Transcripts
Hello Charterfolk.
Jed Wallace:This is Jed here, And the chance to come back to San Diego to talk with an old friend Alan Bersin, who has connections all over San Diego and the great idea of recording this live at Jimmy Carter's Mexican restaurant in central San Diego. So this in the middle of an operating restaurant. So you may hear some background noise, but I hope you enjoy the conversation. Alan and I have had a really terrific time together here. Alan, thank you so much for joining me for Charterfolk Chat.
Alan Bersin:Jed, it's good to reconnect.
Jed Wallace:And let's get started because you invited me to a
Jed Wallace:Reunion of people that worked in your administration in San Diego. And I had happened to be ruminating on some progress that you made working at the airport, one of the most difficult projects anybody can imagine. And flying into what everybody believes is just like this incredible airport now, and you played a major role in getting that done. But thinking back to our time together in San Diego, and wait a second, did we make as much progress in education as we did then? And suddendly you and I are back in contact with each other again, and we're here. So making time for this. Oh, for sure. And want to just give a little bit of context for listeners too. In our family life, it's fair to say there's kinda like before Alan and since., Whe I met you through a business school contact, you probably remember Adam Newman, who was helping you with the blueprint. And I met him at Kellogg and like, there's a guy you need to meet. And were linked up via, email and after that I ended up coming to work here, and thrust me out into a river, that I didn't know how fast the current was. So, for all sorts of reasons, it's just great to be able to reconnect And able to express gratitude for the difference that you made in my life.
Alan Bersin:Oh, thank you.
Alan Bersin:That was a very special time. And the idea was to find, good, intellectual athletes, effective people who, could learn how to swim. I think that was the time back, nineteen ninety-eight-99 late nineties, early two thousands. Yep. When we tried a non-traditional school superintendent.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:The was, that nothing in the experience of a teacher or a principal
Alan Bersin:Would put them in a position to run a two or $4 billion system of education. And, it started with the Rod Page, General John Stanford, Valles in Chicago. The idea was let's take leaders from outside the education sector and see how they do. And it was a very exciting time in American education. Then, George Bush and Margaret Spellings and No Child Left Behind, where this idea that we could make a difference, systematically and systemically, took hold. And it was quite a time in San Diego. You were part of a extraordinary team. There dozens and dozens of extraordinary people from all walks of life.
Jed Wallace:Yeah, one of the things I talked about in that post was
Jed Wallace:Just, I think every superintendent is gonna brag on their team. And there have been incredible teams that have been assembled for sure. But there aren't many in my estimation that just the breadth and the depth that your team did. And just something about your personal involvement, your background, your level of commitment. I know that when you had me come, I didnt think I go and work in a superintendent's office. But not only did you end up recruiting me, you ended up recruiting two more from Kellogg, and told you this story when we got together, but my funniest memories is at Kellogg, in the program for the graduation they Listed all the companies that had hired people from McKinsey, Kellogg, Jed Wallace 04:18
Goldman Sachs, BCG, all this stuff. And in the bottom right hand corner, If at least three that were hired, so the bottom right. San Diego Unified Schools.
Alan Bersin:This when you should have been present at the recruitment
Alan Bersin:Of you and Laura, then Ken,
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:S.
Alan Bersin:But two Navy admirals getting Lou Smith.
Alan Bersin:Yeah. Headed up the Sea beast to take the bond and reconstruct the city schools, Or, the Navy mayor of San Diego to run the business thing. Or a Marine Colonel. Terry Smith as Chief of Staff, a new position in the school district. Legal aid lawyer, Joan Ann Sawyer. Noel the general counsel, Ricardo Soto to back and Tad Parson to back her up. When we pulled everyone back for the reunion, which I guess we had 30 or 40 people.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:It really was Camelot and which is one of the reasons why
Alan Bersin:You're reaching out and what you've done since and what others have done. It's a good time to reflect, at this point in American history.
Jed Wallace:Yeah, to ask you about.
Jed Wallace:There was the senior team you brought together, and there was us, young folk that you brought together. The first time I met, Joel Klein, in your office and you introduced me as coming from Kellogg And like what? Wait. From that we working here And, started at San Diego Unified, We Broad sent his team down And the three of us, And an entire program right where across the country, I It hundreds of people ended up being placed in super or in school district central offices and big CMOs because of this kind of stuff. So just another one of these legacies that you have that you probably aren't even like thinking of It's part of what you got done here through yourstunning I'm leadership and all
Alan Bersin:I'm not so modest, but it really was the team.
Alan Bersin:It was the team. And, meeting and then befriending Joel Klein,who I'd known in the Justice Department. Joel coming, Roy Romer coming before LA. And in each case what they said was, "should I do this? Should take this on?" And the answer I gave to both of them was, "This will be most important work you do in your life, but it won't be the most fun.
Jed Wallace:And there are a lot of people that had
San Diego Jed Wallace:On the national radar screen. What you were doing was just unprecedented. And the progress that the Blueprint for Student Success made in San Diego was incredibly noteworthy. And also. It's about how long did those reforms endure? So your mo different moments to reflect. There's afterwards when you went on to become Secretary of Education in California, giving you more perspective then. But now you're a good 20-ish years from leaving San Diego Unified. How do you look back now, on that time? How do you think about that?
Alan Bersin:Yeah, it is important to reflect particularly in light of
Alan Bersin:The kinds of things that you're now doing and many other people are doing. So it was the period of the non-traditional school superintendent. A period when the business community, this is got extraordinary, visionary business leaders like Eli Broad involved, Hastings, involved. There was a hopeful quality to it. And the mission, as I understood it, really was given to me by Tony Alvarado, may he rest in peace.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:But Jed Wallace:
Talk about a stunning leader, man.
Alan Bersin:We, actually get him to come out to San Diego and then
Alan Bersin:Bring out Elaine Fink, who I'm stopping by to bring my respects to her this week in Coronado, is to take what they had done in district two.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:The playbook and whether we could bring it to the eighth largest
Alan Bersin:School district then in the country. Whether or not you could, you could, really take to scale the kinds of reforms, the focus on literacy, instructional improvement, professional development. I think in fairness to the team that made it happen, and the teachers who came around and the principals in 180 schools who, for the most part, led to reform and the kind of achievement, the increase in student achievement, particularly K-8.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:Yes, I think that the mission was accomplished with a big caveat.
Alan Bersin:So as I've said, I think what we demonstrated in San Diego, all of us, the team, was that you could reform an urban school district, But the asterisk is that the reform could not be sustained. So, we lasted years on a margin of a one vote majority on the school board.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:But, at the end, the forces of the status quo.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:Largely, union.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:Coupled with a link to a school board electoral system
Alan Bersin:Carried the day and has since. But, That does have some lessons for where we are now.
Jed Wallace:I mean, Tony and I didn't spend that much time together.
Jed Wallace:He just couldn't be bothered by anything that didn't go direct to the instruction. Oh, all you talk about is your charters, Jed, blah, whatever. I think he called me Boswell during those days
Alan Bersin:Was whispering, right?
Jed Wallace:But, he reallt had this just, Hey, if instruction does not
Jed Wallace:Improve, we're not getting anywhere. And I remember having the privilege of sitting in on some of the professional development activities. I remember Elaine working with the principals. And do you do a walkthrough And down? So you walk through a classroom, What practices that you're trying to gauge for? And people walk into a classroom, They know what to look for. And, When at CCSA, I Visiting 750 charter schools in my 10 years at CCSA, But always trying to like, help other staff members crack open the experience of visiting a charter school. What you looking for? But you're looking for a different thing when you're visiting a whole school and charter and all that than you are visiting a classroom on practice, But specificity, The passion about, How is all a legacy of Elaine and Tony. Doing system wide in San Diego?
Alan Bersin:Yeah., Carol Pike, Debbie ach, And, extraordinary leaders
Alan Bersin:Who, we then grew a large crop of new leaders through the economy that we established with the Paula Cordero at yeah, At the University of San Diego. All was, terrific, But, why wasn't it sustained? And, And people of the anti-union people, In, career always would say, You, that I was, anti, labor union because in fact, that was the story that came out of San Diego And is not true. I a union friendly family. I've member of two unions myself. I, When a sophomore in high school in nineteen sixty-two Would me cross the picket line When, Oh, the first teacher strike in New York. So not, personal, But come away with the conviction That, elimination of the influence that the NEA And FT Yeah. Has education, We should be able to reform, systematically, public education in this country. And doing the job that they're legislated to do. Yeah. Which give adults what adults want for their jobs rather than children, what children need for their education. That fact that we have to confront, which is, absent changes in that. And boards that actually perpetuate The actually the tool by which the unions, maintain their power.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:Absent two dimensions of our current political situation,
Alan Bersin:A things in our politics, We should be able to get to where we need to be in terms of systematic, reform that have the kind of reforms that charter schools and the charter movement is pursuing. And of that you introduced, 20 25 years ago, the idea of a portfolio of schools. The to is, We're, period of great change. Yeah. And, trying to get the whole enchilada, What to do Is, down on the principles. That on And, autonomy, Give an opportunity to be creative. I the period we're in And I work that you've been doing in The,
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Jed Wallace:I push on this And, think that charter schools have growing success over time. It is, in the ether right now, a lot of discussion about private school choice and all sorts of other things. And just keep chugging away And settings right now. If at New Orleans, I've about New Orleans. I've you materials about New Orleans and Indianapolis and Camden, And And, dc Even Philadelphia Where concentrations of schools, That well. We all boats rise across, the entire school district And gaps close as well. And seems to be as though. This an approach that is being embraced, even more, aggressively. But don't really see that. The where it happens is where the charter school world itself and our funders and our other supporters just put everything that we can toward getting it done.
Alan Bersin:That'sn History works.
Alan Bersin:It's, getting together. And, seizing the opportunity that a particular political situation, offers. What what we need to do is have a clearer vision of What to do And understanding That the midst of a massive political upheaval in this country.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:And is a dimension of it,
Jed Wallace:But p part of it too, though, I think Alan, Is still
Jed Wallace:People still clinging to a belief. There a naivete. That just get the right superintendent Or the city that proves everybody else wrong. And like you As you are, Begin, That, It's going to work. You for political reasons Or other reason to let your district continue to languish. But believe that you're actually gonna be able to drive lasting change. I opinions on this. Given really matter.
Alan Bersin:Yeah,y that loud And not the a worthy mission.
Alan Bersin:We're equipped politically to do it. So school boards, Which, The, landscape still, Although in the country. Yeah. So a terrific institution created by Horace Mann in the 19th century And building on The coming into the 19th century That. By which we asserted democratic control of the schools community, control of the schools. And was tied to the tax base, right? The of a school board member That do this. Yep. Now forward to the 21st century And the last half of the 20th century and the union movement, for lots of economic, globalization reasons. Has, weakened in the in the private sector. Yeah. To, detriment I think of the middle class in this country. Yeah. And that have thrived have been the public sector unions, In And more than elsewhere. Visibility elections. Yeah. In elect school boards.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:The players, Now business community is absented
Alan Bersin:Itself From, teachers' unions. Yeah. And hard to play in the teacher's unions to capitalize on this opportunity that they have And to elect people who are friendly. What, That, of that is that you have union. People on both sides of the negotiating cable? Yeah,
Jed Wallace:Are probably not following what's happening in Sacramento right
Jed Wallace:Now, the union has regained complete control, of the board and essentially the union's negotiating with itself. And Unified though, is just imploding financially. They've agreed to things that are simply not sustainable. And while there was some force that the charter school world and others were trying to work on those elections. We've essentially gone slack in Sacramento Unified. And see, this arise somehow or another, we've gotta figure out some other check and balance, some other structure that's gonna be more durable for urban improvement.
Alan Bersin:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:This will require though, a change in democratic party politics because of the traditional, going back to the Franklin Roosevelt in the thirties. The between, the Democratic politics and the union movement is that's just hung on. Yeah. And way in which campaign finance, works in this country, you continue to perpetuate this link that prevents the change because this is gonna take a change that does not, permit, that eliminates school boards. They aren't anachronism. And We to grips with that both, in the urban area and in the rural area. But the Easier said than done. Yeah. But that if we continue to create this idea that you cannot do this with the forces arrayed against it. You cannot do the system reform. It always takes longer than you want to see.
Jed Wallace:And my, two obsessions here, since, leaving CCSA and when
Jed Wallace:I left, charter school growth fund, sent me on a tour of 35 states and I just gotta visit every place. And I really saw a lot of things that were just sobering to me. And the two things, really, the three things were, that we needed, stronger advocacy. And seemed to be stronger and our teacher unions are able to do both policy work and political work. And the charter school world had basically done only policy. We the political as well. The second thing was we needed a better policy agenda. Just gotta keep funding for fighting for funding and facilities and those kinds of things, but we're starting to have systemic impact and we're not bringing forward the proposals that would allow school districts and others to evolve into a bigger place. And the third piece was that charter school people ourselves were down in the mouth. And, some of us were starting to believe we were on the wrong side of history. We were believing it. And feel like our world had not been investing in our own people enough. And own people were losing a sense of belief in ourself. So those are the three things I just, I keep working on over and over again. But I think the second one is maybe the one that's irking me the most right now. 'cause we have places where charter schools have made extreme great progress, but then we stall out at 30%, 40% or 50% of kids in charter. What proposal, right? Where think the policy creativity is gonna come that's gonna be able to like, solve some of these really difficult problems you're talking about?
Alan Bersin:Specifically in my experience has been you've got to get
Alan Bersin:To the parents at the local community and you say, that's, elementary. But here in San Diego with the charter schools and with the extraordinary work that you and Larry Rosenstock did at High Tech High, that twice has done out at UCSD, that conversion charter schools have done in the city. But, ultimately, it was the parents who were properly, led by parent leaders, but with help. From organizers That, asserted themselves and you say, that's, that's, true. But It's It's very tough to do. But to how do we get over the hump of 40% of the students, or 50% of the students, is the story of the success of the schools that exist. It's gotta be taken, further into the community. And that requires, you and I have talked about this and now I'm, I it pains me to say it, but one of the problems of the charter movement is that we've never really dealt with the accountability issue. As we have to. When to the point where it genuinely is about the children and we're not preserving schools that don't work, charter or not, then I think we'll be able to start selling this idea. When the distinction, in performance.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Jed Wallace:I hear you. Definitely Grassroots strength. What makes the charter schools different than every other reform effort that's come before us. We have a base, we got 4 million kids in charter schools now. And some states where the associations are turning those, parents and others into a voting block, not strong enough to really compete toe to toe with unions, but not nothing. So you But feel like. We coherence. This is where what we need is something esque. We smarts, Yeah. We really at the grass tops level that can come forward. And the stuff like Indianapolis right now, I dunno if you're following that specifically, but What Public School District evolve into? How it become basically the biggest CMO in town? Who authorizer going to be? How going? And, the great, conflict of interest we have for most of our school districts in the country is they are both the operator and the regulator. They're Bowl team and they're the Super Bowl referee. Come, but, and we know this but we never propose a solution. And for the first time, we're doing it in Indianapolis. But think it's the beginning.
And Alan Bersin:Indianapolis Jed Wallace:
Has got Smart yourself could help.
Indianapolis Jed Wallace:Yeah. I Harvard help, all sorts of places.
Alan Bersin:Really, this is, An This, convening
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:And the hard work of hope.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:Which out what the solution
Alan Bersin:Is. But is, what happened at that time of the non-traditional superintendents. A group of people got together. Yeah. And, the intellectual effort.
Jed Wallace:This where I'm going.
Jed Wallace:I it's gonna come from It's come from non-traditional backgrounds. To get the creativity
Alan Bersin:Thinking.
Alan Bersin:I that group, you know much, investment bankers, private equity people, community organizers. Yeah. The the San Diego experience was the diversity of view.
Jed Wallace:Right.
Alan Bersin:That we had, in involved in that We, hired De Gomez from Sacramento.
Jed Wallace:Right,
Alan Bersin:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:To, redo the HR system. I may be a lesson in that which is a It, gotta bring people from a variety of perspectives.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:And the funding to sustain a thinking this through.
Alan Bersin:Because doesn't, I wish it were as simple as, an idea, occurs.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:It's generating that kind of change and then building the political
Alan Bersin:Support for it is critical work.
Jed Wallace:And, but I feel like the lack of crispness on our side, on our,
Jed Wallace:I'm beat up on, I'm inviting you to beat up on us, but like your experience at Gompers incredible, historically. Challenge school in this in in the district, converse to charter school status. Its results on some measures far surpassed in what's going on in high tech high. And And of conversion to a achar a district teacher is so different. We're, seeking to replace you. You're the problem. We're the we want you to be even more successful than you already are. Come. Convert, your CHOP's not going away. You job right. But don't present our work in those kinds of terms, I think we invite more ops, opposition than we would otherwise get.
Alan Bersin:And buy into the to the union tactic of big
Alan Bersin:Anti-union is being anti teacher.
Jed Wallace:Exactly Alan Bersin:
That, that's elementary you And be taken on.
Exactly Alan Bersin:And demonstrated by the end of the seven years in San Diego before the school board election that ousted us. Most of the teachers were there, I think in the last year of the two thousand four two thousand three. Only 10% or 15% of the teachers voted in the in the union election. They and yeah. And of getting the word out to teachers, has gotta be backed up by, also dealing with the idea that you don't need a an antiquated contract of 400 pages of stupid work rules.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:To, protect the teacher that in fact, teachers are protected,
And Jed Wallace:Yep.
Alan Bersin:And, honored if they perform
Jed Wallace:Right.
Alan Bersin:I think, a I idea of you convening and you and your colleagues,
Alan Bersin:Convening a group that would, do the new, the one of these conventions in American History that takes place where you get the Seneca Convention or the where the Women's Suffrage Convention where, people actually rethink, the movement.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:I we're, we're, pride for that
Jed Wallace:And think, years after working for you another, real
Jed Wallace:Mentor and support of my life was, Ray Cortines and he was announced to be the superintendent in LA in the same week that I was announced to be the lead at CCSA. So we had lunch together two weeks later and I sat down and I congratulated him. For becoming the biggest CMO in town leading. And laughter, his laughter just echoed across a restaurant like this. But was, and and we laughed and laughed, but I actually was serious. I have to have these idea, And about accountability, And about the Super Bowl conflict there, But nothing. There's, to propose San Diego Unified should basically operate like a CMO. Yeah. Every five years it should be making its argument for be continuing to operate at schools and San Diego County Office of Education is gonna be their authorized. Now, ever gonna happen? No, not. But to surface ideas like this yeah. We now start to condition the landscape And feel like, we're not conditioning it nearly as much as, we need to. Yeah. But ask you about, Do if I ask you about to 'cause you sent me an email with some other things that you were con, that you're concerned about. Another, that people don't give you enough credit for is, you were the chair on the of the California Commission on Teacher Credentialing. And a very subtle change in regulation at the state level. That said, if you wanted to run your intern program, if you wanted to credential your own teachers, it previously said you had to be a school district. But you changed it brilliantly to an lea,
Alan Bersin:Right?
Jed Wallace:Because you knew that charter schools were deemed LEAs
Jed Wallace:In the state of California, And you were able to go to Larry Rosenstock. And you had to go to him like two or three times
Alan Bersin:To Jed Wallace:
It's of the story that Larry never told me,
Alan Bersin:To high tech, high college of education.
Jed Wallace:So policy innovation.
Jed Wallace:It's subtle little piece. And a fun little anecdote, But I think speaks to just more profound changes that we have in terms of how we're preparing new people to come in. Are schools of education properly set up? I just, you've, worked on this for a very long time. Yeah. What latest thoughts on that?
Alan Bersin:Yeah, no, so the idea of teaching, The, paradoxes is
Alan Bersin:That, we pay teachers so very little compared to investment bankers.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:When at the work that they're doing, the fact that teachers,
Alan Bersin:Colleges, schools of education were a function of legislation during the land grant period. They, enormous good, But, succeeded in turning teaching into the profession that it ought to be. With the yeah, with the compensation, with the status, with the rewards that come with professional, status. And analyzed, try to figure out why is that their whole series of reasons, That, it, the lack of a knowledge base that you build on, The, resistance of higher ed in the education field to change. But see, Jed, part of what I admire about what your group is doing now is, the period, this is such a period of change.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:And, opportunity that I think the focus.
Alan Bersin:This idea of instructional improvement, that Tony Alvarado introduced me to that. I still believe at the end of the day, the beginning of the day, the quality of teaching, is what affects the degree of learning.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:But even the theoreticians of that movement, Dick Elbo have
Alan Bersin:Moved away and said, that we could never get to the scale that we needed to actually have the impact. And that we should be looking to technology. And so we're in the midst of this recent midst of change. Yeah. So that I completely endorsed the direction that we have to fix the politics. We have to confront the union problem. We have to confront the school board problem. We have to confront the difficulties of district reform and recognize that the districts need to use their power and authority Yeah. To, enable other solutions to the problem that. That it has not found. So I'm, dodging your, the issue, although I'm, I think it's a fundamental one because I think we have some business on the on the plate. We have some business on the table that needs to be dealt with And people are starting to do that with seriousness at Indianapolis? Yeah, with in Denver. In Houston and elsewhere. When, I was a young, I started my career in Los Angeles. I was the 16th or 17th lawyer at Munger to and Olson in Los Angeles. And a nondescript, businessman would have partnered up with the Munger, with Charlie Munger tolls, and And also, And, was Warren Buffet. And, he used to come to the Monday lunches that we would have. And something that stuck with me forever. He said, Best new business is to work on your desk.
Jed Wallace:I like that.
Jed Wallace:I like that.
Alan Bersin:Best source of new business is to work on your desk.
Alan Bersin:So on our desk now, is a big, political change, But Very small ways.
Jed Wallace:So, you were hired tomorrow and given another, or
Jed Wallace:Let's say you're talking to people that are taking these roles. A it is the superintendents and the school boards, they're, they must operate within the constructs that they have. And things we're talking here are longer term solutions. It's more tectonic than they can deal with. At time though, I if they have the right orientation. If actively chose a Camden approach, I if you follow what, like Newark is doing. Newark is so sad. The are growing, And than responding in a healthy way, they have basically created a bunch of new selective admissions magnets And, there's ability sorting all the kids And money away from the schools that are not the selected. Is, what's happening as we grow. So feel like superintendents and boards where they are right now, they have very significant sway, even within a broken, broader landscape. If taking one of these roles or if you were mentoring like three or four of 'em, yeah. Would, crack open the experience in Indianapolis and Camden and run the same play, or What, be saying?
Alan Bersin:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:You, you'd want to be, sure that there was the capacity within the politics as it existed to deal well and confront well, and confront this which is, you're not gonna get the entire portfolio of schools approach adopted. But it, this idea that the people would be open to change and that they would be willing to support and be very specific about it. This about, this is about, this is what I intend to do. The most of these school searches, the superintendents, is that it's after the superintendent is selected, that they then, say, we're now gonna convene a six week study group to figure out what's the mission. As, to superintendent saying, This I intend to do.
Jed Wallace:Right?
Alan Bersin:And some assurance that this is, that I'm gonna have a four
Alan Bersin:To five year period to implement it. And not in a position to guarantee that support, then you'll have to find someone else for the job. This about getting in there. And it goes, This having a very firm idea of what you intend to do without necessarily, insisting that it all be done in the first six months, but creating the conditions for change That, the kind of diversity of operation. That clearly need. There's jobs to be done in education today. And, large urban school superintendent, may not be the one for you.
Jed Wallace:You, a fascinating substack.
Jed Wallace:You're the changes that are happening in the economy and in broader politically, I even know about this before, five years before I sent you this most recent, information about San Diego. I talked about, normal street, the name of our, central office here in San Diego. There rough beast slouching toward normal street to be born. And are like across the entire country. And say I wrote that almost, six years ago. I this the slouch and the size of the beast that's headed toward these school districts, is even bigger. And, probably the most antiquated, the least, set up to deal with what's coming? Maybe to share, some of your thoughts just about just the broader changes that are happening in technology, broader changes that are happening in politics, And again to What mean for our wor our work here in education?
Alan Bersin:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:So in a period of massive disruption in every area. And, the idea that so many of the fundamentals, in the paradigms that we've, we've operated, are changing. Yeah. This, of abundance rather than scarcity. Yeah. The, intelligence now is, not something to be commodity. Distracted, but it's a commodity. Yeah. And we have to figure out how to deliver, it. Yeah. Prepare people to work with it. The, having mapped, the genome, we now. Can work, for healthcare, solutions that were not, yeah. Simply not there. This boggling And, understands how this is gonna play out. So to take our piece of this.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:And are big changes coming.
Alan Bersin:Public education. Even in a whole variety of different forms. Yeah. But we're in a period where we have to support, experimentation. We, And them. Not, the I And nonpartisan because the
Jed Wallace:Totally Alan Bersin:
The, they're on their way out as well.
Totally Alan Bersin:Yeah. There'll an evolution will take longer than it should, But question that the Roosevelt and the Reagan, ways of organizing our politics and seeing, social solutions, they've been, discredited by the extremism that's been attached to them on either side of the spectrum. So a this is a not, this is a not, Nobody knows. And tells you they know is full of it. But an exciting time. And, I've, I try to counsel my friends. I invited, Donald Trump to be the disruptor. But also recognize that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris couldn't have been the disruptors, That, at a period where, Change is, happening. Yeah. And condemn every bit of it because you don't like the change agent,
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:You'll, actually making a mistake.
Alan Bersin:That's condone things that Should be condoned. But about the go back to the idea of we need to get good people together to come up with solutions.
Thought Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:And, to show the courage to start implementing, We never knew
Alan Bersin:Where many of the things we started in San Diego were gonna end up, But our principles and we had a guiding vision. And the people, capable people to go forward. That's are today.
Jed Wallace:And, glad you bring up courage.
Jed Wallace:And you watched, Brandon's piece and I think you watched Howard Fuller's as well. And think we've had this vain hope that maybe we were gonna be able to get it done without some rather remarkable demonstrations of courage. But remember school board meetings, where people that were out for you would come and just say the most outlandish things about you. Oh. Just, And and you just sat there, And fricking going. You going. Can a little bit about where you got it and And, the right encouragement for people that are in these situations where it's gonna require a level of courage, probably beyond what they imagined for their own lives.
Alan Bersin:Every, gotta discover that core for themselves And, I a
Alan Bersin:Realization for me that you have to you have to develop that this is not something we're born with being called a Nazi, and having, people, Run, to yell at your children how miserable you are is not something that we're, capable of dealing with. And by the way, the latter is the only one where I actually, would not accept it. Yeah. But this is about toughness. The, about, understanding that you've gotta have a thick skin. That, leadership is, It that This a this is a contact sport of the first order. And, you've gotta hit as well as be hit, But, to leave. Unnecessary bruises. Yeah. Some, is something people don't get into positions, and last if, they don't have that quality that they've. The, And from mentors, It loved ones, it comes from good partners. It, Yeah. The, only way to know is to find out,
Jed Wallace:We lot of people that if they stress how broken our
Jed Wallace:Public education system is, people will start accusing them of not caring about public education. Yeah. And that our adversaries do this is 'cause they realize it works. And our own people like take the edge off. And I feel like we just have to do a better job of is, expressing our reverence for the what public education is supposed to be. And knocking us off those moorings. And of us breathing life into that thing is to be able to honestly talk about how grave the problems are And the changes need to be if it's gonna long endure. Yeah.
Alan Bersin:It.
Alan Bersin:But you want people at your back. You want people at your back. Believe know that one too. Yeah, You at your back. I moment, the greatest moment, That, from those years was the right toward the end when it was already announced that my contract wasn't gonna be renewed. And, was, the charter vote on goers and The at which, the union had fired up. It's two members of the school board And to prevent, Gompers from becoming a charter school. And 150 parents from the poorest neighborhood in San Diego. People their jobs, People, From Southeast San Diego coming to not so normal street.
Jed Wallace:Yep.
Alan Bersin:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:Had, there And board vote was five zero oh. This gonna be done because it's a good intellectual notion.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:But, the plan And the vision.
Alan Bersin:But because, we persuade, people. That stand up And, what's right for their children, which they will do.
Jed Wallace:Yep.
Alan Bersin:If, circumstances, for that to happen.
Jed Wallace:I much you spend this time with me.
Jed Wallace:I It's again, and I think people will understand, why, even when you re, recruited me to the district to not do everything that was like my first, inclination. But I wanted to be a part of the story that was happening in San Diego. I think people will, understand better why I made that decision, having a chance to observe this together. But I'll also just, say it, I'm glad that we're re reconnected again. I our relationship's gonna be refreshed And bring it back to that discussion that needs to happen. The coherence in the right. Places, And and I can work together on that. Maybe way for us to see if, the conversations about what we really need public education to evolve into, can start happening again. Because what happened is it just became so political And opponents of reform came to make it so politicized, that everybody's just stayed away from it. And, cannot stay there. The happen And in thinking and creativity need to emerge. I
Alan Bersin:I'd do that.
Alan Bersin:And bring something to this. I, when we worked together 20 years ago, Which now at a point in life where I don't have time for bologna. So don't remember you having time for baloney. I a lot of baloney, particularly at those school board meetings, But seriously This, getting the convention? Yeah. Getting new charter.
Jed Wallace:Yeah.
Alan Bersin:Is, be delighted to work with you on and the people out there.
Alan Bersin:And, last message, for today is, yeah. None really know where this is gonna end up. So thing is, maintain your integrity. Maintain your confidence, in the ability that this will change. Hey,pective in my life and my knowledge of American history, we've been through tough times before. This particularly tough time. Yeah. But, was a tough time. The Civil War was a tough time.
The Jed Wallace:Absolutely Alan Bersin:
Closer to my parents.
Absolutely Alan Bersin:Yeah. So just, lift up, lift ourselves up And, sorry for ourselves. The a much more violent time of disruption, after the sixties. American history has seen this before. We've, time for People like you and people in the charter movement to redouble, their commitment and recognize that never comes easy and it always takes longer. And, onto something Public, in is in store for a great change.
Jed Wallace:I to continue to talk about it with you in ahead.
Jed Wallace:Your ongoing interest in it and your willingness to share perspective. ''Cause some folks, They time and the last thing they want to do is crack open stuff again. And to do so today, And in the years ahead, could be a really important addition to the national conversation.
Alan Bersin:Thank you, Jed.
