Jovanni and Keagan delve into a wide-ranging discussion on the ongoing crisis in Gaza. They dissect the 20-point Gaza peace plan proposed by President Trump and highlight the perceived biases against Palestinians, contrasting the international community's reactions and the lack of meaningful action by states. The conversation covers historical context, the contradictions of international law enforcement, the role of various countries, and potential future implications of the proposed peace plan.

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Fortress On A Hill is hosted, written, and produced by Chris ‘Henri’ Henrikson, Danny Sjursen, Keagan Miller, Jovanni Reyes, Shiloh Emelein, Monisha Rios, and MIke James. https://bit.ly/3yeBaB9

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Note: The views expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts alone, expressed in an unofficial capacity, and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Department of the Army, Department of Defense, or the U.S. government.

this is Fortress On A Hill, with Henri, Danny, Kaygan, Jo

vonni, Shiloh, Monisha , and Mike

Welcome back to another episode of Fortress On A Hill.

A podcast about US foreign policy, anti imperialism,

skepticism in American way of war.

I'm Jovanni, your host.

I'm here with Kagan.

Kagan, how you doing today?

How are you?

I am doing well.

Trying to come back to recording after a long time

It's been a long time since we've done anything.

at one point we record at least once a week I know a lot of

things going on, in people's lives things happening, in the world.

so rapid, not only in the world, but also.

Domestically, internationally, everything just happened so fast.

right now we're nine months into the Trump era.

It seems like an eternity.

It seems like we've been here for a long time.

like we're in quicksand here, we're just moving and nothing is happening.

more.

We move the more we sink,

I feel like I have to laugh to not cry these days.

we've only been nine months, right?

Yeah.

It's been nine months, but it feels like forever.

so anyway, I wanted, us to come on, we've been following

this for the last two years.

the, the genocide, the Holocaust and Gaza.

and we've all been frustrated by the old contradictions the lack

of states not doing anything.

As is Holocaust continued and pretty much seeing how everything plays out, including

when international, bodies like the iccs and ICJs, condemn, and issue arrest

warrants, to the people conducting this genocide, the Israeli, high office people,

tend to travel like it was nothing, they brush it off like it was nothing.

We've seen how international laws is being crumbled, and not only that,

it's how all these Western states, bent over backwards to, show their support.

To the, Zionist state of Israel and pretty much, tramp all over

international laws and, human right laws, Geneva, conventions, everything.

All these institutions that they themselves have been, created.

They themselves been pushing onto everyone, and they themselves have

been, intervening in other countries, for the past, 20 something years, 30

years, 40 years, the name of upholding, the rule of law and everything.

But when it comes to Israel, it seems like, they can act with impunity.

They're above the law, the law does not apply to them, it applies to

everybody else, particularly in the global south but not to them.

Yeah, we just saw over the last 30 years we created these ways of

making war where we could stay there forever and not have to do anything

other than just continue to grind the people down over and over again.

And, now that war is coming home.

It's being waged abroad still, but it's coming home.

I'm really sad about everything that's been taking place over the last two years.

it makes me really sad that the governments of the world have

not stepped up in any meaningful way to really help the people.

It's all been grassroots led movements trying to do something

we just had two Portlanders or Oregonians, come in last night from

the Flotilla, which is really cool.

I hope that this peace plan at least leads to something that, means

something that it's at least a good starting point to make sure that

we can have an end to this war.

But I don't know if that's actually gonna happen.

I was reading today that it's similar to a peace plan with Hezbollah,

where, since last year what was supposed to be enacted was supposed to be a

cease five between Hezbollah, and.

The IOF, right?

It's been a one sided ceasefire, because, Israel hasn't stopped bombing Lebanon,

nobody's acknowledged how many times they bombed Syria.

people forgot that they've bombed the crap out of Syria multiple times.

They were

occupy weekly

What they were doing, on a weekly basis, they were bombing

Syria for the last 10 years and they've been continuing bombing now.

Yeah.

but still, they occupied a bunch of southern Syria, basically

up to Damascus, and that's

More territory than the occupying Gaza.

Yes.

occupy more territories in Syria than the size of Gaza.

Yeah.

we're in a really interesting moment in time.

But it's nice to see that Israel's becoming a global fariah.

If not, they already are.

And more people are willing to step up and say, Hey, we don't

agree with what you're doing here.

But it sucks that it's taken this long.

It sucks that it's taken us two years to get to this point where the

governments are finally like, maybe we need to do something about this.

have you heard the Irish president's, idea?

what is that?

Hi.

his idea, which is shared by some other people is the idea of the

general assembly of the UN can go around a security veto if they have a

two thirds majority in the assembly.

they could create an armed force of people to go in and be peacekeepers

from countries around the world.

they override the security veto because it's a two thirds

vote in the general assembly.

That was similar to what the Columbia president said at the UN as well.

he was calling for international force to intervene in Israel and

Palestine, to stop the genocide.

the security Council is pretty much, held hostage by the United States.

Yeah.

security Council has five permanent, states, which is, France, uk,

United States, China and Russia.

one veto could be a showstopper before everything, and every time Israel

comes up, United States, exercise veto power, and it becomes a showstopper,

That's why I like this idea.

it's a way to get around it.

At least, maybe.

Yeah.

going back to what you were saying about states not doing

anything in a meaningful way.

if you recall when the assault started, right?

as soon as October 7th started, the, Israeli, response to October 7th,

which happened, I think two days later.

United States moved in, military assets to the sea.

sent in, aircraft carriers and, pretty much sent, a group, right?

The Navy.

Strike group.

A strike group.

Call it Strike Group into the sea, into the area.

Pretty much what it was a threat for no country to intervene,

and what was about to happen.

it was mostly a threat to Iran and Iraq, any other country that could

have intervened or possessed, any significant, restraint on Israel,

including his own allies, including Egypt.

Egypt has the largest Arab army in the region.

that threat was also meant for them as well.

to allow Israel to act with impunity.

going back about states not doing anything, the only state that's actively

has done something, it has been upholding the, convention, against, genocide in

1948 with states that in all states it's a duty of all states to prevent genocide.

And the course of a genocide happening is the duty of all

states to intervene to stop it.

the only state that has done so, in a meaningful And direct way has been Yemen

and they've paid for it they've been bombed, for upholding international law,

going back to the convention, against genocide of 1948, Iran has assisted,

indirectly by supplying weapons And also Syria was intervening, indirectly by

being a of weapons to, reach, fighters, sistant fighters in the they were part

of what I called the of resistance.

and you saw what happened, with Iran for example, they did a strike, a surprise

attack on Iran While they were doing negotiation, With the United States.

Israel did a surprise attack.

they try to do a decapitation, take off the leadership of Iran.

They conducted a dirty war against Syria.

they overthrew, the SAI government in Syria, and put in a former

Al-Qaeda commander as a president.

of Syria, who wants to bend over backwards to appease Israel and the United States.

I think that it'll be interesting to see what happens

with Yemen in the future.

now that things are deescalating or hopefully deescalating, they've

been in such a precarious situation for so long with their civil war

and everything that has happened to them for the last 30 years.

Yeah.

right before this was happening, They were being attacked by a Saudi led, coalition.

they were using hunger as a weapon.

just like Israel's using hunger as a weapon against, Gaza, they were using

hunger as a weapon against the Yemenis,

Yeah.

That war started in 2015.

That was not a good time.

let's look at these.

you wanna look at the plan?

Let's look at this plan real quick.

I'll read 'em out loud and you tell me your thoughts.

I got two documents open.

I got one from the B, C and I got one from my Ja.

Which one you want me to read?

I have the BVC one open

Okay, let's look at the BC one This was, Polish one day ago.

It says US President Donald Trump says Israel and Hamas have sign off on the

first phase of his 20 point gossip peace plan in a major step towards the

permanent end to two years of work.

He unveiled a plan at the White House on 29th September,

alongside Prime Minister Benjamin.

Israel accepted terms, right?

There was no, passing present, when this was in Vail.

On October, on three, October, Hama said it agreed to return all 48

remaining hostages, quote unquote hostages, being held in ga in exchange

for Palestinian prisoners and Israeli jails and Gaza detainees, and to the

idea of handing over the governance of Gaza to Palestinian technocrat.

People don't know that there are thousands of Palestinians

lingering and, and Israeli jails.

Yeah.

Even before October 7th, there were thousands there.

There were even small children that get picked up, and taken into

these detention, centers, they call 'em administrative detention,

There are thousands of them.

But the group did not mention other elements.

Most notably the requirement that it disarmed.

Once the ceasefire takes effect.

Us Qatari, Egyptian, and Turkish mids will attempt to get both sides

to agree what Trump called a strong, durable and everlasting piece.

Here is a full text of the president's plan as provided

by the White House, right?

Number one Gaza will be the radicalized terror free zone that does not

post a threat to its neighbors.

That's the first one.

Thoughts.

right away they're saying, we're not gonna have any, fighting

or any armed resistance whatsoever.

Yeah.

when they use the term de radicalized terror free zone, which according to

international law, the Palestinians the right to liberate themselves by

any means, accessible to them, right?

Which include armed conflict, That doesn't grind in international law,

doesn't grind in the UN charter, right?

They have the right, to free themselves From oppression.

They have a right to free themselves from an alien occupying force,

by any means available to them including, armed resistance, right?

my take is that the radicalized terror free zone is pretty

much criminalizing right?

of resistance and self-determination, right?

Gaza will be reemployed for the benefits of the people who

have suffered more than enough.

Redeveloped for the benefit of the people of Gaza.

One thing didn't like Trump, plan last year of making Gaza like some type of

French Riviera with casinos and whatnot.

that's what he's saying

At the same time, moving, the populace, Egypt and Jordan.

Egypt.

Huh?

Egypt and Jordan.

Number three.

If both sides agree to this proposal, the war will immediately end.

Israeli forces will withdraw to agreed upon line to

prepare for a hostage release.

During this time, all military operations, including bombardment will

be suspended, and battle lines will remain frozen until conditions are

met for the complete stage withdrawal.

This is the part I was running into issues with when I was reading it,

seeing how, they're saying there's gonna be some staged withdrawal, but they never,

outlined what those stages are and there's no timeline for them to be completed.

So then Yahoo can basically be like.

there's no timeline.

So gotta start bombing again.

Yeah.

You saw that map, There's a yellow line, red line, blue line,

I saw that

Yeah,

but there's no timeline for when those second stages are gonna happen.

Second to third stages.

the onus of this peace plan is put upon, the Resistance

Coalition in Gaza and elsewhere.

I say resistant coalition they keep saying Hama.

Hama is not the only, faction that is fighting.

it is a coalition of different factions that came under, the umbrella.

they call themselves a resistance committee or something like that.

Hama is the largest entity of them all.

and they're leading.

But there, is a coalition of different resistance sectors, and

more were created because of this war.

neighborhood brigades were created while this war was going on.

But you're right, there's no timeline.

There's no pressure on Israel whatsoever, to do anything, pretty much what Israel

could not achieve the ground because Israel on the ground could defeat,

the Hamas Coalition, the battles.

were never clear winnings, by the Israeli, forces.

I've been tracking it a good source to track the battle field

was John Elmer from, He will give his, analysis and show the videos

of what's happening on the ground.

on the battle front, Israel hasn't been successful.

the goal two years ago, was to destroy Hamas and all the infrastructure

They militarized the whole zone, which two years into the game they

haven't been able to do keep in mind that Gaza is about a strip about

10 mile long and five mile wide.

And the entire Israeli force, IDF, Which had to do recruitment.

They even, call in people, the Zeta Jews that don't serve in the military.

they took out their, privilege of not serving the military.

'Cause they had to do a draft to get people in because, the whole mighty

Israeli army cannot defeat ragtag, gorilla forces on the ground, and they

had Marketa tanks, which is supposed to be

The undefeated tank.

It was supposed to be the wonder weapon.

And they were just getting destroyed left and right,

I saw the videos.

So I've been in the tank, I've been in the M1 when I was in the

Army, I was in a Tampa, battalion.

as a medic, was with the Abraham M1, attacks, with the first Gulf War.

they were considered invincible.

they participated in the first Gulf War, the only, losses of the Abraham, M1 was

due to friendly fires pretty much, right?

Because the, taxi, that the Iraqis had, couldn't penetrate them.

But when the invasion and occupation of Iraq happened, the insurgents

were just blowing him up, and a similar thing was happening here.

Merkava, yeah.

The Merc tank was supposed to be like this.

it's a heavier tank than the M1 tank.

more invulnerable And they were being destroyed.

I was watching a video today.

an Israeli fighter, placed a bomb in the turret and just blew it up.

hand carried it to beneath the turret, and it just blew it up.

so they're getting destroyed, right?

on the ground, they haven't been successful.

They've been, trying to win politically.

I think this is what we're seeing right now.

trying to win politically, not on their own device either.

they relied on the United States to do couldn't do it on their own.

Yeah.

Where are we at?

four.

We're number four.

Yeah.

Within 72 hours of Israeli publicly accepting disagreement,

all hostages alive will be returned.

That's straightforward,

a lot of those captives that the Palestinian had were killed by Israel.

Yeah.

through the march

strikes

Once all hostages are released, Israel will release 250 life sentence

prisoners plus 1,700 who were detained after seven October, 2023, including

all children detained in that context, for every Israeli hostage whose

remains are released, Israel will release the remains of 15 deceased.

I like that.

people getting released is always a good thing.

the thing I can take is that they're not talking about

releasing any of the thousands of people before a total seven.

What about them?

I read today that they have the bodies of, the

Cassam brigade Commander, Swar.

And they're not releasing his body either.

and there's also a prisoner.

He's been in prisons for I think it's the eighties.

And he's very popular among Palestinians.

He's considered the person who can lead and organize and bring together

all the Palestinian factions, and not releasing him either.

So yeah.

Okay.

Oh, we at six?

Yeah.

Once all hostages are returned, Hamas members who commit to

peaceful coexistence and decommission their weapons will be given amnesty.

Members of Hamas who wish to leave Gaza will be provided safe

passage to receiving countries

I'm concerned that.

they give up their weapons, they get amnesty.

where do they go?

What do they do with themselves?

What happens to their family members?

And also how will Palestinians benefit, by disarming themselves

when they still have to live under the hostility of Israel, They're

still vulnerable to Israeli violence,

many people would be willing to give up when there's no right to safety.

Exactly.

and given that Israel connect with impunity and no one

will hold him accountable.

what guarantee are you giving?

Yeah.

The coalition that is ruling Israel right now, which is led by ment.

they flat out say that there will be no Palestinian states.

you have that unholy alliance he made with smoke church and vere, the

extreme right ring of his party to now.

That's the only reason his government is afloat and he's just desperately

trying to hang on to power at this point.

Yep.

That's what scares me about this whole thing.

upon acceptance of this agreement.

Full aid will be immediately sent into Gaza Strip.

quantities will be consistent with what was included in a 19 January,

2025 agreement regarding humanitarian aid, including rehabilitation of

infrastructure, water, electricity, sewage, rehabilitation of hospitals

and bakeries, and entry of necessary equipment to remove rubble and open roads.

That's pretty good.

I don't know what that agreement was.

Yeah.

If they can make it happen, I know it's gonna cost them like

$55 billion to rebuild everything.

I know that agreement, every other agreement before that,

that's one of the conditions that Israeli, resistance always made, the

release of aid, The context here is what the underlying context here is.

why isn't aid entry in our first place where, you know, where they're

supposed to, remember we had a, the nurse that came on talked to us and

she's been working, Anna name was right.

And she's been working on the ground in Gaza.

before that she was working in combat zones in other places.

She worked in Iraq and Ukraine, what's unique about this combat zone is that

in other places, Ukraine and Iraq, they were able to deliver aid unrestricted.

But here, from jump, is really controlled what interests and comes out of, Gaza,

They're not supposed to use aid as a weapon, that's part of, the laws of war.

you're not supposed to do collective punishment.

You're not supposed to, punish a whole population.

use hunger as a weapon to bring your enemy to submission,

War crimes.

that's what jumps out to me.

why wasn't aid able to go in, and then the organization that was in charge

of providing aid un r which is a un institution, they were sent packing, they

were sent, and an Israeli called them, terror Sympathize for doing their job.

Yeah.

You remember that?

Yeah.

Entry of distribution of aid in the GA strip will proceed

without interference from the two parties through the United Nations

and its agency and the Red Crescent.

In addition to other international institutions not associated with either

party the Rafa crossing in both directions will be subject to the same mechanism

implemented under 19 January, 2025.

That's interesting 'cause you were just bringing up RA and it's

like they're gonna let the UN come in but not ra so who is it gonna be?

That organization that was created with a bunch

of, contractors and whatnot.

Remember?

the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation.

Yeah.

The ones who are providing aid right now,

they're corralling people like cows.

Creating these quote unquote safety corridors.

Gaza will be governed under the temporary transitional governments

of a technocrat apolitical Palestinian committee responsible for delivering the

day-to-day running of public service and municipalities for the people of Gaza.

This committee will be made up of qualified Palestinians and international

experts with oversight and supervision by a new international transitional

body, the Board of Peace, which would be headed and chaired by President Donald J.

Trump.

This body will set the framework and handle the funding for the redevelopment

of GA until such time as the Palestinian Authority, as completed its reform program

as outlined in various proposal, including President Trump's peace plan in 2020 in

a Saudi French proposal and can securely and effectively take back control of Gaza.

This body will call on best international standards to create

modern and efficient governance that serves the people of Gaza and it's

conductive to attract an investment.

Oh, technocratic apolitical Palestinian committee.

What does that even mean?

What Palestinian technocrats are there?

I'm sure there's probably some, but what do they mean?

There's so many words that are just so up for interpretation.

the board be headed by President Donald J.

Trump and former Prime minister Tony Blair, right?

The guy who helped give us a rack.

So this reconstruction's gonna take years, right?

Yeah.

and here Trump assigns himself as the head.

the Board of Peace.

So is this transactional?

So he would be the president, he'll be the executive, office of the United States,

the president of the United States.

At the same time a board, a peace of an international body.

So what happens if after, in three years of the next election,

let's say we have a new president.

Is he still gonna be part of the board or what?

Yeah.

and you have this Palestinian authority.

one of the things that discredited them, after the Oslo accord, was

the fact that they did agree to arm.

They agreed to this arm pretty much in the westbound.

So that's why.

Israelis have had their way in the West Bank because the Palestinians in

the West Bank are largely disarmed.

those images that you see of people throwing rocks and sling

rocks and stuff like that.

a Palestinian, Israeli tanks.

because they were largely disarmed after the Oslo agreement.

and that pretty much allowed Israel to continue putting settlements bulldozing

people's homes and moving in more settlers

They didn't do nothing for them.

and all this under the watchful eyes of the Palestinian authorities.

So they were largely, discredited because of that.

Then they became, finance by the United States, this PA authority.

And what they did, they ended up just being Israel's.

police force, to police Palestinians.

That's pretty much what they became, after the agreement, to police

Palestinians in the West Bank.

And, they are armed.

they're lightly armed, and they use their arms against Palestinians, not Israelis.

and where have they been for the last two years?

where's their voice?

they haven't said anything.

they condemn her mask.

Ugh.

Yeah.

so these bodies largely discreted, they're not trusted by the Palestinian people.

They're not liked by the Palestinian people.

They lost the election against Ammas in 2005, 2006, Overwhelmingly lost to Ammas.

Yeah.

So not popular.

They're not popular at all.

and Israel want them to further.

To further reform.

So I don't know what more reform they want?

But they're the one who are recognized by the United Nation as the voice

of the Palestinian people or the leadership of the Palestinian people.

Mahamas, what's it, Mabu, Abba, that's his name.

yeah.

President of the Palestinian Authority.

Which, by the way, he has overstated his term also, he got elected the first time

AFA was killed

after AFA stepped down.

'cause, you recall, that, Bush Jr. was calling for elections.

for a Palestinian state, One of the conditions that George Bush, placed

on the Palestinian people, that they have to have elections, but Africa

couldn't run, so they had election.

that's how Abbas, came in, that was back in early two thousands.

But since then, they haven't had any other elections, for president of the pa, they,

just kept this guy on and he's been a good shield for the Israelis and the Americans

technically he is like the recognized authority of the Palestinian people.

Yeah, he's overstated his term already and just keep him there and he's ineffective.

Pretty much.

they deserve better.

let's go number 10.

Alright, let's pick it up.

A Trump economic development plan to rebuild and energize GAA will be created

by convening a panel of experts who have helped birth some of the thriving

modern miracle cities in the Middle East.

thoughtful investment proposals and developments, by well-meaning

international groups will be considered to synthesize the security and governance

frameworks to attract these investments that will create jobs opportunity

and hope for the future of ga.

Man, I'm scared whenever I see Trump economic development

plan, because his economic plans are never any good for regular people.

that is what scares me, and we've already seen it.

they want to turn it into a modern technical city with everything

fancy stuff that Singapore has.

But what's the cost for the regular people?

Yeah.

It seems to me like they wanna turn it like we have in the United States,

we have, those casinos indigenous, land, and pretty much indigenous

people on the reservations, but these casinos are owned by big capital I

think that's the vision they have for Gaza, just being this, like you said,

Riviera Casino place, where people, just employees of the big privatized,

companies that will go in there, to make it into a entertainment, district,

scary.

keep in mind, off the coast of Gaza, there's said to

be, deposits of oil as well.

oh,

and you.

More things for them to steal.

Yeah.

They wanna do a corridor, like a trading corridor that comes out through Gaza

as well to, offset the Swiss canal.

right now the Swiss Canal is the only thing that links the Mediterranean to

the Red Sea off to the Indian Ocean.

if not, Europeans will have to go all the way around Africa to get to the

Indian Ocean through the Swiss Canal.

one of the things they wanna do is the iMac Corridor, I think it's

called, but they wanna cut through and create another route into the sea.

yeah, I read about that.

A special economic zone will be established with preferred tariff

and access rates to be negotiated with participating countries.

That to me, reads as privatization and corporations taking over.

Tariff and access rates.

Nice.

So there'll be special rates for people.

No one will be forced to leave Gaza and those who wish to leave will

be free to do so and free to return.

We'll encourage people to stay and offer them the opportunity to build a better

That's interesting.

That's interesting given that a lot of Palestinians are not allowed

to go back, particularly, that's the whole movement about the right to return.

the ones that left, after 1948, they're not allowed to come back.

so it's a lot of, refugee camps surrounding, like in Jordan Syria

and Lebanon, and they're not allowed to come back into Palestine.

All military terror and offensive infrastructure, including tunnels

and weapons production, facilities will be destroyed and not rebuilt.

A process of demilitarization under the supervision of independent monitors,

which will include placing weapons permanently beyond use through an

agreed process of decommissioning and supported by internationally

funded reintegration program, all verified by the independent monitors.

New Gaza will be fully committed to building a prosperous economy

and to peaceful with their

This is a big contentious point with amass

Exactly.

The only neighbor that can't coexist with are the people who are occupying

them pressing them and bombing them.

because they don't have any issue with anybody else in the region.

Exactly.

a long time ago, I remember, norm talking about that

their vision of a Palestinian state is what they call a Bonton state.

which is what South Africa had, before, it ended apartheid, which was like

little internal states supposed to be autonomous states in South Africa.

But, they were really controlled by the South African government.

Pretty much what we have here with reservation,

yeah.

Supposed to be nations and autonomous, but they're really

controlled by the federal government.

I think that's the vision they have for this quote unquote Palestinian state.

a total disarmed Palestinian state at the mercy of Israel.

Israel can do whatever it wants to them.

there's no mention of who's gonna be the security for them.

So they're just supposed to pretend like everyone's gonna be cool with them

Yeah.

that's their vision.

The vision is that, a new GA will fully committed to building

prosperous economy peaceful core existence with their neighbors.

Before October 7th, Gaza was under siege for close to 20 years by Israel.

Israelis will brag that they count the calories that go into

Gaza, and occasionally did what they call mowing the grass.

Occasionally did bombing on Gaza because they had to cut, the

grass, that's prior October 7th.

so yeah.

And then keep in mind the West Bank dem militarized, the West Bank, is unarmed

what's been happening in West Bank.

continuous, bulldozing people's homes, and taking more

settlement expansion,

more expansion, taking more and more people's land, so

when their right mind could take the word of Israel, seriously.

All the word of the United States.

Keep in mind that the Native Americans here in the United States lost

their country one treaty at a time.

They lost their country, they lost their land.

I guarantee you will be.

A guarantee will be provided by regional partners to ensure Hamas and the

factions comply with their obligation.

And that the new Gaza, it says there's no threat to its neighbors or its people.

Again, the only entity threatened by Gaza is Israel.

No security.

No one's gonna take care of them.

A guarantee's gonna provide that they will comply.

But there's no other side where they would be able to help them.

The United States will work with international partners to develop

a temporary international stabilization force to immediately deployed in Gaza.

The ISF will train and provide support to vetted Palestinians, police forces Gaza,

and will consult Jordan and Egypt who have extensive experience in the fields.

This force will be the long-term internal security solution.

The ISF will work with Israel and Egypt to help secure border areas along with

newly trained Palestinian police forces.

It is critical to prevent munitions from entering Gaza and to facilitate

the rapid and secure flow of goods to rebuild and revitalize Gaza.

A confliction mechanism will be agreed upon by the parties.

Okay, We're talking about security now, lightly armed police forces in the

West Bank, so it'll probably be similar.

This is international, right?

Yeah.

And there's no, completion date.

it says temporary international stabilization for it, but

there's no completion date.

and who's going to, be in this forces, you know what?

This remind me of Basian Kosovo,

Because, when I deployed a Basian, we deployed with, the

international stabilization force.

And, it was supposed to be temporarily To this day.

And I deployed back in 95 they still have an international stabilization force.

And Kosovo I think K four Kosovo Force, it was called.

And to this day, Kosovo is pretty much a NATO base right now, so

that's what temporary remind me of, temporary, is forever,

They have an international force in the Sinai after the, 1979 War.

To supposedly keep peace and everything.

They've been there ever since,

Yeah.

Ever since, this war, Israel did cross over and bomb.

Egypt and killed Egyptian soldiers.

And that international force didn't do anything.

after the 2006 war in Lebanon, you had the International Force, in Southern Lebanon.

And that was part of the peace treaty after the, war

between Hezbollah and Israel.

when Israel tried to invade Lebanon this time around they didn't do anything.

they were attacked, they were bombed too, and nothing happened.

this temporary international stabilization force does not inspire confidence in me.

Yeah.

we get into security,

Yeah.

Lightly armed cops with a international force that'll stay there forever.

Israel will not occupy or annex Gaza as the ISF

establishes control and stability.

The IDF will withdraw based on standards, milestones, and timeframes linked to

demoralization that will be agreed upon between the I-D-F-I-S-F, the guarantors

and the United States, with the objective of a secure Gaza that no longer poses a

threat to Israel, Egypt, or its citizen.

Practically, the IDF will progressively hand over the Gaza territory to the

ISF according to an agreement that will make the transitional authority until

they are withdrawn completely from Gaza, save the security perimeter that will

remain until Gaza is properly secured from any resurgent terror threat.

Yeah, another mouthful.

But the first sentence is important.

If they want to abide by the agreement, Israel has to follow this, I'm gonna

be paying really close attention to these timeframes that they're gonna

be establishing because that's the most important thing in my mind

when are you gonna start creating these timeframes to withdraw?

they haven't mentioned timeframes.

No,

And that the first sentence that says Israel will not occupy an annex Gaza,

they're not supposed to occupy an annex no territory after 1967, yet They still do.

and that's the first time also I heard that, that a Gaza a threat to Egypt.

That seems a stretch.

Egyptian protestors, when they were, doing this last two years.

were.

Discouraged from protesting, people would come out to the street,

they were getting beat back down.

not to come on the street and protest in favor of Gaza.

So I don't think the citizens are worried, about Goins,

definitely not.

All right.

17. We're almost done.

in the event Hamas delays or rejects this proposal, the above, including

the scale of operation will proceed.

So what they're saying here that they'll continue bringing aid regardless if,

If AMA delays or reject the proposals,

I think they're saying in those specific areas instead

of across the whole strip.

Interesting.

Interfaith dialogue will be established based on the values of

tolerance and peaceful coexistence to change mindsets and narratives of

Palestinians and Israelis by emphasizing the benefits derived from peace.

This is ambitious

I think it's done deliberately.

roughly about 30% of Palestinians are Christians, right?

some of the infrastructure that was hit, bias raids were Christian churches.

which doesn't always make the narrative because as you heard, Benjamin Netina

recently say that they want to keep the American Christian, evangelical,

on board To support Israel and whatnot.

so bringing up that a lot of people are being targeted, but Israel

also Christians as well, does not go well for their narrative.

'cause they want all pastors to be quote unquote radical, Islamists.

that's the go-to, narrative that they want to go to, the fighters that are

on the ground, the FOPT that would call the Democratic front for Liberation of

Palestine Palestine Liberation Front.

They are socialist organizations, Marxist organizations, and a lot

of them, are not, confessional to any religious, but that also get

left out of the narrative as well.

Yeah.

they're also Christian militias.

We saw Christian militias as well, fighting off the Israelis.

And that doesn't make the narrative, here in the west, because it doesn't go

well with the box that they're trying to make that all these people are radical

Islamists, and that's not the fact.

we still need to pull away from this idea that there's this big

war of the West versus Islam, there's still so many people that think that

because they think that Islam is somehow incompatible with Western values, and

it's if you actually talk to Muslims, you'll know that's not the case.

Most of them have never talked to anybody from that area.

So they just have their misconceptions.

it seems like it's deliberately done because if you look two states

that were multi confessional, and, they were, secular Iraq, and Syria.

they were destroyed.

They were destroyed and broken up, and made to be sectarian, where

before Iraq wasn't sectarian, it was multi confessional.

Saddam came from a Sunni family, but his vice president was a Christian, Tariq.

it was made to be sectarian, just like Syria Syria was multi confessional.

The president came from an alloy, background, but the majority of the

Syrian Arab army was Sunnis, and they were also Christians and they were also,

Jews, and the military as well, and religion didn't, religion wasn't a main

factor in the way that state functioned,

Whereas now, by supporting, ISIS and Al-Qaeda and taking over the Syrian

state, now it's became sectarian, and now it fits in that box the

conservative box America versus Islamic world, it was made to be that way.

Before it wasn't

Yeah.

But you're right.

I do have conversation with people who are conservative minded and they seem to

believe that, Islam is coming to get us.

It's like this big boogeyman,

If you spoke to Muslims, you would know that fighting is Haram.

fighting is against their religion and the fighters that do it are

not representative of Islam.

That's where the term Titi came from.

That's what Nara called the Isis and Akile, they were going

against the teachings of Islam, they call it Titi fighters.

For those who don't know Nasrallah was the Hezbollah, leader.

That was killed last year with, Israel bombardment of about, I think it was

80 Bunker Busters, that pretty much level a whole square, killing like over

2000 people just to get one person.

Wow.

I did not know it was that many.

Yeah.

they level a whole square, with about 80 bunker busters bombs and whatnot.

Holy shit.

I gotta go back in.

It was 2000.

there was a lot of people just to get one.

All right.

Where were we at?

1919?

Gaza redevelopment advances, and when the PA reform program is faithfully

carried out, the conditions may finally be in place for a credible pathway

to Palestinian self-determination and statehood, which we recognize as the

aspiration of the Palestinian people.

That sounds good,

but they haven't mentioned what reform the PA has to do Up to now,

the PA has been faithfully following whatever Washington tells 'em to do.

Exactly.

So what more reform do they need?

it doesn't give a timeframe for Palestinian statehood either, they've

been like if everything is perfect, if everything, if all the T's are

across and know the, i's dotted, maybe we'll think about a Palestinian state.

that's what it reads to me.

Yeah.

Still not guaranteeing a Palestinian state,

It's saying as we do all these things, the conditions may be in place

for a credible pathway, who determines what that may is and who determines what

those conditions mean when they're met.

And keep in mind that most countries have recognized

the Palestinian states.

Yeah.

Remember in meeting that they did, a lot of European states, recognized

Palestinian, a state, including the uk

France, Canada, uk.

Yeah.

Crazy.

So most countries around the world, recognize Palestine as a state.

keep in mind that Kosovo, for example, became a state.

Serbia does not consider, accept a state.

And neither does Spain Spain does not see Cavo state, neither does Russia

Why?

Because the United States considered a state.

Serbia have never given up Kosovo Kosovo was a province of Serbia.

they're never accepted Kosovo as a state, and yet they're a state.

The United States will establish a dialogue between Israel and

the Palestinians to agree on a political Horizon for peaceful and

prosperous It just sound beautiful.

It sounds nice, the reality is, and I think this is something that

people in America don't really want to talk about that much, is the fact that,

when you look at the Israeli population.

And what they say to Arabs and how they think about Arabs and the Palestinians.

they don't consider them people, and they have so much work to do if they

really wanna get to a place where they feel like at peace they have so

much work to do to make their country into a more open and accepting place.

I don't see that happening in any short amount of time.

Like I said, the onus of this is placed on the Palestinians

Yeah.

it's not placed in the Israeli population, not

placed in Israeli leadership.

Everything's placed on the shoulders of the Palestinian.

The Palestinian needs to reform, not the Israelis,

Palestinian

need to confirm conform, not the Israeli, the Palestinians to conform.

Palestinian needs to comply.

Not the Israeli Palestinian needs to comply.

Everything falls on the shoulder of the Palestinians, It's not a peace

plan, It's an article surrender, to me that's how it read to me.

It's an article Surrender.

Yeah, I see that

it's like how after World War ii, in Japan, United States pretty

much Wrote the Japanese Constitution the peace treaty was American written.

Japanese just had sign.

That's it.

It was a surrender treaty.

Guess what this reached to me is surrender treaty.

there's not a lot imposition on

The Israelis It's just accepted that they're on board with this

and that they want to do everything they can to create peace as well.

And we know that's just not the case

Is it

No.

what do you think about this peace plant, Kagan?

I think it sounds good, but there's a lot of problems with it.

I wish there was more in position on the Israelis to do something about it

and make themselves better, instead of putting everything on the Palestinians.

But I'm happy that at least somebody's trying to do something.

at the end of the day, it's better than nothing at this point 'cause

it's been so long and so many people have died we need to have a solution.

I'm glad that this is something that's at least being put forward.

it's a good starting point.

You think last hold.

I think that depends on Israel.

That depends on how much they wanna keep fighting.

It depends on Netanyahu, how much he wants To stay in power, which we know he is

doing everything he can to stay in power.

that is what concerns me that he's gonna wait until the hostages are

released and then start bombing again.

So that just blows this whole thing out of the water.

But I hope that doesn't happen.

Do you think, the Palestinians will disarm?

I think you'd have some people that do, but I doubt most of 'em will,

because it's existential for them.

May I recall Israeli ambassador to the uk, for her name

when she was interviewed in Sky News.

and she flat out said that the Palestinian has to go,

All of 'em have to go.

just leave a small amount of them in Israel, for labor, with

that attitude, can this work?

I don't see that working with these people in power,

that don't see them as people.

They don't acknowledge their assistance.

So you have to have entirely new people that are at least willing to

entertain the idea that Palestinians are people and we need to acknowledge

them on a diplomatic basis.

Kay, I think it's a good place to wrap up for the day.

thank you for jumping on the show.

any last words before we depart?

everyone stay safe and, fuck ice And free Palestine.

Yeah.

Stay in the street.

Not, just because peace.

20 peace plan or whatever you wanna call it.

I call it surrender deal.

But just because this came forward and fighting seems to be winding

down is not time for people to go home, and have brunch again.

keep an eye on the ball.

we stay in the street, stay putting pressure, keep calling representative,

whatever you do at your disposal.

the end game here is a free Palestine, a Liberate Palestine.

these people in Tel Aviv, and Washington need to be held accountable.

they need to face some type of, accountability, and then Yahoo has been,

cited by the ICC and ICJ, for war crimes.

he needs to be held accountable, it's not time to get your foot

off the gas, keep pushing,

the pressure on.

Alright.

Thank you again.

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