Jerrica Long helps frustrated mid-career creative professionals escape the confines of the Hollywood system. But it took me a while to get to that!

She has a newsletter called ‘Greenlight Yourself’, some viral content and is building a following.

In this conversation, I share ways our mutual connection, Josh Spector, has helped me, and we game-plan Jerrica’s next steps.

Game Plan Talking Points:

• Defining Ideal Client Personas

• Navigating Day Job vs. Side Hustle

• Business Model and Future Planning

• Structuring and Delivering Client Offers

• Identifying and Attracting the Right Clients

• Positioning Jerrica to Greenlight Herself!

• Refining Messaging and Online Presence

Time-stamps:

00:00 How Josh Spector helped me reposition my course

03:36 The viral post to Hollywood

08:57 Finding the offer

11:32 Coaching Program and Membership Plans

12:34 Overcoming Hollywood Gatekeepers

19:02 Audience Growth Strategy Package

21:02 Community-Supported Client Growth

25:53 Spotting Credibility in Creative Fields

27:57 Targeting Established Creatives Newsletter

32:34 The value of the work.

34:05 Guiding clients to success

38:10 When only death forces a decsision

40:26 Crafting a ‘that’s me’ LinkedIn headline

Guest Deets:

Find Jerrica at Greenlight Yourself 

Jerrica Long on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jerricalong/

Also check out: Josh Spector HERE

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🚀 Connect with me on LinkedIn

When your post go viral, what do you do next? How do you broach your side hustle with your employer? And how do you get paid before you create any more content? These are questions I attempt to answer for my guest, Jerrika Long, who helps professional creatives in Hollywood find their audience and get paid outside the traditional system. Welcome to Not Another Business Podcast with me, Toby Goodman. I loved Jerrika's episode on Josh Spector's clients from content podcast and having connected with her on LinkedIn. She messaged me about how I was getting on with some recommendations Josh had shared. Jerica had questions also about my book, course, and overall consulting offers, so I invited her on this podcast. We discussed the challenges of juggling her side hustle with her day job. I shared what had worked for me, reviewed her overall messaging on LinkedIn and website, and made some recommendations to help elicit a that's me response from her prospective followers and subscribers. If you're in business and identify as Podcurious or your podcast isn't working out the way you'd hoped, I've got more for you including episodes, my best selling book, Narrow Podcasting, and Profitable Pod Method skill sessions.

For all that and more about how I can support your business, head over to narrowpodcasting.com. You said, I really like the tactic to reach out to people that comment and offer to send them to one of your skill sessions depending on where they're at in their process. How does this work for you? It's working quite well. Did you learn this in Josh Spector's skill sessions? Yes. Yeah. I learned that specific tactic. So what Josh helped me with I wrote a book called Narrow Podcasting, which came out in 2022, best selling book about how to use podcasting to grow your business, not to get famous. Not even necessarily to get clients, although it does that, but it also helps businesses continue to communicate as they grow without losing culture.

So loads of stuff going on

there. Wow.

When that book came out, it was just at the end of COVID. Mhmm. I created a course that went alongside that called the Profitable Pod Method. And it's about four hours of material over 32, I think, modules, lessons, and that was selling for $2 US. It did pretty well. Sold quite a lot. And then at some point, when people realized they could leave their homes again, people stopped buying online courses and started Mhmm. More events and all of that stuff, which is great because I was one of those people.

So Kidding. I was happy to leave this room, and I just left it there. I didn't do anything with it. And Josh said, it's not doing anything. Why don't you just upload the entire thing to YouTube?

Mhmm.

See, I did get a couple of clients from that because the traffic I just put all of those videos into one overwhelming thing. Wow. I did get a couple of clients from that, which is interesting. But then it seemed like the algorithm stopped favoring me. Right? Because I don't really have a big YouTube following. That was not good. And then he said he was going to people who were commenting on his posts on LinkedIn who he didn't know and saying, hey. Thanks for your interest.

You're obviously interested in what I do. I'd be happy to share with you one of my skill sessions. If if you'd like to help, just pick one from a menu. I was like, I'm gonna try that too if that's alright. And he was like, yeah. You go ahead. Like, super lovely guy. Because I've got these 32 plus other ask how to do this, what to do when that happens all around growing business with podcasting, and about how to position it or what I should say to my guests once the podcast has been released.

Whatever it might be, I've got so many little nuggets on those things. And then the next move is to say, oh, would you like all of the videos? I Uh-huh. Join the course for this much, which is $1,500. If you want all of those, I'll give you an hour of my time as well. That's normally $1,500. So that's Yeah. Yeah. I bomb.

So it cost me an hour of my time. It revitalizes an asset that I built a couple of years ago. And at worst, it earns me $1,500. And at best, it's the beginning of a commitment that maybe I get a longer term client.

Mhmm. That's really cool.

The other question you asked is, how did you figure out or formulate your methodology? So what are you trying to figure out right now?

Great question. I recently had a couple posts do really well and brought in over a thousand sub followers on LinkedIn in literally seventy two hours, which is super exciting. And the post that got them really interested was me talking about being optional to Hollywood. And then the other post that really did well was just talking about how Hollywood is really exclusionary and doesn't really include a lot of people who are other. So both of those posted really well. But I read the comments, it's a lot about audience building. It's a lot about people not wanting to be on camera or people know who they are, but they want people to see, like, their work, their web series, or their TV show, or whatever the case may be. There's some type of piece of content that they really want to be known for, but they don't wanna be an influencer.

And I'm trying to figure out, like, what is my is it like a green light framework? Is it like a Hollywood optional method? What is the words that I can really own so that when people work with me, I can talk about my method on social media, and they can dive deeper with me one on one as, like, a coaching client or a part of my boot camp or something that I'm trying to I know it's gonna be consulting and coaching. So I'm figuring out, like, those two different

Yeah. So you're selling consulting, coaching, hybrid, whatever. Your LinkedIn bio says direct to client solutions are influential. Empowering creatives to bet on themselves.

Yes.

So what does that mean?

Like, founder of Greenlight Yourself. So, right, like, I'm trying to help empower creatives. Like, my core, I guess, ICP or my ideal client persona is somebody who is a mid tier creative who is in Hollywood. Right? They've got the agent. They've got the manager. They built their portfolio of work. What I wanna help them do is grow audience around my work outside of the Hollywood traditional system and monetize that.

Okay. Great. So we are talking because creatives is quite a broad thing.

Yes.

Hollywood obviously is more defined, and I get you can be a creative like the camera operator, for example. So you're also talking about, say, script writers as well as actors and what have you?

Yes. Comedians, script writers, actors, people who are producers, a lot of people who are multi hyphenates. Right? Like, they write and also create their content.

So their problem is they don't feel like they're being seen Yes. Or heard, and they think they're being passed over because of the Hollywood elite vibes.

Yes. I the vibes for me. No. I don't focus on, like, race, gender. It just matters like, I just wanna help you feel seen and heard and create audience outside of Hollywood traditional system. Like, that's matters to me.

Love that. And that's also really helpful because that changes your messaging as well. Building green lighting yourself. Green lighting yourself is lovely, by the way. I think it's really cool. I'm really

Thank you.

That as a headline. I'm bringing over a decade of experience in audience building, platform development and career growth for top creators, storytellers and executives. Now I'm channeling that expertise and my network into my newsletter. Join me. Together, we'll cultivate community, create and share work, build wealth, careers, and side hustles on our own terms, chase our dreams, not in someone else's timeline.

Here's the issue. I have a day job. Right? I'm just, like you said, director of client solutions at a different company. I'm obviously not happy in my day job. Right? And I'm also trying to build green light yourself. So I wanna tow the line of having that day job, but also trying to build my own thing. And I focus it more so on a newsletter and less around, like, coaching and consulting.

Do the people where you work care about Greenlight?

The head of HR literally requested me three days ago, which I had no idea they even knew who I was on LinkedIn. I haven't accepted her yet, but she's still there. Because I'm just like, why are you here? How did you find me? I don't know if they do. And I honestly don't care if they do or if they don't, but I have to care because, financially, I need to make sure I I care enough to keep my job.

Yeah. So I might just have a conversation with them and just say, I'm building a side hustle. Yeah. Is what are your red lines? Because I don't wanna in The UK, we say take the piss. I don't wanna take advantage. I wouldn't you think I'm not taking my job seriously. Thanks for my job. Love it, etcetera, etcetera.

What are the red lines? What are you guys comfortable with? This is my side hustle. This is my goal. As far as I understand, it doesn't conflict with the work we're doing and what you hire me to do. Cool. We good? Just have the chat. It's if they say they'll say who knows what they'll say? They might say, oh, yeah. Go for your life. That's cool.

As long as you're not doing it on our time. Yeah. Get it. Clearly, I'm not looking for other work. Really happy here. All they'll say, this is absolutely against everything you have assigned, and you'll have some decisions to make. If they're cool with it and you can have a conversation whereby they are basically say, yeah. Of course.

You carry on. Then you get to say, you can hire me for coaching consulting and whatever. Because because otherwise, it's like, what Yeah. Can I buy from you? If I know that I could actually have your time for a couple of hours and you could help me understand the dynamics of whatever the situation is because you're experienced, then I'd love to do that. But if I just have to wait for your email to arrive in my inbox every Tuesday, I'm gonna have to find someone else. Yeah. That's that's the risk in a strange way. That's you stopping you from green lighting yourself.

I see what you did there.

Because you're worried. Like, I understand why you're worried because I had a conversation today with somebody else. Like, this is about slowly turning a new tap on, not about turning everything else off around you because that's irresponsible when you've got bills, and that's just nuts. There are people and there are stories, like, the sexiest stories are like, and then I just quit everything, and I ran away, and I blah blah blah. But, like, in my world, and I think a lot of the people I know as well, just sorry, Val. I've got bills to pay. Like, I'm never gonna just run off into the sunset because Yes. I don't wanna be known as someone who did their best.

And if it didn't work out, I started this thing slowly and I grew it. And that gave me possibly at some point in time an option to grow it or to leave it there. So you've got expertise. You've got a solid target market. You understand the environment. You understand the challenges. You're building a following. Like, you've got a really nicely growing following on LinkedIn.

Like, all of those things, it's like check. What's the dream scenario in three to six months as a result of you having built that following for you?

I would love to leave my job altogether and just have two years to focus in on, dream about yourself, and really building that as opposed to having a day job, if that makes sense.

Yeah. It does. And so what needs to be true for you to be able to walk away? Like, there's a certain amount of money that needs to be coming in. The question is that's obvious. Right? The question is that made up of, do you want a million clients paying you $1 each? Oh god. Or do you nightmares. Yeah. What? Two clients paying you half a million each.

Yeah. And they're inside kind of exaggerated numbers. But have you thought about that? I'll deliver that and then

Yes. So I've been putting that together, like, my eventual exit plan, like, what I could look like. And for me, it's about in my coaching program. I'm having a coaching program with six clients. I wanna do two cohorts of six clients, charging them 2 k each as my number one goal, and then I want to also have some type of membership. And it's funny that, like, I love how skill sessions works. For Josh, I think it's so smart how he's built his membership and how even as the pricing model is just so smart to me, and I think that's something similar. I kinda wanna figure out what that would look like for me, but I wanna have some sort of membership that's consistent income, things that I can count on.

So the other thing that I love about what he does is he creates as he goes. Yeah. The classic version is I'm just writing my book. And when my book's done or when my course is made, everything will be great. You'll just have a product, and then you'll have to start telling people about it. Whereas you're doing monthly green light sessions

Mhmm.

And you're committing to delivering a twenty minute thing about getting past gatekeepers in Hollywood. Like, whatever the things are that you know about that are top of mind for these people, just go cool. I'm gonna give you twenty minutes on that, and then we're gonna hang out and you're gonna ask me questions about

it. Mhmm.

And you're recording it, and it's going into the archive. And then when people join, they've got access to the old stuff, which is still what happened. They're getting the new stuff. So the value of the asset, which is your business, goes up all the time, which is exactly what Josh is doing. He's building an asset as well as getting discovered all the time by new people and it doing it's super, it's a super smart, efficient way of working because he's not overwhelming himself and going, I need to take three months off and write a book. He's just delivering good training. And the other thing he's doing is, which I love is he has people vote on of these three. Yeah.

What would you like the most? Would you like something about public speaking, something about email management, or something about LinkedIn hacks? He's giving people power to vote on that. So if you've got a newsletter, you can basically do whatever it is. It can be free to start with just to get a sign of life. You could just poll them and say, if I was to do a workshop on a, b, or c, which would you choose? Hey. Let me know. That's a pretty strong LinkedIn post as well. Yeah. Yeah.

You can say I'm inviting you to that. People can show up. You can record it, so it's an asset. And then for the people that showed up, you can say, hey. If you'd like first access to all of these, then we're doing a call a month and it's this much. This is how much it costs. Would love to have you join me if you found that one valuable. And you'll get all of those plus a q and a.

So then they're paying, but you're doing the first one for nothing, which is like a real time version of what I just explained to you about what Josh is doing and what I'm doing with stuff I already built.

Yeah. I like he's, like, building the plane while he's on it, but not in a way that's more efficient and smart.

But it's only toxic and horrible if you're bullshitting people about what you've got and what you haven't got. It's stressful for you. Super stressful and, like, you're I tell you another frame because I never wanted to write a book. Mhmm. A best selling book. Right?

Wow.

Until I found out how powerful a book can be when you have one. When you've written a book, it's a thing you can hold Yeah. Step Cool. And it lands on their desk, and it's like you're an author, and no one can take it away from you. Whereas, everyone's got an online blah blah blah blah blah. Yeah. So I understood the value of having a book that was published, but I really didn't wanna write a book. Like, the actual thought of writing a book made me feel ill.

And the only thing that made me write the book was that I wanted to secure my what I felt was my IP. Look. Okay. You're saying all this shit, but here's a book that was published in 2022 that tells you all of this stuff. And when people are maybe considering hiring other people to help them. Yeah. Yeah. I wrote the book on that.

And sometimes that's been really useful many times. But it still doesn't get over the fact that I hated the solitary activity of and thought of writing a book. Like it wasn't growing my business while I was creating something. Yeah. The version that I did was I said to a community of people, I've created hundreds of episodes and 10 with tens of people who who have used their podcast to grow their business. I've written out I've created a load of stuff that teaches that that is my plan. Isn't it? The framework of how I've done this. I wanna teach it to you guys over three sessions for I think it was two hours two hours a session.

I'm gonna tell you everything I know for an hour. You're gonna ask me questions for an hour. Gonna do it for three days in a row. You're gonna pay me a one time fee, and then I'm gonna create a book and a course out of it, and I'll obviously give you a free copy of my book and access to the course. Wow. Then to I answered the questions, the bits that I missed, the questions that were coming up for them. And then I had that transcript, and I was able to pull from that to order it and write my book, which took ages because GPT wasn't a thing then and would be much quicker. But what it also did was it funded the cost of the editor of the book and the cover designer, people that do out as in and all that stuff.

Mhmm. But that paid for it. Those people paid. I was like, you're gonna drink from the fire hose. Yeah. I'll answer all your questions. I'll give you everything I've given people that have paid me a lot more than that. You're all gonna pay me this fixed fee.

And then when I've built the thing, I'll give you that as well. So that was how I did it three years ago.

That's a powerful writing a book is definitely on my list for all of the things that you mentioned, but the idea of sitting down and writing a book.

Fine. So how many subscribers have you got at the moment on your newsletter?

I have about, I wanna say, like, 1,500. It's all organic.

And people are opening it. You've got a call to action?

Yeah. My open rate is, like, 74%.

Amazing. So what's your call to action in the newsletter?

My call to action, I'm really pitching my coaching. Right now, I'm doing one to one coaching, and that's what I've been getting clients for.

And is that working?

I don't want a lot of clients, though, because I have a daytime draft, so I only could take on about two or three. And right now, I have about two.

Great. And they are paying for one times or package of

It's a package. So, basically, how it works is they've all signed on for three months. I help them build out a strategy, like a playbook, if you will, on how they grow audience, what that could look like, how are they showing up on each platform, what does that look like, how often it's really like a road map for them to use when it comes to building out their audience and growing in a way that feels sustainable to them, and everybody's goal is different. I have a ninety minute conversation with them where I ask them a bunch of questions to better hone in what I need to build out the strategy playbook. Then I build out the strategy playbook. I send them a Loom video walking them through the playbook, and then I offer them, like, do you wanna meet up or anything like that? And they both wanted to. And so we met up. I talked them through the playbook, answered their questions on how to use it.

And then after that, they have access to me via Slack for three months and me going back and forth. So that's a lot of voice notes back and forth on what's working, what's not working, how do they analyze their data, like, all of that stuff.

That's really valuable. Really cool. And then after three months, you're called, they're doing their thing, and you've delivered. It sounds like you're over delivering because you're giving them a playbook specifically for them and then coaching them through it asynchronous, which is super smart. Love that. Yeah. People like that who've been through the intensive with you to say, done your thing, but if you want a sense of accountability and also just what's coming up, participate in this cohort. Yeah.

Like, just like Josh does. Right? Two times a month. I'll present a new idea. You can QA, and then we'll do a mastermind where we chat, by the way, and where I might differ. Because you've got a more defined target market than Josh, which is you're all looking to move forward regardless of whether Hollywood's interested or not, and you've got a plan. I'm doing it. So that's super strong. There's a cohort of 10 of us, and I'm gonna hold space for you.

We're gonna go through what's coming up. Yeah. Share your challenges. I'll give you my best shot, but also you'll find community what's happening out there. People are in different parts of The US or different parts of the world, what they're seeing, and we'll do it together. And it only costs you a couple of hours a month, but increasing the lifetime value of that client Yeah. Insane. It's not big bucks, but it's a scalable thing.

And if someone drops off, you can fill their place, and you're running like a few cohorts, like you said at the beginning of the call. So Yeah. That's also the really interesting part for me is how do you transition I'm just thinking. Of my kids and babies? Like, they need to be taught how to feed themselves. Yeah. My eight and 11 year old, broadly speaking, most of the time, feed themselves. Oh, you know what's in that drawer, don't you? Go and get it. Yes.

So that one day, hopefully, in the fairly near future, I won't even have to ask them to set the table. That's my dream. There are those stages in that intense period where you're literally spooning food into their mouth. It's the same with what you're doing with the plan. It's here's your plan. Do this, do that next. If that happens, do this. If you drop your food, don't freak out.

I've got you. Yeah. When you're that small, but you freak it out and you can't get the that's where they are when they're new with you, but broad, they understand the ground rules, they understand your methods, and they understand your principles and why, but they still need leadership and guidance. Yes. Because you have so many more years than they do. It's worth them having you around.

Such a good point.

So I would look to the people who have already served Okay. Our clients and be like, look. This is what I've got. It's less intensive, but it keeps my head in the room. Because when you get a big meeting, you might wanna have five minutes with me. Because that happens all the time.

Yeah.

It's funny. I could my background's in music, and in music was people would get signed to big labels. You get massive advance. They get an album deal. You get released on a major. Now it's not like that. People are self releasing and backing themselves in interesting ways and finding different and building. But if they are getting signed to a major label, the major label expect them to already have x number of followers on socials.

They're not whereas back in the day, it was like, you're a raw talent. We're gonna develop you. We're gonna spend money, and then we're gonna release this thing to the world. You carry on singing and writing songs. Today, I don't care how good you are at singing and writing songs. If you don't come to me with a hundred thousand followers, it's not worth us taking a risk on you. Because media is and access to music is, I guess, in some ways, it's been democratized, but it's been devalued in the process. And muddied with people who are good at algorithms and can't actually sing or can't actually sing or can't Right.

Or whatever. So Yeah. Get the challenge in it. It's like a super noble one. So here's another thing that I like and that I'll ask you because I want this is something that will help you. Bearing in mind how much vanity and slightly strange ethics go along with showbiz. Yes. Who are you not for? Who do you not want to work with?

Yes.

The creator economy. What does that mean to you? Thought leader. It's like things that could mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. You're a creative, but you are not this kind of creative.

Yes. What

does that look like? What does that sound like?

Yeah. I think for me, it's like writer, performers, comedians, filmmakers, digital creators, people who are creating content that's scripted in some way. It's scripted content, and they're looking to build an audience from that. It's who I help. I don't help, like, musicians, people who wanna put on an album or they wanna be, like, the next Beyonce. That's not my client.

That's really cool. So this is for creatives who are in these industries. If you're a musician, I recommend you check out these people. Maybe it's quite a nice thing to do. Right? Or if you've got friends in music, which you probably have if you're in film, these are the guys that I would check out for those. But what you said was comedians, script writers, etcetera. Here's the next layer digging deeper into that is, if I say to you, I'm a script writer. Yeah.

Your immediate internal thing is, yeah, but are you a script writer? If you're terrible at what you do, I can't help you. And I don't wanna help you. I wanna be associated with you. So what are the signs of credibility? And it's the same with coaching, by the way. Yeah. Like, you've done this with I can see featured on Netflix and, like, you've got the signs of credibility in your hero banner in LinkedIn. You have got decade of experience in audience building, platform development, and career growth for top creators. Right? So Yeah.

The difference between a good storyteller and someone who's down the local bar saying, yeah, I wanna creative.

Yeah.

And how do we articulate the difference so that Yeah. People are showing up and you're not just going, yeah, I'm a content creator. Because my god, everyone's a content creator. Yes. Have anything to do with ninety nine point nine percent of any of them.

So okay. That's a great question. That's why and I think when we talked about my ideal client earlier, I definitely want people who are mid career. Right? Like, they have the agent. They have the manager, or they had the agent. They had the manager. They're probably past staff writer when it comes to the hierarchy in, like, a writer's room and stuff like that. They're probably, like, story editor or executive producer or things like that.

They also have a hunger to make content. Like, their TV like, I was writing on show. Like, I wrote on a show. Right? Like, I wrote episode of television. I also worked in TV writers rooms for Beep and Blackish and all these different places. I was a PA on Blackish, but on Beep, I was in the writer's room as a writer's assistant. No. Sorry.

Office PA. But I've been, like, a writer's assistant in all of these things on various shows. And what I can tell you are the people that say to themselves, okay. I have all these scripts. I literally have 40 scripts. All these script. And what I wanna do is I wanna figure out how to make these scripts come to life, and I wanna be able to monetize it. That's how I help people.

That's like, I am in some ways, I am my ideal client. Mhmm. So I'm able to assess through who I can help and who I can't help.

Okay. So you said something that doesn't appear on any of the copy I'm reading on LinkedIn. It'll really help you, I think. And maybe it does appear you said it twice now, and I almost forgot it the first time, so you have to excuse me. But I'm just clicking on your website as well to make sure. A weekly newsletter for self made creatives ready to stop waiting for a yes and start creating their own ideas. Build it at at at at at at. Right.

But what it doesn't say on there and what it doesn't say on your LinkedIn is already mid career, already working, already experienced creator. One of the things you said to me, which is a sign of credibility, like an undeniable sign of credibility, is they've got an agent or they've had an agent. If that is important as a metric to you, then that's quite exciting to me. Because I can say, if you've got an agent, but it's not working out the way you'd hoped, or if you've had an agent and they couldn't get you any work because they They didn't get you. I got you. Come and talk to me. Yeah. Boom creator on the Internet.

Shit. Who am I who am I what is this? Mhmm. Even if you sent out, like, a little email to your list saying, click if you've never had an agent, got an agent, had an agent, but not got one at the moment. Uh-huh. You'll find out then

which Yeah.

It's like, the ones that have never had an agent, some of them might be the next big thing. That's just one like, being on a network TV show or written for a network TV. It doesn't have to be an agent, but

Yeah.

You've been part of a thing. And also, you've seen inside the Yes. You you feel maybe you're not trying to get in. Maybe you're you feel trapped and you're trying to get out because it's not all it's cracked up to be. Yeah. So that's the conversation that they're having with their peers and their friends. Mhmm. The conversation that they're having with you when you meet them.

Yeah. Totally use that in your copy because then you're not just empowering creatives to bet on themselves. Yeah. You're doing something much more defined, which is you're empowering I don't know. Like, if it was comics, it'd be like road weary comics or people who are writers who are tired of air conditioned rooms and deadlines for people that don't respect them and don't understand the creative process or are not paying them enough or whatever. Like, properly, like, why were you so pissed off when you're doing that work and then Yeah. Joy? What what did you hope it would be? What did you think it would be? And that is that helpful?

Yes. You're right. I need to get clear on how I communicate who my ideal client is and where they're at in their career and how I help them.

Yeah. And ask them. Like, what's great about what you've done is you've got a significant it's not like a game changing one, but you've got a serious amount of followers. You've got, like, over five and a half thousand followers on LinkedIn, which is a good platform. Is that the platform you have the most followers on, or do you have other No.

10,500 on TikTok. Wow. I want to have six or 7,000 on threads.

Yeah. I'd be really interested to see if you could do a poll across all of those. See if it's the agent question or if it's a I've written for or been on a TV show or whatever it might be. Do the poll and see.

Yeah. See where we're at.

Okay. Do where we're at and say, You told me that you had an agent and it didn't work out. You told me you've got an agent and you're not seeing the results you wanted. Yeah. Here's what might be holding you back. Is it they don't understand your work? Is it they're not hustling hard enough? Or is it something else?

Yeah. You're just tired of it. Yeah.

It's not moving fast enough. Hollywood's living in LA is not cheap or

And the industry's unfortunately going through a lot in The US, Hollywood industry for sure. Right. Okay.

I had

a question for you earlier. I'm curious what parts did you think were, like, over delivering.

I was super surprised when you said I'm not against it, but I was super surprised and delighted that you would create a specific playbook for somebody to help them understand what the metrics meant to them. Yeah. Sit and coach and understand what they needed to do. Not only you spending your time when you're with them, time away from them, gluing it all together and giving them a plan. And I think that's so cool Yeah. Thing to give them.

It's just a lot.

Some people might just want what we're doing now, which is Yeah. That one was someone who is a little bit more experienced or has got a different set of experiences, history they're trying to get into.

I would like for my offer to be more like this, like, more conversation and figuring things out and things like that. Less opposed to building strategy playbooks that I will say, I've had a lot of agency work at ad agencies and marketing agencies where I did this for brands. I did this for celebrities, and they pay a thousand $30,000 for what I do

Right.

For individual creatives.

And what's the point? If I came to you and I was, I was with my agent, been on a few shows, not particularly happy Yeah. What are you charging me for that three months? What's your investment?

It's not high. So it's literally I think my charter right now is 2,500.

Wow. So you were doing less than 10 x what agencies were selling your work for?

Yeah. It's a lot more detailed than what I was doing in an agency for a brand. Right. The whole three months staying on and stuff like that is just I wrestled with that because I don't think one of the things I've noticed even when I was at an agency, people don't know how to bring to life what they see on paper. It's very confusing, especially using terminology and using frameworks that they may or may not understand. So I wanted to help guide them into what they're doing. But my most successful client, I've worked with him for two years, and his dreams happen. Like, when I met him, he wanted to have a TV show about his life.

Before he passed, he had two shows. One set up at Amazon with Kevin Hart producing and his production company, and then the other at Oprah's company, a reality show about his family's life, a special on Netflix. And he had a second one he was working on before he passed, but that happened because we built his audience. And I'm trying to figure out how I can recreate that for other people, but we worked together for a very long time to make that happen.

And he did his slice of the work as well.

Yes. He did.

There's another angle that I've just thought of, which is it's true to say that a bad agent will cost you time and money, and there are few great agents. Or you could represent yourself if you had a plan. And an agent will take let's be real about, like, numbers. Right? If you got a placement or a role or whatever it is you do on a run of the mill TV series, you would make at least this for one episode. Yeah. It would take this much off you. Do the numbers. What's the percent?

I wanna say it's 10%, and then your lawyer takes three to 4%.

Okay. So let's say a hundred grand. Yeah. You're gonna get a hundred grand for this episode. Your agent's gonna take 10. Your lawyer's gonna take you're actually by the end of it, you're 80. Oh, that's

not even taking out taxes yet.

So Yeah. If you knew these things, you could get that faster, which means you could either do it yourself or you Yeah. Agent who'll get you the same episode for $200. And then so also show the numbers because then if it's 2 and a half grand for you, that's an absolute mafia off. Work with me, and I will teach you the jargon. Yeah. Because here's a glossary of shit that people say that is basically exclusionary to people who aren't insiders, and they don't even know they're doing it. Here are all the words.

Okay. That useful?

Yes. Yes.

Like, as soon as you told me people were selling something wasn't as detailed that you created for 30 k, and you're creating something even better for two and a half. Yeah. That's so cool. Also unbelievable. Yeah. Maybe, okay, this thing's two and a half, but you know what? You can get access to the glossary. You can get access to all of these things that will help prepare you. It's $500, and it's yours to keep forever.

That's all the asset thing that's paying you $500, maybe once a month. Yeah. Once a month. Okay. As your list grows, get the inside scoop, get the glossary. If you want a one time call with me, it's the whatever. And you can change it as you grow. And as you're dealing with your main job and stuff, but you've got more component parts that you can move around depending on what you're trying to do.

I think that's what I'm trying to say to you. Yeah. Exciting because it meets people where they are. Yes. A broke script writer who hasn't worked for two years Mhmm. At ethical price point. But it also meets someone who's working regularly and making pretty good money, but know they deserve more and should be getting better roles or better placement. They had an agent who was doing it, but they don't know how to they're just grateful they've got an agent, and then that, like, Stockholm's kind of vibe where they've got someone and they can't leave.

My accountant died two months ago, and I'm like, oh. Like, he was old, and it was gonna happen. So it's not actually a surprise, but, man, I I literally feel like I'm going through divorce. Because for the first time, I'm having to look for a new partner. What? In twenty years. He was yeah. No one's surprised that he died, but it's just like, maybe, you know, I don't wanna speak ill of the guy, but maybe I should have left him a long time ago. Because now I can see what else is in the market.

But he relied on the fact that I don't like dealing with accounts and whatever, and I just accepted that he always did the job he did. Yeah. It's taken him to die for me to find a new accountant. Wow. Which is fine. I'll find one. But do you know what I mean? I think people Yeah. Agents.

I think people do that with jobs. Yes. Sometimes they wait for them and the worst is when they wait for themselves to die. Yeah. And it's going over. What's been most useful to you on this conversation just going through it?

Well, one, I need to redo my offer. Two, I need to rework my positioning and how I talk about myself and who my ideal client is and make sure those different touch points in my customer journey and finding my newsletter, finding me in general, speak to that. I have to redo my LinkedIn clearly.

Listen. It's not terrible, is it?

There's areas for improvement. Yeah.

You've got more followers than I have. So it's almost more about, for me, at least, from what I'm seeing, it's just a little bit of definition on the front end to stop subscribers that aren't quite right. Link LinkedIn is already a barrier because certain people on LinkedIn

Yes.

Are on LinkedIn. Right? All who are on LinkedIn are already thinking about business in a sensible, slightly more grown up way than the TikTokers. Right?

That's true.

Subscribe to my newsletter could change to the benefit or could change to, like, a slightly triggering question maybe. You still with that agent?

Yeah.

Read this. Like, still with that agent? Read this. Could you be doing do you deserve a better agent? That would be also good. Maybe the agent should be you is the answer. Right? Something that really speaks to the conversation that is going on in their minds. So super interested to see what you do with that.

Okay. Cool. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Very helpful.

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