God uses people with all kinds of different backgrounds, skills, and experiences. Wherever we live and work, He invites us to be part of His mission. We all have a role to play in bringing the good news of eternal life in the Messiah Yeshua to all the world.

In this episode, we interview Tom and JoAnn Doyle. They founded Uncharted Ministries, an organization that focuses on making disciples among Jewish and Arab people in the Middle East. We discuss topics including:

·     What is a disciple?

·     Are we all called to ministry?

·     How can we make disciples among our family and friends?

·     How can we encourage believers who are facing persecution?  

- [Nicole] Welcome to Our Hope,

a production of Chosen People Ministries.

On this podcast,

you will hear inspiring testimonies,

learn about Messianic apologetics,

and discover God's plan for Israel and you.

Wherever you're listening,

we hope you lean in, listen closely, and be blessed.

(upbeat music)

And Jesus came up and spoke to them saying,

"all authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth.

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,

baptizing them in the name of

the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Teaching them to observe all that I commanded you."

Matthew 28 versus 18 to 20.

After his resurrection, Jesus commanded his disciples

to remember their authority in him

and go forth to make disciples, discipling all the nations.

Followers of Yeshua today,

still see this as an important command.

But how do we make disciples wherever we are in life?

In this episode,

we learn what it means to be a disciple of Yeshua

and why we are called to make disciples.

Joining us are friends of Chosen People Ministries,

Tom and JoAnn Doyle,

the founders of Uncharted Ministries.

Their ministry actively shares the gospel

with Jewish and Arab people in the Middle East

and disciples them to further share the gospel with others.

I now introduce the host of Our Hope Podcast, Abe Vasquez.

- [Abe] Welcome back everyone

to our last show of the season.

I'm so excited to be with you

and I'm even more excited to introduce our guests.

These are two of my favorite people in the world

because they are just a joy and a light to be around.

You can just sense their relationship

with God when you're next to them.

Like it's amazing.

And so I'm just excited for everyone

to hear from Tom and JoAnn Doyle.

Tom and Joan, thank you so much

for being willing to be a part of this episode.

- [JoAnn] Abe, Nicole, thank you.

It is such a joy to be with you.

And what a sweet welcoming, thank you.

- [Tom] My goodness, yes.

We feel like we're part of the family, thank you.

- [Abe] So you both travel a lot,

so I'm sure you've tried

many different foods around the world.

What would you say?

What would you, for for both of you?

What is your favorite food?

- [JoAnn] Gosh, that's a hard question

for me to answer cause I love food.

So I have to say probably

my favorite food is Italian food.

And it's interesting, no matter where we go in the world,

we go throughout the Middle East,

we've been in all different places.

Everyone's familiar with Italian food.

- [Tom] That's right, so JoAnn's Italian,

her family's from Sicily and I'm Irish.

And so we eat bread.

That's about it really, and potatoes.

If I had to pick a ethnic food, oh my gosh, it's Italian.

- [JoAnn] So when we were just in Jordan last week.

Well, no, this week, I guess.

And one of the lunches we had pizza

and it was really good pizza.

- [Abe] Pizza knows no boundaries

- [JoAnn] How about you?

- [Abe] Oh my, well, I have Celiac disease,

so I can't have bread and pizza.

But before that it was pizza.

A good New York slice of pizza.

- [JoAnn] Oh, that's awesome.

How about you Nicole?

- [Nicole] Well, I have Crohn's disease,

so I can't have gluten either.

So I used to love a great New York slice of pizza

and now I just eat like grilled chicken

and steamed vegetables and stuff.

- [Abe] We have another podcast called our gut.

We just talk about our gut issues.

(all laughing)

- [Tom] Yeah, really?

Oh my gosh, for sure.

- [Nicole] Coming soon.

- [Abe] Well, Tom and JoAnn,

so tell us a little bit about

your work with Uncharted Ministries.

- [Tom] So gosh, we started going

to the Middle East in 1995,

just leading Bible tours to Israel and then God called us.

I was a pastor for about 20 years

and God called us to become missionaries in the Middle East.

And we started working in Israel,

started working in the other Middle Eastern countries.

Our heart was with Jewish people, for sure.

And God called us to leave and go and start working.

So we would go back and forth

and work in Israel and also Israel's neighbors.

And we weren't really ready for that.

But after 9/11, God called us, made it clear

that this was a great opening in the Muslim world too.

So God's given us a love for Jews and Muslims.

And so, yeah.

- [JoAnn] In fact, one of the things the Lord said to us

when we first started working full time

in the Middle East is he said,

"I want you to love the Jewish people

and the nation of Israel

by reaching her neighbors with the love of Jesus."

And so again, we really thought that predominantly

we were going to be working with the Jewish people.

We love working with the Holocaust survivors

and they're so precious, precious dear souls

to have been through so much hurt and heartache.

And we have a always felt so honored

when we're in their presence.

For all that they've endured

that we can enter into their suffering, so to speak.

And we recognize that they'll only be with us

a few more years, since they're older,

before they'll be gone.

And so it's been an honor for us to do that.

So when Jesus said,

"I want you to start working now with Israel's neighbors."

That was a little bit of a surprise for us.

- [Tom] Challenging. - [JoAnn] Challenging, yeah.

But been amazing to see that reconciliation

can happen in the Messiah.

- [Tom] That's for sure.

- [Nicole] And it's been awesome

to hear the testimonies coming out of the Middle East

and heard some of those stories during our 9/11 conference

and I was just awed by some of them.

And we know that you weren't always

serving in the Middle East though.

So what were you doing

before you started Uncharted Ministries

and how did you recognize that call

and make that transition?

- [Tom] Thank you, well, being a pastor,

we kept doing Bible tours.

I actually became a licensed guide for Israel.

But then in 2001,

a couple of months before 9/11 happened,

we were there in a Bible tour.

All six of our children were with us

and God was doing something in our heart

and it was much more than just looking at the archeology.

We obviously loved studying the Bible and location,

but we started looking around at the people

and I think what was shocking for us

was to see this is kind of the epicenter of religion,

but there just wasn't a lot of Jesus around there

when it came to to Jewish people or Arab people.

And God just had a call in our life to go.

And we really didn't know what we were doing.

A ministry asked us to lead the Middle East work.

And we were kind of building the airplane

as we were flying it.

And then a few years ago, God called us to start Uncharted.

And that's about reaching the unreached

and standing with the persecuted.

And so those are of the things we do.

So evangelism, church planting, large team discipleship

all around the Middle East national leaders.

That's what we do.

And then bring in teams when it's appropriate.

When it will not expose them

and cause problems for them, we bring in teams.

Women's teams, medical teams, sports teams, whatever.

But yeah, that's how it started.

- [Abe] That's awesome.

So help us with, I guess the topic of this episode.

Let's start here.

What is a disciple?

How would you define a disciple?

- [JoAnn] Yeah, a disciple is someone, so many definitions.

There's the formal definition.

But to me personally, a disciple is someone

that follows the leader.

And, of course, our leader is Jesus Messiah, Yeshua.

And so as a disciple, I want to learn

to live my life as he lived his life.

And I want to follow the directions that he gives me.

And so many of those directions are found the Bible.

And so as a disciple,

I want to learn everything that my teacher has taught me

through that manual, the Bible.

And then I want to take what I've learned

and not just make it knowledge in my head,

but to live it out in my life.

And as I live it out,

that is also walking along the path

and people that I meet along the way,

sharing this exciting truth with them

so that they too can be invited

into this discipleship process of meeting Messiah.

Meeting Jesus, as savior as Lord,

and then living their life in the same way.

So that's a disciple, making a disciple,

who will make a disciple.

I don't know if that's a good definition,

but that's how my heart reads.

- [Tom] Yeah, and we learned

it was vastly different in the Middle East.

I mean, being a senior pastor,

we wanted all of our people that were in the church

that were believers to be discipled.

And so we had a course and we did training in that.

It was a once week thing.

We encouraged them to be in small groups

and obviously in church and that.

And then we got to the Middle East and we found,

we just needed to erase the Blackboard and start over.

And when it came to Muslims, coming to faith in Christ,

never forget what a young man Mohamed said to me.

He said, "Tom, we were steeped in a religion.

It was a false religion.

And so meeting once a week, doesn't cut it with us.

We meet six days a week because our whole thinking,

our whole history comes from something

that is not from the Bible, and not truth

and so we just have to have,

we need to be transformed our whole mind."

And so six days a week in discipleship,

former Muslims walking with Jesus.

And I think that may be the reason

why we see so many of them are willing to die for Jesus.

And when they come to faith,

and I think also there's an acid test

because Jesus said, quoted Deuteronomy six to Shamar,

"love the Lord your God with all your hearts, soul

and strength and love your neighbor as yourself."

Well, with these former Muslims,

would they be able to love Jews?

Is it so ingrained in them that they can't get over that?

And as we talked with former Muslims, they said,

"we learned to hate Jews in the crib."

It's just, in fact,-

- [JoAnn] That's what they are taught

even if they've never met a Jew.

- [Tom] Yeah, just being in Jordan,

we just heard it this week in a school,

Christian kids were saying,

what a struggle it was because the teacher said,

do you hate Jews?

Going around the class, yes, I do.

This is just normal.

So what happens when they come to Jesus?

One of the little kids said,

"I don't hate anyone."

And that was like shocking.

- [JoAnn] Seven year old boy was asked,

"do you hate the Jews?"

And he said, "no, I don't hate the Jews.

I don't hate anyone, I love them."

And then he came home from school,

excuse me, as I'm interrupting you.

So he came home from school and he said, mama,

"how do I answer this question?"

Because when everyone says they hate the Jews

and I say, no, I don't.

He said, they look down on me.

What do I do?

And she said, what you say is, no,

what you said is true.

I don't hate the Jews.

I don't hate anyone, but I do hate war.

- [Abe] That's awesome.

- [JoAnn] And that switch the whole playing field.

But can you imagine for these people,

these young kids growing up in a country

where they're taught to hate Jews,

even if they've never met one before.

- [Tom] That's all they've known.

So this young man in the Gaza strip said the same thing.

Name is Wayel, I've always been taught,

this is wrong, I hate Jews.

And when IDF came in he used to throw rocks at them

all that kind of-

So when he came to faith in Christ,

he read the Bible and I just love this.

He said, "I decided I wanted to be a full disciple."

And I said, "a full disciple?"

Yeah, I want to do every single thing

Jesus told us to do in the Bible.

I didn't want to just pick and choose

the things I feel comfortable with.

And Jesus said, love your enemy.

And he said, for me that was easy,

was right over the fence.

It was the Jews.

So I prayed.

It was the state of Israel.

Lord, I don't want to hate them.

Please forgive me.

Take away that hate.

And he said, "I expected that God would give me

a tolerance for them."

He said, "I found myself filling

my heart full of love for the Jews.

And when rocket attacks

were going into Israel from Hamas,

I found myself praying for Jews."

And I just had an incredible love for them.

And you know what?

We know that Yeshua

is the Middle East peace process right there.

That's what it is.

That the UN will not pull that off.

Can't change your mind.

Can't make you love someone you don't love.

He said, "Jesus, he didn't give me a tolerance,

he gave me a love for Jewish people."

Now, when he's in Israel,

the conversations he has with rabbis about,

I used to hate you.

I was a Muslim from Gaza.

This what Jesus did.

He's Jewish, by the way, Yeshua did it-

And he shares the gospel.

- [Abe] Amazing, wow.

- [Nicole] We'll be right back.

- [Nicole] During these difficult times,

we know how hard is to hold on to hope.

And we want you to know

that Chosen People Ministries is here for you.

If you have any prayer request,

our prayer team is standing by to receive them.

You can submit your request at chosenpeople.com/pray.

Again, that's chosenpeople.com/pray.

- [Mitch] Shalom, this is Mitch Glazer

with Chosen People Ministries.

I know that you're concerned

about what's happening in the Ukraine right now.

Russia has been on the attack and it seems unrelenting.

So many people are suffering.

And among that group of people who are suffering

are well over 200,000 Ukrainian Jewish people.

We've already sent aid, food, water, all sorts of materials

as well as chosen people missionaries

to the border between Ukraine and Poland.

And we're having an active ministry there right now.

We're also in touch with the 10 or 12 congregations

that we work with in Ukraine itself.

And we've been sending in a little bit of funding

where we can get it in,

but keeping in touch with them.

So please pray for the Ukraine

and for Chosen People Ministries.

- [Abe] We often hear people say,

they are not called to be missionaries or be in ministry,

sort of like what you're are doing.

But in reading first Corinthians 12 through 14,

it does look like God uses everyone in the church

and he gives each person unique gifts.

How would you say we are called to ministry wherever we are?

- [JoAnn] Well, yes, I love that

because God has given each one of us spiritual gifts.

And I find in my own love, the older I get,

I've known Jesus for over 45 years now,

the more I continue in my walk with Jesus

I've noticed some of those gifts increase

or they're seasonal.

One gift that maybe I have when I was younger,

I still have that gift, of course.

But God has brought other gifts in that I use

in a greater way.

So that part fun seeing those gifts increase.

So God wants us to use whatever that gift is for his glory,

but also to bring people to faith in Christ.

Because I believe that God has called

all of us to be missionaries.

You began reading, I believe Nicole,

from Matthew 28 in the beginning

and told us to go make disciples of all nations.

That was to all of us.

To the body of Christ.

So we're all missionaries.

Maybe not by trade, maybe not by profession,

but by relationship to our savior,

all of us are called to be missionaries, right?

Sharing Jesus with the people across the street,

not necessarily across the ocean.

Using whatever gifts he's given us.

For instance, one of the gifts that God gave me

that I used a lot in our early married days

when our children were growing up

was the gift of hospitality.

And I confess, I felt like that was a lesser gift.

I thought there's people that are teaching

and people that are doing all these incredible things

and God you've called me to hospitality, seriously?

And I felt less then.

But I loved having people in our home.

And I loved creating special meals for them

in a warm, inviting atmosphere.

And people would come into our home,

whether they were believers or unbelievers

and we had the opportunity to, number one,

encourage them if they were believers

or to open their eyes to more of who Jesus was,

if they were not a believer.

And I'll never forget, one day Tom said to me," JoAnn,

do you realize the gift of hospitality

that God is using this to bring people into the kingdom?"

And I had never looked at it that way before.

So I just want to encourage listeners,

no matter what gift you have,

whether it's giving, raising money,

for people that are hurting right now.

With the war that's going on with Russia and Ukraine,

or if it's the gift of hospitality.

Having people in, to love them and with the warmth of Jesus

or whatever your spiritual gift is,

ultimately God wants to use that

to bring people into his family.

- [Tom] That's so true.

And I think, boy, this Italian kitchen

was putting out some meals and feeding the neighborhood,

kids in high school and people coming over.

It was truly amazing.

Even when our kids were rebelling

and not walking with Jesus,

JoAnn was cooking meals and people were coming in

and some of the kids that came in,

we never thought we'd have kids like that in our homes,

but you know what?

They were created in the image of God.

They were human beings and they weren't bad.

They just needed someone to listen to them.

And I think, when you look in America today

and this surveys 60 to 70%,

consider themselves Christian and I'd think,

okay, why are we not getting more done in America?

Why are we not stemming the tide against evil?

And I think the answer is simple.

Jesus never called us to become Christians.

He called us to become disciples.

The word's over 200 times in the Bible.

Christian is less than 10 times.

And so as a disciple, you're a doer, you're a goer

and God will show you what your spiritual gifts are.

And I think when I was first a pastor,

I wanted to find out what everybody's spiritual gift was

and we'll plug him in,

and we had all these tests and stuff and at the end,

it didn't seem like it really stimulated people

to do anything other than just say,

why have the gift of encouragement?

And I have this,

and they were kind of like talking and comparing.

I think you just start serving Jesus as disciple

and they'll bubble to the surface

and people will say,

"you do have the gift to teaching,

or encouragement or exhortation or whatever."

And so, I think they just naturally come

and they'll just be manifested.

We'll be able to see them.

So I don't know.

I don't know, maybe people have said

I have the gift of encouragement.

I think at times I would say, well,

I wish someone would encourage me other than JoAnn.

(all laughing)

So we all think, its not that important of a gift,

but really God uses everything for his glory.

And if I can just borrow from our Middle East leader

who works with former Muslims, he said this,

when people pray to receive Christ, I asked him,

why are so many of the Muslims not falling away?

That our team is working with.

He said, "number one,

before they pray to receive Jesus,

we tell them they will be persecuted."

So are they sure they want to do this?

Two, after they prayed, receive Christ,

we show them that Jesus said, "believe and be baptized."

It's an initiation, not a graduation.

Believe in be baptized.

We teach them to be bold, to reach their family.

That day they accept Jesus,

we take them to the next house

and they share their testimony

because they're that far ahead of the next person.

And then the last one, and I've never heard this guys,

never heard this gospel presentation.

We help them discover that they have a spiritual gift,

and that God has called them to fit into the body of Christ.

They're like a missing puzzle piece

and God's called them to salvation.

And there's a reason that he's called them to salvation.

He's going to equip them for a good work,

something that's missing.

- [JoAnn] That's right.

- [Abe] While we're on this question

of sort of making disciples wherever you are,

when we wrapped up our 9/11 conference,

you and Tom were both on your way home.

You jumped into a cab and you headed back to the airport.

And we received the most amazing email in the morning

and it's in the PS.

So I'm just going to read the PS.

And then I have a follow up question.

So this is from JoAnn, you said, "on an exciting note,

we shared the gospel with our driver

on the way to the airport at 4:00 AM this morning.

Tom initiated the conversation, but the guy was subdued.

He kept pressing in, well, I'm ashamed to say,

was thinking he should back off.

Praise God, Tom didn't.

He kept chatting away about Jesus.

I finally joined in as well.

Sweet Wendy from El Salvador was empty and searching.

She prayed in the car, giving her heart and life to Jesus.

Hallelujah, here she is our new sister."

And you attached a photo of you and Wendy.

And I always think about this.

I always think about this email.

You waste no opportunities.

And I think that is such a beautiful ministry.

And so my question is, for our listeners,

how do you, I guess, talk us through that a little bit.

And I don't know if it's something teachable,

it's something you just kind do and you just jump in,

like you're jumping into water, right?

But I guess like, help us understand

the concept of wasting no opportunities to share Jesus.

- [Nicole] So excuse me.

One of the questions you may be asking is,

how do you start the conversation?

- [Abe] Yeah, there you go.

There you go.

That's the simple questions.

- [JoAnn] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Go ahead sweety.

- [Tom] Well, you know what?

Gosh, how many times have we wasted opportunities?

We try not to, but we were super tired.

We were privileged to speak at the conference

and we were MCs too.

We were fairly brain dead.

And so we got in the car and it just started.

We just started talking and I could feel like

JoAnn was kind of tired at that point

and just continue this conversation.

All of a sudden, there was kind of a crack there

and I could tell this woman from another country was lonely.

And so I just thought, oh my gosh,

this is the perfect opportunity.

And so immediately started sharing Jesus.

And it was amazing because as she was driving,

I could see her looking in the rear view mirror

and then sometimes she'd turn around and look behind,

like she wanted to stop and pull over.

And that's where I not feel safe in New York city.

And so she's talking and then all of a sudden JoAnn sees,

oh my gosh, this conversation

is going somewhere, I'm jumping in

and it was just a beautiful thing.

It was really tag teaming the gospel for sure.

- [JoAnn] Well, one of the things I think I'd say Abe,

is we have to have ears to hear, right?

We have the holy spirit residing in us

and sometimes we can have a little thought

that kind of trickles down in our mind

and we have a choice, we can swap that thought away,

or we can let it kind of settle in

and we can listen to, is this the Lord speaking?

Is this my own thoughts?

Or what have you.

So what Tom heard, kind of trickling down was,

as he was having this conversation

and noticed that she was lonely.

So what Tom did, to start that conversation,

switching it to talking about salvation in Jesus

was, well, you're lonely.

Tell me more about why you feel so alone.

You're new in this city.

COVID was just ending, but not really.

And so he used that thought that she had as a bridge.

That bridge let him have,

how can I Jesus into this conversation now?

So I would say that's one of the ways

to start a conversation, a spiritual conversation

is look for something that can be a bridge

to talking about Jesus.

It can be the weather.

It can be anything.

But for her, it was loneliness.

And then another thing for me personally,

you mentioned jumping in water.

I always think of jumping off a diving board.

I always think there's that bridge.

Okay Lord, she's lonely.

I could take this and totally segued

into talking about how Jesus is our only hope.

But I have to have a choice.

I've got to jump on that diving board

into the ice cold water.

And I know when I jump in that water,

either I'm going to be pushed away

and she's going to reject what I say

or she's going to receive those words

and want to go further in conversation.

But it's having the boldness to jump off the diving board.

And I will tell you after

doing this so many times through the years,

Jesus is always there to catch you.

You're going to jump in that water

and it may be cold and even if they snatch you away,

Jesus is always there to catch you.

And I think of Peter when he had

the conversation with Cornelius.

At one point in that passage in Acts,

it says that Peter opened his mouth

and then he began speaking.

And so often that's what Jesus calls us to do.

So one verse that I love

that Paul talks about that,

when he says, I am not as ashamed of the gospel of Christ

for it is the power and to salvation.

And so think about it this way,

when I open my mouth and I begin sharing the gospel,

God's power is released.

I'm not ashamed of the gospel.

I may be afraid, by not being ashamed,

I'm actually speaking the words.

And then even no matter what I say,

his power is released because he desires

that men should perish apart from him.

So then he is in the whole mix.

God is the one moving in the hearts.

He's the one drawing the conversation to the next level

as he did with Wendy in the car,

which by the way, we've had conversations with her

that have continued.

We sent her a Bible, in Spanish.

So she's got her own copy of the scripture now, and yeah.

- [Tom] And I think as believers, as followers of Jesus,

we're not ashamed of the gospel.

We're proud of the gospel.

We're we have a Godly pride about the gospel.

How amazing is this?

We just have trouble getting

the conversation started occasionally.

- [JoAnn] We're afraid we're going to be rejected.

- [Tom] We're going to be rejected and of course, for us

it's been in places where it's jail, maybe danger.

And I was in Gaza going to a refugee camp

with some believers there in the Gaza strip.

So it's hundred percent Muslim,

it's run by Hamas and you have to go

and you have to meet them first

before you go and visit people.

And so there's a guy, his name is Mohamud

and we go in his office and sit down and behind him

in his office are pictures of people.

It's like a who's who of terrorism in the Middle East.

I mean, it's not-

But when he finished, thank you for coming,

to feed the people and all that,

I felt like God said, pray for him.

And I thought, I don't know if this is a good idea.

So I just said, "Mohammud can I give you a gift?"

And he said, yeah, what is that?

And I said, can I pray for you?

You are man, you have a faith.

I have a faith.

Could I pray for you?

And he said, sure.

So we got up and had a couple guys with us.

We got around Mohammud who's in Hamas,

put our hands on him and prayed.

And let me tell you, it's a holy spirit filled prayer

with passion and sees the hands going up

because they're praying to a God that's not there.

They're not getting answers.

No one's home.

And so we just prayed and prayed the gospel

in the midst of the prayer.

And when we finished, we said,

"thanks for letting us pray."

And he looked up and this Hamas guy

had tears on his cheek and he said,

"will you do me a favor?"

And we said, yes.

He goes, "will you pray like that at every home that you go,

at every tent you go to."

We said, we'll do it.

We'll work it in.

We'll do it, right?

We'll do it.

And so a chance to share the gospel.

God is a creative God.

And he'll give you ways to do it.

- [Abe] That's amazing.

- [Nicole] I'm tearing up listening to you.

That is incredible.

Oh my gosh.

So as I'm listening to you,

I'm thinking about how God has placed each of us

in different roles in our lives.

And I'm thinking specifically about our family roles,

our daughters, sons, siblings, spouses, parents.

And often when we think about making disciples,

we think about going outside our home,

reaching strangers on the street,

going to different countries.

But how can we cultivate discipleship

within our spheres of influence with our family and friends?

- [JoAnn] That's a good question.

- [Tom] I think there's some things

that are just simple things that we can do each day

that will be able to give to the family.

And we can share these with our family to be life changing.

For instance, we heard from Billy Graham once that

he said, every day when he read his devotions,

he would lay the Bible out where he had read

and just leave it there on a table.

And time you walk by, he just reread it.

He said, "I have trouble remembering

what I read from my devotion.

So I just lock it in, lock it in, lock it in every day."

And so that's something we passed to our children.

I heard from Arthur Blessed,

who's taken the cross around the world,

been in every single nation with the cross.

He said this, I go to bed at night and he said,

"what I do is open my Bible and I just read Jesus words."

He said, I just read the red letters.

I want Jesus words to be the last things I think about

before I go to bed.

How come we've never thought of that?

We haven't thought of that.

So now we do.

And so little things like that

can really help show them

what a disciple does and how they live.

So it's not just hearing this is what you do,

kind of seeing what people do.

- [JoAnn] In fact, we were just

with Anne Graham lots last week,

I guess it was before we went to Jordan

and we were talking about this very thing.

And how do you pass your faith onto your children?

And going back to Deuteronomy six that Tom quoted earlier,

where it says, "starts with the Shamar here,

the Lord our God is one, love the Lord your God

with all your strength."

You know the rest of the verse.

And then it goes on to say, "teach your children,

along the road, a long life's way, at home."

And so we were talking, well, how do you do that?

How do you do a long life's way and while you're at home?

And basically, what Tom said

is what Anne said they do and that is,

you live your life for Jesus and you are the model.

I mean, we've heard the the old adage,

children learn from what they see

more than from what they hear.

So formal teaching is so good.

Teaching and talking about Jesus,

but then watching us walk with Jesus

truly is I think the best way

to pass that on to our loved ones.

Our kids have walked out from the time,

they're all adults now,

but they have walked out early in the morning

to see to in his little spot

and me in another room, in my spot meeting with Jesus,

reading our Bibles on our faces praying.

And I do believe that is really one of the best ways

to pass on our faith, which is modeling it.

But then having fun times with Jesus.

Not just the formal times are exciting.

But having fun when your kids younger,

your grandchildren are around you,

family members are coming in

making opportunities of everyday moments.

I love what scripture says.

So often in the gospels

it will say sort of like on this one day,

and then it'll go on and share a miracle story.

Well, every day is an ordinary day

but how can we make it extraordinary with Jesus?

How can we take the family dinner

and turn it around to something memorable for our children?

The Holy Spirit will show us ways to do that.

Creative ways to do that.

- [Tom] And I think we're certainly

not trained to act Christian

or this is what you do or whatever.

Hopefully they just catch you in the moment.

One of the things we say is that,

when believers are serious about prayer,

they'll get on their faces.

If they're desperate.

We call it facetime.

And it's not what's on your apple phone,

it's what believers have been doing for centuries

when they were desperate, forgotten to move

and it is God on their faces.

And when kids or grandkids see you on your face praying,

they know it's serious business.

And often they'll ask what we're praying.

Oh, we're just, we're praying for all of you kids.

It's just a good thing for them to see.

- [JoAnn] Another thing that we love doing

with our grandkids is acting out scripture.

Some of our grandchildren are still younger

and so it's so fun at Christmas time

for instance, we had everybody stand up

and have different roles in the Christmas story.

And the kids remember that.

And they cling to that because they saw it with their eyes.

They tasted it in many different parts.

Another thing that we love to do is tell Bible stories.

I mean, don't we love telling stories.

That's how we communicate.

You just read that email,

that in a sense was a story of meeting Wendy.

So often we'll take a scripture

from story of Jesus miracle, for instance.

Jesus calming the storm.

And we will tell that story

to our grandchildren in story form.

And they listen at the edge of their seat

and they remember it more than

if I just would've read that to them.

So it's just being creative

because our God is a creative God.

Look at our world.

Oh my gosh.

Look at the flowers and the animals.

I mean, if a Giraffe can have a long neck, right?

That's a creative God.

So we can be creative in how we present Jesus to them.

How we present God's word to them.

They're going to want-

And if we have enthusiasm.

If we're excited about something,

they're going to catch that passion as well.

- [Tom] That's right.

- [Nicole] As you were talking about all this

I was remembering going to vacation Bible school as a kid

and learning the hand motions with the songs.

Me and Abe were very blessed

to have grown up in a Christian family

and see our parents model this faith for us.

But I know for a lot of Jewish and Arab believers in Jesus,

they don't have that.

They don't have any role models

in their family to look up to.

And when they come to faith,

they tend to feel a little isolated

because they don't know if it's even okay

to share their faith with their family.

Especially if they're going to be persecuted for it.

How would you encourage a believer

who may face persecution for what they believe,

but wants to make disciples?

- [Tom] Yeah, that's tough.

And I mean, we see it where we are

and it's really on both sides obviously,

Jewish and Arab or Muslim.

As you said, yeah, I think there's no easy answer.

I think for when they come to faith in Christ if they know

they're probably going to be persecuted,

it's good to know that ahead of time.

It just starts with one

and maybe they can even start online doing something.

That's an easy way to start.

The church is in three forms now.

We have church on the ground,

we have the church underground

and places where it's super dangerous

like Iran and Saudi Arabia.

But then we have the church above the ground now,

the digital church that in some places, believers in Mecca,

they probably never meet a believer,

but all of that can be online.

So that's not a bad place to start.

For some believers is online

where they can think through answers and pray,

and that that's not a bad place to start.

What do you think Joan?

- [JoAnn] One of the things that I was thinking about

is that, one message we hear often

with former Muslims that come to faith in Jesus

and how family members see the change in their life,

they want what they see in their loved one.

And they don't know what it is,

but all of a sudden they see joy.

They see smiles on faces.

What they see is evidence

of the presence of the Holy Spirit.

So their countenance is changed.

Their whole demeanor is changed

as they carry the fruit of the spirit.

So that is a great way to share

for someone that may be

perhaps in a family where they're afraid

to share their faith.

Is asking the Lord to allow his presence to shine it out

so that their loved ones will be drawn

to what they see in this new believer's life

and they'll start asking questions.

So that's a great place to start,

Lord, may I shine you in such a way

that's that my family members

who I want to share with but I'm so afraid to,

may they ask me what makes me different?

And then I can share the hope that is within me.

So we can never forget,

we've got the holy spirit,

the advocate, our helper, the counselor.

He's called so many different names in the Bible.

But we can talk to him and ask him

to shine out from us in a way that

gives us opportunities.

Or asking him as well.

Jesus, is this a safe person for me to talk to?

Lord, send me to someone who is searching for truth.

Who's seeking truth.

Give me the opportunities to recognize them

and then to have the boldness to share with them.

So we can always go to the Lord in prayer

and he will show it.

I don't want to oversimplify that

but that is a really deep concept.

We cannot overlook the power

of the specific prayer in series.

I'm sorry, go ahead.

- [Tom] Yeah, and I think that's so true JoAnn.

And the number one way that people are discovered

that they're a believer,

whether they come from a Jewish background,

a Muslim background, is this,

their family sees a change in their countenance.

It's not something they've tried to do.

It's the holy spirit is there.

So the fruit of the spirit just naturally comes out

and they see that,

and that's a game changer for them.

How are they like this?

That produces the questions.

And so, we really see that wherever we go that-

In fact, there's, this is crazy.

There's an Imam in a Iraq

that's saying that it's okay for Muslims

to let their wives become Christians.

He said it publicly.

People went, what?

What are you talking about?

No, it's really good.

It's good for Muslims to let their wives become Christians

because they're in a much better mood,

they have joy and happiness

and it goes so much better for the husband.

- [JoAnn] It goes back to the man, right?

- [Abe] Whatever works.

- [Nicole] Hey, I'll take it.

- [Tom] But you know what?

He hit the nail on the head, didn't he?

- [Abe] Well, Tom and JoAnn,

this has been such an amazing time with you.

As we wrap up, how can our viewers,

oh, this is a podcast.

How can our listeners pray for you?

- [JoAnn] Oh gosh, thank you.

That is such a kind question.

- [Tom] Well, you know what?

I would pray for our frontline team.

I mean there are in the worst places you can imagine.

In Syria, in dangerous places

where the Islamic state started.

And in difficult places in Iran, in Afghanistan,

we just got a picture of someone

that was baptized a couple of weeks ago in Afghanistan.

And he wanted people to see it, hey, the church is not gone.

Jesus is still here.

- [JoAnn] And so what Tom's not sharing is that photo

that we received from the person getting new believer,

getting baptized in Afghanistan

is it's outside where anybody can see.

Taliban, anybody can see.

And number two, it's in the background of that photo,

you see snow on the bank, so that water is freezing.

And so it's freezing cold, outside in the open, in public,

this man was making truly a public proclamation.

I am a follower of Jesus and I am following him in baptism.

Could have been be headed at any moment, but yeah.

Talk about boldness.

- [Tom] That's right, that's right.

So really praying for all the workers.

When I think about the work in Israel

with Jewish people and the resistance to the gospel

because some people called themselves Christians

and they don't know any difference.

If the listeners would just pray for the health

and for the believers that lead these ministries

to just keep going.

There's some times where they're not seeing a lot of fruit

and there's times when they see a lot,

but we know that the state

is going to be crushed under our feet.

It's going to happen.

And so just pray for the leaders there, they get tired,

they have a lot of needs.

And then also God always protects us

and protects our family,

but the enemy tries to attack our family.

And so we have a lot of things, six kids,

five married and 14 grandkids.

And so pray for their protection.

That would be so helpful.

- [Abe] Well, thank you again,

both of you for giving the time.

I know you're a jet lag from Jordan,

but this was amazing.

Thank you so much.

- [Nicole] Thanks Tom and JoAnn.

- [Tom] Praise God.

- [JoAnn] Abe and Nicole, thank you.

It's been our joy.

- [Tom] Amen, it was what wonderful, thank you.

Hey, let's do a live one from the Middle East some time.

- [Abe] Absolutely that sounds amazing.

As followers of Yeshua,

we have the privilege of being a part of a higher purpose.

We are now part of the global family of disciples,

uniting to share the good news of salvation to the world.

We have been drafted into the army of God

to bring forth the ministry of reconciliation,

just like our Messiah.

We pray you will continue to share

the love and truth of Messiah

wherever you are, and run with endurance

the race set before you.

As we wrap up this episode, I'm sad to announce,

this will be my last episode with Our Hope Podcast.

It's been a joy and a privilege

to speak with you and to speak with others

and teach you and just bring you

into all that we're doing in this ministry,

this amazing ministry.

And while I'm sad,

I know that God has a lot for me and my family.

And I am just looking forward to seeing this

and hearing this podcast on my ride to work

and seeing that all Nicole and Grace

and the full digital media team

at Chosen People Ministries is going to do.

And with that, I'd like to introduce you

to the new host of Our Hope Podcast, Nicole Vacca.

As she wraps up this episode,

I'm Abe Vasquez, signing off.

- [Nicole] If you enjoyed this episode,

please let us know by leaving a review

on apple podcasts or a rating on Spotify.

You can also share this podcast

with your family and friends on social media.

Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Our Hope

featuring Tom and JoAnn Doyle from Uncharted Ministries.

This episode was co-written and co-produced

by Nicole Vacca and Grace Swee and edited by Grace Swee.

This episode was also made possible

thanks to Dr. Mitch Glazer,

Abe Vasquez, Rachel Larsen, Kieran Bautista,

and Jann Bautista.

I'm Nicole Vacca, until next time.

- Thanks for listening to Our Hope.

If you like our show and want to know more,

check out ourhopepodcast.com or chosenpeople.com.

You can also support our podcast by giving today

at ourhope.com/support.

See you next time.