It’s me, Mark Stone, and in this episode of the Backseat Driver Podcast, I’m joined by Sam Grange-Bailey, a highly respected classic car dealer who shares her distinctive path into the automotive world.

Sam talks about growing up in a family deeply rooted in car trading and how she helped evolve her father’s traditional business by embracing new technology and the early use of the internet. We explore how that shift changed the way classic cars are bought and sold, and how adaptation has become essential in a modern marketplace.

I dig into the realities of the classic car trade with Sam, from understanding market values and spotting genuine desirability to balancing emotion with commercial sense. We also reflect on why classic cars continue to hold such powerful sentimental appeal for enthusiasts and collectors alike.

This episode offers a thoughtful look at how the classic car industry has evolved, blending heritage with innovation while staying driven by passion.

Mentioned in this episode:

Visit the Backseat Driver Podcast Sponsors

GAZ Shocks - Home of the 116 Trophy and the 120 Coupe Cup. Find them at www.gazshocks.com | Hodder Tyres - Trusted brands, every season, every condition. Visit www.hoddertyres.co.uk | Tarox Brakes - The Art of Slowing Down, precision-built in Italy. Check out www.tarox.com | SAS Autos - Experts in high-quality servicing and classic car restoration. Discover more at sas-autos.co.uk

I'd like to introduce the backseat driver, somebody who is probably a little bit unusual.

Unusual because she is, I don't know what you say.

Secondhand car dealer, Used car dealer, Classic car dealer.

Classic car dealer.

Classic car dealer.

Sam Grange Bailey.

Sam, welcome to the backseat driver.

Thank you.

Mark, how did you get into all this?

How does a very nice lady get into dealings?

Because it's probably not the kindest environment to be working in.

I'm a car dealer's daughter, Zido.

I just, I grew up with it.

Had a conversation with my dad when I left college about wanting to go and work for him full time.

And he, probably quite rightly at the time, told me it was no game for a bird.

So I went and worked in the sports trade for a few years, which was probably, arguably tougher for, for, for a young girl in the 80s and 90s.

But all the time I was still sort of working with my dad, doing the photos and the adverts and, and obviously playing with the cars.

Oh, no, he's never.

New cars.

No, no, no.

So even back in the 70s when I was a kid, it was all sort of classic and exotic cars then.

He never did anything, anything new.

Yeah.

So when did you get into actually selling them?

Did your dad eventually say, right, you can sell cars, join, come and stand along and sell cars?

Well, even when I was, had a, had a separate career, I was still sort of buying and selling them with him just in my sort of evenings and weekends and that sort of thing.

And I'd said to my dad, look, this is ridiculous.

You know, we're going to develop 35 millimeter film and the post office to send photographs off.

You know, there's an easy way to do it.

We need a website, we need email.

My dad was quite resistant with technology initially, so.

So, well, I'm, you know, on maternity leave, got a bit of time on my hands.

So I'm going to do it and if you don't see the advantages of it, we can drop it.

Yep.

But I think you will so be.

Like a bit of like the advent of the Internet.

Well, I don't think it was the advent of the Internet because I've been using it for years at work, but I think in terms of old school car dealers adopting it, it was, it was kind of, it was becoming to the point where you would, you'd probably fall to the wayside a bit.

If you, if you didn't in terms of the advertising and the sort of.

Route to market or find the deal, use the websites.

Yeah.

And I.

We were moving.

It's roundabout that, you know we were moving from the autotrader magazine to the autotrader website.

Central viewing, didn't he?

Well every Wednesday morning.

Thursday, Thursday morning.

So it was, you know, it used to be exchange of Martin Manchester Evening News and then the autotrader launched and that obviously took a big slice of.

Of the advertising market.

But so yeah, we set that up and obviously my dad is very impressed.

I could take a photograph and press a few buttons and the customer had a. Yeah.

Three or four.

Three or four minutes later.

Yeah.

So we just started to do a lot more.

I mean we've always done a lot of business internationally because we've dealt in quite special rare cars.

So we've always sort of bought and, and sold for import exports as well.

So I think the fact that it was just a much quicker and easier process.

Yeah for my dad that he actually instantly saw the advantages of it.

So that was sort of the beginning of the end for the showroom because we used to have a showroom on Princess Parkway going into Manchester.

Yeah.

So when there was a sort of.

The bulk of the business was coming from the emails in electronic advertising or they were still coming from the print advertising but we were dealing with them electronically.

Yeah.

The fact that my dad had to sort of drive to Manchester every day, open up the showroom, sit there all day, you know, when the bulk of the business is coming from elsewhere.

So we, we sort of shifted it.

We.

We had a big unit in Mobili near the airport.

My dad had a big eight car garage at home.

So we sort of went to that appointment only sort of Internet based business.

We ran it off the website and.

Yeah.

And I sort of never not worked for him sort of full time.

So all through having the kids I worked for my dad and my husband around the children we were three and five years.

So it was.

I had to be quite sort of flexible with anything I was doing.

So that's why the cars sort of were ideal because obviously they've always been and for most dealers they are.

There's a hobby element to it.

Yeah.

I think you've got to enjoy it to do it.

It's.

It's too hard to do it if you don't enjoy it.

You say you dealt with specialist cars one sort of.

Because I mean over the years specialist cars have changed, haven't they.

Well yeah, I mean of course there's.

The advent, I'll say probably the 70s of the classic car.

I mean until then it was old cars really, wasn't it?

Or cheap cars.

Well, there's always the argument about when does a used car become a, become a classic car?

And that's kind of been going on for forever in a day.

But so in the 70s when I was a kid, my dad always liked pre war cars.

So you've always got quite war stuff bought and sold to Siro Macalpine we were talking about earlier.

He, he, he always liked the pre war stuff.

He's always liked his roles in Bentley.

So in those days it was sort of Wraiths Dawns, very much the Clouds one PS and threes.

And my dad has always sold American cars so we were importing them in the like.

On your, on a lot of your social media and your podcast you are to be seen with a lot of the big like 60s Americans.

My Yank tank.

60s and 70s.

Yeah, yeah, got very soft spot for those.

And I, I and you know, early roles and we had, I mean the stock book cars were ridiculous when you look back it was things like Miuras and 275s and gullwing Mercs and the real what you'd probably what would.

What's proper high end exotic stuff now because in the 70s that was dealer stock, you know and that, that, you know, we, I've got adverts of my dad's and there's, there's a couple where it's, you know, there's a Miura and a, and a Miura SV, you know, choice of two 17,995.

And then at the bottom of the ad, didn't even get a picture.

It's like a DB4 2, you know, it's the cars that are incredibly desirable and rare now weren't always in fashion.

So for dealers in the 70s it was, you know, we're dealing cars now that might, who knows, in 30 years be the million pound cars.

Yeah, we've got no way of doing it.

The thing was back then, some of those cars like the pseudo.

Well, some of the ferraris like the 275s were ultimately racing cars that were road legal.

The problem back then was unless you found a specialist actually keeping them going.

Yeah, I mean we had a, we had a couple of short noses but my dad always had specialist mechanics who knew what they were doing with them.

I mean I think that the thing you've got to remember about those days is There was no lease deals to be had and there was very little finance available on cars like those.

So people that drove the, the kind of high end Italian sports cars or the, or the, the very sort of desirable British stuff, they bought them, they had the money to buy them.

So you didn't see them on the road.

You do now.

It wasn't a case of monthly payments in a balloon.

If you, if you didn't have, if you didn't have 20, 30 grand, you weren't driving a 20, 30 grand car.

You know, it just wasn't as accessible as it is now.

So they were, they were kind of really special to see them out on the road.

And it tended to be rock stars and footballers and actors and actresses and that sort of thing that famously owned them.

Yeah, well they were the people who could afford them really well because I mean there's always been the saying, I conclude it's as relevant today as it was then.

If you can't afford to buy these cars new, you possibly can't afford to run them because it's not unusual to see some beautiful cars.

It wasn't parked at the side of the road because somebody been able to buy it and then couldn't afford to run it.

I would hazard a guess that there is quite a high number of people that have got no idea what they've paid for their cars.

They know what the monthly payment is and they might remember what the bubble is going to be.

But I think people just focus.

Sorry, that's a very sweeping statement.

I think a lot of people focus on the monthly payment and when the bubble's due at the end of the three years, they just chop it in and roll it onto the next car with the next monthly payment.

So I, I don't think some people know what, what the number is that they gave for the car, to be honest with you.

I mean one thing you're doing at the moment, you're restoring a Porsche 928it car.

I think stunning.

And I rather friend of mine is one of the very last ones, one of the last six built for quite a while.

He was away, just said run it.

And I can remember it reminded me of.

I used to drive past a nine to eight point at the side of the road and it sat there for years because the guy who bought it, bought it because he could afford to buy it and then the famous porcelain cylinder head decided it had had enough and he realized he couldn't afford to do anything with it.

So it sat there and rotted away and you look at the 924s.

The 924s were beautiful little cars.

Okay, they should have been technically an Audi Revolkswang, but they were great little cars.

But people bought them who really not be terrible things to say, who really shouldn't be Porsche owners.

And these cars just returned to mother earth.

The rot and the filler in them was beyond credibility.

And I suppose then there's the other thing.

Of course, the Sweeney did more to inflate the value of Mark 2 Jags than anybody else because they kept wrecking them.

A lot of beautiful cars have gone because either A, they got wrecked or B, people who bought them really shouldn't have had them.

Well, I think, I think cars weren't necessarily built to last the 60s.

The way they are now was the great example.

Well, a lot of them had a sort of, you know, 10, 15 year lifespan, but a lot of people bought a car and kept it for 10 or 15 years.

So that would do them.

You know, you'd buy a car and keep it for five, six, seven years in a way that I don't think happens as much anymore.

But you know, you've got to remember back then, you know, some of the steel wasn't great.

Some of them sat outside before they got paint.

Our salty roads did them no good.

People didn't have sort of garages or garage and cars, I don't think in quite the same way.

But I, I think that, you know, we come across it a lot in the classic car world where you'll get a certain mark like a 944 or a silver Shadows.

And the great example where if you get one that's been maintained on a shoestring, you're in trouble.

If you, if you buy one that's been maintained properly, you're in for a treat.

Yeah.

And that is all it literally comes down to.

But the, the Porsches, for me, I mean, we could go on all day about 911s, but just talking about the sort of transactional Porsches, I, my favorites are the first and the last.

So I love a 928.

Yeah.

And say the one I'm doing at the moment is, is my own.

But.

And I love a 968.

Yeah, a 968 Sport.

I think by the very rare of.

Those are you very rarely see them.

Well, I'm very lucky that I've had three.

And one of the sports have been Put back to club sports.

So I've kind of had one of the three, but I think by the time the 968 came out they had completely sorted the transaxle.

Yeah.

Platform and they are a joy.

Very undervalued.

Very undervalued indeed.

Yeah.

How old is the 928 years story?

It's an 82 car.

Yeah.

So it's the 4.7.

Right.

So I had a 5 litre last year, an S4.

And because the, because the S's are lighter than the S4s, the difference in 300cc is negligible.

You don't notice it, to be honest with you.

There's obviously half the valves in the earlier car to go wrong.

They're much easier to maintain, half the values to sort out of the valves when I blow it up.

But no, I think.

Where did you find it and what state was it in?

I.

The reason I bought it, I sold the S4 because that was obviously on, that was stock, but I had sort of slightly fallen in love with it.

I picked it up from a long story, absolute debacle.

I got the train pleased when somebody wanted to buy it.

Well, no, I was, I was pleased.

I was very pleased.

But I got the train down to, to pick it up.

Should have been a two hour train journey.

One change ended up being six changes in five and a half hours.

Everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong.

So by time I collected it at sort of 3 o' clock on a Friday afternoon.

I had a big, long, slow journey back up the M6.

You drive it back?

Yeah, yeah, I drove it back.

I should have been driving it back at 10 in the morning, not at 3 in the afternoon.

And on a Friday that makes a big difference coming up the M6 as you know.

And I thought, you know, this is, this thing's just going to cook itself and, and I'm going to be in a world, you know, in a cloud of steam on the hopefully hard shoulder, if not the smart motorway.

And it just didn't miss a beat all the way back.

It was absolutely.

I smiled all the way home, it was brilliant.

Got to the unit, put it away and thought, no, I'm gonna, I'm taking it home.

So I just, you know, and I ran it for a few days but I got out of it after what was, I think it was a four or five hour journey in the end and I had no backache, no knee ache, no shoulder ache.

And it, you know, there's not a lot of modern cars you can do a journey that, that length in.

And I just fell in love with, I thought, you know what?

I just, I'm fed up of kind of getting out of 9 11s, you know, dripping in sweat and glad to be alive.

And I just felt like I'm definitely sliding into the GT years now.

And they're just so usable.

They are just such great size.

It was a Continental.

They're a GT car.

Yeah.

Long distance.

So there's this, this misconception that they were designed to take over from the 911 as a sports car and they weren't.

They were designed to take over the 911 as a commercially successful car for Porsche.

But they're very, very different, very different cars.

I mean it was the fastest non turbo Porsche you could buy for quite a long time.

You know, they, they, they can show most cars.

911 is a very clean pair of heels.

But again, for some reason they, they, the purists just kicked back against them.

The problem was the 928, though they did try and they raced them at Le Mans.

Never achieved any great success as a race car or rally car.

But it was never theoretically intended to be.

It wasn't, it was asking it to do something it wasn't built for.

And I think it was unfair to the car to expect that of it, to be honest with you.

But I, you know, I can remember when they released them, it was like a spaceship.

I mean the design was just wild.

When you think the 911 essentially hasn't changed silhouette in all these years for Porsche to come out with something so radically different, I mean, every time Porsche does something different, the hardcore kickback like the996 was kind of universally slammed by.

Purists, still do, when they decided to make the 911 water cool.

Because in my opinion it's not.

Well, I love designed to be.

Well, I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

I think the 996 are incredible cars.

I think they're wonderful to drive and, and as much as I love a 993 and I know the values of those are through the roof, I think from a practical point of view to daily.

Yeah.

The996 is the one I pick all day long.

Yeah.

So when you are dealing cars, I mean, do you go out and look for cars to buy in or.

Yeah.

I mean, how do you, how do you, do you still operate as a one fetch term, a used car dealer, where you go and look for.

Yeah, I mean, I'm sort Of I've recently decided to, to semi retire.

But yeah, so there's a few routes.

There's, there's auction and that's online auction houses and physical auctions which are always, you know, you can get lucky on the day.

It's a great way to buy.

Obviously there's the usual advertising routes, you know, we all have to keep an eye on, on ebay, Facebook, all the usual suspects.

But I'm very lucky in that I would probably say 70% of my stock over the past three or four years I've bought because people have offered it to me.

So I'm quite niche in the cars.

Ideal stuff like the classic Americans.

You are very fond.

As I was saying, you're very fond of the Yak.

Yeah, very lucky that I get to deal the cars I like because obviously that's where the business has built from largely.

But so you'll get people that have.

I get quite a lot of cars where people bought cars off me in the past and they'll come back to me.

I try and be fair and quick and easy to deal with and that I think goes a long way in the classic car world.

So I'll get a lot of people where they, they part exchanging cars and to take another one away from me and they'll.

In three or four years when they're ready for something else, they'll do the same again.

And yeah, any car I've sold all buy back.

Yeah.

So it just kind of gives people that easy route.

So you've never had one that you'd be the case.

I'm glad to see the back of that thing.

No, no, I haven't.

And listen, I do, I do sell project cars and there's nothing wrong with selling a car with issues as long as you sell it as a car with issues.

I think that, yeah, I think what.

This is wrong with this.

Yeah.

What I do recognize as a dealer is sometimes you, you'll buy a car at auction or, you know, you buy it off the phone and there's more needs doing than you realize.

Then you have to make the call.

You think, well, if I'm going to have to spend five grand on it to get, get another five grand for it, no point spending the time doing it.

So I will, I, I'm a big fan of selling project cars.

There's a huge market for classic cars that need work doing.

You know, there's a lot of people that enjoy doing that and if I can, you know, rescue something that was destined for the banger track by marketing it to somebody that's going to go on and restore it then I'm very happy with that.

What are you finding at the moment people are looking for?

I think it.

It goes with the usual sort of cycle of, you know, the people that wanted or coveted or loved cars when they were younger, now they want them as a second car.

So Golfs Mark 1 and 2 Golf GTIs, even though the later Mark 2 is the big bumper, 16 valves and eight valves now are doing well.

Peugeot 205 GTIs, now, traditionally, the 1.9s have always been the one to have.

The 1.6s are starting to catch up.

And ironically, I prefer driving the 1.6.

It's lighter, you're going to chuck something around a bend.

I'd rather it was a 1.6.

The 1.9 had an extra oil cooler which made it quite significantly heavier.

But I think there's a few cars that I think are really undervalued that haven't had a moment.

Things like Jaguar XJS's Porsche 928S.

I think they're quite fond of the XJS.

Love an XJS.

The problem.

And again, this goes back to all the cars I love, like 928s shutters and XJS.

There are so many rotten ones around that haven't been looked after, haven't been maintained properly, that when you do find a good one, they really stand out.

But you have to have had a good one to know that that's a good one as well.

Because you're getting something like a shadow or an XJS that's average.

And to a lot of people, they're still quite nice to drive.

Yes.

So I think recognizing a really good one is.

Is an important part of the buying process for me.

I mean, that's one of the things.

I mean, the other ones that tend to rot.

And I. I saw one on a ramp.

It looks stunning.

Until the garage.

It was in the garages.

The guy who owns this is a friend of mine.

Asked him what a DB5 and a DB6, he said.

I said, that looks.

Bonnie said, go and push your fingers through the sills.

Yeah.

By the time it had finished, it stood the owner to seven figure restoration.

Look, anyone can make a car look pretty.

Yeah.

It doesn't mean it's structurally sand and there's lots of things to look at.

I think for me, to use a terrible term, you can actually polish a turd.

You can.

You can respray one as well.

You can do what you can do whatever you want with It.

But I think that the thing in, though, in the 70s, because those cars would have started to rock quite early on in their life.

You know, those won't be recent bodges, you know, it'll have bog and filler and, you know, biscuit tins and all sorts in it from the, from the 70s.

But, you know, and most cars like that, you know, it's not a case of have they had welding, it's a case of to what standard was it done and when was it done and who did it?

You know, we, we fully expect these cars to have had some attention because unless they're extremely low mileage and they've been kept indoors, it's inevitable.

Yeah.

I mean, if you get a car like that, how do you value it?

How do you, do you value it as what it could be worth or what it is?

No, I, I stick to what they're changing hands for at the moment.

You know, don't worry about what people are advertising them for.

Look at what they're actually changing hands for.

And that will give you an idea of the market value.

I mean, look, my, my profits in the buying, not the selling.

You know, as long as I buy them, right, yeah, then I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a couple of quid on them.

But it's the, the, the, the market value is the market value and I can't change that.

What I can change is what I pay for them in the first place.

You know, that's the bit that I can control and that's, that's essentially where any car dealer makes their money, in the buying, not the selling.

I mean, one make or mark that's always attracts attention, especially if somebody makes a bit of money is Ferrari.

I mean, what, what is your experience?

I.

Great Maranello makes, I, I swear Ferraris.

And I think it's for no other reason than my dad did.

After the 275s, the only Ferraris he would have were four hundreds.

Because the problem as a dealer is they're.

And they just tend to ping back on elastic.

You know, I think you have to really think.

You have to really, you have to really know what you're doing technically with Ferraris.

And because we don't, I've just always, we've always done a lot of Lambos.

Oh, yeah.

A lot of Maseratis.

But I think, yeah, Ferraris.

I think like a lot of people, your kind of taste and your preferences and your knowledge of cars tends to come from your dad or whoever you happen to inherit the Love of cars from.

And say after, after the 275s in the 70s and, and you know a couple of really nice 400s in the 80s and 90s.

We just.

Yeah, it's.

They haven't been on our radar.

There's easier ways to make money buying and selling cars than I suppose with classic Ferraris.

It was a TV programs persuaders with Tony Curtis driving the Dino.

Oh it's Magnum PI for me that.

Was the Magnum PI to be fair.

We had a couple of Dinos but you see at that point they were just bread and butter stock.

They weren't particularly exotic or special.

They were just a second hand Ferrari.

Yeah.

At the time.

Have you dealt in any cars that you think I should have kept that because it was a car to turn around at the time and sell them?

Oh yeah, almost all of them.

And you think back to good.

I should have kept that.

Yeah.

I mean the stuff, you know that my dad had when I was young is mind blowing now.

But yeah, even in my time there's been, there's been a few that, you know, not.

There's been a few that I wish I'd not sold because the prices have gone up.

But you're not to know that at the time.

But there's been a couple I wish I'd kept just because I'll.

I'll never own one like it again.

Such else I sold.

It was originally my dad's Rolls Royce Camargue but it had, it had a Harvey Bailey handling pack on which it completely transforms and it's a completely different car and very low mileage.

Beautiful, specific and I.

Not a Rolls Royce.

A lot of people know because I mean very low.

They made many of them.

They were the most expensive production car in the world.

So there were very few people that could afford them.

A lot of them are left hand driving didn't land in the UK anyway.

Unusual looks.

Yeah.

Pinaforena designed again a Marmite car really, really divides opinion but my dad's had three over the years so I've always, I've always loved them.

And again because I've been lucky enough to drive more than one, I recognize that this one, one that we sold about six, seven years ago was a really special one.

Yeah, that's that, that, that's probably the one that got away in terms of one I would have.

I'll never see one again and I should have kept it.

I mean if they.

What are they worth?

Do you know what 35 to 60.

It depends on the car, the spec, the History, the color, how they drive.

Again, a rough one is gonna break your heart and clear your bank account out.

If you think there's no such thing as a cheap car.

Yeah.

You know, well, occasionally there is, but as a general rule of thumb, if it's cheap, it's cheap for a reason.

Yeah.

And what was the other one?

What were the only ones you wish you'd never parted with?

I've had a few shadows of my own, but again, there was one in particular that was fabulous and I wish I'd never sold it and I'm on first refusal for it, but yeah, and like I say, that's one again.

I don't.

I think I've really struggled to find another shadow that just drives as well as that one, you know, it was just an exceptional car and, and I should have kept that.

I mean, one car I grew up with or two cars I grew up with.

I was fortunate enough.

Well, I can't follow the couple of clouds.

Which ones?

1, 2 or 3?

2 and threes.

And cobra.

Ac.

Proper ac cobra.

That's why when people said to me, now I've got an AC Cobra, I look at it and say, no, Jan. And I tend to have upset quite a lot of people by talking about that, but I can just.

And a very early range roll with the first Range Rovers.

Now, I love the early Range Rovers.

I detest the modern Range Rover.

I don't like the looks of the latest one.

I have a, I have a love hate relationship with Range Rover.

I mean, the one thing is you tend to find that the dealer will have it more than you will love it.

Yes.

Whereas when I grew up, the other 3.5 Rover V8 on carburetors, you knew full well the tailgate would probably fall off at some point in time.

But they did what they were meant to do.

It was a Land Rover that went off road and had plenty of power.

Unlike now, most owners are terrified if they see a bit of gravel.

I think the, the, as with many early cars, compared to modern cars, you could actually spanner them relatively easily, you know, and if you, if it conked out on you, you could likely get it going again.

And if it wasn't running right, you could.

If you couldn't fettle it, your mechanic certainly could.

Whereas now you have to drop the engine out of them to do some of the simplest.

Well, I think the other thing is you should drop the engine out on some of them to actually replace a very cheap part.

But it's cost you thousands to replace that.

Cheap port.

And this doesn't make any sense to me.

It's an interesting engineering question, but it's beyond my capabilities.

I don't really understand modern engines, sealed units.

I'm useless.

Do you ever get people come to you to buy a car, especially a project car that you would ever advise, maybe this isn't the one for you?

Oh, I do that all the time.

All right.

But a big part of my job is putting square pegs in square holes.

You know, I want people to enjoy the car they buy from me, tell everybody they've had a wonderful experience, enjoy the car.

Yeah.

Offer it me back when they finished and come and buy more off me.

You know, it's word of mouth and reputation is.

Is your biggest strength as a classic car dealer.

And yet, no, this, you know, especially with the American stuff, you know, the first question is always, have you had one before?

Because lots of people like the look of a car and the reality of driving it is very different.

And lots of people don't particularly like the look of a car but fall in love with driving it.

So I think you have.

I mean, I've driven big American cars and they are very 40 and bargy.

Some are, yeah, some are, but I.

Mean, you've got to remember where they were designed to be driven.

You know, it's horses for courses and it depends what you're looking for.

But I mean, just a perfect example, a chap came out to see a 968 and he was lovely.

He'd inherited some money.

It was a car he'd always wanted it been keeping an eye on the advert and it was still available.

So he came out pretty sure he was having it, you know, and we went around the block and I could just tell he was disappointed.

He wasn't enjoying it.

He couldn't get comfy.

And I didn't know the 968.

So this is.

This is not great for audio, but you kind of.

Your left arm is sort of quite high almost on.

On a center console and you've got a very short gear stick that you almost don't.

You can almost have your arm flat on it to change gears.

And it's a very sort of close gate H gearbox.

I love them, but I understand they're not for everyone if you're used to a modern car.

And I had a couple of 996s, had a C4s and a C2 at the same time.

And I said, look, I.

Humor me.

Take the C4s around the block.

Yeah.

And tell me what you think.

And he came back and he said I was about.

Nearly made a really big mistake.

I want a996C4S.

Yeah.

So I think if you'd taken that 968 home, you would have been really disappointed.

And, and there's nothing worse than buying a car.

It's like never meet heroes.

Buying a car you've always hankered after, but the reality is you don't enjoy driving it.

So I think it's really, really important.

You know, people buy cars off me that haven't driven left hand drives before.

And it's sort of make sure you're comfy with it before you buy it off me because I want, I want you to, I want you to enjoy.

I would never took somebody up with a car that I thought wasn't right for them because I've always got other customers for the cars.

I don't need to do that.

I mean, one car.

But a friend of mine fell in love with from being a young boy to the day when he went to look at one and test drive one.

And he walked out the showroom in tears because he realized he should have always remained upholstered.

Never meet your hair, as it happens, a lot.

So Lamborghini Countach.

Yeah.

Just like driving a letterbox.

It's awful.

You can't get in them.

Well, I can because I'm 5 foot 3, but I can't see where I'm going.

You can't get out of them, you can't see where you're going.

I've got a few cars.

A great example for me is a Carmen gear.

I'd rather be outside, I'd rather be outside looking at it than inside driving it.

And I think that.

And again, lots of people will think, oh, I've always wanted a Carmen gear.

I'll buy one at auction.

And you're either going to fall in love with driving or you're going to hate it.

Nothing in between.

But I do think that making sure that the car is, especially if it's, you know, it's quite an emotional purchase.

A classic car, it's very often a hobby car or it's realizing a dream or it's nostalgia, it's going back to a time that you remember very fondly.

And I think it's really important that it makes you happy.

So it's rose tinted glasses.

But you realize at times your glasses actually work Rose tinted.

And sometimes it goes the other way.

You know, I'll have people looking at the car and say, well, do you want to take that around the block?

Be like, no, I'm not interested.

And again, it's like humor.

I think you might enjoy it.

And they'll come back and they're like, bloody hell, I love that.

So I do, I do think it's kind of, it's recognizing, you know, these cars, these hobby cars and sort of investment cars.

They've got to make you smile.

Otherwise there's just no point having them unless it is purely for investment.

There's no point having them.

I mean, you talk about investment, are there any cars out there that are investments?

Because it's like anything.

Yeah, absolutely.

I remember the day when one guy as investment bought three Ferraris.

I can't remember which ones they were, he bought.

And then the bubble burst and instead of selling each one at a vast profit, he had to sell all three of them for less than the price of one had become.

Yeah, if he'd hung onto them till now, they'd be back up there.

It's all, it's all about cycles and timing.

I think, you know, the market will always.

We have ascending markets, descending markets and we have plateau time and it's, and it's.

And different cars are at different parts of that scale at different times.

You know, sometimes the market sort of softens as a whole, as we've seen recently.

And sometimes, you know, some cars in particular will drop off a cliff while others maintain.

Are you able in your experience, user experience, to work it out a little bit better than the average, Average Joe?

I don't think so now.

I mean, look, I think the E type prices went nuts and we were.

All thinking, we used to pay 100 grand for a bucket of alts and.

A cardboard box and the rest.

And we could all, we were, you know, we were all thinking this isn't sustainable.

So.

And, and they have consequently dropped off a cliff.

And you know, if you've ever wanted knee type, now's the time.

They are the best value I've known them in my lifetime, to be honest with you.

And they will start to come back around again.

So, you know, we do recognize that.

Somebody asked, depends which one.

I mean, I've always been told if you want an E type that really will retain its desirability.

Series one, especially a flat floor.

Well, a flat floor is always going to be highly collectible for me personally to drive and to use and to have my money in somewhere where I'm comfortable.

Like a series two, a nice 4.2, something like that.

I think the series one had some problems, you know, least of all cooling.

I think the Series three is kind of the, the big, the American market.

Well, they wrote a song for the Series three.

Ain't no stopping us now because after about three dabs on the brake pedal.

They cut themselves a bit.

You just basically hope it'll come to a halt.

Well, I think the Series two for me is a sweet spot.

I think the cooling system cope, the brakes cope, the engine's lovely, they drive really nice and they, they're, they're kind of a little bit smaller than the Series Threes, but again, it's horses for courses.

And there's some cars now that we look at, you know, like the, the Astons, the, the baby Vantage, the V8, they're cracking value for money.

And if you can find a really nice low mileage, good service history, example with a good spec, with a manual gearbox.

Past guest, a friend of yours, which is why you always sat here, Mike Smith, we were talking about Astons and he said, he said the little V8.

That, yeah, the cracking value for me.

He said, is the one to own, he said the real.

He said the only problem with the other Astons, lot of them, he said the bank account, you need to go with them.

He said they're not badly priced.

Until you get it into your.

To your mechanic and then you'll start crying.

I think the little V8 is, it is great.

You can chuck them around, they're great to drive.

They're not gonna break your heart or the bank when it comes to servicing them.

And for the money, you can pick them up for now.

Now, they are a really sensible either daily driver.

Yeah.

Or a second car.

And if you can find one, as I say, with low mileage, with a good spec, with a manual gearbox, great service history, you're not going to lose any money.

And I think they're ones that we'll all wish we bought in 20 years.

Now, the one thing you're doing is you're becoming competition to me.

Complimentary.

Complimentary is not competitive.

I don't think.

You're younger than I am.

Yeah, I've got the experience, I will give you that.

You're starting your own podcast on all this, aren't you?

You?

Yes, I have done.

We started it.

It went live a couple of weeks ago.

What brought this upon you?

Well, as, as I mentioned earlier, I'm sort of semi retiring from, from dealing and, and obviously having Taken over from my dad.

And the business has been going a very long time.

I've become very nostalgic about the.

How lucky I was to grow up.

You know, like going to school in Amura, I now realize isn't normal.

Wasn't normal, by the way, just putting in a great friend of mine, Christian Ireland, who was the daughter of racy driver and F1 driver in this island.

He used to come and pick her up at school in GT voices and things like that.

And she used to find it staggeringly embarrassing.

Oh, no, I loved it.

But you see, I always was in love with the cars from day one.

So I just loved it.

The theater, the noise, the smell.

And it's.

And that's still.

I think that's still a really kind of.

That evokes incredible memories and nostalgia and I think it's really exciting.

You know, there's nothing.

There's nothing that makes you smile like you turn the key and the big V8 rules to life.

You know, there's something really exciting about that.

But I summit else is also car you turn on.

You wait for the fuel.

Oh, well, like a Range Rover.

You wait for the dashboard to light up like a Christmas trick.

Well, yeah, no, there's a lot of cars where we do.

We do have to let the fuel pump tick for a couple of seconds before we fire them up.

But I am, I. I think that it.

I've just got very nostalgic and I thought all these wonderful memories of the.

The motor trade and motoring in the sort of 70s and 80s and 90s, once my generation's gone, the kids that grew up then.

Yeah, the memories are all gone.

So I just want to make sure that I. I recall, you know, so it's.

It's very much about talking about the old days and the new days, obviously the motoring.

Motor trade and motoring as well.

But there's some big characters that were around then and still are, and I think it's just giving them a platform to tell their.

Tell their story.

Back then, a lot of the dealers were heavily involved in racing as well.

I mean, it was.

It was like hand in hand for them.

Well, I think in Manchester they were heavily involved in other stuff.

And I know there was a.

There was a big overlap with things like nightclubs and boxing and hotels and, you know, it was quite a colorful, colorful time and a lot of very colorful characters.

So it's like I say, once, once my generation, the kids that grew up then have gone, all these memories and access to them are gone.

Forever.

And I think they're worth saving.

You know, I think they're worth, I.

Mean, what's your view on this buy online?

I mean, I would never buy a.

Car, I love it.

But I have never sat in, seen or driven.

I've, I've, I've.

I've just sort of started an online auction for Mana Park Classics and the auction house that I jobs sort of been part of from the start.

I'm a, I'm a big fan of online auctions and I'll tell you why.

I think they are considerably less risky than, than you might think.

So if you go to a drive to go and look at a car from a private dealer, private, you know, private seller, and you can take it around the block and you can go through the file and you can sort of have a look under the bonnet and you've got a reasonable level of knowledge.

So you know, you're probably going to spot if it's, you know, knocking its bollocks off sort of thing.

But they've been cracking eggs into its radiation.

Yeah, I know you can, you know, you.

And, and they'll be like, oh, well, I've got someone else coming at 2 and you've kind of got to make your mind up.

Yeah, you know, you've got to make your mind up and that's, that's the end of that.

And if you get it home and the head gasket does go rather tough, you're on your own, there's nothing you can do about it.

And that's, that's a risk.

Yeah.

Whereas if you buy from an online auction house and this, you know, some of the auction houses, like Mana park for example, they've got viewing, so you can actually go and see the cars and start them and, and then you can take your mechanic if you want and you can go home and you can do your research and you can decide what you'll pay for it, then you can bid online on the day of the auction.

So for a lot of it, it actually is a, it, it reduces risk.

You know, I think if anybody's particularly risk averse, I think buying private is probably the scariest way to do it.

You know, rather than the misconception that buying through an auction house is, is scary, I think buying private is pretty scary these days.

But I think as well that we are tied in, in terms of legislation to describing them properly.

Yeah.

So I think if, particularly as a dealer, if you're putting a car in an auction, online or otherwise, you are still obliged to report Any known faults.

And you know, as I say, there's nothing wrong selling a car with issues as long as you sell it as a car with issues.

But I think that the.

If you know what you're buying.

So if it's a car you've had before, you know you're going to like driving it.

It's.

It's just had a main dealer service.

It's just had an mother.

Probably safer doing that than buying off someone's driveway.

Yeah.

If I'm honest.

Because if you get it home and you say, well look, actually I've just been through the book, it's not had a.

Just had a main dealer service at all.

You know, it's had the plugs cleaned by his next door neighbor.

You know, it's got a.

No stamps.

Got recourse.

Yeah.

You know, you have got recourse because they do have to be described properly.

But no, I think buying online is brilliant.

I buy a lot online and I sell a lot online and I think geographically as well, it kind of opens up a whole world of.

You can buy a car from the other end of the country.

Yeah.

And you don't have.

You can go and see if you want, but you don't have to go and see it.

And you can get it transported also.

That's the beauty.

As well as like social media and iPhones with video cameras and everything else.

Yeah.

Do us a quick walk around it, will you?

Yeah.

So I mean in the olden days it'd be like Thursday morning with the auto trader.

Yeah.

There's something you fancy.

You'd have to be quick.

Yeah.

You have to get there first and you'd have to have readies to pay for it or at least a deposit, otherwise it was gone.

Whereas now you can sort of, you can phone them and say, I do walk around video.

I do.

Well, you follow me on social media.

I do driving videos and walk around videos for, for all the cars and, and you know, we do video viewings.

If somebody wants to do a video call and you go left a bit, go right a bit.

Let me see this.

We can do.

And it's all about reducing risk.

I think that that's the main thing when you're.

And it's about minimizing the risk to, to the buyer.

But yeah, I think the only thing you can't do obviously is drive them.

Yeah.

So.

And what you don't want to do is, you know, again we talked about this a few minutes ago, buy a car you've always wanted but you've never driven because if you get it and you don't like driving it, well, you're.

Still weird to any.

We just re advertise it.

Yeah, yeah.

The thing, the great thing about an online auction is that whatever you buy it for, somebody was only one bid behind you.

Yeah.

So that's your market value.

Value.

Yeah.

So if you want to resell it, you know, there's at least one person out there that would have given a couple of hundred quid less.

Yeah.

Or 500 quid less or whatever the bidding increments are.

So I think that buying on auction is a great leveler in terms of valuations as well.

Quick prediction.

What's going to be the next car to all, next classic car to all.

Do you know what?

There is no answer to that because it depends what you want.

Depends what you want it for, what you want to use it for, how you want to maintain it.

There's lots of cars for me again, I think extra JSS 928s, BMW E30s.

Yeah.

Especially you can get one nice one with a manual gearbox cab, you know, fixed head or drop head.

I think those baby Aston, severe Astons, slightly as a modern classic, are a great one to look out for.

And you know, if you want something that's going to be easy to spanner, fairly unproblematic and you can have an absolute blast driving.

And don't forget the show scene.

The shows in the neat scenes.

Fabulous.

Now, something like a.

A Mark 2 Golf GTI or a Peugeot 205.

And then the prices are creeping up now, but they, you know, for 10 grand you can have a really, a really nice usable hobby car.

And like I say, you know, it opens up a whole social scene for you.

You know, the, the meets that we go to are brilliant.

And it's not just these sort of big car meets at Tatton park, it's things like, you know, local pub to me, does one every other Thursday all summer and another pub does one every Tuesday all summer.

And it kind of opens up a whole world of, you know, the interesting.

What are the oldies?

That's not a classic.

Actually.

It is.

It's a really interesting question.

I think there's always a crossover between classic and collectible as well.

So things like a Rover Metro.

Yeah.

You know, low mileage, lovely condition Rover Metro.

I think they're lovely.

I think It's a real piece of motoring nostalgia.

And I think that they are collectible and they are classic cars.

Cars and even things like low mileage now like Golf VR6s.

Yes.

You know, if you get a really nice, clean low mileage VR6, which a lot of people will balk at as not being a classic.

Well, I think they are, yeah, I think they're collectible now and I do think they're classic cars.

But I think anything for me that would be collectible for whatever reason, whether it's low production runs, low mileage, Even if it's 15 or 20 years old, I would still think that would be very welcome at a classic car of me or.

So if somebody wants to watch you on social media, how do they get get you?

If you search for the old car lady on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok and YouTube and the podcast is called Wheels and deals with a squiggly and not A and D. And that's wherever you get your podcasts.

Yeah.

So, and when does it come out?

When?

Every Friday.

Every Friday?

Yeah.

So there's a few to listen.

There's a bank, I think there's five or six on now if you want to go and have a listen.

And we, we put a new one every Friday morning.

And it's all audio on video?

No, it's on the podcast platform.

So Spotify and Apple podcasts, it's all audio.

But if you follow me on social media, you'll see all the videos as well.

Sam Grange Bailey, it's been a pleasure chatting to you.

Thank you very much for joining me on the back seat driver.

Thank you very much, Mark.

It's been a pleasure.