The power of being in relationships, whether personal or professional, is unwavering and has been covered in many different facets on our podcast. However, when the relationship is overly demanding, does not respect you throughout, and it provides no opportunities to keep growing and moving forward, it is time to move on. How do you proceed with ending such a relationship, especially a narcissistic one, that can be toxic in nature and also be dangerous? Attorney and survivor of two narcissistic relationships, Stephany Ann, joins the show to share her in-depth perspective, along with tips as to become the "star of your own story" again through her emotional freedom technique (EFT), along with sharing sound advice for those that may be struggling to regain their voice. It all starts with your belief in yourself, and that you deserve to have better not only in your relationships, but in what you are able to accomplish and not be held back from anymore.

WARNING: This episode may be triggering for some as it discusses narcissistic relationships and describes in-depth details as it relates to being in one. For those that are sensitive to this subject, although very educational, please keep this in mind when listening to this episode and seek help for yourself (and others) that may be trying to escape such a relationship.

Guest Bio

Stephany is an extraordinary woman, an attorney, recipient of the Governor's Award for Advocacy With Survivors of Domestic Violence, and international best-selling author who triumphed over narcissistic abuse. With two marriages to narcissists behind her, she’s harnessed the transformative power of the Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) to guide others on their path to healing and personal growth. Her transformation came when she shifted from “why me” to “for me”.

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Intro/Outro By: Michael Dugan, Podcast Host: Voice4Chefs

Welcome to the podcast where relationships, confidence, and

2

determination all converge into

an amazing, heartfelt experience.

3

This is Speaking From The Heart.

4

Joshua: Welcome back to episode

number 116 of Speaking from the Heart.

5

Today, we have Stephany Ann with

us, and Stephany is an extraordinary

6

woman, an attorney, recipient of the

Governor's Award for Advocacy with

7

Survivors of Domestic Violence, and

international best selling author who

8

triumphed over narcissistic abuse.

9

With two marriages to narcissists behind

her, she's harnessed the transformative

10

power of the emotional freedom

technique to guide others on their

11

path to healing and personal growth.

12

Her transformation came when she

shifted from why me to for me,

13

and I love that last part because

that's what this has been all about.

14

It's really helping others to see why

they do things, but yet at the same

15

token, why they do it for themselves.

16

I've had many guests on this show that

have shared the perspective that Stephany

17

has shared today, but not quite in the way

in which I was really riveted by not only

18

the people that she's had in her life in

which she's had to have freedom from, but

19

she goes into so much depth about a topic

that I think is overlooked, which I have

20

to put this disclaimer out there for my

listeners that might be struggling with

21

somebody that might be toxic, abusive,

or even narcissistic for that matter.

22

No matter what happens, I want

you to know that there is always

23

freedom, and you have to exercise

that freedom by asking for help.

24

That is the first step, and there's many

local domestic abuse clinics, and even

25

places where you can go to be safe, even

if you have children for that matter,

26

to be able to know that you can escape

from that overall persecution that you

27

might be feeling, because let's face it,

Stephany's story, hands down, isn't just

28

about that freedom, isn't about reclaiming

what's ahead of you, but also knowing that

29

there is always hope, that there's always

an opportunity for you to be the star

30

of your own story, if you're willing to

take advantage of it, one step at a time.

31

But with that, let's go to the episode.

32

All right, we're here with Stephany Ann.

33

Stephany, thanks for sharing

your heart with us today.

34

Stephany: Hey, thank you

so much for having me.

35

Joshua: Yeah, thank you so much, and

I'm really excited to be interviewing

36

you for a variety of reasons, because

as the audience already heard a little

37

bit about your background and what you

are all about, and I really want to

38

jump into the age old question because I

actually had this as an aspiration myself

39

growing up is that you're an attorney.

40

Now, I never made it to be an attorney.

41

I took the LSATs and I was saying to

myself, "Nope, I don't feel like I can do

42

this.", so, question one is, what made you

want to be an attorney, and then number

43

two, maybe you can tell us a little bit

about what kind of attorney you are?

44

Stephany: What's funny is I actually

never wanted to be an attorney either.

45

Going to law school

was an advanced degree.

46

My path was the state department,

working for the embassy, becoming an

47

ambassador and living a life of travel

and diplomacy, so that was my route,

48

but when I was an undergrad, I started

working at the prosecutor's office and

49

that's actually where I became a domestic

violence advocate, and so, kind of in

50

the back of my head, I was like, "Okay.

51

I could do prosecution work, or I could go

on to the state department in law school."

52

I actually studied international law

and trial law, and again, my path was

53

towards the state department until I

found out my first husband, the covert

54

narcissist, was having a bunch of

affairs and he gave me the choice to

55

give up my career, and have children

and have a family, or he was leaving.

56

Joshua: Wow, and it's funny when you

said that you had the opportunity

57

to work for the state department

or actually go down that path-

58

Stephany: I did.

59

Yeah.

60

Joshua: Yeah.

61

Yeah.

62

I actually worked for the department

of justice when I did my last

63

internship before graduating with my

bachelor's, so it's ironic a little

64

bit with how we both have somewhat of

a similar career when it comes to that.

65

You just did it.

66

I just didn't, and that's okay, but-

67

Stephany: Yeah.

68

Joshua: When you're talking

about your first marriage.

69

I mean, I'm assuming and I'm not married,

and my audience knows this already.

70

I haven't been able to find the one in

my life and that's okay because I think

71

we all have that timing in our lives,

but I often ask myself, "Well, when

72

people get married and they go through

these relationships", which I've had

73

plenty of clients that have gone through

certain similar circumstances as you.

74

I have seen where they have either had

the choice of wanting to work through

75

it, or they realized that they need

to have a complete new start, so I

76

wonder if you could just tell a little

bit about your story of your first

77

marriage and how it got to be where

you found out that he was a narcissist

78

and he was hurting you and abusing you.

79

Stephany: Yeah.

80

Well, I didn't know he was a narcissist

for a really, really, really long time.

81

It's just his behaviors changed, and so,

we got married right before I went to law

82

school, and when you're single, and you

have no children, it is so easy to feed

83

into the narcissist need for excessive

supply, so if I can just define a few

84

terms here, so if you remember back from

Greek mythology, Narcissus was a man

85

who fell in love with his reflection,

and so to be considered a narcissist,

86

you have to meet the 5 of the 9 traits,

and so 1 of the 1st traits is you have

87

this grandiose sense of self importance,

a preoccupation with fantasies of

88

unlimited power, success, wealth, beauty,

whatever that is, narcissists have this

89

belief that, one is special and only

could be understood by special people.

90

They have this need for excessive

admiration and adoration, a

91

sense of entitlement, and you

know, they're very arrogant.

92

They have this very arrogant, haughty

behavior, but the thing is that they lack

93

empathy, and they will exploit you to

get whatever they want, and for someone

94

to be considered a true narcissist, they

have to meet at least five of these nine

95

traits, and so it is very difficult

in the beginning of a relationship to

96

even know you're with a narcissist,

and to even be thinking about that.

97

Who's thinking about this?

98

20 years ago, I wasn't

thinking about that.

99

It wasn't even in my radar.

100

My background was in domestic violence, so

I spent several years at the prosecutor's

101

office as a domestic violence advocate,

and I actually had won the governor's

102

award for my work with victims and

survivors of domestic violence, and

103

so now here I am in this marriage.

104

Something is off, it's not normal,

it's not typical, but it also

105

doesn't fit the definition of

traditional domestic violence the

106

way it was defined 20, 30 years ago.

107

20, 30 years ago, it was really

just focused on physical violence,

108

or you had so many judges and

prosecutors say, "Well, there's no

109

domestic violence in my county."

110

Okay, but we never really talked

about the psychological and emotional

111

abuse, and so for me, when I went off

to law school, I was not able to give

112

him all the attention that he wanted,

all the admiration, the adoration.

113

Now, I had to shift my focus to my

studies, and for someone who took the

114

LSAT and thought about going to law

school, law school is very challenging.

115

It's time consuming.

116

It became my entire life, and he even told

me at one point, he's like, "I don't want

117

to hear you talk about the law anymore.

118

I'm not interested.

119

Go find study people."

120

Joshua: Wow.

121

Stephany: So it's like he shut me

out and then he looked outside for

122

his source of supply because he

still needed all this admiration.

123

He needed someone to worship him.

124

He needed someone to fawn all over him,

and so it was during my last year of

125

law school, when I found out that he

was having all these emotional affairs

126

and maybe physical affairs, I don't

know the whole extent, but for me, and

127

I think for many people at the time,

we would just label that as cheating.

128

"Well, they're just a cheater."

129

I never hear people say, "It's abuse.",

and so you have cheating over here

130

on one side, and abuse over here.

131

"Well, they're just a cheater."

132

"They always cheat."

133

"He is cheater."

134

No, that's psychological and emotional

abuse, and so it took me many years, and

135

even after our divorce for me actually

to recondition my brain to be like, "Oh.

136

No, Stephany.

137

That was psychological

and emotional abuse.

138

Cheating is abuse and cheating

is what a lot of narcissists do."

139

Joshua: I'm curious.

140

What was one of the first

signs that you realized that

141

he was actually a narcissist?

142

Was there something that really stood

out after a while, especially during

143

that first marriage, and I only reason

I ask you this is maybe my listeners are

144

actually in a relationship, and they don't

really realize that there's these tall

145

tale signs, so I'm wondering if for you,

maybe you have some insight as to what

146

you saw in yours and maybe you have some

general warning signs that you can give

147

to somebody that is listening to this,

that is going through such a relationship.

148

Stephany: Yeah, and

actually it will all unfold.

149

I will explain the cycle

of narcissistic abuse-

150

Joshua: Perfect!

151

Stephany: And so the cycle

of narcissistic abuse.

152

You have the first cycle is the

idolization phase, then you have

153

the devaluation, love bonding phase,

and then you have the discard.

154

In the beginning of a relationship

with a narcissist, it is wonderful.

155

It is like the most perfect

relationship you could ever ask for.

156

They put you on this pedestal,

and who doesn't want that?

157

Who doesn't want all this

admiration for themselves?

158

They almost worship you and praise

you and you can do no wrong.

159

They love everything about you.

160

You will hear phrases like,

"Oh, we are soulmates."

161

"I manifested you."

162

"We are destined to be

together.", and they mirror you.

163

They mirror your values.

164

You essentially fall in love with

yourself, and you don't realize that all

165

of this is going on, so I always tell

people, first red flag, if it's too good

166

to be true, it probably is too good to

be true, and so for me with both my ex

167

husbands, they put me on this pedestal

and they loved everything about me.

168

They wanted to talk to me all the time.

169

Who doesn't love a guy who

opens up and talks all the time?

170

It's like you've found

this perfect person.

171

They want to hear your stories.

172

They want you to talk.

173

They want to hear about your adventures.

174

They want to know what your struggles

are, and they're the best listeners

175

and they make you feel so comfortable

that you start opening up and you start

176

pouring your heart out to these people,

and mind you, this might just be in the

177

first month and you have fallen in love.

178

This is how quickly it happens because

it becomes very intense, very quick,

179

and it's almost like you are under this

spell, so that's the idolization phase.

180

Once they have you hooked, and some

of these relationships move really

181

quickly, like my second husband, we met

and got married within the same year.

182

Joshua: Wow, that's

really quick, actually.

183

Yeah.

184

Stephany: It's very quick, but

some people, it's within a month.

185

It's within two months.

186

My second husband, I was older.

187

I had already been married

once, and it was like, "Okay,

188

well, I'm in love with you.

189

I mean, you have just mirrored me."

190

I didn't know that at the time, so once

they have you hooked, then the mask

191

starts to come off, and then this is

where in the devaluation phase, this is

192

where they start manipulating you, and

this is where all the gaslighting comes

193

in, and for listeners who don't know,

truly understand what gaslighting is,

194

gaslighting is when you manipulate another

person into doubting their perceptions,

195

experiences, or understanding of events.

196

It is a form of emotional abuse.

197

It is a highly calculated

form of manipulation, and it

198

involves destabilizing you,

as an individual, over time.

199

It is coercive control, and

why narcissists use gaslighting

200

is because it helps them avoid

any blame or responsibility

201

for their behaviors or actions.

202

They play on your insecurities

and they attack your self esteem.

203

Now remember, in the first stage, you have

just told them all of your insecurities.

204

Joshua: Mmhmm.

205

Stephany: My second husband knew that my

first husband cheated on me for 14 years.

206

He knew I had issues with women and he

would use that, so during the devaluation,

207

when he's gaslighting, he would say

stuff; they call it triangulation.

208

He would say stuff like, "Oh,

I just went to the store and

209

this really hot woman was there.

210

All these girls were there and

they're having a party, and

211

they invited me to come over.

212

I'm kind of thinking about

going over to this party.

213

I don't know.

214

Should I go to the party?

215

Should I not?"

216

Who does that?

217

Joshua: Yeah, right?

218

Who wants to go through and be like-

219

Stephany: Who does that!?

220

Joshua: Yeah.

221

Who wants to come to the party?

222

Anybody?

223

Anybody?

224

Like raising your hands?

225

Yeah, of course I'm going to go because I

have this sort of intuition that I should,

226

because you're putting this in my mind.

227

Yeah.

228

Stephany: Right, and so he would start

to do stuff like that, so they take

229

your insecurities, they take everything

that you were vulnerable and you

230

opened up, and expose yourself to them.

231

They take all that, and they try

to bring you down to their level,

232

because here's one of the myths.

233

When I was talking to you about

the traits, the narcissistic

234

traits, you would think like,

"Wow, this person is so confident.

235

This person is so secure in who they are.

236

This person has a a very

secure ego and sense of self.

237

No, it's actually the opposite.

238

They are the most fragile people.

239

They have the most fragile ego.

240

They hate themselves, and so during

the devaluation phase, they want to

241

bring you down to their level, and so,

they will start doing the stuff like

242

what my ex-husband was doing, like the

triangulations, just all this gaslighting,

243

all this manipulation, because again,

if you look at the overarching piece

244

of narcissistic abuse, it is similar.

245

It is the same with domestic violence.

246

It is power and control.

247

They manipulate and they use

gaslighting to control you.

248

They want to control your reactions.

249

If they get a reaction from you, whether

it's a negative reaction or a positive

250

reaction, they have controlled you.

251

Joshua: This is so much like manipulative

communication in a way, because I do

252

public speaking coaching, and I know we

didn't really talk about that beforehand,

253

Stephany, but I do a lot of that, and

a lot of it is about how do you use the

254

power of the audience to your favor.

255

What do you know about your audience?

256

What do you think they're

trying to achieve?

257

I work with a lot of people trying to

develop messaging that helps them so much

258

with not only communicating that, but also

getting that positive outcome, but change

259

the word positive with what I just said

to negative, and now we have narcissism,

260

and I'm just blown away because we have

so much power that we utilize, and I

261

don't even think for a second that I

don't think I would ever want to do that,

262

and it's weird because I'm a male, and I

know that most males have that tendency

263

too, because they're in a position of

power, most of them, but, thank God,

264

society I feel is changing, and I think

that everybody, men, women, whatever

265

you identify as has that opportunity.

266

I have friends that are homosexual and I

think that they have awesome friendships

267

and have awesome opportunities and

relationships to be able to do just

268

as much, so when I hear all this, I'm

thinking, "How'd you get through this?

269

How does somebody actually get

through this to get to the other

270

side, especially after two marriages?"

271

I'm really curious.

272

Stephany: Yeah.

273

Well, let's get to the third phase

of narcissistic abuse, so we were

274

just talking about devaluation,

so they will gaslight you.

275

They will manipulate you.

276

They will do all this stuff, bring

you down, make you feel horrible,

277

make you hate yourself, make you

feel like everything is your fault,

278

and so then you focus all your

time on trying to fix yourself.

279

Well, maybe if I go to therapy or maybe

if I do this or that, and they will make

280

you try to feel like you are the one with

a disordered personality, because what

281

you have here is all of this gaslighting,

all of this manipulation, and then you

282

have this intermittent reinforcement

of they devalue you, and then they

283

come back and they love bomb you.

284

Now they're complimenting you.

285

Now they've completely switched

personalities, and so you'll hear a lot

286

of people say, "Well, my ex had this Dr.

287

Jekyll, Mr.

288

Hyde personality."

289

They can switch back and forth, and

so it becomes very confusing; all

290

this intermittent reinforcement, and

what all of this does is create this

291

thing called cognitive dissonance,

and cognitive dissonance is just

292

this big, giant fog of confusion.

293

You don't know what is true, what is

not true, what is reality, what is not

294

reality, and because of this intermittent

reinforcement, the good, the bad,

295

the good, the bad, the good, the bad.

296

It creates a trauma bond,

and a trauma bond is very

297

similar to Stockholm syndrome.

298

If you think about it, you have the

kidnapper, and you have the victim,

299

where they fall in love with each other.

300

It's not true love.

301

It's not actually love at all.

302

It's a trauma bond, and so a trauma

bond forms, and this is why so many

303

people find it very difficult and

very challenging to leave these

304

relationships, because of the trauma bond.

305

It's very similar to a drug

addiction, and I even had said that

306

multiple times in both my marriages.

307

"God, I feel like I'm addicted to you

and I don't know why.", and so if you

308

think about when people use drugs, the

first time they drugs, they get this

309

really high dopamine rush, and then

they use again, but every time they

310

use again, they never get to that first

high, but they keep using, thinking

311

that, "Well, if I use again, or maybe

if I use more, maybe I'll get that

312

first high again, that first rush."

313

Similarly,, with a trauma bond, with a

disordered personality like narcissism,

314

we know that they know how to love us.

315

We know that they know

how to treat us well.

316

We know that they know how to be kind

to us, because that's how they were in

317

the beginning, and so we hold on to that

when the times are bad and we say, "No.

318

We can change them.

319

We just got to push through and it will

be good again.", but similarly, to a drug

320

addict, every time you use, you never get

that first high, and in a narcissistic

321

relationship, every time you go through

the cycle, it gets worse and worse and

322

worse, until you have the final discard.

323

Discard is like you

discard your trash, right?

324

Joshua: Yeah.

325

Stephany: So they have either

used you up and you are no longer

326

exciting and interesting to them

and they have other supply and

327

they want to go get someone else.

328

They will discard you, or you find

worthiness within yourself and you leave.

329

Those are the only two ways that a

relationship with a narcissist ends.

330

Joshua: So, just so I have this

straight, both husbands that you had;

331

did they think that they could change

you and they thought that they would

332

be able to meet your expectations,

or was it the other way around?

333

Stephany: The opposite.

334

Joshua: The opposite-

335

Stephany: It is the opposite.

336

Many of us stay because, one, we start

to think that we are the issue, because

337

they will say, "We are the issue."

338

Well, my second husband will say,

"Well, you have all this unhealed

339

trauma from your first husband,

because of all the cheating.

340

I should be able to go to a

hot tub party with a bunch of

341

women and that should be okay.

342

You should be securing yourself with it."

343

Joshua: Wow.

344

Yeah.

345

Okay, so like they're kind of projecting

that, and you're like, "Oh yeah.

346

Absolutely.

347

That's fine.

348

You can go do whatever you want."

349

Stephany: No.

350

No.

351

We don't want them to go do that.

352

Joshua: Yeah, but we don't

want them to do that.

353

Yeah.

354

Wow.

355

Stephany: But you know, so then you

start thinking, "Well, if I go to

356

therapy and if I do this, and if I

change these things, if I change my

357

personality...", and so at the end of

a relationship with a narcissist, you

358

are the one who is actually changed.

359

Joshua: Wow.

360

Stephany: Because you have become

a different version of yourself.

361

It wasn't who you were in the

beginning, and so they don't change,

362

and that's a big takeaway is that

you can only work on yourself.

363

You cannot change another person.

364

They have to want to change for

themselves, and a lot of narcissists,

365

they're not willing to change, and

this is why, if you look at their

366

history, you'll see that they've jumped

from broken relationship to broken

367

relationship to broken relationship,

and why they quickly can cut you off,

368

and discard you, and move on to the

next relationship and have a very

369

serious, intense, another relationship

is because they feed on that fuel.

370

It fuels them.

371

It supplies them, and if they were to stop

and actually look within themselves; Oh.

372

It's destructive.

373

You can only live a double life, and

in fact, my first husband actually

374

committed suicide two months ago, because

it catches up to them, eventually, and

375

it's many layers and many layers and

many layers of protective self, and

376

I'm not a psychiatrist or psychologist.

377

I'm just speaking from my experience

and I can talk about the legal side

378

of dealing with a narcissist as well,

but it eventually catches up to them.

379

Joshua: Yeah.

380

I am processing all this, because

for me, I have had a lot of those

381

situations in my life where I feel

like I'm trying to just catch up to

382

whatever's happening, and maybe it's

not necessarily narcissism, but I'm

383

trying to emotionally appeal to somebody

else and make them feel that, "Oh.

384

Well, you are a million

dollars in my life.

385

Please accept me for who I am.", and I

feel in a way you're describing a lot of

386

my first 36 years of my life, which I'm

37 now, I definitely have learned and

387

grown and changed, and have definitely

helped others learn and grow and change

388

just as much as you have too, with what

you have been doing, and I think that is

389

so important lesson that we could easily

continue to be in those paths that we are

390

in, the kind of like your first husband,

and whether we decide to really choose

391

to accept to make those changes that

we need to make, or we end our lives, I

392

mean, it's a very, very tough, fine line

that my heart feels like it's almost

393

wanting to yearn a lot more towards you,

but like for this guy, like, come on.

394

There's got to be a way to get to the

other side and make you feel like you can

395

change what you always believed as that

pattern, that resonance inside of you.

396

I don't know.

397

This is such a fine line to walk on.

398

I feel challenged with what you just

said because of the techniques and

399

the ways in which we identify it, so

actually speaking of techniques, you

400

have something called the emotional

freedom technique that you have worked

401

on, and I'm wondering if you could share

a little bit of that with the audience.

402

Stephany: Yeah, so EFT is one of many

wonderful healing modalities out there,

403

and again, when you are coming out

of a relationship with a disordered

404

personality, they really say it is

like you have just left an occult and

405

you have been brainwashed, and this is

why so many people as well will say,

406

"Oh, well, time heals all wounds."

407

Not the wounds from being in a

relationship with a narcissist.

408

If I were to do nothing and just sit

here and pray and wait it out five, 10

409

years from now, I would still be stuck.

410

I would still be in the same

place, because time does not heal.

411

You actually have to do the hard work of

reconditioning, reprogramming, rewiring

412

your brain and your thought patterns, and

so, EFT, emotional freedom, techniques.

413

It's a tapping.

414

It's tapping, so it takes some Western

practices with some Eastern practices

415

and you tap on the meridian points of

the body, and you do several rounds.

416

The first round is really recognizing what

is coming up; what big, heavy emotion is

417

coming up, where you're feeling it in the

body, because our body holds onto trauma

418

and after being in relationships, Has been

a lot of trauma on you, and so you need to

419

feel where you're feeling that trauma, and

then sit with it, acknowledge it, and then

420

release it, and so the 1st round is really

acknowledging it and where you feel it.

421

The 2nd round is releasing, and then

I actually do a 3rd round where we tap

422

into the person we are becoming, and it's

just one of many powerful modalities out

423

there, and actually I found it in 2020.

424

2020 was such a confusing year, and

imagine that to the nth degree when you

425

are in a toxic relationship and the world

has shut down, because for me, my second

426

husband, we got married in December

427

I hadn't even been with him for a year.

428

We're still getting to know each

other, and his mask came off when the

429

world shut down, and so it was very

430

What is just the craziness of

431

behavior, and so, this again, was

why it was just very confusing,

432

but in 2020, I learned about EFT.

433

We had separated for several months

and I just needed something, and I

434

thought I was signing up to work with a

practitioner, but I actually signed up

435

to become a practitioner, and I love that

because the divine knows what we need

436

when we need it, and instead of me doing

five session with a practitioner, I did

437

hundreds of hours to become a certified

practitioner, but it just became my life.

438

I just spent so many hours, and

days, and weeks, and months, and now

439

years, working on healing myself and

reprogramming and rewiring my brain,

440

and so it's just a powerful modality to

rapidly heal from this type of trauma.

441

Joshua: It is, and it takes great

strength and great courage to be able

442

to move towards that, because it can

be oftentimes difficult, especially

443

if you're stuck in the emotions

of that, to be able to say, "Yes.

444

There's a path moving forward.",

and I've coached a lot of people,

445

even through my business, being able

to do that because it isn't just

446

necessarily, "Oh, here's a blueprint.

447

Good luck.", It is, "Wow.

448

There's a lot of emotion with this.

449

Let's process some of these emotions today

so that you can pave a way.", and I'm

450

not saying either that I'm a therapist,

and thank you for saying that too.

451

You are an attorney though, which is

actually interesting in itself, being

452

able to discuss those legality aspects of

it, but I think you are representing what

453

many people have gone through, especially

since the pandemic, and I've had plenty

454

of people find their calling here on

the show, and it's always interesting.

455

It gives me a warm, tingling sensation

every time to just hear about those

456

unique, captivating stories, and

yours is definitely up there when

457

it comes to, "I need to find my

strength.", and I love that so much.

458

Stephany, getting closer to the end of

her time, but I wanted to talk about the

459

fact that you're an author and you have

written some works that are part of some

460

larger works, and I'm wondering if you

could share a little bit of that for us

461

.

Stephany: Yeah, so I was asked to contribute a chapter on a book on

462

leadership qualities of a leader, and I

looked at it through the lens of being

463

in domestic violence and working with

women who have gone through abuse with

464

a narcissist, and I kind of just talk

about what I do and the encouragement,

465

the resilience, and, we have these

leaders; these great leaders, but a

466

lot of these great leaders have been

through hardships, have been through

467

traumas and what makes them so great

is that they've overcome all of that.

468

We have the resilience.

469

We have the tenacity.

470

We have the strength, and in the end, we

have what's called like post secondary

471

I can't even think of the word; post

secondary traumatic something, but it's

472

where we can take what we've been through

and we can empower others with it, and

473

so for me, it's sharing my story, and I

don't like to believe that we go through

474

all this trauma to keep it inside, and

one of the things too that I've learned

475

over the years, and even 20 years ago

when I was working in domestic violence

476

was that shame wants to keep us small.

477

Shame wants us to not share our stories,

and even the narcissist would say,

478

"No one is going to hear your story.

479

No one is going to believe you.

480

You are not going to amount to anything.

481

You are worthless.

482

No one is ever going to love you.

483

You might as well just stay with me and

just take my abuse.", and so what we

484

have to do, we have to have more people

coming out and sharing their stories

485

and talking about this, because then

there's light and shame can't handle the

486

light or the truth or vulnerability or

authenticity, and that's why I share my

487

story, and I encourage other people to

share their story too, and now as I've

488

begun to share my story, I get so many

emails all the time from people like,

489

"You just described my relationship.

490

You just described my father

when I was growing up.

491

You just described my mother

when I was growing up.

492

You've described my girlfriend.",

or people are like, "Wow, I haven't

493

thought about this relationship,

but 20 years ago, when I was in

494

college, he was a narcissist."

495

Let's start talking about it.

496

Joshua: It's always important to be

able to share it, right, and I think

497

that we have forums, like a podcast,

or we have a television, we have

498

documentaries, whatever medium it is,

and we often hear the one side of it.

499

We hear the both sides of it; might hear

three or four different perspectives.

500

It depends on who you have and what

kind of format, but I think hearing

501

it from somebody that has actually

gone through it is just the power

502

in itself, and I think that we often

undervalue it because we hear so many

503

times those stories and we're like, "Eh.

504

I still don't want to listen to that

pattern.", and I hear some of those

505

things from other people of, "Well, I

know what they're trying to say, and I

506

know that it's really important, but I

still don't want to listen to it.", but

507

it isn't until you actually go through

it that sometimes people then finally

508

start to understand and listen, but yet,

like you said, there's a lot of shame,

509

and shame should not be the part that

holds us back so much, and actually

510

that leads into my final question for

you, to wrap up, because I noticed this

511

in your bio that I read to everybody.

512

It says that your transformation

came when you shifted from the

513

"why me?", to the "for me."

514

Most times I ask people,

"What is your why?"

515

What is your for me, Stephany,

that you want to share with

516

everyone today as we wrap up?

517

Stephany: Yeah, well, my for me is that

the why me is when we are stuck in this

518

victim mentality, this victim state of

mind, this victim mindset, where all

519

this bad stuff is constantly happening

to us, and when you're in the victim

520

mindset, you can't see the lessons,

and if you can't see the lessons, you

521

don't know what to heal and what to

release, and if you don't learn the

522

lessons, you repeat the patterns.

523

When you shift to for me, now, you

become the star of your story, not the

524

victim, not the person on the sidelines

of your story, when you shift to for

525

me, you become the star of your story.

526

Then you can see the people in your life.

527

For me, for so long, when I was

stuck in the victim mindset, I

528

saw my two ex husbands as monsters

trying to destroy my life.

529

When I was able to change my perspective

and see them not as monsters, but as

530

teachers who were here to propel me

into my empowerment, but also to teach

531

me lessons, and from those lessons,

I gained a tear field, hard, valuable

532

nuggets of wisdom, and when you can

make that shift in your mindset, you

533

can see where you need more compassion.

534

You can actually forgive and

remember forgiveness is for us.

535

It is not for them.

536

You can forgive, you can release,

you can let go and you become

537

empowered, so that is the for me.

538

Joshua: It's so important to feel like

you can be empowered and I think that

539

we, as a society, sometimes lose that

perspective, because we have other

540

people telling us what we need to do,

what we need to do in a particular day,

541

what we need to do with our money, what

we need to do with our lives, what we

542

need to do, the list goes on and on on

that what to dos, but when you say it

543

that way, when you say it that, "It's

for us to be able to have that control.

544

We could be the stars of our own

show.", I think that is so true in

545

many aspects, not just the way in which

we can empower ourselves, but also

546

empower others, and I love that so much.

547

You know, I thought for a moment

during this interview that you were

548

going to tell me you were going to

sue me because of being an attorney.

549

Thank goodness you're not.

550

Instead, what I find is that you gave

me so many new perspectives on the

551

term narcissism and for all those

reasons, and I think for all the things

552

that you do to continue to carry this

conversation forward, which by the way,

553

congratulations on the Governor's Award

of Excellence for doing such work.

554

Stephany: Hey, thank you.

555

Joshua: I want to thank you,

Stephany, for being part of

556

Speaking From The Heart today.

557

It was really a privilege not only

to hear a good part of your story,

558

but also, to hear a good part of

you, because I think the good part

559

is what we need to hear, and I'm glad

that you're not carrying that shame.

560

I'm glad that you're empowering

others to do that, so thank you.

561

Stephany: Thank you.

562

Yes.

563

Joshua: Stephany's story is a reminder

that there's not only people in this

564

world that are narcissistic, not only

are there people that are abusers,

565

but there are also people that are

willing to take advantage of others,

566

regardless of what might be going on

in someone's life, in order to exploit

567

them for their finances, for their

social status, for whatever cultural

568

demands they might be able to achieve.

569

There are always going to be people that

are putting you down, striking you out,

570

crossing them off their list, but yet at

the same time, you have to realize that

571

there is always going to be justice at

the end of the day, whether it's going to

572

happen today, tomorrow, even a few months

from now, a few years from now, maybe not

573

even happening at all, but the real fact

of the matter is that advocacy is what

574

will bring this awareness of this topic,

not only to the forefront, but it will

575

also allow us to keep moving forward, to

be able to be diplomatic, to be able to

576

prosecute those individuals that should

be prosecuted for their crimes, but I have

577

to say, somebody that has been through

so many different things in their life,

578

but yet has become a champion of willing

to be able to survive, to be able to help

579

others, really defines the purpose of

why we need to speak from the heart; to

580

be able to communicate what is really on

our minds, our hearts for that matter.

581

The very essence of why we even started

this podcast in the first place, but

582

we have to realize that we can't feed

into this narcissism either, and I

583

love that today's story from Stephany

really exemplifies different areas of

584

life where we can not only take control

of that, but we have to be able to

585

learn the traits that define us, that

allow us to dedicate the time needed to

586

address these all important situations.

587

Which begs the question: What time are

you giving yourself to be able to learn

588

and grow in the ways in which you should

be avoiding these types of topics?

589

I know that's easier said than done.

590

We feel that there's a sense of comfort,

even if we're being abused, which is

591

a very sensitive subject in itself,

and I realize that might be something

592

of a triggering point for many of us,

but we have to learn that if we don't

593

say anything, if we keep on enabling

it, we're just as guilty as the

594

people that are continuing to push and

prosecute against these individuals.

595

We have to learn to be able to say

something, and say it with conviction,

596

which is why it's so hard for us to

really learn to understand why these

597

people do the things that they do.

598

What is the definition of perfect?

599

Can we do no wrong?

600

Are we destined to always

have to be together?

601

Should we maintain a relationship

even though you are abusing me?

602

This gaslighting phenomenon, which

I love that Stephany talked about

603

today, is really the emotional abuse.

604

It's destabilizing any type

of responsibility that anybody

605

has, and really points the

finger at the other person.

606

It's not my fault.

607

It's your fault for this happening

in the first place, and those types

608

of conversations are not only very

triggering, but they also corner

609

somebody, thinking that they have no

ability to be able to speak up, which

610

is why my voice in this ever changing

world, something that I even work on

611

with my clients at Your Speaking Voice

LLC, is truly important for them to feel

612

empowered, but to do it in a safe way.

613

Now, I don't claim to be any type of

domestic violence individual, or do

614

I claim that I want to help people

that are going through some of the

615

most toughest moments in their lives.

616

I think that's where social workers,

therapists, even psychiatrists for that

617

matter, are trained specifically be

able to coach these individuals through

618

some of the most painful moments they

might ever experience in their lives.

619

In my practice of coaching, I'm talking

about being able to find the words deep

620

inside of yourself to be able to speak

them, into existence, which sometimes

621

can be very fragile in themselves.

622

Being able to learn and understand

the importance of not only keeping

623

that momentum going, to be able to

keep growing, even though you have

624

all these different things that are

happening in your life, even those

625

that are narcissists in nature.

626

You have to understand that

gaslighting is not a joke.

627

It happens, and it happens way too often,

even in the social media atmosphere

628

that we live in, and then you have

to look at the other side of this.

629

The trauma bond that we often create,

which trauma in itself is something that

630

we've talked about in a few episodes

now, about the importance of recognizing

631

it, being able to push through it, to

work through what you might have as

632

an association with that connection,

because love bombing, especially when you

633

think that you really love somebody, and

you're blowing them out of the water, you

634

might not be doing it in the right way.

635

You might be doing it in a bad way.

636

Love bombing in itself

is a very negative term.

637

We have to understand that if we create

these relationships that are very toxic

638

in nature, and we're throwing people under

the bus, how are we ever going to have

639

discourse, or even cognitive dissonance,

to be able to separate ourselves from the

640

relationships that we should not be in?

641

We can't keep feeling this feeling

.Forever It's almost like having

642

that rush of drugs coming through

us This is why you have to heal from

643

the wounds that might be transpiring.

644

You have to find a way to find that

courage inside of you to be able to

645

keep working on yourself, and that, I

know, can be the toughest thing that

646

you will ever do in your entire life,

but trust me on this, from somebody

647

that has gone through so much trauma

myself, in a variety of different

648

ways, and have had so many people share

their awesome stories about how they've

649

worked through that, there is hope.

650

There is always hope.

651

Stephany talked about, being as an

author, about the different areas that

652

are involved with having these hard times,

working through and getting that strength,

653

despite having two individuals in her

life that have caused all these different

654

pains and emotions to keep finding

the strength to keep moving forward.

655

Shame, oftentimes, is the bigger precursor

to why we never decide to move forward.

656

Shame.

657

You know, I've heard shame so many

different times in so many different

658

ways, but even in this episode today, I am

reflecting on the fact that shame can have

659

so many different types of consequences.

660

As this episode comes out, this

happens a few weeks after we've

661

had so many different guests, and

even so many different experiences

662

in my own life, personally, that

have occurred through shame.

663

Shame, in itself, ridicules us, makes

us feel less of a person, push us down.

664

Shame really makes us feel like we're

worthless, and it pushes us down into

665

something that we never thought we could

be; the most negative version of ourself

666

that we could ever experience, but yet,

for some people, shame is all that they

667

have to hold on in order to survive, and

the weird thing about shame is that it

668

comes in so many different forms: the

financial, not having enough money, so

669

you feel shame knowing that you can't

afford certain things for your kids, your

670

significant other, or maybe even others in

your family that are trying to celebrate.

671

Let's look at the social side:

maybe you're not as inquisitive,

672

loquacious, even talented like

some of your counterparts, but yet,

673

you're held to a higher standard.

674

You're being disenfranchised.

675

You feel as if you're being pulled

down into something that you can

676

never escape, but yet, shame has

another weird component to it.

677

It's the patterns that we keep

repeating, reinforcing the fact

678

that shame is here to stay.

679

In other words, as we continue to have

the bad experiences, the negative thoughts

680

that surround us, we start to live in

a life in which we will never have any

681

escape and that the only people that we

think love us, and care about us, are

682

the very narcissists that actually don't.

683

They actually want to hear themselves

feel valued, but they are going

684

about it, not only in the wrong way,

but they're also treating others

685

like disgusting pieces of trash.

686

I can't tell you how many times in my

life I've had to escape shame, whether

687

that is by my own personal vendetta, or,

going against somebody that I knew was

688

creating such a bad impression about me.

689

Even if I was telling myself that

story, maybe not even based on facts,

690

I was learning, every step along the

way, of how important it is to keep

691

learning, and growing, and respecting

the patterns that are surrounding me.

692

As a matter of fact, that respect, I

thought I had to earn with every single

693

relationship that I ever entered,

but Stephany said something that will

694

forever change me, because of our

experience here on this show, and that

695

is to be the star of your own story.

696

You are the only one that has

that power to be able to do that.

697

You can receive so much help, so much

guidance, so many opportunities to be

698

an advocate, to be able to feed into

all kinds of different aspects of

699

your life, both positive and negative.

700

You can continue to wrestle with the

question of being perfect, figuring out

701

whether you are destined to be with that

person that abuses you, that gaslights

702

you, that throws love bombs, that creates

that trauma bond, maybe makes you have

703

that rush, almost as if you're taking

drugs, but I want you to know that all

704

of those things are just sensations.

705

You're feeling those five senses.

706

If you really are serious about taking

control of your life, not only should you

707

seek help, whether that is professional

or through a coach, but I'm telling

708

you, your value is worth so much more

than you might even imagine, even as you

709

listen to these words today, but you have

to learn that you are the star of your

710

story, and that the patterns that you

have been repeating do not need to be

711

repeated again, because let's face it.

712

You have the strength to move forward.

713

You have the courage to keep pressing

forward, and oh yes, you have the

714

opportunity, of all opportunities,

to change the course, whether

715

you think shame is in control

or not, to keep moving forward.

716

I want to end this episode by

saying, it's really important that

717

you get the help that you deserve.

718

I appreciate the time Stephany gave

today to share this perspective of

719

what she's been through, but if you

really do need help with all kinds of

720

domestic violence situations that you're

experiencing, or maybe you need help to

721

get out of a very bad situation, please,

no matter where you are in the world,

722

reach out to your local authorities.

723

Reach out to the people that really

care about you and tell them what's

724

really going on, but also know this.

725

You're the only one that can control

the responsibility that you have to

726

change what is happening around you,

and just know that there are people

727

that truly care and would never want

to see you gone from this earth.

728

You are the most important thing

that might matter to them, and

729

you didn't even realize it.

730

Make the call.

731

Save your life, and be somebody that

you never thought you could ever be.

732

Be the better person on the other side,

because people like you can then be on my

733

show to tell your story, and spread that

awareness, just as we have heard today.

734

Thanks for listening to episode

number 116 of Speaking From the

735

Heart, and I look forward to

hearing from your heart very soon.

736

Outro: Thanks for listening.

737

For more information about our podcast

and future shows, search for Speaking From

738

The Heart to subscribe and be notified

wherever you listen to your podcasts.

739

Visit us at www.yourspeakingvoice.biz

for more information about potential

740

services that can help you create

the best version of yourself.

741

See you next time.