Andrea, Ph.D., is a college transition educator and author who speaks with high school and college students and parents on the challenges related to the transition to college. She draws on her 25 years of experience as a college professor and as a university administrator.

Andrea is the creator of the Talking College™ card deck, the original card deck of discussion prompts for college-bound students and their parents (available in English and Spanish), co-creator of the Talking College™ Campus Visits Card Deck, and co-author of How to College: What to Know Before You Go (and When You’re There) (Macmillan), a student-facing book that guides high school graduates through their transition to college.

Dr. Brenner is a frequent contributor to articles about college transition challenges and a regular guest on podcasts focused on high school students and parents, and we are so lucky to have her with us! 

⭐ Questions to be answered:

• What are the biggest first-year challenges?
• What are common first-year mistakes?
• What are the biggest differences between high school and college academics?
• How many clubs/organizations should a first-year student join in college?
• And many more of YOUR questions!

'Laura bar.

Welcome to growing good humans podcast.

I am the owner and founder of emerging educational consulting, and we provide

one to one mentorship for parents and students from the beginning to end

of the college application process.

I often say I'm in the business of growing good humans and what better way to do that

by providing information and education.

I cannot.

express how honored I am today to have Andrea Brenner.

she is the author of a book that I keep literally by my side

on my desk sitting right here.

And if it's not here, it's because I've given it away.

So I think I order like 10 a month.

But anyway, I love it.

I am gonna let you go ahead and introduce yourself and when you introduce yourself,

I would also love for you to share with us why did you write this book.

Sure.

Well, thank you so much for having me, Laura.

My name is Andrea Malcolm Brenner.

I actually have a PhD in sociology, so I'm a sociologist by trade.

I was a sociology professor at American University for 20 years, studying

sociology of the first year students.

So I was the obvious pick when the university decided to create a first

year experience course there , and I spent close to four years creating and

piloting a first year experience course at American University in DC, which now

runs to a full year mandatory course for all of their incoming students.

I have.

Since left the university , to open my own business.

I,, as you mentioned, Laura wrote, with a coauthor of the book, how to

college, what to know before you go.

And when you're there and I created the talking college card deck , and I

have a series of card decks and their insider tips and discussion prompts

for college bound students and their parents and guardians, everything

about transitioning to college.

From high school., and to answer your question, I wrote the book with a

colleague, professor Laura Schwartz.

We were both teaching and realized that we had worked collectively with

probably 40, 000 first year students between the two of us over many years.

And we realized we had great information to share as college insiders.

And many books on the college transition are written actually by people who've

never worked on college campuses.

And so it was very important to us as professors to Kind of reach

out to those , almost college students and share our knowledge.

I often say to my clientele, I say, listen, your student

is going to get into college.

What we want for you as your child to succeed when they get there.

And I would agree with you that a lot of the consulting practices are

more focused on kind of getting into college, but without that really

deep reflection on, am I ready?

And what does it mean for me to be ready?

, how do you just to get started with some of the questions?

Is there like a front line list of questions or like, am I even ready?

How do you assess or how do you advise parents on assessing that?

That's a really great question.

And I don't think that there's one, journey for every student.

I think every student's different.

I think it's completely appropriate for an 18 year old, not to be ready

for college, as well as for an 18 year old to be almost ready for college.

I think it is the rare, 18 year old who excels academically,

socially, socially and emotionally.

So I would say to parents, you know, for sure recognize that, Colleges

are expecting messy freshmen.

They are expecting them not to be perfect on all of those avenues.

And so don't look for perfection to find out if your student is ready.

, you know, if they're lagging behind in all three of those areas, I said,

I would think maybe a gap year, maybe some , Pre transition training, but

for the most part, the average 18 year old who does fairly well in all three

areas is in my book, ready for college.

The other thing is that if a college has accepted you,, that means that you

are academically ready for that school.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that your interpersonal skills or your

professional development skills are ready.

And so, you know, I love to say to families, adulting skills don't come

in the college acceptance letter.

That's something that students and families need to be working on

simultaneous to apply to college.

That brings me to.

One of my next questions, which is how, like, when do you, in your world,

when do you like for families to start looking at this book and, and

we have adulting, when should they start integrating adulting skills?

Sure.

And I would say it's never too early to start.

, I think you can start adulting as early as middle school with some avenues.

But in terms of things like making your own dentist appointment, that's

something that every high school student should be able to do , sitting

with your students to show them how to book a plane ticket or a bus ticket.

If the student's not familiar with that again, that's something that can

be done early time management skills.

I'm handling money and budgets.

Those are things we can start very, very early I do say that the

book in particular, I would say is really the sweet spot would be

juniors and seniors in high school and I get from a lot of families.

I loved your book, but how do I get my 18 year old to read a book?

And part of that is why I created the card decks because they're a little more

tactile and easier manageable bite sized chunks but a great piece of advice for

anybody who has purchased the book and is interested in their student reading

it Is to get some colored post its And stick them in the book and figure

out if i'm a junior right now Maybe chapters one and four are appropriate

for my students to read this year.

And so maybe those are green post its.

And then maybe you write the pink post its are for fall of sophomore year.

I mean, excuse me, fall of senior year.

And the blue ones are for spring of senior year or for the summer after senior year.

So, you know, your child best.

And I think it's important to kind of.

bite sized chunks as you go along.

I raised and launched four kids.

Very happy about that.

And what I would typically do with a book like this is I would read

it and I would do the sticky notes.

And then I would try to find ways driving in the car when they're like

trapped with me or on a walk where I would say, you know, I was reading

this book and I was reading it.

Like, do you even understand the difference between a Dean?

And a provost or whatever all those like there's all this language that students

just don't know and I'm surprised constantly of how little students actually

even really understand what is college.

So from a parent perspective, I sometimes would read so I became the expert

and then I could kind of weave it in.

I know for me and my practice as an IEC, I have found it extremely helpful

when they graduate because they're ready and they can see themselves

and they're all the steps of the college application are behind them.

And, I just sent off a student to London and she, I met with her right before

she left and she came and she had.

Like for, I think she had like every page sticky noted.

I was like, I'm not sure that's effective, but like, she was

like, and what about this?

And what about this?

And she just felt so ready along the way, but I'm sure

everybody can find different ways.

And then I use this.

Even just reading to them without saying, oh, here, read another book.

I'll actually read a chapter or , I'll pause and just read a passage to

them during my consulting practice.

So, I'm just, I'm so grateful that this body of work is even out there.

Let me ask you,.

What are the biggest first year challenges that you've seen over the years?

Well, there, there are many, but I'm, I think I'll focus on just a few.

The first one, I would say is not being accepted into a group of choice.

That happens to a lot of first year students.

So that might be a friend group that you want to be involved in and that.

That's not a group that works out for you or Greek life fraternity or sorority

that does not accept you or even you might be the best singer in your high

school, but you might not make the acapella group in your college because

they're going to be a whole lot of best singers from high schools and the

competition is is much more intense.

So I would say being aware that sometime in your first year of college,

you probably won't be accepted at some point into a group of choice.

, yeah.

I would also talk about time management, which is kind of the answer to everything.

, and, I would say that's a real challenge for a lot of first

year students in high school.

You have a pretty strict schedule of where, what time school

starts and ends every day and your extracurriculars are planned.

Ideally, somebody is making you dinner, even shopping for

the food that you're eating.

All of that changes in college when you may be in class far fewer hours

than you are in high school and you have more free time than ever before.

Of course, you need to be using some of that time to study, but you do

have more free time to make friends, join activities, and that is something

that can be overwhelming to students who are used to a pre programmed life.

I would also say independent self care.

Is really, really challenging for some first year students.

So, if you are somebody who's been woken up by a parent rather than your alarm

clock, if you're somebody who a student who's had a family member, remind them,

bring your paper that's due today.

Do you have your soccer jersey?

Don't forget you have a dentist appointment and all of a sudden

you're expected to do it on your own.

That can be your tough transition.

So really learning all of those sort of independent self.

care pieces.

And, in an ideal world, they would start sometime at the end of high school.

So the transition will be easier in our practice.

We have a launch checklist.

And I often say when I do interviews with parents who we're going to work for, I

work with and for, I say things like, are they getting their driver's license?

Are they making their own doctor's appointments?

Are they waking themselves up in the morning?

And ideally I like those things to be happening.

Honestly, even in second grade, students can set their own alarms, right?

And so that is actually part of my practice is guiding families.

And I, you might've noticed that I say we guide parents and students

through this process, because I have found that parents don't always have

the foresight to know what's coming.

And it's not because they're not.

dedicated, amazing parents, but often just not understanding how much that

transition from being in this, like, safe little bubble out into a bubble

that's probably safe, but just unknown can really , really throw kids.

So I really like how you said it seems like you said self care time management

because all of a sudden they have all this time and I'm really struck by,

not getting into that group of choice.

I've actually never heard that before.

And I'm curious, for those who haven't read the book, what is your

tip for preparing students for that?

Well, I would say that it's a preparation for building resilient skills in every.

Free Avenue.

So it's not just because of this, but it might be how do you bounce back after

thinking, working really hard on a paper and getting a C on it and realizing

I need to learn something different.

I need to be approaching this in a different way.

So it's really those those resiliency muscles that I would say need to be built.

, you know, I think we expect the, Perfection of the

college experience, right?

That your best friend is going to be your roommate and your roommate is going to be

your best friend and, you know, everything is going to work out swimmingly.

And I think a lot of students are disappointed because they

go in expecting perfection.

So building resilience muscles is super, super important.

I think that can be started certainly in high school.

And if you know how to bounce back and you think in advance, and I love

to say this to students, think of an advance of the worst possible scenario.

If the worst possible scenario is the sorority does not accept you.

What is your backup plan, right?

Do you have a club or organization you're going to join?

If Greek life is not for you, is there another acapella group or

a different activity that you can join if this one doesn't work out?

So going in with a plan B is always a great avenue.

You're making me feel a little relieved.

I was starting, my heart was starting to beat.

I was feeling really guilty because I was going to admit that I told my stepdaughter

who's applying to college right now, she's like, I can't wait for my roommate.

We're going to be best friends.

We're going to go eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Now she's a senior who hasn't even gotten to college yet.

And she has all these images and visions about her, this relationship.

She's going to have an, I was pretty harsh.

I was like, you know, that's probably not going to happen.

What's probably going to happen is you're going to get a girl, you're

going to have a friend, a roommate.

They're going to have a boyfriend.

You're going to come home at 11 o'clock at night.

And that.

That roommate is going to be like with her boyfriend in the room with a

sign that says sleep somewhere else.

Like I went on and on to kind of like, and she was kind of shaken,

but later she talked about it.

And she's like, I'm really glad you said that to me because I realized

I might have some fantasies about what this is going to be like.

And I imagine.

Parents create fantasies of what they want their first year child's experience to be.

And what is your advice for parents when they get that call?

I'm going to come home because I didn't get into my sorority or my

roommate is absolutely a nightmare.

What do you, how do you advise parents on coaching those kids

through that, through that?

So that's something I talk about a lot.

I speak to families at high schools and colleges across the country, and

that's something I always talk about when I talk to high school parents is,

talking about, instead of immediately using your parent in a text, often

mom in a my life is falling apart.

What should I do?

Really have your student prepped to say, here's what happened.

I've thought it through.

Here's my plan.

What do you think?

Right.

So, , my son who grew up, you know, with the mom who wrote how to college

in his first week of college lost his student ID and his driver's

license, but he has been trained by me to know, don't call to tell me the

problem call to tell me the solution.

Right.

So it may not be immediate.

the plan may not be fantastic, but at least there's adult

problem solving skills.

And so I would say that, you know, I have, really been having a hard time,

not really getting along with my roommate, but I went to my RA because that's what

I'm supposed to do on a college campus.

And she, or he kind of teased out some ideas with me.

Maybe we made a roommate contract.

Maybe I about some of my challenges with my, with another friend

or with my roommate directly.

So again, I think it's something that parents we can do is if we get

that call, my life is falling apart.

What do I do?

We throw that back on our students and say, come up with a plan.

What do you think you should do rather than immediately being the fixers?

We're very good at fixing, but this is the time for them to

learn to be fixers for themselves.

Wow.

Will you say those, I think you said four, four steps.

So I would say, once again, have, in advance of any problem, right?

In advance of them going to college, come up with language

that works for you and your family.

In my family, we say, don't call me when you have a problem asking me what to do.

Call me when you have teased out a solution.

No, it does not have to be a perfect solution.

I might help you tweak it, but it's feel so powerful.

I think as a new college student to say, I have a problem.

I've thought it out.

Here's my plan.

What do you think?

Rather than I have a problem, what should I do?

That is just such an incredible piece of advice.

I know we are going to make sure we get that out to as many families as

there, as our, all of our seniors are transitioning and these calls

are already starting to happen.

And so it's just so valuable.

Let's see.

I have a question.

How many clubs or organizations should a first year student join?

So I love this question.

I do have some advice.

It's something sort of I created myself, and I would

say it works for most students.

, and this is a This is tough because students have just come off the wheel of

trying to show leadership on their high school transcripts, and sometimes they

can't get off that wheel, and they either join too many clubs and organizations,

or they have so much free time.

They think I'm just gonna Netflix.

So I suggest three.

I suggest find a club or organization that meets a passion area, whatever

that might be something that just is fun, something you love something.

That's something for you.

I say, join a club or organization.

That's something for others.

So that might be a volunteer piece that might be.

Greek life where there is a philanthropic arm, whatever it

might be through spiritual life, through a religious organization.

So something for others.

So one is for you, one is for others.

And then the third is something that has to do with your

either career or academic path.

So that could be a business entrepreneur club.

It could be an engineering society.

And I always get asked, well, what if I don't know what I want to do with my life?

That's okay.

It can change something that interests you then and there.

what you think you might want to study, what you think you of the classes that

you're taking, if they interest you.

And there are so many, on college campuses.

So again, something for you, something for others, and then something that's directed

towards your academic or career path.

Hmm.

Love that.

Let's see.

I have another question here.

Oh, I think this is a really good one, because I've experienced this

firsthand, especially when you said like students who did really well, right?

They were in the a cappella band or they were straight A students and never got

a B or maybe just one B and they go to college and they're kind of shocked.

So maybe if you could explain to our audience, the difference between high

school academics and college academics.

Sure.

I love this question.

There are a lot of differences.

I can touch on some of them.

One of the things that you might have heard as a high school parent

is your students saying I didn't do well on this assignment, but

it's okay because there's six more assignments in this marking period.

I can still bring up my grade.

That doesn't happen in college.

In college, there are fewer assignments in every course.

You may have a course that just has two papers.

And so therefore These papers are weighted much more heavily so that

you don't have sort of those all those extra bells and whistles and extra

credits to help you bump up a grade.

It usually is you've got these 3 or 4 papers or assignments,

and that is your grade.

There's no such thing as sort of that extra credit in college.

So I would say that's 1 big difference between high school and college.

Another one, is that high school teachers send a lot of reminders and

give a lot of reminders to the students.

So it might be an email reminder, might be on the classroom portal.

It might be literally written on the board, that, you know, don't forget

next Thursday, this thing is due.

That doesn't happen in college either.

And as a college professor, there was always.

Always a student if not two in every first year class that I would teach

who would look around and all of the students would say Glad that paper's due.

I turned it in midnight last night and that student with the wide eyes

said oh my gosh Nobody reminded me.

I didn't know it was due So those reminders don't come in college.

That's something that college expects you as a young adult to know So making

sure you have , planner, whatever kind of planner you, you, works for your brain,

, and making sure you're writing down all of the assignments on all of your syllabi.

So I would say that's another really big difference, , is kind of, , really not

getting those reminders from teachers.

And then I'm just going to throw in a third, although I could

probably give you 20,, which would be the quantity of reading.

is very different.

So in high school, you might be asked to read two chapters in a week.

And in college, you might be asked to read a book in a week.

Granted, you have much, much more free time than you had.

it's, you're, you're in class in high school for about 35 hours a week in a

classroom setting and in, college in about, about 12 to 15 hours a week.

So you really do a lot of.

time outside of the classroom, but you are going to be expected to read

much larger quantities in college.

We, in our practice, we work hard at making sure it's almost like the clubs

and the support services and we try to have our students know Even when

they're applying what clubs they would want to join, but we've never framed

it that amazing way that you did.

So I'm really excited to use that in our practice.

And then also for academics, we always make sure our students know exactly

what learning resources are available.

So is there a writing center?

Where is it?

Mark it on the map.

Like, how do you get there?

And don't wait.

Do not, do not, if you're not getting where you need to, do not wait two weeks

to go to the writing center or to get a tutor or because in your well said

words is everything goes pretty fast.

The semesters are shorter.

The assignments are shorter.

So . That's extremely helpful.

, can I if I could just interject, I love that you mentioned campus resources

because I haven't had a chance to do so.

And I, I'm a huge believer in knowing in advance.

So looking at, look, this is the, this is the silver lining to covet on college

campuses that everything is now online.

So, if you're looking at colleges, or you're even, you know, what

college you're going to be attending.

You can map all these things out in advance, right?

Am I going to need a math stat lab?

Am I going to need a writing center?

, am I going to need a counseling center, a fitness center?

And then as well, looking up all those clubs and organizations, I think a

lot of parents think they'll figure that all out during orientation.

And as I say in the book, orientation can be disorienting for a lot of students.

It's a ton of information and the students are just trying to function.

So the earlier, the better, and the more you can know going in.

The better.

I have a question from the audience about kind of this in high school, some direct

tips around time management, maybe, , impulse control and electronic devices.

I actually had, , a nephew who went to college and actually had to drop

out because he had all the freedom in the world to do electronic gaming.

And he literally came home two months later because he found himself completely

addicted and he was an amazing student.

You never would have predicted this.

So any, have you ever had that happen?

And we only have one minute left because I honor this 30 minutes, but

maybe that's our last, like, what are those practical things parents in high

school can do now around time management and impulse control around devices?

That's a really great question.

And I would say the earlier the better starting to talk about those things,

maybe not even waiting till senior year.

So sitting down with your student, each one of you writing a list of the things

you believe that student needs to work on the student writing for themselves.

You writing about their student.

Here's a list of the things I need to think I think you need to

work on before heading to college and who is going to kind of you.

And maybe it's not the parent.

Maybe it's an older sibling.

Maybe it's a neighbor, an uncle because we can't be teachers

You know, in all avenues.

So I think that a student who really knows that they get some stress relief from

gaming, they need to have a plan in place.

So then when they do have free time, they have, they have, they

know how to limit their hours.

So I think every student is different, but the earlier, the better starting

to talk about it and plan for it.

I love, I love, I love, I love what you say, say, say we often in our practice.

Call ourselves mentors because we see the, the job of the student, right, is to

branch out and individuate from parents.

And so where do they go to get this kind of coaching and support around

setting some of those limits and boundaries for themselves, that

self efficacy and I think I can't.

Thank you enough for doing this because I think it gives and empowers

parents ways to be able to backwards plan like this is where we're going.

And as parents, we need to create starting and even 8th, 9th, 10th grade systems

in place that help those students.

Own the decisions in their life so that they can have that self efficacy to make

those kind of decisions and be able to balance all of that overwhelming, , input

that happens when they transition.

Andrea, thank you so much.

And I hope this is the beginning of many conversations we get to have with you.

Thank you so much for having me, Laura.

My pleasure.

Okay.

Talk to you later.

Okay.

Talk to you later.