, but more the fundamental

being of it as opposed to Perhaps

721

the fact, does that make sense?

722

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, definitely.

723

Sally: sometimes I write something

and go, Whoa, I read that.

724

I didn't really write that.

725

Something wrote that through me.

726

And then that will come up when I'm

with a person that I'm mentoring with.

727

So,

728

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

So, do you mentor people to be able

729

to start writing for themselves, or?

730

I mean, I wish I could write, but I

just don't feel I'm that creative.

731

Sally: you, you probably caught,

I think everybody can write,

732

but it's hard to get going.

733

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I know you've inspired a

734

lot of people to get going.

735

Sally: Yeah, I did a couple of writing

courses when I had Canine Principals,

736

and that was, I did a 30 day dog writing

course dog book writing course, and

737

that put a lot of books out there.

738

They're actually out there, still

out there and doing well now.

739

So.

740

Yeah, I think everybody's

got a book in them.

741

You could write a book Nathan.

742

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Do you reckon?

743

Sally: Yeah, you could

write a book for dog walkers

744

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Could write a book for dog

745

walkers or some sort of memoir.

746

Because I've got an interest in life.

747

I've had an interest in life.

748

Do you, do you have like a, because your

life is interesting, do you, have you done

749

a memoir or an autobiography or anything?

750

Sally: No, I've got one I want to write

one about chips which is kind of loosely

751

about me as well And I have started

752

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: okay.

753

Sally: But you know what?

754

It's like is something else comes

up and something else comes up.

755

I'm actually On the screen behind

here, there's, there's a novel that

756

I started that I've just got back

into now, which is a crime novel,

757

so I'm going to have a go at that.

758

I've another go

759

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: You mean

you're, you're writing, you're writing

760

a crime novel or you're reading one?

761

Sally: I'm having a go at writing one.

762

Yeah.

763

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh wow!

764

Well that's different from dogs.

765

Sally: Yeah.

766

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

made you want, what's made you do

767

that or do you just wanted a change?

768

Sally: You know when you read a good

book, a really good book, and it makes you

769

feel kind of warm inside, and, and they

770

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Warm and fuzzy.

771

Sally: the end, so there's a bit of

like engagement between the characters.

772

And I, when I've finished reading a

book like that, I go, feel really nice.

773

I want to do that for other people.

774

And so I want to tell a story, even

if I only do one that people can read

775

and escape into and just have a nice

day sitting with their dogs, reading

776

a book, and that's what I want to do.

777

I want to give them that feeling.

778

So, yeah.

779

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I love that.

780

And I was thinking you were saying

obviously like having the time,

781

but you know, you've got two new

additions recently as well, so they're

782

definitely probably keeping you busy,

783

Sally: Oh, great.

784

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

785

So yeah, I mean to just tell our

listeners you've recently rescued

786

Darcy, who is a Chihuahua mix.

787

And then not so long later

'cause I was trying to tap you

788

up for one of my chihuahuas.

789

You.

790

You, oh yeah, I might still, yeah.

791

And and then all of a

sudden Miss Foxy appears.

792

Another Chihuahua.

793

Because you said to me for a while you

wanted a Chihuahua and now you've got two.

794

Sally: Yeah, I shoot, David, I,

what happened was because we've

795

got two 15 year old terriers and

they're proper old men And they

796

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh boys, and I did one of

797

Sally: Didn't want to play.

798

And really played in her foster home So I

was like, do I get another one now so that

799

Darcy's got a playmate that then I've just

got the two Moving forward when the boys

800

get and I got in touch with the rescue

that Darcy came from and she said we have

801

a very, very nervous chihuahua they didn't

advertise because they said she's so tiny

802

that if If we advertise her, everybody's

going to want her, but not everybody's

803

going to have the skill to deal with her.

804

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes,

805

Sally: and so I ummed and I ah'd,

and I ummed and I ah'd, and I

806

was like, should I, shouldn't I?

807

And they kept getting back in touch with

me and saying, Foxy started playing,

808

Foxy started playing with the other dog.

809

And you know what, Nathan, I believe very

much in things happening for a reason.

810

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: same.

811

Sally: in Carlisle and

812

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right,

813

Sally: my dad used to be married

to a lady who lived in Carlisle

814

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: okay.

815

Sally: My dad died and she married

again and she was a very close friend

816

and she was my step mom for a while.

817

And She died recently, Helen did,

I went up, I said, where's Fox?

818

I was going up to see Paul, her husband,

and give support, I said, where is Foxy?

819

And she was like 15

minutes away from Paul,

820

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, okay.

821

Sally: but four hours away from me.

822

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, okay.

823

Sally: Yeah,

824

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: had

you have not been going to see, had

825

you have not been going to see Paul,

you wouldn't have got, you wouldn't

826

have been able to see Foxy then.

827

So everything happens for a reason.

828

Sally: Yeah, I think it was almost

like the universe said, Okay, you've

829

got two reasons to go up here.

830

Two are equally important.

831

Two means you've got to go.

832

So I went.

833

Yeah.

834

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

835

Sally: So.

836

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right.

837

So you've got Foxy who's like a

long haired Chihuahua and then

838

Darcy here is a Chihuahua cross.

839

Sally: Yeah.

840

But the moment I walked into the

foster home and saw Foxy, because

841

I wasn't going to bring her home.

842

I was like I was still not sure, I just

was gonna meet her, see, you know, whether

843

I ought to bring her home and I took

Chips and Darcy with me and I walked

844

in and I saw this thing about that big

under the dining table going like that

845

I went, you're coming home with me.

846

And she did.

847

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, really?

848

You took her home?

849

Sally: Yeah.

850

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I

love that and what a great name as I

851

mean, like you say, they said she was

a bit nervous but Foxy to me is quite

852

a, a bold, brave name so I'd imagine

from what I'm seeing she's starting to

853

find her feet and settle, isn't she?

854

Sally: she is.

855

I wake up in the morning and

she's stood on my chest looking

856

in my face wagging her tail.

857

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, I love it and I just love that.

858

I love you've got your chai's finally.

859

Sally God, we've sailed through this

episode, so we're gonna, for the last

860

sort of five to seven minutes, we're

gonna sort of sort of wrap up and just

861

go over some final questions and points.

862

But yeah, what an amazing

story and, you know, you're an

863

inspiration, Sally, you really are.

864

If there's one thing that you wish all

dog guardians knew, what would it be?

865

Sally: What other people

think doesn't matter.

866

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm hmm.

867

Absolutely.

868

Sally: because I always

say I have no shame if

869

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

870

Sally: dog and my dog's reacting or.

871

People are looking on,

they're none of my business.

872

My dog's my

873

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No.

874

Sally: And,

875

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

876

Sally: that's, if you have to walk

away from someone to help your

877

dog feel better, then do that.

878

doesn't matter what people think

of you, doesn't matter what people

879

think of your dog's behaviour, the

only thing that's your business is

880

your wellness and their wellness.

881

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

882

So don't, don't worry about anyone else.

883

Isn't there a saying that those

that mind matter or those that

884

don't mind don't, I don't know, I've

probably got it completely wrong.

885

But no yeah, just concentrate on,

you know, your, you and your, your

886

dog and, you know, your world and

don't worry about anyone else.

887

Cause.

888

You know, they're on their journey,

you're on yours, so just, well

889

yeah, like you say, don't worry

about what other people think.

890

Sally: No.

891

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

for someone, for someone who has just

892

rescued a dog and feels overwhelmed,

what would you say to them?

893

Sally: I would say that I've felt

overwhelmed with every single dog

894

that I've rescued initially, and

never regretted seeing it through.

895

You get, you get the dog that

you get for a reason, that dog

896

will teach you something so very

important as part of your journey.

897

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Brilliant,

898

Sally: And so, stick with it, and

just try to stay aware, it does,

899

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

900

Sally: is hard at the beginning.

901

Foxy peed on my bed about six times

and, and, I mean, I'm sure, you know,

902

it is hard at the beginning, but what

you're dealing with is a little animal

903

who doesn't know where they're at, may

have been let down, may have had their

904

heart broken, and they will get better.

905

Yeah.

906

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

907

Time.

908

Time's a healer.

909

Sally: Yeah,

910

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Just takes time.

911

Sally: and they don't live long

enough, and so even the hard times, at

912

least there are times with your dog.

913

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

914

Yeah.

915

Brilliant.

916

And what would you say is the

most rewarding part of working

917

with and writing about dogs?

918

Sally: It's when people come to

you and say, your book changed

919

my relationship with my dog.

920

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, wow.

921

That's so powerful.

922

Sally: Because

923

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

924

Sally: because I'm like most

other people in the dog world.

925

In the dog world, the people that

are educated and do continue to work,

926

I don't have much, a great deal of

self belief in myself or my work.

927

And so, it always surprises always

really nice when somebody says,

928

Your, your book really helped me

get through those first few months.

929

And, and it, it's beautiful.

930

Yeah.

931

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, that's weird.

932

Makes it really, really rewarding

and makes it all worth it.

933

And yeah so Sally, I'm going

to put you on the spot.

934

Here's a question.

935

I've not prepared you for,

but we've got lots of amazing.

936

Well, we've got lots of amazing

guests lined up for the yappy hour.

937

We've got behaviors.

938

dog trainers vets, groomers lots of

different people that we've got coming

939

on over the next couple of months.

940

But if there was one person that

you think that we should invite on

941

the yappy hour within our canine

industry, who would that be and why?

942

Sally: Ah, I think you've already had him.

943

The the

944

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that's,

945

Sally: the person who I've

seen speak that's had the most

946

impact for me is Andrew Hale.

947

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yes,

948

Sally: He's, he's the most amazing man.

949

and I did a, a retreat,

a holiday and he came and

950

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: You,

951

Sally: on

952

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

you, you did.

953

Yes, I remember seeing

something about that.

954

Sally: Yeah, he had mean

955

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh,

956

Sally: He had the ruby tears.

957

He's just, he's,

958

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: really?

959

Sally: people that is just like a heart.

960

He's a heart in the world.

961

So, yeah,

962

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: He is.

963

No, so Andy Howe was, was, was

my first guest on the Yappy Hour.

964

And to the point where, obviously,

I had to record the first episode.

965

And I, and I, and I nearly chickened out.

966

So, not a lot of people will

know this, but the first

967

episode, I had a bloody cold.

968

Like I have got again now.

969

It was December.

970

So I rearranged him between

Christmas and New Year.

971

And it was coming up and I was

talking myself out of doing this

972

recording of this first episode and

Andy, he is, he was just amazing.

973

He was so understanding and

supportive and he was like, look,

974

I'll help you get through it.

975

Like I was like, oh, can we meet a

little bit later than we planned?

976

And he said, that's fine.

977

But if you can't do

today, I'm free tomorrow.

978

And he was just amazing.

979

He was my first guest and, like I

said, I nearly, I nearly pulled out.

980

I didn't think I could go through with

it and he was just really helpful and

981

supportive and yeah, he's just one

of life's gems or just everyone that

982

meets him says the same and what a.

983

What a space to be, to be in, to

be, you know, to be that person.

984

So Andy will be coming back on as well.

985

So he was my first guest, but

we will be getting him back on.

986

So that's great.

987

So I'm glad you've said Andy.

988

Sally, how can our listeners find

out more about you or if they

989

want to get in contact with you?

990

Let us know your email address,

your website, your social handles.

991

Sally: Okay, so it's just sally That's my

992

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Nice.

993

Sally: My

994

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Lovely.

995

Sally: is Sally Gutridge writer.

996

And my email is sally@sallygutridge.com.

997

So, that,

998

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Nice, nice and easy.

999

Sally: Yeah,

00:55:40,955 --> 00:55:42,825

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

And your, your book, your books

00:55:42,825 --> 00:55:46,955

are on Amazon and I'm sure other

bookstores, but there's lots of

00:55:46,955 --> 00:55:49,725

books on Amazon and Kindle versions.

00:55:49,735 --> 00:55:51,325

So yeah,

00:55:51,678 --> 00:55:54,548

Sally: I do try to answer

every email that I get.

00:55:55,108 --> 00:55:59,148

If I miss any, if I miss an email,

just send another one because it

00:55:59,178 --> 00:56:03,298

doesn't mean that I've ignored it,

just means that I've, I've missed it.

00:56:03,968 --> 00:56:04,288

So,

00:56:04,475 --> 00:56:06,085

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

life, life gets in the way.

00:56:06,838 --> 00:56:07,848

Sally: for looking like a corpse.

00:56:11,755 --> 00:56:12,005

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: You,

00:56:12,940 --> 00:56:15,945

Sally: my skin looks

00:56:16,435 --> 00:56:16,785

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: no,

00:56:16,947 --> 00:56:17,948

Sally: bad.

00:56:18,175 --> 00:56:21,635

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: to me

earlier today, was it a video podcast?

00:56:21,635 --> 00:56:25,455

And I was like, yeah, sorry,

it's going on YouTube.

00:56:25,635 --> 00:56:27,250

And I was like, you were like, oh, don't.

00:56:27,460 --> 00:56:31,990

I don't feel well, you know, and I was

like, oh bless you, like, I've got my,

00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:37,250

I'm full of cold and cough, you're full of

cold and cough, and we're both, and we're

00:56:37,250 --> 00:56:42,690

both still here, and you know, we're,

we're both still here, but no, thank you.

00:56:43,490 --> 00:56:47,830

for taking the time to be with me

today, Sally, on the Yappy Hour.

00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:51,290

You've got such a, an amazing story.

00:56:51,290 --> 00:56:55,070

And I just wanted to, you know,

hear and learn more about it.

00:56:55,070 --> 00:56:59,030

I know our listeners will

take so much away from this.

00:56:59,100 --> 00:57:01,140

Sally, I love the bones of you.

00:57:01,140 --> 00:57:03,420

You're, you're an inspiration.

00:57:03,705 --> 00:57:08,365

You know, I'm so glad that, you know,

that dogs brought you into my life

00:57:08,365 --> 00:57:12,775

and that you, you know, that you've

helped many other dog parents dog

00:57:12,805 --> 00:57:16,385

professionals and, and the little

dogs, you know, you are amazing.

00:57:16,385 --> 00:57:20,895

And you, you definitely should believe

in yourself because I think you're one of

00:57:20,895 --> 00:57:23,295

life's amazing people, like Andy as well.

00:57:23,305 --> 00:57:24,795

So, Sally.

00:57:25,090 --> 00:57:31,630

Thank you Yappy Hour today, powered by

Yappily, and I'll see you again soon.

00:57:32,333 --> 00:57:34,023

Sally: Yeah, thank you for inviting me.

00:57:34,403 --> 00:57:38,690

And yeah, been lovely

speaking up with you.

00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:40,650

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Sally.