Shownotes
With activists and journalists being accosted and arrested across Canada last week - we thought it was time to reinforce that all cops are bastards (and tools of Capital) always. And that we can not, for a moment, make space for police responses to people trying to hold the powerful accountable.
We cover:
- Journalist Brandi Morin arrested covering an encampment eviction in Edmonton, and the use of Police to clear eight sites in frigid temperatures;
- The arrest of a certain right-wing journalist while trying to question Deputy Minister Chrystia Freeland - and what our collective response SHOULD have been;
- Toronto Police declare an area of the City off limits to Pro-Palestinian protestors saying its a threat to the local Jewish community; and,
- Ottawa Pro-Palestinian activists have been getting $490 fines from the City for breaking a noise by-law.
These open up discussions of police power and budgets, the criminalization of protests of any kind, the limiting of access to politicians and the attempts of the powerful of what is an acceptable protest.
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Transcripts
There is so much out there to get mad about. Social injustices, class warfare, continued
Speaker:colonization, the act of destruction of our planet by those focused on prophets and not
Speaker:people. We can find it overwhelming at times. The good news is there are equally as many,
Speaker:if not more, stories of people coming together and rising up against the forces at play. So
Speaker:the creators of Blueprints of Disruption have added a new weekly segment, Rival Rants, where
Speaker:we will unpack the stories that have us most riled up, share calls to action, and most importantly,
Speaker:celebrate resistance. Today we're ranting about cops. I mean, that's the simplest way to put
Speaker:it. I've got it. It feels like too many stories here sitting in front of me that are just from
Speaker:the last week or two across Canada. police forces, municipal police forces for the most part,
Speaker:absolutely just cracking down on protests, aiding in encampment evictions, arresting journalists,
Speaker:just really pissing us off. And it's tied in with so many of the other things that we have
Speaker:been talking about, whether it's the demonization of the pro-Palestinian movement or disruption
Speaker:in general. the overfunding of police forces and the general rise of fascism here in Canada.
Speaker:And yeah, we're going to run through some of the examples to keep you guys up to date, but
Speaker:it just opens up a whole bunch of discussion points that really has my blood boiling this
Speaker:week. Let's get into it. Edmonton. I mean, this is what really kind of sparked. the need for
Speaker:Santiago and I to talk about this because we're talking about encampment evictions quite a
Speaker:bit on the show and the use of security forces or police. But here in Edmonton, I mean, they
Speaker:were ruthless. They announced that they were going to clear eight different encampments,
Speaker:over a hundred people. And, you know, they tried to fight it through the courts. In the end,
Speaker:the cops and minus 20 weather. Minus 30 now. Minus 40 at nighttime two days after they had
Speaker:finished the very last encampment. With wind chill feels like minus 50 now even. Just to
Speaker:make you more mad while this was happening their mayor was on vacation in Hawaii. That opens
Speaker:another kind of discussion point where politicians just play games with people's lives. So he's
Speaker:in Hawaii, his police force is evicting people, they're arresting journalists on site. We'll
Speaker:get into that in a second. And they're going to have a council meeting to declare homelessness
Speaker:an emergency in responses, though, like they didn't play part and parcel of this decantment.
Speaker:Just going to bat back and forth with the province like it's somebody else's problem. And so,
Speaker:I mean, apparently Edmonton says they have the facilities. They're not quite at. full capacity,
Speaker:only 94% shelter capacity. So they say they can take everyone, but we've talked many times
Speaker:on the show before that shelters aren't for everybody. They're not designed for everybody.
Speaker:And so the reality is folks are gonna be out. But the point is the cops really, they arrested
Speaker:Brandi Morton. For folks who don't know, you know, maybe get to know Brandi Morton, she
Speaker:is an Edward Murrow award winner. You might've read her covering the Fairy Creek blockade.
Speaker:And even though she has done a multitude of pieces on protests and different situations
Speaker:like that, land offending, this is the first time in 13 years that she had ever been arrested.
Speaker:And from the accounts that I'm reading online where she has her firsthand accounts, I mean,
Speaker:she was shook. This was not something, even though she had witnessed, I'm sure, bullying
Speaker:and horrible police tactics as a journalist. she had never been treated that way. Reading
Speaker:her account and a few other people, I think that really points to the lack of respect journalists
Speaker:are getting from police or the distinction that they have, or in general, just the ability
Speaker:for people to challenge the status quo. And police are now, your tax dollars, your city
Speaker:budgets are going to, into funding this. And I think that was quite an alarming moment.
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, the whole thing. I mean, the fact that there's even Encampment evictions happening
Speaker:in this kind of weather conditions is already alarming but the crackdown on media trying
Speaker:to cover it is Just it's exactly what we were talking about in the recent episode on fascism,
Speaker:right? Showing that police are getting more and more comfortable with more and more authoritarian
Speaker:tactics This was someone who was there simply to cover not participating like they and they
Speaker:were not just moved out of the scene. They were taken in, they had their fingerprints taken,
Speaker:you know, they were properly arrested. As you mentioned, they're not new to this, like they've
Speaker:been around the block a few times. The Ferry Creek, we know what a disaster everything around
Speaker:Ferry Creek was. This is unprecedented and we're seeing it happen more and more. It's a trend.
Speaker:It's no longer enough
Speaker:an episode without mentioning it, of course, was happening in Gaza. Canada's complicitness
Speaker:there with regards to the murder of journalists and now the treatment of journalists back at
Speaker:home, it's not a disconnected thing. It's part of the same system. It's the same culture,
Speaker:the same philosophy, just in different forms here than there. It's not just the Edmonton
Speaker:police. We know the Toronto police have done this as well. And just as I'm preparing my
Speaker:notes to do this episode, we see in Vancouver at Oppenheimer Park, activists were arrested
Speaker:by Vancouver police when they were trying to protect the property of those being evicted.
Speaker:They call it a decantment. So we have another term to describe what we're seeing. And it's
Speaker:kind of scary that there's... I hate that. Lingo all built around the expulsion of people from
Speaker:tents in the winter. So it's not just journalists being arrested. It's also people that are trying
Speaker:to be good Samaritans, essentially. So Brandi, although she was offered the ability to move
Speaker:from the area, at the time the police had hands on with a community member, an indigenous community
Speaker:member of the encampment. And she felt like it was her duty to witness that as a journalist
Speaker:and to not be... put away, put aside. We're giving a lot of power to police to decide when,
Speaker:how, and where we can protest. This episode is going to be full of those examples. But
Speaker:I want to go back to something you said there, Santiago. You talked about the police getting
Speaker:more bold. And I think we have a responsibility there. So it's one thing to have a defund the
Speaker:police movement. But also earlier this week, there's a video that went semi-viral of a d***.
Speaker:I didn't know what term to use when I wrote this because I didn't want to insult you in
Speaker:your view of journalism, but also rebel news is what we're talking about. So a rebel news
Speaker:reporter walked up to Deputy Prime Minister Krista Freeland, one of my favorite politicians
Speaker:to hate, and he ended up getting shouldered by this cop. You know, presumably he's part
Speaker:of her security detail. Even if you didn't know who he was, he had a microphone. He was clearly
Speaker:asking a question. I could kind of see his creds around his neck. There's no way here security
Speaker:detail hadn't encountered him before. They knew exactly who he was and they didn't care. And
Speaker:they didn't even care. They were on camera like he almost looks square in the camera and says,
Speaker:I'm charging you with assault when, you know, he plants himself in the way of that reporter.
Speaker:So unless you put on the brakes real fast, you're. you're gonna end up bumping into him. And then
Speaker:with a straight face, tells him he's charging him with assault for that. So it wasn't just,
Speaker:you know, ignoring police. It was a really dirty tactic of, you know, suckering him into an
Speaker:assault charge. We shouldn't be surprised, right? Like anybody listening, we just talked about
Speaker:how Brandi was arrested. And I mean, we've told many, many stories of police brutality are
Speaker:out there, but what really pissed me off around this, other than I was already pissed off about
Speaker:the video, was the response to... From leftists, from people with defund the police in their
Speaker:friggin bios. I took so much heat for kind of condemning the police for doing that. I thought
Speaker:this is why police are bold. Not just why, there's a million reasons why, but surely we contribute
Speaker:it when we condone it when it happens to our political opponents. Yeah, that really bothered
Speaker:me personally, the response. And this is a situation where it, this, this does affect me as an individual
Speaker:personally because tolerating the actions of the police in this situation, it opens the
Speaker:door for the same thing to happen to me when I'm out in the field doing my work because
Speaker:as much as we view him, rightfully so, as a propagandist and question his legitimacy in
Speaker:terms of their journalistic output, which has no credibility in terms of any sort of fact.
Speaker:based reporting any sort of anything at all. Like it's rebel news, you know, we know what
Speaker:rebel news is. It doesn't change the fact that when they're out in the field with a microphone
Speaker:and a camera, they're journalists. There's no accreditation system in these situations. Anybody
Speaker:who goes with a microphone and a camera and is looking to report on a situation is a journalist.
Speaker:What he is a very, very bad journalist, a propagandist. but a journalist nonetheless. And that's an
Speaker:important distinction to make because they're gonna say the same things about people like
Speaker:me, you know? And so it puts me in the, we were just talking about the episode with Dimitri,
Speaker:you know, we were just talking about going in and asking Christia Freeland questions. It
Speaker:could have, like it literally could have been me in that situation. And it's not right. no
Speaker:matter what, no matter how piss poor of a journalist they are, it's not right to arrest people for
Speaker:this. It's not. We can criticize them in whatever way we want, but the use of police here is
Speaker:authoritarianism, which we stand against. Now, I know, for example, that he was funneling
Speaker:about concerns, but he didn't touch Garcia Freeland. They didn't ask him to move. They immediately
Speaker:went to arrest him and charged him with assault. What happened was completely unacceptable.
Speaker:And the response from fellow leftists, it's the same thing that happened during, you know,
Speaker:the freedom convoy, so-called, or whenever, you know, the right ends up running with police,
Speaker:which is far less often, but it does happen. And we see people cheer them on because they're
Speaker:not on our side. And what happens is, I mean, just like with the freedom convoy, we're seeing
Speaker:what's happening now at Avenue Road where protests are perfectly acceptable, protests are being
Speaker:criminalized. That is the result. There's no exceptions to be made here. When we say all
Speaker:cops are bastards, it's all cops are bastards. Fuck the police every single time. Why do people
Speaker:forget that consistently? Consistently, like something goes wrong and they want a police
Speaker:response in their favor. I think this is mostly white folks that do that. I'm gonna go out
Speaker:on a limb and say that because they just are so used to using police to solve their problems.
Speaker:Inherently, they know systemically, they know that it's an issue, but on a one-on-one basis,
Speaker:if it's helping them out, they're okay with it. And I'm not okay with that at all. And
Speaker:it's not just about looking hypocritical, what you do, you just hand fodder over to the right
Speaker:wing. You also give them permission to mock our journalists, folks like Brandy or heaven
Speaker:forbid Santiago getting pulled in for the work that he does. You open the door for that. You
Speaker:normalize these police responses. And just like Santiago said, just like the convoy and the
Speaker:use of the Emergency Act. simply because it was shutting down something that, you know,
Speaker:was very disruptive to a community. I understand that. But in the end, a lot of the things that
Speaker:we are going to do, like protesting out Melanie Jolie's house, is going to be disruptive to
Speaker:neighborhoods, maybe even neighborhoods that have Jewish people living in them. And we start
Speaker:just kind of opening these doors to say you can protest here but not here. You can protest
Speaker:like this. but not like that over and over and over again. And comments like, oh, that's just
Speaker:fashion, fashion violence is also completely incorrect. Rebel News surely contributes to
Speaker:the downfall of society. Okay, like there is no defending that trash. Absolutely. But if
Speaker:there is one way to build cross partisan, working class solidarity, surely it's with our experiences
Speaker:with police, poor folks. working class folks for the most part are going to buck up against
Speaker:police as it gets worse. We have different ways that we're going to go about it. Maybe we have
Speaker:different solutions, different reasons we'll take to the streets, but you've seen it. And
Speaker:we can't just keep opening the door for arrests, you know, requiring permits. And, you know,
Speaker:in the case that we're going to next annexing complete neighborhoods and making them. zones
Speaker:of exclusion for protests that then have like added layers of criminality built into them
Speaker:just arbitrarily decided by police. Yeah, I have to say like from pulling from my own personal
Speaker:experience here that sometimes I have been surprised in the past at people who I wouldn't consider
Speaker:on my side having a usefulness in a way you could say. I remember the time when I was at
Speaker:For John Tory's budget, you know, they kicked out the media so that they could arrest people
Speaker:who were there protesting people who? I'm not gonna say their names, but we would know them
Speaker:if I did There was two people from media who stayed behind there was me and there was a
Speaker:reporter or a cameraman from the Toronto Sun and The Toronto Sun is another organization
Speaker:that I would not consider to be of the benefit of society that I would not you know, I'm not
Speaker:allied with at all. I have heavy criticisms on the Sun, but the cameraman stayed behind,
Speaker:recorded, published the videos so that people could see what was going on. And he protected
Speaker:me during that time as well. And as well as, you know, one of the, my professor for newspaper
Speaker:class, who was a Toronto Sun reporter for decades, I would assume that he would be somebody who...
Speaker:would not be on my side, yet he made me editor-in-chief of the paper and every single edition, the
Speaker:front cover had a protest on it. And we covered more protests than any other paper in the city.
Speaker:So journalism is important. You know, like the whole New York Times democracy dies in the
Speaker:darkness. You know, whether or not we consider it good journalism or bad journalism, journalism
Speaker:is important and needs protection. And when we start trying to draw these distinctions
Speaker:too aggressively... it puts us in danger. I really believe that. I'm not saying that rebel
Speaker:news is a good thing. But when somebody calls themselves a journalist, I don't care who it
Speaker:is, there is protections that are needed there. And I think it balances out for the better.
Speaker:Because if somebody publishes video and does propaganda all over, if this clown goes in
Speaker:and tries to spread his propaganda asking for see a freelance, well, questions, well then
Speaker:we can respond to it. We can see and we can comment on what they're saying and it's a good
Speaker:thing to know what the right is saying because if we let these narratives grow without being
Speaker:able to respond to them, that's how fascism rises. You know, we need to be able to know
Speaker:what's going on from every side and be able to argue against it. So yeah, I'm pissed about
Speaker:this. Every right to be because let's be fairer. You know, you might take a little bit of flack
Speaker:for saying, you know, anyone who says they're a journalist is a journalist, because, you
Speaker:know, that opens up the imagination. But to Santiago's point, who then decides who who's
Speaker:doing that accreditation? Because because Santiago won't get accreditation. Some of the greatest
Speaker:reporters that ever were probably wouldn't be selected for accreditation. because they would
Speaker:be known to be asking hard hitting questions, writing with a slant, a bias that is damaging
Speaker:to, you know, there's vendettas that go on that would just like allow such manipulation of
Speaker:process. And so it's got to stay separate. Before we move on from the story of journalists getting
Speaker:arrested, I want to repeat two points that Desmond Cole made. I felt incredibly validated when
Speaker:I saw him chime in on this because I felt like I felt a little bit out of tune where people
Speaker:were not feeling what I was saying. And he set the record straight here, as he usually does.
Speaker:Yes, journalists need access to certain things for certain reasons. But everyday people also
Speaker:need to be able to ask questions and interact with the people who govern them. Because to
Speaker:his next point, had this same kind of mentality, oh, we got too close. walked her into a corner,
Speaker:you know. We saw footage not that long ago of Prime Minister Trudeau being accosted at a
Speaker:restaurant by people we know. And on that same mentality, we would have had them arrested
Speaker:as well, right? It's not hypotheticals. There are examples right now of these same tactics
Speaker:being utilized against our side, and we've given space to it. I kind of hinted about a neighbourhood
Speaker:being cut off from protests. Last week Toronto police decided that Avenue Road in the 401,
Speaker:there's an overpass there as there are every time you get a highway I guess, and that area
Speaker:has been shut off from protests. Now, you know we're specifically talking about pro-Palestinian
Speaker:protests because they've allowed protests and banner drops on this overpass many, many times
Speaker:before. It's a very visible spot. Banner drops are a common activity in protests. In fact,
Speaker:the first initial event that set the police off was like a province-wide, at least a city-wide
Speaker:banner drop. So there were multiple locations on that day. It was a call to action for the
Speaker:Palestinian youth movement to show solidarity and whatnot. And so there was all kinds organized
Speaker:and these kind of overpasses there. These events are announced ahead of time and counter protests
Speaker:show up, some of them end up getting kind of heated. But, you know, for me, in order to
Speaker:really explain like how this happened, you have to go back to like the city of Toronto, right
Speaker:October 7th, 8th, Olivia Chow releases a statement, her first statement, you know, has the required
Speaker:condemnation of what happened, the violence, but then immediately goes into police mode,
Speaker:saying she sat down with Toronto police, that she's going to encourage them to start protecting
Speaker:the Jewish community. And we talked about this, like on its face, it doesn't seem like a bad
Speaker:thing, police protecting a community. But hopefully you've heard enough episodes to understand
Speaker:like how problematic that is. I can't unpack that all here. But, you know, it demonized
Speaker:right away Palestinians. It assumed that there was some sort of threat here in Canada, presumably
Speaker:from Palestinians to the Jewish community. And this narrative has permeated through all of
Speaker:the protests and how they've been portrayed. how they've been portrayed since. And right
Speaker:away, we saw police accosting people for flying Palestinian flags, and now it's gone next level.
Speaker:Like they are walking down the street in their own neighborhood with kafias and police arrested
Speaker:them because they have decided that was a protest and this is within the designated area. And
Speaker:they're doing this because they say it's a predominantly Jewish community. Now you live in the city,
Speaker:Toronto, Santiago. There is no exclusive community hardly anywhere in the city of Toronto. And
Speaker:that's not even the most predominantly known Jewish community in the city. It's this area
Speaker:in particular, it can't be claimed by any one group in particular. It's incredibly diverse
Speaker:like most areas are. It'd be one thing, you know, we're talking about protests outside
Speaker:of synagogues. There are areas along Bathurst that are definitely areas that I would say
Speaker:are known to be, this is a Jewish community. This area on Avenue is not, and you cannot
Speaker:claim an overpass as part of any community. An overpass is an overpass. It's very clear
Speaker:why they picked this area because of the visibility. You know, and just like this area belongs to
Speaker:many people, the people who are protesting there, who we spoke to the other day, They live there.
Speaker:This is their community. This is nothing more than a very thinly veiled opportunistic excuse
Speaker:to be able to shut down what has been an effective and visible protest. And they're looking to
Speaker:do this more and more. They're looking to find excuses. Now, we know right now, based on recent
Speaker:polling data, that the vast majority of people in Toronto are actually in support of the protests.
Speaker:That is not the narrative that they're trying to paint here. We, that didn't happen overnight.
Speaker:It didn't start that way. Much, many less people were in support at this beginning, but it's
Speaker:a testament to how effective these protests, which have now been going on every single weekend
Speaker:and more since the past 100 days. There was something like what, 300 protests in Toronto
Speaker:or something? There was a ridiculous number like that. I think there's weekly ones every
Speaker:Saturday or Sunday on the weekend there. And then you've got some outside of the Israeli
Speaker:consulate. And yet I can imagine that number is quite high, especially if you include all
Speaker:of these local protests that are coming up, which was part of the strategy of enabling
Speaker:and empowering locals to start their own smaller organizations so that they could. represent
Speaker:locally, increase visibility, and these folks are answering that call and doing a banner
Speaker:drop along. And people are saying they're targeting the neighborhood because it's Jewish when it's
Speaker:their own neighborhood. And talk about being targeted. I don't want to tell their whole
Speaker:story because they're going to come on here, but these folks were treated horribly, you
Speaker:know, not just by the police, but by folks driving by, the things that were said. This was 100%
Speaker:green lit. by Olivia Chow and quite a few Toronto city councillors that made it clear these protests
Speaker:needed extra police scrutiny, right? Her one of her first statements is, I understand there's
Speaker:a protest without a permit going on, like you don't need a permit, and deciding arbitrarily,
Speaker:like who gave the police power to just decide and where are the boundaries? And is every
Speaker:kind of protest or is this just pro-Palestinian protests? The permit comment is really annoying
Speaker:and it's not the first time recently that she has said that about the permit. Olivia Chow
Speaker:has been to her fair share of protests throughout the years. She knows better. She comes from
Speaker:that area, like from, you know, a history of, of protests. It is so malicious for her to
Speaker:imply that. And I'm seeing this narrative repeated online by people. I don't know. if who still
Speaker:needs to hear this, but no, you do not need a permit to protest. There's not certain places
Speaker:you can protest and certain places you cannot protest wherever the fuck you want. And in
Speaker:terms of blocking roads, like a protest is not meant to be as accommodating as possible to
Speaker:those in power and to the, to, you know, business as usual status quo, you know, if a protest
Speaker:blocks a road, good. If it inconveniences people, good, because we've seen the 300 protests around
Speaker:the city. A protest that is as accommodating as possible, it's not going to get noticed.
Speaker:It's not going to get the message across. And when people, I mean, right now, Israel's in
Speaker:the, uh, in the ICJ right now, facing genocide charges. We don't need to explain to anybody
Speaker:what the hell is going on here. When children are dying at this level, when Hospitals are
Speaker:being bombed schools are being bombed journalists are being killed doctors are being killed and
Speaker:little inconvenience seems Pretty fucking minor and they're not blocking the road. That's the
Speaker:other thing They're actually not the police are Brock blocking the road so that they can
Speaker:arrest people The police are blocking the road so they have an excuse to use What what's it
Speaker:called the highway act so they can criminalize this? they're not even blocking the road, but
Speaker:Again, like these, it's the same thing we were just talking about when we were talking about
Speaker:the reaction of people to the rebel news story, the Freeman convoy, all these things. It's,
Speaker:it doesn't matter. It is, we cannot start drawing these lines. We cannot start trying to de-radicalize
Speaker:these things and to be accommodating. We're, by doing so, we surrender the ability to be
Speaker:effective. The next example that I'm going to give shows that. That's the response that they're
Speaker:getting in Ottawa to the bylaw tickets. And although our next story actually will be another
Speaker:example against pro-Palestinian protests, I think it's prudent to say, though, that police
Speaker:don't give a fuck. We know why Olivia said what she said, and we know why Zionists are framing
Speaker:Palestinian movements the way that they are. But in the end, the police don't give a fuck.
Speaker:They don't care what your cause is. They're not out there because they're Zionists. I mean,
Speaker:they might be, but that's not the point. The point is they love the chance to stomp on your
Speaker:charter rights and expand their power and expand their budget. They don't care if you're from
Speaker:rebel news or whether you're an independent indigenous reporter. They don't care if you're
Speaker:protesting vaccines or if you're fighting a genocide. They will get more money for doing
Speaker:what they do. They will look like the saviors of the day. They will flex their muscles and
Speaker:push boundaries unless we push back, right? And that's thankfully, although expensive,
Speaker:that's what folks are doing in response to the $490 tickets. Like... I'm so broke. That would
Speaker:bust me. $490 tickets are being handed out to activists in Ottawa when they use voice amplification,
Speaker:noise amplification. The average Canadian, and this is a statistic from like four years ago,
Speaker:so it's got to be worse, the average Canadian cannot afford a $400 emergency. This affects
Speaker:the vast majority of people. Because sometimes it's not going to be violence, maybe it's not
Speaker:going to be arrests, but they will find all sorts of deterrents to use through the security
Speaker:mechanisms that they have to stop us from taking to the streets, to confine even smaller the
Speaker:boundaries of which is acceptable to protest. The folks in Ottawa, what we're talking about
Speaker:is, you know, they're using a bullhorn. Has anybody ever been to a protest where there
Speaker:hasn't been a megaphone, a bullhorn, or a speaker system used to amplify, you know, your speakers
Speaker:perhaps at the rally or the chants as you march along? I've never, I mean, for Christmas, when
Speaker:you're, I got one that can sit on your belt and clip around your collar. I mean, this is
Speaker:standard operating procedure for even the smallest of rallies. And now they're handing out $490
Speaker:tickets. So folks from the Palestinian youth movement obviously ended up with some. I saw
Speaker:representatives of PSAC out there, that is a public sector union, and other community members.
Speaker:So they issued nine of these tickets one week and three on another in late December. And
Speaker:the response from the Palestinian youth movement representative that was quoted there is like,
Speaker:we're gonna keep doing this. We are gonna fight them in court. So they've retained counsel
Speaker:to push this through the courts. They were gonna raise money to pay the fines, I suppose, in
Speaker:the meantime, and they're gonna keep using sound amplification. And like I said, it's almost
Speaker:unimaginable to try to do that without. I know the Occupy movement, we started the People's
Speaker:Might. I don't know if that was because the police had threatened or it just became a lack
Speaker:of resources overcome, but you know, you can't do it without. A megaphone, I mean, it becomes
Speaker:an accessibility thing. And more to the point of what we were talking about is not backing
Speaker:down. Like a lot of the response to the Avenue Road 401 is like the moderate approach. Well,
Speaker:you know, just the benefit of the doubt. Some people feel unsafe, so just go somewhere else.
Speaker:And it's like, but fucking people can say that anywhere and everywhere. And at what point
Speaker:do you draw the line and you take a stand and say, absolutely not? The only recourse I can
Speaker:have can't be through the courts. Not everyone can get a lawyer and fight things through the
Speaker:courts. And even if you can, it's already served to deter other people. I think like a showing
Speaker:of force, I saw people suggest, you know, the response to the Avenue Road situation would
Speaker:actually be to move the weekly protests there. And I know some people might cringe at that,
Speaker:but you have to be the boss in this situation. You can't allow the police, you can't allow
Speaker:the city. to push back anymore than they already have. Our rights have already been curtailed
Speaker:so much. There's already the threat of police intervention all the time. To start normalizing
Speaker:increasingly oppressive tactics by them is a huge mistake, a huge mistake. So, you know,
Speaker:whether it's bylaw officers or cops, the city's response, I guess... Perhaps this was initiated
Speaker:in response to the stupid fucking convoy that drove the neighbors crazy with all of the noise
Speaker:that they made. And so it's a perfect example of us likely advocating for certain responses
Speaker:that are coming back to bite us in the end. But the city's response is trying to like,
Speaker:oh, well, we want to educate you on the rules of protests. so similar to the areas of exclusion,
Speaker:just work within these very reasonable bounds. But that defeats the entire purpose of protests.
Speaker:Because let me tell you, whatever is defined for you is what is tolerable to them. And the
Speaker:whole point of a demonstration, of a disruption, is to come to a point that is intolerable and
Speaker:forces a negotiation, a capitulation, a victory. If you always work within the confines of what
Speaker:has been deemed already acceptable, you've already lost and wasted your energy, frankly. I just
Speaker:can't help but think of the French right now. Oh, you mean like their protests? Yeah. Can
Speaker:you imagine telling the French, oh, you can't use microphones, you can't protest in this
Speaker:neighborhood? Like... That they would. It's like when they told Celtic fans not to bring
Speaker:Palestinian flags to the next match. And I think I don't know where they found so many flags,
Speaker:but it seems like every fan there had a flag in response. You have to outdo them. It can't.
Speaker:I'm so tired of finding the middle ground with fascists. We don't even have to look all the
Speaker:way to Celtics. I mean, here in the MLS. It's just Celtic. Yeah, Celtic. Sorry. There was
Speaker:a similar ban for Portland Timber fans. They like to fly a lot of anti-fascist flags during
Speaker:their games. It led to the league outlawing political banners and then they doubled down
Speaker:on it and then they had to make an exception for them because they refused to back down
Speaker:on it, right? And now I still see anti-fascist flags every time TFC plays against Portland
Speaker:Timbers and I can't help but, you know. You're on the wrong side. Yeah, cheer for them. You
Speaker:need to bring the Red Patch boys around. No, Portland has always. Yeah, I have a soft spot
Speaker:for Portland. Fun fact, apparently Portland and me share music taste, according to my Spotify
Speaker:rap for twenty three city most similar to my music taste. Anyways, shout out to Portland.
Speaker:But you know that it's a good example, right? Like it. There's been plenty of times when
Speaker:there's been an attempt, you know, like the French have tried to outlaw protests altogether
Speaker:and the French, they doubled down, you know? We see how strong their movements are, right?
Speaker:Look at Lebanon. I mean, in Colombia, they had the, they were, just a couple years ago, the
Speaker:protests got massive and they tried to outlaw them and people got hurt. People kept going
Speaker:and then you know the first leftist was elected now. I'm not gonna talk too much about that
Speaker:But you know like it's very tame. What's going on here? These are these are real low-key protests
Speaker:that Well, they don't they're we're not exactly pelting cops with rocks yet like the French
Speaker:You know, there's no Molotov cocktails You know, yes, it's pretty low-key what's going on over
Speaker:here They cannot possibly have an issue with this. And we don't back down an inch. Like
Speaker:these are some of the most, yeah, sorry. They're just way too chill. But to be fair, our cops
Speaker:are snowflakes too, right? They haven't experienced what you're talking about, but you bring up
Speaker:South America, and don't worry, I won't make you go deep. But it does remind me that Argentina,
Speaker:the wonderful new fascist leader over there, one of the tactics that... we're starting to
Speaker:bill the social movements for the police response to their protests. So if they need to call
Speaker:out the tanks and every cop in the city, then the leaders of the various organizations that
Speaker:put together that rally, you put your logo on the flyer and I guess you're getting a bill
Speaker:in the mail that I imagine is a lot heftier than... a $490 fine. We have an interview with
Speaker:Anna Lippman coming up where you hear her talk about taking risks, risking arrest and the
Speaker:balance of working within the confines available, but also pushing boundaries in order to get
Speaker:what you need done. But absolutely the response is to push back and to obviously start defunding
Speaker:these police forces. Because as you remember at the top of the show, we weren't just talking
Speaker:about pro-Palestinian protests. Like I said, the cops don't, they don't care. They are flexing
Speaker:their muscles from coast to coast. And in Toronto, we know the budget talks are coming up. We'll
Speaker:tear that apart when it comes due, but we know the cops are likely to get more money, and
Speaker:then they're not even happy they want even more money. And the whole point of doing this and
Speaker:flexing and pulling out all the stops... is to excuse their budgets and justify more. They
Speaker:are the solution to everything now, right? Housing and disruption and traffic and always crime
Speaker:and drugs, right? So obviously all your funds should go there. They're gonna fix it all.
Speaker:Yeah, that's the relationship of police versus movements, right? No matter which movement
Speaker:you are, no matter what issue it is. The police are there as a tool of the state to repress
Speaker:those movements. It's... That's the history. That's modern history right there, right? That's
Speaker:the second you are being effective at something, you can expect to have a run in with the police.
Speaker:You know? I've seen it through a variety of different issues. Desmond Cole has seen it
Speaker:a million times himself. You know, we mentioned him earlier. I bring up Desmond Cole because
Speaker:he was just tweeting about... There was a recent report that came out just a couple days ago
Speaker:on January 10th about how, well, the Toronto police admits that they shot Devin Follin back
Speaker:in February of 2023 without having needed to shoot him, you know, to quote directly what
Speaker:they said, when there was no risk of bodily harm or death to any officer or member of the
Speaker:public. And now they're going and asking for a budget increase that they're getting and
Speaker:they're angry. that they're getting a budget increase and it's not as much as they wanted.
Speaker:I mean, that's it's the story over and over again of their progressive politicians making
Speaker:these stupid concessions that in the end don't win them anything. To concede to the Zionist
Speaker:lobby, to a demonized Palestinian movement at the cost that it had or didn't matter. And
Speaker:here with police. throwing them a bone and increasing their budget, even though that's a betrayal,
Speaker:again, to the people that helped elect her and likely worked on her campaign, it's still not
Speaker:going to be enough to win her, you know, the law and order vote. And it wasn't even enough
Speaker:to keep the cops happy. So it's such a lose situation when those budgets go up. but not
Speaker:only does it take away from the services people need and feed into an awful system, but it
Speaker:is going to prevent us from effectively mounting campaigns. Because although my advice is often,
Speaker:you know, double down and push back, it's very likely that one that could be met with violence.
Speaker:I mean, folks from Avenue Road were hospitalized after police pushed them and whatnot. They
Speaker:ended up with injuries. But court, right, between challenging these tickets and fighting arrests
Speaker:and charter challenges, this is all a very expensive endeavor. And they know that. So that's frustrating.
Speaker:It seems like no matter which way we go, we're going to end up in these courts and surely
Speaker:we don't have an advantage there. I mean, that's not to say it's not an avenue. There are good
Speaker:people mounting some necessary challenges. But in the meantime, I think you become so powerful
Speaker:and so big and so defiant that, you know, they can't arrest us all mentality. But even as
Speaker:I say that, I remember the G20 and hundreds, hundreds of people getting arrested and then
Speaker:building special facilities just to store these people in really inhumane conditions. And I
Speaker:think although they got backlash there. Even from both sides, I mean it was horrific. They,
Speaker:uh, the public appetite is coming back. And I think it's our job to really curb that appetite
Speaker:for police responses to... Well, fucking to everything, but especially to protests and
Speaker:challenging politicians. You know, even Leah Gazan was out there tweeting like, this is
Speaker:unacceptable that we're outside of Melanie Jolie's house. Like, what did you think? No justice,
Speaker:no peace? Was just something for your t-shirt? Or it's just not applicable unless it might
Speaker:come to you? Are we acting like politicians don't show up at our doorstep when they want
Speaker:to be elected? You know, it's not like they keep their campaigning away from our doorstep.
Speaker:And I'm sorry, but I'm not looking to worry about the comfort of somebody who's actively
Speaker:enabling genocide. I don't see how anybody can try and justify such a thing. It's treating,
Speaker:you know, it's, when people assume these roles, it doesn't have this blanket protection from
Speaker:accountability as much as they want to think that, as much as they wanna think that they
Speaker:can be, live a comfortable life while screwing over the rest of the world. No, that's not
Speaker:how that works. Having just come back from Colombia, I have like a new found. desire for boldness,
Speaker:you could say, because, you know, you go to places of the world that are actively being
Speaker:screwed over by imperialism and colonialism, and you see, you know, the active effects and
Speaker:the history of that, and then you also see how people there rise the fuck up en masse, are
Speaker:met with violence, and they continue fighting back, and you hear about how social leaders
Speaker:are killed constantly, and I can't help but think how... Here in the lions then, here at
Speaker:the center of all of this, while I'm not saying that we're not gonna be met with violence,
Speaker:we have the ability to be a hell of a lot more disruptive. And we have a responsibility to
Speaker:the rest of the world, to the countries that we're screwing over, to the people who they
Speaker:can't do anything about it in their homes, in their home countries, because they'll be killed,
Speaker:and they are being killed. We have a responsibility to them. to do everything in our power to end
Speaker:their suffering that we're causing that's being caused in our name. I'm not okay with that.
Speaker:So if Melanie Joy wants to sleep comfortably at night, if these leaders want to be left
Speaker:alone, then how about you leave other people in other countries the fuck alone first. Don't
Speaker:go screwing over their lives and then wonder why people are showing up at your doorstep.
Speaker:This is, and I mean this quite fucking literally. Like we need to understand the extent of the
Speaker:harm that these people are causing. They're bold about it too because they've been doing
Speaker:this for a very fucking long time and they've gotten used to our Canadian culture of you
Speaker:know, oh no don't block the road it'll inconvenience traffic. Politicians have also gotten really
Speaker:good at thwarting the public. You know, they have constituency days and hours and quite
Speaker:often they're not even there. And if they do meet with you, they've got all these buffer
Speaker:people to half answer questions for them. And so there's really no fucking accessibility
Speaker:sometimes from journalists either. You know, the scrums are limited. And at what point can
Speaker:we hold you accountable then? And it's just like every other avenue that we have where
Speaker:you cut off. this and you cut off that and there's no real democracy. Well, guess what? It ends
Speaker:up in the streets. There's no other outlet. Whenever a politician is doing something that
Speaker:they know that they're getting backlash on, I can guarantee you that they're not answering
Speaker:90% of journalists' calls. They'll answer the ones that they know are friendly or are going
Speaker:to give them softball things so that they can make a public statement. But they're not answering
Speaker:most of our calls at all. And I know because I, you know, we've tried like, seasoned journalists
Speaker:with decades of experience who they're like, oh yeah, they're not going to get fucked. They're
Speaker:not going to get back to us on this. Oh, there's no way we're going to reach them now. So exactly.
Speaker:So just to like really emphasize what Jess is saying here, what exactly is the avenue for
Speaker:holding them accountable? No, and it's not even just like literally, they don't answer our
Speaker:calls. But in general, they're not answering our calls. If you're talking about the call
Speaker:for a ceasefire. that has not happened. An escalation is inevitable. If you do not listen to the
Speaker:people, they will speak louder. You have a kid, you know that, right? It ends up with screaming
Speaker:and making a scene. And this is what's necessary if you're not going to listen. And if Melanie
Speaker:Jolie is not going to call for a ceasefire or even decently respond to these calls, then
Speaker:I'm sorry. you're going to have to be held accountable in some way. And that's not just going to be
Speaker:some NDP MP standing up in question period and asking you a question. That doesn't fucking
Speaker:count. They may think that's what they get paid for, but that doesn't fucking count. And the
Speaker:city of Ottawa isn't gonna all of a sudden decide that megaphones aren't gonna be used in protests.
Speaker:And Toronto police can't decide what neighborhoods are good and what neighborhoods are bad for
Speaker:protests. for whom, when, and how long, what streets they can take, what businesses they'll
Speaker:protect. I mean, we have to call an end to that, an absolute end to that. That can't just happen
Speaker:through the courts. That has to happen with just absolute defiance. Yeah. Because that
Speaker:is our duty, you know, to defy unjust laws. I know I brought up a few times today, but
Speaker:you know, it's all my memory for some reason, but you know, like when people went to City
Speaker:Hall to protest. budget last year. What happened? They were arrested. Is that not the right place
Speaker:to go protest? Oh no, not then either. Not at City Hall either. That's apparently not okay
Speaker:either. Were the politicians were all there in the room? Apparently that's not okay either.
Speaker:So if they're gonna criminalize protesting where we're supposed to fucking protest as well,
Speaker:what it is they're telling us to go
Speaker:get it out of our systems and go home and nothing changes. That's what they want from us. And
Speaker:we know history, we know our history, we know better than that, we know how we have achieved
Speaker:every positive change that we've ever won. It's been won in the streets. It's been won by being
Speaker:disruptive. And obviously, blueprints of disruption, this isn't new to our audience. You all know
Speaker:this, like we talk about this constantly, but it's... We have to remind, we have to go out
Speaker:and remind people of this because it's been very effective at making us forget that. But
Speaker:like we've been saying, you know, like shout out to recent victories, you know, Algoma University,
Speaker:that was one in the victory for those students, that was one in the streets. York Southwest
Speaker:and Tenant Union, when they were being disrupted occupying their office, they won that battle.
Speaker:They weren't supposed to be there. The cops came and told them they weren't supposed to
Speaker:be there. They- stood up, showed face, stood their ground, they didn't get arrested, and
Speaker:they won that battle. We know how these battles are won. We know our history. That is a wrap
Speaker:on another episode of Blueprints of Disruption. Thank you for joining us. Also, a very big
Speaker:thank you to the producer of our show, Santiago Halu-Quintero. Blueprints of Disruption is
Speaker:an independent production operated cooperatively. You can follow us on Twitter at If you'd like
Speaker:to help us continue disrupting the status quo, please share our content. And if you have the
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Speaker:community, so does our content. So reach out to us and let us know what or who we should
Speaker:be amplifying. So until next time, keep disrupting.
