Generous living is one of the most God-like ways to live. However, the lifestyle extends far beyond our bank accounts. This week Tim MacDonald explains how and why to pursue a generous life.

Click the links below for more resources from Tim.

https://www.ncfgiving.com/

https://generousgiving.org/

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Host

You're listening to the No Gray Areas podcast with Patrick McCullough. Today's guest is Tim McDonald, president of National Christian Foundation Southwest. Tim shows us how we can live generously, even when we feel like we have nothing left to give.

Host

Let's dove in.

Patrick McCalla

Tim McDonald, welcome to No Gray Areas. It's so good having you on our podcast. We joke about it, but we just met I think a couple weeks ago, right?

Tim MacDonald

We did. Patrick. Yes.

Patrick McCalla

And the funny thing was, for about a year now, I kept having these meetings like every three weeks I had to have a meeting with someone that I would hear. Do you know Tim McDonald? You really need to meet Tim McDonald.

Patrick McCalla

And so we finally met a few weeks ago and we were just a few minutes into our conversation and I was immediately going, I know why everybody said that, so I connected with you right away, but let's get a little bit of back or we can talk about generous living, generous giving today, but a little background on

Patrick McCalla

you. So you're from what part of the country?

Tim MacDonald

Yeah. So I grew up in the Boston area. Okay. Yeah. Huge, stupid. Yeah. Say stupid before huge Red Sox fan. You are dumb Celtics Bruins Patriots really didn't exist when I was there I we had the team but yeah didn't really matter.

Tim MacDonald

Today it's a different story.

Patrick McCalla

Now I had one of my friends in high school. His dad was an annoying Celtics fan. I was from Montana. Yeah. And I man, because of that, I couldn't stand the Celtics. But you know how it often is.

Patrick McCalla

I look back on that era in the eighties. Yeah. You know what's bird McHale of that was wow you guys had a team.

Tim MacDonald

So for my 33rd birthday, yeah. My wife did a surprise birthday party for me. She took down all the artwork, everything in the house, replaced it all with photos or jerseys of Larry Bird.

Patrick McCalla

So in the whole house, yes. So. So it was that was.

Tim MacDonald

I could have been your obnoxious cousin.

Patrick McCalla

Yes. Which. Yeah.

Patrick McCalla

Well, then I went to Bible School in downtown Chicago and all the teams that would play the Chicago Bulls would come down there or the pre-draft camp. They would be at that school that I went to at the gymnasium, and I met Larry Bird in person there.

Patrick McCalla

And that was that was again, I didn't looking back now, I would have probably soaked that up a little bit more. Now, at that time, I'm just like Larry Bird. He's the annoying guy that I didn't like his team.

Patrick McCalla

But now great respect.

Patrick McCalla

So quick. Yeah silly story. Yeah.

Tim MacDonald

So friend of mine, she worked for USA Basketball and she was a part of the first teams that were the dream team. And so we go to a Nuggets game. I go with her and my wife and some other friends, and after the game she introduce us to Larry and Robert Parrish and Kevin McHale.

Tim MacDonald

So we were at on the side of the court meeting them, right?

Patrick McCalla

Yeah.

Tim MacDonald

I can't speak, Patrick. I just. I'm dumb. I just. I can't speak. In fact, my eyes have welled up with tears. My wife looks at me, and she's sort of tapping me on the shoulder, and I'm like, I'm done, honey, I can't talk to you.

Tim MacDonald

This is just this. I know. Now I can die. Yeah. And go to heaven. Oh, God.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah.

Patrick McCalla

That. That was a team.

Tim MacDonald

That was hilarious.

Patrick McCalla

Had them and you actually had some great ones after that too. But that that was an era that's unforgettable for sure. So so what about some of your work life then? What have you done in your career?

Tim MacDonald

A number of different things done, some fundraising development with a couple of organizations, one some might have heard of Focus on the Family worked with them for a little while. Really. My my work life got started working with Pepsi-Cola.

Tim MacDonald

And so in high school and through college was a truck driver for Pepsi. So I would sling soda and make that happen and had a ball.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah. Yeah.

Tim MacDonald

And then gotten some real estate development and did some other things and okay, that led me to where we are today.

Patrick McCalla

So maybe you can solve this for for everybody. Is it soda, cola or pop?

Tim MacDonald

What is it? So it's I don't care what anybody else says, right? It's soda. Okay? That's that's what it has to go by. And anyone who says different is wrong.

Patrick McCalla

That's so.

Tim MacDonald

And by the way, Pepsi and Coke. Yeah, it's a stupid fan of Pepsi. And I can smell the difference in that. Just it's ridiculous.

Patrick McCalla

I was a Coke fan for most of my life, and it was the last couple of years because my son in law's dad just loves Pepsi. So we started having it more. We come over. I've turned into a Pepsi fan, so I get it a little bit.

Tim MacDonald

But I like this. You can smell.

Patrick McCalla

It. You can smell a difference. It's ridiculous. Now, I do want you to know, when I was over in India. Yes, a couple of years ago, I got a little can and it said pop on it. So I was like, there, it proves it because I grew up with its pop graphic kind of pop.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah. I found out that there's not very many people that say that, but I was one and it said Pop. So I took a picture of it. I can show it to you later if you want to know it.

Patrick McCalla

Is Pop ever?

Patrick McCalla

Yeah.

Patrick McCalla

So you worked with some authors to write significant authors. Yeah.

Tim MacDonald

Yeah, they were they they did some amazing work. But one of them I worked with was the president of the board that you went to school with. So yeah, I love that institution in the organization. Yeah. And love him.

Patrick McCalla

Moody. Moody Bible Institute. Moody Downtown Chicago.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tim MacDonald

The gentleman I got to serve was Jerry Jenkins. Yeah, Jerry just a stud.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah, he's. How many books he's written? Over a hundred books, right?

Tim MacDonald

Yeah. Yeah, it's over 200 now. Yeah, I believe. Yeah. He's prolific writer and besides that, he's just a great.

Patrick McCalla

Great individual, too. Great. Well, in some people that may not know, Jerry Jenkins may actually know of his son right now, Dallas Jenkins, who? Right. He's the producer of the chosen.

Tim MacDonald

Yeah, creator of it.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah, the creator of.

Tim MacDonald

Yeah, it was his brainchild.

Patrick McCalla

Wow. And that that is outstanding. It is. I can't recommend that enough.

Tim MacDonald

Agreed. Me neither. Yeah, I am an absolute fan. Yep. And I would encourage anyone who's listening if you haven't watched any of the episodes of the Chosen do so. Yeah, just do so.

Patrick McCalla

The very first one people saw, I didn't even know much about it. People told me about the first one that came out. I was really tired. I made about halfway through it and then I turned it off. For some reason I don't remember why, but then I came back to it a couple of months later and that

Patrick McCalla

hooked because when you get to the end of that first episode and.

Tim MacDonald

Mary Mack.

Patrick McCalla

Jesus and he calls.

Patrick McCalla

Her by name.

Patrick McCalla

Yes, I teared.

Tim MacDonald

Up. I do. I do now. Yes. As I think about it, I'm that I can't think of another episode of anything video that captures my heart like, yeah, yeah.

Patrick McCalla

I just got goosebumps thinking about it.

Tim MacDonald

Yeah, it's.

Patrick McCalla

Extraordinary. It was magnificent. And then the Nicodemus one was the same one. Yeah. When he's like, when when the realization comes over. Nicodemus, this is the one. Oh, it's so it's so incredible. So did you know Dallas when he was young?

Tim MacDonald

And I knew him when he was out of college and and when he was getting started his career. And he's just. Yeah, he and his family, his wife, Amanda, their kids are. Yeah. It's just a great family. Just just the whole family.

Tim MacDonald

Just much love and respect for them.

Patrick McCalla

I told when I found out you worked for Jerry Jenkins, I told you I was working security at the time at Moody Bible Institute, and I would walk through Moody Publishing. They had their big warehouse there. And I remember just seeing stacks of Jerry Jenkins book.

Patrick McCalla

Another one came out. And then, you know, it seemed like it seemed like a couple of months later is pretty long in that another Jerry Jenkins book, I mean, he wrote a lot of books. He did ones I read quite a few.

Tim MacDonald

And great ones. Yeah. I was a raving fan of Left Behind the series. Yeah. Yeah. And just because I love the writing, it was I really enjoyed it, you know?

Patrick McCalla

Well, really, the subject matter that we want to talk about is generous living, which is part of what you do now. Right. You're volved in in helping people with generous living. I think most people listening have a general idea what that means.

Patrick McCalla

But but unpack that a little bit. What does it mean when you talked about someone living generously? What would that look like?

Tim MacDonald

So what I do now is I work with an organization called National Christian Foundation. So I'm the president of our region here. We serve givers in Arizona and New Mexico, and we want to come alongside anyone and help them understand this joy of generous giving and how it affects all aspects of life.

Tim MacDonald

We know that many folks have a financial strategy, right? So they have those ducks in a row, but they may not have a giving strategy. And so when they don't have a giving strategy, many times they're missing opportunities or spending more on taxes maybe than they necessarily want to do.

Tim MacDonald

Yeah. So NCF what we do our team does is come alongside those folks and help them create that giving strategy so they can experience that greater joy of generosity that comes alongside that. And then that's what we do.

Patrick McCalla

Would you would you suggest that for anybody at any income level saying it's important that you sit down and you have a a giving strategy? Yeah, this.

Tim MacDonald

Is an income.

Patrick McCalla

Amount. This has nothing to do with income.

Tim MacDonald

That's right. It's a heart set and it has to do with everyone. So time, money, resources, your family, you're how you interact with people. It's all encompassing. So it's not a money scenario, although there are aspects of giving that we can do with our resources.

Tim MacDonald

But that's. The money side of things is just a I'll say, an outcome sometimes or a small slice of everyone's life and their journey. And we love to come alongside folks as they're walking on this generous journey and and what that that looks like.

Tim MacDonald

And so this journey of generosity, which is a which is an event we help host from time to time, and there's a larger organization that really focuses on stewarding those conversations really, really well that we're aligned with at the hip.

Tim MacDonald

And we love hosting those kind of have conversations with with folks and with no pretense whatsoever. It's not a fundraising kind of conversation because money has nothing to do with it. It's a life heart set. Yeah. And yeah, when that when that happens, you get many times you go to the, to the spot right where that took

Tim MacDonald

place. Yeah.

Patrick McCalla

And you can right when I met you you were talking about when you that generous journey. Yeah. That you can remember. Exactly. So tell us where that was. You can remember where you were standing.

Tim MacDonald

And I know exactly where I was standing on the stairwell in our house. It was after my wife and I had come back up the stairs are the basement of our home was empty. And, and so we were in a home that was much larger than we needed.

Tim MacDonald

And, and so we had friends of our oldest son at the time found themselves needing a place to stay. So a lady and I walked downstairs to look at the house. Maybe they could move in down here and we're walking back up the stairs and she says, Tim, if you hadn't taken me to that generous event, we

Tim MacDonald

wouldn't be having this conversation today. There's only one answer we have, and the answer's yes. They're moving into our house. Let's just make this happen. And that was transformative for both of us. It wasn't. We didn't give anything right.

Tim MacDonald

We didn't give anything away. Yeah. All we did was we had a resource that someone else needed to utilize and that spurred on activity in our in our minds and our hearts to help service home.

Patrick McCalla

How did that event lead you to the point like it almost sounds like your wife was telling you like this, we don't even need to discuss this. We both know what we're going to do here. How did that event lead you to that?

Patrick McCalla

Like, do you think prior to that, to you guys going through that event that you might have been on the stairwell, not even thought about that? That was an option.

Tim MacDonald

We would have had the conversation, but don't think our hearts would have been at the very same place for us to so easily say, yep, yep. Done, deal. Next. Yeah. What? What have we got to do next? Yeah.

Tim MacDonald

Versus hemming and hawing and maybe not understanding what this joy for somebody else can mean. Because for us, it certainly wasn't a hardship and but for this family was a big deal. They got to be out. They get to be somewhere, have their own access to their own place and really be able to do what they want

Tim MacDonald

to do on their own. And they don't have the resources to do it. And for a young family, that's a.

Patrick McCalla

Oh, it.

Tim MacDonald

Didn't necessary at all.

Patrick McCalla

So and you because you use that phrase earlier, the joy of generous living, it's you and your wife got to experience that joy. But they do it as well, right? Yeah. Yeah. There's a ripple effect there, too, isn't there?

Patrick McCalla

Like when you started when you started down that journey. And that's why I like when you talked about this journey of generous living that you do something like you and your wife did, but then it just leads to the next thing and the next thing and next thing, doesn't it?

Tim MacDonald

It does. And so it was for leaning. I are the ones who really felt that joy. Right. That's that we got to experience that. They got to experience a place to land and they were safe and everything was was great.

Tim MacDonald

They meaning mom and dad and two little kids and the two little kids just they had a ball because we had plenty of space. And so they'll remember that opportunity as well. Yeah. And then we get to share it.

Tim MacDonald

It's sharing with other individuals. Why the heck are you doing that? Yeah. Why did you open up your house? And the question isn't, why would we questions? Why wouldn't we? And there there was there was no hurdle there whatsoever.

Tim MacDonald

And I'm not saying we're the most generous individuals at all. I'm just simply saying what we experienced was awesome. And to be able to share that joy with others, it's something God's got us to do.

Patrick McCalla

Why do you think? Because I can I can almost guarantee you that everyone in the audience is listening right now, can think back on a time where they were generous and they're going, Yeah, I remember the joy it brought me.

Patrick McCalla

Why do you think that gives us such joy as human beings to live generously?

Tim MacDonald

Yeah, I think for me, the faith aspect to it, there's a personal aspect to it, a human being aspect to it as well. But I think when you layer faith on top of that, it just what Christ did for us was extraordinary.

Tim MacDonald

So obviously I come from a Christian faith and and so so what that what I've experienced with that generous living and giving is just as smart is what I experienced is extraordinary. Yeah. When I'm able to to do is a small slice of that same thing of giving.

Tim MacDonald

And it doesn't matter if it's much or little. Yeah. It's about how we go about doing that. Meaning to are we there to do it for him and to serve others? Yeah. And I'm not looking for any recognition from anyone at all.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah.

Tim MacDonald

The joy is in the giving and everything else gets to take care of itself.

Patrick McCalla

I really like, too, how you said that. It's a it's a mindset. It's a heart, right? It's a heart issue of it. It's it's not just about I, you know, I have some money in my wallet. It's just all that I have all that I've been given is it's not just mine.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah, it's. I'm stewarding it. Right. Is that part of that?

Tim MacDonald

Yeah, it is. And so I think the the mind set around that which I have come to understand that I haven't always had this mindset. Do we have an abundance mindset or a scarcity mindset is do do we we never have enough.

Tim MacDonald

Right. You could argue that no one will ever have enough.

Patrick McCalla

Just want a little bit more?

Tim MacDonald

Yeah, just a little more. Just a little bit more. Right. And the trappings that are that our society puts on us in that in that realm is real. Yeah, it's it's it is real. And so but that comes from a scarcity mindset, an abundance mindset if God really owns at all.

Tim MacDonald

Yeah. And if I really am his Stuart and he's called me to do this with whatever, then I'm, I'm, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do because he's called me to do that. Yeah. And, and so it's not mine.

Tim MacDonald

Yeah, it is. And so when I give it away, I'm not giving you anything of mine, right? I'm just transferring the, the ownership is then from him. He's going to continue to have that. You're you're now a steward of what that is.

Tim MacDonald

And so the abundance versus scarcity mindset is an extraordinary thing for it to click on. My favorite books is a book called Rooting for Rivals, written by two gentlemen, Peter Greer and Chris Horst.

Patrick McCalla

Rooting for Rivals. Rooting for Rook.

Tim MacDonald

Yes, Protegee. And it talks about that scarcity versus abundance mindset. And it's convicting as church members, as church goers, as organizations who are in the marketplace to serve the community. So it could be churches, nonprofits, whatever the case may be, and how many of those organizations actually share with one another.

Tim MacDonald

And the idea is, if God really does want it, then we are to be sharing this together. And and this isn't my donor. Yeah. Right on a fundraising side of things. This is what we're to do together. And I would encourage anyone in leadership, one, to read that book.

Tim MacDonald

But to anyone in, in Christian leadership, wondering how on earth are we going to make this plan happen? It opens some some ideas that I think is just awesome.

Patrick McCalla

I know, again, because I've worked in the nonprofit church world for much of my life, and I know that there is that danger. It's so easy to fall into that. Like there's this pie and it's only so big.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah. And you are an organization and I'm an organization as an organization over here. And we're all fighting for a piece of that pie. Yeah. And we, but there's only so much but that's doing bear city mindset.

Tim MacDonald

We're doing this. Yeah. Where do this.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah.

Patrick McCalla

And that's what we see the biblical worldview again this is God saying I own all of this. I have more than you can imagine. I have more than you can. So it's not that there's a piece of pie.

Patrick McCalla

Patrick McCalla

was basically to tell you why this was a good product. Right. But it started to shift to get us to go. This is why you need this, not just want it, but need this.

Tim MacDonald

Right.

Patrick McCalla

Which led us to I mean, we've just been raised now in a culture and society is like, I don't have enough. I need more. Yeah, right.

Tim MacDonald

Yeah, I was this is so silly. But along those very lines I found, I found that same trap. So I can talk about this all day long. Yeah, but as soon as I walk out this door, I can be right back in that same spot.

Tim MacDonald

So my wife and I are at an event, and everybody's dressed up in cowboy gear. Well, we didn't have cowboy gear, so we we happened to go to this great cowboy store that happens to be in this little town.

Tim MacDonald

It's just great. And you know, these boots, you have to have these boots. Yeah, I need them. Yeah, right. Well, thank goodness that my, my heart didn't succumb to that mindset. Yeah. And I need to spend frivolously on doing something that.

Tim MacDonald

But it's a constant struggle. Yeah.

Patrick McCalla

We probably never arrive in this life. Correct? Never. That's why I like that phrase. It's a journey.

Patrick McCalla

It is? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Patrick McCalla

So you're a little further along in that journey than you were a while ago. Right? Mm hmm. Some of us can maybe look in, honestly. I mean, maybe some of the people listening can go. I actually feel like I've gone backwards in my journey, which is okay.

Patrick McCalla

Because that's part of your journey again, is what are you going to do about it now? Right. Right. But in these in these these sessions or these these these times where groups meet together and you call it the generous journey that was called.

Tim MacDonald

It's called the Journey of Generosity.

Patrick McCalla

Journey.

Tim MacDonald

Short form it. Call it a jog. Yeah, a journey. A generosity.

Patrick McCalla

Journey of generosity. What what do people experience in that? Like, what is one of the things that starts happening with them? That's what you guys went to you and your wife. What changed the conversation on the stairwell?

Tim MacDonald

Yeah, it is a conversation around resources, time, heart, desire, and. And how are we how we utilizing those resources that we have to their full extent. And so many folks gathered together on a journey of generosity and a jog.

Tim MacDonald

And many times it's folks who don't know each other. Sometimes it's folks who do know each other. And there's always an expectation, always a thought. Okay, they're going to ask me south. Yeah, you got to be asking.

Patrick McCalla

I'm sure. Right. Yeah. The most the best.

Tim MacDonald

Conversation to have is, is it's generally over an afternoon evening and then the next morning. And the reason why it's it's done in that format is because you get some time overnight to percolate, talk with your spouse and really get an idea, what is this?

Tim MacDonald

What is this meaning to us? What does it mean to me? Encourages conversation as a family. But then at the end of the time there's a okay, what's next? Yeah. And the what's, what's next piece is okay, let's put this into action.

Tim MacDonald

Let's, we can still have more conversation, which is what we look to have. But if we're going to put it into action, like leaning I did, putting it into action. How do you open up your house? It may be different for somebody else, right?

Tim MacDonald

They could have they could have a resource that they had never thought of that, oh, maybe I can use that for what I want to do on this generosity side of of I've never really thought about before.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah, I've often thought of some of those passages where Jesus talks about generosity and even his reward system and that and I catch myself often thinking, I don't know if I really believe what he says. I know I teach it.

Patrick McCalla

I've preached it, but. If I really believed with all my heart what he talks about regarding Hey, if you live this way, this is even even personally my reward in the next life that you're talking about. I wouldn't even hesitate to be over abundantly generous.

Patrick McCalla

Right? So I think a lot of times it's me just struggling and I'm just being transparent and honest with you where I go. I've preached it before, but I'm going. I must not fully believe it or understand it or I don't know.

Patrick McCalla

What do you think that is?

Tim MacDonald

Yeah, that's what you're. You're talking to the mirror.

Patrick McCalla

Right?

Tim MacDonald

Yeah. So very, very same thing because of the line of work. I mean, I come across some of the most generous individuals I've ever met, and many of us would say, Holy cow, you can't give anymore. And now we're looking at resources.

Tim MacDonald

We're looking at money and and business ownership, all that sort of stuff. And they would say maybe touch the iceberg. I mean, touch the tip of it because because it's there's so much more that I need to be giving over.

Tim MacDonald

And when I say giving over, I'm not talking about giving to somebody else, but truly giving to my creator. And and so for each one of us, it's that journey. Yeah, every single one of us, no matter where we are in that journey and everyone's journey is different.

Tim MacDonald

So as soon as you start hearing about my journey, well, yours can be completely different.

Patrick McCalla

That's so important to understand, is that.

Tim MacDonald

Yeah and yeah but but crisis got his hand right in the midst of that. Right now the different journey is just awesome. Yeah. And it's rewarding for each one of us, even though we're on a different path.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah. I doubt very many people are going to get to the end of their life and go, I really wish I wasn't as generous as I was.

Tim MacDonald

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Patrick McCalla

I don't see I think at the end of Schindler's List movie where, you know, Schindler, who had who had given so much and sacrificed so much to to save a lot of Jews. But at the end of that was like, I could have done more.

Tim MacDonald

Could have done.

Patrick McCalla

More. That's probably where most of us will be at the end of our life. Not going was way too generous. Right?

Tim MacDonald

And it gave way too much away.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tim MacDonald

I wish I could take some of this with me. Yeah, yeah. Because that's not happening. Yeah, for any one of us.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah. So what are some tangible things that you would recommend? I mean, so there's people living are listening, myself included, sitting across the table from you right now going, Man, you're motivating me once again to go, I want to I want to take that next step and get about better.

Patrick McCalla

I want to move in deeper into generous living. Yeah. What are some tangible things that you would suggest.

Tim MacDonald

So. So we have a website and S.F. giving dot com.

Patrick McCalla

When.

Tim MacDonald

And in S.F. National Christian Foundation NCF giving dotcom and on that website is got tools and resources for financial giving. Yeah, there's another organization called Generous Giving and Generous Giving there. They host these things called jogs. Yeah. Journey of Generosity.

Tim MacDonald

I would highly recommend someone go look at that website and sign up for a job. Good. And trust me, it'll be worth it. Trust me. If it wasn't, you'll get my phone number because they won't keep that from you and talk to me about it.

Tim MacDonald

Yeah, because I'd love to hear why it wasn't worth that. Yeah, because that's important to know.

Patrick McCalla

So you're telling us go to NCF giving.

Tim MacDonald

Dot.com.

Patrick McCalla

Dot com. Yeah. Go sign up for a jog and if for some reason we go through that and we're like, man, he was wrong. That was a total waste of my time. You're saying call me and I want to know why.

Tim MacDonald

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So NCF giving NCF giving dcoms got some tools and resources there. Generous giving is the website that you go on to sign up for a jog. Yeah. And at generous giving dot com you go on that website and you can say where you are.

Tim MacDonald

Yeah we do them on via zoom if if it's a folks can't get face to face but the face to face gathering is just just awesome. There's some there's some great churches there, some great organizations here in the Valley that have hosted many of these kind of gathering.

Tim MacDonald

And the small group, it's eight or ten people max. Yeah. And you're just just talking about what does generosity mean? Because generosity to you could mean you could be completely different generosity to me. And so many times we layer that right.

Tim MacDonald

Well, Patrick, if you're really being generous, then you're doing this well. Your generosity has nothing to do with Tim McDonald. Nothing. My generosity has nothing to do with Patrick. What God's called me to do, I need to do and I need to do with my whole heart.

Tim MacDonald

And I don't always do that. In fact, I probably pretty fall pretty low on that scale. But it's not a comparison scenario. It's that hard set mindset scenario that comes back to each one of us.

Patrick McCalla

You know? Yeah, I was when you were talking about that. And I thought about, you know, hopefully people signing up for this, groups going through this. But the the impact, I mean, if we as human beings live generously, as God called us, to live a world would be a lot different.

Patrick McCalla

And I mean, it would be radically different. And then when we do live that out, there's also a generational impact that it can have. Like the when you and your wife were on the stairs that day and it wasn't.

Patrick McCalla

It wasn't even a discussion because you'd gone through this jog. Yeah. And now you're, you know, live generously. Those two little kids. They may live differently now, which means their kids may live differently, which means they're kids. So it starts to have a generational impact, doesn't it?

Patrick McCalla

It does.

Tim MacDonald

It was fun talking to our boys afterwards. After I made that decision, we had this family because. Because that meant when they came home, there wasn't additional room for them to say. So we'd have to work that out.

Tim MacDonald

And their response was, Oh, yeah, it makes all the sense in the world.

Patrick McCalla

They were willing to sacrifice, too.

Tim MacDonald

Yeah. Yeah. That's not a big deal.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah. We had a similar situation again. And this is. This is a good story about me. I could share a thousand where I chose not to be generous as well. But we had I was teaching and coaching as in our we were in our toes.

Patrick McCalla

We had a young family as well. And there was a boy that acted out in school. He was a new kid. And then I learned more of his story and just a really tough background. But for some reason, we just heard God telling us like, just haven't come here somehow.

Patrick McCalla

So basically from sixth grade to him graduating, he would live with us on and off. My kids still today refer to him as their big brother. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm going to do his wedding here this fall. So all these years later.

Patrick McCalla

And we didn't know. It was just he needed a place to stay sometimes. And you open up and you don't know what else is going to develop out of that, right? Right. And I've been a recipient so many times of someone who's living generously.

Patrick McCalla

And what that does for me is motivates me to want to do it. Yeah. But so it's such a, it's the core, it's the really the core of what God meant for humanity to be isn't it.

Tim MacDonald

Yeah. And we've, we have, we flipped it in terms of the generosity aspect of that conversation as meaning money. And it didn't mean that to you, right? It was opening a home, opening your house to having someone come in.

Tim MacDonald

That's as generous as you can be. Open your house. Yeah, right. That's. That's a beautiful place to be.

Patrick McCalla

So. So that's. I don't want to miss that point, Tim, because I think that's so good, because I think there's a lot of people and I do this often that we're going, man, I'm maxed out right now. Like, I know you're talking about being generous, but I get to the end of every month and I have more

Patrick McCalla

bills that that need to go out than income that's coming in. And so I don't I don't I don't know if I can be generous right now. Yeah. And you're saying it's not just about writing a check that's old school.

Tim MacDonald

But, you know. Yeah, it's exactly what we're talking. Yeah. It's not about giving away money. And and there are many folks that will be listening to us who don't have the income to meet the needs that they have on a monthly basis.

Tim MacDonald

And so for that, individual generosity is not about what they're giving away financially. It could be a total restoring of what they have. And so to meet the needs that they that they have particularly but they still have time, they still have talent, they still have the ability to serve.

Tim MacDonald

And that's. When you give that up, you're giving up of yourself.

Patrick McCalla

Mm hmm.

Tim MacDonald

And it's a whole lot more difficult to give up of yourself than it is to throw down whatever bill you have and toss that out. That's a much different thing. But the conversation here's a conversation I love to have is is me.

Tim MacDonald

I don't have any more money. I got no more cash. Right. And I'm tapped out on time. So this whole generosity thing, don't be talking to me about that. And in my conversation many times with those folks is, okay, we're not we're not talking about cash in terms of the NCF side of the equation.

Tim MacDonald

We want to come alongside folks and understand, teach them how to understand how they can put their balance sheet in its hole into work for their charitable endeavors. And so there's many times when folks have been giving generously out of cash.

Tim MacDonald

But as we as our community exists, there's about everybody who has about 10% of what they have in all their assets, maybe, maybe up to 20%, but 10 to 20%, that is in cash. Okay. Chances are we're giving to wherever the church rescue mission, Saint Vincent de Paul, the food bank, all these great organizations.

Tim MacDonald

Chances are we're writing a check or giving it out of whatever resource. Cash wise. And so we get tapped out. There is there's a finite amount of that. Right. The other side of that equation is what assets are are owned by that individual.

Tim MacDonald

And that's the conversation we'd love to have, because many times folks have assets that they're like, well, I don't know how how how does my business fund my charitable giving? Well, that's the conversation we have on a daily basis to walk alongside someone who's been successful in their business.

Tim MacDonald

But that takes up a lot of time and energy, and I can't take any more money out of that. How do I go ahead and utilize that organization to fund my charitable goals? And that's what NCF does. We were doing it for 40 years.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah, I mean, it sounds like you unlock a whole new world of what it would mean to live generously again. Most of us think it's like I got this 10% here or whatever I can do. And you're opening up all different opportunities.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Give us a website one more time.

Tim MacDonald

NCF National Christian Foundation. NCF Giving NORTHCOM.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah. Love what you're doing, Tim. Love what you're part of. I can honestly tell you that one time we met at a restaurant now and in this conversation right here, both times you've impassioned me again to go. And I want to step deeper into this journey about what it means to live generously.

Patrick McCalla

And I mean, again, imagine, like, just just we happen to be in the Phenix Valley right now, right. Just imagine what would happen in this valley if you literally had hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of people that started to really seek what it meant to step deeper.

Tim MacDonald

Ending homelessness? Yeah. Ending hunger. Ending the. The lack of funding for the. The Biblical resources that need to be distributed around the globe. Those are all we have in our capabilities in this short amount of time to be able to eliminate those.

Tim MacDonald

We can do that. That's not something that's so far out of reach. Yeah, it is. It is. It is. It's within our.

Patrick McCalla

To do it. Do it.

Patrick McCalla

It is. Do it. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Well, Tim, thanks so much. One of the things we do with this podcast, which is fun, is the audience has gotten to know you here for the last 30, 40 minutes or so that we've been talking.

Patrick McCalla

So we want. Give us two truths in a lie.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Patrick McCalla

And the irony of it, because this is no gray areas, but I'm going to ask you to lie to us.

Tim MacDonald

But, yeah, we'll see.

Patrick McCalla

I'm going to try to guess what your your lie is.

Tim MacDonald

So I don't know that I mentioned we lived in Colorado Springs. That's where we raised our family. So for 30 years we were there. And so there's a little, little bit of context. We love being in the outdoors.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah.

Tim MacDonald

So two truths in a lie would be in that. In that realm.

Patrick McCalla

Okay.

Tim MacDonald

I've heard it. Buffalo.

Patrick McCalla

Okay. You've heard it. Buffalo. All right.

Tim MacDonald

Yeah, I've heard of Buffalo. I've shot an elk.

Patrick McCalla

You shot an elk?

Tim MacDonald

And I've seen two lions stalk. A Cape Buffalo. Oh. In the wild. Oh.

Patrick McCalla

Okay. Well, that's good. I'm going to go with the. That shooting the elk. If you if you live in Colorado, you probably hunted. So I'm going to go with that. A truth.

Tim MacDonald

Okay. So that's.

Patrick McCalla

The line. Oh, you got me. You got me. Okay.

Tim MacDonald

I have been on many elk walks. Elk hikes? Yeah. Carrying my rifle on my shoulder. Yes. And have never been able to do so.

Patrick McCalla

I am an absolute failure. So at my age and we were.

Patrick McCalla

Counting on you to bring food home. We'd be going hungry.

Patrick McCalla

Dude, we're birds. That's a different story. Yeah.

Patrick McCalla

So you watched Lions stock buffalo.

Tim MacDonald

Outrageous. Ngorongoro Crater, which is in Tanzania. Yeah, we were in our safari jeep. Right. And the guy stops, it goes, check this out. These two Cape Buffalo are walking across a plane and there's two lioness hiding in the grass.

Tim MacDonald

Right. Well, these two hyenas, we watched them for an hour and they attack and they they're on this Cape Buffalo. Right? This Cape Buffalo was like, not today, ladies. Fights them off and takes off.

Patrick McCalla

Really?

Tim MacDonald

It was it was the most remarkable thing.

Patrick McCalla

Wow. Yeah. Wow. And what was the other. Oh, herd of buffalo.

Patrick McCalla

Herding, but buffalo. Yeah. Yeah.

Tim MacDonald

So up in the hills in Colorado, there's herds of buffalo. While herd had gotten out, we're staying at this home and herd had gotten out. So we were out there in our four wheelers and we're like, Well, we need to move them back over.

Tim MacDonald

So we had three or four four wheelers and we were herding the buffalo back and there was one that is Big Boy, I mean, big boy. And so we had him, you know, motoring down the the roadway back to his his little house.

Tim MacDonald

And he just stopped. And he was in his mind, he's like, I'm done moving. So I will not be chased even longer. Turns around and stares us down and we're on our four.

Patrick McCalla

And they're massive.

Patrick McCalla

They're animals of animals.

Patrick McCalla

If someone has been close to one of those massive.

Tim MacDonald

Yeah. So we put our four wheeler in reverse, backed up and he turned around and walked.

Patrick McCalla

He won that one.

Patrick McCalla

Just like I'm going my own time. That's exactly right. Yeah.

Patrick McCalla

Well, Tim, thank you so much. Thanks for what you do. You do. And thanks for being on our podcast. Appreciate it so much. A pleasure, Patrick.

Host

Thank you. Thanks for listening to the No Gray Areas podcast to dove deeper into the story. Be sure to subscribe. Follow us on social media and check out no gray areas dot com.