You, yes you! Here’s your business wake up call. 

It’s not the warm and fuzzy 2024 “New Year's Resolutions” or goal setting conversation you were hoping for, but it’s the conversation you need, especially if you have big goals for 2024 and beyond. 

In this episode, we go through all the ways you’re playing it safe in your business (some might surprise you), and how to turn that around. 

Head over to iwannacollaborate.com and let us know what you took away from this conversation.

Music credit: The Funkster by Sweet Spot

A Subito Media production

Hello, and welcome back to the eavesdrop on us podcast.

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I'm

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Susan: Jessica.

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I'm Susan.

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Jessica T: And as we wrap up, this is

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said 2024 because my mind's already

thinking about next year, but this

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is our last episode for the year.

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And as we were tossing

ideas around the table.

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You know, Susan, you, you brought

something that was really interesting.

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It has, which really has nothing to

do with resolutions or goal setting

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or all of the other kind of, I think,

cliche important things entrepreneurs

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have to do, but I really liked this

topic that you brought to the table

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because I think it's something that

as business owners are thinking

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about 2024 and what they want to do.

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I don't think this is a question

they're using to evaluate their

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decision making, their progress.

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So I'm going to toss it over

to you to give some context.

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Susan: Well, there were a couple

of items that we talked about, and

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the one that I'm really interested

in is what questions are you asking

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yourself at the end of the year?

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You know, where do you want to go?

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How do you want to get there?

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And more importantly, are you committed

to doing anything And I do mean

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anything different fascinated by this

dynamic of we're going to do the same

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thing but hope for pray for wish for

something different as an outcome.

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And, you know, the reality of the

situation is it just doesn't happen.

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Right.

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So, it's a dynamic I'm seeing often.

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And I'm actually even seeing

folks double down on it.

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And it's, it's a lesson that

we learn in, in primary school.

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If you want something different, you need

to commit to doing something or thinking

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something or saying something different.

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Jessica T: you had an instance

come up this week that I

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think showcases that point.

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So, so what was it that you were

like, we've got to talk about this.

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Like this has to be a conversation.

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Susan: prominent board of directorship

reached out to us and asked if

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we would come in and provide some

support guidance and leadership in

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developing what their priorities should

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so it's really an offsite, right?

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It's an opportunity where all

stakeholders get in 1 room and

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basically we try to figure out Or

triage and a technical term here triage.

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What competing priorities should in

fact be 1, 2, and 3, and the reality

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of the situation is once this.

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Senior leadership team member reached out

to me and said, Hey, would you consider?

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And of course I, yeah,

it'd be great for everyone.

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And, was actually quite excited about it.

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That aside, this person believed.

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They had the votes lined

up for them to go forward.

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So this person leaned a little above tip

of the skis, if you will, on this one.

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And we had a lovely soft agreement.

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Okay, we'll go do this and

you go before you board and

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present it, yada, yada, yada.

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This person believed they had the

15 votes required, and yet when they

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got into the room, what happened?

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Ooh, the archetypes show

up in group dynamics.

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The sniper, the one that's quiet, attends

everything, goes along, gets along,

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but does nothing new or different.

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In fact, they like

things just as they are.

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Whether it's good, bad, happy,

sad, they don't want to change.

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They absolutely want

things to stay the same.

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Well, this person prevails.

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And how did they prevail?

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Well, they got the ears, they got

the attention, and they got the

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emotionality of the room, they

got the momentum, and they turned

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the vote around to knock forward.

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Now, as you might imagine, I was

disappointed, sure, but I was

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more disappointed On their behalf,

because what a missed opportunity.

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We're going into 24.

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You have a new board.

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You have committed individuals.

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And oh, yeah, let's keep

doing the same thing.

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So we're going to get along, go along.

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And meanwhile.

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Everybody is going to keep passing

them by, including opportunity,

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including needs, including potential.

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Everything will continue to pass them by.

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Why?

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They're voting on staying

in a place of inertia.

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We're going to stay put.

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But here's the sick part, and it is

sick, and it is a really ugly actually

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necrosis that sets up in a board.

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We're going to push this off

to everybody else around us.

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We're not going to do what we're

supposed to be doing, leading,

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nurturing, supporting the

membership or the senior leadership.

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We're just going to go

along and play along.

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And not do a thing.

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And what that does is basically it shirks

the responsibility down line, and it

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creates terrific frustration, I mean,

to the of where people get really angry

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and dispassionate and check out and.

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Basically leave an organization because

they don't see the evolving momentum.

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They don't see the

opportunities being seen.

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They don't see, a leadership

team doing exactly that.

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Leading.

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They're just treading water.

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Jessica T: What a heartbreak.

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Now I think it was the first

point that really stood out to me.

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If we think about, deciding.

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What you need to do differently next

year to kind of get where you want to go.

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And so I have, I have more of a

strategic question for you, Susan,

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which is so often we hear from a

business strategy standpoint, when you

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own a business, you have a strategy

that works, simplify it, do those

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things until you get bored, right?

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Because you're going to really

master them, perfect them,

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dial things in all of that.

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What's the fine line between doing those

things that work and saying I'm going to

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keep doing these things because they work,

I'm not going to reinvent the wheel, I'm

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not going to second guess things, and then

the line between I can keep doing those

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things, but I'm not going to get anywhere.

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Do you see what I'm asking?

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Like, I think there's a place of inertia.

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Susan: And played it safe, won't this?

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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So let me define inertia,

lack of movement and vision.

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Jessica T: Oh, okay.

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So I think it's a, it's a matter of,

you could be doing certain things in

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your business and getting results.

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And it's like, well, why

would you change that?

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Because it's silly because it

works every single time versus you

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could be doing things in your work.

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Well, work, meaning you're finding

clients and customers, it's, you know,

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you're able to grow the business in

terms of team, revenue, et cetera, versus

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you're doing things and things feel

busy and it kind of looks like you're

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getting things done, but you're not.

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So I think that's an important distinction

for listeners, which is we are not

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suggesting throwing your strategy out

the window because no, it's the opposite.

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Yeah, it's, if you are, if you found

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year critically and honestly, and you

say, I really, we didn't get to where we

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wanted to get, we didn't get the results

we wanted to get, and your plan is to do

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the same thing in 2024, that just seems

so, it's a tough word about that, Susan.

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Well, yeah, it

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Susan: seems silly, doesn't it, from

the outside, and that is the value of

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bringing in an outsider, not to say, well,

that was stupid, or that's silly, it's

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to bring in the lack of emotional bias.

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an advisor and a consultant at that

level, we come in dispassionately.

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We don't have serfs and

turfs to fight over.

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We're about creating collaboratives,

coalitions towards the outcome, right?

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So I bring in voice for the

organization, not the individuals.

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That make it up more to the point if the

goal is to grow membership an intention is

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to grow membership to such an extent that

we can hire full time front office staff.

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I'm going to do a damn new thing.

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We're not going to pivot we're

not going to change we're going

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to keep things going, as it is.

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Yikes.

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that's malfeasance.

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That's a malpractice as a leader and

your your responsibility is to what if

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we want that as an outcome, then we have

to put things in place towards that.

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Now, we could say, well, wait a

second if they lock themselves

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into a boardroom and hash it out.

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Okay.

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Well, they just save

themselves some money.

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Great.

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They lost a day or so.

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Not so great.

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But now you have to ask yourselves, are

we asking of the that particular board?

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Are we still going to the workhorses?

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And you know what?

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Anybody listening that's been on a board

of directorship knows who I'm speaking up.

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The ones that like to be, you

know, active and present and

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accounted for and do the work.

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But you know what?

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You can only ask them so

many times to do more.

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Jessica T: So I think it's

the it's the matter of yeah.

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We bring this to a typical

business owner right now.

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There's no board.

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There's no big group.

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It's usually them or a small,

you know, one or two people.

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Yeah, it's a small leadership team.

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Yeah.

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Susan: I want to double my business.

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Well, of course you do.

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Okay.

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What have you committed to get that?

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And if you haven't thought that

through to the last step, that's unfair

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of you as a leader, your role and

responsibility as a servant leader is to

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soften the ground, clear the way, make

possible, those goals and achievements.

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That you want to achieve, make

it happen, but you have to

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clear the way for your team.

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It's not enough to say, hey, team, we're

going to go grow our business by double.

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Yay.

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Teams is great.

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Okay.

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How?

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I don't know.

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Just do more.

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Do

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Jessica T: more of what?

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Do more of what?

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I know we hear that all the time.

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It's like, I want to, you know,

increase my revenue or I want,

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you know, I want to go big.

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And we're like, okay, so first

of all, what does that mean?

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And second of all, what's

your plan to get there?

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You know, what actions are you taking?

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And in many cases, but I think what we're

uncovering here is in crafting that, Okay.

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The biggest mistakes that we see are

people either not even thinking of that in

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the first place, and they're like, we're

just going to keep doing what we're doing.

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And if I give myself some space over the

next couple weeks before January starts,

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I'll be able to like, figure it out.

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I'll just figure out what I want to do.

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And And it's

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Susan: that.

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Yeah.

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That's the insidious,

harmful, toxic behavior.

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We'll just just in time figure it out.

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Well, hold on.

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You may work that way as the

business owner, founder, visionary,

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but your team doesn't do that.

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And that's grossly unfair to ask of

your downline team members to do that.

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Their W 2s in most instances,

meaning their employees,

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that's not in the contract.

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They're there to go do their job, do

it exceptionally well, and go home.

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Not to do it after hours, not to

stress over it over the weekend.

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That's not their role and responsibility.

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It's yours.

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So if you're doing your job, you

actually wouldn't be doing that on

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the weekend or after hours either.

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But let's face it, that's what we do.

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So if we say we don't want it,

well, it just takes discipline.

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It takes commitment.

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It takes ringing.

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So ultimately, Jessica, it comes

down to how do our business leaders,

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owners, founders, visionaries,

how do they check themselves?

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How do they protect themselves

from their personal bias?

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I will forever, ever.

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Obviously, I'm expressing my bias.

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You need an advisor to hold and

teach and help support you to be

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more comfortable, to be a better

servant leader to you and your team.

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Honestly, it's the personal bias

that robs us of those moments.

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I have one, you have one.

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I mean, we walk the talk.

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So ultimately, you know, I, after

that call today and after having that

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experience, it was wow, you know,

what a missed opportunity and such.

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And that's what I mourned most

was the opportunity of that

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potential could be actualized.

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Almost effortlessly, to be honest

with you, and that's a part that

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I'm having a hard time with.

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But that's my thing.

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That's, you know, I think what we can

all learn from that is, how can we

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protect ourselves from not having that

event happen, not being robbed of the

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benefit and potential of what could be.

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Well, just playing it safe.

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Jessica T: Yeah, that's really I think

where I wanted to go with this is is I

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think that certainly there's the I have

to be aware as I grow my business that I'm

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going to have my own personal biases and

I'm going to not be able to see certain

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things and I need someone to help help me

see those help me uncover what those are.

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But really, I think what

we're also getting into is

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this idea of playing it safe.

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And I wondered if we could just for the

benefit of the listeners, As they're

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thinking about their business, talk

about some signs that they may be playing

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it a bit too safe in their business.

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Especially when they're thinking of

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how I want to reach my goals and

if I want to grow bigger and all

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of that, how are they playing it?

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Susan: I just say, what a great question.

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Jessica T: Well, I'll just say

this, Susan, if you know that Vogue

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on YouTube, this is a side, side

note, you know that 73 questions?

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Yes!

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Like that would be, that's like I missed

my dream job opportunity because I just

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want to go ask people questions all day.

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Susan: Well, and this is, well,

that was a terrific question.

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Okay.

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So how do they know what, what's

the tangible evidence in their day

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to day that they should be a quote

unquote, what are the signs that

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you might be in a place of inertia?

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Well, because here's

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Jessica T: the thing.

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I think the people we're speaking

to generally, these are not.

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New business owners.

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These are people who

they've been in business.

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They're doing things.

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I'm talking to

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Susan: the advanced

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Jessica T: kids.

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Yeah, they're making things happen.

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So I don't know if they're

necessarily even aware.

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Like, we see it that, like,

you are playing it safe.

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Like, you say this is what you want

to do and you've gotten this far.

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Like, but, but you're playing it safe.

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And this is how you're playing it safe.

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Because I don't think there's an

awareness necessarily that they are.

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Susan: There isn't.

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if you feel like you're coasting, you are.

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If you feel like you're trusting, and

understand I'm using air quotes around

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the trusting and trusting or trusting

your team to deliver your vision

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entirely, you're in a place of inertia.

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It's almost like here's your sign.

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if you're in a place where, you know, your

prices have not gone up in the past year.

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You're in a place of inertia.

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if you find yourself saying,

Oh, we can't afford that.

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Ooh, we can't do that.

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Oh, I don't know if I have the time

for you're in a place of inertia.

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And every time we limit.

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Diminish marginalized.

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And quite honestly, talk

down any opportunities.

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Yeah, you're eyeballs

deep and inertia inertia

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Jessica T: being.

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You're not moving.

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You're not moving.

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And therefore, well, well, and I

think that, well, that inertia could

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look like you're still making money.

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Things are still

happening in the business,

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Susan: But here's the thing.

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the, there's the trick of it.

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That's the end of it.

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Yes, you're generating income.

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Okay, congratulations.

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But if you haven't been, playing the

game here for a while, guess what?

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Things have increased in prices.

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So if you have not passed those costs

on, you're losing, losing ground,

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and you're in a place of inertia.

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If, you defer decisions, well,

let me take that on next month.

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You're in a place of Now, this

is meant to be provocative.

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Jessica T: I also think, you know,

something that I personally use

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to tell when like, wait a second.

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Am I playing it too safe?

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Am I, not really stretching myself here

is if I don't have like the butterflies

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in my stomach before I do something, like

if I don't have that, whether it's You

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know, I'm about to get on a sales call and

I'm about to position something new, or

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I've increased the pricing, or I'm about

to say something a little bit different

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in an email or a social media post, or

I'm about to go speak to an audience

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on this new topic, or I've added some,

whatever I've adjusted it or something.

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If I don't have that like pit

in my stomach, that's how I

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know I'm in a place of inertia.

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Yeah.

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Take

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Susan: a look at your group

too, who you hang with.

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Oh, let's talk more about that.

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It's one of my favorites.

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you know the old adage, tell me your top

three friends or five friends, and I'll

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help you discover who you really are.

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Or, are you the nicest house on the block?

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You know, you never want to be that house.

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we see, You'll never recover it, right?

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Jessica T: No, because we see this

a lot too, in the example of joining

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masterminds or groups of other

entrepreneurs or networking groups,

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you know, you're part of these like

tight knit kind of communities.

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And I think if you've kind of like

hung around or stayed too long,

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Susan: yeah, that's a place of inertia.

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Yeah.

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Like, I mean, can we talk 10

plus years in the same BNI group?

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You're in a place of inertia.

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You are.

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I love those groups.

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I mean, honestly folks, if you

really knew my passion and advocacy

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of those particular groups, you,

you'd just be scratching the surface

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of my mad, blind passion for them.

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I really do believe in them.

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I'm a huge advocate of them, but I'm

also a huge believer in evolving.

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And I have to say that always

wins the day, you know, because

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what happens is these people go

there for a morning clutch group.

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They're not about helping you find that.

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And I've seen this, and this is

the point when you and that's why

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I brought up take a look at the

people around you if they're not.

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hustling and in the best of ways,

folks, I'm not talking about, you

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know, the negative of the hustling.

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I'm talking the positive.

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I want to grow my business.

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I want to grow my skills.

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I want to grow the opportunity.

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I want to be of more

service in my marketplace.

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That's what I'm speaking

of when I say hustling.

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If you're not doing that and

the folks around you aren't

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committed to that, yikes.

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You're in the wrong room.

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You should be in a room

where, quite frankly, you're

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the, um, you're the vanilla.

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You're not the nicest house.

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You're not the junkiest house.

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You're not the richest person.

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You're not the poorest person.

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You know, go for vanilla.

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In this instance, you want to take

a look at your friends if they're

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chilling and they're, really just

kicking it back into neutral.

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Well, then you know what they

say you are who you're with, and

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you're in a place of inertia.

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This is not the time

to be on the sidelines.

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This isn't it, because I predict

those that are on the sideline right

380

now, you're at risk of losing your

business within 12 to 24 months.

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And I will die on that hill.

382

This is not the time to phone it in, get

up, dust yourself off and get in the game,

383

hire a coach or advisor, get real on what

the honest opportunities are, try like

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crazy to neutralize if not mitigate what

personal bias or narrative that you may

385

have created in your head and get it done.

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This is the time to do so.

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Now everyone's focused on what am I

going to be when I grow up in January?

388

Uh uh.

389

This should be a conversation

you have every Monday with your

390

team regardless of the month.

391

regardless.

392

So that's my point.

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Jessica T: Well, I, I think, I think

it's a time in which, and I say

394

this lovingly trying to pick the

395

Like I'm not saying those things

don't work, but I think what we see,

396

because we're in the trenches with

business owners every single day, we

397

have dozens of conversations in our

networking and, you know, various.

398

You know, meetings.

399

I think this is a time where that kind

of feel good stuff has to be get a puppy.

400

Well, I think it has to be matched

with the hard conversations

401

of what have I been avoiding?

402

Am I playing it safe?

403

why am I okay settling

and just being satisfied?

404

I think that's a bigger question because

If we think about the groups that you're

405

surrounded with, the activities that

you're doing, if it's just phoning it

406

in, like, why are you okay with that?

407

Like, why are you

settling for that in your

408

Susan: business?

409

Again, another great question.

410

And this is the point.

411

is it?

412

A lot of folks don't know that

they're in that place, by the way.

413

Well, I know that's why we're having

414

Jessica T: this conversation.

415

I think it's the, it's that

awareness of like, have you been

416

in the same group dialing it in

for the last like couple years?

417

have you been surrounded

by the same people?

418

Have you been doing the same thing?

419

And it's just like, you wake up, you

do things it's wrote at this point.

420

I mean, that I think should be your

wake up call for like, wait a second.

421

Things have got to shift.

422

I've got to make some changes.

423

That's what

424

Susan: happened to me with, I

was in a terrifically performing.

425

BNI group and then in 2 years, I noticed

half the group was using it as a coffee

426

clutch and I respectfully resigned.

427

I, I needed to be challenged.

428

stimulated, encouraged, nurtured, taught.

429

I needed a rich learning environment

where, you know, hey, we're all in

430

it to show up at a bigger, hopefully

more lucrative, productive place

431

at the end of whatever we're doing.

432

But you

433

Jessica T: know what,

that happened to me too.

434

It's so important.

435

That this was a, if we use that

example of, of BNI, right, just as an

436

illustration, I think it's that point,

I think it's the behaviors of the group,

437

but then I also think it's that, wait a

second, I've got to temper the emotions

438

around this because I think it's, it's a,

well, it's a level of, I feel comfortable.

439

There's predictability there.

440

It's stable, right?

441

It's fun.

442

Like I go get it done.

443

I think there's, you know, this is.

444

a parallel to lots of different

scenarios in a business, right?

445

But I remember having this

conversation with you.

446

This was pre COVID.

447

This goes back a couple of years.

448

We were like, yeah, it was like, do

we renew and keep going with this?

449

Do we try something a

little bit different?

450

And we grounded the conversation

in let's look at the data.

451

Let's let's look at the numbers.

452

It was like, wait a second.

453

Let's look at how many

referrals we have received.

454

Let's look at how many

referrals we have passed.

455

Let's look at closed business.

456

We have experienced in the 12

months from this particular group

457

and the numbers just weren't there.

458

And so with that, you know, we,

we ended up making that decision.

459

It was like, well, time to

460

Susan: really drove that to, right.

461

I, to your point, well done.

462

Um, we monetized it, right.

463

And through that exercise, but then

we asked a really important question.

464

Is it fun?

465

Is it still fun?

466

And, you know, so way back when we

first started sharing our thoughts

467

and belief systems and dreams on this

podcast, we also brought it funds

468

really super important to us, isn't it?

469

So, you know, for me, fun is being

encouraged, nurtured, supported,

470

challenged, growing, all of those

components, and it just wasn't there.

471

Jessica T: But I think that's also

like part of fun is, yes, there's

472

a feel good component to it, but I

think fun also means that you're being

473

mentally stimulated, that there's

the butterfly pit in your stomach

474

when you're trying to think it was.

475

So I think, I think it's one of those

where like, it's not always about like,

476

this is just I'm having a great time.

477

It's like my, I'm being

challenged creatively, like

478

I'm being stretched like this.

479

I'm being engaged in a

way that I wasn't before.

480

And so I think that is, I

think an important question.

481

And we've been such a good, I think

what's so fun about us being in business

482

together is that we have been able to

have those conversations and like, wait a

483

second, when we're assessing opportunities

or really looking at what we've done.

484

And especially as we're thinking

485

What isn't producing what kind of

stagnating for us and also what

486

is just not fun because again,

I think there's that in a, in

487

a very chaotic world right now.

488

I know people are seeking stability.

489

I know people are seeking.

490

I just want something

predictable, however,

491

Susan: and profitable.

492

Jessica T: And profitable.

493

Yes.

494

Yes.

495

So I'm just going to stick with

this, even if I don't really like it.

496

I it's whatever it's,

it's getting me something.

497

Susan: Let's see that

contributes to the inertia.

498

I'm not going to rock the boat.

499

I have what I have better to

have what I have than not have.

500

Right.

501

And my greatest concern is when I

work with our clients, I tell them

502

consistently, you know, just because

you created this opportunity, it

503

doesn't mean it's a prison sentence.

504

You're not in jail.

505

You can evolve, change, and grow,

and have it grow with you, and that

506

really requires an outside perspective.

507

That is damn near impossible

to do on a singleton journey.

508

I mean, look, is it impossible?

509

No.

510

But I would be hard pressed to, if you

put 10 entrepreneurs in front of me,

511

I'm not going to say all 10, maybe one,

maybe, and I'm giving it two, but those

512

eight other people, hell, that's a hell

no, that's not getting done on their own.

513

It's not.

514

No, I think it's one of

515

Jessica T: those where it gets pushed.

516

For like, well, I'll just wait.

517

I'll just figure it out later or

I'll just yeah, that's I think

518

that's really what ends up happening

is with the best of intentions.

519

It's like I'm going to sit down and

sort this out and figure this out.

520

And I've read the books and I've

taken the courses and I can just

521

kind of figure this out and solve

this on Thursday afternoon at 2 p.

522

m.

523

And then before you know it,

it's like six weeks later and

524

it still hasn't gotten solved.

525

And how many

526

Susan: times have we heard if only.

527

I did this earlier with you.

528

I think

529

Jessica T: it's really,

it's, it's looking at time.

530

It's, it's the value of time.

531

It's, you know, trying to, you

could spend a lot of time and it can

532

feel very difficult and ultimately

I think be more confusing because

533

then you get inside your head or you

could just sit down with somebody.

534

And that's the

535

Susan: point, isn't it?

536

There's the bias, the head, right?

537

And what I was alluding to with, um, one,

two, three different businesses that we're

538

working with, very senior businesses, 20.

539

Years plus in business.

540

Each one has said to me emphatically

Why didn't we do this earlier?

541

And I'll tell, and each time I had

the conversation with him, because

542

of course I want to know, right?

543

So the questions, ah, asking

questions, I asked them questions

544

about, well, why didn't you?

545

Well, I, I didn't think

we had the money for it.

546

I didn't think I had the time for it.

547

I didn't think I was at a place for it.

548

And the reality is, yes, yes,

and yes, you did have it.

549

You had all three.

550

And you talked yourself out of it.

551

Because here you are on the

other side of that mountain

552

going, dang it, why didn't I?

553

That was goofy.

554

And there's the point, is that our bias

will tell us, no, no, no, don't do it, you

555

don't know what you're doing, better to

have what you have than lose what you've

556

got, and that's a place of fear and alarm.

557

But that's another conversation.

558

My point here is, don't allow yourself

to play smaller, or be smaller.

559

And play safe because honestly what

you're probably doing is creating a double

560

down effect on a place of inertia and

the world will fly past you right now.

561

It's, it's not the time to play it

safe and sit on the bench, just as a.

562

Well, and I

563

Jessica T: think, I think we're very

reasonably sounding the alarm, not for

564

people to panic, but as we enter this

year, I think what you just said, this,

565

this, the behavior of kind of coasting

tolerating, I'm just going to keep doing

566

what I'm doing is, isn't that a good word?

567

Coasting.

568

That's what I keep thinking of.

569

It's like, I'm just going to

coast, you know, not make waves.

570

I'm just going to keep doing what

I'm doing because it's working.

571

Okay.

572

And we'll see what happens.

573

I think that you said it earlier.

574

So well, and I think we could probably

wrap up on that point is you're not

575

serving your business, your team,

or more importantly, yourself, if

576

you continue to engage in that way.

577

Yeah.

578

Susan: appreciate you.

579

Yeah.

580

Yeah.

581

Jessica T: I know you're today.

582

You're like, I am on fire.

583

I've got a point I want to make.

584

So I, yeah.

585

So I think those of you listening, you

know, from the bottom of our hearts,

586

this is if you are committed to your

business and you want to see your business

587

thrive in 2024 and beyond, this is the

time to, you know, pick up your head,

588

collaborate with someone and solve those

problems so you can, you know, avoid the

589

coasting and really get what you want

out of your business and, and your life.

590

Susan: Yeah, so let me speak to

the person that may be hearing

591

this past the preparing for 2024.

592

You're hearing this with

great reason and intention.

593

Take a look around.

594

Jessica asked a great question.

595

What are the tangible signs

and what's going on around you?

596

You that's affirming that you

may be in a place of inertia

597

really keep you into that.

598

And if you find yourself in

that place, just give us a call.

599

We'll love to walk you through that.

600

And if it's not us that you choose

ultimately to partner with, well,

601

good golly, we have more amazing folks

that we could happily connect you with

602

because is the point to do something

productive to keep moving forward.

603

Good point.

604

And I think with that,

605

Jessica T: thank you so much

for a very honest, heartfelt

606

conversation today, Susan.

607

Susan: Thank you for

creating space for it.

608

I appreciate it.

609

Jessica T: Yeah.

610

And with that, I will see you next

611

Susan: time.

612

All right.

613

Bye folks.

614

Bye.