Weston Kieschnick has been in the work for a long time—as a classroom teacher, coach, author, and speaker—and this conversation feels like two colleagues reconnecting around what actually drives performance.

We dig into Weston’s newest work and the idea that the gap between high performers and underachievers usually isn’t talent. It’s behavior—especially in the moments when adversity hits.

In this episode, we explore:

1. Why “hidden work” is the difference-maker when no one is watching
2. The four performance pitfalls that derail people at every level:
3. Blame
4. Excuses
5. Self-deception
6. Giving up
7. The flips that top performers lean into instead:
8. Ownership
9. Solutions
10. Truth
11. Grit
12. A Shark Tank green-room story with Barbara Corcoran that perfectly frames ownership vs. blame
13. Why feedback is the raw material for performance—and how self-deception blocks growth
14. Weston’s take on “growability” and why self-awareness matters more than skill level
15. How Weston is leaning into leadership right now: staying a learner, and learning from great leaders in every space

Key takeaway

When life gets hard, your default matters. You don’t rise to the level of your goals—you fall to the level of your patterns. This episode is a gut-check and a playbook.

Connect with Weston

Find Weston at WestonKieschnick.com and connect with him on social media to follow his work (and his “10-second truth” videos).

Thank you to our Amazing Sponsors

This episode is brought to you by HeyTutor, delivering high-impact, research-based tutoring that supports students while reducing leadership overwhelm. Connect with them at: https://heytutor.com/?utm_source=RTA&utm_medium=RTA&utm_campaign=RTA

This episode is also sponored by DigiCoach, helping leaders capture real-time instructional data, provide meaningful feedback, and build clarity through strong systems. Go to https://www.digicoach.com/ and tell them you heard about them here on the Leaning into Leadership podcast for special partner pricing.

All right, everybody, welcome into the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. This is episode 258. Let me start with a simple question. When the pressure hits, when the critiques come, when the plan falls apart, when you're tired, when you're stretched thin, what is it that you devolve to? Today's conversation is all about what separates high performers from underachievers. And spoiler alert, rarely.

is it talent, it's behavior, it's the hidden work that no one applauds, the hidden work that nobody posts about, that nobody sees, but that actually is what moves the needle and separates high achievers from underperformers. And my guest on the show today is Weston Kieschnick, a teacher, coach, author, speaker.

and someone who I've had the chance to work with across multiple seasons of my leadership journey. Now, Weston has a brand new book and a framework that leaders in education and beyond are going to recognize immediately because it names what we see every single day. Now, before we jump in, I want to take a quick second for our two partners who support this show week in and week out. This episode is brought to you by Digicoach.

Now, if you're a school or district leader who is trying to strengthen instruction, give meaningful feedback, and actually see patterns across your classrooms, Digicoach makes that work simpler and more actionable. You can capture walkthrough notes quickly, stay aligned to your look-fors, and turn observations into feedback that helps your teachers grow. If you're ready to bring more clarity and consistency to walkthroughs and your coaching conversations,

make sure that you check out Digicoach at digicoach.com. And while you're there, make sure you let them know that you heard about Digicoach here on the Leaning Into Leadership podcast for special partner pricing. Once again, that's digicoach.com. Now today's episode is also sponsored by HeyTutor, a provider of customized evidence-based high dosage math and ELA tutoring for K-12 school districts across the country.

HeyTutor offers in-person tutoring and online options aligned to state standards, and their model has earned Stanford's National Student Support Association badge. They do the recruiting, the training, the hiring, and manage tutors as HeyTutor employees, so districts are not stuck with trying to staff and coordinate the program on their own. And with their adaptive curriculum and accessible dashboard, schools can track progress and results.

along the way. If you're looking to accelerate learning with real support, HeyTutor is absolutely worth a look. Make sure you hit the link down in the show notes or go to heytutor.com. All right, let's get into it. My guest again today is Weston Kieschnick and we are talking about the hidden work of performance. The four pitfalls that keep people stuck and the four shifts that leaders can use and teams can use to stay in the work and keep

getting better.

Welcome back into the show. Joining me today is Weston Kieschnick. And I gotta say this before I even welcome Weston into the show. This is somebody I've known for a long time. had the great opportunity to work with him when I was a high school principal. He was contracted with our district to support us on a bunch of things when I was a superintendent. I contracted with him to do some work to support that district. Now,

we, I guess, share a space and have known each other for a long time. So really excited about this conversation. Weston, thanks for joining me here on Leaning into Leadership.

Yeah, Darren, thanks, man. Thanks for having me. Yeah, we were a long way in a long time from Rock Springs. It seems like yesterday, but it was a while ago. Yeah, that was that was good stuff. Good work. Yeah, yeah. Longer, longer ago than I'd like to admit.

Yeah, yeah, quite some time ago.

Yeah, yeah, that's okay though, but definitely, yeah, we have that shared history and other shared history too. So most people are gonna know who you are. I mean, we put some stuff in the lead in about, you know, kind of your bio and that kind of thing, but maybe just give us this little snippet of who you are and really what you're truly about, the work that you focus on.

Yeah, so I'm at my heart, not my core. I am a teacher. The joke that I make all the time is like, I am. People wanna know your bio and it's like, okay, I'm a school teacher. I love teaching, I write books on teaching, I host a podcast on teaching. I also married a teacher, right? Which means my kids are gonna grow up to be resentful. They're gonna hate my profession, I'm sure. But we're gonna still keep fighting the good fight.

Hahaha

My only aspiration when I got into the field of education was I wanted to teach high school social studies and I wanted to coach football. And there's only one of those things that I still get to do, which is coach football. I was in the weight room this morning at 6.30 in the morning with 85 high school boys. That's immovable for me. I love that part. But I'm also a believer in vocation and the things that we're called to do.

And for as much as I want to be in the classroom and enjoyed being there for the, you know, 14 or 15 years that I was in it, I get called into this space. And now I get this really cool opportunity to work with kids and teachers and educational leaders and leaders in the corporate space. And it's been an awesome opportunity for me to sort of have a window into exactly what our conversation is today, which is like,

Hey, what's the difference between top performers and underachievers? we, you know, you're in the same space I am. Like we get to be around both all the time. We see top performers and we see people who aren't achieving up to their potential. And I've been obsessed with back since I was in high school, it's a story I tell on my keynote. Like I've been obsessed with like, okay, if all these things are equal, right? If talent is equal, if background is equal, if upbringing is equal.

and you've got one person who succeeds at an astronomical pace and another one who under achieves, what is it? What's the difference? And so that was really the genesis for the work that we're gonna talk about today.

Yeah, absolutely. I think it goes back to something you and I were talking about before we hit the record button. Obviously both of us in this professional development space, if that's what you want to use as the term for it, we both get the question all the time, know, hey, you know, I'd love to do what you do. you know, what is something, you know, that a person could do to go do that? And I don't want to chase that. The pieces that we were talking about are the things that people don't see. And I know

Yeah.

That doesn't directly connect to your new book, The Hidden Work, we're gonna get to that in a little bit, but there is a lot of hidden work in what we do. And maybe this is a good time to unearth that. I'm sure we have some people listening who are like, man, I saw Wes speak one time, or Darren, I've heard you speak. What goes into that work, the dedication, the time, the grind?

yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I won't name it. I'll let you name it. Talk a little bit about that.

Well, I'm curious to hear your take on this too, right? So, you you talked about all the hidden work and the behind the scenes stuff and we'll scratch at the surface of that. You know, you're right, you and I get this question all the time. Hey, I wanna do what you do. And for me, I'm curious about your take on this, because we haven't talked about this. For me, I feel like that's always a red flag, because I have the benefit of knowing you.

in your previous life as a principal, as a superintendent. And I'm just like, man, this guy was a hell of a principal. He was a hell of a superintendent. And I get the sense it was just like you were kind of in the same space I was where it was just like, okay, like I've done this work for a really long time. And I'm sort of like being pulled in this direction, as opposed to like, you're the catalyst and you're like, try to push yourself out of one and into the other. And so for me, like,

Whenever I get asked this question of like, I want to do what you do. My response a lot of the times is like, hey, like you want, if you are a teacher or a principal or a superintendent or you work in the corporate space somewhere, like you want to love that work so much and be so good at it that someone has to essentially drag you kicking and screaming from that. And you have to go fulfill this other vocation. Cause that's what, that's what it was for me in the teaching space. I wanted to be in the classroom and I had a principal who told me like, Hey,

you need to go out there and do more of this work. And I was just like, you know, like there's part of that's really flattering. And then there's part of that that's just like, damn it. but I wanna do this, I wanna play in my classroom and I wanna work with, you know, these, you know, 120 kids who roll through here every day. Like, that's what I want. Like, was it the same for you or like, I don't know. I'm, okay.

Right.

Yes and no.

Yeah, no, no, I appreciate that question. And by the way, folks, this is the danger of having another podcaster on your podcast, they flip the microphone around on you. No, that's okay. No, I really appreciate the question. And you're making me reflect a little bit. And I think back. And I've said this, dozens and dozens and dozens of times, probably even more than that. My favorite job of all time was high school principal. I, I still identify as a recovering high school principal. I loved that job.

Yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry.

So very much. I loved being at Rock Springs High School. I loved going in every day. I loved the people. I loved my kids. Heck, I was my daughter's high school principal, right? I chased the superintendent role because I thought it would give me an opportunity to coach more leaders, to grow more leaders, because I fell in love with that when I worked with a leadership coach. Once I kind of figured out how to be a principal and not just be a firefighter, I fell in love with coaching

my APs, my aspiring leaders, my department lead, those kinds of things. Newsflash, superintendent, you don't have time for that work. You really don't. when I was in West Grand, the other superintendent in the county in East Grand, Frank and I had a conversation several years in, and we were doing some really cool work in the two districts together. And

I remember telling Frank over a beer and like, man, just, you know, I really love this and I really love this and I really love this the most. And he said, Darren, everything you just described is principal work. That's what you love. You know, did I enjoy driving down to Denver to go to the Capitol building to talk to legislators? No, I did not care for that. Frank loved it. Frank was awesome. He was a wonderful superintendent. So for me, I guess it was a little bit split and

Yeah. Yeah.

Now.

I reached a point, you know, the first edition of Road to Awesome was out. I was starting to do a little bit of leadership coaching when I made the decision to jump. And I think a big part of it was either I go back to being a high school principal or I chase this. you know, my wife and I had an amazing conversation. you know, one of the things that she said was, if you go back to being a high school principal.

Yeah.

I cannot guarantee that it's going to be what it was for you in Rock Springs. And I don't know.

It's that old adage, like, you can't go home again, right? Like, yeah, yeah.

right. Yeah. Yeah. And so for me, that's kind of, that's kind of where it was. mean, it was still a little bit of a kicking and screaming, but also it was a running into man. I, this is what I want to impact as many leaders as I possibly can. So that's kind of, that's kind of how it worked for me.

And that's the truth. you're talking about, that's a perfect link to the question you asked earlier, right? Like you're so passionate about it. Like it's a thing I tell people all the time. okay, like if you want to do work like this, you have to be so passionate about the work and about the message that that passion will draw you away from your home and away from your family.

and onto a plane where you travel across the country and endure delayed flights. And we talked about this, right? And you get it, you get, like you land at three o'clock in the morning, you get to your hotel at four and you've got a tech check at some conference center at 7.30 in the morning. Like you got to, like you got to burn and be so passionate about this work that you'll endure all of that for the hour and 10 or hour and 15 that you might have as a speaker in front of a large group.

And yeah.

or the six hours that you have coaching a group of teachers or coaching a group of leaders or an individual leader. all of those things, like that passion has to be so strong that it nullifies all of those things and the discomfort all of those things create. And if that's the case, yeah, go do it. Go do it. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, certainly. You you mentioned the airplane. I mean, I know there are, you know, I hear this one all the time, too. You know, boy, you must have all kinds of points and miles. And yeah, I mean, I, I probably earned Southwest companion for my wife until the end of time, you know, but that doesn't mean that, you know, I don't end up with, like you said, you know, those, those flights that you get in at three in the morning and, and, and the piece you left out was you have to be back at the airport at noon for your flight out.

No doubt.

Yeah.

to go to the next place, right? But anyway, we don't want to continue to lament, lament our work, but I think it ties into really well with what you said kind of at that beginning, you know, what is it that separates the high performer from the low performer in what you and I do, we get to see both like you said, and I, I'm curious your take on this too. And then let's lead into that, but something I've discovered in the now almost five years I've been doing

time.

this full time is I have learned so much more about leadership. Even though, yes, I am the leadership expert, I'm the coach, I'm the supporter, but man, I learned so much from this group over here that I share with this group or that I share through all the content that I build. One, have you discovered that? Like, wow, I've learned so much more about

that work by being out there and then two, what are you seeing? mean, what are those things that separate the high performance from the

I think it's the best part, Darren, think it's the best part of our job. I think if it's not the best, it's one of the best. Just being able, and I tell people all the time, like, it's really hurtful for me when I hear people, you know, sort of like bash education in the education space. Because nine times out of 10, when I hear that from people, they're people who aren't in our profession. And I would encourage people, like, educators out there, please, for the love, like, stop.

letting people who don't know our profession tell us about it as though they know. Because I say all the time, like, I wish I could take people, put them in my back pocket and travel around because in the nooks and crannies of this country, I see teachers and leaders and kids doing incredible things, especially in our nation's schools under, in a lot of cases, nearly impossible circumstances, right? And the learning that I get to glean from that is awesome.

It's again, I think it's it's my favorite part of the work that we get to do is being immersed in that and learning from so many people and it's been and it's been really cool because as this work has started to expand over time, like that learning just doesn't come from the kids I work with or the teachers I work with or principals or superintendents. Like now it's coming from people in the corporate space. Now it's coming like I get to talk to so many cool people like.

Corporate leaders, there's a story I tell in the book about a conversation I had with Barbara Corcoran from Shark Tank. I've gotten to speak to so many current and former NFL players, members of SEAL Team Six and the Navy SEALs, and it's just like, you want to talk about cowboy kicking a door open in your brain for learning more and more and more about what great leadership takes at every level. It's been remarkable.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. And that's, I would say the same thing with the podcast too. So just, you know, I don't know which episode this will be probably somewhere around episode two 60. I mean, in the previous 250 nine, mean, just some of the conversations with people just, holy cow. mean, it just keeps my bucket filled. mean, it, just, I continue to learn and learn and learn. And I've talked about it here on the show a few times. The book I'm working on now.

Yeah.

is a focus on leadership teams and what separates actually high performing leadership teams from not high performing leadership teams. 99 % of that is not gonna come from here's what Darren thinks. It's from here's what Darren has seen and learned and read and observed and that type of thing, right? It's incredible what we get to learn.

Yeah, you said something there and I don't know about you. And this is what I want people to understand too. I won't write a book, I won't go out and do a keynote if this is just something that I think. It has to have been in my head and on my heart so long. My process is such that something will worm its way into my brain. It'll worm its way into my brain as an idea. And then the first thing I wanna do, and typically that's as a result of what I've seen.

what I'm seeing and what I'm hearing from just like instance after instance after instance. And then what happens is like, cause I'll tell you this, Darren, like I don't know about you. Like I don't, I said after I wrote my first book that that was my last book. Like it's a, people, people really romanticize the idea of book writing. They have this like, like Ernest Hemingway notion of like, you sit down and the words flow from you. People forget that guy drank himself to death, right? And so like for me, my thought is always like,

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, like an idea has warmed its way into my brain. I've seen this over and over and over. And so my next thought is like, okay, I don't want to have to write a book on this. Let me prove it wrong. Let me prove this wrong. And so I'll spend a year trying to prove this wrong over and over and over. And the minute that I can't prove it wrong, and it won't leave, like it just is, it continues to noodle there in my brain. Then it's like, okay, I have to get this out.

And so then I'll start to talk about it and I'll start to write about it. And that's how any book or keynote that I've ever done comes to fruition. But all that to say, like, if I'm taking the time to write about it and if I'm taking the time to speak about it, it's not just because it's something I think. I'm so confident that I know it to be true. I have to share it because I think it'll help people.

Well, and it sounds like number one, agree with you 100%. And yeah, I mean, even just like the first edition of Road to Awesome, I still I'm probably on my third computer since then, but somewhere in the deep, deep catacombs of my Google Drive are start stop versions of that book that are absolute garbage. But I mean, garbage, because I thought, oh, I have to have this perfect formula or whatever it was, right? Yeah, there's so much

Yeah.

so much work that goes into that and yeah, I'm kind of kicking and screaming dragging myself into this this this next book. But but anyway, so so let's let's let's get to let's get to that that new book, the hidden work and really just kind of the the big outpouring the big number one thing you want people to say, wow. Okay. So in other words, that thing that crawled into your brain, it wouldn't go away.

Yeah. Yeah. So the thing that crawled in my brain and wouldn't go away was I seeing people from all walks of life, right? Like equal levels of talent. They come from the same areas, the same circumstances. And it's just like, okay, when all things are equal, who is it that achieves at a high level where somebody who comes from nearly identical circumstances or in some cases better circumstances like underachieves?

What was that?

And what I kept finding over and over and over was that you could distill the behavior patterns of top performers and under achievers down to essentially four behavior patterns. And the ability of top performers to avoid these four behavior patterns and the tendency for low performers to default to these sort of like performance pitfalls, right? And they're really, really simple.

It has nothing to do with talent. There's nothing that we have to buy. There's nothing that we have to have. It has everything to do with avoiding these four things and it is blame, excuses, self-deception, and the propensity to give up. That's it. That's literally all there is. Like, when adversity strikes, if you can avoid blame and avoid excuses and not engage in the self-deception that sometimes happens with people, which is essentially the lies that we tell ourselves,

And you can avoid the the tendency to just give up like that will propel you forward and again Are these are these things gonna happen? Of course, right this I say this after my keynotes all the time because we spent an hour and ten talking about this and then I tell everyone in the room like hey Here's what's gonna happen. You're gonna go home and sometime in the next 30 years 36 or 48 hours like you're gonna default to one of these behaviors Because it's human nature. All right, it's it's primal. It's primal to want to

blame, make excuses, engage in self-deception and give up. Why? Because they're self-defense mechanisms. They shield us from that primal desire to what it was back in the caveman era. The primal desire was to avoid death. So in order to avoid death, I'll default to these things. Now the desire is to avoid shame. Shame within the communities that we live in and we work in.

And so that's the reason why people default to these behaviors. And our ability to sort of like, instead of blame, excuse, self-deception, and give up, it's like, okay, to what degree can we demonstrate ownership, be solution-focused, be really truthful, honest with ourselves and others, and display grit over and over and over. And if we can do that, the ceiling elevates dramatically over and over. And this is not just true.

This is not just true for our kids. It's not just true for teachers and leaders. These are conversations, like I've said, that I've had with business leaders. Some of the most fascinating conversations I had were, this guy, Matt Bissonnette, who's a member of SEAL Team Six. He wrote the book, No Easy Day. He's got a new book coming out called No Easy Way. It's incredible. Everyone should go get it. Matt's a really interesting guy.

He was actually on the mission to capture Okilusama bin Laden, right? He's the second guy up the stairs when they put the bullet in bin Laden, right? He's like an incredible human Listen to Sean Ryan's podcast. He details the whole thing. It's remarkable But like talking to people like him is just like This is this is not just true like at a micro level for us in the education space like it's true in the macro and it applies across

business, athletics, like special forces. And that, and that I think makes it more remarkable.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's really important that not only do you really name these four pitfalls, but then, hey, these are the four things that you really need to lean into in order to kind of avoid that. Now, obviously, you mentioned the SEAL Team Six example. Maybe give us one other story or example that's not necessarily going to cross all four, but just one of your favorite.

pieces in there that connects to one of these that can be a real hook for me.

Yeah, yes. Yeah, so one my favorites that I talk about in the book is, again, I'm sure you've experienced this, right? There's times where we go out and keynote at conferences and it's a rare pleasure sometimes when we get to overlap with other keynoters at the same conference. And it just so happened I was speaking at a conference, I think I was doing panel at a conference where Barbara Corcoran, who was one of the sharks from Shark Tank.

was also either speaking or doing panel work or something. And I remember Darren, we're sitting in the green room and we're just kind of chatting. Like she could not have been a nicer person. And Darren, I'm sitting there and honest to God, I'm sitting there just like, Kieschnick, for the love, like don't ask her about Shark Tank. Everyone asks her about Shark Tank. Dude, don't ask her about Shark Tank. And then like 90 seconds go by and I was like, screw it. I'm gonna ask her about Shark Tank. Because I'm super like...

Yeah.

First of all, thought Shark Tank was a, did you ever watch Shark Tank? Yeah, I thought it was awesome. I thought it was a great show. The thing that I was most interested in is like a fan of Shark Tank. I was always interested in the people who came in and tried to pitch to the Sharks and didn't get a deal, but then they still go on. Like they're able to leave what is a very public humiliation in some cases, and they're able to leave that room and go on to build really, really successful businesses.

Yeah. yeah. yeah.

I think the most well-known example of this is the guy who invented the Ring Doorbell. So for those who don't know, the guy who invented the Ring Doorbell went onto Shark Tank, he pitched that idea, he got four no's from all four sharks, and then he went on to grow that company, sold it to Amazon for a billion dollars. So I'm sitting there with Barbara and I was just like, hey, I'm really curious. What's the difference between entrepreneurs who come on Shark Tank

and they don't get a deal and they go on to create really successful businesses versus the ones who come onto Shark Tank don't get a deal and we never hear from them again. And I thought her answer was really telling. She said, the difference between these two is the folks who come onto Shark Tank, they don't get a deal and they come, they go on to create really successful businesses. After they're done with their experience on Shark Tank, they go and they talk to the producers, right? And as they're talking to the producers, she said, like the people who eventually find success,

When they're having those conversations with the producers, they never blame the Sharks for why they didn't get a deal. She's like, you know who they blame? Themselves. They're like, my pitch wasn't clear enough. I didn't do enough prep. I didn't do a good enough job of this, this, or this. And so that's a prime example of sort of like one of those behavior pitfalls of blame. And it's like, hey, high performers don't default to blame, they default to ownership. And in that moment, it is

really easy to go stand in front of a producer when the cameras are off and say like, oh man, like, oh, they didn't give me enough time or Mark Cuban is just a dick or like whatever it is, right? But instead they're like, nope, it's not about them. It's about me, me, me. And that's, and that's the interesting thing about blame versus ownership. whereas blame looks around ownership looks in the mirror and this is a common behavior pattern of high performers at every level. It's one of my favorite examples that's in the.

Yeah.

I think it's fantastic. And what it really does, I mean, you take you take each of the four opposing positions there, you know, or actions, if you will. And that is that is the juxtaposition it is, is it is it outward facing? Or is it looking back at me? I really thought where you were going to go with the Barbara Corcoran story, honestly, was that they didn't give up. But that's also a piece that's there, right? You know, they didn't, they didn't just go.

You know, aw man, we didn't make it on Shark Tank, so I guess our idea sucks. No, just because you heard no there doesn't mean you don't keep going. So yeah, it's all about that how you turn it back to yourself, which is a self-leadership piece.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Yes. Correct. Yeah. And that and all of that is in the sauce. Right. Because the minute like the minute you blame right like you outsource every part of that agency and now all of a sudden successor failure becomes external. And when people feel like successor failure is external right they lack ownership and agency over it like that it leads to quitting and giving up. But all of a sudden like

when you're more introspective and you're willing to look in the mirror and look inside and say like, I could have done this, this, and this. Hey, guess what? All of those things are fixable. And because all of those things are fixable, that will propel you forward as opposed to just like bog you down in the mud of blame. coaches will tell you this about athletes, right? There's another great, like Mike Tomlin gave a really good interview one time where he was just talking about like they had lost a game and.

Mike Tomlin's mother lives at his house with him. so Mike had, they had lost the game. He had gone home and his mom was just like, those officials and like was talking about the refs. And Tomlin was just like, no, like this, okay, that might be true. And like, this is on us. We could have done this, this, this, and this. And again, it's true in every walk of life, every walk of life. Like people, know, I had a woman.

I just gave this keynote last week and I had a woman afterwards who came up to me and she grabbed me by the elbow and she said it in jest but you could tell she was serious. She was like, will you talk to my husband? He does all of these. We are struggling in our marriage right now. And I'm just like, oh my God, no, I will not talk to your husband. the point is well served. It's just like as a parent, as a spouse, as a leader, as a student, as a coach, as an athlete, like.

Ha ha ha!

Yeah.

This, has universal application. Yeah.

Absolutely. Yes. And what you're saying is you're not throwing out the Keishnet counseling services, you know, Matt anytime soon. Yeah, there you go. That's hilarious right there. Yeah, no, that's that's excellent stuff. I was telling you before we hit record, the book will be here. I believe it'll be here tomorrow. I can't wait to dive into this one because this isn't

God, no, my wife is about to in the door. Yeah, my wife's about to burst in the door and be like, no, we should not be counseling anyone on marriage. She has a lot going, but she is still teaching me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, thanks.

Like you said, this isn't just a book for educators. This is a book for people in, whether you're an educator, you're in the business space, you're a husband, you're a wife, you're a coach, whatever role you might have, just simply to get down to the core of what separates those who succeed, those who perform at a high level versus those that tend to underachieve. And I love that you've percolated it down to those.

those four things. Just really quick, recap that one more time for people in case they were driving and they're like, God, I gotta write this down. Just what are the four pitfalls? What are the four things that we flip and bring it back on ourselves?

Yeah, so the four pitfalls are really simple. It is blame, excuses, self-deception, and the propensity to give up. And instead of blame, it has to be about ownership. Instead of excuses, it's got to be about solutions. Instead of self-deception, we got to be about truth and being honest with ourselves and being honest about the voices that we hear around us and what's coming into our heads that's true and what's not true. And then last but not least, instead of giving up, it's got to be about grit. But I want to backtrack to this one, right? So like...

Let's backtrack for a second to sort of like the self-deception piece. Self-deception is really interesting. We are excellent at constructing stories to protect identity. And when that happens, what the result is often is that like, well, success is because of me and then failure is because of all of these other circumstances. And again, is like self-deception

blocks feedback. like feedback is the raw material for performance. Like, and that's true in every category. You know this as a person who goes out and coaches leaders all the time. Like if they're unable or unwilling to receive feedback, feedback is the raw material for performance. And if that's the case, like you can't grow. When I work coaching teachers all the time,

One of the things I say, because the question I get all the time from principals and superintendents is like, okay, we need to identify a cohort of teachers. Like who should we do? Like, is it the people who are most struggling? And my answer is forever no. Like that's not who you identify. The only thing that matters is self-awareness and who's growable, right? Like I don't care if they're your best teacher. I don't care if they're like one of your most struggling teachers. Like if they lack self-awareness and they're unwilling to grow,

then there's nothing you or I can do about that because they've engaged in a self-deception. There's a lie that they're telling themselves and because they're telling themselves this lie, they're not susceptible to feedback and they're not gonna grow. So like all I care about is like who's growable. That's the only thing that matters. And self-deception is really hard and it's rampant in our space right now, not just in the education space. Like this is rampant in the athletic space right now. Anyone who's coaching high school athletics will tell you this like,

There's a lie that kids are telling themselves that they're being told by a lot of performance coaches that they're hiring. And the lie is that they are division one athlete, right? They are a power for division one athlete. It's a lie that they are telling themselves and it's a lie that they're being told by people that they pay money to go train with. And the fact of the matter is like that lie blocks any feedback that they need to receive to be successful. Cause what some of these kids need to hear is like, Hey,

You may not be a power forward division one athlete, but you know what you are? Like you are a really, really good division two athlete. And there's a lot of opportunity for success for you in that space. but that's, it's not a thing that people are open to right now, which is bizarre. And I think it's especially for a lot of young athletes. it's had disastrous consequences. Look at, I think I checked the other day.

fourteen hundred powerful athletes in college football just entered the college football like the just entered the portal some of those guys have entered that portal without an understanding that hey you just ended your career because you you are telling yourself this lie that maybe other people have told you that you know you're at this level but you should be at this level and you're going to enter the portal and all of a sudden the truth is going to punch you right in the face but you're not and now you're not going to have a place to go and that's and that's devastating like

Yeah. Yeah.

For me as a person who wants to advocate for kids and coaches, like that's devastating. It's devastating.

It really is. you know, the this is this is off the beaten path, but that's fine. And the the the NIL era has created so so very much of that. I read that just the other day, the the kid that's transferring to to Texas Tech is going to make more in his NIL deal next year than Chaudhry Sanders entire rookie contract.

It's wild. Like, I...

It's insane, right? Yeah. Yeah. And it's definitely filtered down to our high school athletes. had Keith Wall, the Valor Christian AD on the show here. know, yeah, yeah. And, you know, that's something that, you know, Keith talked about a lot, just seeing that impact and how it's even filtering down even to the junior high school level and the club sports. And we could chase that for hours and hours, but it is, it's very much that self-deception.

where I coach.

It's scary. Yeah, and it's really scary. And we can get off this topic, but I worry about those kids. think about myself. I played college football. I think to myself, man, if somebody had given me half a million, a million, $2 million as a 18, 19-year-old kid, the disaster that that would have been. And it's just like...

man, just, I hope that so many of these kids have really good parents and really good influences and people who can speak truth into their lives and, cause otherwise, like the consequences are big. Yeah.

Absolutely. With without question, man, our time has absolutely flown by it's been such an incredible conversation. No, you're totally fine. So let's let's let's jump to the last question that I asked everybody here on the show. This is the leaning into leadership podcast. So, Wes, how are you leaning into leadership right now?

I'm sorry, David. Yeah.

And forgive me if I'm not answering this question the way that you want it answered, but like, how am I leaning into leadership? Like it links back to the conversation that we had earlier. I am like, I am leaning into learning from all of the incredible people that I get to encounter, right? Like the head coach at the school that I coach, like Mike Sanford is an incredible guy, incredible coach. Like he's coached everywhere and it's just like, okay.

what can I learn from that guy? When I'm on the road and I'm talking to people, it's just like, okay, what can I learn from this person? I am leaning into people who have leadership expertise and leadership expertise or leadership experience that I have not yet or may not ever be able to get to try to beg, borrow and steal and learn as much as humanly possible. And I think it's a good message for every leader in every field right now.

The world has plenty of experts. Like it needs more learners at the moment. And so like I'm committing myself to being in the camp of learner to then try to share as much of that as I can and then continue to grow and learn. Because I think if we all settle into that space, the world's better for it.

Outstanding man. love that answer so very much. Gosh, this has been so much fun. Certainly people are if they're not already following you if they you know haven't yet got a copy of the book, they're going to want to get in touch with you and follow your work that type of stuff. What's the best way for them to to check out of check all that workout?

Yeah, so you can find me at WestonKieschnick.com. That's my website, obviously. You can find me on all the social medias. Find me on TikTok, Instagram, and Twitter, X, and Facebook. Everything. I'm out there. I'm on it. Here's the good news. If you follow me on one of those things, then chances are you're seeing all of it. So don't feel the need to follow me on all of those. Also, I just want to give a shout out and a thanks to the so many

crazy number of people who have popped in and listened to my 10 second truth videos. The response to that has been awesome. Super grateful for everyone just taking 10 to sometimes 15 or 16 seconds of your day. Yes, I see your comments. I know some of them are longer than 10 seconds. Sorry, get bent. Like keep that comment to yourself. Like I'm doing my best to keep them at 10 seconds. Whatever. Like if you don't want to watch something for 14 or 15 seconds, you have the option to keep scrolling. You don't have to leave it.

that is true.

I love that so very much. That's that is that is really awesome stuff. Yeah, absolutely. That the 10 second truths are so cool. Yeah, yeah. No, that's all good. That's all good. I love that stuff so very much. So, man, Wes, and this has been so much fun. I'm so glad we had an opportunity to catch up and to sit down and actually hit the record button and share this with everybody. So thanks so much for joining me here on Leaning into Leadership.

Sorry, that was just my little soap box. Yeah, yeah, no, I appreciate it.

Yeah, right back at you brother. Thanks for having me on.

All right, as always, just an incredible conversation. I really am grateful that Weston set aside some time and came and spent a little bit time with us here on the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. Such incredible insight. And honestly, I just love those types of conversations where it's just, let's talk about leadership. Let's talk about performance. Nothing canned, nothing scripted, just a very or-

organic, authentic conversation. Honestly, between two people who've known each other for quite some time. It was wonderful to catch up to Weston, and I'm so glad that we had the opportunity to share that conversation with you here on the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. And now, it's time for a pep talk. My pep talk for this week simply goes back to what we just listened to here in this episode of the podcast. I love how Weston talks about those four pitfalls, that those who tend to underperform

tend to fall to blame or to making excuses or fall into self-deception or they just simply give up. Now, he also gave us some remedies, some action steps that we can take to keep us from falling into those pitfalls. Now, if you're someone who falls into any of those four or you work with some people who maybe fall into one or more of those four,

make sure you go and grab a copy of The Hidden Work. I think it's a fantastic book. I have it right here in my hand. Those of you on YouTube, you're seeing a copy of the book. Very, very, very quick read, but you know what? It's got some great resources in here. And so my challenge for you in the pep talk is if you're working with somebody who falls into one of those four traps, take a look at what are some of the options or even just what Weston talked about here on the podcast.

and go and lean into a coaching conversation with that individual to help them move out of being stuck in those pitfalls. All right, folks, that's what I have for you this week. Thank you so much for joining me here on the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. As always, get out there and have a road to awesome week.