Shownotes
Episode Summary
Magdalena Szawarska is the Co-Founder and CEO of Nangatech, an organization that designs the most effective nanogas technology to boost the productivity of farming. Today, Harry and Magdalena talk about the state of AgTech in her hometown of Warsaw, Poland, her background in psychology, and the numerous benefits that nanogas and nanobubble technology has on the agriculture industry. Magdalena discusses the low barrier to entry for farmers to utilize this technology and how it can even be used to benefit animal breeders.
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Key Takeaways
07:14 – Magdalena Szawarska joins the show to discuss her hometown of Warsaw, Poland and how her background in psychology has served her well in her career
17:21 – Nangatech’s origin story
20:42 – The scientific discovery of nanobubbles and the potential for this technology
23:53 – Early adoption challenges
28:01 – Agricultural benefits to nanobubble technology and the low barrier to entry for farmers
31:16 – Presenting at AgTech NYC
33:16 – Animal breeders and nanobubbles
37:02 – The current state of the AgTech industry looks like in Poland
39:35 – A tough question Magdelena has had to ask herself recently, something she’s changed her mind about recently, and a specific ask she has for her colleagues in the industry
47:34 – Harry thanks Magdalena for joining the show and lets listeners know where they can go to connect with her and learn more about
Tweetable Quotes
“For me, the transition from science to business was a beautiful opportunity to see how those other things I was learning - and also, at the next level, I was teaching to my students - really work in real life.” (12:35) (Magdalena)
“I guess, for me, this is extremely beautiful that there are unfinished projects. And there’s always a path we can unfold and there’s always ways in which we can improve.” (17:08) (Magdalena)
“Starting with the benefits, we can increase the efficiency of crops up to twenty percent. The plants, in general, grow better because the oxygen is a biogenic gas, and when we deliver more oxygen to the plant-root systems, the plants grow faster and bigger.” (28:19) (Magdalena)
“In general, we don’t face that many climate issues in Poland. The climate is moderate. There’s still plenty of land that can be used for agriculture. But I guess what’s more important for us, as I mentioned before, people from Warsaw and Poland in general who becoming really aware when it comes to ecology. There are lots of vegans in Poland. Vegans not only don’t eat animal products, but they also think about the environment a lot. So they want to buy local products and for them vertical farming is great because it means no chemistry, no pesticides, fresh product, no deliveries, no carbon dioxide emissions, and so on.” (38:33) (Magdalena)
Resources Mentioned
Magdalena’s LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/magdalena-szawarska-059566180/?locale=en_US
Nangatech – https://www.nangatech.com/
Nangatech YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nangatech
Nangatech LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/company/nangatech/
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Transcripts
$680 million poured into precision ag last year.
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Speaker:C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-D.com,
Speaker:or click the link in the show notes. So I'm always full of ideas, what
Speaker:we can do, what we can improve, what we can test. And very often there
Speaker:are just people who say, no, no, this cannot be done. Why?
Speaker:Just tell me why. I know in some sense I'm ignorant. I'm a psychologist, so
Speaker:probably I'm not aware of something. But I really learned that usually people
Speaker:say that something cannot be done because they're afraid they're
Speaker:not able to do it. And I'm always telling all my team
Speaker:that not knowing, it's okay, it's fine. They can say, I don't
Speaker:know, I don't know the answer. And I'm totally fine with that. But this is
Speaker:a different mindset.
Speaker:Welcome to the Vertical Farming Podcast, weekly conversations with
Speaker:fascinating CEOs, founders, and agtech visionaries.
Speaker:Join us every week as we dive deep into the world of vertical farming
Speaker:with your host, Harry Duran. Vertical Farming Podcast Season
Speaker:6 regular listeners, welcome back. So glad to have you coming
Speaker:back each and every week for this podcast, which I've been doing
Speaker:since 2020. And I honor and respect your
Speaker:time, and the fact that you keep coming back means a lot to me, and
Speaker:you're sharing the word as well because the podcast is growing. And for that,
Speaker:I'm truly appreciative of you, the listener, for all the work you do to keep
Speaker:this show going. If this is your first time listening and someone
Speaker:directed you to this episode, if you're looking for conversations with fascinating
Speaker:CEOs and founders of the leading vertical farming companies from around the world, I've
Speaker:got great news for you. You're in the right place. I'm your host, Harry Duran,
Speaker:always looking to engage with you on a one-to-one level with you, the
Speaker:listener. It's really meaningful for me. I've been podcasting since
Speaker:2014. Some of you may not know my first show is actually
Speaker:called Podcast Junkies, and it's interviews with my fellow
Speaker:podcasting peeps from around the podosphere. And I've
Speaker:been doing that since April of 2014, and we crossed
Speaker:the 300-episode mark this season. We're also humming along with
Speaker:this podcast as well. We are at episode 76, which is amazing.
Speaker:It's been 2+ years. I've met so many fascinating and interesting
Speaker:folks through these conversations, but also expanding my horizons
Speaker:by going out and meeting a lot of you at the
Speaker:conferences that I've attended this past year. So I'm really
Speaker:grateful for everyone I've met at Indoor AgCon, Indoor AgTech NYC,
Speaker:and Agrame in Dubai, earlier this year, and it's been such a great
Speaker:experience, and I look forward to doing much more of that in the coming year
Speaker:as well. In case you missed last week's episode, we spoke with Eric Lang, president
Speaker:and co-founder of ZipPro. We talked about the importance of education in the
Speaker:agtech industry and why local is better than organic. Really
Speaker:engaging conversation with Eric. Make sure you check that out if you haven't already.
Speaker:This week, speaking of AgTech NYC, it's a conversation with
Speaker:Magdalena Swierczka, co-founder and CEO of Nanga Tech, who I saw
Speaker:speak there. What's interesting about Nangatec is it's a company that's
Speaker:creating nanogas technology to boost the productivity of farming. And
Speaker:Magdalena joins us from Warsaw. We talk about her background in psychology
Speaker:and the benefits that nanogas and nanobubble technology has in
Speaker:agtech. Magdalena discusses the low barrier to entry for farmers to
Speaker:utilize this technology and how it can even be used to benefit animal breeders.
Speaker:It's something I was not well versed on, and it really piqued my interest when
Speaker:I saw her speak at AgTech NYC. And I'm so glad
Speaker:we were able to learn a little bit more. I always like to explore the
Speaker:different corners of the agtech world, vertical farming world, and all the
Speaker:different technologies that are being put to use. And this is a really fascinating and
Speaker:interesting conversation with Magdalena. I'm sure you'll learn a lot as well today too.
Speaker:Good news, we have a review that's come in via Podchaser. It was written by
Speaker:CEO97539. It's a 5-star rating.
Speaker:Thank you so much, CEO. It says, I found this podcast on Audible via my
Speaker:mobile, but I followed from Podchaser on desktop to complete this review.
Speaker:Talk about persistence. I gotta love that. Uh, thanks for the information. I am binge
Speaker:listening on all archived episodes. Okay, side note, when people say they're
Speaker:binge listening, you get super extra 5 stars from
Speaker:me because as a podcaster, it's something that I've done personally when I know that
Speaker:I find a show that I really love and I'm passionate about. And the fact
Speaker:that you're doing with this show means a lot to me, so thank you so
Speaker:much. Let's continue. I'm a female founder in North
Speaker:Carolina seeking to begin a full-cycle vertical herbal farm to create a
Speaker:unique herb tea loose leaf wholesale supply chain. The interview
Speaker:with Allison of Artemis was exactly what I needed. Well,
Speaker:CEO97539, thank you so much for taking the time
Speaker:to work your way through the podcasting ecosystem and
Speaker:leave me that review. I really, really appreciate it. And like I
Speaker:promised to anyone that's listening now, if you take the time to go to
Speaker:ratethispodcast.com/vfp, nothing would
Speaker:make me happier than to read your review out on a future episode. Okay,
Speaker:let's jump into this conversation with Magdalena. But before we do, a
Speaker:few words from the folks that support this show. This episode is brought to you
Speaker:by Indoor AgCon 2023. I'm so happy to have
Speaker:been working with the team last year. Indoor AgCon
Speaker:2022 was my very first indoor farming conference,
Speaker:so it was really eye-opening for me. So I'll always be grateful to the team
Speaker:there for rolling out that carpet for me. And I really had a good
Speaker:time meeting a lot of past guests and excited to join them again this year.
Speaker:Entering its 10th year in a row, it's the largest trade show and conference for
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Speaker:educational conference. As always, you'll be able to connect with peers, grocers, and other
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Speaker:gotten to the best part. The team at Indoor AgCon has given
Speaker:listeners of this show 20% off their full
Speaker:access conference pass. All you have to do is use promo code
Speaker:VFP, as in Vertical Farming Podcast, and sign up at
Speaker:indoor.ag. See you there. Regular listeners to the show will
Speaker:know that we are also fans of the work being done by the iGrow News
Speaker:team. The team at iGrow has been kind enough to provide a free
Speaker:month of their paid subscription to the Indoor Vertical Farming newsletter,
Speaker:and those will be available to the first 3 listeners that send in a
Speaker:review. So ratethispodcast.com/vfp, the first 3
Speaker:reviews that come in. Once it's sent, send an email to [email protected].
Speaker:along with your preferred email, and we'll be sure to get that set up for
Speaker:you. So Magdalena Szybarska, co-founder and CEO at Nanga
Speaker:Tech, thank you for joining me on the Vertical Farming Podcast. Thank you,
Speaker:Hari, for the invitation. I'm super happy to be part of this episode,
Speaker:and I was really also very happy that you were interested in my story
Speaker:and in what we do at Nanga Tech. Yeah, it was interesting because we—
Speaker:for the benefit of the listener, I saw the brief presentation you did.
Speaker:It was at Indoor AgTech NYC, is that right? Yes, in New York this
Speaker:year. Okay. And have you been doing indoor farming
Speaker:conferences regularly, or was that your first? Being honest, it was my first
Speaker:one. Okay. And how did you hear about it? So
Speaker:I was searching for some conferences worldwide, and
Speaker:I found this one, and I thought, oh my God, this one, it looks really,
Speaker:really cool, meaning it's really modern, high-tech for
Speaker:indoor farming. I see the list of speakers, I see the list of guests.
Speaker:Many names I know, I know, I heard about those
Speaker:companies and the CEOs. And in fact, it's a really beautiful story how it
Speaker:all ended up that I was here because I didn't plan that at all.
Speaker:I was thinking that maybe because it looks really interesting,
Speaker:maybe we'll join with the online pass so I could hear the
Speaker:panels and just, you know, see what's happening
Speaker:and hear the discussions. And when we contacted the
Speaker:organizers, telling them that we're interested in the online pass.
Speaker:Of course, they just show us the price list and they said, okay, figure it
Speaker:out if it works for you or not. Yeah. And meanwhile, they just called us
Speaker:back like 2 days after the call and started convincing us
Speaker:that we need to come and that we're a perfect match for them, for
Speaker:their startup showcase, and that it's going to be
Speaker:brilliant for everybody, for them, for us, for the guests. And
Speaker:I thought, okay, like, If they are thinking it's a great idea, then for sure
Speaker:it is. I have to trust them. And in fact, I wasn't disappointed. Okay.
Speaker:Set some context here. Where's home for you? So,
Speaker:it's Warsaw, Poland. It's my home city. Okay.
Speaker:And did you— born and raised there? Yes, I was born and raised here.
Speaker:So, I've been living here literally since forever.
Speaker:What's your favorite part of the city? Probably the city
Speaker:center, I would say. Okay. And not traditionally the old
Speaker:town because it's pretty small, but the modern parts of the
Speaker:city center. Now Warsaw, it's been changing a lot since
Speaker:like decades or 2 and became really beautiful
Speaker:and vibrant city. Still, it's not huge. So you have
Speaker:this really very nice feeling. You are not overwhelmed by amount of
Speaker:people, but still there's a very good vibe here. Have you ever been?
Speaker:No, I've never been. I have— actually, my ex-wife has been. She had to
Speaker:go there for work and she came back and she actually got me a t-shirt.
Speaker:So, I do have one and I've heard good things about it. I think it's
Speaker:one of those cities that, you know, people might think they know a lot about,
Speaker:or maybe, you know, I grew up in the '80s, so maybe people have a
Speaker:different perspective of it. But what do you think is the thing that most people
Speaker:don't realize about Warsaw? That it's very modern.
Speaker:Yeah, okay. It is. In fact, it is And also
Speaker:very open to change, very open-minded. Like for
Speaker:example, we have one of the most big vegan scene
Speaker:when it comes to restaurants. Okay. So nobody would normally
Speaker:guess that. Yeah. We're a little bit traditional country, traditional
Speaker:region, but in fact we are very open-minded and
Speaker:future-oriented. And that's where you studied
Speaker:university as well? Yes. This is— I studied psychology. Okay.
Speaker:And in fact, my dream was to be a scientist.
Speaker:So after I graduated from psychology, I stayed at the
Speaker:university for a couple of years. I did my PhD and I was an
Speaker:academic as a psychologist. What made you want to go into psychology?
Speaker:It's hard to say because since high school, I just knew.
Speaker:I just knew I want to go to psychology. And everybody was thinking about,
Speaker:okay, what books did you read or something? What makes you
Speaker:do that? In fact, I was always very curious in humans
Speaker:and in all our motivations, why we do what we
Speaker:do, why we make decisions. For me, it was extremely,
Speaker:extremely interesting and also since forever. So
Speaker:it was a very easy choice for me. I didn't have this situation that I
Speaker:wanted 4 faculties and I didn't know which one I should pick.
Speaker:How has studying psychology been helpful for you in your career?
Speaker:Oh, a lot. It may sound surprising because I end
Speaker:up at an agtech company. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's not a
Speaker:clear path from one to another. Probably if somebody would tell
Speaker:me a decade ago that I would end up as a co-founder and
Speaker:CEO of innovative agtech product,
Speaker:probably I would think this person is insane and I would start laughing.
Speaker:But there is a story behind it, how it all unfolded this way.
Speaker:But psychology is helping me a lot every single day, I would say,
Speaker:because I was specializing in customer behavior,
Speaker:business psychology, economic psychology. So how we do make financial
Speaker:decisions, why do we invest, why do we spend, and also in work psychology.
Speaker:So I was learning a lot how to manage teams, organize the
Speaker:workflow, motivate people, how to give feedback, how not to give
Speaker:feedback. Yeah. All those things. So for me, the transition from
Speaker:science to business was a beautiful opportunity to
Speaker:see how those, all the things I was learning and also
Speaker:at the next level I was teaching to my students really work in
Speaker:real life. And it's really been very
Speaker:changing experience for me. It shaped me a lot and it's helping me
Speaker:all the time. So talk a little bit about your journey as we'll get
Speaker:into this, the origins of Nangatech, but before Nangatech
Speaker:outside, once you left university, You know, where did you think you were going to
Speaker:be working and where did you end up? And then talk a little bit about
Speaker:your experiences there. So, yes, at some point I had
Speaker:this feeling that although I enjoyed being a scientist a lot,
Speaker:especially the lecturing part and doing the research part, I thought
Speaker:that maybe not all the parts of being a scientist are a perfect match for
Speaker:me. And after I quit science, I ended up as
Speaker:a co-creator of a small private equity real estate
Speaker:fund. So, something totally, totally different. But it was a great
Speaker:experience for me because I was in charge of creating teams there.
Speaker:So, I was attracting talent, creating teams,
Speaker:organizing all the work, also working with the investors. So,
Speaker:the psychological— the background from business psychology helped me a
Speaker:lot there. So, it was a great journey there. Yeah, no, you were
Speaker:just talking about the experience you had in the company. The time you had in
Speaker:those other businesses helped provide you with a good foundation for business.
Speaker:For business, yes. And it was amazing. It was really amazing. It was
Speaker:a great opportunity for me to see how I
Speaker:perform in a business world, because I know how I do perform as a
Speaker:scientist, and it's a totally different environment. So it was always
Speaker:so great because of that. What did you learn about yourself?
Speaker:Oh, it's a long process, Hari.
Speaker:But still, we are getting back to psychology. Because studying
Speaker:psychology, when you are studying psychology, you're reading books,
Speaker:reading all the theories and case studies, you have to reflect
Speaker:about yourself all the time. So in general,
Speaker:it truly helps with raising awareness.
Speaker:And I learned a lot about myself from psychology, I guess.
Speaker:And also— Interesting. The fact that you need to, you have different
Speaker:classes and sometimes you also interview other
Speaker:people, observe other people, you carry out research, but always
Speaker:with people. So, you keep on thinking about them, and it also
Speaker:helps— it helped me a lot to think about myself. Do I
Speaker:behave in the same way, or do I do something differently?
Speaker:So, I guess it's still psychology. Yeah, it's interesting
Speaker:because it's an important foundation, especially— and it's one of those
Speaker:skills that you can use everywhere, like in family life and business
Speaker:life and meeting new people. And also understanding
Speaker:people's motivations, I think, is really important, especially in business
Speaker:and especially When working with partners, and I'm sure some of the
Speaker:other work that we're going to be talking about pretty soon. But I think it's
Speaker:almost like a skill set most people probably should have and don't realize
Speaker:they need to improve. Yes, I agree with your point of view.
Speaker:It helps a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot understanding other people. But
Speaker:also, it helps a lot when you understand yourself. And
Speaker:maybe when, you know, something is happening at the moment, I'm
Speaker:just being myself, and I just don't reflect a lot. But
Speaker:then after a meeting, for example, I can sit and
Speaker:reflect, okay, I did that because I was afraid or I didn't
Speaker:know what to say, or I was too self-confident or whatever.
Speaker:So also it helps me a lot to see myself and to also
Speaker:align to situation. Should I be more
Speaker:supportive or should I be more straightforward maybe
Speaker:to somebody? So, and it also helps, I guess, people who are
Speaker:sitting with me. If they are my colleagues or partners or
Speaker:future customers, but I understand them better
Speaker:thanks to the fact that I understand better myself. Yeah, that's
Speaker:important. And that feels like it's something that will never
Speaker:end, like this self-improvement, this drive to
Speaker:continue to be better, to continue to learn more about yourself. I'm— I
Speaker:myself am like trying to learn more, a little bit something new
Speaker:every day. Like self-development is something that's really important for me. And it feels
Speaker:like that's one of those things that I'll be doing for the rest of my
Speaker:life. There is no end in this process.
Speaker:What could be frustrating for some of the people that they're never done and
Speaker:never finished, that we're never a finished project. But this is, I
Speaker:guess, for me, this is extremely, extremely beautiful that we are not finished
Speaker:projects. And there's always path we can unfold. And
Speaker:there's always ways in which we can improve. This is extremely beautiful.
Speaker:So talk to me about the origin story for Nanga Tech. Like, where did the
Speaker:idea come from? And, you know, who were you talking about it with? And,
Speaker:you know, how did it start? Okay, so it
Speaker:started with me coming to my family business. So I
Speaker:quit the real estate business and I decided, okay, maybe
Speaker:it's time for me to join my family business. My
Speaker:dad's been an entrepreneur for almost 50 years. He created
Speaker:from scratch a really successful business. He's a
Speaker:plastic container manufacturer, pretty well known in Poland and in our region
Speaker:as well. So he has a big factory. And in fact, it was his
Speaker:dream that his daughters, me and my sister, one day that we'll
Speaker:come and join him and help him with the company. But being
Speaker:honest, for many years, I wasn't prepared for that
Speaker:mentally, especially. Like, for me, the vision of working
Speaker:with my family was close to a nightmare.
Speaker:I thought mixing family life with work life is a recipe for
Speaker:disaster. Too much tension, too much emotion. And
Speaker:I was thinking that it cannot be a good experience, but probably I was
Speaker:thinking this way because I was in my 20s, but being in my 40s,
Speaker:my point of view changed and it became clear that nothing is black or white.
Speaker:So— That's true. It could be a disaster. But it could also be
Speaker:many other things. But you never know until you try, right? Yes, that's right.
Speaker:So I was thinking that I do have some skills that could
Speaker:be very beneficial for my father's company, the whole psychological
Speaker:background. And also the fact I do have a fresh outlook.
Speaker:I'm new to the industry, new to the company as well. I've been
Speaker:working in different places, in different environments. I learned a lot. So
Speaker:for sure, I can bring many things to the table. And I thought, okay, I
Speaker:will do it. Let's see. Let's see how this project will unfold. And in
Speaker:fact, it was way better decision than I was thinking it would be. So this
Speaker:is great. And this is what led me to creating Nangatec, in
Speaker:fact, because we are a spinoff from this main company, our
Speaker:family company. And what's the link between plastic and
Speaker:nanobubbles? Because that's also totally not clear.
Speaker:Yes. And people usually are curious how it all happened. So in fact,
Speaker:plastic does have a very bad reputation. We know it all. But in fact, the
Speaker:production of it could be pretty environmentally friendly. And
Speaker:at my father's company, we've always been searching for
Speaker:ecological ways, improvements. It's a very modern factory.
Speaker:And at some point, engineers were searching for ways to
Speaker:optimize the procedure of cooling the production
Speaker:lines, something like that. Okay. And they came across nanobubbles. because they have
Speaker:extremely good properties when it comes to heat transfer. And when they
Speaker:start learning, they really got excited about nanobubbles as a phenomenon.
Speaker:And they start talking with everybody like, wow, we discovered that! Would you
Speaker:like to hear? And when I started to get involved
Speaker:myself, I started just reading about it out of curiosity, because
Speaker:nanobubbles are just a pretty appealing story that, you know, they exist in
Speaker:nature, nobody believed in them, but now people, scientists do
Speaker:believe in them. It's a huge discovery. They have great potential. So
Speaker:when I started reading about them, I had this thought in my head that
Speaker:even if one-third of things I'm reading about are true, this is
Speaker:going to be huge. And we need to try it. And that's how it
Speaker:happened. How far back does the history of or the discovery
Speaker:of nanobubbles go? You mean scientific discovery? Yeah.
Speaker:So probably it started around the '80s.
Speaker:Okay. But not till 2 decades ago, there
Speaker:weren't any devices to really measure them, observe them and
Speaker:see how they behave. So the science is really looking
Speaker:into nanobubbles only for like 20 years probably right now. Interesting.
Speaker:Okay, so now you've discovered, or the scientists at the company
Speaker:have come across the nanobubbles and seen that there's some benefits in
Speaker:there. You're doing some discovery yourself, you're investigating what could be the
Speaker:potential uses for these nanobubbles. And so what did you
Speaker:discover? So that it has many uses. In fact,
Speaker:we decided that we'll dedicate our product to agriculture as
Speaker:it has very many beneficials to plant cultivation. And there
Speaker:are also very some strategic reasons to do so as well.
Speaker:Because with nanobubbles, it all depends on the gas you are using. So
Speaker:you can make a liquid biogenic when you use oxygen, what we are doing
Speaker:for the plants, but it could be biocidal if you use ozone. It could
Speaker:surface clean the surfaces. So It has very wide
Speaker:potential. Yeah. And so you said you decided to look at the
Speaker:approaches and the uses in agriculture. What made you want to
Speaker:do that? Curiosity,
Speaker:really. I was in this amazing situation that I
Speaker:did have resources to create a team of technologists and biotechnologists.
Speaker:And at the beginning, being honest, we were just having fun. Maybe you shouldn't
Speaker:tell it to my father because probably he wouldn't like this
Speaker:part of just having fun. with the family resources, but
Speaker:that's the truth. That's the truth. So it was amazing
Speaker:journey of experimenting all the time. And
Speaker:because there wasn't very strict plan what we're going to do.
Speaker:So there were no deadlines, no pressure, no investors
Speaker:waiting for the outcomes. Yeah. So we're really for 10
Speaker:or 12 months, we're just playing with the technology,
Speaker:seeing what we can do, how we can improve it. when we do get
Speaker:results, when we don't, because that's the process of experimenting. Like you fail
Speaker:1,000 times to understand just a
Speaker:little piece of the puzzles. So that's how it all
Speaker:started. Right. Like, it's incredible,
Speaker:I think. But then when we get, when we reach some point, so we
Speaker:knew that, okay, we do have technology, we know how to do it. We
Speaker:learned a lot and we have these great outcomes. we just cannot
Speaker:waste it. Like we say, okay, end of fun. Let's move on to
Speaker:something else. Yeah. So we decided that we
Speaker:did so much and we discovered so much, accomplished so much
Speaker:that we're supposed to make it a product and offer it
Speaker:to other people so they could really take a benefit because just having fun,
Speaker:it's great, but we could do way much more. And this is a
Speaker:very impactful solution. for the whole industry. And
Speaker:then that was the point when I felt the mission. Okay, there's way
Speaker:more than fun. There's a mission there, and probably pretty important one.
Speaker:When did you realize that you had a
Speaker:product, and what were the early challenges in
Speaker:describing this service or this offering or the benefits
Speaker:to potential clients? Like, those— obviously everyone knows in business, those
Speaker:early customers are the toughest because You know, you have to convince them to
Speaker:give you a shot to try something that, you know, probably hasn't been
Speaker:proven or hasn't been tried before. And you cannot see it with
Speaker:your bare eyes. That was my— one of my biggest worries, that
Speaker:we are offering something, we are telling people it will
Speaker:work really well for them, and they even cannot see it. We're creating
Speaker:bubbles that are so small that the water looks the same for people,
Speaker:and we're charging money for that. So, I was
Speaker:really worried about this part that in the States
Speaker:it's different. The nanobubbles are pretty, maybe not well
Speaker:known, but people from the industry know the phenomena and know how nanobubbles
Speaker:can be used. But in Europe, situation is different. It's not well known
Speaker:almost at all here. So, there is very low awareness of
Speaker:nanobubble existence. So, I was really thinking that this is, as you just
Speaker:mentioned, that this is going to be one of my biggest challenges. So
Speaker:convince people that I do really have something for them that
Speaker:they could benefit and could be interesting for them. And I was in shock, being
Speaker:honest, Hari, because people started selling my product
Speaker:to me. For example, our biotechnologists were searching for
Speaker:partners for pilot studies. And they were also worried that
Speaker:they will have to make plenty of calls, explain a lot, people will hang
Speaker:up on them and things like that. And I'm always trying to
Speaker:give people all the good vibes and good energy. And I was saying, okay, you
Speaker:need to probably make 100 conversations. And if you will make 100
Speaker:conversations, I promise you we'll have 5 partners. And
Speaker:they were like, okay, okay, it's doable. We can have 100 conversations. That's a good
Speaker:assignment for an engineer because it's math, right? They just have to be like, okay,
Speaker:it's clear. 100. There's a goal. Yeah.
Speaker:But in fact, probably they did something like 15 calls. Yeah. And
Speaker:from 15 cold calls, just were calling through random growers,
Speaker:we got 7 partners for pilot studies. Wow. So really,
Speaker:people were extremely interested. And I guess partially
Speaker:it's because of us, but also partially it's because of the oxygen itself.
Speaker:Oxygen as a gas has very beautiful connotation because
Speaker:it's life. We breathe with oxygen. There's oxygen therapy for people.
Speaker:So people have this feeling that this is something safe, first of all,
Speaker:and this is something that has to do with health. Yes. So even if they
Speaker:aren't sure it will work at their farm or not,
Speaker:they know it's safe and probably there are big chances it will work for
Speaker:them. Yeah, I feel like it's like the only challenge,
Speaker:or I think the way you probably sold it is that there's only an
Speaker:upside. It doesn't seem like there would be much of a downside to at least
Speaker:try it. I think that was one of the selling points, I would imagine. Yes,
Speaker:there's no risk. Okay, they can risk a little of their time,
Speaker:Because they get involved with us, but there are not other risks.
Speaker:And also I was pretty surprised because I was thinking that agriculture is
Speaker:kind of traditional industry, especially, you know, the outdoor
Speaker:one. And I was very, very surprised that it's not. Many people are very
Speaker:open-minded. They are searching for innovations, that they want to
Speaker:become more ecological in their actions. At
Speaker:the end of the day, that they do really care about their plants. Like,
Speaker:I was more also focusing on business side of the
Speaker:product, like how much they can save on
Speaker:fertilizers, how much the outputs will grow.
Speaker:But many, many of them, many of the growers are really thinking of
Speaker:the general well-being of the plants, that it will help their
Speaker:plants and they will stay healthy. And for them, it's like a baseline,
Speaker:like healthy plants, healthy farmers, something like that.
Speaker:Yeah. I was really glad to see such an attitude,
Speaker:that they are not only, you know, business concentrated, money concentrated,
Speaker:thinking about statistics, but they were always really thinking
Speaker:about what they can do to improve their crops. What were
Speaker:those early calls like from the engineers? Like, how are they selling
Speaker:the product, or how are they describing the benefits? And maybe,
Speaker:you know, an overview for the listener of exactly what
Speaker:benefits the farmers are seeing from using this technology?
Speaker:In general, maybe I'll start with the benefits. So we
Speaker:can increase the efficiency of crops up to 20%. Okay.
Speaker:The plants in general grow better, because the oxygen is a
Speaker:biogenic gas. And when we deliver more oxygen to the plant root
Speaker:systems, just the plants grow way better. They grow
Speaker:faster, and they grow bigger. So this is one of the
Speaker:most visible outcome of the technology. Also, what's
Speaker:super important is that the health of the root system, that
Speaker:we can suppress pathogens with oxygen. And especially in
Speaker:hydroponics, very often there are situations that the roots just
Speaker:suffocate, there's not enough oxygen. So our solution is just a
Speaker:perfect fix for the situation as we deliver oxygen.
Speaker:It's like a natural cure for the problems. And in fact, the
Speaker:problems are all the kinds of root rots, causes huge production
Speaker:losses. So prevention of these diseases is also very
Speaker:important for the farmers. Now let's go to present time.
Speaker:Like, how is the acceptance now? Who
Speaker:are you looking for to partner with? And, you know, are
Speaker:there aspects to the product that you're offering, or are you just looking to
Speaker:get into different markets? Yes, we are going to the market
Speaker:next year. So now we are just like pre-selling our products.
Speaker:We're searching for distributors, active
Speaker:distributors, when we're always searching for people who can
Speaker:collaborate for research programs as well. What's been the
Speaker:biggest challenge for you to get the word out about this? And then
Speaker:also, what's involved for a farm
Speaker:to implement this solution? Like, what do they need to do? Not a
Speaker:lot. They just need to buy our product. No, really, it's
Speaker:extremely easy. And also, it was very, very important for me. that it was
Speaker:designed this way, that there's a really low cost for the
Speaker:farmers of implementation. So this is in fact plug and play.
Speaker:So it's super easy to be implemented. And everyone who has an irrigation
Speaker:system can take benefits of it. And it's easily scalable. It comes in
Speaker:different sizes when it comes to the amount of water that needs to be treated.
Speaker:So it's super easy. It's super easy. It's plug and
Speaker:play. Yeah. You press the on button and you start your
Speaker:oxygenation journey. Yeah. And then in terms of
Speaker:maintenance or support, how is that handled by the farm?
Speaker:There is almost no maintenance at all. They do have to do some cleaning,
Speaker:but in fact there's no maintenance at all. The devices have
Speaker:oxygen generators, so they generate oxygen from the air.
Speaker:Farmers don't need to do almost anything. Okay. And so how big is the
Speaker:company now? How big is the team? It's not big at all. It's
Speaker:up to 10 people. But in fact, we're using many
Speaker:resources of our main company. So we do have
Speaker:many advisors. We use knowledge and skills of many
Speaker:engineers from our other company as well. So that's the reason we
Speaker:can stay small till now. And so
Speaker:how were you thinking about when you had the opportunity to present at Indoor AgTech
Speaker:NYC? Like, was that the first time you had given a presentation
Speaker:about Nagatech? It was. Okay. In fact, it was.
Speaker:And how did you prepare for that and what was the response?
Speaker:How did I prepare? Okay, I'll be honest with you. I watched
Speaker:some people doing pitches on YouTube. That's good. That's how you learn. Yeah.
Speaker:That's how you learned. I contacted some of my friends who are CEOs
Speaker:themselves, then they were pitching a lot so they could give me some, you know,
Speaker:guidelines and help me a little bit with what I'm supposed to say and how,
Speaker:what works, what does not. And I didn't have lots of time. I know, short.
Speaker:So I just tried to do my best. And what was the response afterwards?
Speaker:Many people were really interested. And they were surprised there is a
Speaker:European company doing nanobubbles because they never heard of us.
Speaker:And for me, it wasn't surprising that they never heard of us because it was
Speaker:the first time we were presenting our product on a global event. But
Speaker:they were really, really interested. And also some of the people were
Speaker:interested in other properties of nanobubbles. Like, for
Speaker:example, safe non-chemical disinfection as well. And so
Speaker:are you looking at figuring out where the
Speaker:opportunities are for these other applications of nanobubbles and then trying to figure
Speaker:out how to go after those different markets? Probably we'll go to
Speaker:different markets as well, and probably some of this process will just happen
Speaker:naturally, as many people right now are just reaching out to us
Speaker:because they want to test if the nanobubbles will work in their industry.
Speaker:And like, for example, many animal breeders came to us
Speaker:recently. And also it's, I'm very surprised because we are
Speaker:not overselling what we're doing. So we're very honest and we're saying we didn't test
Speaker:our solution on animals. There are scientific papers
Speaker:saying that it will work, but we're totally honest and
Speaker:clear. We didn't test that. And people are just really okay with that. They say,
Speaker:okay, we know, we know. That's fine. That's fine. I will test it.
Speaker:What's the application for animal breeders with nanobubbles?
Speaker:So also the health of the animals could be improved.
Speaker:They're supposed to be less prone to diseases. Oh, it makes sense.
Speaker:Yeah. There are some papers showing that
Speaker:also they gain weight faster and they get mature faster.
Speaker:So a little bit like with plants, probably. But in
Speaker:general, people are searching for solutions to prevent the
Speaker:diseases and to prevent the amount of antibiotics they're using.
Speaker:This is a big worry for the animal farmers right now. And many of
Speaker:them, they would like to become ecological farmers. And that's the reason
Speaker:they're searching this ecological solution, they can improve the
Speaker:health of their animals. Is this the first time you're the
Speaker:CEO of a company? Yes, it is. How's that been?
Speaker:Really good. Because I probably, I do have this natural
Speaker:tendency to lead. Okay. That's good. So
Speaker:in fact, I guess it really works well for me. It's very
Speaker:challenging, you know, taking all the responsibility
Speaker:and really owning your decisions. It's important.
Speaker:That's really important, especially that the field is new to me.
Speaker:We've never done anything with agriculture whatsoever. We're outside of the
Speaker:industry. It has some very strong benefits because we
Speaker:do have fresh outlook. We think out of the box. Yeah, that's true. But the
Speaker:fact is we were never in the box.
Speaker:So there are many things that are new to us and
Speaker:we need to learn. And that's the reason why we're always searching for meaningful
Speaker:collaborations and partnerships with growers, because we learn a
Speaker:lot from them. And this is very important for us to hear what they're
Speaker:saying, how their work looks like, what they're searching for, what
Speaker:are their worries. what is a good thing according to the farmers,
Speaker:not according to us, because for us it's obvious, yes, it's our technology, but what
Speaker:they are really searching and what they are emphasizing. So
Speaker:for me, being a CEO, it was a very empowering as well
Speaker:position to be in. And I think it's a very good experience and
Speaker:I will stay CEO for sure. I have a marketing
Speaker:tagline. You can change that to thinking outside the bubble.
Speaker:Okay, that's a good one. My marketing
Speaker:brain is always working, so I'm always thinking of these ideas. So it's
Speaker:interesting because, you know, when you do speak to people in the industry, have you
Speaker:had a chance outside of that conference to connect with
Speaker:more people in the agtech world? Yes, yes, we did.
Speaker:In fact, we are a part of many programs for agtech
Speaker:startups. For example, EIT. This is a
Speaker:European Institute of Innovation and Technology, and they do have
Speaker:many programs for startups on different levels. They're
Speaker:trying to support them, also do lots of networking between
Speaker:active startup growers, all kinds of partners and investors.
Speaker:So yes, I did have a chance to meet a little bit in this industry.
Speaker:And being honest, especially the vertical farming part, the indoor,
Speaker:agtech, this is amazing world. It's been a fascinating couple
Speaker:of years just having all these interviews with these CEOs and founders to hear
Speaker:their origin stories, their inspiration, and their motivation.
Speaker:And it's interesting because everyone seems to have like the same
Speaker:desire to, you know, do better for the planet through indoor
Speaker:farming. And I've noticed that as a consistent trend. Yes, I guess
Speaker:the whole modern agriculture just magnetizes
Speaker:all people that are very, very open-minded and they're super
Speaker:innovative and they really want to change something. Because probably
Speaker:when you don't want to change anything, you just stay with something way more traditional.
Speaker:And don't get into all those troubles of trying to
Speaker:do something innovative. What's the agtech vertical farming
Speaker:space look like in Poland? It's pretty small. It's developing well, I
Speaker:would say. Currently, probably we have like 3 or 4 farms.
Speaker:So that's not a lot. And all of them are pretty small.
Speaker:But I'm sure, like, I know all the co-founders and CEOs of those
Speaker:farms. As you just mentioned, they're just amazing, amazing people.
Speaker:really goal-oriented. They really want to
Speaker:make vertical farming big in Poland, and I'm sure that
Speaker:most of them will succeed. So it's developing pretty, pretty fast
Speaker:right now. I imagine the wake-up call that happened as a
Speaker:result of COVID really, you know,
Speaker:opened people's eyes and companies' eyes to the dependency
Speaker:on supply chains and having local access to food. We're
Speaker:seeing this in so many different remote areas. I'm actually going to be
Speaker:flying to Dubai at the end of this week for the AgriME
Speaker:conference, and it's obviously an example of an extreme climate
Speaker:that is seeing the need to have access to food. Singapore
Speaker:imports, I think the number is maybe 80 to 90% of their
Speaker:produce. And I'm wondering if, you know, more and more
Speaker:people are becoming aware and what you're seeing or what you've come across in
Speaker:terms of This importance of having fresh food here in the States,
Speaker:we call them food deserts, these areas that don't have access to fresh food.
Speaker:And I'm wondering how, as you've become more involved in this industry,
Speaker:if this is something that's becoming more and more present for you.
Speaker:For sure, partially it is, but in general, we don't face
Speaker:such big climate issues in Poland. Like, climate is moderate,
Speaker:so there is still plenty of land that can be used for agriculture.
Speaker:But I guess what's more important for us, as I mentioned before, talking
Speaker:about people from Warsaw and from Poland in general, we are becoming
Speaker:really aware when it comes to ecology. So there
Speaker:are lots of vegans right now in Poland. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:And, you know, it goes together with different things. So vegans not only
Speaker:don't eat animal products, but they also think about
Speaker:environment a lot. So they want to buy local products.
Speaker:And for them, vertical farming, it's great because it means no
Speaker:chemistry, no pesticides, fresh product, no deliveries,
Speaker:no carbon dioxide emission, so on and so on. So
Speaker:for us, this is a very important motivation. Not only the climate
Speaker:changes, because here locally, it's not a huge problem, probably
Speaker:it will be in 3 or 4 decades. But now it's more
Speaker:about environment. Makes sense. What's a tough
Speaker:question you've had to ask yourself recently? Other people
Speaker:ask me tough questions because now I'm
Speaker:really into mindfulness, being grounded. So
Speaker:I really try to clear my head when I'm alone. I'm just really
Speaker:trying to stay focused and think as little as possible
Speaker:just to have the resources when I'm working. That makes sense.
Speaker:Yeah. It helps a lot because if you don't stop and your head is
Speaker:buzzing with thoughts all the time, it's a lot. It's a lot.
Speaker:It can cause a burnout. I've been more consistent with my
Speaker:meditation practice every morning. So I take the time to do the meditation.
Speaker:I have a new journal. So now I write 2 pages every day on
Speaker:the journal and do intentions. And I think everything,
Speaker:especially business owners and people who are busy, and I have like an
Speaker:overactive mind. So the minute I wake up, I'm thinking
Speaker:about the day already. So I think to your point, it's very helpful to
Speaker:have a practice that helps calm your mind, especially business
Speaker:owners and people who are in your position, you know, you have to have
Speaker:something to balance that or else you lose sight of really like
Speaker:your mental health, which is really something that a lot of people are talking about
Speaker:nowadays. Yes, and sometimes people just tell me, I don't have
Speaker:time for that. And my response is, you just need to have
Speaker:time for that. It's like so crucial for your well-being and
Speaker:also for how you perform at work then that we should have time for that.
Speaker:Yes, but just answering your question, sorry, about what's one of the
Speaker:toughest questions I'm asking myself, probably it's always about
Speaker:people. If I will find all the right people I need. So
Speaker:searching for people, building team, it's always a very difficult
Speaker:journey. How are you thinking about that problem? That I
Speaker:will solve it. And that
Speaker:those people will just come. Yeah, they will come one day. I just need to
Speaker:be patient and I will find them. Or they will find me, like it works
Speaker:both ways. But in general, it's a problem for, I guess, all the
Speaker:entrepreneurs. But when you are a startup and you are not well
Speaker:known, where we are no name in fact, then it's even way more difficult
Speaker:to find the right people. And our task is super ambitious. We need
Speaker:people who know a lot, have lots of experience, and
Speaker:also are willing to work within innovation. It's a very
Speaker:specific environment and it's not for everybody. Usually people say, oh
Speaker:great, yes, I'm all in. But then after
Speaker:a month or two, I see that it's really not for them, that they do
Speaker:have a different mindset and some kind of less
Speaker:complex environment would be a way better fit for them. It's a
Speaker:different mindset and a different way of thinking. The entrepreneurial
Speaker:mindset, the ability to be comfortable with
Speaker:change and to, you know, realize, especially from a startup
Speaker:mentality, that every day could be different and you could be asked to wear many
Speaker:hats. And you have to be comfortable with that approach. And some people just like
Speaker:to show up into their desk and be given their assignment and do the
Speaker:same thing every day. And that's just, you know, the way they are and the
Speaker:way their mind works. And they like the discipline of doing the same thing
Speaker:every day. And then there's some people who like the adventure and the challenge of
Speaker:figuring problems out. And I think what you're looking for is more of the latter
Speaker:to help you in the growth of this business. Yes, exactly.
Speaker:The first one just They don't enjoy working with me. I would put it this
Speaker:way because they think that I'm demanding.
Speaker:I always keep on asking questions and I do have new ideas because
Speaker:I really like the R&D part. I really love it.
Speaker:So I'm always full of ideas, what we can do, what we can improve, what
Speaker:we can test. And very often there are just people who
Speaker:say, no, no, this cannot be done. And I'm like,
Speaker:like, why? Just tell me why. Yeah. I know in some sense I'm ignorant. I'm
Speaker:a psychologist. So probably I'm not aware of something. But I really learned
Speaker:that usually people say that something cannot be done because they're
Speaker:afraid they're not able to do it. And I'm
Speaker:always telling all my team that not knowing, it's
Speaker:okay. It's fine. They can say, I don't know. I don't know the answer. And
Speaker:I'm totally fine with that. But this is a different mindset. When I say, I
Speaker:don't know. Okay. I will go and I will check. I will read. I will
Speaker:call somebody. I will do experiment. And when you say, no, no,
Speaker:this cannot be done. It's like end of the story. Point. That's true. It's a
Speaker:big difference between saying this can't be done and I don't know how to do
Speaker:it. I'm gonna find out to see if maybe there's another way
Speaker:to tackle this problem. It is. Very interesting mindset. And
Speaker:we're working on— I have another site called Vertical Farming Jobs. We're trying
Speaker:to ask people who are interested in looking for jobs in the industry to fill
Speaker:out what we're calling like a collective, like a vertical farming collective. So I can
Speaker:send you the information afterwards. So, companies can post jobs there, and
Speaker:as well as talent that's looking, companies can sign up
Speaker:for a monthly membership to be sent any new people that are
Speaker:in— coming into the industry and are looking and are submitting their resumes as well.
Speaker:That's a great idea because it's just like a totally new
Speaker:sector, totally new kinds of jobs. Amazing.
Speaker:So, what's something you've changed your mind about recently?
Speaker:Being honest, I don't know. Because I'm the one who is in
Speaker:charge of focusing everybody on the goal.
Speaker:So because, as I said, there are many potential things we can do with
Speaker:nanobubbles, we're experimenting a lot. So I'm the one
Speaker:saying, okay, okay, okay, come on, that's our mission,
Speaker:agriculture, do you remember? So probably usually
Speaker:people do have more visions to do something else, and
Speaker:I'm the one just doing the discipline. I'm like a bad cop,
Speaker:probably. I ruin the party sometimes. Well, it's important
Speaker:to have that discipline and the vision
Speaker:of where you see the potentials, because I think what you're seeing is
Speaker:the opportunities that exist in this space. And I think you know that this
Speaker:technology can be beneficial, so it makes sense to really be
Speaker:focused and see where are the opportunities. Where can you
Speaker:connect? Where do you need to go? Who do you need to have conversations with?
Speaker:And I think it feels like that's an assignment that's going to be
Speaker:keeping you busy for some time now. Oh, for sure. For sure.
Speaker:That's a lot of work. As we come to a close on the conversation,
Speaker:I'm curious how you're thinking about maybe, you know, the next
Speaker:6 to 12 months. You know, if you have a roadmap where
Speaker:you think you'll be focusing your efforts in terms of the
Speaker:growth for Nanga Tech. So as I told you before, we're going
Speaker:to the market next year. So we're really focusing on that and
Speaker:preparing that to launch our product and to introduce
Speaker:it to our local market and to our region first. So that's
Speaker:probably the plan for next 12 months. And so you've
Speaker:listened to a couple of these interviews, a lot of your fellow peers
Speaker:listen as well. So there's a lot of folks in the industry that listen to
Speaker:this podcast. So I want to give you the opportunity To have the stage
Speaker:similar to your presentation, but for this audience, you know, is there
Speaker:a message? Is there anything that you'd like to share? Is there an ask? Is
Speaker:there something you want to make a request for your colleagues in
Speaker:this industry of vertical farming? Yeah, thank you. We're very
Speaker:open for all kinds of collaborations, and as we really
Speaker:want to know as much as possible about nanobubbles
Speaker:and how they can be beneficial to plant cultivation, And there are
Speaker:still many questions that aren't answered. At this point, we know a
Speaker:lot, but they interfere with many, many factors.
Speaker:So we're always searching for collaborations with partners
Speaker:who want to know more. And also people who
Speaker:create vertical farms as well. And are you planning to attend any
Speaker:upcoming conferences? I'm going to Lisbon next week.
Speaker:There's a venture summit about agtech, for example. Yeah, there's so
Speaker:many conferences coming up now and all across the globe. I see
Speaker:things in Africa and India. Like I said, I'll go to Dubai. Obviously
Speaker:everything that's happening in the States, it seems to be a lot of awareness in
Speaker:the space and a lot of companies entering. So it feels like a very exciting
Speaker:time to be in here, and I'm glad we had the opportunity to share your
Speaker:story. Yeah, thank you for that. So the best
Speaker:place to send people to learn more is nangatech.com.
Speaker:Anywhere else People should go to connect with you or the company? They could
Speaker:see our LinkedIn profile as well. Okay. So we'll make
Speaker:sure we have all those links in the show notes. And so if people are
Speaker:listening to this, you could look the details of this episode and they'll find ways
Speaker:to connect with you and learn more about Nankatech. Great.
Speaker:Magdalena, thank you so much for sharing your story. I really appreciate you staying up
Speaker:a little bit later to have this conversation. It was worth it.
Speaker:Thank you, Hari, for having me here today. Thanks again to Magdalena for coming on
Speaker:the show and sharing her story. As always, full show notes available at
Speaker:verticalfarmingpodcast.com. Special thanks to our Season
Speaker:6 title sponsor, Cultivated. If you're looking into a vertical farm and don't know where
Speaker:to start or which technology would suit your needs, reach out to them today. And
Speaker:best of all, as always, their service is free because they work on behalf of
Speaker:their partners. I saw that in action at AGRAME in Dubai earlier this
Speaker:year. Can't say enough good things about the team, and we're working on some
Speaker:closer partnerships in 2023, so stay tuned for that. You can learn
Speaker:more at cultivated.com, and that's spelled
Speaker:C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-E-D.com. Just leave out that last E.
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Speaker:read those out on future episodes. Okay, I gotta make sure I
Speaker:get you excited for next week's episode, which is actually going to be later this
Speaker:week since we're doing 2 this week. We have a great conversation with Nadun
Speaker:Hanayaka. I know I had promised that earlier, but we moved some of the episodes
Speaker:around. So this time for sure, Nadun Hanayaka, CEO of
Speaker:Gaia Australia, which will be out this Friday if you're listening
Speaker:to this in December 2022. But if not,
Speaker:it'll be out already and you can already listen to it. So as
Speaker:always, Thanks for everything you do to support this show. Here's to your health.
Speaker:Thanks for listening. To read the full show notes for this episode, which
Speaker:includes any links mentioned in the episode, as well as a full show
Speaker:transcription, visit verticalfarmingpodcast.com.
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