What does imposter syndrome sound like for artists? Well, if you have ever said these things to yourself, you’ve probably experienced it.

• “I don’t have any real talent.”
• “If people ever saw my process, they’d realize that I’m a fraud.”
• “I can’t believe these artists are talking to me, they would totally ignore me if they knew what a hack I am.”

Imposter Syndrome, and the accompanying feelings, can be difficult to navigate. It is common and a normal experience for many artists, but it doesn’t have to control you or become a daily part of your reality.

Hi, this is Matt Stagliano and thanks for being

part of the artists Forge. We're a community of creatives who

help each other think like an artist. By discussing creativity

as a process instead of a skill or a talent. We believe everyone

has what it takes to create something amazing. We just need

some encouragement and inspiration along the way. What

you're about to hear is a live recording of one of our daily

discussions on the clubhouse app. If you like what you hear,

I encourage you to join our private Facebook group, or visit

us on the web at the artist forged calm. Now on to the show.

Good morning, and welcome to Morning walk and

photo talk with the artists Forge. We are continuing our

conversation around Ooh, sorry for the cars y'all around

conflict. And there goes the bus. Only this time, it's

internal. Right? So yesterday, we talked about what we do when

our environment falls out of whack. When we don't have the

kind of habits built that will help us get back into flow if we

get interrupted some of the thought patterns and processes

that are connected to that. And some things that we can maybe

try to make it not happening in the future. And today, we're

going to be continuing with the list of examples that our

friends talked about yesterday, different things we all face. So

today is Imposter Syndrome Day. Something that many many artists

deal with. And very fair to mention, as David has mentioned

in the past, unfortunately, he hasn't been able to be with us

lately. But we do need to be careful and making sure that

we're not self diagnosing. So as we talk about these different

conflicts, these different difficulties that we face as

artists, our internal struggles, there's so many cars that we

don't, that we don't diagnose ourselves or, you know, give

ourselves actual issues that we don't have, there's certainly a

percentage of difficulty in the area of imposter syndrome that

everybody's going to have sometimes right, a normal level

of anxiety about things. And that will affect us more or

less, depending on how we feel about the issue that we're

dealing with. Maybe we really get it heavily when it comes to

networking and dealing with other people. Maybe it's not

really there when it comes to art or putting ourselves out

there for awards. But whatever it is, we just want to be

careful that we're not necessarily diagnosing

ourselves. But that we recognize that these feelings are going to

show up, and they're going to be different for each of us. Some

people will have true imposter syndrome where no matter what

they do, or how qualified they are, they will never feel like

they have earned it like they can stand there confidently and

say, I am this. And everybody eventually is going to find out

that they're a liar. And it was all luck, and all those other

things. So before we get into the conversation, just recognize

that these feelings are going to fall all over the scale, that

they're going to fall all over the scale not only for us as

individuals as part of a group, but in different aspects of our

careers, from the art to the business, selling all of those

things. So I want to begin just by making sure for folks who

have never heard of imposter syndrome. This is a room full of

artists. So I doubt I doubt that nobody's heard of it. But just

in case. Imposter syndrome is basically the feeling that no

matter how much we succeed, no matter how many skills we have,

no matter how much of a knowledge base we've built, we

never believe that those things are actually integrated skills

that we deserve to have. And that eventually, at some point,

everybody will discover that it was all luck that it was somehow

an accident that we don't deserve to have the title or be

called the name or earn the money or have the awards or

whatever it is that we've got. they'll discover that we're

imposters and this can be really deleterious to some people's

ability to move forward with their art in their business. It

can be absolutely damning and hold them back. Or it can just

be something that we struggle with and have to push past on a

daily, weekly, monthly basis. And so we want to be able to

look at this today figure out how much it affects us and what

we can do To stop imposter syndrome, from stealing the joy

from our art, from us being able to move forward with ideas or

plans, to put ourselves out there for networking, just all

the things. So make sure Kat is a moderator today, too. And then

I just want to find out who deals with imposter syndrome.

Hey, artists, probably everybody a little bit, but who deals with

it? We'll start with a panel. Do either of you guys deal with

imposter syndrome? And then what do you do about it?

I don't know if this conversation could come at

a better time. I missed yesterday's I had missed

yesterday's clubhouse because I had a shoot, I had a real estate

agency coming in to my studio to do headshots and some group

shots. This is a group that I've shot before in the past over the

years. And we're just refreshing them for 2021 came in yesterday,

from the moment go to the time we finished, I felt like I was a

complete fraud. I couldn't connect to anybody. The shots

weren't going well, the people didn't want to be there. They

were incredibly self critical. We're not listening to anything

that I was saying over and over and over. And this went on for a

few hours. At the end of the shoot. Will I be able to salvage

some shots? Yes, absolutely. Will I ever recover? I don't

know if I'll ever recover. I came home yesterday full of self

doubt, I'm not good at what I do. I can't connect to people

like I think I can, they didn't have a good time, they're never

going to love these photos, they're going to talk I'm never

going to get another job. Yada, yada, yada. Now, that was the

initial that was the initial feeling right. And it kind of

spun me off axis for several hours. And then calmed down a

little bit talk to a couple of friends was able to kind of

quiet my mind a little bit. And I know that one bad day doesn't

reflect on a career of good work. But man oh man, if it

doesn't hit you right in the gut when it's happening. So yeah,

there was it was really interesting to feel the feelings

of imposter syndrome just bubble up, like old, faithful, and just

wash all over me. Thankfully, because of this group, and

because of having the conversations that I like to

have with my friends, you realize that one incident one

shoot doesn't define who you are as a photographer, and artist or

anything like that. And that aberrations happen, and that

there's a law of averages for a reason. But man, if it didn't,

if it didn't hit me pretty hard last night, I tell you what, so

great conversation to start with today. I would love to answer

any questions you may have Nicole?

Well, that's good, because I'm gonna ask. All

right, so yes, I can empathize with you there. I've certainly

had clients where that was the case, for some reason, our

visions just weren't connecting. They weren't responding well,

they were uncomfortable, despite all my best efforts, just just

those times when your groove does not fall into their groove.

And, and it's rough, you do sit back and you question yourself.

And I think sometimes, that is the price of comfort zones,

right? Because when we've been working a certain way, in a

certain style for a long time, we've built up these really

beautiful comfort zones. And all of a sudden, somebody comes

along, who forces us outside our comfort zone. And then it's

like, Whoa, I don't know what I'm doing here. I don't like it

doesn't match up with anything I believe about myself. Just

bytes. So you said it through you for loop for a couple of

hours, which is totally understandable. We talked about

yesterday, the fact that we need to feel our feelings, so

important to have the time to process what's actually going

on. But then you said you talked to some friends, and things kind

of started feeling better. So what does that process look like

for you? What kind of conversations are you having?

And is there anything that you're focusing on to help pull

you out of that space? And remind you that even if a major

league baseball player strikes out, they're still pretty

freakin awesome at what they do.

Yeah, I think, you know, the, the, the

conversations that I have, most of the time, if I get to the

point where I'm calling someone for help, it's usually because I

need them to listen to my analysis and figure out if I'm

crazy or not, right. So a lot of times I've already worked

through as many of the angles As I can work through, but I need

someone to hear me and be like, Alright, you're way off base or

Yeah, no, I get that totally. So for me, you know, it was taken

that beat that I've talked about before and just kind of

breathing a little bit calming down and saying like, alright,

let's look at this. If I weren't in my head, how would I be

observing what was going on? And, you know, look at the

entire situation, look at me, as a photographer, look at the

service that I provided and the preparation that went into it,

did I do everything that I could, so on and so forth. So

when I when I get to talking to my friends, it becomes, alright,

here's what I'm feeling. Is this off base? Can you tell me, you

know, was there a part of the story that you heard that I'm,

you know, rationalizing away? Or, you know, am I making too

big of a deal out of this, but this is what I'm feeling. This

is how I've analyzed it, give me your input, right. And that

tends to help because usually, you get a big, fat dose of

Listen, you're in your head, get out of your head, stop it. At

least, that's how my friends treat me. And from there, it's

like, all right, you know, you start to see things not so

terribly, and you really get a chance to just kind of sit back

and observe it, you know, objectively and say, you know,

things weren't as bad as you think they are. But it's okay,

that you felt the way that you did, it means there are ways

that you can improve for next time. And that's the spin that I

always put on it, what did I learn? How can I make it better

for next time. And a lot of times, if I'm left to myself,

and just thinking of those things, rather than talking it

out with somebody, I'll just spin and spin and spin, the act

of verbalizing it, and actually, having a confidant that I can

speak to about these things that understands, really helps get,

you know, to the end of those feelings quicker.

And is there anything that you look for? So I

know, when I'm struggling, there are certain people I will go to

for certain things, is there anything that you look for and

who you decide to confide in? For those times?

Totally, it's for this type of stuff, it's got

to be another artists got to be another photographer, someone

that understands the way the brain works for business, it

would be something different. Or someone different with a

different set of skills. For me, my artistic friends are the go

to for any of those kind of internal struggles, because they

can relate, they can understand. I don't want a pity party, and I

don't want someone to agree with me, I just need someone to

understand. So that I don't have to describe four years of

therapy 30 seconds. So just someone that's empathetic and

can understand coming from the same kind of artistic point of

view.

Yeah, that makes absolutely perfect sense. So

what we're looking at this morning, if you're just joining

us, is imposter syndrome, how we deal with that, as artists and

business people with this internal conflict week that

we're doing. And Matt's just talking about his experience

yesterday, the feelings that it left him with, and then how he

addressed those feelings from trying to be objective with

himself and asking himself the kinds of questions he would ask

somebody else. You know, does this one experience actually

represent your entire career? Well, no, it does not, in fact,

and then making sure that he's looking to somebody he trusts

who has had the same kind of experiences in the past, who

would understand and will tell him the truth. And I think it's

so important that you mentioned that, Matt, because it's really

easy for us to find people who will blow smoke up our ass, have

very happily. And often the things that they say to us in

those circumstances are the things that they would like to

believe about themselves, right? But we want people who will be

honest, even if that requires a little bit of tough love. I know

for me, there's rarely anything that will force me to grow as

much as somebody looking at me in the face. And just laying

everything out on the table. And I've had this happen several

times in my career where I was like, Ah, okay, I clearly needed

to hear that even though it felt like a punch in the chest. That

was important. I'll deal with those things have been really

important to me. And so having those people, those trusted

people, those friends that you trust, can I feel in your front

is a really big deal not only for dealing with imposter

syndrome, but for all of the different issues we face. It's

always so, so important to have people in your corner, who will

lovingly tell you the truth. Nicole, I want to give you a

chance to respond and then get to Becca and Kat. Yeah,

absolutely.

So I just wanted to kind of follow up on that it

is a conscious choice to lean on my, my human friends for that

type of support, rather than go to the internet. And I know,

it's ironic that I'm saying that on like, an Internet app, I get

that. But if I were to go to Facebook and go into one of my

groups and type something out, I'm never going to provide the

right level of context, I'm going to probably get a lot more

affirmations or it will take the conversation direction that I

don't want it to go. And I don't need me personally, I don't need

group affirmation, I don't need people telling me it's going to

be okay, I need people to tell me, You fucked up, or you should

have done this. And I don't feel like the internet is the place

to get that, which is why I keep my circle extraordinarily small.

And I keep my friends very, very close. And you know, with that,

I just, there are time in place for internet forums to talk

about things, then there are a time and place where you you

need to have a rational human being in front of you or on the

phone talking directly about your situation. That's the

reason I choose to do it that way.

And I agree with you 100%. I think that's

brilliant. I do the same thing. And that's also, you know, we

mentioned, what do you look for in the people that you go to

when you have these kinds of questions. And that's one of the

things, you know, can I trust them to do that? And are they?

Are they going to show up for me that way? Which it's not

something that we can guarantee when we're talking to people

online? So I'm with you there. Cat or Becca? Do either of you

guys ever suffer with imposter syndrome? Or fight with imposter

syndrome? And how do you deal?

I think I think I'm to a point where I can

recognize imposter syndrome in myself relatively quickly. Like

there are some days where you're just like, why the fuck am I

even here, I can't accomplish this. This is I'm in way over my

head, and suddenly somebody else is gonna notice, right. But it's

interesting. I was recently at an event, it was a women's

networking thing. And I'm in a room with like 200 Women in

Business. And it's very evident to me that even the

photographers at the event don't value photography the way that I

do. And one of the things that I've really been leaning into

over the last probably two years is developing my skills as an

artist versus business. Like I think I've got a fairly good

grasp on on business stuff and mindset and that kind of thing.

And they had a marketplace at this event, where like, many of

the women in business, were selling all of their stuff. And

there was another artist there who is a painter. Now this woman

had merch that was like so on brand for her super funky like

lots just really cool stuff. And I'm looking around and I'm like

interesting that I wasn't, like notified or invited to provide

any kind of whatever for this marketplace. And I got to

thinking and I was like, well all I would have his photo. So

I'm just not gonna worry about it. And then I got to thinking,

and I was like, Well, why can't I have things in a marketplace

that people might want to purchase outside of? A photo

shoots, right, like, because when we're sort of learning

about all of the networking stuff, and being a vendor, it's

like, how do we sell photoshoot sell photoshoot sell photo

shoot. And I was like, what if I made a retail line that was in

support of that art brand? And then I was like, Who the fuck?

Are you kidding? Like, you're not developing a retail line

like, but people don't want your fucking coffee mugs. And then I

was like, Wait, what if I made art out of it? Oh, and so I

start designing things. And I'm talking to like production line

people and then I sat down yesterday after one of my calls

and was like, I'm actually doing this. I'm developing a retail

line. Okay. All right. And I'm like just following that flow

and realizing like Like, that part of me is like, Who the fuck

do you think you are, is just needs to take a seat. Like, she

can just go sit over there in the corner, because obviously,

like everything's showing up for me to do this. So I'm gonna ride

the wave and see where it goes. Now it could be like a total

fucking disaster and money suck, I don't know. But I'm going to

give it a whirl and just be like, You know what? That part

of me that's over here like cat just focus on photoshoots. Like,

that's your business and accepting the part of me that is

an artist that wants to make more than just photo and just

sort of explore that space.

So it sounds like from what you're saying cat that

a big part of confronting those feelings of imposter syndrome is

actually doing the thing anyway. And being like, look, here's the

physical proof.

Yeah, yeah, like, Okay. Now, when I talk

about, like the business and the mindset piece, one of the things

with mindset that I really try and hold true to for me, and

this comes up with fear, whether it's imposter syndrome or

otherwise, is recognizing it for what it is as just an emotion

and saying, is this true? Yes, okay, go do the thing, or don't

go to the thing. And then if it's false, because emotions are

not reality, they are a construct in your being, right?

It's not truth. If it's not true, that you just go and do

the thing. Now, it could turn out to be a total fucking

failure. But at the end of the day, like, I would much rather

you know, try and fail than to not accomplish whatever and

wonder, man, what would have happened if I had done X, Y, or

Z.

I love that. I love that. I love that. And I think

you're absolutely right, that a huge and important part of how

we deal with this issue is being able to recognize that emotions

aren't truth. So let's say that one more time for the people and

back, emotions are not truth. They are a reaction, either to

environmental stimuli or your bosses or you Beloved, B, this

is. But just say, is it worth doing anyway? Like, is it true,

in spite of the emotions, and is it worth doing anyway, and

sometimes, there will be things up for you, that are worth

failing at. And when they are, it doesn't matter how you feel

about it. This matters. And it's can be really difficult to force

yourself to do something when you're having deep feelings of

fear. But that's the only time courage can exist. Courage

exists at literally no other time. There has to be fear to

overcome, for courage to be a thing. So keep that in mind. At

those times, when fear pops up, and tries to choke you, that's

the world telling you. Now it's time to be a hero. So something

important to remember. All right, so, so far we have when

dealing with feelings of imposter syndrome, taking a

little bit of time making sure we give ourselves a chance to

process those feelings. asking ourselves to look at a situation

objectively. Is this true? Is this just my feelings? Is it

worth doing anyway? And can I turn to people I trust to give

me true, honest feedback that will be meant for my good. So we

can talk about the process some of these emotions, and not all

of us will have those people close to us that we can trust.

If you don't try journaling. Try speaking out loud to yourself.

Anything to help take what's inside and get it outside of you

is going to be really, really helpful just to dealing with

what's going on. So, Becca, do you deal with feelings of

imposter syndrome? And when you do if you do, how do you handle

them?

Sure, though, I think I've reached a good point for

myself and being able to juggle, juggle, juggle those particular

feelings. But yeah, as usual for me, team, empathy, Team

compassion, and just remembering that other people also

experienced that self doubt And, like, every everything about

work and careers and humanity, and like society is all

completely made up. And so I'm not really beholden to anything

greater than myself, if that makes sense. And so like, no

one's gonna find out that I'm a fraud, because I'm not a fraud.

I'm authentically myself, and I'm capable of what I'm capable

of just like anyone else is, and everyone else has started at a

beginning to get to where they are now. And yeah, that's,

that's my big scary approach to imposter syndrome. And it's

worked pretty well.

So let's, let's explore that idea a little bit.

Because I think it's gonna be really helpful to people. This

reminder, that reality is a construct, like our experience

of reality. And then the, let's call it the corporate illusion

of reality. So what we do, as a group of people, is come up with

an idea about what reality looks like. And then we agree on it.

We go, yeah, that's, that's what my illusion looks like yours,

too. Yeah, yeah, our illusions look roughly like this. So we

will agree that this is real. And that is. What's in our, in

our own heads. I know this can sound like a really strange

concept. But the truth is your brain. Your brain is in a little

black box processing electrical information. And it is making up

ideas about what that electrical information means. This is soft,

this is hard, that is bright, this is green, that hurts, this

is pleasurable. It's constantly taking those signals and

interpreting them. So what you really have is you sitting on a

little chair, in a dark room with a VR headset on. And that

what that VR headset construct is what you believe to be true

about the world. And when enough of us have the same illusion,

reality, and we measure it, and we quantify it. And basically,

what Becca's saying here is that if it's all if it's all an

illusion, everybody's starting from the same place. Like who,

who else gets to tell you what the rules are, to who you get to

be, and how you can behave and what you have to believe about

yourself, and what success looks like and what imposter means and

all of these things, she's beholding to herself. She

doesn't have to live up to the rules of somebody else's

illusion or somebody else's VR headset. When you think about it

like that, there literally cannot be such a thing as an

imposter. Because here we all are, collectively dreaming. So I

hope that that makes sense. I know it's kind of a weird, a

weird thing to think about. And this is not like mystical

woowoo. This is just an analogy for what's actually physically

happening in your brain. And understanding that down at its

base level, really means exactly what she said that at the end of

the day mean to be an imposter? Who gets to define that? Why are

you being mean to yourself? My mom, my mom will often when I

when I get into these areas of struggle, she will tell me quit

being mean to my daughter. And I'm like, oh, man, you don't

realize that you're doing that you don't realize that what

you're doing is talking to yourself bullying yourself in a

way that you would never do to somebody else. Especially if all

of those things are just a construct anyway. What a stupid

thing to bully yourself over ideas that don't actually

physically exist in the world. I know that that goes down a crazy

tangent. So you'll have to forgive me for that one. I want

to give you guys time to respond to everything that has been said

this far. Before I share my personal way of dealing with

imposter syndrome. And then we ask our friends in the audience

if they are willing to share how they deal with that internal

conflict of imposters.

Nicole I'm gonna ask Kat to hold me honest on

this but Johnny Edward posted a meme kados Couple days ago, I

think maybe last week where it said something along the lines.

Don't worry because I don't have it in front of me was something

along the lines of when you feel imposter syndrome, you've set

the bar so high and you respect your art so much that you feel

like you're not doing justice. Now, I don't know if that's the

exact quote, but it hit me really hard is that this is

coming from a place that you respect what you do so much, and

you want to be so good at it, that you often bully yourself or

beat yourself up about it. But it's held true to the respect

for that art, and that you have high standards. And I found that

relatively comforting, to be quite honest. And I was like,

Yeah, you know what, I do like photography so much, that I

don't think that I'm ever going to be as good as it as good at

it as I could be. Because I love the art of it so much. I don't

know if that's good or bad or destructive or not. But I just

kind of dug the spin on it. It was a positive thing.

Yeah, I remember that meme. I remember thinking

the same thing like, Ooh, good way to think about it.

Yeah, I was just, I don't think I saved

that. But no, I remember what you were talking about. And

understanding that you do respect the the thing, right?

Whether it's art or something else, enough to feel like what

you're able to execute doesn't meet that expectation. That that

is a truth. Right? Like, that is the moment where you can be

like, Okay, I'm not as great as I want to be yet. But it's, it's

also giving you an opportunity to set the intention and go

after being better. And developing that that sense of

mastery to try and reach that bar. You know, when when I

started in photography, like God, my work is garbage. And I

was an imposter. Because I wanted it. But I knew that every

time that I had the opportunity to practice, whether with

clients or models or whatever, like that was an opportunity to

try and get to a higher level in my skill set and my ability to

execute something I was proud of, and something my clients

would be proud of, too. And that's really like the best way

to defeat the imposter side of things is like, Well, look, this

is an opportunity for me to grow.

Yeah, I think that really comes back to our

discussion on what a growth mindset is right, we can either

look at a difficulty ahead as impossible, or an opportunity.

If we look at it as an opportunity, that changes

everything, because it changes what you believe yourself to be

capable of and long term. So I love both of those. Both of

those things, guys, I hope folks are paying attention. If you're

just joining us today, we're talking about imposter syndrome,

this internal conflict, and how we tackle it. We've had some

really fantastic advice so far, everything from looking at

things objectively, making sure we take time to feel our

feelings, and address those. But understand that those do not

represent reality. And so we need to look for the the

evidence and find out what the evidence says, We need to talk

to people and get their feedback. And these, hopefully

are people we know we trust, who will tell us the truth, for our

own good. And remember that much of what we believe to be true,

is in fact, just a construct that we've all agreed upon. And

we don't really have anybody to answer to but ourselves. And

that sometimes these feelings will arise from the deep respect

for what we do, and that we recognize that it takes a lot to

reach such a high bar. So keeping those things in mind, as

you look at dealing with imposter syndrome. I'll share a

little bit about how I do this. And then friends in the

audience, if you have ever tackled imposter syndrome, we'd

love to hear from you. How do you overcome it? How do you deal

with it? Go ahead and raise your hands and we'll pull you up. So

for me the way I deal with imposter syndrome is that I

don't and I'll explain what I mean by that. A big a big aspect

that separates imposter syndrome from just general anxiety about

a situation is the result has to be I am a fraud, right? It can't

be here's something I haven't done before. I might not be good

at it yet. It means I am a fraud and the only way I am a fraud is

because everybody Find out about it. So there's two aspects

there. There's the fact that people have to figure it out,

right? They need to find out. So there's a corporate aspect, the

group, or society, or just the other person is gonna know, I've

been faking it this whole time. And then the result is No, I am

a fraud. So those kind of two things have to be present. And

for me, well, hang on, let me backtrack a little bit. So those

two things have to be present. Which presupposes if the idea

that somebody is going to find out your fraud terrifies you,

that means you are deriving some level of yourself value from

being good at the thing, you fear, you're a fraud. And so

somewhere in there, a part a piece of your identity is built

around being good at this thing, or being a master of this thing.

Because if you were not, if you knew I just picked up a

watercolor brush for the first time. And somebody said, Man,

that painting is not very good. You wouldn't go God, I'm an

imposter. You would say, Yeah, this is my first one. Right? But

if who you believe yourself to be, and the value that you have

for yourself is somehow centered around being great at

watercolors. And somebody says, Man, that's not very good

watercolor painting. And your reaction is a fraud. And it

hurts. And I don't want people to find out the reason you don't

want them to find out is because being good at this thing is

important to your idea who you are. We've talked before about

the fact that we each build an ego for ourselves a construct

that is kind of a seat of our self value. And when something

challenges that identity, it psychologically causes pain. And

so we will go out of our way to avoid the pain that will be

caused, if such a thing happens. This is why imposter syndrome is

so painful, because it threatens to expose the fact that we build

our identity around a thing we don't necessarily believe to be

true.

Okay, all of that to say, I have been very intentional about

building my identity around being a learner. So if somebody

were to come up and say, I saw Nicole shoot her processes crap,

I don't know how she gets these photos, it's probably all luck.

This is not frightened me. Because I'm a learner. This is

an opportunity for me to learn a new thing. That doesn't mean I'm

necessarily going to give what that person says Credence. But

the idea of somebody saying she's not as good as she said,

she is does not scare me even a little bit, because it doesn't

threaten my identity. And that's where imposter syndrome becomes

so dangerous. It threatens your identity. And so, if you have

built who you are around being the best photographer in the

room, when somebody finds out, you're not as good as you think

you are, that imposter syndrome is going to show up and bite

your head off. But if you have built your identity around,

being kind, being generous, being somebody who's always

willing to learn and take criticism, if your identity is

based in those areas, imposter syndrome literally ceases to

exist, because it can't exist in that environment. How can you be

an imposter at something you believe you're constantly

learning and growing into. And this happens a lot of times when

photographers are creating tutorials for folks, they will

build the tutorial in such a way that you don't see them make

mistakes. You don't see what their lights in the wrong place.

Because they need to maintain the illusion that they don't

screw things up. Which is not true. No matter how good we are.

We don't get perfect light placement 100 out of 100 times.

Most of the time, we got to go fiddle with things a little bit.

So the way that I deal with imposter syndrome is that I

don't build my identity around being good, or being a master or

whatever of the thing. I build my identity around areas that

can't break. So that if somebody does show up and say she doesn't

even know what this is or what it means. I can be like, cool.

What does it mean? Instead of being like, oh my god, they just

expose the fact that I'm an imposter cuz I can't be not when

I built my worldview in that way, not only my worldview, but

who I believed myself to be. So that is the way that I deal with

imposter syndrome. So I want to give y'all a little bit of time

for feedback, and then want to start addressing friends in the

room, I noticed we have, oh, maybe my thing is not updating,

it's showing me that Jean and sissala have their hands raised.

So I want to make sure we grab you guys up. But before we hear

from you, Matt, Becca, cat want to give you guys a chance to

respond. And then we'd love to hear from Jean. And after that.

No comments, I'm looking forward to seeing what a

sisal and Jean have to say.

Same. Also, I changed my profile picture. And

it's so that I can look really strangely at Matt.

Thanks, Ken. All right. I love it. Okay, Jean,

let's hear from you. And then from CES.

Well, you know, I just wanted to say that, I mean,

I don't make mistakes at all. And I'm one of the best

photographers out there. I mean, I just hang out here on the

artist forge in case I can help y'all figure something out. I

just, I thought that was a foregone conclusion. But

well, obviously.

You know, so I recently went through this, I

have been really, really inspired by somebody. And I feel

like I'm always calling her out. So I won't do that. But she's,

you know, in this group in portrait photography, and I

recently had a friend here from Columbia, and she wanted to do a

photo shoot. And so I nervously started to think, Okay, what am

I going to do? What am I going to do? What am I going to do?

And there's this one particular image that I really love from

this individual's work. And I sent the picture to her of

herself. And I said, Hey, I'm going to try to replicate this.

And immediately, she came back with an extremely encouraging

response kind of excited, wanted me to keep her posted to kind of

see what I did. And I got really good feedback when I attempted

to do the same type of image. And I guess, I'd never thought

about this. But as I'm listening to you talk today, it seems to

me like I've always been, I mean, I probably come off as a

bad boy. But you know, in my life, I've always asked for

forgiveness instead of permission in life. But I feel

like sometimes, especially when it's somebody that I respect so

much that I prefer to get some sort of, I guess, approval to

attempt to emulate somebody, because it makes me feel more

comfortable doing that. And I've learned that no matter how hard

I try, I mean, I, I gave it a good swing. And I'm really happy

with what I came up with. But it's nothing at all like what

she did. It's nowhere near as good in my opinion. But the

person I photographed loved it, I was really happy with it,

especially considering the fact I don't have a studio, I don't

have all the the experience and the tools and all this kind of

stuff. I I was really happy with it. And I just felt very

comforted and very appreciative of the fact that this person

supported me wanting to emulate her something that she did. And

it occurs to me that there's two sides to the whole imposter

thing. I mean, there's the artist who might feel like

they're posturing someone. But then there's also the artist who

people want to be who want to emulate. And I guess I just feel

like because of the people that I've surrounded myself with, I

guess virtually these days in my life, I feel very strongly about

at whatever point I get to the point where someone ever wants

to emulate me. I'm going to throw that person all the

support and and love that I can because to me, that would be a

huge honor. And I would love that and no matter what, you're

always going to put your own positive spin on it. So I don't

think there's anything wrong with trying to emulate work. So

I guess, in my mind when we're talking about it posture

syndrome. That's the version I'm thinking about it. I mean, I,

every time I post a YouTube video, I feel like an imposter.

But, but you know, when it comes to like copying someone's work

or attempting to recreate something that you love that

you've seen somebody else do, I do tend to ask for permission,

or at least kind of seek that approval, I probably don't need

to do that. But it makes me feel more free to create. And that

experience that I had with this particular portrait was really

fun and positive, because I wasn't worried that this person

was going to judge me for trying to do something that she did. So

I just that's kind of where I am with imposter syndrome.

Definitely something I have had to deal with a lot as I

transition into photography full time, I'm done.

Really interesting, I think Gene to, to look at

imposter syndrome from the perspective of trying to create

derivative works or, or similar styles or whatever. Because it's

certainly not something that I would have necessarily thought

of when it comes to imposter syndrome in general. And

definitely an interesting take, and something worth worth

thinking about, and how that applies, and how we each reach

our own levels of comfort, with the way that we approach our

work. So I'm definitely gonna be thinking about that one today.

This is a I would love to hear from you this morning as well.

Good morning,

I'm gonna do this pretty quickly, because I have a

client coming. So I'm living on the wild side here in 10

minutes. Okay, so basically, the way I have a ton of imposter

syndrome all the time, every day, in many different ways, in

business, in my art, all the stuff. And one of the things

that I try to do is something that I was taught both by my

therapist, but also teachers from my past. And that is, what

do you know to be true? Ask yourself the question. I know I

talk a lot about talking with yourself, and people must think

I'm mad at this point. But there's a really valid point in

asking yourself questions and be curious. So I'm like, Okay, what

do I know to be true, I can observe within myself that are

know, based on my work, my credentials, all these wonderful

things that I am a good photographer that I know to be

true. And then I just kind of go on asking myself questions. Is

it true that you are an imposter? just to simplify

things like Nope, that is not true. It's not something that I

can actively observe. First of all, it's something that is a

story that I'm making up in my head about something, it is not

the factual truth. And I'm a very emotional person. So going

about these things in a very factual logical way, feels in

the beginning, very counter intuitive. But it also is really

good at curbing that emotion that a lot of artists have.

Because let's face it, art is often the result of a lot of

emotion. So what I try to do is go about it in a logical way and

just kind of inquiry within myself. Is this true? What do I

know to be true? That's basically it. And I'm gonna

probably run in a moment sooner.

I love that. I know David talked about this. It's

been a couple months, maybe now, I guess. But he basically said

what you did, which is bringing the scientific method into your

thinking they're like, is this an observable phenomenon? No,

it's not. Which is, which is such a great thing to do. I

know. Sorry, guys. It is time for cars and leaf blowers. Okay,

I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and mute myself and give Erica just

thought.

Hey, I hope y'all can hear me I'm at my studio today

doing yard work good times, but pumped inside because I wanted

to first of all, thank Nicole for so eloquently, saying what I

feel I where I have placed my identity, which is learning. I,

you know, I certainly have done my best to try not to place my

identity and what other people think of me or my work, because

they've not earned that right, you know, and I'm not gonna give

them that power. Even. Even my husband sometimes doesn't like

my work, and I'm like, well, that's okay. Secondly, I think

it's important to me not to be the best photographer or be the

number one or you know, whatever. It's to be the best I

can be. And I know that that will never stop. So, like you

said, if I'm placing my identity and learning, you know, and

somebody says, you're not that good. I'm like, I'm still

learning I'm still, you know, and I hope I never get to that

point where I feel like I have arrived because that means I've

lost my purpose. And so, again, I enjoy the process, and I

placed my identity in learning and I love the way you put that.

Ooh, Erica, what you just said right there. I

think it's so important. I'm gonna repeat it. They don't get

a chance to speak on your identity because they don't have

that right.

Like, Amen.

Yes. So, so, so good. Why do we do that to

ourselves? Give somebody else, somebody who hasn't earned it.

Somebody who doesn't have our best interests at heart,

somebody we don't trust somebody, etc, etc. Even even

when they are people we do. Why do we give them the right to

speak into our identity? Oh, I'm gonna be thinking about that one

all day. I love it so much. Okay, we're nearing the end of

the hour. So it's time for final thoughts. I will come in and

help close things down towards the end. But it's been a really

fantastic conversation today full of so much good advice and

and vulnerable personal experiences, which are so

appreciated. It's time for final thoughts. Go

Nicole, I'm in posturing cat by looking at that

now.

This is getting weird. So weird. I think

toward Matt cat is looking at Matt jeans pretending

to look at Matt. Match.

Funny thing, is this a little change tomorrow?

And you'll have to change your your pictures? Again. I think

you know, the the final thought that I have is, it's clear that

we're all faced with this from one time to another doesn't mean

we have to dwell on it. But I love what Cisco was talking

about is is it true and 99.99% of the time it's not true. So

just kind of be gentle with yourself and keep reminding

yourself that it's the this is going to sound like a hallmark

thing. But it's it's the journey that you're on and look back

every now and again and you'll see how far you've actually come

you're not an imposter.

One little tidbit that I've held on to that I have

to credit to photographer, Laura Sheridan, is when you do receive

that external criticism. So like Nicole and Erica Sue, I found

that very interesting that you guys talk about, like, you know

how how you personally respond to people's judgement, or you

know, if they are considering you an imposter or not. But

anyway, so when you get criticism, all you have to say,

whether that is you know, actually to the person or to

yourself is just okay. That's it. That's the end of that

conversation, and then you continue doing what you're

doing. And I just felt like that was so incredibly powerful. Like

that's it. You don't have to stew on it. You don't have to

make it an argument with someone you know whether or not you are

valid, or what you do is valid just okay. That's it. I love it.

I love it, guys. All right. Sorry, if you happen

to hear the dishes clinking my children apparently think that

the entire house is a buffet, and they can leave their plates

and their cups and their glasses just anywhere they want. So

busboy mom is here to save the day. All right. So imposter

syndrome, like Matt said, something that every artist is

going to come up against at some point, it doesn't mean that this

is a psychological issue we're going to deal with and

everything for the rest of our lives, there's certainly going

to be certain areas where this thing pops up. And that little

voice inside your head says, oh, everybody's gonna find out that

you're really not the thing. You're really not a great

photographer, you're not a great business person, you've been

lying the whole time. And it's important to remember where that

comes from. Right? We have a psychological imperative to

protect our identity, because that's the seat of who we are.

Which means our brain wants to keep us inside of our comfort

zone. It doesn't want us to take risks. And when we take the

risks are the times when we are most likely to expose ourselves.

If you

only ever do The one thing that you're

comfortable with the chances you'll be exposed as a fraud,

pretty slim. But as soon as you start taking chances, you put

yourself out there, you hang up your sign you put in for an

award, you compete in the competition, you have a client

who is a high profile client, all the sudden, the possibility

that you may be exposed as a fraud as an imposter goes up

exponentially. But if we take the time to ask ourselves, Is it

true? Look at it objectively, allow ourselves to feel those

feelings, it is okay to feel those feelings. But remind

ourselves that feelings are not reality. We have proof that will

show us otherwise. We talk to people we trust who have our

best interests at heart. And who can tell us? Look, you're making

shit up, stop bullying my friend, stop bullying my

daughter. And also when we really take the time to consider

how are we building our identity. And have we

constructed our view of ourselves in such a way that it

must be? True in order for us to be a worthwhile human, I must be

the greatest photographer in my town, I must never make mistakes

or people will know. Man, we're constructing our identity in a

dangerous place. Because it will fail eventually, at some point,

we are going to fail. And then all of the sudden, even if

nobody else knows it, but us. We have just reinforced the thing

we fear most about ourselves to ourselves, ah ha that client,

that difficult client finally showed up. And here's the proof,

I've been expecting to find all along that I really am an

imposter. And all the sudden, now we've got the proofs in the

opposite direction, the thing we didn't want to be true, heaven

forbid. So we have to cut it off. before we ever get to that

point, we need to understand where our identity is being

built, we need to ask ourselves, like Erica mentioned, who gets

the right to speak into our lives that way who gets the

right to speak to our identity? And where is that identity being

built. And if it is in an anti fragile place, then you can't be

hurt by being exposed. Because what are you what is being

exposed, that you're constantly becoming a better version of the

person that you are, that you're constantly aiming to grow and

learn that your goal is to be of service to people or to help

people, you can't knock anybody down in those areas. That can't

You can't be exposed. You can't be an imposter learner, or an

imposter giver, or an imposter service person. So just a lot of

things to think about when it comes to how do we deal with

these feelings. Try this stuff, give it a go. Find out which

techniques are going to work best for you. Journaling,

talking to folks. giving yourself the time to feel those

feelings. Just give all that stuff a try when those feelings

pop up, find out what works. And if none of this stuff resonates

with you. As I've said before,

maybe you don't need it. Maybe you're not at a place in your

life or your career, when this is relevant to you. And if not,

that is friggin awesome. If you ever happen to come to that

place, try to remember these things. And if you've got

something else, a different way that you deal with imposter

syndrome or these feelings, I really hope you'll share it in

the Facebook group. I hope you'll go and be a light and

provide advice for other people who deal with these issues. That

can be really incredibly difficult. Shine a light

backwards on your path a little bit so they can see where you

came from. And maybe you walk in your footsteps to a place where

they won't have to deal with this as much anymore. All right,

y'all. Fantastic conversation today. Thank you to everybody

who participated in it and shared your experiences and what

it's like for you to deal with imposter syndrome and the steps

that you take to help get past and through it. Hopefully it was

helpful. Tomorrow we're going to be talking about fear of

success. So I hope this low we'll be able to be here with us

for that one because I know it was a particular thing that she

mentioned we're going to talk about that tried to be

constructed a little bit See if we can get to the bottom of

where that comes from and figure out how we can deal with it so

that we don't hold ourselves back from the things that we

really want. We'll continue talking about internal conflict

for the rest of this week, both here and in the Facebook group.

Hope you guys will join us right in early tomorrow morning at 7am

Mountain Standard Time that it's 6am for the West Coast and 9am

for the East Coast. In the meantime, have a fantastic day.

Go make something amazing, and we'll see you tomorrow.

Thanks again for listening to this live clubhouse

discussion moderated by all of us at the artist Forge. We hope

you found the information useful and then it helps you gain a

little bit of insight as to how you work on your craft. For more

episodes, please join us each weekday on clubhouse or visit

the artists forge.com and go make something incredible