For the 100th episode of The Lonely Chapter, my partner Molly interviews me.

We talk about why I started the podcast, what The Lonely Chapter means, and what I’ve learned from a hundred conversations about identity, growth, mental health, resilience, and connection.

We also get into the personal side of podcasting - the self-doubt, the pressure, the vulnerability, and the hope that these conversations might help someone feel less alone.

Whether you’ve been here from the start or this is your first episode, thank you for listening.

Takeaways

→ Why I started The Lonely Chapter

→ What “the lonely chapter” means

→ What 100 conversations taught me about growth, identity and purpose

→ Mental health, resilience and vulnerability

→ The personal cost of building a podcast

Hello and welcome to the show.

My name is Molly.

And today on the Lonely Chapter, we're doing things a little different now.

This is a really special episode.

I'm not only honoured, but this is Sam's hundredth episode.

We're going to be looking at the man behind the questions today.

Sam, welcome.

Thank you.

It's very interesting to be welcomed onto my own show, but I'm looking forward to it.

You're in the hot seat today.

How do you feel?

I feel good.

I feel ready.

Okay, let's get into the first question then.

So let's start with the reason behind the podcast.

What made you want to start a podcast?

And why was it important for you to base it off interesting people with interesting stories?

So it's the style of podcast I like to listen to.

So that interview style, learning from people, learning from people's life stories, learning from their knowledge bases as well.

So shows like Modern Wisdom, Diary of a CEO, Live well, Be well by Sarah Macklin as well, is another one that I listen to.

And I just really enjoy being a fly on the wall in those conversations.

And I suppose there's two parts of it.

The first part is a selfish one in that when I was listening to those conversations and one of the things I love to do is go away and have conversations after them.

And that's why my final question to every guest is I get them to leave a question for the listener to take away and start a conversation with.

Now when I listened to podcasts before having my own podcast, I would sometimes hear a response from a guest and want to ask a question in response to that and.

Or like pick up on a word or something they've said and the guests, sorry, the host wouldn't then do that, they wouldn't pick up on that bit.

They just go on to the next question.

And I was like, the only way that I will ever be able to like ask those follow up questions the way that I want to, is to start my own podcast.

And so there was.

That was the sort of selfish way, the selfish side of it for me to be able to get into the room with some of these people and some of the people I've been able to speak to over the last two years probably by this point is insane.

People I'd have dreamed of talking to for two minutes, running into them on the street, I've had hour, two hour long conversations with.

It's amazing.

So, but the other aspect of it is I'd like to help other people get the same out of what I Got out of podcasts and what I still get out of podcasts.

Yeah.

And hopefully by hearing people's stories and explaining what they know, where they've studied stuff and their knowledge base, sharing that information with the listener, who can then take that on and share it with other people who may need it.

So those are the sort of two sides to why I do it.

I love that as well, because I feel like there's this percentage, I guess, of people who stop podcasting, right?

Yeah.

So I think the average length is eight episodes in People Stop after.

I think I might get this wrong.

So I think out of all the podcasts that start, 90% of them are done by episode maybe eight or nine.

So as soon as you get to 21 episodes, you're in like the top 1% of podcasts in terms of episodes released.

That's brilliant.

The top 1% club.

Yeah.

Not many people make it there.

And now we're on 100.

You've done really well.

Crazy.

Following up from that, I want to know the reason and your listeners why you called it the Lonely Chapter.

So again, a lot of people will know the Lonely Chapter as an idea, and it comes from Chris Williamson and Alex Hormozi.

So they.

They came up with this idea called the Lonely Chapter.

And it's the idea that on a journey of self development or self improvement, once you make those decisions to start changing your habits and changing your behaviors and not going out on Friday nights to the pub and instead staying home and studying for something that you want to learn about or whatever it might be, you start to drift away from people.

So the people that you hang out with, people who are around you and you're in this lonely Chapter where you're not yet developed enough to be around the people you want to spend time with and you want to be friends with.

So that's the idea of the Lonely Chapter.

And when I was coming up with the name of the podcast, I've spoken again about how it took me maybe six months or so to start the show from first really thinking about it seriously.

And a lot of that time was spent on the name.

I threw sort of what I wanted it to be, what I envisioned into AI, until these online naming things, got some ideas, tried to work off those, and it just.

None of them, none of them sat with me.

And I just remember thinking how much it resonated with me and how much it resonated with other people.

And he still talks about it all the time.

It's one of his ideas that he still goes back to so frequently.

And I think that's because so many people do relate to it.

And it was in that moment I was like, that's gotta be the name of the show, because I relate to it and so many people do.

And it's based around self improvement, self development, and the unknowing of, like, where it's going, but just trusting that there'll be an end to it.

I remember when you were coming up with the names, it was a big process.

It was a.

And I resonated with it because I feel like we go through these lonely chapters in life, but actually there's a percentage of people that's going through the exact same thing.

Grieving, happiness, excitement, so on.

So I think you chose well with the name.

Yeah, Yeah.

I think as well, like, anyone with the mindset that they want to improve at some point in their life will probably go through more than one as well.

Yeah.

So you might go through one when you decide to go sober.

You might then go through another one when you decide to start a podcast and you're editing and prepping and you've seen how much it takes to prep today's episode, like I have.

It's a lot of effort that goes in.

So you start to choose where your time and energy goes, and that could be anything.

Someone wants to get really good at the drums, like, there's going to be a trade off.

You've not got infinite time or energy.

So.

Yeah, it's a good name, I think.

I think so as well.

Okay, so going back to when you started your podcast, do you feel like the reason and outcome you have now after your hundredth episode is different from when you first started?

No, I think.

I think I'm still in it for those two main reasons.

I think I didn't really know if it would have an impact.

So the selfish one that I spoke about, like, that's definitely happening.

I get to go in these rooms and have these chats.

It's amazing.

And I've met so many cool people and friends with so many cool people now through it, which is brilliant.

The other one, wanting people to get more out of it and to have what I had out of podcasts in.

In their own life.

I think I've seen that over time.

And, I mean, it's not a huge number of people that follow me on the various platforms and stuff.

But if you put those people in like a room and told me to stand on stage and speak to them, probably poo myself.

So it's, It's.

It's crazy to think that many people listen to me and obviously over time the numbers go up and it gets a bit more crazy if you really sit down and think about it.

But you're sort of numb to it and there's probably a good and bad in that.

I think not overthinking it is like really useful.

Yeah.

But also it's nice to think about it and every now and then there'll be a comment on like an Instagram reel or someone will comment on the actual podcast episodes.

You can podcast.

You can comment on all of the apps now as well.

So I've had a few on topics that I remember the first, I did a topic with Dr. Susie Bennett on male suicide and male mental health.

And she's done a lot of research in that space.

And there was a woman that commented saying basically how before listening to that episode, her perception was that men had it easy and basically a lot of what maybe is out in the media.

But after listening to that and listening to Susie explain her studies and the men that she's talked to who have contemplated it, attempted it, known people who have gone through with it, she, this woman on Instagram just said like she's completely changed her perspective on the topic.

And that's cool.

Like, that's.

That's.

I suppose what I was aiming to do with some of those episodes as well.

Yeah.

A.

To learn more myself, but also to help other people learn.

Like I always say, I want my listeners to learn alongside me.

Like we're in it together.

Just cause I'm the one in the room talking like they're in here too, because they're choosing to spend time listening to me and whoever I'm speaking to.

I guess that's what it's all about, isn't it?

Even though you might be changing people's perspective on quite intense topics, you're also getting the feedback on how they felt originally before even listening to you.

Yeah.

So that's fantastic.

Yeah.

Yeah.

To see that change is quite cool.

Yeah.

Let's dip into a bit more about who Sam is now.

Okay.

Okay.

I know in other episodes you've spoken about labels, labeling people, what's beneath them.

So if we strip away Sam as a firefighter, a podcaster, a fitness fanatic, once a Samaritan who Is Sam once.

A Samaritan, always a Samaritan?

Yeah.

I thought about that.

Because obviously, like you say, I've spoken about it a lot.

Yeah.

So I suppose my underlying values are things like integrity, empathy, honesty.

Yeah.

I think empathy is the one that's grown for me massively.

I don't know, sort of when that started.

I can't pinpoint it, but I think over time, my empathy has gone up massively.

Samaritans was a big part of that, because you're listening to things and you want that person to feel comfortable so you don't judge them.

And sometimes they'd say sort of slightly outrageous things, but it's not my place to judge them.

Yeah.

Because that person's obviously not well.

And me turning around and saying, well, actually, you're wrong, because that you shouldn't say that.

It's like, it doesn't help.

Yeah.

So I think I've definitely become a lot more empathetic.

Integrity, like, just acting in line with what I believe to be right in the moment.

And there's always going to be times when I get stuff wrong and naturally.

Yeah.

Like, we're all human beings.

Yeah.

And I think as long as in that moment I'm doing what I think is the right thing to do, then I can be quite comfortable in myself that I've done that.

And if something then goes wrong at the end and the other side of it, then I can reassess it and come back to it.

Yeah.

I don't really know what other ones come to mind.

I think those are the sort of three that I have.

One.

Go on.

Patience.

You're extremely patient.

Yeah.

I suppose you have a lot of patience.

I suppose that comes in with empathy slightly.

But I think.

I think a lot.

I've changed a lot in the last seven years.

Seven years.

Yeah.

Since I met you.

But it is true.

I have.

And, like, probably.

Yeah.

Just.

Just before that, I started watching a few things that were, like, old school Jordan Peterson.

Very simple stuff, like, get your life in order before judging others.

Be like, be honest to yourself, and then other stuff will follow.

It's like a lot of people put on a mask and pretend to be someone else and live these fake lives, and then they're never happy or fulfilled in themselves.

Yeah.

So I think I started to change a lot.

And I think stoicism was a massive thing for me that I, like, read about, and I really, really liked the idea of.

And I've used it on this podcast loads of times about the.

My stories of road Rage, which you.

You'll remember when you first met me, I was really quite.

Rage.

Quite angry on the roads.

And then it's almost like overnight I changed and then you were like, what's happened?

Is there any anger in you now?

Yeah, that was a big change.

Yeah.

And I think I've just become really aware and like, patience.

Yeah.

It's.

It's listening to what my mind says.

Right.

React this way now.

And then I go, hold on, patience, let's just let that brew.

Because obviously there's situations where you've got to act in the moment.

There's no other option.

Yeah.

But a lot of the time we act instinctively and maybe not logically.

And I think it's.

It's easy to say, it's quite difficult to do, but once you start practicing it and becoming aware of it, it's something you can work on quite easily.

Even if you react instinctively and then look back on it and go, that wasn't the best.

You can still reflect on it afterwards and learn from it, of course.

So, yeah, I think.

Yeah, I think patience is a good one as well.

Yeah.

I think there's a lot of reflection, isn't there?

I think every day is a day of learning and a day of reflecting and you can have a really bad day, but at the end there's somewhat.

Some form of reflection.

Yeah.

Moving on to now, adding those job roles back into the mix.

Do you feel like the roles that you're currently in navigate a pathway for you in terms of who you are now, or do you feel like being exposed to outside events, like challenges that you've done, like the Rock and the Half Ironman?

Do you feel like they build you as a person at the same time, balances your jobs?

Yeah.

So, I mean, I suppose the jobs are more permanent long term, and then the challenges are like sprinkled in like sugar.

Yeah.

Like little, like add ons.

Yeah.

So in terms of the jobs.

Yeah, I mean, the jobs that I do.

Well, I say the jobs.

I do one job.

I'm a firefighter at the minute.

Historically, I was a personal trainer and obviously I volunteered for the Samaritans as well, which I would classify in like a.

It's volunteer work.

And the podcast.

The podcast is absolutely not paying me any money.

But work, like, the amount of hours I put into it is like a job, so I'd also include that.

So again, just to go slightly back in time to sort of answer it as well, I think I didn't know it at the time, but looking back Now I think I have always wanted to help people in some way and that probably started with being a personal trainer.

I loved going to the gym.

I loved like the idea of being fit and healthy.

Yeah.

I loved learning about it and I wanted to help other people learn about it and get fitter and, and people who are new to the gym, like get them involved, get them, make them feel comfortable.

So I think the natural progression when the fire brigade were open for application was to go for that because that's helping people on the worst day of their life.

Yeah, there's obviously it's not, you're not always out on incidents, but when it does go that way you are.

You do need to like really be there for people and the Samaritans again, it's the worst day of someone's life potentially.

So that links in a lot with it.

And I've only made these connections like afterwards, like about a year ago when I looked back and I was like, there's a really common theme here.

And yeah, and the podcast, like I said before, one of the reasons was to help people learn a bit more and maybe make themselves feel less alone.

I think some of the conversations I have on this podcast are about like grief, loss and resilience.

A few, quite a few episodes on sort of leadership and some of those topics people can feel quite uncertain of.

And if someone is going through grief or loss, then hopefully by listening to someone else's story of it, whilst their story and their journey is going to be very different, it will hopefully make them feel a little less alone in that moment.

And yeah, like they've like this.

There are other people going through similar stuff and I think those, those sort of four things I've mentioned have helped shape me as well.

So yeah, I've chosen them because I like helping people, but they've also shaped me into the person that I am.

And then the, the add ons and the sprinkles, the, the fitness sort of challenges to the rock.

That was three triathlons, one on each of the Three Peaks in the uk.

So Ben Nevis, Scaffold, pike and Snowden.

And that was tough because that was again, that was like a 10 month period that was done over.

Yeah.

So it was a training behind the scenes that was probably the hardest bit, maintaining that fitness.

But I like to push myself in those scenarios and I again, I've got fleeting like interests, as you'll know.

Like I pick up a new hobby every two years.

I was like playing football when we met and then I gave that up to play tennis and I've given that up for Jiu Jitsu.

So I, like, I'm.

I'm an advocate for.

I'm an advocate for following what interests you now.

I don't think there's no point in waiting.

Like, if I'm.

If I'm playing tennis and I'm not enjoying it, why keep playing it?

Like, if I'm good, I'm not going to be good enough to be pro.

So ultimately it's just a hobby.

And if you don't enjoy your hobby, then it's pointless.

It becomes a chore, doesn't it?

Yeah.

You're not actually doing it for enjoyment.

Yeah.

But the things you do now.

Yeah.

Is pure enjoyment.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm enjoying the Jiu Jitsu and might be painful.

Yeah.

Every now and then.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And our marathon coming up this weekend, that's going to be painful.

But it's all just.

It's a mental experience as well, isn't it?

It's physical and mental.

Yeah.

And you've pushed me to do that more as well because of the commitment to challenges that you've done.

You signed us up for a lot of them, to be fair as well.

The 24 hour walk.

Yeah.

I kind of just found them, didn't I?

Or thought of them.

Yeah.

So I thought, oh, yeah, you're coming along with me.

You're doing this, you're going on the journey with me.

Yeah.

Which is good.

I think it makes us stronger.

And I think anyone out there who goes through those things with people that they are with, they'll appreciate that.

They'll appreciate the.

You go through some rough times in the middle of the night at 4am when your knees give him way and you get through it.

Yeah.

Okay.

So going back to your jobs now, the jobs that you have, including the podcast and the Samaritans and the PTN and the firefighting, do you feel like your stoic behavior has helped you in those roles now?

Do you feel like before you found stoicism, you were the same in those roles?

Do you feel like it's improved you looking at the patience and the empathy?

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

I think.

I mean, the podcast, I was already sort of in that mindset when I started it, but yeah, pting I would have changed sort of during that time as well.

But the firefighting, I suppose, is the bigger one, like where I'd have been going to incidents, high stress environments originally.

And I don't think I've ever been that flappy or anything like that.

But I've definitely, over time, got more calm and whether that's just getting to know the job more, getting to understand, getting a bit more knowledge in, getting more comfortable with the people that I work with, I don't know.

But now being in a junior officer role and having a different perspective of the fire ground and being more involved in the bigger picture of where this goes in an hour from now, it's very easy to turn up.

It's not very easy.

That's a lie.

But it's.

It's easier to sort of turn up, look at what's in front of you and just deal with that.

But then you've got to start adding on the layers after that of how's this going to impact the local area, how's it going to impact the people, how's it going to impact all these extra things in the surrounding vicinity?

So there's a lot of information coming in and you're taught to keep the span of information coming into five things.

Any more than that and it's like overload.

So you need to start delegating to break that down.

But I think I'm quite good when that information is coming in, of knowing which information I need and being comfortable with saying, like, just give me a second, I need this from you.

Yeah.

And then going back to that person and.

Yeah, I think.

I think.

I think it's helped.

I think it has helped change me, but then my job's also changed my job role within it.

So.

Yeah, yeah.

So let's go back to supporting people.

I think there's a side to it of generosity, but there's also an element where it teaches things about yourself.

Would you agree with that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Is there any elements that you've helped people with and you've taken on, I guess, learning outcomes from it?

Yeah, I think.

Yeah.

I mean, helping others, you obviously do it to help the person and you obviously do it for their benefit, but you learn about that experience.

So say, for example, someone is getting divorced.

I've never been married, so I don't understand what that would be like for that person.

I can roughly make it out and I can try and put myself in that position, but ultimately, I don't know, like, any of the legal stuff.

I don't know what that person's gonna have to go through.

All I can do is support them and be there for them.

So I'll do that.

I'll be there for them, I'll help them.

But along the journey, I'll get a glimpse into what they're going through.

And I sort of see the process.

I'll see what they're going through and I'll see the mental states that they get into as well.

And through that, it just expands your horizon of what the human body can do to a person, what experiences are out there.

So next time someone came to me and said, I'm going through this, like, divorce, I might have a bit of a better understanding.

So you sort of help.

You sort of learn stuff yourself in a practical sense.

Yeah.

But also in like a.

More of a philosophical sense, I suppose as well.

You learn like what, like I said before, what the body is capable of doing.

Because the human body and the human mind is.

It controls your life.

Like the story you tell yourself in your mind controls how you live your life.

Yeah.

End of.

There's a.

There's a story that Kyle Smith told me on one of our episodes about this twins, these twins, this twin study.

So there was two twins and their dad growing up was an alcoholic abuser, not a very nice man.

And over time they obviously moved out, they got older.

One of the twins became very successful, I think maybe started his own business, wife, kids, like the sort of picture perfect life, if you like.

The other guy became a drug addict and an abuser and an alcoholic, like very much like the dad.

And when they went to both of those people and ask them, why are you like this?

Like not why are you like this, but what do you think led you down this road to become the person you are today?

Yeah, both of them said the same thing.

They said because of my father.

So the only difference there is that they told themselves a different story about it.

So the one that became successful would have thought of said, I don't want to become that.

How do I?

I didn't enjoy being around that when I was younger.

How can I be different?

So they went on that brilliant path and the other one, I don't know, falls into that trap and starts picking up behaviors subconsciously, maybe without even knowing it.

And that's such a common thing.

But you either go one way or the other.

Yeah.

And the only difference is what you tell yourself with your mind.

So you can.

You can frame stuff to be so different.

It's like Sean Conway, when I spoke to him about.

He's obviously a multi world record holder for ultra endurance events like crazy things.

Swimming the length of the UK 105 Ironmans in 105 days.

And his reframe was to change the word failure to hiccup.

And it sounds when you Say out loud like that.

And someone listening might just go, what?

That's so what?

One little word.

But when you're in that moment and you say you failed or you've.

You.

You are a failure, there's.

That's like, final.

That's like, again, it comes to labeling yourself like, you've.

You're almost labeled as a failure.

It's a strong word.

It is.

It is.

And it's a.

It's a word that's difficult to come back from because it.

It stops it from being a lesson, which is essentially what failure is, is a lesson of how not to do it.

So you can go again and do it another time.

Yeah.

So he just changes it to hiccup.

So he just says, oh, I've just had a hiccup.

I'll go again.

So he'd like.

When he tried to do the 105 Iron Mans in 105 days the first time, I can't remember how far he got through, but I think it was less than 20 days.

And he, like, he went over his handlebars into a bush and, like, sprained his ankle and tried to carry on for the next two or three days, but he just couldn't keep the pace up to the level that he needed to.

So he obviously then had to stop and restart a year later or so.

But if he had then told himself that he's a failure and he'll never be able to do it, like, what was he thinking starting that challenge?

Like, of course he'd never do 105 in 105 days.

That's ridiculous.

Who would.

Who would do that?

But he went back a year later and smashed it, and now he can.

Like, the.

One of the reasons he did that was to prove to people that you can do stuff, because, yeah, I think before him, the guy.

The previous record was just over 100, but the one before that was like 50.

So the jump from 50 to 100 had basically made everyone go, oh, wow.

Like, we can never beat that.

That's unbeatable.

So part of his desire was to just show people that it was possible, and he did it.

And since then, I think it's been broken a couple of more times.

So I don't know what the number is now, but maybe like, 120 something.

130.

Insane.

Yeah.

I think we've always said to each other, though, haven't we, how it's fascinating how you.

How far you can push the body with the challenges we've done, it's just been something I Mean, I know I've always.

I've always said it and always had such a big interest in it, but how far you can push your body and physically you can be fit, but it is.

It's in here first.

And then the body follows.

Yeah.

And if you've got this switched on, then your body does follow.

Obviously, there's a physical element.

You have to be fit and you have to do the training, but it's the mental capacity as well to push yourself because you get to so many of those hurdles, multiple hiccups, but you have to have this turned on to get going and get moving when you're in those really dark hard times.

Yeah, well, we saw that with yourself on the 100k walk, didn't we?

So the.

Between 80 and 90k in to last the penultimate checkpoint stretch, we'd already strapped up both your knees because you had a knee injury prior to the.

Yeah.

And during that section, there was a moment where you just took a pause for a second and I was like, are you okay?

And you're like, just give me a second.

Are we gonna make it?

I was like, yeah, we've got loads of time.

Like, we're absolutely fine.

And then you just got up and you just walked borderline.

Ran, like, for an hour, an hour and a half until checkpoint 90.

Sorry, 90K.

Yeah.

And that was like.

That shows the mental side of it because you.

Before that, like, you were doing fine, but you were sort of not in the room in the same way.

And then you just switched on mentally and you were a changed person.

I just.

I remember just dropping to my knees thinking, are we gonna make it?

Are we actually gonna get to the end?

Because there was a cutoff time, wasn't there?

Yeah.

Was it 30?

I think it was 30 hours.

Yeah.

And we had to still get to the end at that point.

Yeah.

So that's.

That's a great example.

Yeah, I'm sure we've all had those moments.

Yeah.

And you've had those moments, too.

Yeah.

And that's an extreme example, obviously.

Like, not many people do 100k walks or runs or anything.

And those people that do will probably recognize that, those moments where they got a little burst.

But you see it like the marathon, London Marathon's on in a week or two.

And you'll see it there.

You'll see people running.

If you're out and about, or if you watch on tv, you'll see people really struggling.

And then someone will just go, come on, Dave.

Whatever their name is.

Like, you can do this.

And they just start running again.

Yeah.

Or they get a smile on their face and they start running and, well, they see their kid and they start running.

Like, even those emotional videos.

Yeah.

They're so super emotional.

But they changed that person's perspective in that moment and they managed to, like, start pushing a bit further again.

Yeah.

So there's so much to be said for, like, controlling and not even controlling, because you can't always control it, but understanding your mind, if you can understand why it's done, what it's done.

And I spoke to James Elliot on one of the most recent episodes about that.

I think he was talking in sense of how we perceive things, how we perceive moments in our life, and we often think, why did I react that way?

Or why did I think this way about that thing?

And instead of that, he says, why did my subconscious make me think that thing?

Because it's not you.

Yes, there's a reason that you're thinking the way you think.

So if you just go, why did I think it?

Well, it's because I was tired.

I was.

I was tired, so I wasn't thinking straight.

It's.

That's a.

That's a surface level answer for that question.

Yeah.

But if you think, why did I react with anger there?

And you go, well, because once, like, one of my parents did this thing that made me angry in response, and this reminded me of it.

And then it starts to unpack stuff.

So just going a little bit deeper with it, that's another thing you can do.

Do you think you have control of your mind?

I don't think anyone has control of that mind.

I think I have a decent understanding of why I act the way I act.

Yeah.

And if I don't know, I'm better now at trying to understand and learning and taking on other people's perspectives.

If I've acted a certain way and haven't noticed it, I probably sometimes still do act quite defensively.

And everyone does.

If you.

If you act in a way that you think is right.

And all humans do, like, very few humans act in a way they don't think is right.

Yeah.

And then someone tells you that's wrong or maybe you should have done it a different way.

You can feel personally attacked.

So again, it's a totally normal response to say, no, no, no, I did it, like, for this reason, and that's totally justified.

But then I think I'm getting better at stepping back and going, okay, I can understand how that came across from your perspective.

I will try and take that on and remember that next time when I'm in a similar situation.

Yeah.

So if we're talking about bettering ourselves, I've mentioned to you before that when I speak to my team, I always say that we are constantly learning.

Every day is a new learning day because the world keeps changing and we keep moving around it.

Where would you draw the line between pushing yourself to be better and being hard on yourself?

It's a common intersection.

Those two things that a lot of people who want to be better and do better come up against is the idea that when you're trying to be a better person, you're trying to learn new things.

And as you go through that process, if you have a hiccup along the way, it's very easy to jump into the self castigation of telling yourself that you should have done better because you've just learned about that.

You've just, why did I react so instinctively?

Like, you're, you're reading that stoic book and you were like loving it up.

Like you really enjoyed learning about it.

So why did you suddenly forget it all in that moment?

It's like, well, because, because I'm human and my brain's been wired over 31 years to react that way.

So it's not an overnight change.

Drawing the line, I suppose comes from when you, if you put yourself into a place of burnout or stress, anything that has a detrimental effect on you, then by definition the work that you're doing to better yourself is not working and it's having the opposite effect.

So I think a lot of people try and change too many things at once.

They might be like, and it always happens at New Year's, doesn't it?

You go, yeah, I'm gonna be a nicer person.

I'm gonna start speaking to strangers on the tube, I'm gonna get in the gym, I'm gonna sort my nutrition out, I'm going to ask for a promotion at work.

And you come up with all these random things and you can't stick to any of them because you've tried to do too many.

And even if you manage to hold on to them all for a while, all you're doing is spinning plates and eventually they'll come crashing down.

And that's going to cause you more stress and probably make you think negatively about yourself that you're a failure.

Because you don't mean, I'll just stick to it.

It's like, well, why don't you start with one thing?

If you stick to going to the gym and I Was like when I used to speak to my clients who are new in the gym, I'll say, just start with once or twice a week.

Like you.

If you go no times a week, you're not going to jump to like five a week.

And so many people get that wrong.

It's like, just start by upping it by one or two, two times a week, and stick to that for four to six weeks and then up it to three and then four and then to five eventually, like down the line.

But you can't expect to go because when you go for five straight away, if you hold onto it for two weeks and you then drop to four the week after, you look at yourself negatively.

Whereas if you go with two, it's something you can absolutely do and it's achievable.

It allows you.

If you say, I was going to go on Thursday, but then life happened, because life does happen, you can then go, well, I've only got to do one more session for the week and I've still got Friday, Saturday, Sunday, so I can push it back and make it work.

So it's all about, like tricking your mind as well into that.

So I think in terms of what the original question was about, self improvement and bettering yourself is like, take it slow and steady.

And as I read in Foxy's book the other day, slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

So by going slowly and steady, you're actually going to end up making faster progression over time.

Yeah.

I guess if anyone has a setback, something that they've been doing for a long time, something that's part of their lifestyle and then it's taken away from you, then you also have that problem as well.

If you're used to doing something every week and then suddenly there's a mountain in the way, then you have to have almost like a factory reset.

Yeah.

And reset your mind to thinking you will get back to that point again.

But not right now.

Yeah.

And I think we've all had that.

I've had that personally.

Yeah.

And it's.

It's difficult.

But you then use the phrase that you just said from Foxy's book, steady wins the race, and then you end up getting back there eventually.

Absolutely.

It's about again how you think about it.

Right.

Yeah.

So if you think about it, and a lot of people do this, whether they've had a significant injury or anything that stopped them, normally it's just age.

People who are, as they get older, they start to think, oh, 10 years ago, I could run a 10k in 40 minutes and now I can't.

It's like.

Well, yeah, like, unless you've been training to like a really like tip top level, you wouldn't.

And you have to have.

There's an element of realism and it's, it's different to like a sudden injury.

Because if you have a sudden injury and you can't, okay, say you're a runner and you like injure both your legs at the same time.

It's like, okay, you can't run, but what else can I do?

Like I can go to the gym and do like the ski erg or sit on the rower and just use my arms.

I can still do some endurance to keep myself going.

And same if you've had a upper limb injury, you can still use your legs in, in certain ways depending.

But yeah, it's just, it's a lot of.

It's in the story we tell ourselves and it's so difficult and I think it's not anything to be ashamed of because it's a human response because you one day you could do this thing and then the next day you couldn't.

It's like, well, how's that working?

That's not fair.

But like you said, you've got to remember that in.

Again, there's caveats to this.

But in a lot of cases you can get back to that.

You will get back to that.

If it's an injury that keeps you out for a year, you can still get back to that.

And you will get back to that as long as you put the effort in when the time comes to get back to it.

So yeah, yeah, a lot of it comes down back to the mental side, even, even in physical ailments.

It's, it's the story you tell yourself.

It is, it's fascinating actually.

Yeah, you see it a lot with people who are terminally ill as well.

You get a lot of people who lose hope and deteriorate quicker and then people who are like adamant that they're fighting it and stay around for years, years longer than they were like definitely suggested to.

And one of the ones that I remember from Viktor Frankl's book, Man Search for Meaning, he was in three camps during the Holocaust and in his time there, I think he was at Auschwitz as well.

And he was there over.

He was there till the Allies sort of came and liberated them.

And a lot of the people started believing it.

They were, like, getting excited for it.

And the word hope comes up because they're hopeful for it.

And what happens is, obviously, as we know now, Christmas comes and goes, New Year comes and goes, and the allies aren't there because they didn't get there till much later in that year.

And the people that had that hope and then realized that it wasn't coming true, they lost hope and almost resigned themselves to die.

And they did start to.

To die because they'd given up, essentially, because they'd pinned all of their expectation on believing this thing was going to happen, and then it didn't.

And I think to bring it back to what we were talking to before, it's like you got to have a realistic expectation.

If you've.

If you've injured your leg and you think you're going to be running a PB in three months from now, it's like, no, you've got to reset that now because that's.

If you.

If you.

If you hope that and then it doesn't happen, you're going to fall off a cliff.

Yeah.

So it's about sort of calibrating our thoughts as well.

You've spoken a lot about masculinity, conversations with men, about emotions and values and confidence.

How do you feel like this has challenged your masculinity?

Has it changed at all?

It's challenged my masculinity a little bit, yeah.

I mean, I wouldn't say I was ever sort of what we look at as negative masculinity and sort of alpha, over the top.

And just on that point, I think a lot of those people are, like, unwell themselves.

I think they're covering for something.

There's the large egos, the bravado and the loudness.

I find a lot of people who are very loud in a room are often the ones trying to cover up, like, pain, potentially.

Yeah, It's.

It massively improved my understanding.

A lot of the stats.

I had no idea.

And when I started talking to people like George from the Tin Men's, Dr. Susie Bennett, who I mentioned earlier, Martin Seeger, to name a few, the stats of suicide in men being 75, of suicides or there or thereabouts are men.

Yeah.

And that's a massive, like, disproportion that we sort of.

Some people know that number and some people don't, and there's so many reasons behind it.

And again, like, through my work with the Samaritans, through the conversations I have had in this podcast and through working in the fire brigade as well.

I've learned so much about those reasons and how they affect people and how it's like it's okay.

And it's actually.

It's a normal feeling in the scenario that people are in.

They're in an abnormal situation a lot of the time that they don't know how to deal with.

And the important thing is to help that person deal with it.

And a lot of the way that we need to do that is by talking openly, whether that's to another person, whether that's to a journal.

A lot of people journal.

You can do a written journal.

You could do a voice journal at the end of the day.

And some people find that really useful to get stuff out of their head and onto paper or onto something else.

And I think that is the important part is getting out of your head.

So many people keep stuff in their mind and never talk about it to anyone, not even to a piece of paper.

That is literally like the least judgmental thing that could look back at you because it's.

It's not a person.

So if you can write stuff down just to make sense of it, I think it helps massively.

I think the conversation around masculinity is.

Is not ideal in the media side of things as well.

I agree.

I feel like that there's this idea of a man to be strong and almost not emotional in any sense, which I find really sad because I think it's human nature.

If you don't have those emotions, then you are just a. Technically just like a robot.

Yeah.

So I do feel like in the media, which I think I'm going to cover, it is sad.

I think it is sad for men.

Yeah.

Well, one of the phrases that is used so often is toxic masculinity.

I think it's so wrong because masculinity is not a talk.

It's not a toxic thing.

It's not a bad thing.

Like we have the masculine and the feminine.

Yeah.

And we have done for however many thousands of years.

It's what we are.

It's what we're born with.

So to call it entirely toxic is.

And I know that sort of narrowing down on certain behaviors, but to even put that word next to masculinity, it's like you wouldn't say toxic feminine.

So you would say this person has this trait that is toxic.

Yeah.

And I think we need to sort of use that more with men.

I think it's unfair to say toxic masculinity.

I think Actually, there's.

There's toxic people from all genders and from all walks of life and all backgrounds.

It's not just one thing.

And.

And on the aspect of the emotions side of things, like, again, historically, men are strong, they don't have emotions, they.

They keep a stiff upper lip.

All of this, these phrases that we know.

And now we've started to see more people say, men need to talk, men should talk.

And it's all good saying that.

I don't think we've done enough action on that.

And to actually give men the space to talk openly and not being judged, obviously, the Samaritans is a place where that can happen, but if you want to do it in a more of a community feel, it's quite difficult to go to a place where you can openly say stuff and not feel judged.

So I think men's spaces are important, as are any individual spaces, like women's space.

I know there's that new gym in Wandsworth has opened up.

These are really important things because there is power in being around other people who are going through the same things as you.

Definitely.

And I don't think that's wrong, but it seems wrong sometimes when people say, oh, like, there's men's sheds where men can go, and they're like, in sheds, basically, like working on stuff, doing projects together.

In amongst that comes the important conversations.

Like Martin Seeger, when we spoke, he's a clinician and he did a lot of work with Samaritans and helped them be better at sort of responding to men's issues.

And he was saying, with men, you find that a lot of the time when they're talking, they'll have a very banal conversation.

So it be about football or whatever it is.

It's just a standard conversation.

It doesn't really seem very deep.

And then there'll be a little moment where it just opens up and there's a little bit of emotion explored and then it might go back to football.

It's like, that's important.

Yeah.

So allowing men to have that space and being like, men don't want to talk about the emotions, they just want to talk about football.

It's like, well, let them talk about that and then see what happens when they start discussing it.

But, yeah, I think, and I think on the topic of emotions once more, is.

Stoicism has been massively miss sold online.

That idea of a stoic being someone with no emotions.

It's like, yeah, I'll never cry, I'm a stoic.

I won't like, be upset because I'm stoic.

I don't think about things like, that's totally wrong.

Like, stoicism is, is a.

It's very difficult to put it into, like, a description.

Yeah, but to try and describe stoicism, you would say the ability to acknowledge what you're feeling and to then assess whether that is a useful emotion or not and choose how you want to react in that moment and then see what happens.

Because if you react instinctively, you've not really thought it through.

If you have that opportunity to go, right, I feel angry, but why do I feel angry?

And anger's a really useful emotion.

Now I'm going off on topics, but I'm going to go there because it's important.

Please do.

Anger is a really useful emotion that people often talk negatively of.

People say anger's a, like, a bad emotion.

Anger tells you that something's wrong or that you don't agree with something that's happened.

So the action that comes out of it can be wrong.

If you decide to punch someone, I suppose in certain circumstances you may need to, but if you overreact and hit someone or, like, make it physical, that's not a useful outcome.

But the feeling of anger itself is useful because it tells you that something's not right.

So, yeah, if someone said something that I don't agree with, I could turn around and shout them down and call them names and even be physical with them.

Or I could be like, right, why didn't I like that?

Why did that make me feel angry?

Well, it's because of this.

And then I can maybe have a conversation with them.

Maybe I can't.

This isn't some sort of, like, oh, peace be for all.

Like, sometimes it is, sometimes it's not.

And you might be able to have a conversation, but at the very least you'll be able to go, okay, I felt angry because they said that thing.

But I also know they're going through a lot and they probably heard that somewhere.

They don't really agree with it.

I've tried to speak to them.

They didn't want to hear it.

I'm going to walk away from the situation and not worry about it anymore.

Yeah, and it's like to go to the topic of road rage.

If you react on the road to road rage, you're going to remember that it's going to impact your next 30 seconds and a minute of driving.

Because all you're thinking about is that idiot who cut in front of you and you honked your horn.

You Shout out the window.

If you ignore it, they'll be out your mind in five seconds.

If you know that was bad driving and then you just carry on and it's out your mind.

Yeah, yeah.

It's emotional regulation.

Emotional regulations in everyone.

Children.

Yeah.

Regulating their emotions.

We are all just big children.

We are.

With big feelings.

Yeah.

All the time children, they can't regulate their emotions as well as us because they don't understand their emotions.

But now, as we get older, we have the joy of understanding how to regulate our emotions.

And sometimes it can be still quite difficult.

And I think as well, if we feel a certain emotion, I think a lot of people actually link it back to something that's happened in their past life as well.

Yeah.

And that's the only way.

And the only way they know how to deal with it in that moment.

Because they're remembering about something that's happened before in their life.

Yeah.

Which is also a huge impact on people because that means they're never going to be able to understand their emotions fully.

Yeah.

And, yeah.

I mean, not everyone can assess their emotions.

No.

So some people are just big children and they haven't done the work to really understand why they feel that way.

Yeah.

I want to go back to your podcast, though, and the real cost of building something like this.

Not actual money, but the cost of the time you spend on it.

Yeah.

So tell me about the process and building the lonely chapter.

Okay.

So the first thing to note is my shift pattern of my firefighting job is four days on, four days off, two day shifts, two night shifts.

So I am lucky to have the four days off and the day times of the night shifts to get this work done because it's a lot of work.

It's a loss of work.

It is.

And.

And anyone who does it on a 9 to 5 job, that just blows my mind.

Like, fair play to them.

Especially if they're doing it weekly.

Even if they're doing it like fortnightly.

It's.

It's loads of work.

When I first started, obviously I didn't know as much as I do now.

And I'm still learning loads.

The.

The things that people probably don't see is from start to finish, the process,.

People don't see.

But I see.

You see, you see a lot of it.

Yeah.

So I've got to come up with guests and that's like people I wanna.

I've got to find people that I want to speak to.

I'm interested to speak to and learn from.

Sometimes people do recommend me People and I find that brilliant and really useful.

So if anyone listening does know anyone who would sort of fit this style of podcast, then feel free to send over their details.

I'm always open to suggestions.

So, yeah, finding the guest, I then got to reach out to that guest and convince them to come on.

And most people don't respond.

Anyone like, relatively high profile, Most of them don't respond, but you've got to ask to have an opportunity to get a yes.

And obviously a few times they have responded.

Like, there's people who I wouldn't have expected to say yes, who have done.

And I'm super grateful for them for giving me the opportunity to speak to them.

And hopefully in the actual episode they feel like they're glad they said yes and gave it a chance.

Once they've said they're going to come on, I then got to obviously book a date with them, go to and fro, work out when that's going to be recorded.

I've got to prep the episodes.

There's a lot of research into that guest, everything I can find.

I try and pull stuff, try and make the questions unique and I try not to make them just a story, like a storyline of their life.

I think when I first started the podcast, I probably did that and I sort of knew this whole story.

So I would say, tell me about you growing up.

And this is.

So many interview podcasts start this way, right?

They go, so, Molly, tell me about your childhood.

What was it like growing up?

And then the guest just has to monologue about their childhood.

Yeah, I'm massive on trying to make that first question really quite current, but also interesting.

And it's like straight in with a relatively decent question that's not just what was it like growing up?

Yeah.

And I think I've adapted that over time.

So, yeah, coming up with the questions, that's a whole nother thing, obviously.

Then do the recording, which sometimes includes travel.

I've traveled out, like all over the UK to do podcasts, which is cool, but again, that's time and money for myself.

I've got to then edit the episode up.

So I edit it all myself, watch it back through.

It's my opportunity to listen back as well and re listen to the conversation because there's always little bits that I miss when I'm in the conversation because if the guest says one thing that I find interesting, my mind might go, ooh, I wanna pick up on that in a second.

And whilst my brain's thought that they've said something else really Interesting.

And then when I listen back to it I'm like, I almost don't remember that.

That's amazing.

Like to like re have that opportunity again, edit it, uploading it, coming up with the title descriptions, the chapters and then all the social media stuff after that.

You've then got to promote that episode.

So it's not enough to just upload it and be left with it.

Yeah.

In this day and age this is social media baby.

So you've got to make clips, you got to make reels, you've got to make carousels, which I don't really do that many of every now and then.

Sometimes I need to get better, do stories, link it and it's, it's a lot, especially for me, the social media side of it.

Because before the podcast I was off social media and I had been for a number of years.

Yes, let's talk about that.

Actually I loved it.

It was so good.

The reason I did it was I was in my bodybuilding era.

Hard to imagine, I know looking at me.

I've never been in that area really.

I was training bodybuilding style.

I never got massive.

But I would follow a lot of fitness influencers and a lot of bodybuilders on Instagram and it's all like well intentioned because people follow those people for inspiration and to learn from and because you want to look like them essentially that is ultimately the truth.

If you could have their body in that moment, that's what you would do.

So you're following these people but all they're doing is showing the highlights of their life.

They're showing you their physique in the best lighting possible.

It may be even edited, probably also enhanced on like steroids a lot of the time, especially like the male, male influences and a lot of them just aren't achievable.

A lot of them just have really good genetics as well.

There's that element of it.

Some people just like have brilliant genetics when it comes to building muscle and they can do it very quickly.

And yeah, all of their insertions and their muscles are like really well placed to give them a, like a very eye pleasing physique I suppose.

And you've got to understand that not everyone gets that.

So when you compare yourself it's not healthy.

And I found myself comparing myself, I'd be going to the gym and the difficulty I had the, the one of the biggest changes for me was leaving social media because I then the only person I could compare myself to was myself or my immediate friends.

But even then I Wouldn't I'd just be like, well, last week I did this weight, last month I was doing that weight and a year ago I was doing this weight.

So I am improving.

And I.

The other thing was also, again, the mental change from training for the way I looked to training for like a specific goal or achievement or.

Yeah.

And an event.

If I'm training to be a better football player or whatever the sport is, or maybe I want to run a certain speed but also have a bit of size and maybe I'd measure that by the way that I'm deadlifting.

By having those numbers, you can actually look at an objective number and something that you can actually measure.

When I was training just for the way I looked, my perception of how I looked day to day varied so much.

One day I'd have an amazing pump, have a really good session and think, you are almost as big as Arnold.

And then the next day you would just be like, I'm so skinny, I'm actually skinnier than when I started.

And it's like the two extremes of it and it's like your mind can just play these tricks on you.

So I don't think training for the way you look is useful at all.

And I've changed that a lot.

And I've tried to focus on looking at numbers, looking at actual measurable results and how it's affecting my sports and just general life.

And now, obviously, being a firefighter, like, being fit is a big part of it.

So that's an important part.

And I do it so that I can be as fit as I can be for the people that we serve, the members of the public, but also for my colleagues and the crews that I work with.

And if something does go wrong, I've got to be fit enough to help them get out of trouble.

So, yeah, changing your.

Again, changing your mental framing of something physical, massive.

I think a lot of people must go through that, especially in the gym setting.

And when you were PT ing, you must have gone through that as well with women.

I think we're going off on a tangent now.

Do it.

But I think when women say, when you.

When you ask the goals, what are your goals?

And they say, I, I want to build muscle, but I don't want to look like a man.

It's like, what?

Yeah, you know, building muscle doesn't mean you're going to look like a man.

Yeah.

And then I don't think then women actually understand what it is then to build muscle.

They don't quite get it because they know that they need muscle, but there's so much more to it than that.

So, yeah, having this sort of warped perception on goals.

As you were saying, there was days where you got a pump and then you thought, oh, my gosh, that's it.

And then your body changed again.

It's just that natural.

The natural changes.

Yeah.

I think it's harder for women a lot of the time.

I think men, obviously, there's a lot of, like, guys on steroids with, like, massive, like, muscles and physiques that guys, like, aspire to.

But women, like, historically have had loads of, like, the ad campaigns and everyone's super skinny and super fit, and Instagram and any social media has just rewarded that, like finding good lighting, finding the right edit, finding the right filter, finding the leggings that go up your bum crack and pull your bum up and just like, it's.

So much of it is fake for.

And none of it's for you.

The only reason you're doing that is so you can get a better response from other people because you know that when you take off those leggings, that's not really what your bum looks like.

Talking about women more specifically, maybe men wear some leggings as well.

But, like, those.

Those sort of things, for me, at the minute, that seems to be a big thing in gyms and gym culture.

But you know.

You know your truth when you go back.

So really, you're gonna feel worse about yourself when you do take those things off and when you're not stood in good lighting.

Yeah.

And then if you.

If you become someone who is relatively famous on an influencer, Gym influencer, and people then meet you and you're not in perfect lighting and you're.

You've not got a pump on because you had that time for that photo.

It's like a lot of time.

People don't look as impressive when you meet them in person.

Yeah.

Because they've.

They've not got that whole setup.

They've probably taken hundreds of photos to get that one photo that you see online.

Yeah.

And we forget that.

We forget that social media is just the highlights of people's lives.

Going away from, like, the gym side of things.

People post the best parts of their life.

You don't see anything beyond that.

That person could be really struggling inside.

But because they posted a picture of them having a coffee, looking out on a sunny field with their little dog, you think, wow, they're living their life.

I wish I could do that on a Wednesday morning, but I'm at work.

It's like, well, actually they're super lonely.

They've got no one to share it with.

You've got a partner and kids and they want what you want.

But we never see behind the veil.

We just see what they show us.

Yeah.

I think social media is so powerful.

I mean, we are doing this podcast now and it will go on social media and it's so powerful.

I think for me personally, it's sad now because even between from like the next generation to my age, social media has changed so much and it is crippling children.

It's so great for them because there's things that families can learn on there and new parents.

But when we start getting to the point of, you know, eight year olds now having phones, iPhones and they're on social media, all the things they're seeing on social media, how it's damaging them, their mental capacity, their confidence, all of it, because they're watching things online that almost dictating to them how they should be and how they should feel.

So there's this crossover now with the next generation.

Yeah, it's really tough.

It's really tough for young people now.

And I think you've seen the book that's been sat on the side for the last month that I'm, I'm almost getting ready to read is a book called Girls by Freya India.

But she's released that book recently.

But she, she has a substack.

So anyone listening who wants to learn a little bit more about the impact of social media?

She's a Gen Z writer who talks about how social media has impacted more specifically girls, but also just gen generally.

That whole new group of kids who have grown up on it.

Yeah.

Because we sort of missed social media and truly growing up, it would have come around in like the late teens probably like properly like on your phone all the time.

But these kids now, it's like they're seeing it from the moment they can hold a phone.

Yeah.

So, yeah, it's super.

And you think about how, how hooked and how affected adults can get over social media, like how addicted we are to pulling our phone out, getting Instagram on and swiping and just going into an hour's scroll.

Yeah.

If that can do that to an adult mind that knows when you come off it, you feel bad and you go, wow, I've just wasted an hour.

Yeah.

Your adult mind that can comprehend that and can understand like the ramifications of it.

And we're letting kids do that who cannot understand it.

All they know is that it's a bit of fun for a while, but we know like much more now and over time I think it's going to be, it's going to be in looked at a lot more.

And someone who Freya writes with as well is Jonathan Haidt, who's done a lot of podcasts and he's got a substack as well called After Babel or After Babble.

I don't know how it's pronounced.

But again, like if anyone's interested in learning more about social media and the impact on especially younger people, whether you're a young person yourself, whether you're a parent or parent, to be like, read some of these things and it's super scary, but eye opening and important.

Taking it back to creating the, the content and the podcast.

You said at the start that you made this podcast because you wanted to create something meaningful, something that people can relate to.

Have there any, have there been parts of creating the content and the podcast that's been quite lonely in the process, quite hard to grasp.

There's definitely been times where I've probably been quite stressed by it, to be honest.

And it's probably my own doing like one of the hardest things for me.

And it's, it's not actually that hard, but it's just staying on top of the, the guest finding and booking and yeah, staying a few weeks ahead.

So if I'm a few weeks ahead and I have a podcast booked and someone cancels, it's fine because I can.

I've still got a backlog to put out.

There's been a long time where I was like going week to week and it's quite hectic and it puts you in a stressful position because if that person cancels, you then don't have an episode to put out.

And if you told everyone you're doing weekly you want to stay true to that as much as possible.

Yeah, and there's been a couple of times where I've missed weeks and I've spoken on a recent episode about that and how I like again fell into that trap of talking negativity to myself rather than just being kind and being like we're all humans.

Like this is a mistake you can learn from and move forward with.

You've still made this is episode 100.

Like that's crazy.

So I've still done that many episodes.

So I've probably created my own stress in that regard.

And sometimes that's quite difficult because the people that I'm around day to day obviously don't understand how A podcast really works beyond the me talking to someone, editing it, putting out, and all the extra stuff that maybe people don't grasp.

And it's also something I've chosen to do.

Like, ultimately, if I wanted the stress to stop, I could just stop doing it, but then I'd be stressed that I stopped and gave up when I was enjoying something.

So it's like finding the balance of it.

And for, like, the balance is obviously just staying on top of, like, the guest bookings.

Because like I said earlier, I laid out roughly the order of things what I do for a podcast episode, and that's just one episode.

And it all starts with finding a guest and booking a guest.

So if I can do that bit, well, technically everything else should just follow.

But to me, that's one of the harder bits to stay on top of because I love having the conversations and I love editing the conversations because I get to listen back to it and I get to reflect on it and think about which parts of it I want to, like, share on social media.

But, yeah, those that, I suppose the loneliest times are just those moments when I am stressed, but I haven't really said it to anyone, and if I have, they probably just think you sort of done that to yourself.

It's not.

It's not really a stress, is it?

So then I'm just like, yeah, in my own head.

But, yeah, on the whole, it's been great.

It's been great.

That's the only sort of thing I can think of that's not been.

And that's, again, my own fault for doing that.

Yeah, well, we're all very proud of you with how far you've come with it.

Anyway, thank you.

Okay, so we're going to finish off with some questions.

Okay.

The first one is, when do you think your next Lonely Chapter will be?

And do you think anyone else will go on that journey with you at the same time?

Well, I suppose by definition, no one will go on that particular journey.

I assume there'll be people at my side like yourself and like my closest friends and family.

But I suppose the idea of the Lonely Chapter is that you are going on this thing yourself.

And the support of people around you is super important during that, but they also will never fully understand it because we're all so unique.

We have a completely different lived experience.

Up until this point in life, you take anyone, and as similar as their lives have been, there'll be very small things that have changed and been different, and that changes our perception of the world.

So, yeah, I think.

What would my next lonely chapter be?

I don't know.

It's very difficult, say, potentially, I'd say it might be a moment at this podcast where if I was lucky enough to.

The need to step it up to another level.

I mean, I'm always trying to step it up to another level somewhat, but if it went, if it went larger where I had to make more significant changes and time changes, that could be one.

Do you mean with the development of the podcast?

Yeah, just like putting more time and effort into certain aspects of it.

Again, like I've spoken about my, the stuff that I do, but there's, there's possibility at points where you can delegate certain aspects of those to put more effort into certain other spaces.

And that would require me learning a lot more skills if I really wanted to get into high level editing and like the learn even like learn about social media to a level where like a lot of people do know more about it.

I'm still just not that interested in.

This is such a difficult thing because it's like, it's so useful and it has positives and negatives.

I'm still fighting that thing in my mind that it's like a negative.

Yeah.

But yeah, if I had to put more time into certain things, I think I could probably then that might put me into another lonely chapter.

But I think you never really know when you're going to be in one.

Like life changes a lot.

Like you, you can, you could, like you said, you could have a, you can have a injury that puts you back.

That could be a learning chapter.

You could have a divorce, you could have a grief, you could lose someone that puts you into it.

There's a lot of things that might happen, but who knows?

Take it a day at a time.

It's like, it's like we're living in one big lonely chapter.

Yeah, essentially.

Yeah.

With many chapters of loneliness in between.

Yeah, hopefully, like, yeah, everyone's life isn't too lonely generally.

And it's, it's funny as well because in.

I spoke on the only other podcast I've say, the only other one I've now guested on my own podcast today, but the only other one I've actually guessed it on properly is Rolling Forward with Zach.

And we were talking about the idea of the Lane chapter.

And it's like you can be around so many people and supportive people and have that with you, but like I said at the start, you're the only one with the experience, the direct experience, whilst you can.

It's like with mental health, I'm taking a massive tangent, but when someone's on a mental health journey, the only person that can truly get themselves out of it is that person.

I can be as supportive as possible next to that person and always be there for that person when they need to call me, message me.

But ultimately it has to be the person doing it themselves.

No one else can pull that person out.

They can support them.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And that makes it easier, but it, it has to be them.

And I think that's the same for a lonely chapter.

It's like it is your journey and there's certain things that you'll feel that the people around you might not understand fully.

Yeah.

Just thinking about, like when people go on that, like they go on that lonely chapter and there's people around supporting that person, it's really up to that person to let them in and kind of delve into their feelings and why they're going through that chapter in their life.

And if people don't understand, they may just not get it.

But then there's also a concept of, did I explain that enough?

I think I've been, I think throughout my life, I've always had this tendency to over explain because of just how I am.

And I think when people go through that lonely chapter in their life, whoever they let into that inner circle, they either have that option to really go into and explain how they're feeling, or they don't.

But then they can't turn around to people and say, you don't understand how I feel, or do you appreciate this level of stress I'm going through?

It's tough.

It is.

My next question is, and the final question, what has a hundred conversations taught you?

And I'm not saying you have to remember every conversation.

You can obviously clearly pick out key elements from other podcasts that you've done.

But how has it helped you talking to 100 people?

Yeah, it has massively changed me.

And I, like, I could talk about the obvious practical skills of like, communication and like, meet meeting new people and being more comfortable.

As you'll remember, when you first met me, I wasn't anywhere near as good socially as I am now.

And I still don't reckon I'm that good.

But sometimes.

Oh, I think seven.

Yeah.

Seven years ago, looking at you now, if I met you seven years ago.

Yeah.

You wouldn't have been.

You wouldn't have thought about doing a podcast?

No.

No.

You wouldn't have thought about that at all?

No.

So I've completely changed.

Like the way I am, and I've changed in the two years of doing the podcast.

Like, you can't speak to that many interesting individuals with, like, wealth of knowledge that you wouldn't, like, have insight to otherwise and not.

And there's loads of stuff, but, like, the.

The common ones that sort of come up.

And I did it.

I did actually do an episode recently on the, like, common patterns.

And, like, one of them is about the fact that a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff that we look at negatively, stuff you go through in life where you learn your lessons and, like, through the failure, through the hiccups, like, you have to try things to then not succeed and then to learn and go again.

There's nothing wrong with starting again.

There's nothing wrong with, like, taking a different path.

Like, if you've committed time people.

There's the sunk cost fallacy, where if you put a certain amount of time into something, the more time you put in, the harder it is to step away.

Whether that's a relationship, a job, whatever it is, the more you've done, the harder it is to step away.

And I get it, and I've felt that before.

But you also have to then look at the alternative of staying that forever.

And if you go sideways and look at the other options, then there may be brilliant stuff for you.

But in the future, being honest with yourself, being resilient, like, and not just resilience as in, like, David Goggins, hurt yourself, like, endure pain, like, that's resilience in a way.

But, like, truly resilient people.

I think the most resilient people are the ones who wouldn't call themselves resilient, are the ones who have been through loads of, like, really bad stuff and experienced, like, really, like, awful things, but still just getting on with life.

And they've, like, they've processed it, they've moved on, and they just got on with it.

And a lot of people probably wouldn't even acknowledge that that's them being resilient, but it's like, that's literally the definition of it.

You've come through something really hard and learned more and been better on the other side of it.

So, yeah, being resilient.

There's so many things I've learned.

I think it's just.

I think it's just fantastic that you've.

You've spoken to.

I mean, you speak to loads of people, but in relation to the podcast, you've spoken to a hundred people.

I remember the very first one you done, all of our friends, and then.

You branched out in this actual room.

In this actual room, yeah.

We're still in the same room.

Yeah.

And then you've branched out to all these people, these fantastic people.

So hats off to you because it is truly wonderful what you've done.

Thank you.

Yeah, I've really enjoyed it and I think I'll keep doing it as long as I enjoy it and keep trying to progress it.

I try and have conversations about things I'm interested in because I think if I'm interested in it, there must be someone else that's interested in it.

Yeah, I try and let the guest lead the conversation.

Like, one of the biggest compliments I do get is the fact that I let the guest speak.

I think you get a lot of podcasts where people say something as the guest and the host will jump in and be like, oh, yeah, I did this thing where this.

And it's like bringing it back to them.

It's like, well, I've invited this person on my show.

Like, I want to learn from them.

I've invited you on the show too.

Yeah, you've done excellent as first time host.

This is brilliant.

Honestly, you just let me ramble on.

I want the listeners to know what Sam is.

Yeah, this is who I am.

But hopefully they've got an understanding of that today.

I think they probably have somewhat.

Yeah.

But yeah, I try not to, like, overthink stuff too much.

Like, that's another lesson that I've learned.

Just going back to the previous point and like, don't be scared to try stuff.

That's.

That's a massive thing that I've learned.

Like fear, the fear of failure will, like, is worse than not trying.

Yeah, the fear of failure will just stop you in your tracks.

And if you don't do anything, you are guaranteed to stay where you are.

And if you don't like that, then that's not a good outcome.

So in order to move in life, you have to try stuff.

Because even if you try stuff and you don't like it or you get it wrong, you get to go again and you get to change your direction and you learn that is something that I don't like.

So I might go and try and work in a corporate job in banking and be like, that's not for me.

That 9 to 5 life isn't for me.

Okay, well, I've whittled down quite a lot of stuff there.

I can now look somewhere else and yeah, like, assess why it's not good for you.

What are the aspects and then look at stuff that fits that.

And so many people just don't start.

Like, there'll be people out listening to this who have wanted to start their own podcast or have wanted to write a book or ask out the person they've had a crush on for the last 10 years or whatever, whatever the thing is.

And they don't do it because they're scared of the rejection.

They're scared of people not listening to their podcast or not reading the book or not saying yes to the date.

So what's the worst case scenario if you just try it?

And I spent six months before, like I said earlier, prepping this podcast, coming up with names, coming up with the artwork, worrying about how I was going to record it, worrying about where I was going to record it, worrying about who I would get on.

How am I going to find guests weekly.

I still don't know.

But I'm doing it because I just started, and I just never stopped.

So you have to just start.

And then once you're on that roller coaster, as Lily Kirby put it in our last episode, she was like, I've just got on this roller coaster and I haven't got off.

I think it's a lovely way to put it.

It's like.

But the only way to do it is to get on the roller coaster in the first place.

Yeah.

And there's fear.

There's fear because people are scared of roller coasters, People are scared of failing, but if you do it, you don't know where it's going to lead.

Sam, thank you so much for today, and thank you for honoring me with being the host today.

Thank you so much, honestly, for not only helping me today with this idea that we've had for quite a while.

Yeah.

And I think it's really nice to do it as episode 100, but for your support throughout as well, because it's.

It's helped me get to where I am.

So thank you.

And I'm gonna do the outro to the listener, because I just want to say thank you to you as well.

This is episode 100, which sounds absolutely crazy to say out loud.

And I still remember, like I said a moment ago, being in this room recording episodes two, it would have been because episode one was just me.

But to be here and saying episode 100 is something I didn't know if I was going to get to, but also something that I always aspire to get to.

Anyway, enough rambling from me.

Again, thank you for listening and thank you if you're new here.

Thank you.

If this is your first time hearing my voice.

Thank you.

If you're an avid follower and you listen every week, I really appreciate all of you.

All I would ask as a thank you from me or as a gift to me, maybe for a hundred episodes, would be that you follow the show wherever you're listening.

It really helps the show grow and get shown to more people.

And if you haven't already, leave a rating as well.

If you've followed the show and you're sick of me asking you to follow the show, maybe leave a rating because a lot of you haven't done that.

So I will leave you with that.

But lastly, from me, thank you for listening, stay curious and I will see you in the next one.