Why do so many of us feel responsible for everyone else's emotions?Have you ever found yourself saying yes when you wanted to say no? Feeling guilty for setting boundaries? Or carrying the weight of other people's feelings long after the conversation has ended?

In this episode of Psychology, Actually, I am joined by forensic psychologist Dr Nicole Harvey to explore the psychology of people pleasing, emotional responsibility, boundaries and the surprisingly powerful "dog poo bag" analogy.

We discuss why people pleasers often become exhausted, overwhelmed and resentful, how childhood experiences can shape our relationship patterns, and why saying no can feel genuinely frightening for some people. We also explore complex trauma, coercive control, workplace dynamics, anger, self-worth and the process of learning to put down emotional baggage that was never yours to carry in the first place.

Whether you're a recovering people pleaser, someone who struggles with boundaries, or simply curious about relationship psychology, this episode offers practical insights and plenty of moments that may feel uncomfortably familiar.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 The dog poo bag analogy explained
• 01:23 Why Dr Nicole Harvey became interested in people pleasing
• 02:36 Carrying emotions that don't belong to you
• 03:29 How resentment quietly builds
• 04:28 Early signs you may be a people pleaser
• 05:46 Saying yes when you really mean no
• 06:45 How people pleasing shows up at work
• 07:56 Power dynamics, managers and authority figures
• 08:20 Why saying no can feel genuinely frightening
• 09:20 Anger, boundaries and complex trauma
• 10:07 Losing yourself in relationships
• 11:15 Parenting, autonomy and enmeshment
• 12:40 How people pleasing develops in childhood
• 13:45 The impact on physical and emotional health
• 14:26 Recovery as a lifelong process
• 15:40 The Dog Poo Bag Test
• 16:36 Final reflections and next steps

Links:

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Imagine walking around carrying bags of dog poo all day, not your dog, not your poo, yet somehow you're still left carrying it. And for many people, that's what happens in relationships. They carry other people's emotions, other people's expectations, other people's problems until they become exhausted, overwhelmed, and quietly resentful. Today, forensic psychologist, Dr. Nicole Harvey and I are exploring the psychology of people pleasing. We're getting to grips with why putting down other people's emotional baggage can feel so difficult, but when you do begin to do that, how it might just change your life. Hi, welcome along to Psychology Actually. I'm Dr. Marianne Trent, a qualified clinical psychologist, and I'm joined here today by Dr. Nicole Harvey, who's a forensic psychologist. Hi, Nicole.

Hello. Thanks for having me.

So we got chatting in the DMs, so to speak, because I was really interested in this idea of holding onto other people's emotional or physical stuff that maybe we just shouldn't or shouldn't in the way that we are. How did that come about as a realisation for you?

So I have been in private practise since 2021, about five years now. And I just see a lot of clients who hold onto other people's emotions or who feel like they ought to be responsible for other people's emotions. And so I wanted to create a resource that would help people to understand a bit better what was happening in their relationship dynamics. And well, obviously the dog poo bag analogy is not a resource really in itself, but it's an image and it's quite a clear one and it's one that my clients find very helpful. So that's where it started and then became something a bit bigger more recently where I discovered that actually I could develop a test around this and help people to understand what was happening for them, not just my clients, but anyone who wanted to ... Or maybe identified as a people pleaser.

Yeah. So the idea is that you suddenly realise that you're carrying bags of dog poo obviously are not yours and whether we can put that down or give that back

Yeah, pretty much. That's exactly it. So yeah, sometimes we are carrying things that don't belong to us and because of things that have happened maybe in our past, we feel very responsible for fixing things or absorbing emotions that really don't belong to us. But what we end up with is just a whole load of dog poo bags that don't belong to us that we could put down and some people just really struggle to know how to put them down. So that's what I wanted to help people with.

Okay. So this is a really powerful image is that we might also have almost pockets of dog poo bags that we maybe are not even aware that we're carrying. I had this one image of just carrying the one fresh dog poo bag, but actually it could be that we are carrying lots of other people's stuff

And it can build up. And the problem with it building up is that actually what happens in real time is that you start to become resentful because what you're seeing is other people getting all of their emotional needs met or even their physical needs. And meanwhile, you are there lumbered with all of this dog poop that you didn't ask for and you're not getting any of your needs met. And so that builds resentment, it builds anger. And I see that clients sometimes struggle to connect with that because they are so deep in this kind of people pleasing mode, but it is there. It is usually there. And once they do connect to it, they realise how much they have been carrying.

Okay. So if we've got someone listening or watching, what kind of early indicators or how could they tune in to knowing whether this is something that they've got going on for them or not?

So they could take my test. They could take the test on the website, which would give them a good indication, but really it's about, I guess, tapping into how they feel when they interact with people. So if they feel like other people try to make them feel guilty for things or they end up feeling guilty for things that they're not really sure belongs to them. As an example, your partner asks you to do something, you don't have capacity to do it and you say, "Sorry, I can't do that right now. Let me know if you need anything else." And they go off in a half. If you are someone who is then left feeling guilty for saying no and just because you didn't have the capacity to do whatever they wanted you to do in that moment and you feel the need to fix something, that's a pretty good indication that you might be in that zone of pupil pleasing.

That's a very small example, but probably an everyday kind of a one.

Yeah, absolutely. So it's using appropriate boundaries that are realistic for us, but then feeling bad about putting those boundaries in place and asserting yourself.

Yes, it's that, but then it's also who say yes when they mean no. So in that scenario, someone might say, "Yeah, sure, I can do it, " when they actually don't have the capacity to do it. And what then happens is that they start to feel resentful. They might not feel it in the moment, but it will be there. It will be building up. They start to feel resentful. They might start to feel angry towards the other person and sometimes that anger gets pushed down for so long that it ends up coming out in completely the wrong place. So at a server, at a restaurant for example, but it will be there and it will be building and rather than actually saying how you feel, so saying, "Actually, no, I can't do that right now. I'm really sorry." And leaving it at that and recognising that any emotion that comes from the other person is theirs to deal with, they would take that on as a personal responsibility to resolve.

Yeah. And I'm guessing this doesn't just crop up in intimate relationships. This can very easily crop up in workplaces as well, can't it? Especially if managers are just used to going, "Oh, I need this doing, do this, " but then don't necessarily help you to reprioritize what you've already got on your plate. Yeah, it's kind of potential for all of our relationships

Absolutely. And I think probably worse where there's authority in a relationship because if your manager comes along and says, "Oh, can you do this for me? " The impulse is to say, "Yeah, of course," because you want to show willing, you want to be seen as someone who does good work and presumably you want to eventually get a promotion or whatever. So yeah, you'd be likely to say yes, but actually have you assessed whether you can actually manage that task? And I think a lot of people don't take that pause to think, "Can I actually do this? And if no, how am I going to manage that? " And that part of managing it can be really difficult for some people, especially where they've gotten into this pattern of just saying yes and whether or not they mean it.

The power differential does muddy things, doesn't it? Especially in an organisational setting. But I think also in intimate relationships as well, especially if you've been burned by a partner before, then you might not think that you're allowed to say no or to assert yourself or to say, "No, it's your turn to wash up." Jog on with that, please.

Absolutely. And actually for some people it's not just a small worry about what happens if they say no, it's a really big fear. So if people have been in coercive controlling relationships or if they've grown up in a household where one person's emotions really were big and took precedence, they will feel fearful of what might happen if they say no or if they don't take responsibility for the other person's emotions. So that is something that I see a lot where people actually, not only do they not know how to say no, they're actually really scared of saying no. And like I say, that leads to big problems with them, with their emotions. Where do they take their emotion? Where does the anger go? Where does the resentment go? It often goes internally. So it often gets channelled inwards, which is not ideal either.

No. And actually a lot of the client work I do is with people have had complex trauma, kind of developmental trauma backgrounds and now they're adults. And it's interesting that actually the term anger feels like something that they often can't tap into or don't tap into and so internalise that anger and it becomes kind of anxiety or self-harm. And when we begin to just explore even the concept of anger, what anger is, anger isn't always rage. Anger isn't always violence. Anger can just be saying a gentle asserting of your boundaries. And when we begin to practise that, it can really be transformational.

Yeah, absolutely. I think part of this is also because I grew up being a people pleaser myself. So I've had a lot of therapy and it's still work in progress, but I have been a huge people pleaser myself and I noticed how I would lose myself in relationships. So it would become all about the other person. My whole life would become about the other person, which meant that I lost sight of who I was, what I wanted, what I needed. I couldn't ask for it. Yeah. So it all just became really toxic in a way and meant that I felt like I had no power really, not just in that relationship, but in general, I just felt very small as a person and that's not who I am, it's just who I had become. And thankfully through therapy, through understanding why I was like that and what was going on and how I could figure out what I wanted again and what I needed in a relationship felt so important and has really changed everything for me.

Yeah. I'm sorry to hear that you had those experiences. It isn't easy being a parent and I think I am a parent as well, but I've also been parented and it's that idea of sometimes enmeshment where a parent hasn't been able to really see that their child has their own wants, needs, and desires. And I would consider my job well done is if when my boys are older, they don't need to have me in their life, but they choose to have me in their life and that I can tolerate their making different choices. So I can tolerate them making ... Even now, I can tolerate them making unwise choices. Obviously I can't allow them to make unsafe choices. And so it's thinking about actually, I guess it's that capacity to consent issue, isn't it, that we would do so often in the work we do.

Yeah, I can allow you to make that choice even though I don't agree with it or it's not one I would make myself. And have that be okay that that person as being able to develop that autonomy. And I think it's when that hasn't been done in a robust way is when we see problems in adulthood. I wonder, Nicole, if you've got a little case study example we could kind of latch onto. Obviously it won't be a real client, but thinking about how this might have developed for somebody over time.

It might be that, for example, a father or father figure is very volatile, very angry, quite unpredictable. And what that does is that it causes fear in the mother so that the mother likely becomes a bit of a smaller person, a bit of a people pleaser herself, someone who sort of shrinks into the background as much as possible to keep safe. And that then happens to the children as well. So the children feel like if I'm small, if I'm unobtrusive, if I don't have needs, I'm easy to like, I'm easy to be around and no one pays attention to me. And actually that's what I want because I don't want to feel anyone's wrath. So that's often what I see in my practise is people who have come from those kind of backgrounds where one person's emotions really took up so much space in the house that there wasn't really space for anyone else's.

Yeah. And what we know is that the longer that continues, the more likely people are to have some of the presentation of complex trauma where they might be using self-soothing behaviours like alcohol, cigarettes, even that they're going to be more likely to have a higher body mass index, like a whole host of physical health complications as well. So the earlier we can get in with that and give that person the chance for their body not to keep the score so that they can have a different outcome for themselves and ultimately for their friends and family and their own children if they have them, the better really.

Yeah, absolutely. And what I've learned through my own experience and I guess those of my clients is that this is always a work in progress. So once you become that kind of people pleaser, that compliant surrenderer, if we're talking in schema mode therapy, you constantly have to think about your own capacity and what you're saying yes to and whether you should have paused for a minute or how you can roll back on things where you did say yes when actually you couldn't necessarily do something. So for me, it is a constant work in progress and I think probably for most people it's something that they have to question themselves over throughout the rest of their lives really.

Yeah. And I would say I'm a recovering people pleaser and I'm a recovering dog poo bagger. I did do the test and I think I gave you my percentage of what I was, but it's very much been a work in progress over these last few years I would say. If people are interested in taking the test, how can they do that and how long will it take them?

So they can do the test on the website, which is dogpoobagtest.com and it takes probably two minutes. So it's very quick, very easy. And this is not anything diagnostic. It's kind of a bit of fun, also a bit serious, but hopefully through the toolkit, if you decide to purchase that, the toolkit will give you some ideas of how to recover, how to go into recovery from being a people pleaser, being a dog poo bag holder.

Amazing. Because it's kind of that little bit of curiosity, isn't it, that maybe, oh, I hadn't quite realised what that was based on. And it's really lovely to chat with you. If people want to follow you on socials, where's the best place for them to do that, Nicole?

So it's @dogpoobagtest on Instagram. I can't say that there's a lot there, but you're welcome to have a look.

Perfect. Thank you. I will make sure that all of these details are tagged in the show notes, but sounds really, really interesting. And if anyone is enjoying this episode or recognising that they might be a dog poo bag holder, please do let us know in the comments. Thank you so much for your time, Nicole.

Thank you, Marianne.

You're welcome. Lovely chatting with you. Thank you so much for watching. If you are not already following or subscribing to the show, please do so. It really does help us to reach a wider audience. Have you recognised yourself as a bit of a dog poo holder? If you've done the test, come and drop your percentage score into the chat. I would love to know what your score is. If you are curious about the journeys people take to becoming qualified psychologists, I think you'll really love the book, The Clinical Psychologist Collective. If you'd like to grab your copy or check out other people's reviews from real readers, please do head to Amazon or there's a link in my Linktree bio. And if you are a big fan of Psychology Actually as a podcast and you'd like to secure early access or some of the unique episodes called Inner Work, please do consider coming on board, which you can do for just a few pounds a month and you can join via Patreon where you get a seven-day free trial, Apple podcast where you get a free free day trial and then directly via Captivate and YouTube too.

If you've enjoyed this episode, I think you will really enjoy the episode that I did with Dr. Rana on Let Them Theory and whether we are kind of interpreting it correctly all of the time. It's a brilliant episode, that will be linked in the show notes or it's on screen as well for you. And