Looking for further guidance and support on ADHD Women's Wellbeing? Check out my resource library here or search for any topic you need on the Podcast here.

What if the conversation you needed to hear wasn't one Kate was leading, but one where she was being asked the questions for a change?

Welcome back to a More Yourself Monday episode. This week I'm sharing a conversation I had as a guest on the Limited Time Only podcast, hosted by Esther Stanford and Susie Riddell. It's a beautifully produced show that feels like a proper chin wag over a cup of tea, and I had such a good time talking to them.

In this conversation, we go into some topics that don't always get as much space on the main podcast: what my life looked like before diagnosis, the shame that came with finally getting those answers, and the very real experience of sensory overload and limited social batteries. We also talk about how burnout can creep in quietly rather than arriving all at once, how hormones and perimenopause can amplify everything, and why decompression and downtime aren't luxuries; they're necessities.

I hope you find it as useful and validating to listen to as I found it to record.

In this episode, we cover:

• What Kate's life looked like before her ADHD diagnosis at 40, and how her daughter's struggles during the pandemic finally connected the dots
• Why the initial reaction to diagnosis is so often shame rather than relief, and how that shifts over time
• Sensory sensitivities, limited social batteries and why understanding these is so freeing
• Why ADHD and trauma are deeply interlinked, but trauma does not cause ADHD
• How fluctuating hormones and perimenopause amplify ADHD traits, and why this hits neurodivergent women harder
• What ADHD burnout actually looks and feels like when it builds slowly rather than arriving all at once
• Knowing which "season" you're in and why that matters before making any big decisions
• Why decompression time is non-negotiable, not a nice-to-have
• Simple daily practices: movement, outdoor time and breathwork to regulate your nervous system
• Learning to say no, protect your bandwidth and stop performing for everyone else

Timestamps:

• 00:00 - Welcome to this More Yourself episode
• 01:00 - Introducing the Limited Time Only podcast and what this conversation covers
• 02:58 - Kate's story: life before diagnosis and how her daughter's struggles led to both of their assessments
• 07:34 - Why girls with ADHD get missed, and the epidemic myth
• 08:50 - The shame that comes with diagnosis, and navigating it publicly
• 10:33 - Labels, autism, and finding language that doesn't hold us back
• 15:02 - Sensory sensitivities, limited social batteries and permission to protect your energy
• 18:27 - The parent experience: protecting yourself when you're already pouring into everyone else
• 23:14 - Hormones, perimenopause and why ADHD traits can feel amplified in midlife
• 28:57 - Gabor Maté, trauma and ADHD: why Kate disagrees with the causation theory
• 34:56 - Burnout, boundaries and knowing your bandwidth
• 40:42 - The empowerment of finally knowing your limits
• 49:50 - How to recognise which season you're in
• 52:33 - What ADHD burnout really looks like when it creeps in slowly
• 55:22 - Simple practices: movement, breathwork and giving yourself buffers

Links and Resources:

• Find my popular ADHD workshops and resources on my website here.
• Follow the podcast on Instagram: @adhd_womenswellbeing_pod
• Get my book, The ADHD Women's Wellbeing Toolkit (also available in ebook and audiobook) here
• Join the More Yourself membership community here
• Listen to the Limited Time Only podcast on Spotify here and Apple here
• Follow Limited Time Only on Instagram: @limitedtimeonlypodcast

Kate Moryoussef is a women's ADHD lifestyle and wellbeing coach and EFT practitioner who helps overwhelmed and unfulfilled newly diagnosed women with ADHD find more calm, balance, hope, health, compassion, creativity, and clarity.

Foreign.

So.

Hi everyone.

Welcome back to a Monday More Yourself episode.

I'm Kate Moore Youssef here, as always, on the ADHD Women's well Being podcast.

And today we're going to do something a little bit different.

Over the past few months, I have been a guest on other people's podcasts and I love doing this.

First of all, I love meeting new people, I love chatting to different people, but I also love being able to share what I know about ADHD and I guess the support and the guidance and all my insights and personal experience, which sometimes I don't get to do on the ADHD Women's Wellbeing podcast because I'm so interested in what my guests.

Have got to say.

But as you know, I do like to have a little waffle on there Anyway, and so today I'm going to be sharing with you a conversation I had on the Limited Time Only podcast.

And it's a fantastic podcast.

I really loved speaking, speaking to Esther Stanford and Susie Riddell, who are the podcast hosts.

And if you've not listened to the Limited Time Only podcast, I'd highly recommend it.

It's like this sort of fun mix of chats and comedy and sketches and interviews, and they have a lovely sort.

Of like chin wag.

It kind of feels like you're having like a chat with them over a cup of tea.

And it's brilliantly produced and I was really happy to be on there, was really honored to be chatting to them.

And Susie is also on the Archers.

Now, I don't listen to the Arch, but it's an institution and that is very cool.

But if you're not listening in the UK and you don't know what the Archers is, please don't worry.

But it's a BBC drama, I think you'd call it, that's been going on for years and years and years and years.

And so that was just super exciting and it was great to be a guest, it was great to speak to them and really break down some stuff that I think sometimes I'm still processing as well.

So in this episode, Esther, Susie and myself talked about lots of different things.

And I, I think this is why.

I wanted to share it with because maybe it's some kind of topics that we don't touch so much on the podcast and really sort of going down to more granular level of what ADHD looks like in women and girls and how it can look so different and why it's so often missed and why getting an ADHD diagnosis can bring both Difficult emotions, grief and all sorts, but also a sense of relief.

And we also touch on the conversation of sensory sensitivities and our limited social batteries, how that can affect our daily life, something that I definitely experience.

And how to spot the early signs of burnout so we can protect our energy with better boundaries, decompression and downtime.

And finally, we talk about just some simple habits like spending time outdoors, moving our body and breathing exercises to help regulate our nervous systems.

So I really hope you enjoyed this conversation with the ladies from the limited Time only podcast.

Here it is.

And I will speak to you all very soon.

I love your podcast, by the way.

I've been listening to it for ages and so it is a bit weird, I know, but it is me hearing someone's voice.

Yeah, often when I'm jogging.

Actually, I listen to it when I'm jogging a lot.

Oh, that's good.

Nice to know that is motivating enough.

For you to listen to it while you're jogging.

Yeah, it's brilliant.

You were diagnosed at 40?

Yes.

What did your life look like growing up and what led to that diagnosis?

Yeah, so my life looked like undiagnosed adhd, but I didn't know what that was.

So I would just constantly question myself all the time.

Why do I do this?

Why do I hyper focus and then become disinterested?

Why am I flaky?

Why am I disorganized?

Why can't I finish anything?

Why is that such a struggle for me?

But something else I can do with my eyes closed.

Like, I just, my, my husband was just.

He had no answers for me either, but I just wanted him to be like, oh, it's because you're this, or it's because it's that.

And I. I literally couldn't answer it.

And the weird thing is, is that I've got two brothers with ADHD and they were diagnosed when they were kids.

And so for me, it was just never.

I never really thought I had ADHD because it didn't look like my brothers.

And I wasn't outwardly hyperactive, even though it is quite obvious that I can't really sit still.

I don't like sitting.

I'm quite restless, I'm much better moving around, all of that.

But I just wasn't bouncing off the walls.

So ADHD just wasn't considered before I'd even looked at it.

And the reason why I was looking at it, it was because one of my daughters, and it was in the middle of the pandemic and I was Homeschooling as she was nine years old, and she'd already been struggling at school anyway, but very similar to me, she was, you know, really well behaved, respectful to teachers, no issues, sort of with behavior or friendships at that time.

And she just couldn't sit on a chair.

She couldn't process the information.

She got very overwhelmed very quickly.

We were looking at things like dyslexia and dyscalculia already and dyspraxia.

So there was already this mix of things that we were looking at, but we were not getting any answers.

And it was when I was homeschooling and myself and both of us trying to sit on a chair, me trying not to lose my rag with her, me trying to be as tolerant and patient as possible.

Not easy.

And her just wanting to not be anywhere in front of, you know, a comprehension or a computer and not even be wanting to sit in a chair.

And I was like, what is going on here?

So I just googled.

I mean, this is way before AI, but I was, like, putting all the symptoms and all the things in.

It just kind of came back of, like, symptoms of girls, you know, with adhd.

And it was, you know, pretty much, you know, tick, tick, tick again.

You know, she's.

Every profile is quite different, but her ADHD looked very similar to how I then remembered myself with adhd, who was quite happy, sort of just pootling around and daydreaming and being outside and not liking pressure and just wanting to sort of do their own thing.

And it just made so much sense there.

And then it was like, okay, right, we need to go for an assessment for my daughter, and I need to go for an assessment as well.

And, you know, and that was the very beginning.

And.

And that was purely because I needed someone to answer questions that no one could answer before.

And that was when there was so many dots being connected, like it was constellation.

It was like we're looking up in the sky and like, suddenly being able to, oh, no, I understand about my grandpa and understand about that mom, and I understand about that person.

And it was just a constant understanding and reflection and then being able to put things right.

Okay, we've got.

We've got some answers now.

Let's start changing things and putting things into perspective and looking at tools and Ways and strategies and self compassion and all the things that no one was.

We were.

None of us were operating from.

So, yeah, that was kind of where it all began, because when.

Because girls weren't ever thought to have adhd, weren't they?

Because, like you say, they present so differently.

And, And.

And I constantly hear, oh, it's an epidemic, and everybody's been diagnosed and everybody's got flipping adhd.

Susie and I have had many discussions about this because I have a lot of neurodiversity in my family, and I've asked my daughter if she's okay with this, but my daughter has autism and dyslexia, but I struggle to say that because you wouldn't know she has autism if you met her.

She is very social, but she has a very low battery.

But it's like the volume in her body's been turned up.

So she's very sensitive to noise.

She can hear the ticking of the clock in the corner of the room and.

And.

And it's weird, isn't it, how those sort of labels, like, I don't like saying she has autism because people, particularly of a certain generation, have a.

Have an idea of what that looks like, and I don't want her to be held back by what that opinion might be.

And it doesn't sum her up, but she does have it, and it is important to know and to recognize and then to put those boundaries in place.

When you were diagnosed with adhd, did.

What did you feel?

Interestingly, it.

It was shame.

It was stigma.

There was taboo.

I didn't want to talk about it again.

This is, you know, six years ago, nearly no one was talking about ADHD in women and girls.

I felt like it was like this.

This thing to be ashamed of, and people would.

Exactly the same way as you look at it through this lens of, oh, she's chaotic, she's a shit show, she can't get her act together.

You know, she's obviously very disorganized and messy.

And it was just like every negative narrative that I would think about adhd, and that has been put out there in the media and has been sort of perpetuated in.

In conversations about, like, bad parenting and all these different things.

And I was thinking, I don't want to admit to this because this is showing everybody that I. I'm not coping with life.

So it took me a really long time.

And that wasn't, you know, part of me was like, I'm gonna come out, I'm gonna talk about it, I'm gonna Launch this podcast and I'm gonna.

And then this huge vulnerability came out, and I was thinking, oh, my God, I would just want to hide away and not talk about this.

So I was kind of navigating two things and wanting to start the podcast and find out all the answers and have these conversations and get curious with incredible experts for not only myself, but for so many other women.

Navigating what I knew, because I've been reading all the Facebook posts and all.

Just different communities and things.

Like, there was just so many women out there who were just lost and struggling as well.

Also navigating shame.

Also navigating, well, what does this mean?

Am I, as I say, am I doomed for the rest of my life?

And I understand what you're saying about your daughter because you don't want her to sort of be.

And I'm saying this inverted commas, like, labeled.

Yeah.

But sadly, you know, autism has been just been put in one box of, again, generalization, like Rain man or this or that.

You have.

If you're autistic, then you have to tick these boxes and you have to show up like this.

And we understand this.

It's a spectrum.

And I wonder about language and I wonder how different it would be if.

There was different ways of discussing these,.

About sensitivities or processing or just all different ways.

But just to say my daughter's autistic straight away, I understand people who think, oh, she's not sociable and she's not able to, you know, hold on a conversation, and she's not able to do X, Y and Z, and that's just wrong.

But we've got to find a way for people to understand themselves without the shame, without thinking that they're having to be.

Having put labels on them, but also so they can feel relaxed, authentic calm with who they are, how they show up in the world, what choices they make.

And I've got a daughter very similar to you, and she's not been diagnosed with autism.

She's been diagnosed with adhd.

But a lot of the traits are what we would say are autistic in.

In girls.

But she is like the life and soul of the party.

She's hilarious, she's got amazing friends.

But her social battery, like, when she needs to just go to bed, she needs to go to bed.

Noise, people, smells.

But why should there be so much shame and stigma around that?

Yeah, I agree.

I read.

I don't know if you've read it, but I read Miranda Hart's book about her having Lyme disease.

But also recognizing that she is a highly sensitive person.

She has a limited social battery.

So, yes, she can be fun and yes, she pushes through things and.

And that really resonated with me, the highly sens person thing, because.

Well, I mean, it's been mooted to both me and Suze that were adhd and actually last year I used chat GPT for something and then we.

And then I had quite a long conversation and then I asked it something at the end and we were on holiday and I said, do you think I might be neurodiverse?

And ChatGPT, he said to me, with the greatest of respect and sensitivity, I suspect your audience.

I think you probably have traits of both.

And I burst into tears because it was this feeling of, oh, God, my life kind of makes sense.

How I operate kind of makes sense.

There's often like.

I don't know if this is quite the right word, but comorbidities with.

I have Hashimoto's hypothyroidism that often goes hand in hand with it because it's the sensitivity to the world.

So it's like a.

It's like a great skill because you pick up on everything in the room and I'm noting everybody's micro expressions, but.

And I can process really quickly.

But then if you ask me to do something, it's almost too much.

And.

And I think like you say that.

Oh, I think like you say like the label of.

Of.

Of being your autistic or your adhd, it sort of.

It presents something outwardly initially and then people build up this sort of image.

And so with the Miranda Hart book, I really like the idea of sort of identifying as a highly sensitive person, felt gentler.

But you're right.

I don't know if you watch the Chris Packham documentary about autism and he said, you know, if you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person, because there's so much range in that.

And I think.

So the work you're doing is so brilliant in that you're.

You're pushing that conversation out there.

Because when I think that I might be neurodiverse, I feel quite emotional about it.

I feel a lot of grief.

And the word I actually wrote down was shame, which is what you.

Not because.

And I wouldn't judge anybody else for it.

Yeah.

But this internal thing, like family members.

Oh, bloody adhd, everyone.

It's that those voices, aren't they?

So you think I don't want to speak up about this.

I don't want to tell anybody.

And I wonder if Covid, the whole Covid thing exacerbated things for.

For people as well.

But.

But I.

Yes, there's the idea of the.

The shame, but also that ability to.

Then actually, it's kind of, if you do get a diagnosis, you can step into your life more fully in a way, because you understand yourself.

Yeah, yeah, and I think we do.

Like, both of you are sort of alluding to the fact that there's.

There's fear of judgment and what people say.

And again, it's sort of like comes back to over.

You can't have adhd.

And, you know, with respect to our parents generation, they may not go into the amount of detail that we've gone into of research and understanding.

And, you know, many of us are on social media, we're listening to podcasts.

We're able to understand the nuances, and they sort of skim it.

I'm not saying anyone's a Daily Mail reader, but, you know, very often there will be sort of more negative connotations in that.

In.

In the Daily Mail of that ilk, where it is like, it's over diagnosis.

It's a pandemic.

They want put everyone on, like, stimulants, and they're not understanding the women's identity and experience, lifelong experience of the internalization of.

Not of feeling like we have to behave or mask in a certain way or shape in a certain way, or have relationships, friendships, communicate.

We've never been given an alternative before.

And I think, you know, Susie, what you said about COVID that was the only time we've ever had a pause button in life.

And that pause button allowed a lot of people to reflect, to be at home, to breathe.

And it ca.

It was like an emergence as well, of the conversation around neurodivergence.

So it was kind of like this collision of internal and external, kind of like, you know, whatever you want to call introspection or whatever that might be.

So we were able to be given that opportunity to say, well, what if, you know, this.

This is who I am.

And we are able to know what we're sensitive to and what we like and what we don't like, what we've masked, what we've internalized.

Like, no one can take that away from us.

And I've only just begun to be more honest about it.

You know, talking about things, even the other day we were talking about, you know, spray deodorant and roll on deodorant and smells and normally with family members who'd be very dismissive about anything like that.

Like, oh, just get on with it, stop being so precious, stop being so sensitive.

And there was a conversation around, yeah, oh, I can't bear per.

And I can't bear this and I can't bear being in a room where there's no windows open and you know, I try and drop these little nuggets off.

You know, that's, you know, sensory processing, that's understanding what, you know, what inflames your nervous system and makes you go into that sort of like very hyper vigilant stress, you know, you know, sympathetic state in your body which causes all this inflammatory stuff.

Which is why we understand things like autoimmune conditions, gut issues, thyroid issues, mental, more mental health issues.

It's all an inflammatory response to not feeling safe in our bodies, in the external world.

So that is why it's so important to discuss all the different connections.

Because when you understand yourself and when you know what those triggers are, you are then able to prepare yourself and you can't put yourself in this cotton wool and you can't put yourself in a, in a, in a place where it's like I'm not going to, you know, put myself in any situation.

Like we have to, we do have to live in this world if you want to, you know, show up and work and parents and all of that.

But we're allowed to make different choices or protect ourselves so we, our nervous systems can feel safe and we can control that safety now when we know what's going to trigger it.

Because it's, it's extra hard for parents, isn't it?

Because you're, you're having, you want to protect yourself but you're, but I mean, I know it should be that you put yourself first, but we all put our children first, you know, without thinking.

So you're kind of, you're protecting, you're, you're in this protection mode possibly way more than somebody who is neurotypical and that's exhausting.

Yes.

And, and that, the exhaustion thing, I find I've.

This is where sort of at the moment I'm really trying to zone in on, on that personally because I know that I've always been, I've always needed a nap since I was, well, I remember being university and needing naps and probably not thinking it was that weird.

But as I've gone through life I've thought, well, I've always, always been the sort of person who needs, I need to have a power nap.

And it's only now that I go, well, that's probably why.

And this idea that you're either.

Your windows either open or shut, and it's.

And it's.

It's either one or the other.

And I. I have.

My naps are getting longer and longer.

But I Now, don't berate myself for needing to go to sleep in the middle of the day, because I know there is no point in just keep going and pushing through because nothing's gonna.

Nothing's going to get done.

I think that's the thing, isn't it, with.

Once you start to understand these things about yourself, you give yourself permission to then have these experiences.

Yeah.

Talking about COVID I remember the first day everybody left the house for the first time, and I was on my own for the first time in two years.

I sat on the kitchen floor in my pajamas, had all these things I was going to achieve that day, and I stayed in my pajamas and I sat on the kitchen floor in front of the island, on.

On the floor, and I cried for three hours.

And somebody said to me, I told somebody about it.

They were like, what the hell's wrong with you?

And it took me a while to understand it was about.

I just didn't have any stimulation.

For the first time in two years, there was no one else in the house.

And it was a release.

I felt joy.

I just.

Just was sobbing, and it was.

Just felt like it needed to come out of me.

And I wasn't sad.

I wasn't.

It just.

Was just stuff that needs to come out.

But now I kind of understand that.

And sometimes I'll say I have to get out the house.

I need to because my husband works.

I just.

I.

You don't understand.

I need.

We even turn the fourth.

A fourth bedroom into two rooms so that I could have my own space.

But sometimes my husband working next door, the noise aggravates me.

But now I get that that's probably just the way I'm made, and that's.

That's okay.

So this sort of.

I think sometimes maybe the grief that this is around it is.

It's okay as well.

It's sort of like a.

A.

It's.

It's almost like permission.

And that's part of the tears as well.

100%.

Yeah.

So many women feel like that it's this permission slip to finally be who we are.

We're creating someone new.

It's not like this Persona that suddenly just comes out.

It's always who we've been, but we've been stifling it.

Repressing it, pushing down, not allowing it.

Which is why again, we see so many women, especially with things like chronic fatigue, chronic pain, go back to all the inflammatory autoimmune cond.

I'm not saying everything is caused, but you know, there's a much higher proportion of women suffering with physical and hormonal health conditions when you're neurodivergent.

Because if you think about just constantly being repressed and pushing down and not being able to be who you are, and you know, it's so great to hear that you have always lent into those naps, you know, those knowing that you need them.

But a lot of women have not maybe had that self awareness or of that self understanding or maybe I've had like belief systems or conditionings from family members going, that's lazy.

Lazy people nap during the day.

You know, come on, keep going, keep pushing.

And so if you've had that, that, that sort of like dialogue in your head to push through and not nap, then yes, it's going to be, there's going to be something going on physically for you.

And that is what we see.

It's this permission slip for, for women to kind of just go, okay, so I can breathe.

It's okay to say no to that arrangement.

It's okay to maybe offer another alternative than sitting in a noisy, smelly restaurant.

It's okay for me to ask to work from home for a couple of days a week.

And that is what women have never had before.

They've never had them.

What is it about the, the being a bit older and you know, hitting perimenopause, menopause, what's the l. The hormone.

Link for me has been sort of like the foundation of my work.

And she was pretty much the only expert who was making that connection between neurodivergence, ADHD and hormones and the fluctuating hormones, especially around perimenopause.

What we know and what we're learning so much more, thank goodness, over the past few years, is that, you know, cyclically we have fluctuations.

So we.

But they're more extreme for neurodivergent women, which is why much higher percentage struggle with PMDD and postnatal depression.

We still don't understand.

There's still not enough research as to why these fluctuations are more Extreme.

But then if we are working in a, and I don't want to call it a deficit, but a dopamine dysregulation already and the estrogen is, you know, is sort of like the feedback to the dopamine and the serotonin.

We're working on women who are experiencing fluctuating mood, energy, motivation, connection, all of those things, and not understanding why they can't trust themselves.

So then we've got that cyclically that comes from puberty.

And most neurodivergent women will have had an understanding of how maybe their hormones have affected them throughout their life.

Perimenopause kicks in, traits come sooner, traits come harder than neurotypical women.

So you could be already experiencing those perimenopausal symptoms from your late 30s, 38, 39, very slowly to a point where you keep gaslighting yourself and thinking, no, there's no way in perimenopause, I'm too young, I'm too young.

And then they sort of just ramp up and ramp up and most of the time we push through, push through until we can't push through anymore.

And that's when you see most women in their mid-40s uncovering this perimenopausal, ADHD, autistic kind of Pandora's box of all the things that they kind of have been experiencing.

But it's like a low level hum and this is just like full blown, kind of like orchestra that's just like hitting you from all, you know, all places.

And I thought I was in perimenopause a few years ago.

I know I started like probably 39, 40.

I feel horrendous now with my perimenopause and I was quite smug about my HRT and managing it and everything.

And now I've hit another roller coaster where my sleep is nowhere as good as it used to be.

Mood, I never know when my period's coming and it's really, really hard.

And so we have to understand that our hormones are those like scaffolding and the things that hold things together.

And then when we can't quite rely on the hormones being there, when we kind of think they're going to be there, or the, the holding us just, you know, just tight enough to kind of mask the ADHD when they're that not there and they're kind of all over the place, our ADHD just kind of comes out in full pelt and just like hits over the head here, there and everywhere.

Whether it's, you know, to do with Our, you know, our cognition, relationships, career, physical health, libido, like, it's all there.

It's amplified with neurodivergence.

So, yeah, it's.

It's one of the reasons why so many women in midlife kind of.

I kind of suspected there was something going on all my life, but, my God, perimenopause is, like, ripped it all open for me.

Yeah.

And it really is like a roller coaster, isn't it?

It's like, oh, God, absolutely.

And it's weird.

And actually, it.

The knowledge is the power, isn't it?

Because you saying all that, I go, oh, yeah.

Like, last week, Susie and I went down to London.

We were.

We thought, very lovely.

We were up for an award for this podcast.

And I was saying to.

I don't feel like I've got any words in my head.

I don't feel like I can string a sentence together.

I don't feel like.

I feel incredibly boring and dull.

I don't feel like I've gotten.

She's like, it's not that what's coming across, but, my God, I had to work hard, but, yeah, I had to work so much harder.

And I think once you understand that.

And the last few years, since I was about 38, I've.

I've had to have like a couple of Sundays a month where I just sleep for about 15 hours a day.

And it's.

It's mad.

I literally just can't stay awake.

But I went up the loft actually earlier to get something, and I found my school report from.

Well, it says year two.

That would be middle school, so that would probably be year 6, 7.

And I read through it.

Oh, my God.

Esther is a bit of a dreamer, but when she concentrates, she can do some good work.

And then another one, she's.

She's really clever, but she just doesn't retain anything for exams.

I was like, oh, my God.

You know, it's just.

It's all there.

And that kind of.

That kind of.

If you'd have known at the time.

But we didn't have that knowledge in the 80s, which is why, as I say, the work you do is so fascinating and so important, so that it does reduce.

That shame, increases that knowledge.

I. I've.

I read Dr. Gabor Mate's book a few years ago, and obviously he talks about trauma being one of the triggers for adhd.

What are your thoughts on that?

Interestingly, I put a post up today, literally.

Oh, okay.

So I listen, he's done very good work in lots of different areas.

For mental health.

However, I categorically do not align with his beliefs or theories that ADHD is caused by, by trauma.

What I and you'll see in, in the post that I put up was it's ADHD and trauma are interlinked.

They because for women especially, but boys and men as well.

If you've not had an understanding of who you are and no one's articulated it to you and you've not had validation and you've not been able to understand what drives you, how your brain works, how your nervous system works, then you're going to be operating as a D, like in a different like alternate universe and not even you're sort of showing up as one version, but the world's meeting was another version.

And, and of course it's going to be trauma.

And then we understand with girls and women especially, you know, many ADHD girls find themselves in vulnerable situations.

There has been times where they've been people pleasing or trying to fit in and maybe making impulsive decisions or making decisions that have just been because they wanted people to like them.

We know that sexual trauma as well is, is higher in neurodivergent girls.

Addiction, disordered eating, ocd, depression, you know, it.

We, there's no way trauma can be not in the mix here.

So a huge part of my work is educating awareness, trying to help people understand because we don't want that 56 year old version of who all we were.

We want to see these girls going oh, okay, I understand myself even today, this morning.

I've got an 11 year old daughter and she never ever does this.

She woke me up in the middle of the night last night.

It was like one in the morning and she's, she's also diagnosed I can't sleep.

And she, I could see her getting all panicked and all worked up and I got her back to bed and told her it doesn't matter, not to worry about sleep and it's all fine and we'll wake up when we wake up.

And I didn't wake her up until about 8:39 o'.

Clock.

Took her into school late and I said to her sweetheart, you do know maybe why you struggled last night to fall asleep?

And she said well my legs were hurting and she played a lot sport, she didn't have any downtime, downtime Yesterday she had a few play dates and she went to something else and I said remember what you did yesterday?

There was no decompression time and normally she has time to chill and do nothing and yesterday was just One of those days where she went from one thing to another thing to another and then went to bed.

And I said, now you understand with ADHD we need a lot of downtime.

We need decompression time.

She played a lot of sport.

I said, did you put your magnesium spray in your legs?

Which is like a little ritual and just helps her calm down.

She goes, no, I forgot.

I said little things like that.

And you're able to understand how much your nervous system just needed.

And maybe you went to bed and you were a bit more heightened than usual, and that's probably why maybe you woke up in the middle of the night and it's all fine.

And then tonight we're going to go to bed early, both you and I, because now I'm tired and.

And we're going to go to bed early and have a good night's sleep tonight.

And that difference between not understanding and thinking there's something wrong and she was spiraling and not being able to reflect back and see how her day then led onto her night.

And we see this with burnout in women that when they're able to understand it, they're able to look back over the past three months that contributed to their burnout.

And then we go, right, okay, well, how do we prevent this from happening?

How can we start putting in more buffers, more boundaries, more time for decompression, more time for nature, movement, breath, anything like that.

But when you don't have.

Have it, then of course you're just going to be in this kind of consistent spiral and then questioning why you can't cope with life.

Yeah, yeah.

Would be able to have coped with her day.

Yeah.

Could have, you know, would have been able to bounce from one thing to another to another and then just collapse into bed and fall asleep.

She's just not one of those girls.

No.

And I think knowing that takes the pressure off, because I know in my own life, I've thought, oh, come on, why can't you?

Why can't you?

And then I just.

I'm flawed and I suddenly, I've had these days when I've gone to my husband.

I. I can't.

I can't think how to type, and I can't.

Don't show me a screen.

And I've literally had to just go and light in darkness and not move because my body, it's like a foot's gone on the accelerator and I can't get it off and I'm stuck and I just can't.

I can't get it off.

And I think understanding how your system works is so key.

And, and I think we're so bombarded with.

You must get so many hours sleep, you must do this that then that can eat.

I can't sleep well.

I can't sleep with them.

That's going to knock up.

Doesn't matter.

You holding her and going, doesn't matter.

It's so important.

Like, that's fine.

We'll catch up tomorrow.

We don't have to.

To do it in this way.

How key do you think?

Well, this is probably a two part question because we've had Hannah Miller on this podcast a couple of times and I actually went to school with Hannah and I found she.

So she does, for people who haven't heard the episode, she does something called the Clifton strength test.

And you find out what your strengths are, your natural strengths, and then the things that you're not so strong at.

And it was, I think about that every day because it was so illuminating to me.

And the bottom, my bottom two with discipline and consistency.

And she said, to be honest, you f highly with adhd.

But it's made me reframe how I live my life and it's really helped how I structure my days, how I structure my work, what I say yes and no to.

How important do you think it is to know what your boundaries are and set these practices, but also to have a purpose and create your world in a way that fits you?

Yeah, listen, so much of it does come from a place of privilege.

You know, a lot of women I speak to want to set these boundaries and want to have buffers and want to have time and to breathe and all of that and it's just not possible.

Yeah.

However, I never believe, I believe that everything is.

We can shift and evolve even in tiny, small ways.

And so even if you think there's absolutely no movement, there is always movement.

And even if it's a five minutes here or an hour there, it is all accumulative.

And we have to make our lives sustainable because many of us with ADHD have a big purpose or want to live with purpose and want to live a fulfilling life and want to live like life is, is, is colorful and full of creativity and joy and connection, but that's also quite exhausting as well.

And I think what you, you know, said about Miranda Hart and how obviously how she talks, you know, she looks like a big ball of amazing energy and what she.

And she obviously gives a huge amount but then has to retreat.

And so we see that a Lot we see, and even me, I show up and I'll do this podcast and I'll do another podcast, but then I will be good for nothing.

My husband, poor, poor guy, comes home from work and he'll want to talk to me and I won't have a huge amount in the tank.

Tank.

I really have to reserve that, and I probably reserve it for my kids.

I have to find ways to recharge my battery, and that is often going for a walk quietly on my own in nature with my dog, or having a bath or just having time just to breathe, a car journey or something like that.

Because when you want to give a lot and you really are very passionate about things that you do, you can't do that all the time.

Like, so there has to be boundaries and certain.

You have to be really strict with those boundaries.

And in my book, I've got a chat all about burnout.

And so much of it is about being on prevention, is being in prevention mode and understanding what the triggers are, what, what lights you up, what you know, what expands you, but also what kind of depletes you.

And the people, the situations where you've been, people pleasing and saying yes and what's what.

What are the reasons for that, you know, what validation, external validation are you looking for and what are you able to let go of now?

And coming back to the menopausal thing, in a way, it's.

It is great that we are going through this.

Even though it's painful and awful with the sleep and the sweating and the mood swings and all of that, it's stripping away all this kind of like, good girl stuff, this identity that we've been told that we've got to show up, up and constantly be performing for other people.

And I just don't have the energy anymore.

I don't have the energy.

And so I really have to just pick and choose and be like, no, that person that I used to make an effort for can't be bothered with.

If I'm going to socialize, I'm going to socialize and just see those friends that really, really like me.

I don't have the energy to make conversation with other people.

So I'm being a lot more refined with my work, in my work and being more kind of like really picking and choosing what is worthwhile for my business, worthwhile for me, and trying to be as present as possible for the people that I really.

That really do matter for to me now.

And sadly, things do fall by the wayside a little bit.

We can't do and be everything to all people and all things anymore.

And it takes women.

Some women aren't ready to hear that.

Some women are like, no, no, no.

This is my identity.

I do things, I help people, I show up, I'm there.

I'm the person that organizes.

I'm the person that gets everybody together.

And they're the people that are also going to bed with migraines and they're the people that are falling apart internally and can't talk about it.

And it, we have to make a choice.

You know, it can't be.

Maybe in our 20s, maybe in our 30s, we're able to do it.

But I don't think with perimenopause colliding with this understanding of our neurodivergence, we can show up as that person anymore.

There's something quite powerful about it, actually, isn't there?

Because I've, I, I was, I do lots of different things, but I was offered a job three times actually over the last couple of months and I just said no.

I know that's actually going to take too much from me.

And then last year I was running a weekly acting group, but I would, I.

The way it had been set up, I'd followed on from somebody else who'd run one.

And it was every Monday, even bank holidays, and I got to November and I was having December off.

And then as soon as I stopped, I was like, I'm absolutely exhausted.

I literally haven't had.

Because you're thinking about it every week.

I think I had two weeks holiday and someone covered, but you can't stop.

And as soon as I had Christmas, I was like, I can't do that anymore.

It takes too much from me.

And there's no space for this to grow or to work on other projects.

So I'm going to have to say no.

And I'm in the position that I can do that.

But, but years ago I would have taken a long time to make that decision, but now I understand myself a lot better, that there's nothing wrong with me.

I've got many gifts and I have limits.

And the.

My limits look different to other people's.

It was quite empowering to go, do you know what?

This doesn't fit for me.

And I'm going to have to say I love these people, but I'm going to have to say no to this.

So there's something quite.

I, I feel very emotional about the whole thing, that I probably am neurodiverse and a lot of people in my family have had diagnosis in the last few years, both sides of my family.

And so there's something quite emotional about it.

But there's also something sort of like, I feel like a bit of a chrysalis.

And my wings, my new wings are about to pop out and I'm going to be a complete badass.

You're a dresser, Come on.

I'm gonna be like Samantha Jones from Sex the City or Miriam Margulies.

I'm just gonna be, no, I'm not doing that.

But I'm gonna be kind.

But I'm also gonna be like, no, that doesn't fit.

And Also, I'm pushing 50.

We don't know how many years we have.

Let's just get on with this stuff.

So there is something quite stripping away those layers of, you know, people pleasing and being graciating and all those skills.

So there's something quite freeing about that, isn't that?

Yeah, very empowering.

Yeah.

No, our capacity and to know our bandwidth is very, very empowering because, like you say, you know, you can't be on the whole time and to know, you know, again, I think, you know, with ADHD especially, we like to have autonomy, we like to have freedom, flexibility, and then to be contained in, say, the acting class.

And your brain, you're going to want to deliver.

So every Monday night you want to do, you know, make sure that it's the best it can be.

A bit of perfectionism going on there.

So your brain's always going to be on.

Your nervous system is going to know every Monday night.

I can't, you know, I've got to be there.

So it is.

It's this combination and some, you know, even just removing that one thing, your nervous system will just be like, oh, okay, so I can breathe now.

Yeah.

But that version of you, maybe, you know, a decade ago or five years ago or something, would have been like, oh, I'm not going to let everybody down.

It's going to be, yes, I'm going to ruin everyone's lives.

It's going to be the worst thing that I've ever done.

And we create this kind of, like, narrative that it.

We're just going to be the most awful person in the world.

And I'm sure people may have been a bit disappointed, but I don't think you probably would have ruined anyone's life.

And I'm sure they probably found someone else to fill in.

But we overthink.

We kind of, you know, put so much pressure on ourselves.

You know, I'm in a similar situation with Something at the moment with work and I've made the decision to let something go.

I think the version of me a few years ago would have been horrified.

I would have lost sleep over it.

And I made the decision and I'm sorry.

Still at peace with it.

And I'm just like, yeah, okay, bring it on.

That's just the way it is.

And it's what I, my, what my capacity, my bandwidth is right now.

Yeah.

And I'm fine with that.

Yes.

It's taken me a while to get to that point.

I mean, I laugh when I think sometimes that I actually moved cities to get out of doing the pta.

Am I even joking?

Genuinely?

I uploaded my entire family.

Oh my God.

It's like a PTA schools to.

To.

So I didn't have to be chair of the PCA anymore.

You went into witness protection.

Yeah.

And then I came back when it, when a good enough time had passed that I wasn't gonna be like, no way.

I mean, and we, we're joking, we're joking.

But it's.

But actually do.

There is a huge element of that in.

It was in my decision because I was like, I can't let them down by just saying I can't.

I don't want to do this anymore.

I will have to have a really good reason.

I could have to move my tire back.

Oh, I resonate with that one.

I totally get it.

Oh my goodness.

Yeah.

Too funny with.

With your coaching because you, because obviously you set the podcast up and so initially that was about your own curiosity and understanding.

And then you coach as well now, don't you?

So how did all that come about?

So I don't really do any coaching.

Want one that much anymore, A few clients, but not so much because again, bandwidth capacity.

So I was doing it.

I was training already to do.

To be a well being coach.

And then obviously all the ADHD stuffs and then there's.

It all kind of like evolved and then I was doing the podcast, created a community, wrote a book.

There was a lot.

Yeah, it's brilliant.

Typical ADHD style.

There was a of lot.

And the book came out last July, which I was so glad to write and so proud to write, but it's probably taken me nearly a year to get over the promotion of it, the writing of it, the handing it in.

Yay.

There it is.

Fantastic.

Everybody should buy it.

Because it was a year writing.

Then we went into editing and then within about five months of editing we went straight into promo.

And when you're publishing with a Publisher.

The publisher puts lots of pressure on you to, you know, pre sales and all of that.

And I was just on.

I couldn't, I couldn't have a moment off.

I couldn't have a moment off the podcast off Instagram because it all fed into one.

It was just like, it was this sort of knock on effect.

And it's only now, you know, a year later that I'm like, oh, I think I've just been sort of like burning out slowly.

And so, you know, hence the decision I was just talking about.

I am really reflecting on my, you know, burnout, boundaries, capacity, all of that, my bandwidth right now and making decisions about how I want to show up while also protecting myself.

And so for me, having these kind of conversations, like, great, okay, I can get out to new audience.

I'm helping more people, educating, directing people back to things that I'm already doing, like the podcast, my books already written, but trying not to put too much more on my plate right now because.

Yeah, because I don't think I've got that in me anymore.

And that's okay because I've been really, really busy over the past six years building something.

And you know, you're allowed to have a breather, you're allowed to sort of press pause on things.

And I think that's important, especially when it's your health that's involved.

And sometimes it is that question of why, what, why do I want to do this?

I had to make decision not to do something this week and it's.

And what I tend to do is I'll, I'll go, oh, well, I should do it.

I should do it.

I'll say yes.

Good, yeah.

And then the next day I go, oh, crap.

I don't, I don't want to do it and I can't really.

And it's going to put loads of pressure on me and my family and.

And now I have to say no.

So I go from having an opportunity just to not, you know, not get into complicated situation.

I nearly always say yes and then have to disappoint, which is hugely annoying.

And I hope one day I will get to the point where I don't say yes in the first place because, you know, and I had sort of, I said, why do I want to do that?

Why exactly?

Is it something that for me or is it for somebody else?

Maybe it's dopamine as well.

It's the hit of.

Because I know when I did that thing with Hannah, one of my top traits was, well, it was empathy, positivity ideas, like, overwhelmed with idea.

I want.

I have an idea.

I have 50,000 ideas a day, and I want to execute all of them.

And then I have to go, I can't.

And sometimes when an offer comes in, it's that, oh, yeah.

And then the next day you go, oh, actually, I can't do that.

Do you experience that, Kate?

Oh, God, all the time.

Oh, my goodness me.

My projects file in ChatGPT, never ending.

And I'm like, oh, my God, I have ideas all the time.

But now my ideas are.

And this is how I preface it with chat.

I go, please make sure that you understand that I am exhausted, burnt out, and I really don't want to have to do anymore, show up anymore, but I really want to help, you know, still build awareness.

And that's the preface.

But what do you think about this idea?

And, and so, yeah, you can't stop the ideas from flowing.

And I think it's good to be able to channel them somewhere, whether it's a notebook or Google Docs, whether it's AI, getting it out, letting it flow, letting it have its moment.

You know, create and imagine and be imaginative.

I love all of that.

And have it somewhere because we will at one point feel ready for whatever that idea is.

But you're right, it's.

It's knowing.

It's like, oh, there's a little dopamine, you know, thing, you know, whether it's.

I'm just gonna Google this thing, I'm gonna look at that, I'm gonna have a little, you know, brainstorm.

But knowing what, what season you're in as well is so important.

And, you know, for me, I'm thinking, right, summer's coming up, kids going to be breaking up.

My daughter's doing her A levels.

Stuff's going on throughout the summer.

I'm going to give myself, I'm going to pull back a little bit and so use that time as to like, harvest these ideas and really think about how I want to show up come September and October.

October.

So it's allowing yourself, not like repressing, not pushing them down.

Let yourself have a bit of fun, but without the pressure to then have to do it, like, you know, actually execute them.

And sometimes we do want to execute them, but sometimes we just like to have the idea and allow that little dopamine kind of like, you know, buzz to happen, and then we settle down again.

How.

How would, how would you explain to somebody to how they know which season they're in if they don't know how they can recognize that within themselves.

And tricks.

Would you give somebody with ADHD in.

General or just with the season?

Well, the seasons, I think.

Okay.

So again, I think you can look at it from a hormonal perspective.

So I definitely see myself.

It's.

Whether you want to call it this autumn season, I don't know.

But I'm definitely not feeling as bright and sprightly as I normally do.

But I have moments.

I have moments where I'm like, oh, you know, let's lean into that.

See where you are again.

You know, you might be, you know, in a burnout cycle, you might have just been coming out of one.

You might be recovering, you might be sort of really just trying to, I guess, try not to let one happen.

Where your energy is, where your excitement is, where your sleep's at, where your moods are, where your obligations are, you know, people, family members, what's going on?

Are you caring for an older parent?

Have you got kids with needs that need, you know, who need you?

Is it the time, you know, if you've got parents needing you, kids, financial stuff going on, maybe stuff going on with a partner, is it a time to launch a whole new business and.

And do something that's really going to be taxing on your.

Your brain and your nervous system?

Or maybe stuff has happened and you're kind of in this like, like spring season, you might have got, whether it's divorce or maybe you have finished one job, you've gone through, you know, some time off and, you know, whatever that might be, and you might be re.

Energized, ready to start something new.

So it's just being able to have that time just to like, check in.

And again, I say, you know, whether you want to do it on voice notes, journaling, just allow yourself a bit of space to reflect and verbally process.

I think that a lot of us are very good verbal processes.

And sometimes it's all going on in our heads and it's all so much.

And then when we speak it, it's like, oh, actually, I don't really want to do that thing, or I'm feeling really like this, and I don't know why.

And then the shoulds come out and all of that.

So it's just, I would say giving ourselves space before we do anything extreme.

Giving our space to process, to reflect, to get curious, whether that's with a therapist, a friend, however you want to do it.

Because we do uncover things about ourselves that we didn't know were there.

And when we hear the words should should be doing this or need to be doing that or I ought to be doing this.

We know there's something going on there.

And so that's just an indicator in itself.

Yeah.

What does.

What would you say ADHD burnout looks out?

Looks like for somebody that might not recognize it within themselves?

It's quite subtle, actually, I think.

Yeah, you can have that sort of big crescendo of like, just complete paralysis and collapsing physical and mental, where you're sort of in this sort of disassociative state.

I know it can be very extreme for some people, but for many of us, it's just this pushing, pushing, pushing.

Then you get the flu or you get tonsillitis, or you get a migraine, or you just not sleeping well.

It's just like.

Like I said, it's like this low hum until it just builds up a little bit more momentum and you're more snappy with people.

You don't want to see certain friends that maybe you would have liked to.

You feel like you've lost a bit of joy or creativity, or you don't even know what you like anymore.

What.

What.

What fills you up.

You said you just go.

I don't even know.

You don't even have the words.

So it doesn't have to be this big melodramatic situation.

It can just be like you have nothing left to give.

You just feel like you're pouring from an empty cup.

And that's kind of what it feels like for me.

I've never really had, like, a big, dramatic burnout, but I can just feel it building, building, building.

And whether it's needing just to go and have a day on your own, a week on your own, like you say, go to sleep.

But it's also about stripping things back and finding.

Finding yourself again, I think, is probably, you know what I would try and suggest just finding the opportunity, finding those moments where you can discover who you are and what lights you up and what feeds you.

And many of us, especially midlife women, have just been doing so much for so many other people that we don't even know anymore.

We're just on this autopilot.

Yeah, that's brilliant.

I think that it's just been brilliant to take.

Would take this time to actually talk about things that I suppose some people haven't yet got to thinking about.

And maybe this conversation has sparked a little bit of curiosity in somebody listening or given somebody permission to.

To give themselves a little bit of space.

I've certainly found it absolutely fascinating, and I could Literally talk to you all day.

I'll have to go and listen to five hours worth of podcasts now.

I would advise that you probably.

Can we just finish with a few tips that you would give people with adhd.

See that, that I struggle with because I'm just like, oh, there's so many.

But I mean, id, I'm not.

This is not a plug.

But I would say, like my book.

That's what I wrote my book about, you know, the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Toolkit, for that exact reason.

Because we focus on things like anxiety and the nervous system and burnout and hormones.

But.

But we also move to this more sort of spiritual lifestyle, well being place of like, understanding your purpose and your potential and creativity and leaning into joy and discovering who you are and your authenticity.

And so if you want the tip tips and the hacks, go to TikTok and find somebody that will do all these snazzy videos.

But for me, there's, there's nuance, there's, there's processing, there's conversation.

And that's why I wrote the book, because there were so many conversations that I'd had on the podcast that I was like, right, how do I get this to women where they can put this into practical, you know, different things?

Whether it is, I mean, for me, the biggest thing that I lean on every single day without fail, is movement.

Going outside, outdoor movement, walk my dog.

I have to have a walk every single day.

And I lean into my breath.

I have to, because I'm one of those people that will do a million things all in one go.

And before 11 o', clock, I've emailed, done socials, check podcast X, Y and Z, not breathed, had a couple of coffees and suddenly realized that I've got.

Like, tightness in my shoulders, my breath.

Is like, short, and I'm feeling really sort of activated.

And so what I do is I recognize this now and I like.

And I go into like, sort of like some breath work, you know, a couple of minutes every few hours to really try and settle my nervous system.

Because we don't want to get to the end of the day and then do that.

It's almost like, no, it's a little bit too late.

Yes, you know, do it.

But it's a couple of minutes every few hours just to calm and resettle will make a really big difference to the version of you later on in the day when you've got to deal with parent, you know, kids, family, partners, all of that.

So, yes, it is Always being aware of your nervous system health and that regulation and calming your, your, your nervous system, I would say.

So you feel more regulated and more settled and grounded because that version of you will, will, I guess, thank you for it at the end of the day.

Yeah, yeah.

And I think that's for everybody as well, isn't it?

Yes, especially and, and mothers and women.

And it's giving yourself, it's giving yourself permission and it's tiny little things, isn't it, that make a massive difference to how you move through, move through the day and how your body responds and is at the end of every day, brilliant.

Give yourself those buffers, like try not to book yourself in, you know, back to back to back, recognize, you know, plans in the evening.

What's that going to contribute?

What's that version of you the next day gonna, you know, need?

If you've had a crazy day, many of us do, you know, the next day, what can you do for yourself so you can recover from the day before?

So you're always.

And again, it is exhausting.

And that is that the tax of being neurodivergent that you are constantly trying to reconfigure and recalibrate and then some people can just keep going and then they, and they're still fine.

Many of us can't with our sensitive nervous systems.

And so we have to find ways to claim back, you know, our energy or battery or emotions, whatever that might be.

And that's just the price we have to pay to operate in this world at the moment when it's just so fast paced and doing is celebrated.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, definitely.

Thank you so much.

Like sue said, this isn't just for people with neurodiversity, not just for women.

I know my husband will be able to use a lot of what's been said in this conversation as well.

Yeah.

And we'll put, we'll put links to your podcast, the ADHD Women's Wellbeing podcast and your brilliant book, the ADHD Women's well being Toolkit on the show notes as well.

And thank you so much, Kate.

It's been brilliant to meet you.

Yeah.

I really enjoyed the conversation.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for listening to this More Yourself episode.

And this is more my chance to bring you additional wisdom to help you step into more authenticity.

Authenticity with this new understanding and awareness through a more neurodivergent lens.

So I really hope that you found today's episode helpful and you can always find more resources on my website.

Which is ADHD womenswellbeing.co.uk you'll find free resources, workshops, different things that to help you along your ADHD journey, whether it's nervous system regulation, whether it's help grounding or or understanding your potential.

I've tried to include all the different areas of ADHD within this ecosystem of how it manifests in everyday life.

And you can also find more content on my socials as well.

So always go onto Instagram, which is ADHD Women's well being pod.

You can find me on TikTok and you can find me on substack and LinkedIn.

I will see you on another Thursday.

Episode where we always have a fantastic and inspirational guest expert helping us and guiding us and supporting us on this late diagnosed ADHD journey.

Take care and I'll see you all very soon.