“Roofers protect everything you hold dear. It deserves respect and we have to start standing up and saying we are not just roofers. I deserve a professional credential that shows I am awesome and deserve to be hired.”
Jared Ribble, Vice President of Certification for NRCA and Director of the Qualified Trainer Program
A roof is an essential part of every home. Sure, the walls keep the house together, and the floor keeps us off the dirt, but the roof protects us from rain, storms, and hail. Without roofing and the roofers who install it across the country, our world would be much less bearable. So why, then, is roofing not a respected job?
The National Roofing Contractors Association, or NRCA, believes that roofers do irreplaceable work, protecting our homes and businesses with skill and hard work. This effort shouldn’t go unrecognized or uncredentialed. To this end, they developed ProCertification, and Vice President of Certification for NRCA Jared Ribble shares their mindset behind the creation.
Tune in for insight on why roofing matters, how we can instill meaning into roofing careers, and why anyone involved in roofing should reach out to NRCA and consider ProCertification.
Topics discussed in this interview:
- Passing up the family roofing business
- Returning to roofing after some inspiration
- NRCA’s approach to the worker shortage
- Omitting roofing from trade schools and why it’s a problem
- Contractors should invest in teaching in trade schools
- Certification addresses a growing need
- What is ProCertification?
- Which materials are available to be certified in?
- How has ProCertification affected people?
- What about liability?
- Adapting ProCertification regionally
- The Qualified Trainer program
- An inside look at the Stories of an Extraordinary Industry podcast
- What sparked Jared’s passion for roofing?
- Why does roofing matter?
- Rapid fire questions
If you are interested in ProCertification, or are a roofer yourself, visit nrca.net to learn more. Also, check out Stories of an Extraordinary Industry for an inside look at the people and accomplishments of roofing.
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This episode was produced by Isaiah Industries, Inc.
Intro/Outro:
:Welcome to the Construction Disruption podcast, where we uncover the future of design, building and remodeling.
Todd Miller:
:I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries, a manufacturer of specialty metal roofing and other building materials. Today, my co-host is Seth Heckaman. Seth, how's today going for you?
Seth Heckaman:
:Going well. How are you doing today? Tom?
Todd Miller:
:I'm doing well also. Got to tell you though, so I was at my therapist the other day and my therapist told me that I have problems expressing my emotions. I can't say I was surprised by that. Speaking of doctors, though, you know, you know, I go to a chiropractor every once in a while, and the first time I really thought my chiropractor wasn't any good. But now I stand corrected. Okay, that's about as exciting as it gets here on Construction Disruption.
Seth Heckaman:
:Those weren't your worst dad jokes. Those were pretty solid ones this week. Well done.
Todd Miller:
:Well, I do need to let our audience know that we are going to be doing challenge words this episode. And what that means is that both Seth and I and our guest soon to be introduced, have a challenge word to work into the conversation at some point. So that is a word that's been given to each of us by one of the others. And our challenge is to try to naturally and seamlessly work it into the conversation so that our audience doesn't notice it. But we encourage audience members to be listening for any odd words we might say. And at the end of the show we will announce what our challenge words were and whether we were successful or not. So, Seth, we ready to move ahead?
Seth Heckaman:
:I think so, yeah.
Todd Miller:
:Awesome. Well, today's guest I'm very excited about is Jared Ribble. Jared is with the NRCA, the National Roofing Contractors Association. He is Vice President of Certification, running NRCA's ProCertification program. And he also oversees NRCA's Qualified Trainer program. He is also host of NRCA: Stories of an Extraordinary Industry podcast. Now, I believe that NRCA is truly disrupting the roofing industry by bringing new levels of installer certification as an option and a benefit to property owners. Jared, I actually have long wanted to have a guest here on the show who can talk about industry-based certification, so we're really looking forward to this conversation. Thank you so much for joining us. Pleasure to have you here today.
Jared Ribble:
:I got to tell you, Todd, my adrenaline is pumping today. I am so excited to be here. So thank you for having me. We're going to have a good time.
Todd Miller:
:Fantastic. Well, I'm looking forward to it as well, thank you. So let's kind of kick off things here with some details about you. I knew that you grew up around a roofing business, but you're also a professional musician, drumming with the best of them. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what brought you to where you are today?
Jared Ribble:
:Well, great question. And I'll tell you what, it is kind of odd. Like I grew up in roofing, you're in roofing, but music, like how does all that tie together? So let me just try to give you an idea. It's my journey. I'm excited about it, I guess. But so my grandfather started a roofing company back in the fifties, and I think it's kind of interesting that he was working for a roofing company. They were making mistakes and that roofing company owner wouldn't go back and correct them. So my grandfather said, No way, I will go back. He went back on his own to these jobs, that mistakes were happening. On his own time, on his own dime, and was fixing up this company's mistakes. So he said, Screw that, I'll start my own company and do it the right way. Well, that was back in the fifties. So then my dad and my uncle, they took it over and built it and ran it for 30 years. Meanwhile, of course, I come along and my parents are doing what good parents do. They take us to the community high school football games and the Christmas Day parades and they noticed that I was always keying in on that drum line. I mean, I have memories of being on my dad's shoulders and I'd say, Dad, follow the drum. And we at a parade, we would follow the drum line as well. So I think my parents figured, well, maybe we should get him some drum lessons and so got some drum lessons and continued that all the way through high school. Well, of course, my dad, being a second generation roofing contractor, what do you do? Come to your son. All right, son. Want to take over the family business? And he knew because he was the one that was paying for all those drum lessons. I wanted to go off and be a rock star. So, you know, my dad, my parents are all okay. Well, he was disappointed, but he knew. And so they sent me off to Nashville to become, to go to college in Nashville, where I live, still live today. And I became a professional musician, did that for 20 years, had a great career playing for Grammy, Dove, CMA-award winning artists, did a lot of television. I was working on Freemantle, which puts on American Idol. So I was out doing some of their shows out in L.A.. ABC Network put together a show called Nashville with who was it, Connie Britton, Hayden Panettiere? So I was on that show quite a bit. But 2016, 2017, I was I was touring with two acts, and one of those acts was touring the U.S., another of those acts was touring in Japan. I was literally flying across the world trying to keep up with both these tours. And so in 2017, I was literally going out on the stage for a sold-out show with one of these acts. It was about 40 minutes before showtime, and RCA called me up and they said, Hey, we've got a three month project for you. Is there any chance you'd be interested in doing it? I'm like, I'm getting ready to go on stage. Click, and then a picture of me at that show circulated around on social media and guys, I looked tired. Why wouldn't I have been exhausted, disengaged, disinterested 20 years doing this, 20 years of the grind. Like that's not how a drummer should be looking for a sold-out show. And I called him up the next day, said, Yeah, I'll give up. I'll try that three months contract, I'll do it. That turned into six months, turned into a year and not, you know, several years later. And then, of course, a pandemic happened in the middle of all that. So that really kind of solidified for me, like now we're moving on into roofing. And so I'm excited to be back in the roofing industry. And of course, now I get to meet all these second, third, fourth generation roofing companies, roofing company owners, and they all kind of say the same thing. Like, Yeah, roofing sucked me back in. I went off to college to do X and sucked me back in. I kind of think. It's not a bad thing. Why? What is so scary or bad about roofing that it sucks me back in? Folks, there's two industries that I can think of that will stand the test of time. Toilet paper and roofing. No one wants to stand out in the rain. This is not a bad industry to be a part of. It's a great industry, let's be proud of it. So anyway, that's how a sort of roofing and drumming kind of come together. I still play like little I've got drum kits in my office right here. I've got drum kits actually over here you don't even see. So I still do it and I love it. But it's not my primary focus and way to feed my family anymore. So that's how it kind of all came together. Thanks for asking, I enjoy telling my story.
Todd Miller:
:So you are a well-syncopated guy, whether it's drumming or working for NRCA now, that's awesome. So I assume you must have gone to Belmont, is my guess.
Jared Ribble:
:I did. I went to Belmont University, yeah.
Todd Miller:
:Awesome. Very good. Well, that's great. Thank you for sharing that story, very interesting. So let's kind of move ahead and start to talk about what you're doing at NRCA today. So the construction industry in general talks a lot about the lack of skilled tradespeople. And the fact is, this is probably high in the mind of every construction related association out there as well, including NRCA. And you know, I've been heavily involved over the years with Metal Construction Association. It's a regular topic at our meetings as well. Do you have any general insight to share with us from the NRCA about the worker shortage today and what we can anticipate or what we're facing now or perhaps down the road?
Jared Ribble:
:Sure. Well, I'll I'm going to talk about it in two umbrellas, trades in general and then there's some nuances that I think are going on within the roofing industry. So trades in general. I am, I think, a perfect example. My dad worked for years, blue collar, you know, trade industry and that generation and the generation before said, you know, we look back, we worked for our pension, we worked to feed our families, but I may not have enjoyed that. It was a grind. And so they taught me and my generation, go off and do something you love, right? They said, Go off to college, better yourself. Don't get stuck in this rat race, factory mill-type work. So you have this massive void from my generation who didn't go into the trades. We went into college and to do something we love, we went off to be a rock star, right? Just to find out, honestly, like our generation before us, they had a weight around their neck, an anchor of this job that they didn't want the next generation to have that same anchor. Well, we traded one anchor for another. College debt, having to do a career that maybe we got into realize, well, now I don't love this career, but I'm stuck in it now. So anyway, point is, we've got this massive void from my generation that didn't go into the trades. So that's a big macro problem and I think things are starting to change there. But where roofing is is even more nuanced, so there is not a centralized training system in place for anyone that is interested in trades to find out that they are actually good at roofing. So I'll give you an example. You go into any trade school, and I've seen them with my own two eyes, go into a trade school and they've got a building envelope marked up. No roof on it.
Todd Miller:
:Hmm.
Jared Ribble:
:How can you have a building without a roof? So you have a quality kid coming out of high school. Quality kid. They are responsible, they're going to show up for class on time. They don't want to go to college, but they want to learn and they want to use these. They want to use their hands. So they go to trade school and they are exposed to electrical, they're exposed to plumbing, they're exposed to HVAC, carpentry, masonry. And what are they not exposed to? Roofing. Okay, so now you've get these quality kids going into the trades. That's wonderful, but they're not going into roofing. So what does that leave the workforce pool for the roofers? People that didn't want to learn, that couldn't get out of bed on a regular basis to show up to something on time. And now we've got roofing companies that admitted and they complain or I'll ask them, What do you want from a quality worker? I just want them to show up.
Todd Miller:
:Show up.
Jared Ribble:
:Boy, what a low bar. But the ones that prove to show up and prove responsible are going into the other trades because they saw and were exposed to those trades through our training trade school system. So it's it's you know, it's a macro problem because of the generational gap we have, which I think is turning. But it's a nuanced problem in roofing. So in NRCA, believe me, we are diving headlong deep into trying to solve that just, you know, for roofing. So anyway, that's that's what I have to say on workforce development, big-picture stuff.
Todd Miller:
:That's a really interesting observation, though, that, you know, trade schools don't typically do a lot with roofing. I mean, why do you think that is? Are they just assuming that it's not that difficult or it can get trained by anybody on the job or, you know, why is that oftentimes being ignored, I wonder?
Jared Ribble:
:I don't know that I have a complete and perfect answer for that. I have some ideas to fix it. I don't know why that came about. But I do think we're on the verge of some fixing, but it's going to take a little bit of effort. I'll tell you what's been built. Roof training curriculum that is standardized for trade schools that's been built and available. It's through NCCER. It's the, it's the publisher that publishes trade school curriculum. They now have a published curriculum for roofing.
Todd Miller:
:Okay.
Jared Ribble:
:So, so turnkey trade school, all they got to do is get that NCCER curriculum. But here's what we're missing, we're missing the teachers and we're missing the roofing companies where the trade schools can point the students to go get real work experience. So it's a simple, all we got to do is connect the dots. Roofing company says I want quality workers. Great. Go to trade school, connect the dots. Send someone over from your company to that trade school to be a teacher. Maybe it's just once a week, doesn't matter. Take from your company; go be a teacher. Now you have a direct line in to a quality pool of potential workers that you funnel into your company. You're getting taught and they're getting work experience at your company. And we just connected the dots. But it's going to take a little bit of effort from the contractor to go into that trade school and say, we're here. Start sending the people here and we'll help you get them trained inside of your school. So it's a little chicken or the egg, because if the curriculums aren't in the school, students aren't going to see it. But trade schools aren't willing to add the curriculum until they know there's a demand. So contractors got to get involved. They got to get involved and say, we're here. Let's start creating the demand, because the need is certainly there.
Todd Miller:
:Very interesting. And, you know, one of the things that I know has been kicked around a lot over the years is, you know, how do we give additional recognition to folks who are out there doing roofing installation? I mean, it's a job that, you know, frankly, one of the least desirable jobs on a job site is typically whoever has to crawl around up there on the roof. And so how do we give more recognition to them? And, you know, maybe that leads us into talking about the ProCertification program and giving us some nuts and bolts on that. And you know, what that currently looks like for NRCA.
Jared Ribble:
:Sure. Well, certainly having a professional credential that can be earned goes a long way to that. Now, back in 2019, the NRCA commissioned a study of the roofing industry. And what do installers want? And they found something really interesting that, there's a generational divide here. Older generations, they want a paycheck. They want to go home, kick back, and eventually they want to retire. So, you know, Xers and older. Okay. So they're now, what, 45, 50 years old? Millennials and younger, they found that they wanted training and certification. They want the recognition that their training and professionalism is honored and recognized. So you get that through a degree, a diploma, a certification that says you are or I am a true professional. I'm committed to this craft and I am good. We don't want to go to a holiday party and have to shuffle our feet when someone asks, What do you do?
Todd Miller:
:Hmm.
Jared Ribble:
:I'm a roofer. No, no. I am a professional certified roof installer in thermoplastic systems and asphalt shingles. And I protect everything you own. That's what we need. We need people standing up with pride.
Todd Miller:
:That's good stuff.
Seth Heckaman:
:And it's great that you have that hard data to try to change this narrative, because I think across our industry, it's the assumption is, you know, installers out there kind of say just fiddlesticks to any sort of education or opportunity to learn, you know, home skills and get that recognition. But they're asking for it, they're clamoring for it. So building the systems around it and building organizations that they see the opportunity to support themselves and their families well through those skills, there's, you know, we can we can turn this problem around. And obviously, you all are doing taking a great step towards that.
Todd Miller:
:So let's dig into ProCertification. Tell us, you know, I don't want to assume anything of our audience. I'm sure that a lot of our audience members are from the design side of things, not necessarily from the hands-on construction side. So give us an overview of the ProCertification program, what it is, and where NRCA stands right now in terms of its development and its, what shall I say, population across different types of roofing materials.
Jared Ribble:
:Sure. Well, let's just back up. Big picture. What is ProCertification? It is the installer's professional credential certifying that they are in fact a quality roof installer. Now, most people probably listening understand that the skills to do asphalt shingles is a different skill than welding thermoplastic, which is a different skill than fastening metal panels. So, the certification is system specific. So if you're an asphalt shingler and you're committed to the roofing industry, you're committed to asphalt shingle and you're doing it every day, you have the opportunity to be a certified roofing professional roofing installer, Pro Certified Asphalt Shingler. If you're a thermoplastic installer, certified thermoplastic installer through a third party certification. Yes, you've gotten trained somewhere. We already kind of talked about there's not a really centralized training system. There's great training for manufacturers, great training from unions, great training from inside your own roofing company. Take that training and complete your assessment of your skills and earn your certificate, your certified status. So that's what it is. And, you know, it gives consumers a level of confidence, it gives consultants a level of confidence many every. It just gives everyone a level of confidence. Think about your driver's license. I'm sure most everybody listening to this has a driver's license. Think about what you did to earn that driver's license. You took a short little knowledge exam and then you took a skills assessment. A driver's tester guy took you out on the road and said, Turn left, turn right. Stop here. Do a y-turn here. Okay. And then they gave you a license. Now, it doesn't warranty that you're never going to get in a crash. It doesn't say that you will never be liable. Or it doesn't it doesn't exonerate you from from any from any possible mistakes. But it gives everyone around you some level of confidence that when we come to a four way stop, we're not going to bang into each other. And mind you, mine says Tennessee on it. I don't know where everyone else is, you know, maybe Ohio or some other places, but we can be on the same road and have a level of confidence that we know what we're doing when we come to driving. That's essentially what what the certification is. So and you get that certification about the same way that you get your driver's test, about. My wife learned how to drive at a high school parking lot. I learned how to drive literally, I'm from Wisconsin. You know, county roads and gravel roads. That's where I learned how to drive. I have friends that learned how to drive in a simulator. It doesn't matter how we learned how to drive. It just matters that we were able to pass the knowledge test and pass the skills assessment. And we all have our driver's license.So that's a bit how the ProCertification program works, because we don't have a centralized training system in place. Get your training, take an online simple knowledge assessment, which has a lot of safety-related questions, and then an assessor will come out to you and assess your skills on a mock up. We do have options for video, like we've got an app that you can submit videos through. You can do it that way as well. So we're doing whatever we can to make it as simple and easy as possible to verify your skills. We're even toying with doing it right up on a job site, too. So whatever way we can assess your skills, we want to do it.
Todd Miller:
:Good stuff. Well, that's, and you're making me think about my own driver's exam at this point, so. So I need to share this. So I'm doing my skills test, my driver's exam, and we're going through an intersection on a green light. Right as I enter the intersection, the tester, assessor, whatever, says, okay, change into the left hand lane. I did what any one good 16-year-old kid would do. I changed it to the left hand lane. That was when I discovered it's illegal to change lanes in the middle of an intersection. And I swear, no one had ever taught me that. Anyway. So what types of systems? I know that, you know, the plan has always been to cover pretty much all types of roofing systems. Where does that NRCA stand at that? I know you started with shingles and you've done, I think, some TPO and things. What systems are currently covered under ProCertification?
Jared Ribble:
:Sure, most all of them. Let's start on the steep slope side. Asphalt shingles, clay and concrete tile.
Todd Miller:
:Okay.
Jared Ribble:
:Metal panel, metal shingles, and slate. So those are the steep slope certifications you can earn. On the lower slope side, thermoplastic EPDM And now we're just finishing up modified bitumen and, and built up and all the appropriate attachment methods. Because a modified bitumen you can be torching, you can be cold-applied or, you know, peel and stick, that kind of thing. So, you know, those would be the low slope systems that people can earn their certification in. So covering just about everything.
Todd Miller:
:That's great and I wasn't aware that you'd gotten into tile and everything already at this point. So that's fantastic.
Jared Ribble:
:Yeah, and slate, and slate too. And that's that's been interesting to see that I don't want to get too, too involved in slate but man, chiseling out around pipes and it's really neat to see the craftsmanship that goes in to slate. Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't say foremen. We've got a certification for the foremen, and that's really special to see those guys earn their professional credential. And next fall, a service and maintenance technician, they will be able to earn their own certification as well.
Seth Heckaman:
:Very cool.
Jared Ribble:
:So really trying to cover everybody that's up on the roof, trying to trying to make sure that they can stand tall and proud that they are a certified professional.
Seth Heckaman:
:I know on the slate side, I believe you've been working with our mutual friend Brian Chalsma, who's heavily involved, and one of the experts in in the country, heavily involved in the National Slate Association. But I was riding around Virginia Beach with Brian one day in his truck, and he reached in the back seat and pulled out the NRCA roofing manuals for every product, and told me the story about how, you know, standardization and having something to plug into changed his business and and was super valuable for them. So on both, on the individual side obviously this level of credibility and education. But then for an organization to have a standard and a metric to measure everything back to is obviously incredibly valuable as this has been implemented. I'm curious, do you have case studies, stories that you find yourself telling a lot? What is this has meant for individuals or a company, whether it's, you know, drop in service calls or increase in wages or, you know, increase in efficiencies? What are these stories of these benefits you're seeing out there?
Jared Ribble:
:Yeah, great question. Data is going to be a little bit hard to pull because we are pretty early. We're three, four years into this. So, you know, I think when we get ten, around ten years or so, we'll have actual metrics from manufacturers, from building owners and consultants that can say Pro Certified workers did this job, and we don't have certain problems.
Seth Heckaman:
:Sure.
Jared Ribble:
:So we're going to get to that point eventually. But I've got some stories for you that I just, I find are really powerful. Early on, I was in Sacramento helping administer some asphalt shingle exams. And the first one, it was a group of installers all from different companies. And the first one done, he was a Spanish-speaking gentleman, about 50 years old, and he finished up. He was so proud. He knew he did a good job and he turns to me and literally has water in his eyes. He says, Thank you. No one has ever given me an opportunity to show that I am good at this.
Todd Miller:
:Wow.
Jared Ribble:
:And it just smacked me in the face. It was so awesome. We've got a company down in Dallas who has 85% of their installers certified and they are now getting calls. We want your company because you are going to, because you have certified workers. So we've got companies that are starting to get business and are separating themselves apart, which that's really exciting. And now we have some consultants that are putting it into the spec because their customers are saying we want this. And not only does a customer are saying they want us, but this is making the consultant look good. Hey, use me as the consultant because not only am I going to help make sure that you're getting the right specification and the right membrane or the right or the right manufacturer product, but I'm going to make sure that the best installers are going to be doing this. And so it's amazing how the consultant can really kind of puff up their chest and say, Use me to consult on this because I'm going to make sure that you get the best stuff. And then frankly, just be perfectly honest with you, it makes their job easier. How much reporting does a consultant have to do that's not going to report the good stuff to their to their client, but they also have to show the bad stuff. And that makes their job easier and is less embarrassing, if you will, when they, because there's less mistakes. They're using better people, or not better people. They're using proven installers. So there's a real, there's a unique thing going on around and with ProCertification. And it's really quite exciting to see. Manufacturers are excited to see this, the manufacturers are excited about it because you know how much money does a manufacturer spend chasing after warranty claims that really wasn't the product that failed?
Todd Miller:
:Mm hmm.
Jared Ribble:
:I mean, I don't have the number because every manufacturer is different and every manufacturer holds that very close. You know, they're not going to share with me that data, but they will say millions and millions of dollars are spent chasing after warranty claims that was not their product's fault. It was because the installer was not really as proven and tested. And then we get into a big issue. Boy, the manufacturers have really had a tough time. They try to combat this with their own training. They get up on the roofs and they train, they go to contractor shops and they train. But then what happens? The worker that's doing the detail was not necessarily the one that was there in the training because workers can be transient because there was a shortage of workers at that time. So a lot of the contractor had to bring in a lot of subs. And yeah, the subs, it was okay, they're pushing around membrane, they're they're sweeping up and cleaning up, but man, the rains come and hey, grab that welder and let me show you how to do it real quick. And they really didn't have the, the true, tried and true training to do it. So it really becomes a problem in real world. So the more we can show the bar, here is the bar which is the certification subcontract labor. Lets get you guys certified. Manufacturers, help the contractors and the installers get their installers certified because it raises everybody, gets everybody going, Man, my adrenaline's kicked in. I'm getting excited.
Seth Heckaman:
:Good stuff. Thank you. And that's exactly what I was looking for. Facts and figures will come, but those type of stories are already proven the value of this, so that's awesome.
Todd Miller:
:You know, the thing I keep thinking about is, you know how nice it would be to see this sort of thing be kicked off in other trades as well, not just roofing. And, you know, I think I'm not sure VSI, Vinyl Siding Institute, has anything quite like this, but I do think there have been a few organizations look at. But I'm kind of curious, as NRCA went down this path of developing ProCertification, were there any real concerns you had to keep high in mind? I mean, one thing I know that, you know, gets bandied about a lot. Any time you talk about a certification program either from a manufacturer or a trade association is, you know, how do I train, how do I recognize people, but yet not necessarily take on liability for their work at the same time, too. So were there any big questions like that that NRCA had to tackle that you know, you think you came up with good responses to?
Jared Ribble:
:Your question about liability is is fair. I'm going to go back to the example of the driver's license. The state of Tennessee gave me a driver's license, but they are not liable if I get into a car accident, you know, so without. I will talk out of turn. If I start to act like a lawyer, I am not. We have an attorney that goes through our documents and make sure that we have t's crossed and i's dotted and we have a whole risk assessment department that that makes sure that that is that that we are inbounds there. But there is just a reality. A certification on its own does not suggest warranty at all. So but it does suggest, like the driver's license, you and I can be on a road and we can have some level of confidence that we know what we're doing.So that was something that we kept in mind. But I wanted to take your question and say some other things that we really kept top of mind when we were building out a systems certification. And first off is that we try to keep that certification nationally recognized. And what does that mean? It means that we know that workers can be transient, so if I earn my asphalt shingle certification, can I move to another state and knock on that contractor's door and say, hire me, I've got, I'm NRCA Pro Certified Asphalt Shingler. That contractor can have some level of confidence that I can do details in their state. Now, there might be some nuances in that, and we ran into that. Well, we don't nail metal that way or we do the valleys slightly different or we don't do as much sulfate here in the underlayment, as maybe what you're going to have to do in the North. But we did reduce it down to skills. Does this installer have the skill to put on self-adhered underlayment? Does this installer have the skill to nail edge metal. And let's keep it, we had to keep our experts from diving into code and well, we don't do it that way here. Like it doesn't matter. Do you nail? Do you pick up a hammer and nail? Well, yeah, okay. We just want to make sure that you're driving the nails straight. We want to make sure you're cutting the asphalt shingle around the pipe properly. You're doing the headwall properly or the sidewall properly, and we can we take codes out of it, we insert skill. It's all about the skill. So the challenge, clay and concrete tile is a great example. That was a really tough one because what they do in Florida is dramatically different than what they do in Las Vegas. So we have had to nuance and say high winds zone. If you take this certification assessment and you do it this way, you're going to get an extra designation that says clay and concrete tile high winds zone. Because what we also don't want to do is we don't want a hurricane to happen in Florida. And then we get a bunch of installers from Vegas coming into Florida with a certification saying, I know how to do clay and concrete tile. Wait a minute, you don't know how to do clay concrete tile this way.
Todd Miller:
:Mm hmm.
Jared Ribble:
:You have to have the high wind zone certification in order to be qualified to do it here. So there are there's there are some challenges there. And we think we're landing on some things with high wind zone variations. But generally, the challenge was to keep it national. And then what was so cool about it and, you know, you mentioned NSA, and I'll use the slate certification as an example. We had couriers come in. We had the National Slate Association and the Slate Roofing Contractors Association and the NRCA and Brian Chalsma. Those guys coming in as contractors and they all worked together to build out the spec of what is required for this certification. It wasn't Jared sitting in his cubicle saying, Hmm, I want to see them fastened this way. It was the manufacturers, the contractors, the installers all coming together as as one unit to say this is what's going to be good for our industry. And I, I get really, honestly, really adrenalized when I see people coming together. And it's not just coming out of one source, but all of us coming together, working for the good of the industry just gets me so jacked up, you know. And to be able to watch that process was really cool. But it was also a challenge because one manufacturer is well, we do it this way. One manufacturer is, we do it that way. Well, what's the skill that's required to do that? And it was great fun.
Todd Miller:
:Good stuff. Well, I'm curious. This has been great information on ProCertification. Can you share with us anything about other activities going on in our NRCA these days?
Jared Ribble:
:I mean, great question. And NRCA, the National Roofing Contractors Association. At our core, we are a group of contractors all working together to solve problems and all working together to help each other find solutions to our our industry's biggest challenges. We talked about workforce development, that ends up where I tend to live mostly. So I'm going to speak to that. But what is NRCA doing to help contractors with workforce development? We worked to create training curriculum with the NRCA to get that into trade schools. Already talked about that a little bit. Contractors, get into the trade schools and help out. We've created a way for you to funnel great quality workers into your company. Then we've created a way to have ongoing training inside your company. So we've created the tools, training plans, web-based content that is right at your fingertips to continue training these workers inside your company. The Qualified Trainer program is a part of that, teaching and raising up one of your workers to be a great trainer inside your company. And then that all leads to a certified professional installer. So the entire workforce development path is developed for you. All you got to do is step in and take the pieces that is going to help your company. So the entire train, the entire workforce development train is right at your fingertips. So get involved and take advantage of the solutions that are right there.
Todd Miller:
:One of the things I want to mention too, I love your podcast, Stories of an Extraordinary Industry. So well done. You've had some great guests. Can you tell us a little bit about some of the guests, some of the things you hope to accomplish through that show? You're, what, maybe 15 episodes or so in? I forget the exact number, but we'd love to hear more.
Jared Ribble:
:But I would like to correct you on that. I think we're at 33 or 34.
Todd Miller:
:Are you really? Oh, wow.
Jared Ribble:
:Yeah. I'll tell you how how the whole thing came about, because it might be interesting. So our former CEO, he'd always dreamed of having an NRCA podcast. Of course, there's never a capacity to do that kind of stuff. But unbeknownst to me, he's out on the road talking with people, and he started recording conversations that he would be having with a manufacturer president or a really great, you know, contractor member, etc.. So he's recording conversations and then the pandemic happens. And he then naturally assumes, because I come from the music world and production world, he's like, You're not out on the road teaching classes anymore. Here, do this. Little did he know pandemic happens and we were in a massive changeover of being able to turn all of our classes into virtual options. So it wasn't like I was busy. However, nonetheless drops all of these recordings on my desk and says, Make a podcast. Okay, so I start listening to these conversations. And I start hearing stories. Incredible stories that were I mean just fascinating for for are sharing a story about how every Ronald McDonald House in the U.S. will never have to worry about their roofing. Because every Ronald McDonald House has been adopted by a roofing company or roofing companies in that area. So they never will have to pay for maintenance or any kind of roofing work on a Ronald McDonald House. 161 Ronald McDonald Houses across the country. How did that happen? Well found out the story and we told the story and then started to hear stuff like when 9/11 happened and the Pentagon got hit. Not one taxpayer dime went into reroofing the Pentagon because roofing companies banded together. Manufacturers banded together. Home Depot banded together and donated the reroof of the Pentagon. How did that all happen? So we started to tell these stories. And it was just so I started to hear all this and like, wait a minute, this is, we got some cool stories to be proud of. No more shuffling feet at a holiday party. I'm just a roofer. No way. Roofers are doing extraordinary things, and we got to tell those stories. And as I'm sifting through, sifting through the content, I also started to realize I am learning a ton. These are really smart, wise people. So we ended up with a podcast that's, we're telling stories to make the industry proud and that we can learn something. And I'm 44 years old and, you know, I've got a lot to learn. And if other 44 year olds are out there listening, maybe they're able to learn some of this stuff, too. So it's really fun to do. And and we put a lot of effort into them. So I don't take it lightly. And it means the world to me for you to give it high praise. We put a lot of effort into it and boy, we sure hope that the listeners get a lot out of it as well.
Todd Miller:
:Well, I certainly encourage everyone to check it out, that's for sure, because it is a great show. So Stories of an Extraordinary Industry. Good stuff. So, man, I tell you Jared, you're just, I can tell you're passionate, you're excited about what you do. And, you know, I kind of sense that, you know, one of the driving factors really is for you, you know, recognizing this industry and recognizing the workers in this industry. I'm just kind of curious to me, is there any other overriding goal that really drives you to have this level of excitement and enthusiasm and passion? Where does that come from for you?
Jared Ribble:
:Two life-changing, they're small, two life-changing situations happened to me. And the first one I was probably at ten years old. My older brother was two years older than me, he's 12. And I don't know what happened in this conversation between my brother and my dad, but my brother popped off to my dad like a good 12-year-old is going to do. And he pops off. He's like, Well, you're just a roofer.
Todd Miller:
:Hmm.
Jared Ribble:
:Holy cow. I don't know. My dad slapped him back so hard, not physically. Yeah, I'm just a roofer. My hard work built this great house, gives you education, puts clothes on your back, feeds you. Go stand out in the rain next time it's raining without a roof and you tell me I'm just a roofer. Well, we got a problem with our kids not recognizing and understanding that roofers are very valuable. Go stand out in the rain.
Todd Miller:
:Yeah.
Jared Ribble:
:Fast forward now. Jared goes off and becomes a rock star. Dad sells his company. And dad says, you know what? I'm going to run for Congress. Okay, so my dad's running for Congress and, you know, he's on one side of the aisle, his competitor's on the other side of the aisle. We all understand our two party system. And his competitor did not run on ideology. And the political ideology. He poked at my dad because he was just a roofer. Go stand out in the rain and tell me he's just a roofer, okay? So those two moments in my life watching now, it's just profound. We are not just roofers.
Todd Miller:
:Yep.
Jared Ribble:
:We protect everything you hold dear. It deserves respect and we have to start standing up and saying we are not just roofers. I deserve a professional credential that shows I am awesome and I deserve to be hired and I deserve to not shuffle my feet when I'm at a holiday party. Go stand out in the rain and tell me how valuable I am. That's why I'm passionate about it.
Todd Miller:
:That's good stuff. I'm glad you shared those stories, too. And just for those who don't know, your dad did go on to win that race and he spent some time in D.C. And yeah, fantastic. In fact, that was where I first met him was in his D.C. office. Good stuff.
Jared Ribble:
:Yeah.
Todd Miller:
:Well, Jared, this has been great. Incredibly informative. Just so neat to see your passion and everything. We we really are close to wrapping up the what we call the business end of things. Is there anything we haven't covered today that you would like to cover?
Jared Ribble:
:I appreciate asking the question. The only thing that's left to cover is NRCA, the National Roofing Contractors Association, we are here to serve you. We are here to help you. If you need something, you gotta call. If you're not a member, you gotta call. Just call us. We are here to help you. And from my desk, the certification desk. You want to get your workers certified, or if you are a worker and you want to get certified, call me. Call us. We will get you on the path. So we're here to serve you. Give us a call.
Todd Miller:
:I'm glad you mention that, because I kind of realized I skipped over that earlier as far as how someone could get involved. So. So there are opportunities both for companies to get their folks involved in ProCertification and also individuals. Is that correct?
Jared Ribble:
:Yeah, it's an individual certification. If you are an installer and you want to earn it, you just call us up and we'll get you in the path. If you are a roofing company, you say, I've got some guys that really deserve this and I want to honor them. Well, call us up and we'll get them on the path. So just call us. We're here to serve you.
Todd Miller:
:Good stuff. Well, thank you. So before we close out, I do have to ask you if you're willing to participate in something we call our rapid fire questions. So these are seven questions. Some may be serious, some may be silly. All you got to do is give an answer. And our audience understands that Jared has no idea what we're about to ask. So are you up to the challenge of rapid fire?
Jared Ribble:
:Yes, my adrenaline is kicked in. I've no idea. I could just completely embarrass myself. My kids might disown me. I don't know. But I'll give it a shot.
Todd Miller:
:It's all fun. Okay, well, seven questions. We will alternate. Seth, do you want to ask the first one?
Seth Heckaman:
:Sure. Alright, here we go. Rapid fire question number one. You're trying to survive a zombie apocalypse. What one person do you most want on your team?
Jared Ribble:
:My wife.
Seth Heckaman:
:Good answer.
Todd Miller:
:I had a feeling that would be your answer.
Jared Ribble:
:No, guys, she is, you know, a figurative rock star. She is a rock star. Oh man. She is Wonder Woman. You want my wife in your foxhole if there's a problem. Yeah, my wife is awesome.
Todd Miller:
:Well, I had the opportunity to talk to her a little bit this week, and I could tell that so I could vouch for everything that you're saying. Question number two. If you had to eat a crayon, what color of crayon would you choose to eat?
Jared Ribble:
:Blue because it might taste like blueberry slushie.
Todd Miller:
:There you go. That makes sense. I don't think it will but good luck with that.
Seth Heckaman:
:Question number three. What do you most want to be remembered for?
Jared Ribble:
:That I was a good dad.
Todd Miller:
:Mm hmm.
Jared Ribble:
:Yeah, that'd be cool.
Todd Miller:
:Shout out to all the dads out there. I hear you.
Jared Ribble:
:Yeah, that's a tough job. Moms have a tough job, too. But, yeah, I was a good dad. If my kids said that, I'd be good.
Todd Miller:
:Good stuff. Okay. Are you a morning person or more of a night owl? I'm thinking with those rock star routes, maybe a night owl, but I don't know.
Jared Ribble:
:I actually am at my best early in the morning.
Todd Miller:
:Good for you.Yeah, that tends to be me, too. Although any more, as I get older, about 8:00 or 9:00, I'm toast.
Jared Ribble:
:Yes. I mean, sure. Back in the day, sure I had to stay up late. And when that, when your life is set up that way, you do it. But yeah, if I can get up early, it's getting to a point now where I don't. I block off my calendar like after 2:30. Don't even book a meeting with me. I'm not going to be any good for you. Get me at 8, get me at 9 a.m.. That's when I'm firing on all the best cylinders, you know?
Todd Miller:
:Good stuff.
Seth Heckaman:
:What is a product you have purchased recently that has been a real game changer for you?
Jared Ribble:
:Okay, alright. I'm going to totally embarrass myself. And I think we can keep this all reasonably, reasonably PG, PG 13. Great quality underwear. Get good quality underwear. I mean, the kind that you can't put in the dryer that you have to air dry. Good quality underwear will change your life. If you're buying a pack of Hanes from Wal-Mart, you are missing out. Find good quality underwear and dive in. And this smile is probably because of the underwear.
Seth Heckaman:
:So do you have a brand recommendation? Can you set us on a path towards good quality underwear?
Jared Ribble:
:I personally subscribe to the underwear called Me, M-E, Undies, MeUndies.
Seth Heckaman:
:Okay.
Jared Ribble:
:Check them out and they will put a smile on your face. And they don't pay me to even say that.
Seth Heckaman:
:Awesome.
Todd Miller:
:Good stuff. I may need to check those out. So a few years ago, I kind of made a little transition into Pair of Thieves. But I think MeUndies might be a step or two above that.
Jared Ribble:
:So I will tell you. Hey, I know Pair of Thieves. I know the cost of Pair of Thieves. Same price, twice the experience.
Todd Miller:
:Wow.
Seth Heckaman:
:Experience, never mind.
Jared Ribble:
:It's an experience.
Todd Miller:
:Oh, okay. Is it up to? Oh, it's my question. Okay. Oh, I always love this question. So what non-family person have you had regular contact with for the most years? Perhaps a childhood friend you've stayed connected with or something like that? Someone who you're not related to, but you have had contact with them the longest?
Jared Ribble:
:Yeah, I mean, yeah, a childhood friend. I don't know. I don't have an exciting story at the moment. I'm sure I could. But I've got a childhood friend. We went to a summer camp together every year and we wrote letters in between us back when you actually write letters. And we have stayed in touch ever since. I'm so proud of him. He and his wife are doctors out on the West Coast and doing incredible work for cancer research and ovarian cancer and all this kind of stuff. And they're changing the world in the cancer world. I'm just super, super proud of them. I like to be able to brag that My friends are smarter than me and more successful than me. Maybe I can get up to their level, you know. But I've known him for the longest since I was about four or five.
Seth Heckaman:
:Wow.
Todd Miller:
:Wow.
Jared Ribble:
:Even maybe younger.
Todd Miller:
:Cool answer. I like it. Okay, last question Seth.
Seth Heckaman:
:What is your favorite meal?
Jared Ribble:
:My favorite meal is not the one that's good for me, of course, is pizza. There is not a pizza that I've ever not liked. I don't care if it's frozen Jack's pizza or frozen Digiorno or Giordano's from Chicago or I don't care if it's Sbarro from the mall or the airport. If it's pizza, there's not a pizza that I have not put in my mouth that I didn't like.
Seth Heckaman:
:Hard to beat.
Todd Miller:
:Hard to beat. I agree. Although I do like a wildfire steak with a little horseradish crust on top. That's awfully good too.
Jared Ribble:
:Well, yes. I mean, there are some fancy things in life without a doubt. You know, there's great steakhouses across the country, and we were fortunate to be able to eat out. Yeah, that's what you're saying. That is awesome. But if the everyday commoner, you know, I'm not concerned about pizza.
Todd Miller:
:Pizza's good. Good answer. Oh, okay. So I need to let our audience know. I learned in this episode Jared is an extreme overachiever, so we were all successful with our challenge words. In fact, Jared was successful about a half dozen times.
Jared Ribble:
:What do I win? What do I win?
Todd Miller:
:Absolutely nothing.
Seth Heckaman:
:A certification, we'll certify you as a quality challenge word player.
Todd Miller:
:Yeah, A qualified construction disruption guest. How's that go?
Jared Ribble:
:I like it.
Todd Miller:
:So, Jared, your word was?
Jared Ribble:
:Adrenaline! Do you sense that I've had some adrenaline today? And by the way, I have no caffeine in my system. And can you imagine if I did? I have a, my wife has a strict no caffeine policy for Jared when we go on a long trip because I'm just bouncing all over the car. Adrenaline, that was my word.
Todd Miller:
:I have to do that to my wife, to a man. She gets a little caffeine and it's crazy. So, Seth, your word was?
Seth Heckaman:
:Fiddlesticks.
Todd Miller:
:You worked it in well. And my word was syncopated. I'm not even 100% sure I used it right, but I think it came off okay.
Jared Ribble:
:No, you did. You got it in there early on. That's great.
Todd Miller:
:Well, Jared, this has been a real pleasure and great deal of information here. So thank you. So for folks who would want to get in touch with you or to learn more about ProCertification, I know you said earlier they can just call you. But, you know, what are the easiest ways for someone to learn more to get in contact with you?
Jared Ribble:
:Sure. Easiest thing to remember is nrca.net. Four letters dot net N-R-C-A.net. My contact info is right there. Just got to do a click or two. You'll find my contact, you'll find my email and nrca.net. Contact me, we'll get you hooked up. Anything we can do to help you, we're going to be there.
Todd Miller:
:Fantastic. Well, thank you so much, Jared. This has been great. We really enjoyed it.
Jared Ribble:
:Glad to be here.
Todd Miller:
:And I want to thank our audience, too, for tuning into this episode of Construction Disruption with Jared Ribble, R-I-B-B-L-E, Vice President of Certification for NRCA and Director of their Qualified Trainer program. So we encourage you to please watch for future episodes of our podcast. We're always blessed with great guests just like this episode. Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or YouTube, we love those. And until the next time we're together, keep on disrupting. Don't forget to to have a positive impact on everyone you encounter. Make them smile, encourage them. Two simple yet powerful things we can all do to change the world. So God bless and take care. This is Isaiah Industries signing off until the next episode of Construction Disruption.
Todd Miller:
:Intro/Outro: This podcast is produced by Isaiah Industries, a manufacturer of specialty metal roofing and other building products.