In this episode we cover the broad topic of personal and professional growth. We hit a wide range of points including:

• Being unique and your business standing out within a crowd. 
• Adopting a role model mindset.
• Creating a niche. 
• Being a positive disruption within an industry.
• Why you should take, and pay, for development. 

You can find Keir on Facebook and Instagram or check out his website: https://www.keirwotherspoon.com

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Foreign welcome and thank you for joining us on the instructor podcast where every week we're joined by experts and innovators, leaders and game changers so we can hold a mirror up at the instructor industry and see where we can improve and raise our standards.

So if you're ready, we'll make a start.

So welcome and thank you for joining us today on episode three of the instructor podcast.

Now today we're going to be joined by the wonderful Kate Witherspoon and he's going to be talking to us about a whole lot of things, actually.

But primarily we're looking at personal and professional development.

This is another big area that I'm passionate in, so you know my stance on it before I even get into it.

So, so remember, if you enjoy these episodes, make sure you hit the subscribe button so they drop into your feed every Sunday when they go live.

So let's not mess about anymore.

Here's me and Kia.

Okay, so today we're joined by the magnificent Kia Wotherspoon.

How are you doing, Kier?

All well today?

I'm very well, thank you.

Terry, how are you?

I'm good, thank you.

Kier's here to join us and talk about personal and professional development both within the driver street driving industry and outside of that.

But before we start, can you tell us a little bit about your background, where you are now, what you ought to know?

Yeah, so.

So for 12 years prior to today, I was probably 13 years actually I was a personal trainer.

When was it?

2012, I think it was start off as a personal trainer.

Prior to that I was working in a factory, but a dead end job really wasn't going anywhere.

And then I decided I wanted to do something different.

So I went to university.

So I sold my home, quit my job because that's what you do, logical thinking, and went and done a degree at university.

My idea was to become a PE teacher.

That was initially what I wanted to do, but then I became a personal trainer because that's what you use your degree for, isn't it?

One personal trainer.

And yeah, so from there what I've done is where I started off as a personal trainer.

I decided to own my own gym.

So two years, three years in my personal training career, I thought, you know, I'm just going to open my own gym.

This is kind of what I wanted to do since I was a kid or have my own gym, so I'm going to do that.

So my own gym Ran that for five years, loved it.

But it wasn't, it wasn't giving us the lifestyle that I wanted and I wasn't in that frame of mind to take it to the next level.

That's not what I kind of wanted.

My own.

My whole purpose and life's always been to help people and I kind of lost that little bit when I owned my gym, which sent us down the route of high performance coaching.

And that's what I'm doing now.

So I'm a high performance coach or certified as a high performance coach.

And this is like a personal development.

It's like a personal development qualification.

And what that is what personal development is.

If anyone doesn't know, it's working on the person.

So it's not necessarily focused on the skills of a person, it's actually focusing on the qualities of a person.

To me, this is what a lot of people lack or it's not so much.

The lack is that they don't focus on it.

It was very much without focus.

And I went to university to be.

I don't know why I went to university, BP teacher apparently, but it was just skills that I was looking for.

And actually there was.

The skills weren't what I needed because before I actually went to university I had my personal training qualification.

I just didn't have the confidence to go and do it.

So I was.

What I was doing, I was hiding behind the qualifications and I was looking for the skills.

And this is what is really switched.

My mindset said, hold on a minute, it's if people were just more confident and worked on the personal development and the work done, all these factors that probably hold them back, then they're going to be so much better in life.

You don't need the degree, you don't need the qualifications, you don't need the skills.

Certainly you can develop more time, but starting with the development.

And this is why I went into personal development, more specifically high performance coaching, because there's a difference between.

There's a distinct difference between I would say a life coaching and what I do.

Both are really powerful, both are really good.

The way I view high performance coaching, it's taken people who are already achieving, but take them to the next level.

That is what it is.

So it's very dynamic in nature and it's getting people past barriers that you find in business.

I mean, you know yourself, Terry, I mean, how long have you been doing yours now?

Have you probably struggled yourself with some form of development issue?

Have you?

Massively at times.

I mean, I'VE I've only been an instructor five years now, but up until about 18 months ago, I wouldn't have had.

I didn't do anything.

I was a driving instructor that provided lessons and that was it.

And then there was a change about 18 months ago and I started doing different things.

Yeah, it's, it's because it's, it's so.

I mean, one of the things that actually pushed me, I wouldn't say it pushed me into it.

I've always wanted to do personal development and I think this came about because of the clients that I had and the clients I was working with.

I found out that being a fitness instructor or personal trainer, whatever tag you want to give it wasn't enough because it wasn't the.

Everybody wants to lose some weight, but there's more to it than just going into a gym, eating good food and exercise.

You've got to change your mindset, you've got to change the way that you think, you've got to change the actions that you take.

And this was so important that I need to develop the skills in that area.

That's where personal development come into.

And then when I closed my gym, I closed my gym for.

Because it was really wasn't given as my life purpose.

I was struggling, my family was struggling just for the fact that what was taking me away from everything, I was in a really difficult point in my life and business where we've been pulled apart.

Then when lockdown hit, it was a kind of decision, what do we do?

And I was just like, you know what?

Just to get rid of it, let's lose it.

Because then we can work on building our life back up.

And then in between that period, which is quite a difficult period, I started working with a driving instructor, one of my pals as a driving instructor.

I started working with him on a fitness basis.

That was it.

It was just working with him on a fitness basis.

And then as we kind of got into it, we sort of went away from.

I said we didn't go away from fitness.

He was still working on it, but we delved right into the performance based stuff for him.

And that was when I thought, you know what it is?

This is what I want to do.

I want to do this thing to make people better in the life and in the business.

And this is why I went more towards entrepreneurs as opposed to, I don't know, just helping somebody in general.

I wanted to help someone who's already achieving and take them to the next level.

And we completely changed his mindset.

Around to his business.

He was in a position in his business where he was really resentful of his job.

He'd been doing it for 10 years and he was massively overworked.

He was doing far too many hours.

And I think he got the point where lockdown kicked in and he was just like, I've got a break.

He actually benefited so much from it because he had that time back.

But the problem is when lockdown, the first lockdown finished, it's like, okay, now I have to get all my clients back in.

And again, the same thing happened.

He was overworked, he was overstressed, and these are the things that we worked on.

I thought this is where I could really make a difference here.

And because I'm very much.

I'm very anal about what I do.

It's got to be the right stuff.

It's got to be rightly.

I'll read a lot of research, but if I'm going to do something, I need that.

I've got to make sure that I'm getting the right information from the right people.

So the qualification that don't was actually really high level.

Cost me like a hell of a lot of money.

And I'm not saying that to brag and say who I'm certified, blah, blah, blah.

It's just the fact how passionate I am about doing things the right way.

So I invest a lot of time and a lot of money to get this.

And yeah, that's why some work as a high performance coach.

Now, more specifically, I'm going into the route with personal trainers.

That is where I'm going into that area because of my experience in personal training.

I know the issues with personal training, things like imposter syndrome, the anxieties, doubting your abilities, these types of things.

That's where I'm actually focused on heading now.

So I know I realized I was a little bit of a Rand off.

There, but no, there's a lot of good stuff there and definitely some stuff I want to pull up and speak about.

And what you've actually done there is what this podcast is about.

You know, this podcast is.

It's aimed for driving instructors, but I want it applicable to everyone because I kind of view driving instructors in the industry as a microsm of society.

And this podcast is aimed to hold a mirror up at us and look at what we can do differently and how we can improve.

And you've effectively just done that to me, in a sense, with a lot of the stuff you were talking about there, because as you Asked me.

And as I alluded to, I used to massively have imposter syndrome, massively doubt myself.

And you know, six months ago, I wouldn't have done this podcast.

You know, 12 months ago, 18 months ago, I wouldn't have even dreamed of going live.

And it's been a very slow, progressive development.

And you were mentioning the, the, the over instructor there.

So very similar situation to what I was in.

Lockdown last time was a break for me.

I'd taken on too much.

And you know, when the first lockdown ended, I did exactly the same thing.

This one, I've learned my lessons, I'm coming out differently.

But the, the driver training industry, the driving instructors, like I said, it's a microsystem society.

There's a lot, an awful lot of good people.

There's an awful lot of skilled and heavily qualified people.

There's also a lot of stubborn people.

There's a lot of people that don't want to change, that don't like the idea of change, that want to teach the way they taught 20 years ago, that don't believe in self development, that don't believe in progression, that don't want to pay for, advertise, all that kind of stuff.

They're very insulated.

So there's a lot that I can pick up there.

However, before we go into all that, I am going to fire a couple of questions at you.

Do you drive Kia?

I do, yes.

You do.

When did you pass your driving test?

When I was 17.

So a little while ago?

Well, yeah, 20 years ago, 23 years ago.

How did you get on with that?

Can you remember?

Did you struggle?

You'd have to tell us if you passed first time or not.

But did you struggle?

Did you find it easy?

What, you know, did you have to be nervous?

I was thinking back on it.

I was just really excited.

I had one of the things actually, When I was 15, I had a brain hemorrhage.

I was like, it was really, well, life threatening.

I was like 15 minutes of dying anyway and all I wanted to do, and this was right from a young age, I just wanted to drive a car.

I always used to dream of actually just get into a car and drive it.

I used to hang around with people who were older than us and we used to kind of drive places.

Like we'd just drive up the mood, just, you know, like randomly just drive around the cars because what kids do isn't it.

They were obviously ordered, had passed the test.

So I always wanted just to do that.

But then on my 17th birthday, which I was so excited for, my 17th birthday and eventually go out and drive, I couldn't because my brain hemorrhage.

I had to wait another six months to get it cleared.

So by the time I actually got that, I was just really excited to get in the car.

Still nervous, but I kind of changed that nervousness and anxiety to excitement because I just wanted it so badly.

I just really wanted to get in the car and just pass my test.

That was all I wanted to do.

But to me, I loved the experience, I really did because I had a pretty cool driving instructor.

He was quite laid back.

He was really easy to talk to, which I think, I think in any job or career or whatever it is you're doing, if you have that relationship with that person, it's going to go a good way, isn't it?

I think that's what a lot of people miss in a lot of coaching roles.

They're just looking for clients and actually just build a relationship.

You know, if you have to decline a client because you don't think you're going to get on together, don't think of the money aspect, think of that client could get more, better service elsewhere.

But that other person who comes in you like.

I had no issues at all with my driving instructor at all.

It was just such a nice guy and the people had issues with him because they didn't get on with them in whatever way we didn't have that, we got through it.

And I mean, I got my, through my test.

I failed it the first time, stupid mistake.

But the second time, you know, I just flew through it.

So, yeah, I mean, for me it was a really great experience.

Good stuff.

I mean, the.

And I'm asking this question to everyone that comes on from outside of our industry.

I'm interested to know your thoughts on, on our industry from the outside looking in and be as honest and frank as you want with regards to that.

How do you mean?

For example, you said the experience you've got, you learn with an instructor.

Obviously when you were 17, you had a good experience with him and you've worked with another instructor who's, who's your friend.

But as an instructor myself, when I tell a random stranger I'm a driving instructor, they're always pretty keen to give me their opinion on instructors.

You know, I'll get the, oh, you guys, you always park outside my drive or, you know, you're robbing us from money.

You know, we don't need 40 hours, we'll need 20.

We can teach them ourselves, or you'll obviously get the flip side of people being positive as well.

And, you know, whatever it might be, either way, I'm intrigued to know your thoughts on the industry, if you've got any or if you're very much almost a blank canvas on it.

Not really.

I mean, I think.

I think any role, when you're coaching someone one on one, whether that's in the gym or in a car, that's very demanding.

It's very.

I think it can be.

I don't want to take.

I don't want to go away from your question here, but for me looking in, I think it's a very tough industry.

I think it depends on the person.

Again, the driving structure that I had was, you know, he was just really good.

I got on really well with him.

On the other side of that, I've also seen people who resent the jobs and they get a bad name for themselves and they give the driving industry a bad name.

But I think that happens across all boards of coaching.

Some people are born to coach, some people aren't.

And I think that's the difference.

It's not necessarily the industry itself, it's the person.

Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if.

Even if you work for somebody, you're still the person.

You're the one who's getting in the car with that client.

You're the one that has to make an impression.

You're the one who has to bring that energy.

And this is one of the things I was saying to my client, the driving instructor, and he was resenting his job.

And it wasn't the fact that he hated his job, he actually really loved it.

It was the fact he was doing all these hours, he was working with clients that drained his energy.

And one of the things we said is, look, you need to bring energy to every person you have in your car.

If you do five hours a week and you can be energized for those five hours, then you're going to be a better instructor.

People are going to want to come to you.

If you're doing 10 hours to 12 to 16 hours a day and you're drained of energy, you're going to be miserable.

Get, get, get.

Can we swear in this podcast?

Yeah, swear away.

I'll give it the old explicit rating.

Awesome.

Even miserable shit.

But that was.

That's the thing.

I don't.

I think.

I don't think people on the outside know.

I hate when people say behind cars and they're beeping like Stupid learning driver, blah, blah, blah.

And I think, come on, imagine when you were little and you were in the car and you had to drive.

It's a really stressful job.

You are taking somebody on the road, right?

You're taking someone on the road, it could be extremely dangerous.

Yes, I know there's dual controls and there's all these types of things.

But at the day you're letting someone behind the wheel of that car, there's a lot of responsibility on that person.

And I don't think they're giving probably the respect that they deserve from an outsider looking in.

They don't get the respect that they deserve.

Again, like what you're saying, you're charging this and you're charging that.

Yeah, because you charge that because your skills, you're giving those skills, you're getting that person pass the test.

It's like saying to someone, look, do you want to get past your test in three months or do you want to wait three years?

Do you want to wait three years?

Go and drive with your mother.

All right, if you want to pass in three months, come work with me.

I'll get you passed in three months.

That's the difference.

That's what you're paying for.

And that's what people on the outside that don't see that.

But saying that's the whole border cross, cross in general, people don't see personal trainers charging £100 an hour.

Like, I can do that for free.

Awesome, go and do it for free, then it's fine.

But if you come with me and I'm charging £100 an hour, then I'm going to get you in great shape.

Like if you are charging £100 an hour for your driving, say, yeah, but I'm going to get you pass your test in six weeks.

If you want to wait six years, that's fine.

But if you want to pass in six weeks, you pay the premium.

It's, it's really interesting you say that especially like I said, being across a whole board, across a whole.

And I think it's probably every industry, but because it's the industry you're in, that's the one that you're obviously familiar with.

So I'm always interested to get an outsider's opinion.

And you gave the example there of, of traffic lights and that's always a good one for me because it's gonna throw some numbers out there.

A two hour lesson, you might do 20 sets of traffic lights.

One of them, you might get someone behind that beeps at you.

But you don't remember the other 19.

You remember the one.

And that's the same for any walk of life.

In it, you know, if you put a post on Facebook today, you could get 20 positive comments and one negative comment.

Which comment do you remember?

And I think that that's reflective in every industry.

And for me, like I said, I was straight away when I was mentioning it, then I was giving out all these negative opinions.

Think about any positive ones.

But I also think that there is a stigma towards driving instructors in the industry.

And I do think part of that is brought about by ourselves.

For example, and I mentioned this before, I'm gonna say it wasn't that long ago.

I haven't got a clue when it was because of the current timing situation.

It probably was about 2, but pulled upside at road, and someone come out and asked if I could move because I were outside their house.

I mean, there's several ways I can handle that.

My approach was, yeah, okay, no problem.

Just give us one minute.

We'll.

We'll reset because the learner's driving.

So we'll reset and we'll.

We'll move on elsewhere.

No problem.

And we're actually just driving around.

So we went off and drove around.

I could have handled that very differently.

I could have been aggressive.

Now inside, I was very much thinking, no, we don't park here all the time.

I've never parked here before.

Go around the block, come back, there's someone else part there.

So it's often, it's.

It's what you're not seeing and what other people see.

So if that, that person that beat the lights that day, if they'd have seen, if they'd have got stuck behind a line at five times that day that was stolen, a set of lights by that.

And they're not condoning it, but by that fifth time, they're probably frustrated.

So I do think it's interesting when you're looking from the inside as opposed to looking on the outside.

Really interesting point that you made there, because.

Just been reading a book, actually.

It's called Influence by Robert Cadini.

Is it Cadini?

I never pronounce his last name.

Anyway, it's a really, really good book.

And one of the examples he makes in his book, I mean, this has actually been a study that's done.

They've done a study.

And what they've done is they put a car.

They made two differences of a car.

There was a car that was, say, a big posh Rolls Royce, okay, at the traffic lights.

And what They've done is they put the test subjects, the guy who was the test guy, he was sat in the Rolls Royce.

What they were doing was sitting and when the lights turned green, they weren't moving.

And what they were doing, they were waiting to see how long they waited until our person behind beeped.

And what was really, really what I found fascinating about the study was anybody in a Rolls Royce was given loads of time before they would be.

They just let that car sit there.

However, if it was a car that was not so good car, like, I don't know, like a knackered up sedan or something like that, or a Fiesta, Ford, Fiesta, rusted Fiesta within seconds, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.

Trying to get this car to move.

So it was the respect issue.

They were given so much respect to this person in the big car.

You know, let them do the thing because it must be really important.

The other car, however, there was just no respect there.

And there's probably quite an element to that, to driving.

They're not worthy to be on the road.

They haven't even passed the test.

It shouldn't even be on the road.

That is people's mentality.

And it's probably not intentional, it's just the way that people think.

And again, it's that thing is this like, well, you know, you shouldn't be on the road, you haven't passed your test.

And I think that is people's mentality towards that and it's not right.

But I think from a driving instructor's point of view, how you reacted is that, okay, I can react in two ways here.

I can react in a way that I'm going to get aggressive, but what's that going to do to my driving student?

They're going to get frustrated, they're going to get really anxious, probably more anxious than they already are.

So it's a case.

Okay, I've got to put this person first.

I need this person beside me to feel comfortable and confident.

So how I react now, that is going to dictate how this person is.

So it kind of puts responsibility on you.

Then say, yeah, that's fine.

Okay, we'll be a couple of minutes and we'll turn around.

And it's been calm and collected to that person, isn't it?

And reassuring them what they're doing is perfect, don't worry about it.

And, you know, making sure they're all right.

Yeah.

It's interesting you say that as well, because I think that we're heavily, as people, we're heavily influenced by what we see.

So like you said about me acting that certain way, then that that student hopefully would take that on board.

And if they got in, I don't know about a similar situation, but a situation where someone was being almost confrontational, they can diffuse that.

Because I went away from there quite calm and relaxed and not stressed.

If I'd have made that situation stressful, I'm driving away differently.

And I think as instructors, it's important that we lead by example in that sense.

But I also think you learn to drive when you're a child.

If you're sat in a car as a child, you're learning to drive all the time because you're seeing how your parents drive when they're driving you about.

And then as you get older, you see how your friends drive.

So you might not consciously thinking, I'm going to drive like that, but you are picking up those, those external habits, which kind of brings us back to what we're talking about before.

And I'm going to use me as the example again in that for I would have my now 38.

So for 36 years I was scared to do anything because that's what I've seen.

You don't put yourself out there.

That's.

That's bad.

You hide away, you follow what everyone else is doing and you stick to the norm.

And I was one of those people that just kind of did what everyone else did.

I don't want to call myself a sheep, I don't like that phrase, but I was one of those people and because that's the way I was raised.

So.

And I think a lot of people in driving industry are like that.

What initial tips, if you've got any, I'm sure you have, would you give to people to start coming out of that comfort zone of just following what everyone else is doing?

This is huge.

And this is one of the things that I want to work on.

One of the big reasons that I'm going to be working on what I'm doing is for this very, very reason.

It's developing courage and it's getting past this imposter syndrome.

And I think the biggest thing you can do, I mean, there's loads of strategies you can use.

It's adopting the role model mindset.

And that's the thing.

If you can be a role model or someone else, your insecurities disappear because that person who you're mentoring or coaching, that becomes the priority.

That is, it's just switching that mindset.

And this is the thing I Think a lot of people, what they do is, is they just have the instructor mentality.

I just have to show them what to do.

It's like, no, you've got to be a role model.

I remember my instructor.

I remember his name.

I remember what he looks like.

I remember everything about him because he was a role model.

Me, I sat in his car.

I had so much respect for him because of how he was.

I can't even remember how he taught us to drive.

I cannot.

But I remember him, and I remember his influence on me, and I remember him being so calm and relaxed, but at the same time, really good at what he'd done.

And my traits as a driver, now, I probably still have those same traits because of how he's taught me.

And that's the thing.

It's that mindset of every time you get in the car.

It's like, I'm getting in the car as a role model here.

This person is looking at me as a role model.

They're not looking at me as an instructor.

And I think that's the difference.

It's that mindset of getting in the car.

Who do you want to be when you get in that car?

And this is one of the things I said to my client.

It's like, look, when you get into a car, that person's relying on you.

You've got to change that.

If you get in the car and you're tired and you're miserable and you're grumpy, what kind of energy you bringing back off of that person?

You get in that car and all you care about is that person.

It's like, I just want to get you passed through your test.

I know you're anxious.

I know you really concerned.

It's okay because I'm here to help you.

That is what the best coaches do.

That is what the best people in the world do.

And that's what makes people stand out.

That's what gives.

That's what allows people to put the prices up.

Do you know what I mean?

It's like, well, you're just competing with pricing.

No, no, just get good at what you do.

Get the very best at what you do.

Not in terms of your skills and your development and how you can coach somebody else to be awesome and good at what you're trying to get them to do.

You can charge what you want.

You don't have to work 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 hours of crazy hours because everybody wants to come to you because you're so good at what you do.

You Understand people.

This is why reading books on influence, you know, reading books on like how to be a role model, how to be a leader, These are so important because it's not about getting people to go, I don't know, some type of tribe, which I think a lot of people look at influence as.

It's not you influencing someone to be a better person, you know, in your case, it's someone to be a better person, but a better driver.

You know, get them through the test, get them to go to the test excited as opposed to nervous.

That's, that's, that's my opinion.

It's adopting that role model mindset and.

Yeah, that's a challenge.

Getting someone to be excited is also nervous.

Yeah, okay, I'm not trying to make this about me, but I'm using myself as example.

I will try and push forward that.

Go and show the examiner what you can do and worst case scenarios, you found out somebody you can't do well, then you can put that right and, but you know, again, there's a stigma around that and you know, whether you should be passing first time or not.

And there's external influences by family and friends and what you're seeing on social media and whatnot.

And just on social media they're like, previously you mentioned prices and putting your price up.

That's a big sort of topic of debate within the driving school industry.

I'm in a lot of Facebook groups for instructors and you'll see regularly, almost daily, someone pop up and say, should we put those prices up?

Or there'll be something about price.

And the comments go from one extreme to the other.

I am a big believer that prices should be higher than they are as an average.

There are some, and I'm not going to quote figures actually because I don't want to pinpoint anyone, but there are some ridiculously low prices kicking about where you would have to work an excessive number of hours to, to make a living.

And there are some high priced about.

I'm towards the top end.

But if.

What advice would you give to someone?

Because I think a lot of the problem with putting price up is people scared that they're going to lose customers.

And I think it's a fear and that's where the resistance come from.

So if someone is scared they're going to lose customers, they're scared to charge for what they're worth.

What advice would you give to those people to overcome that fear?

Demographics.

That's what kind of people are you talking?

That's the thing, I think and Again, this is just from talking to my friend and he was a driving instructor.

Say, who are you trying to target this as well?

Just anybody who wants to pass the test.

Why?

Why don't you get more specific with who you want to target?

Because then you can create a waiting list and you can create demand if you work, I don't know, for example, maybe you have a demographics, who's people in the 30s or people in the 20s.

I don't know what it is specifically.

I don't know the details of the driving stroke industry itself.

But why does it have to be so broad?

Can it be condensed?

Can it be really identified?

Can you really niche down?

Because you can do this in any industry.

Why can't that be done in the driving industry?

Because what I see, and this is my perception, looking from the outside, is that there's loads of cars on the road and they're just competing on price.

It's like you look at a shop, say bakers, all the bakers, they're competing on price.

Why does that one bakers stand out?

Because they have something different, they have something unique.

Why does that personal trainer stand out?

Because they have something different, they have something unique that they're offering.

Maybe they just train women in strength training.

Maybe they train guys over 50s to lose weight.

That is why they stand out, because the focus on a specific niche, the focus on a specific type of person, specific psychographics, you know, imagine if you had, I don't know, just, just off the top of my head here, like you really.

Your niche was people who were overly anxious.

Yeah.

You work on the development of someone who's overly anxious.

You work on those skills and understand how to get past anxiety and the skills that you can use, you can then that person not just to drive, but how to, how to drive without feeling anxious.

You become known for that.

So, yes, you're a driving instructor, but you know what?

You're freaking awesome driving instructor because you have something different that you offer.

That's the thing.

I think when you compete on price, people just panic and they start trying to, well, he's put his price up, I'm going to have to put mine up.

And then you get in this massive sort of fight and you become overwhelmed, you become anxious.

Like, just stay in your own lane.

Like, this is who I do, these are the people who I work with.

I'm just going to get really good at doing that.

And when I get good at doing that, then everybody's going to come to me who has those qualities that I Want to work with.

Why shouldn't you be able to do that?

If you want to work with certain demographics, why not do it?

Maybe you just want to work with women, maybe you just want to work with guys, maybe you want to work with old dudes who never passed the test and want to do it.

There's a market out there for everybody, isn't there?

That, that's really, really insightful and useful I think because that is an area in my belief largely again lacking in this industry.

People will I think generally target school leavers or anyone and the way they do that, as you mentioned, is battling price.

So when you see it on the high street, you see it on sides at cars as well.

You know, 10 lessons or 10 hours, 100 pounds or starter offers when it.

And I've done all that, that, you know, I did all that before.

I found my niche and I found my niece accidentally and my niche.

Exactly what you said.

It's anxious drivers, it's people that are not necessarily worried about driving but worried about getting in a car with someone.

And one thing always stands out to me.

I'm going to tell this story actually.

And I had a student and she come for a first lesson, it was two hour lesson, she seemed quite nervous but again a lot of people are, she was very pleasant, blah, blah, blah.

We did the lesson, she gets out and she's walking off and as she's walking away she stops and turns around, starts going back to the car.

Immediately I'm like oh no, what have I done wrong?

Anyway, she knocks on window and, and she says can I get in?

So she gets in and she said I wanted to say thank you.

She said I didn't want a male driving instructor.

She picked me.

I used to work for a national school.

She picked me off this, this register because she saw my name and assumed that the name Terry was female.

So, you know, whatever.

But she called me and she was really nervous.

She just wanted to say thank you for how at ease I'd put her.

And that was one of the biggest workup calls I ever had because I'd never hadn't done it intentionally.

It was just me being me.

And I suddenly realized I've got 17 year old girls getting in a car with me that I'm then driving off to somewhere where they don't know.

It's like that's got to be scary for some people.

So I don't target that but that's how I put myself across.

And that's one of the things that started making me Doing videos because I realized that I am quite a calming person.

I can revoke people at times.

I'm sure there's quite a few driving instructors swearing at me right now, but I'm quite a calming people.

For students, I've had no problem with prices, I've had no problem with customers.

Generally my students are 25 to 30 and they're females.

That's who come to me.

That doesn't rule everyone out.

I get bloats coming to me, I get different genders coming to me, I get different ages, I get 17 year olds.

The oldest person I've taught was 60, so I get a wide variety.

But that core is there and that's because I accidentally started marketing towards them.

Yeah.

And I don't think I'd have ever done it intentionally because I'd have been too scared, but.

And that's where the, again the fear comes in.

It's the fear of if I market towards 25 to 30 year old females, I'm not going to get anyone.

But that's, that's not true.

And that's the same for every street.

I'm sure in your industry you market towards a niche but you get a lot of different people.

It is.

And it's just like, who do you like?

If you've been in the industry, say a few years, you've worked with loads of different people, right?

I mean, if you just get in the industry, any industry, I wouldn't say niche down straight away.

Work with a whole host of people.

Same when you get into personal training, look, work with as many people as you can for a couple of years and then just say, which people do you really like working with?

Like for me personally, from a personal training perspective, I love working with women and I love working with women because I got in really well with them.

But it was amazing getting like a woman from quite nervous and unconfident to like deadlifting, ridiculous weights and being super confident in themselves.

It was just like to me that was just transformational.

I think obviously there's a big factor about body composition and things like this, but the confidence element to it was absolutely so powerful.

But because I focused on that, I was getting guys for the same thing.

I didn't attract big dudes.

No one's going to come to me and say, can you get me strong?

He's like 10 foot tall and 6 foot 5 because he's the opposite of what I look like.

But what I was getting is people similar to me who maybe was a little bit nervous, a little bit Uncomfortable like guys, they would feel comfortable coming to me because I was targeting women and promoting the fact it's developing confidence and making yourself feel good and these types of things.

The guys were like, yeah, I can get on board with that.

So it's not being afraid to get too niche because if you are niche what you do is you will attract other similar people.

Yes.

It might not be a female who's 25 year old, has just started university or whatever it is, but it's like the psychographics.

It doesn't have to be demographics, it's a psychographics.

What kind of things are these people worried about?

Anxiety.

Like take for me example, I wasn't anxious about driving, I was excited.

Why couldn't you talk?

Why couldn't somebody target people like me?

17 year old kid who just wants to get behind the wheel of a car, wants to pass his test as fast as he can.

Right.

What's the parents going to do?

Parents with a little bit of money.

My kid wants to pass his test in six weeks.

Right.

I can do that.

That is your niche.

I don't know how you work that but that's my niche.

I get people pass the test in six weeks and we're super focused.

They're not anxious, they're just excited to get done.

You just created that niche you have because you're going to attract, you're not going to attract the 25 year old females who's nervous.

But if your marketing reflects that you will get those type of people in.

You might get a 25 year old female in who has a similar type of demographics, some type of psychographic.

She just wants to get past the test in six weeks.

It's like an offset isn't.

You create this little pool of people who you want to work with.

Look at the people who you are working with who excites you out of all those people for you you might love like what you said, 25 year old females who are anxious.

That's you love working with that person whereas somebody else might hate working with that person because they don't really find it interesting.

What they find interesting is I don't know little Doris who's in her 50s.

It's, it comes out back to your personality and the type of person you like to work with.

But I think again it's across any industry people become really resentful for what they're doing because they're trying to work with everybody.

And it just becomes a job.

It just becomes a job.

As opposed to, I'm the coach, I want to make people the best I can do.

I want to get that.

I want that person to sit in that car and have the best hour, two hours of their life to get out of it, walk away, and to walk back to us and say thank you for that.

If you can get someone to turn back around you and say thank you for that, you can go, do you know what it is?

I don't care what I charge because that's priceless to me.

It is anywhere.

That's, that's the excitement from your end, like you said, that's you then looking forward to your job.

That takes away the, the mundane, I can't say the word mundane, the mundaness of the job and you actually get out of bed and look forward to going to work.

And that don't mean that every lesson or every PT session or every training session is going to be amazing.

But you can go out attempting to make it amazing.

You can always develop that.

I do just want to touch back on what you were saying about the marketing aspect because again, the thing with instructors, a lot of people come to instructor from a whole wide variety of backgrounds.

So there's almost a lack of knowledge there in knowing how to promote yourself, how to go for a target audience.

Because the one thing you can't do is you can't go on Facebook and put I want to work with 17 year old boys.

That's, that's not going to work.

To get your target audience in, you have to be a bit more subtle than that.

So would you have any suggestions or tips for.

And again, I'm sure you pull from your own industry with this, but the way you would market to, to your.

Niche psychographics, it doesn't.

Again, I think a lot of people get focused on demographics like 25 year old female who has this, this and this, six kids and all that, blah, blah, blah.

Look at psychographics.

What's that person struggling with?

Like what is the, what is that person's biggest fear?

What does that person.

What is the biggest pain?

Again, two examples.

What was my biggest pain?

My biggest pain was having to sit and flip and learn how to drive for six months when I wanted to be done in six weeks.

That was my biggest pain.

Who can solve me that?

Who can solve that problem for me?

The driving instructor that I got solved that problem for me because he made sure I passed my Test in a specific length of time.

When I failed my test, he didn't wait another six months.

He pushed it and pushed it and pushed it, like up my test a couple of weeks later.

So I passed.

He went out of his way to do that.

So that was the difference, because he knew what my pain was.

Again, somebody who is nervous, you focus on the anxiety.

You focus on the struggles that they are facing.

So you focus.

You'd have to focus more.

You have to go into more depths of what that person's struggling with.

But it's the psychographics.

What's that person's biggest pain?

What are they struggling with?

Then solve that problem.

It's what it is, isn't it?

A lot of people get really focused.

It's like, what does an entrepreneur do?

An entrepreneur solves problems.

An entrepreneur solves problems.

Why did he get into business?

You get into business to solve the problem.

A lot of people jump into business because it's a job, and that's all it'll ever be.

All it'll ever be is a job.

But if you focus it from a different angle and say, well, actually, this is a business, I'm trying to solve a problem.

Okay, what problem are you trying to solve?

Get in the depths of that problem.

Okay, I want people to pass the test.

Okay, that's a start.

What kind of people do you want to pass the test?

Why do you want those people to pass the test?

You know, what kind of pains are they struggling?

What's keeping them awake at night?

Somebody who is going to have the first driving lesson the next day.

Do you think they're going to be sleeping like a baby the night before me?

I'm not going to be because I'm excited.

I can't wait to get in the car.

Somebody else is going to be sitting there panicking and thinking, what's it going to be like?

What's it going to be like?

Okay, what could you do then to really make that experience easy for that person?

You know, could you meet up with that person beforehand and have a word with them so they get to know you?

It's thinking outside the box.

Not just being instructor.

Be the coach.

What does that person need?

To me, I just need someone to open the door and get me in the car.

That was it.

Somebody else.

They might need that initial meeting in a coffee shop just to kind of break the ice a little bit.

They know who they're meeting.

They know what kind of car they're getting into.

Yes, it's a little bit more time but does that not make you stand out?

Are then people then not going to come to you because you take a little bit more attention, a little bit more focused?

Again, my driving instructor, I don't know what he had to do to get my test pushed forward, but he done it.

Maybe he had to stay up and on his phone for six hours or whatever it was, but he got me through my test, he solved my problem.

I think part of it is telling stories as well.

So I think when people think of marketing, again, I'm speaking for our industry primarily, but I'm sure that's a microsm of society.

But when people think of marketing, they think of paying for adverts.

And that's not what it's about.

I mean, it could be, could be Google adverts, adverts, social media, could get on radio or whatever.

But I think it's about talking about the things that matter to people.

So again, I'll give you this example.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this because this was one of my biggest success stories.

I usually use myself as a negative example, but I use a positive one here in I've seen another driving school and this isn't a criticism of them.

I've seen another driving school put a post on Facebook about, you will not pull up at side at roadievos.

If you do an hour lesson, you'll drive for 58 minutes of it.

It'll be solid driving.

There's no pulling up and discussion.

And I genuinely hate that.

But that was going for a niche and it was a very popular post.

They got a lot of comments, got a lot of interaction and my first thought was to sulk a little bit because I don't want to do that.

And then I'd sulk for a minute.

I thought, screw it, I'm going to do the opposite post.

And I did one talking about, you will pull up outside of me.

We will talk about what you've done, we will have this discussion.

And that is the single post has got me the most inquiries and customers because I addressed an issue that, that people had for my niche.

So I didn't go out there and do an advert or anything like that.

I spoke about something that I believed in and that and that attracted people.

You know, that was perfect disruption.

You create a disruption and that's what it's about, isn't it?

I actually had a call with the lady of the day.

Nothing to do with driving instruction or personal train.

Actually, she was, I think she was a recruiter.

She was A recruiter.

And she jumped on a call with us just for a specific reason.

What I did is she was in a Facebook group, one of the Facebook groups that I'm in.

And she was.

I introduced myself in this group.

Anyway, she says, oh, hey, oh, blah, blah, blah.

I'm such and such.

And says, oh, what do you do?

I was interested in what she'd done.

She said, I've done this and I'm trying to kind of change the industry around a little bit.

I was like, all right.

So I just commented, so you're trying to disrupt your industry.

And she just sent us one back saying, what do you mean?

She says, well, you want to be a disruptor because that's a good thing.

Right?

So anyway, we jumped on the corner.

She was like, I'm really interested.

What do you mean by this disruption?

I said, look, what do you want to do in your industry?

She says, well, it's getting done like this, right?

She says, and I don't agree with it.

Says, right, Then disrupt it.

What can you do differently?

Well, my business model is different.

Awesome.

Then promote that.

Why is your business model different?

Because I do it this way.

Because they do it that way and it doesn't work and this happens and these are the issues that they have.

So I do it this way and I know that it works.

Right.

Then promote that.

But what else can you promote?

What else makes it different?

And she was like, think of it.

Personality.

She said, I'm not like all these other recruiters with the pointy tail, with the pointy shoes and the straight trousers.

I just say it how it is.

Use that.

Like that's what disruption is.

It's not like being an air hole and slagging everybody off.

No, no.

I see how things are getting done.

I don't agree with that.

So I'm going to do it my way.

That's disruption.

Because then what you do is you create a void then.

And that's a good thing because what you do is you have your followers and they'll have their followers.

Yeah, it's not about kind of going to do battle in the middle of a field.

It's just saying, this is the way I do it.

I don't agree with that way.

And that's cool.

If you want to do that, because some people do do that, that's fine.

I do it this way because of this reason.

And then you can tell the people who you want to work with, this is why I do it this way.

And again, it's why you do it.

That way, then you can delve really deep into your story.

Because when I was doing my test or when I was a driving instructor, these are the things that I was having.

Share your story, share your experiences, share your pains, because then you relate to those same types of people that you want to work with.

This is the thing.

If you're trying to work with everybody, then how can you relate to that person?

You cannot.

But if you start telling your story and tell people why you're doing things your way, then you're going to repel the people who don't want to work with you, which is great, because they're not going to drain your energy then, but you're going to attract the people who do want to work with you, and they're going to give you energy, and that's the difference, makes you stand out.

Yeah.

And I think that there are some really, really good driving instructors and business owners and entrepreneurs within our community who are doing that.

Whether it's leading by example for their coaching, or whether it's electric cars or whether it's marketing, however, it's trying to come away from the franchise model.

They've taken something they believe in and they're running with it, and people gradually follow.

So what would you say to someone, an instructor listening to this now, who is, whether in a franchise or they're independent, but they've got an idea, there's something they believe in, there's something they want to run with, they want to disrupt, they want to start a movement, but they're too scared to do it for whatever reason, whether people say, or just being seen or whatever.

What.

What would you say to that instructor?

You just got to do it.

Like, seriously, you just got to do it.

There's nothing worse than we are.

Five, ten years down the line.

And then imagine, Imagine how you'd feel if someone else came up and they'd done it before you and you, like, man, but that was my idea.

But you were too scared to step forward.

And it's.

Yes, it's easier said than done, but you just gotta.

You just gotta stand up and do it.

Find ways that you can do it.

Start putting posts out.

Get into Terry's podcast.

You know what I mean?

Like, these are the things.

It's like.

It's, think outside the box.

How can I get my message out there?

That's all it is, isn't it?

It's a message.

Yeah.

I've got my message, and I'm doing that through various ways.

I'm on Clubhouse, I'm on I do stuff on Instagram, Stories I do.

You know, I just find different ways to get my message.

I'll go on Facebook and I'll do some lives on Facebook.

Do you know what?

Not everybody's going to like it.

In fact, that's cool.

But if one person likes it, then say, oh, I want to something here.

And then that person turns to two people, to three people, to 10 people.

All of a sudden, people are starting to listen to you.

That's the thing.

You've just got to stand up and do it.

And I know it's easier said than done, but you do have to just do it.

You just got to think, you know, what?

What's the cost?

What's the cost of not doing it?

To the cost of doing it?

Because if you never, ever try it, how will you ever know?

Why don't you just do it?

And if it doesn't work, so what?

Then try something else.

Do something else.

It's the fear of.

It's like, well, no, but if I do this, and then, you know, they'll think like this, and that person will think like that, and then I'll be.

So what would that person thinks?

Is that person paying your bills?

Is that person looking after the kids?

Is that person putting table?

No.

So stop worrying about what that person thinks and start worrying about what you think and what you want to do.

Change the way you think.

Change where?

Stop looking at all of this social oppression and just think, what do I want to do?

What do I want?

What do I believe in?

And I'm just going to do it.

What's the worst that can happen?

Like, seriously, what's the worst that can happen?

Oh, I mean, there's a reason why this podcast is 11 episodes long, because it gives me a chance to evaluate whether it's worked or not.

If I get to the end of episode 11 and they're all out there and no one's listening and it's negative feedback and no one likes it.

Well, guess what?

There's no season two.

But I've learned that you come away from it with a learn and you come back and do something different.

But like you said, it's trying something and not being afraid to try it.

And you mentioned someone else that I felt quite key there in growing, you know, Slowly, you know, one person, two person, 10 people.

And on your podcast, which is it called the Genius podcast, is it your genius?

Your genius, something that you speak about on there at least mention was growth.

And I think that's quite key.

We can't expect immediate success overnight.

We're looking for growth.

Yeah, it's such a growth.

So slow.

It is, it's so slow.

But you have to start somewhere because you've got to kind of look at yourself and think, hey, what am I doing now?

Is this pushing me forward or am I just staying the same?

If you keep on doing the things that you've always done and expecting a different result, it's just insanity, isn't it?

So you've always got to adapt, you've always got to change, you've always got to look to change what you're doing.

And if you're stuck in this mindset of, well, I kind of just got to do what everybody else does and you're just a sheep.

And if you want to be a sheep, that's fine if that's what you want to do.

But if you actually want to change your lifestyle, you know, why, why do, why do driving instructors get into it?

They get into it because they just want a job or do they get into it because.

I can't answer this, I'm just, I'm not asking you now why, why did you get into it?

For me, there was a couple of reasons.

One was the self employed aspect.

So I was my own boss.

I didn't want to answer to other people.

The second was being able to choose my own hours because I didn't want to work all the hours on nuts on anymore.

But then I did anyway.

But you know, and then the third.

Yeah, and the third is I love working with people in small groups.

You know, I presented before to large groups to enjoy it, but I don't like that.

I like the interaction of one to a few people and that they were the big reasons behind me becoming an instructor.

So the two biggest reasons there.

Exactly what you said.

People don't like working for people.

Generally there's a reason why people go from employment to business because they're different.

They don't want that employment status.

Some people do.

Some people love the security, they want to be there, that's fine.

But the people who don't, they want the freedom not to have a bus and they want to be able to work the hours that they want to work and want to earn some money as well.

They want to earn some good money.

All right.

But if you're just following everybody else and doing what they're doing, you're essentially just still in the job, aren't you?

You've just created yourself a job and you're just following everybody else.

So if you're going to do your own business.

Why not be you like you?

You are the business.

You can do whatever you want with that.

You don't have to justify yourself to anybody.

It's your business.

Do what the hell you want to do, as long as you're not hurting anybody in the process.

You know, if you're kind of killing people and you're driving, then, yeah, you've probably got a bit of an issue there.

But if you're getting people through the test and then people are coming back, or certainly the friends are coming back to you and you're actually doing a really good job, you enjoy what you're doing.

That's what it's about, isn't it?

So do you want to stay the same and never grow, or do you want to just veer off and say, joe, I want to grow.

How am I going to grow?

What strategies do I need to put in place?

And it starts with him.

It starts with the person.

And, yeah, I'm just so big on growth because I think a lot of people look at growth and say, well, I have to do everything tomorrow.

Say, no, just start something today.

It could be anything.

Maybe you really struggle to put stuff out on Facebook, Start putting a post out on Facebook, just tell people what you're doing, tell people why you're different.

And then, you know, you start adding little bits, like a compound effect, or do 1%, something like 1% increase every day, and that compounds over time, like you said.

I mean, how long did you put off doing a podcast for?

Well, so it's not released at the moment.

We're recording.

It's not released, and I've been talking about it for about a week.

Yeah, and how many episodes have you done?

This is episode four that I'm recording, and I say it's not released yet.

And I'm already getting people inquiring to come on to season two.

Exactly.

So it's compounding, isn't it?

Imagine if you just imagine if you were still sitting there now going, well, I don't know what it'll be like.

I don't know, maybe it'll be crap.

Maybe there's nobody listening to it.

It's like, maybe she's the wound, but so what?

At least he can gain a goal.

Well, that didn't work.

What can I try now?

We'll try something else.

It's, you know, it just.

That's the thing.

That's what growth is.

Growth isn't about waking up one day and having everything that you want.

It's like, this is what I want, this is the lifestyle I'm trying to achieve.

How am I going to do that?

Well, you've got to stand out, you've got to be different, especially in the world that we're in now.

You know, if it was 40, 50 years ago, that was different.

Now it's not.

You have to be different.

And how many driving instructors are on the road now compared to what there was 10 years ago, it's probably doubled.

I don't know the figures, but I imagine it's gone up quite quickly.

You know, look at the personal training world, it's absolutely saturated.

But that doesn't mean that you can't make it.

This is why you've got to stand out.

This is why you've got to be different.

This is why you have to have something that other people aren't offering.

And that's what growth is, because you're always looking at how you can change, how you can adapt, how you can make things better.

It's, again, it's interesting, the comment you made there about the growth of driving instructors and the number of driving instructors.

At the minute, there's about half a million people in backlog for driving tests.

So the demand for instructors is massively outweighing supply.

Now, this is, in my opinion, this has created two situations.

The first one being that there's an opportunity for people to change.

Now, is that perfect opportunity because we're not going to be short on customers, no one is going to be shot on customers for a year.

It's.

It's virtually impossible for that to be the case right now.

So this is an opportunity for you to experiment.

It's an opportunity to.

Right, well, let's put my price up by a pound an hour, five pound.

Now, whatever.

Let's try this different technique of coaching, let's try this bit of promotion, whatever.

It's an opportunity to experiment for that.

But the second thing, there's more and more people becoming driving instructors because that demand is high.

In 18 months, that's going to swap around.

In 18 months, the supply is going to go back to what it was, but the number of driving instructors is going to be higher.

So if you're not doing Anything different in 18 months, you are going to be struggling and I'd love to hear your thoughts on that about what?

Again, not necessarily specific ideas for the industry, but what generally people could be doing differently now to get ready for 18 months when that swaps round and supply outweighs demand.

Collaboration.

How many driving instructors collaborate with each Other, there's so much work out there.

Why do you need.

I mean, I don't know, is it a bit of a fight in the industry or is it the case that people actually do come together?

It's a bit of both.

There's.

There's a lot of infighting within the industry, within every facet.

So this podcast here, there will be people that are annoyed at this podcast because you're talking about development and you're talking about doing something different, and there will be people that are annoyed at that and there'll be people that love it.

The other, again, I mentioned some other podcasts.

One, on coaching, there are people that refuse wholeheartedly to do anything coach related.

I'm going to instruct, I'm not going to coach.

So there are divisions there, but there's also little tribes within that, which is again bringing it back to me for a second.

It's all about me.

This podcast today, that's what this podcast is about.

I'm aiming to bring some of those tribes together and bring some more people with it.

So, yeah, I think that's probably a good shout collaboration, trying getting more people to work together.

Yeah, I mean, if you think about it, if you, if thing is, you're never going to change everybody's mind.

There's always going to be those and there's always going to be those, which is fine.

But like, imagine if you bring a lot of people together who think, you know, I like the way Terry's thinking, he's really forward thinking and he's bringing these people on his podcast and I can see, yeah, I can see where he's going with that.

Then why can't you all come together and collaborate in some way?

And then even if it was just like a group of a small group of years and thinking, Jordan, we could get our heads together and we could.

Maybe you're not, you know, you're not trying to like, say, maybe join forces as a business as such, but it's just kind of what ideas could be put into a pot, you know, get those guys on your podcast and come up with some ideas between, you know, what kind of people do you like working with?

Well, I like working with these types of people.

I like working these types of people that's helping each other.

You know, imagine you get somebody like me come want to work with you, and you're like, well, actually, I'd rather you went and worked with Dave.

This is what Dave specializes in.

You're giving Dave custom then?

Yeah, because, you know, Dave specializes with 17 to 19 year old guys.

Yeah.

Then Dave gets a 25 year old female and he sends that female over to you.

That's what collaboration is.

And it's like, it's bigging each other up, it's helping each other out and not fighting.

They're not competing on price.

It's this is who I work with.

And then any one person that wants to come work with me, they'll come and work with me because I know Dave and Simon and Jessica will send those people over to me because they know that I do that.

And I think people are just so focused on competition and there's no competition, it's only competition if you make a competition, make a collaboration.

You know, thing is, if you lose out on a client, then you get that back down the line.

A year down the line, Dave might send you 10 clients your way because you give him that one client a year ago.

But you're like, well, I want all the clients and they'll take that client.

And even though you don't want to work with them because you're just taking the sake of taking them, then you piss Dave off.

But then Dave's never going to send anything your way.

That's the thing, that's what collaboration is.

It's just looking out for each other and saying, we're driving instructors, we've got all these experiences.

How can we help each other?

How can we help each other get better?

To me, that's what it's all about.

That actually ties into another point I was going to raise with you because another big resistance within our industry is something we first started speaking about on this podcast of personal development and growth.

And there's a lot of resistance to that.

Again, there's a lot of old school mindsets, not everyone.

And again, they simply criticized every instructor.

But there's a lot there that are quite vocal and quite prominent.

Why should we change?

And then there's a next step which is why should we pay for that?

Why should I pay for that?

And I think this is a good question to raise Ru, because as you said, your, you are a high performance coach.

People come to you and pay you for coaching.

Now, I know you said you specialize in personal trainers, I believe you said, but I'm fairly confident you would happily take inquiries from anyone listening now if anyone had to come and work with you.

But there'll be a lot of people that will and do take the approach, why should I pay for this?

How would you respond to that question?

I would switch the question to why should anyone pay for you to drive instructions?

Can you answer that?

Could that drive us?

Could that person ask then?

Well, because I know that I can get that person through the test better than what anybody else can.

Awesome.

Well, I know that I can make you the best person you possibly can be.

That's the difference.

People don't look at the development, they never do.

They're just always upskilling.

Well, I need to get better at doing this, need to get better at doing that.

That's fine.

Are you development, Are you a high performer?

Are you actually performing at your best level?

Do you have the income that you want?

Do you have the hours?

Are you working?

Are you working too many hours?

If you're working too many hours, you're undercharging.

Then you need to work on your development.

That has nothing to do with the skills that you're going to require.

You need to work on your development because when you're too scared to put your prices up, you're too scared to actually venture out of your comfort zone and be different.

Yeah, you need to develop the courage.

You need to develop your confidence.

Maybe just some imposter syndrome there.

And again, have you ever heard it done?

It rings a bell, but I don't think I've.

The fifty Million Dollar Man.

Yeah, I've watched few videos than him and I watched his video and he was just, honestly, he was beetroot ready.

Was just like personal developments fake.

And Napoleon Hill just.

It was a massive.

Napoleon Hill had read his book Think and Grow Rich.

It was well before its time.

And Andrew Carnegie was a Scotch steel magnet and he basically gave his secrets away and he interviewed people like Henry Ford and Thomas Edison.

There was loads of interviews done on this thing and it all came down to personal development.

And Dan Penzer was like, ah, it's a massive fake.

And it's like, blah, blah, blah.

And he's actually going bright red on this video.

He was just so angry about personal development.

And I was kind of sitting there and thinking, Dan Penzer is one of these people who probably doesn't need personal development because he just has that natural ability to be resilient, tenacious and just to get what he wants.

Some people are like that, you know, some people are naturally like that.

99% of people aren't like, I'm not.

The more I've got to work on us, I have to work on courage.

I've got to work on tenacity, I've got to work on getting outside my comfort zone.

It doesn't come natural to me.

It doesn't come natural to most people.

We're seeing our comfort zones.

That's where development comes in.

So anyone who says that development is not worth it or they don't value it, then I'd question them to look at where they're at and say, do you have the lifestyle you want now?

Do you have everything in your life that you want?

If you can say that, yes, awesome.

You don't need development.

But if there's anything in your life that you think I need work on, you need development work.

And I would say 99% of people need development work.

It's just admitting that and being open to and see, how could I develop?

Like, how could I get better productivity?

That's development.

Be more courageous.

That's development.

Working on your purpose.

What's your purpose?

Do you have that vision?

Do you know what your vision is?

Do you know what your purpose is in life?

This is coming from me, who had no purpose.

I ran a business for five years and I had no purpose.

My purpose was completely skewed.

But guess what happened when I changed that?

My life changed.

When I start working towards my purpose, I start developing.

What am I actually working for?

Why am I doing this?

That's when things changed.

Guess what?

That's development.

You know, I think a lot of people miss that.

They're thinking just someone's gonna delve into my brain and tell me all the bad things that I've done in my life and, you know, go back to childhood memories and things.

And yes, that's more therapy.

And guess what?

People need that.

But when we talk about personal development, personal development's different.

Personal development's like, okay, I want to take you where you're at and want to take you here.

If you want to move up to the next level, you could be the most successful entrepreneur in the world.

But guess what?

If you work on your development, you're going to go up another level.

And that's the thing.

Do you want to stay where you're at or do you want to move up?

If you want to move up and you have to work on your development, and to me, that's where it lies.

I think, again, you've hit the nail on the head there.

18 months or years ago, I was very, very stubborn, ignorant, naive towards personal development.

And again, like I said, that comes from my background, from family, from the friends I surround myself in, from the Environment I've been in at workplace, and from the environment I was in work at the time, I've massively changed my circle.

I call it my little spider web now.

And I'm in the middle.

I've got all these awesome people coming off it.

I surround myself with.

But it took a lot of personal development to get me there.

And just to get to a point where I can record a podcast or when I can have the confidence to actually say to someone who I consider quite impressive, such as yourself, will you come and speak on my podcast, please?

Like I said, without that personal development two years ago, that doesn't happen.

So I think you really need to hit the nail on the head there.

Two years ago, I wasn't happy.

I probably would have told people I was, you know, but I wasn't.

I think if you can look at yourself and genuinely say, yeah, this is me, I'm happy.

And this brilliant, you know, awesome.

If you are happy where you are, then that's phenomenal.

That's where you should be.

But if you're not, that's where you need to look at personal development.

So, yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

Yeah, you've.

You do lives and you do your podcast and think.

But how does that.

How do you feel at the end of it?

Like, when you've done a podcast, how would you feel at the end of it?

I'm buzzing.

It's.

It's genuinely the best feeling.

And I think that comes from two things.

I think one is that I've done something that I wouldn't have had the confidence to do.

Says a sense of pride there.

But also I feel like I'm.

Well, I'm enjoying something, and that's a big part of it as well.

Which, again, I wouldn't have had the confidence to do.

Yeah, exactly.

So imagine if you'd never taken that step.

Imagine if you were still sitting there going, oh, man, I just feel so.

I haven't got the confidence to do it.

And you just thought, you know what?

I'm just gonna do it.

I'm just literally gonna pull my phone off and I'm just gonna press, go live.

It's liberating, isn't it?

And that's the thing.

It's that doing those things that make you uncomfortable.

Like, sometimes people need a push to do that.

Like, it's easy to say, yeah, just press live on you.

Maybe you need some more coaching or whatever it is around that, or some encouragement to do it.

But then once you've done that.

And you get past that kind of stumbling block, you start getting confidence.

You don't become super confident.

You just think, that wasn't so bad, I didn't die.

So then you do it again, and then you do it again and you develop your confidence.

And that's what development is like.

That is what development is.

It's doing these things that's progressing you.

It's giving you personal growth.

That's the thing is, you know, again, I've asked that person, do you work on your personal growth?

You don't have to look at it as personal development.

I think the term, like self care and personal development, people look at it and think, that's why I do personal performance.

I just say it's personal performance.

So, yes, it's personal development.

I say personal performance because I want you to perform at a higher level.

Like, I want you to go on Facebook and do lives because I know it's gonna be better for your business.

I want you to do a podcast because I know that it's gonna be better for your business.

I want you to be different and stand out, get your message out there.

Because when you do that, it's going to be better for your business and it's going to be better for your life.

That's the thing.

It's like, it's performance.

You don't want to think of it as development.

Think of it as performance.

Yeah, I like that.

So, last couple of questions I mentioned before about the.

I've said this word a few times, actually.

Fear.

It's a fear I had fear of going live.

And I think that a lot of it is fear of what people might say, not just within the driving industry.

Although, like I said, there's a lot of bitchiness and negativity around there.

But you're putting some on public.

So use a Facebook example.

Whether it's a live or a video or a post, you're putting some out there for people to see that they can criticize.

I'm.

I get a surprising amount of stick for someone who puts a pose of saying, please don't kill people when you're driving.

I get a surprising amount of stick for that.

But there is that fear by people.

That's something that's going to put people off.

What advice would you give to anyone that's worried about the negativity they might receive?

I always ask anybody who's negative against anybody else, they have bigger issues.

Like, seriously, anybody who's doing something good, they're not going to be scrutinized by someone else who's doing good as well.

If anything, they're going to be applauded.

All right.

People who create negativity, the people who are jealous, the people who are looking at them think, well, yeah, that's it.

That's why people troll.

That's why people create negativity because they've got issues in their own life, they're not living with purpose in their own life.

They're not having the achievements that they want in their own life.

So they look at somebody else who's doing better.

It's jealousy.

They see what you're doing and think, well, I'm going to say something here.

Yeah, so what if you say, you know, don't kill anybody.

Yeah, it's a bit of fun, isn't it?

Seriously, don't kill anybody because you're going to get struck off.

It's like, yeah, have a bit of fun with it.

And that's what it is.

It's having a bit of fun.

And you get the people who are probably too serious, but they're the people who are never going to grow.

They're the people who are so fixed minded that they're not going to.

Anybody who's grown, anybody's going to develop is going to look at your comment and go, yeah, I like that bit of humor there.

So anyone who's worried about the fear side of it, understand that anybody who creates negativity or start trolling you, it's because they're jealous of what you're doing.

Yeah, nobody who, anybody who's trying to better themselves are never going to be scrutinized by anybody who's above them.

And I think that's one of our biggest fears.

We think, well, that person's up there and they're going to see what I'm doing, they're going to think I'm a loser.

Do you know what is?

They're not.

What they're going to do is they're going to applaud you and say, yeah, okay, it wasn't 100% correct, but you know what it is?

I can see what you're doing.

That's awesome.

Keep on going.

Because I know how hard it is down there.

It's the people down here who trolls and who create the negativity.

I think it's just remembering that.

Yeah, I would agree with that.

I've agreed with a lot of what you've said today.

All right, so the last question I'm going to ask you if, and I'm asking this to everyone by the way if you could give one tip, one piece of advice to driving instructors or training instructors or people in this industry, what tip or piece of advice would you offer us right now?

You are the biggest asset in your life and in your business.

If you're not working on yourself, then everything around you is going to go to shit.

You are the biggest asset.

I say this to everybody.

When people understand that they're the biggest assets in the business, when they're working on the health, the personal development or the mindset, the lifestyle relationships, the working on these things, life just gets better.

It does.

You know, if you can be healthier, your life's going to get better.

If you can get more sleep, your life's going to be better.

If you can be more courageous, your life's going to be better.

Make you the asset.

Stop focusing on everybody else and everything else, yes, they're important, but put yourself first.

Okay, so that feels like a perfect point to end there.

So the last thing I'm going to say is where can people find you?

Is there anything you want to promote at the minute?

We found on Facebook, it's just kiwotherspoon Coach, I think it is.

And then Instagram.

I'll send you the links.

You can put the links in the.

In the show notes.

Yeah.

Website is kwotherspoon.com@theminute.

I'm going to be.

Well, I'm going to be launching a program soon at the minute.

I'm in the process of actually developing that.

Yeah.

So that's.

That's kind of it, really.

That's.

That's where I'm at.

That's what you can find us.

Awesome.

Well, it's been a pleasure having you on today.

It's been fascinating.

So thank you very much for giving us your time.

It's been a pleasure.

Terry.

Enjoy this.

Thank you.

Yeah.

And take care and stay safe.

And as we finish this lockdown or once every.

Just coming to an end, so stay as safe as you can.

You too.

Thank you very much.

So big thank you to Kia there for, for joining me.

I thought the big thing I'm taking away from this episode is actually the, the passion and the enthusiasm that Kia's got for development.

Not just other people's, not just helping other people's, but people's, but actually for himself as well.

And I just found that when you hear someone talk about it like that and talk about overcoming your own fears and overcoming the.

The concerns you've got and actually looking to build yourself and become a better you, I don't understand how you can't get excited by that.

You know I'm a big advocate and you heard me say a few times in the podcast there, I've invested time and money and energy into becoming the person I want to be.

And if, if you're completely happy with the way you are now, then that's fantastic.

Genuinely is.

I'm really happy for you.

But I've got a sneaking suspicion that most of them are.

I'm still not where I want to be.

So yeah, I'm a big believer in this and I appreciate K coming on.

Make sure I give him a follow.

He's live all the time.

Make sure you check his podcast out.

That's really motivational, insightful too.

So yeah, appreciate coming on and big shout outs to care there.

So thank you for listening today.

If you've enjoyed this podcast, make sure you click subscribe wherever you're listening so that the next one will drop straight into your podcast feed.

If you want to get in touch with Usha, head over at TCDrive Co UK can get in touch with me by any method over there.

And remember, let's just keep raising standards and stay safe.