Summary:

Kate Manahan is the Chief People Officer at BusPatrol, an AI-powered safety tech company keeping kids safe on and around school buses. She previously led People & Culture at Built Technologies and spent 15 years at Bridgewater Associates shaping a feedback-driven culture. Off the field, she’s a mom of three, softball coach, and Little League board member—aka a CPO at work and at home.

Your first big-room at-bat doesn’t come with a safety net. Kate shares how she was tapped to lead Total Rewards overnight, walked into a skeptical boardroom, and learned to swap “have the answer” for “find the best answer.” We break down buying time without bluffing, over-preparing for credibility, the power of one-on-one syndication before the meeting, and the twin engines of career acceleration: a champion who speaks for you and an internal mantra—“you are wildly capable.”

Chapters:

00:00 — First big-room at-bat: fear, stakes, and mindset

03:00 — “You’re in charge now”: thrown into Total Rewards

09:00 — Buying time without bluffing; over-preparing for credibility

12:00 — Sponsor power: the 15-minute pause that changed the room

18:00 — Politics → people dynamics: empathy as operating system

22:00 — Don’t get defensive: the assertive + open-minded balance

26:00 — Career acceleration: why “not knowing” gets less scary

28:00 — Connect with Kate (LinkedIn) + host takeaway

Host Dr. Jim: linkedin.com/in/drjimk

Guest Kate Souza Manahan: linkedin.com/in/katesouzamanahan

Executive Producer Shannon Cornelison: linkedin.com/in/shannon-cornelison-9aa8b8248

Creative Advisor Dr. Jim Kanichirayil: linkedin.com/in/drjimk

Music Credit: "Lost in Dreams" by Kulakovka

And then maybe I could share with you what I'm thinking to get your reaction to it. And every time I've done that, it has again, yielded. A more thoughtful end product and helped with some of that connection upfront. So it's everybody is on the same page [00:01:00] before you even walk in the room.

Speaker: It's your first at bat. You're in the big boardroom. This is your first opportunity to make an impression with all the senior leaders in your organization, and you have to get this right.

Here's the problem in your head. You really don't feel like you should be in this room. You're actually thinking that, I don't know anything about. The space that I'm in, I don't know all the ins and outs about this. What if I start getting questions that I can't answer? What do I do? I'm gonna fall on my face.

That's what's going through your head. So as you're going through all of this, how do you navigate it? What's the path for you to navigate this successfully, maintain and build on your credibility, and then be able to move forward in a way that really accelerates your career? That's what we're gonna actually cover in this conversation today.

She's a lifelong builder of high performance teams and she's also a mom of three, a softball coach and a little league board member making her a Chief people officer, both on and off the field.

Dr. Jim: Kate, welcome to the show.

Kate Manahan: Happy to be here. Thanks, Jim.

Dr. Jim: you and I have done a short form version of this before at a conference. So I'm looking forward to getting a little bit more in the weeds with our conversation. So let's tear the bandaid off and and have you expose yourself to the entire world.

And tell us about that time where you thought you got yourself into something that would get you fired.

You have to go find the best answer. And so [00:04:00] went on a mission to build the subject matter expertise and surround myself with. Experts in order to be able to take that on. But there was certainly an oh shit moment when, I think I got my first email and was like hey, I hear you're the head of this and we have a question.

And I said, what have I gotten myself into?

Dr. Jim: So I, I hear you describing it, and that doesn't sound like a, oh, I'm gonna get myself fired. It sounds more like, oh, I've proven myself for 10 years and now I'm stepping up to a bigger opportunity. So what where was the disconnect? 'cause obviously the people that tapped you on the shoulder to step into the role had faith in you.

This sounds like this is more of an in between the ears issue than an actual I'm gonna burn the house down type issue.

And in that moment, like yes. Now several years later, looking back, I think you're right. But in that moment I personally at least felt totally ill-equipped to take on what I was taking on. And that was the first time in my career. I think I felt like I was out on the tightrope and there was no net below me because I was the person in charge and the buck stopped with me. And, employees were coming to me and our executive team was coming to me asking questions and expecting answers and decisions. And I think that the moment, there was a couple moments at the very beginning where that happened. I was asked for a recommendation. I was asked to address something, I was pulled into a boardroom. And I think, I thought to myself like. I don't know the answer to this, and therefore I'm going to get fired because I don't know the answer.

Dr. Jim: there's a ton in, your first couple of of comments that I want to dig into. I think the first thing that I'd like to get your thoughts on was your comment about, I'm in this role and I don't know anything about it.

So talk us through, looking back. How you overcame that instinct

Kate Manahan: I almost wanna talk about the setup first because I give a lot of credit to my manager who was, a wonderful mentor and sponsor of mine through my career because I think she. He gave me just the right amount of rope in this situation. I don't want to imply that subject matter expertise doesn't matter. You're not gonna have me go fly a plane, right? You don't want me operating on you in the or. But in this instance I think putting me into a space where she knew that. Number one, I would be surrounded by a team that was able to supplement some of the expertise. And then number two I had guardrails in the form of her and running things by her and her helping me to learn and to make thoughtful decisions.

Start with your goal and then the problem and the diagnosis. And so starting with a good framework. To pull in information, I think is one tool. I think the second tool is triangulation with experts, right? Knowing who to pull in, knowing how to ask good questions. The five why's. Keep asking why to really understand. Third, and maybe it's related to the second, is just being able to research information, right? So while number two was like experts at in the form of individuals, the third is just researching in information industry, best practices, et cetera. I think in so many instances, you're not [00:08:00] doing something that hasn't already been done before. In coming up with great people, practices or policies or whatever I was trying to do, I wasn't creating the wheel from scratch, right? There's a lot of great examples out there to learn from. So instead of putting myself through the pain of building it from the ground up, go learn from what other people did and what works well in other companies and other instances and apply that, in the context where I was.

And so I think the combination of those three things helped me. Build a structure around knowing what I didn't know but then also knowing what to do about it and drive towards the right. And a good, thoughtful answer.

Dr. Jim: I really like a lot of what you said there and it leads into, one of the other things that I was gonna ask about, which is, you talked about being in the boardroom for the first time and you're starting to get execs questioning you about all sorts of stuff, and your, I think your quote was, I found myself in a situation where I had to figure out how to buy time or figure out how to get those answers.

Allows you to get the right answers versus just pulling something out of your ear, .

Kate Manahan: Yeah. And when you asked earlier about hey the definitive moment where it was like, oh, I might get fired. That boardroom moment, might qualify in this whole experience. And Jim, I may have told you this story before, but but we'll unpack it and, in terms of buying time and being ready.

And so I spent a ton of time coming up with, my proposal. And another thing that I did was I went to several people. I knew were maybe smarter than me or knew more on the topic, and I said, beat this up. Tell me everything that could go wrong, ask your hardest questions because that, further made it, bulletproof or codified my thinking where, hey, if I go to, 10 people and they ask me the hardest questions, hopefully once I get in that boardroom, I will have thought about all of the different answers.

They wanted to make sure that the company was making the best decisions. And so it came from a good place. But, I walked in and was met with a. Why is she here and why should we listen to her if she doesn't know anything about this topic? And two things happened in, in that boardroom that I think were, again, very formative and I carried with me through my career.

Dr. Jim: I like your emphasis on preparing. And I think one of the other aspects of your answer that I really think is is something that people need to be thinking about is the level of preparation, but especially from people who can poke holes in your theory or your idea.

But you just mentioned that you walked into this and you started feeling some adversarial questions coming at you. Whether they were intentional or not, doesn't matter. You're perceiving it as adversarial and it's probably at some level, it. It's really adversarial because if you're from an underrepresented community, if you're first time in a role, if you're a woman in a boardroom for the first time, your credibility is already under question before you even open your mouth.

That's me narrating. That's not you saying it. That's me saying it. So when that started happening and you started feeling that, how did you navigate that situation without blowing everything up?

Kate Manahan: And we've all been in, in that moment and I felt the blood draining from my face and my hands getting sweaty. And there was two things that happened that shifted the direction of that moment, of that conversation.

And I have seen it myself, and I have validated, I have triangulated. You're gonna give her 15 minutes, and if after 15 minutes you still think that she should not have the seat at the table, then let's discuss that. But please let her share first and then jump in. And then internally, in that moment the fight or flight.

I remember having this thought of what do I have to lose? And also she's right. I know more about this topic than actually anyone around this table. They all might be smarter than me. They might have, more years of tenure or more senior positions at the company. But nobody else has spent the amount of time deeply researching this topic that I have. And I have good thoughts to share with them. And I'm here at this table today. Because of the thoughtful approach that I've taken to this topic. And if I get fired today, I get fired today. But at least I've gone out in a way that, I think is valiant. And I put a lot of effort into this.

Dr. Jim: When I put your answer onto a bumper sticker, the question that comes to mind is, who's speaking for you when you're not in the room? In this particular instance, the person who's speaking for you is in the room. So the question that I have is.

When you look at building that dynamic building, tho those alliances and those advocates who are going to go to bat for you and, advocate for you, what's the process that people need to be thinking about to cultivate that board of directors within the company or even external to the company, that are going to be going to bat for you in situations like that?

Kate Manahan: Yeah. Someone once said to me, you need a champion and a chance, and then you need to pass it forward. And so when I think about, building that board of director it's who are your champions? Who are your champions that you know are, have a natural affinity towards you as an individual?

People love helping other people. You have to give them the open door, right? So identifying your group of champions and then also, and again, depending on where you are in your career also, who are you a champion for? That's the third that the notion of the, and then pass it forward, right? So I think about that all the time. I'm in a position in my career where, I've spent a lot of years doing what I'm doing and I'm part of an executive team. I still need champions. And so who are my champions that are continuing to invest and develop me? But then I'm also thinking on a regular basis of how am I mentoring, the next generation of people in that boardroom?

How am I playing that role that was played for me that day that was so formative in shaping the direction of my confidence and my career.

There's always gonna be some of that that you encounter, and your ability to navigate those successfully can have a big impact on how far you go. So if you're talking to somebody. That isn't skilled at that. How do they get better skilled at navigating? What are the things that they should be watching for and listening for that gives them cues on how to respond and react.

Kate Manahan: Yeah. And I know, politics and company politics is the phrase that's often used, and I don't know, for some reason that's always rubbed me the wrong way. It might be true. I like to think of it as, organizational dynamics and human behavior and, with a backdrop of some psychology behind it.

I was actually just talking to someone on my team about this yesterday and my advice to him was, ahead of sitting down with those five people all around the table at the same time, have you met with them individually? Have you gotten to know, again their business objectives and those kinds of things so that you can come to the table with something that addresses their needs, their concerns kind of head.

Kate Manahan: rhythm?

Yeah, I think there's a couple things I'd highlight. I think it's a great question. One is I think just the mindset, right? If you walk into a conversation with someone and my goal is to get an answer on X, Y, Z, or check this off my checklist, versus use every conversation as an opportunity to learn more about that person and walk in with that as the mindset.

And yes, a secondary outcome is we need to make a decision on x. Number two, it relatedly is ask a ton of questions, right? If somebody says, Hey, I think I do it that way. Interesting. Why? What led you to that decision? What's some of the logic behind that? I just wanna understand the way that you think or the things that you were weighing, in how you made that decision.

And try and almost expose the thinking that actually led to the decision. The decision is easy. They say it, right? It's the thinking that you wanna get at, because that really exposes where they're coming from. And then third, I would just say make it a, make it a priority situation dependent, right?

Can I get a preview of the things they care most about, or how they're going to react to my proposal before I get in the room with all four to make it even better and to make sure it's addressing all of their, needs, questions, concerns.

Dr. Jim: It almost sounds like what you're describing is creating like mini work groups for a problem that you're tackling. Is that the direction that you're going with that or are you talking about something else?

And then maybe I could share with you what I'm thinking to get your reaction to it. And every time I've done that, it has again, yielded. A more thoughtful end product and helped with some of that connection upfront. So it's everybody is on the same page before you even walk in the room.

How do you navigate those sort of feelings and still justify being in the room without actually turning it into a situation where it's argu, argumentative or hostile?

Kate Manahan: Yeah. I love that question because so many times I have seen what you're describing, the dynamic you're describing of the defensiveness and. Very rarely do I see that go well. But I agree with you. It's the first inclination. I actually think it's incredibly important to demonstrate a certain level of humility. Now, humility doesn't mean lack of confidence or insecurity, but a humility around knowing what you don't know, right? And willing to hear others' opinions. And I used to talk a lot with folks about this balance of assertive and open-minded, right? And you need to find the balance in the middle if you're too open-minded, right?

Dr. Jim: I like everything that you said, and I think. The part that it connects back to is your advice on asking questions when you are feeling whatever you're feeling in your head. A good way to. Zoom out is to ask what people mean by the things that they say, and that's gonna give you clarity.

So it's been an ongoing conversation about, okay, what did we learn from this? But when you look back at that experience and you spin that forward, what were the two biggest things that you pulled out of that experience that you feel are most impactful or would be most impactful for somebody that's actually listening to this conversation?

Kate Manahan: Yeah, that's a great question. I think I take it back to the two things that happened that day the external and the internal, and just put a point on those for someone listening, because I think you need to have both. So one, I think you need to have. That champion or you need to have, someone to help guardrail you.

And one thing I tell every girl when she gets up to bat is you are wildly capable. I make them say that to themselves before they get up to bat. 'cause every girl walks up to the plate and thinks she's gonna strike out. And if you walk into the boardroom, if you walk up to bat and you think you're gonna strike out, you have a higher chance of actually striking out. If you walk in and think, I am wildly capable, you show up with that energy and you put your best foot forward and sometimes you will strike out or sometimes you'll swing and miss or whatever it might be. But I think showing up with the right mentality is half the battle. And I think lots of times. Especially it's, research women in senior positions and women in board boardrooms and those things need that kind of internal monologue and confidence to be able to show up well.

When you think about how that. Experience helped you hit fast forward on your career. What are some of the big ways that it actually helped you accelerate your career in leadership?

Kate Manahan: It made not knowing so much less scary. And the reason why that helps you accelerate is when you stumble across something you've never done before. It's oh, look, something new. I have a recipe for how I'm going to tackle this. It's the, as we talked about earlier, the frameworks bring in the experts and do the research. So in my career, the first time I ever had an acquisition working for a startup, and we were gonna acquire a company. I had never done that before as a people leader, and I was the person in charge. But it wasn't scary. It was exciting and certainly I, applied other things that I did in those other situations.

Dr. Jim: I want you to think about this entire conversation that we had, and I want you to focus, I'd like you to focus on that person that is taking their big step up maybe taking their first big at bat, going with your softball conversation, and you're helping them build a framework of navigating that sort of circumstance successfully.

What are the key things that they need to have in place to successfully? Manage a situation like you faced and then come out the other end with a big success.

So it's hard to get super prescriptive. But I think just starting with what are you trying to do and really knowing what that looks like at the necessary level of granularity and how are you gonna do it?

Kate Manahan: I am on LinkedIn feel free to, to reach out and send a message. I'd be happy to connect there and talk more with anyone who's interested.

Dr. Jim: when I think about this conversation, there's a few things that I wanna call out. One is the fact that it's okay to be in your head and the reason why you're in your head in those sort of situations can be tied to the same thing.

If you've played any sport, it's those pre-game jitters. You're, the reason why you're feeling those things is because there's a certain amount of fear. Associated with it. But that fear is driven by expectations. That there are things riding on this, and actually the moment that you should be really afraid is when you're not feeling those things.

Really centers into your mindset, crafting your own reality. If you're walking into a room and you feel like you have to defend everything and you have to create a fight, you're gonna be naturally leaning towards creating a confrontation instead of a collaboration. So be aware of what your mindset is, and it ties back into one of the things that you mentioned in the conversation that you're capable of more than you think.

And oftentimes we. Undersell ourselves in terms of our capabilities, and that is what actually leads us into problems is underestimating ourselves and getting in our heads and really downplaying what we actually know, which leads us into a lot of different problems that we could easily avoid if we had the right mindset.