"Everybody can be a steward of Penn’s Woods in some way."

Our host, Marci Mowery, sits down with Seth Cassell, Director of the Pennsylvania Bureau of Forestry, also known as the State Forester, to take a sweeping look at one of Pennsylvania's most consequential and quietly essential agencies.

Seth came to the role with a deep reverence for the state's remarkable forest heritage and a vision for what stewardship in the 21st century demands.

Pennsylvania's Bureau of Forestry oversees more than 2.2 million acres of state forest, but Seth is quick to point out that its reach goes far beyond that number.

With 16 million acres of total forest in the commonwealth (70% of it privately owned), the Bureau operates as a statewide resource, providing technical assistance to roughly 650,000 private landowners, coordinating wildfire suppression, planting riparian buffers, and advancing urban tree canopy programs.

Pennsylvania holds a rare distinction. It was the first state to certify its entire state forest system under the Forest Stewardship Council, achieving that milestone in 1998, and later added Sustainable Forestry Initiative certification to become dual-certified, a testament to decades of rigorous, accountable management.

The Bureau's new strategic plan, Forests for All, signals a meaningful cultural shift, explicitly naming people and communities in its mission for the first time.

Recreation across the system runs the gamut from scenic driving and snowmobiling to primitive backcountry camping on river islands, with a particular emphasis on the irreplaceable value of quiet. Wild and natural areas like Allen Seeger and Hammersley offer Pennsylvania's closest thing to true wilderness, while a growing focus on soundscape research reflects a commitment to protecting that stillness.

Seth champions the power of partnership, crediting the Pennsylvania Parks and Forests Foundation and a broad ecosystem of collaborators as essential to delivering on the Bureau's mission.

He believes that everyone can be a steward of Penn’s Woods.

Key Topics:

1. Ecosystem Management Explained (01:19)
2. The "Forests for All" Strategic Plan (10:12)
3. Incident Management and Emergency Response (14:10)
4. Recreational Opportunities in State Forests (15:36)
5. Camping: Primitive, Roadside, and Water Trails (21:08)
6. Wild Areas and Natural Areas (25:28)
7. Forests and Water Quality (27:54)
8. The Value of Planting Trees (29:34)
9. Wildfire Prevention and Spring Fire Season (33:25)
10. Partnership and the Trail Stewards Program (37:31)

Resources:

1. Bureau of Forestry: https://www.pa.gov/agencies/dcnr/programs-and-services/about/bureaus-and-offices/forestry
2. Strategic Plan: https://www.pa.gov/agencies/dcnr/conservation/forests-and-tree/state-forest-management/penn-woods-strategic-plan
3. Role of Quiet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQwXLJRHEqA&t=231s
4. Forests, Clean Water and Craft Beverages: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JGwntQQpvc&t=187s
5. Finley Center for Private Forests: https://ecosystems.psu.edu/research/centers/private-forests
6. Take Along Guide to Wild and Natural Areas: https://paparksandforests.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/2024-natural-and-wild-areas-booklet.pdf
7. Mira Lloyd Dock: https://paconservationheritage.org/documentaries/
8. Burn Bans: https://www.pa.gov/agencies/dcnr/programs-and-services/community-outreach-and-development/wildfire/burn-bans

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Keeping forest as forests is really paramount before we even talk about tree planting. I've seen research where once you get at the watershed level below 50% forests, is where you start having some challenges with water quality in Pennsylvania, where it's 60% forested. So we got to keep an eye on that whole state, keeping forest as forest, keeping them well managed, we talked about the certified systems that we have. But keep forests healthy, keep them as forests and keep them well managed is probably the first thing we have to do.

Imagine a place where stress fades, fresh air fills your lungs, an adventure waits around every corner. Welcome to think outside. The podcast that inspires you to explore, connect and embrace the outdoors. Welcome to think outside with the Pennsylvania Parks and Forest Foundation. I'm your host. Marcy Mowry, today we're going to explore the Pennsylvania bureau of forestry. With me is Seth castle. He is the Director of the Bureau of forestry, and sometimes he's also called the state forester. So thank you Seth for joining me.

Yeah, thank you, Marcy. It's great to be here with you this morning.

I'm excited to talk about our state forests. We're fortunate in Pennsylvania to have over 2.2 million acres sustainably managed, right? And that's that's a big lift for an agency. So tell me a little bit about what the role of the Bureau of forestry is.

Yeah, right. So you know, we have a really important mission in Pennsylvania. Our state forests are a really big part of that. We have an even broader mission than that. Then, you know, we can serve steward, enhance the Commonwealth's forest. So we look at trying to provide technical assistance and leadership and conserving forests all across Pennsylvania, everything from working with private forest landowners planting trees along streams and rivers and in towns and communities and where people live, we have roles in native plant conservation and wildfire suppression and prevention. So a lot of roles that go across the whole state, and that lot of leadership roles. But then when we get to the State Forest system, that 2.2 million acres, more than 2.2 million acres, is really a big part of the work that we do every day, and we really manage that state forest system from what we call an ecosystem management approach, you know, really trying to understand the ecosystem and improve its health and resilience, all while providing a lot of different values for for people and communities, everything from recreation, clean water, wood products, clean air, scenic driving, all kinds of different values that we manage for so I think really, our thing is it's forest, but doing a lot of things on those forests, but managing it in a healthy, sustainable way.

There's a lot to unpack that was a lot. Well, let's start with ecosystems. For our listeners that don't understand what you mean by the ecosystem approach, could you define that in terms that are understandable by the public?

Yeah, sure. And when we think about ecosystems, you're really the main thing is there are a lot of there are there are plants, there are wildlife, there's habitat, there's funga, there are all kinds of things that are interacting all kinds of processes. And so I think ecosystem management is sort of understanding that there are a lot of processes, some of the things that we don't know about that we have to manage within that context and do things that make that ecosystem healthier in the long run. And I'll give you an example, like with our our forest management, our timber harvesting. We were harvesting trees for a goal of one of the goals is to provide wood products to society, but it's also habitat improvement, improving health and resilience of the forest. So all those things kind of come together, recognizing that that humans need wood products, but also that in that management, we're also improving the ecosystem as well.

And I think you touch on an important point, because sometimes, you know, we hear comments from people like, hey, they're cutting down the forest. You know, aren't they supposed to be protecting the forest, right? Right? And I know the enabling legislation that created the with what became the forest bureau of forestry, timber management is part of that, recreation is part of that. And I think the third part is water.

Yep, there's there, yep, water is in there for sure.

Yeah, yeah. So it is part of what you're doing, but you've been recognized for decades as doing that in a sustainable manner. So can you talk a little bit about

what that is? Yeah, absolutely. We were the first in North America to have a whole State Forest system certified by the Forest Stewardship Council, and then we later, in 2018 became certified by Sustainable Forestry Initiative. So we're dual certified. And what these programs do is they have international and national standards that really look at, you know, how can a forest be managed in a sustainable way? And it includes a lot of different aspects, ecological wood products, human use, recreation. Foundation water, and there are standards associated with these agreed upon standards in the forestry environmental community, and we manage to those standards. We do have our management plan to serve the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, but it's managed against these standards. And every every year, we're looked at to make sure we're meeting those standards, and we do a really good job with that certification process, and I think it's a stamp of approval on what we're doing in the Bureau of forestry. Are our employees, how their expertise in managing and we're bringing a lot together. So we're not just, as you mentioned, just doing one thing. We're not just managing for timber, wood products. We're managing for health and resilience, recreation and water, all these different things. And the certification gives us, think it gives the public some reassurance that we are managing that high level helps us improve. There are always things we can improve on. And it also helps the wood products industry market the certified wood products to help increase access to markets where

that's required, and I like the fact that it's not a once and done certification, right, that you're held to the standard and you're and you're you're tested or observed, so that you are maintaining that standard,

right, right? And those standards continue to evolve, and we welcome it, and it's a great opportunity for us every year when the auditors come to really, you know, we open the hood of our operations. And you know, we always, we have high standards for ourselves, and when there are things that we can improve on, we take that to heart and try to get better. Because all at the end, it's, you know, improving the ecosystem and serving people. And I think Pennsylvania deserves that high level of management stewardship of its state forest system that we deliver on

year after Excellent. Well, we thank you for that. Thanks. Yeah. Now you mentioned that you work beyond the the the 2.2 million acres because i It's the number 16 million acres of forest in Pennsylvania. Yes, yep. So there's 16 million acres of forest in Pennsylvania. Only 2.2 million are owned by the Bureau of forestry. So that's a lot of private forest landowners. And how do you work with those owners?

Yeah, 70% of the forests in Pennsylvania are privately owned. And when you really unpack there's research from Penn State and US Forest Service Penn State, with the Findley center for private forest, you know, really looks at those that land ownership, and they're 650,000 or so, no private forest landowners in Pennsylvania. A lot of them are smaller acreages. Don't quote me on the number of but somewhere around like 2550 acres is the norm. So a lot of the future of Pennsylvania's forest is really in the hands of these smaller landowners. So for us to it's just not good enough for us to manage the State Forest sustainably. It's really important part of what we do. But for the forest of Pennsylvania, that 16 and a half million acres that you mentioned, Marcy, it's really important that we engage landowners, help them with some of the management challenges. And there are an awful lot of management challenges we can talk about later, but being that technical assistance, connecting them with people who can help them. Our new strategic plan, you know, just talks about having we don't just need to connect with people. We need to inspire them to be stewards as well, and so for them to take ownership of that. And we can help them. Help educate. We can help with technical assistance, help them along their path, but we really want to inspire people to be stewards. That's really important for the future of our forests. Well, that does

lead to the question, how do you inspire people

to be stewards? Right? Well, you know what? I think the one thing that's really helpful is people love their forests. When people really get to know them, they really connect with them. And we're seeing that more and more that people there's a growing sense of connection to the land. We see this with with funga. We have our mycologist in Pennsylvania now the bureau forestry, and just there's a lot of people who are connecting with mushrooms and fungus, just really interested in it. Other people connect with wildlife, seeing wildlife on their property. Some people connect through hunting and recreation. So there's all these avenues, and I think that's a really important place to start with landowners is the values that they have. How we can help them maintain those values with, in some cases, active management and stewardship, it's really important to for our foresters, when we work with landowners, to come with open ears, understanding what's important to people and then tailoring our assistance to them with those goals in mind. But more and more people are really seeing the value. It's not just the trees up on the mountain anymore. More and more people are there's deeper connections being forged that we see that's really encouraging.

I've seen with some of my friends who have acreage, is they find the peace, right? You know, it brings them a sense of of connection, a sense of peace reduces their stress. Big reason why

people might. People own forest land for esthetics and that peace and quiet.

Yes, you had mentioned that with the state forest lands that you have a strategic plan that guides you. Could you tell us a little bit about that strategic plan?

Yeah, sure. So our strategic plan, it guides our whole organization and all aspects of our mission, both on state forest and off the state forest. Now, I think there are a couple really kind of key shifts since our last strategic plan. It is called forest for all. So I think it's acknowledging that that part of our Constitution, we're managing natural resources for all people. Think we need to recognize for us to maintain our relevance, to enhance our public service, we have to look at things through those lens, that lens of all 13 million Pennsylvanians, but furthermore, it's an acknowledgement in our plan. So we actually, we changed our mission. Our previous mission served us well for many years, but it didn't mention people. And so these shifts are important, I think, for how an organization sees itself and how it approaches its public service and its work. And we added a whole part of our mission that says, you know, connecting with all the people and communities we serve. And so first and foremost, we are, we're a natural resource organization, we're a forestry organization, and we have those responsibilities, but it's important to acknowledge that we're a certain public service organization, and that for us to accomplish our mission, we really need to engage with with all people, and we said people and communities, because it's not only important to connect with people individually, but how they come together as communities too. That's important as well. So that's a shift for us and how we think. And we've always been a public service or organization, but I think by putting it in our mission, it just raises its level of importance. And then there are some other pieces to it, just looking at adapting recreation, adapting the different recreational uses, one state forest, climate resilience and forest health across all forests, and then also a priority we call investing in our people and teams is just this acknowledgement that our employees do the work and we can have the best strategic plan, a solid budget and tools and resources. But if we don't have a really solid workforce, and we've always had that, it's been a strength. But how do we continue that over the long run? How do we invest in our workforce to get all this work done? In a nutshell, that sort of paints a picture of what we're trying to do in our strategic plan.

I'd like to ask a question about your workforce, because I think when you think of the Bureau of forestry, you think they're foresters, right, right? But you have people with a lot of different job titles, right? I mean, just give us a snapshot, because we don't have time

to list all of the job titles. It is. I think we have a bulk of our of our workforce we do but forestry backgrounds, and there's a lot of different kinds of foresters, you know, we have wildlife foresters, service foresters and fire foresters and resource management foresters. So there's a lot of diversity even within the forester workforce and what they do. But beyond that, you know, I talked about, we have a conservation mycologist, we have forest health specialists, entomologists, we have a forest health geneticist now that we just hired recently, we have an invasive species ecologists. We have we have geologists, we have environmental education specialists. And another area that we've ramped up in the last few years, adding more environmental education specialists yet, we have fire investigators and very talented administrative staff that help us get our work done maintenance are probably close to half. I think last time I looked, 46% of our workforce come from the maintenance and trade. So these are the very important people who keep our roads open, keep trails accessible, maintenance, repairmen and women, forest maintenance workers. It really runs the gamut. So we do have a very diverse workforce into things that they do maintenance and trades, natural resources, all those different roles, and they're all very

important, yeah. And I just, I like that you painted that picture, because I think people think, well, I'd love to have a career in maybe in the Bureau of forestry, but I'm not a forester, but that there are a lot of different opportunities for people. You also have an amazing incident response team, right? Can we talk a little bit about them and what they do?

Yeah, absolutely. So our significant way, I think, that we provide leadership in Pennsylvania, is through our wildfire preparation. You know, we have incident management teams that have been born out of the need to respond to complex wildland fires. And you know, through that these teams can actually, they can respond to different types of emergencies. Recently, some of the flooding events in Tioga County. You know, we were a big part of that. Our incident management team went up there, Westfield. Borough, up there, we helped them out through the flooding. And that structure can help with a lot of different disasters or complex incidents. And recently, we sent some folks. I wasn't the organized incident management team in full, but. Sent some staff out to Philadelphia this winter to help with snow removal and during an emergency snow situation. So we find ourselves responding to all different types of emergencies and search and rescues as well, where we use some of the lessons we've learned in our incident response to do search and rescues on state forest land. So more and more we're being looked at, not only for that wildland fire response, but also for emergency response. And the people involved with that are just some of the finest public servants we have, really good at what they do, sometimes working long hours and weekends to get the job done.

Yeah, and that's appreciated. You had mentioned the different types of foresters, I know now too, that you have recreation foresters, right? Recreation and that you know you're embracing that aspect of what the forest brings. What are some of the recreational opportunities that someone might find in a state forest?

Yeah, incredibly diverse. In fact, we talked about that in a strategic plan about one of the roles that we have on State Forest is provide diverse recreation, and there's having more than 2.2 million acres large landscapes, some of the largest unbroken landscapes in Pennsylvania, really gives us the opportunity to have types of recreation that maybe you can't find elsewhere. So some of the examples, and I'll think about some of the more popular things when we do surveys or public input sessions, believe it or not, consistently, one of the most popular things is scenic driving. People like to drive and view the forest. I'm actually looking forward to that this weekend, we're going up to my father, who has some mobility restrictions now in his advanced age. We're going up to northern Pennsylvania, and there's, you can't hike very far. We're going to take a few short walks, but I'm looking forward to just driving around and looking at the scenery. I know he's looking for a change of you too. A lot of people like doing that. And, you know, walking and hiking is really important. We have, you know, 1000s of miles of trails on State Forest people like to picnic, hunting and fishing continues to be a really strong role in Pennsylvania, a lot of people turn to our state forest land for all kinds of hunting, fishing opportunities, other activities. They're rock climbing opportunities. We do have, you know, quite we have 300 miles of dedicated ATV motorized recreation trails. And then we're part of and have been organizing the North Central Regional ATV trail, where there's almost when you include the municipal and township roads. Are almost 1000 miles of trails in northern Pennsylvania open to ATVs. So there are motorized recreational opportunities throughout Pennsylvania and the State Forest system. Snowmobiles. Snowmobiles is a big one. Thank you. That's been very we had some really good opportunities here. And that's, I think, talking about those large landscapes, you know, we can provide those places where people can ride for long distances. I was talking to somebody other day just how much they said the landscape is so different in the wintertime, and they could never experience all the scenery in any other way. You know, so being have the access to the snowmobile trails that we have 1000s of miles of those, the VISTAs connecting with communities, it is really a unique experience. The snow has not been cooperating as much this year. It wasn't too bad, but that's another important one. And I'm sure I know there's just dozens of ways, people going out in groups. I hear groups going out doing yoga together on State Forest, other types of activities like that. I miss mountain biking, which, which my son is a he's not a mountain biker, big gravel biker. Gravel bikes on state forest. So many different ways, equestrian and I think really, that's what's special, is we're not it's not just one thing. It's all those things coming together across the landscape that really shines a light on the work that we do.

One of the things that I enjoy about forestry Trails is the quiet. You know, because these are large landscapes. You can go into places where you experience quiet like you may not experience on your day to day living. And we had worked with the Bureau of forestry to do a video on how important quiet is to our mental health. You also have some amazing old growth forests where you just get in there, and it's such a different experience than being in a young forest, right? Like I think about the Allen Seager natural area and how that makes you feel when you're standing among the Giants, Giants for Pennsylvania, yeah, yeah, yeah, cross country skiing, I popped into my head as well, since we did have some snow this year, absolutely.

And that's one of my favorite things to do, cross country skiing. And I had shoulder surgery this year, and it was really difficult to see the snow and not be able to participate. Now, probably one of my favorite things to do, my family has done that as well. It's a great, great activity, the quiet. If you want to explore the quiet a little bit, I think. That's a big value that we have. I remember being in the Algerian wild area when I was a teenager, several miles back in deer hunting with my father, and just like, just stopped. I'm like, can't hear anything. And I really relate to that. I think, I think it's part of our heritage, and I think it's something that we need to as the build up areas of towns and cities get more and more build out, and it does seem like sometimes there's more and more sound out there. I think we need to have those places where people can unwind for their mental health. That's another important thing. Our state forests are good for, for improving people's mental health. Have those places that we can experience quiet. Wild areas are natural areas, and we do have we are trying to learn more about soundscapes, and we're we're funding some research there are, there are activities on the state forest land that we need to manage, like some of our own gas activity, the motorized recreation, and we've done studies with both of those activities, trying to understand the sound how it impacts people, what the sound level is, how we can mitigate for it. So I think it's something that we need to continue need to continue to manage, because I think it's a value that we really can bring to the table. In Pennsylvania, you can go somewhere where it's quiet, yeah, I

appreciate that, because that is one of the aspects of the forest that are so important to me. Yeah, and many others, you mentioned a lot of different activities, and camping popped into my head, because you do have primitive camping, you have roadside camping, you also have water trails that run through the forest, which allow canoe and kayak camping. So can you touch a little bit on the camping opportunities in a state forest? Yeah, right, right.

And it is I'm having such a good time, because as you're talking about these things, I'm remembering things and experiences out in the state forest that I had personally, and it's just great to be able to provide those experience to so many people. We do have different types. We have, again, I'll bring up the word. We have diverse opportunities for camping. I can go the state forest land close to my house. Wiser state forest, there are equestrian camping areas, where they're specifically designed for to have camp with horses and, in turn, with the trailers. So we have, there's those kinds of opportunities. We have opportunities for people with campers. I think where we really shine is some of our primitive camping. So I think there's different types you have the you're backpacking, you're in a water trail, and you have a tent, and you're allowed to camp. You follow certain rules around water and campfires. I did a lot of that when I was younger. I still threatened to do it a little bit more end up getting older, but I did a lot when I was when I was younger, and I just loved that just being out in the middle of the woods and camping and primitive camping experience as part of backpacking or an overnight trip. I think there aren't that many places you can just do that anymore. I think that's a big value that we bring. And you mentioned the water trails. I also can think of an experience with my son going out on the Susquehanna before he left for military basic training. That was the last thing we did together. Yeah, and camped on an island, and it is really a unique experience. And we have the Bureau of forestry. We manage and own a lot of river islands. We own a lot of them just outright as part of state forest. But then there are certain ones that, if they're not, they're under a certain size, or if they're not, go back to a valid warrant or patent, then, by default, they come to the Bureau of forestry as state forest land. And so there are a lot of opportunities to camp on river islands. You're out canoeing. We have some designated primitive camp sites, like in the Pine Creek Valley. There are some some designated sites for primitive type camping on the water trail. So there are all different sorts of experiences that you can have, from parking your car and camping to canoeing and camping, a lot of different opportunities, but just a great way, like, you're just immersed like, and that's what I always appreciated about it. You're immersed in the state forest day and night. It's not just you're not you don't feel as much like a visitor.

Feel like you're part of it. And we'll clarify that with the car camping, you do need to make a reservation, and there is a fee for that, but it's rustic camping. There are no showers, there are no latrines, so be prepared. But if you're backpacking or canoeing, you know it's helpful to let the district know that you're camping, so if there's an emergency, and if you're going to be more than you have to be one

night, correct? So our primitive camping, if you you can't use the State Forest rules and regs, you can't use the car to assist you. So basically, what that's saying is, for if you're backpacking, you're out in the back country, and you can you stay there one night certain distances from from waterways. Yeah, you can't stay there for more than one night. So it's really designed for low impact. You know, you're camping moving, same with the water trails. But it is, it is really important to let the forest district know. And I think it is always good to contact the forest district. There are, you know, help you understand the opportunities that are out there. Our website is. Always a good source. And we do have some of those camping sites, like you mentioned, they don't have necessarily a lot of amenities, but you can reserve them for a small fee, so you know when you get there that you can camp.

But there, and there's typically fire ring and a picnic table. So you do have some amenities,

some amenities, right? But you don't, maybe quite not the same level of you were staying at a state parks, like a shower house and those kinds of facilities. Oh, you

mentioned wild and natural areas, yeah. Can you tell us what those are?

I love talking about wild natural areas. I think they're one of the, just the treasured resources that we have in our state forest system. And so the 2.2 million acres, there are these areas that we carve out and we put them in the same bucket. We talk about wild natural areas, but they're very different. Natural Areas are usually there's like an ecological resource, like a wetland or a bog, or like a geologic resource or a scenic resource that we then they're usually smaller that we say, this is so special, we're really going to limit, we want to enhance the character of these areas. And we're not going to, you know, allow, like, a lot of signage, or we're not going to be putting, we might put a parking lot the edge of them, but we're not putting a parking, parking lots for infrastructure in them. We don't allow camping in them. They're supposed to really, like, be set aside to promote that ecological value. So you mentioned old growth. So those are other areas, natural areas, like the Allen Seager. You know, there's a lot of different examples of the kinds of ecological resources that we're trying to manage for. So that's the highest protection that we have in Pennsylvania, in the state forest system. And then the wild areas are a little bit different. There are meant to be larger areas. They're at least 3000 acres, and we have some a lot more, like the Hammersley wild area that these are large expanses. They're the closest thing that we have the wilderness in Pennsylvania. They're managed for back country opportunities. They're managed. They're roadless areas. You're not allowed to have roads to these areas. You know, they're trying to maintain the wild character the landscape. And these are really special places as well. But we're really when we talked about quiet, and those are the first places I would go to some of our wild areas for that peace and quiet. But they're just wonderful part of our system that we don't unless there's a special circumstance, we don't do active forest management, like timber harvesting or oil and gas development, just really keep things to a minimum, let nature take its course. Have those back country areas, but I will say, though, that it is getting harder just to let nature take its course. There are so many impacts to the system, I think we're wrestling a little bit with, how do we is a hands off approach really the right way to enhance some of these values. So it's a kind of a philosophical discussion we're having. But overall, these, these are just wonderful landscapes that we try to leave alone and kind of give folks a remnant of what our forest used to be like many centuries ago.

I think about the hemlock natural area, which is one of the ones that was originally like, you know, know that we're not actively managing it, yet the hemlock wooly adelgid, right? It's such an adverse impact. So it is changes it, yeah, there's this, this balance that you have to maintain, and that it is, I imagine there are some deep conversations that are happening surrounding that you had mentioned when you initially started about water and water quality, and we had worked with the Bureau of forestry as well on looking at trees clean water and the craft beverage industry in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, because I don't know that people always connect the fact that trees are critical to our water quality and our water system. And you mentioned about planting trees along water courses, riparian plantings. So can you talk a little bit about how you're managing the forest and working in communities to protect water quality?

Yes, yes. Water so important. Before I talk about present day, I just want to make a point that Mario Lloyd dock just someone I just respect immeasurably. That's really how she got the attention of a lot of influential people back in the late 1800s early 1900s is not too far from here in the Susquehanna, seeing the muddy water coming down and making that connection to forest conservation and something that's so important to human life, really helped spawn the conservation movement. And Pennsylvania was viewed at, like the three big rivers in Pennsylvania, we were a lot of ways at the headwater state to these major river systems. So that really helped us kickstart the conservation movement, not only Pennsylvania, across the US. You know, I think to start before we get into those restoration efforts, is keeping forests as forests is really paramount before we even talk about tree planting. I've seen research where once you get at the watershed level below 50% forests, is where you start having some challenges with water quality. In Pennsylvania, where it's 60% forested. So we got to keep an eye on that whole state, keeping forest as forest, keeping them well managed. We. Talked about the certified systems that we have. There's other ways to be sustainable around forest management, but keep forests healthy, keep them as forests, and keep them well managed is probably the first thing we have to do. But then when there's situations where you don't have forests, and that's where you get into how do we improve the water quality. So our watershed forestry, a stream side forest, sometimes called riparian buffers. You know, planting trees along streams really important for water quality. Chesapeake Bay habitat and even potentially recreation, as these trees and forests grow and create these corridors of forest along streams and rivers. So doing that is one of the there's all kinds of research out there about those benefits. It's almost instant. You know, as soon as you start planting trees, they start growing they bring insects, they bring wildlife, they start to stabilize the soil, start to put organic matter into the streams. That help with aquatic insects and trout and other fish. That's really important. But then in in cities and towns and where people live, also just planting as many trees as we can, and having a canopy of trees, you know, help slow down storm water, helps provide habitat. All those things, clean clean air, provide shade for people. All those things are just really important in the built environment, to put as many trees as possible, but can't put them everywhere. Put them along streams. Put them where people spend their time, so they can enjoy them.

Yeah, but it is one thing that people could do to help with water quality, to help with air quality, to help with you know, a lot of municipalities have storm water issues. To help protect birds, is to to plant a tree? Yeah, yeah.

And I want to pick up on that point, because we have talked about the State Forest system. We've talked about millions of acres. We talked about landowners with 20 or 30 acres or 50 acres. But you bring up a really good point, is that you don't have to own land like that. You can do a lot in a very small space, your corner of the world, the public park in your community. If you plant native plants, if you plant a shrub, if you plant a couple trees, you can have a big impact. That impact adds up over time. And so I don't want people to think that they can't be stewards of Penn's woods. Everybody can be a steward of Penns woods in some way, and sometimes just planting a tree is one of the most powerful things that you can do for the environment and for your community.

Yes, and you mentioned climate resiliency, I believe it's the number one thing that you can do to help with climate resiliency. Yeah, absolutely,

from not only from an ecological perspective, but in Secretary Dunn talks about this a lot of just in the human built environment in our towns and cities and where we live. As it gets warmer, people want shade. They want to it's going to be more and more important to cool off these communities. And you see it, you know, spikes in temperature in the summertime, you're seeing it more and more and having trees that provide that shade the cooler buildings, is important now it's going to be even more important

in the future. There's one tree in the parking lot here at our office, and you find in the summer, people come in early and earlier to be the person who gets to park in the shade. You know, I'm like, why can't we just plant more trees? Yeah, I know everybody tries to get underneath the tree, all

kinds of values trees provide. Yes,

yes. Who likes to get in a car that's 100 degrees as we start to wrap up, we're recording this just as we're starting to get into wildfire season. So what can listeners do to reduce the potential of starting a wildfire. Yeah? Because in Pennsylvania, many of them are human caused.

That's true. Yeah. And I took my dog for a walk this morning, before I came here, and I could feel it. You could it moves, getting warm already. Yes, was

70 some degrees yesterday, warm season.

Grasses, the leaves drop very quickly, and it's March. But a lot of people don't realize that, because we associate April with like rain, but it's actually one of the it's the lowest humidity month in Pennsylvania, because without the canopy in the trees and the green grass, the green leaves in the sun going right to the forest floor, it dries out very quickly. Dries out very quickly. Even if you have rain in the morning, be dry and having wildfires. Having wildfires in the afternoon. So I think everything one of the biggest things, most of our fires are human cause. Almost in the high 90s, are human caused fires. So just really being mindful of debris burning, try to avoid burning debris. If you do, there's some online resources about how to do it in a safe way, but don't do it, you know, monitor the wildfire conditions, and they're on our website, deep rear forestry website. You can go and see what the conditions are, but you also just can look out and see, okay, is it going to be a dry day today? A lot of people miss that, and they think it's a summer thing, but it's really a. Spring and Fall, where we see our highest wildfire danger. So be very careful if you're gonna do any kind and whether it's a campfire or if you're gonna burn some a lot of people sometimes burn cardboard and things like that. We don't necessarily recommend that, but if you do that, just be very careful about when you're doing it, because that causes a lot of the wildfires that we have. And isn't there

a burn ban for campfires in the state of forest?

In the state forest? Yes? In the spring, yeah, spring fire season. And we'll

link to that in the in the show notes, so people will be aware of that we are coming to a close. But I wanted to make sure that we touched on the things that you wanted to share. We're not going to necessarily have time today to dive into all 20 forest districts, to dive into the myRA Lloyd dock Resource Conservation Center. I'm so glad you brought Myra up. Yeah, she's one of my heroines as well. But what else would you like listeners to know about the Bureau of forestry?

Yeah, well, we covered a lot of ground. I think maybe the one thing, and we've talked about engaging landowners in the public. But maybe I'd like make end note our partners are we can't get our work done. We do have, Pennsylvania has one of the strongest forestry programs in the nation, state forestry programs. But even still, there's so much work to do that we need our partners and our partner. You can call it a partner ecosystem here in Pennsylvania is really strong, and we need those partners. And I think our strongest work in forestry is when we work together. And I really just want to highlight your organization and the work that you all do to and it is very much in line with our strategic plan of what we said earlier. We were talking about private forest landowners, but just fostering that sense of stewardship and ownership in our public lands. You know, getting people to engage channel their you know, their impulse to volunteer and be part of something greater in our public lands, our state parks and forests. You know, the work that your organization is doing is just so important with that. You know, we really appreciate that partnership, and we have a lot of really good partners. We help each other out, and that as a partnership ecosystem and state government ecosystem, we were delivering for Pennsylvania and really do important work that that's bigger than than any individual or any individual organization. So I like to thank our partners. I like to thank Pennsylvania parks and Forest Foundation all the you. Foundation, all the members and then the leadership of you and your team for providing such a great service and role in all of this. Thank you.

Thank you. And we are working with you right now the Bureau of forestry to launch a trail stewards program which would allow people to volunteer more on their time schedule, as well as, you know, the RE releasing the stewards of Penns woods, where people could, we'll use the word adopt a VISTA to, you know, to be somebody that goes out there periodically, just to give it a little love. So stay tuned for more.

Also, so important to have that help and that engagement.

Yeah, excellent. Well, thank you, Seth, I'm so glad you were able to join us, and we'll have you back once you have your your quiet study done. We'd love to hear more about that. Yeah, the irony. We'll talk about quiet, right? Yes, we will. Thanks so much.

Was really enjoyable. I really enjoyed talking about

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