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Future of RFID at Retail with Nedap (Part 1)
Episode 3417th May 2023 • Supply Chain LEAD Podcast • Supply Chain LEAD Podcast
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Join Mike Graen for Part 1 of his conversation as he discusses the future of RFID at Retail with Elena Verplanck from the Nedap company, including best practice use cases for leveraging RFID to know what you have and where it is.

Transcripts

Mike Graen:

Greetings. My name is Mike Graen. Welcome to

Mike Graen:

another University of Arkansas Supply Chain Management Research

Mike Graen:

Council. Today we are joined by Elena from Nedap. She is a

Mike Graen:

Operations Manager director inside of Nedap. She spends a

Mike Graen:

lot of time working with retailers on RFID

Mike Graen:

implementations and is really successful at trying to explain

Mike Graen:

some of the best practices to make RFID work inside a retail

Mike Graen:

organization. Let's join our podcast in progress. Oh, good

Mike Graen:

morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, wherever you might be

Mike Graen:

this fine day today. It's one o'clock central time, on Good

Mike Graen:

Friday. And I've got the pleasure of having Elena from

Mike Graen:

Nedap to join us. We're laughing a little bit ago because I told

Mike Graen:

her that we wanted to jump on the call, but 15 minutes early.

Mike Graen:

And I gave her a time of why don't we go ahead and jump out

Mike Graen:

at 12:45. And she said, "Why would I drop jump on an hour and

Mike Graen:

15 minutes early?" I forgot she was on the east coast. So Elena,

Mike Graen:

with Nedap, would you please unmute just kind of introduce

Mike Graen:

yourself to our audience.

Elena Verplanck:

So I've been with Nedap for just four years

Elena Verplanck:

now a couple weeks ago. I started here as the operations

Elena Verplanck:

manager on the EAS side. And a couple of years ago, took on the

Elena Verplanck:

software side, though the inventory management group

Elena Verplanck:

rolled under me. So it's been I've been able to hit both sides

Elena Verplanck:

of our house. So really exciting. And, you know, it's

Elena Verplanck:

been, it's been really like the best place to work, I have to

Elena Verplanck:

say, really unusual place. So neat app is a global company.

Elena Verplanck:

We're headquartered out of the Netherlands, and we're a

Elena Verplanck:

technology company with a few different business units. That

Elena Verplanck:

all focus on. We like to say technology for life, making

Elena Verplanck:

people's lives better. And like I said, I'm in the retail space.

Elena Verplanck:

So for us, it's the EAS side as well as inventory management.

Elena Verplanck:

And yeah, it's just it's a really special, really special

Elena Verplanck:

company, really different organization than your typical

Elena Verplanck:

us or North American company. So it's been a great experience and

Elena Verplanck:

have really loved it.

Mike Graen:

The company is located in the Netherlands.

Mike Graen:

You're you're located on the east coast, right? The Boston

Mike Graen:

area?

Elena Verplanck:

Yeah. So we're, so we're global. So we have

Elena Verplanck:

offices all over the globe. I'm located in Boston, at our

Elena Verplanck:

Boston, US headquarters, and like, yeah, we're located. The

Elena Verplanck:

actual HQ is in the Netherlands. It's in. We actually just had

Elena Verplanck:

the CEO here yesterday, and he was practicing with me how to

Elena Verplanck:

say I say hello, but it's you're supposed to roll that GNR and

Elena Verplanck:

their data at it, but they're located a few hours from

Elena Verplanck:

Amsterdam, so.

Mike Graen:

So did you learn how to do it, do you want to give us

Mike Graen:

a demonstration in front of everybody? And he will probably

Mike Graen:

see this podcast and see how much you learned.

Elena Verplanck:

Well my boss is probably like, come on, you can

Elena Verplanck:

say it. It's Groenlo, you have to like oh, and I just can't do

Elena Verplanck:

that throaty thing thing, but but that's okay. They they let

Elena Verplanck:

me they let me take a path. And he when I said, I said oh, I'm

Elena Verplanck:

coming to Groenlo next week, and he was like, "where?" And I was

Elena Verplanck:

like, Oh, Groenlo. And he's like, ah, and then yesterday,

Elena Verplanck:

all day, he was like, "Where are you going?" And I'm like, Okay,

Elena Verplanck:

let's try it again. So anyway.

Mike Graen:

He will greet you at the door and say, "Where are you

Mike Graen:

now?"

Elena Verplanck:

Exactly. That's exactly what he'll do. That's

Elena Verplanck:

exact, actually, he probably really will do that, which is

Elena Verplanck:

another one of those things that makes it a really special

Elena Verplanck:

company.

Mike Graen:

That's awesome. That's awesome. That's terrific.

Elena Verplanck:

It's a great place.

Mike Graen:

You know, we make some fun and sometimes and I

Mike Graen:

know this is not part of the podcast, but you know, people

Mike Graen:

say you spend a third of your life sleeping, you spend a third

Mike Graen:

of your life doing you know, spend time with family and

Mike Graen:

friends, etc. And you spend a third of your time time in your

Mike Graen:

life working. And so I spend a lot of time with people who are

Mike Graen:

just miserable at their jobs and I go it's a third of your life.

Mike Graen:

Go find something that you love to do and get somebody to pay

Mike Graen:

for it. While I can't leave. You can go go figure out where you

Mike Graen:

really feel like you're having a lot of fun. And then do that for

Mike Graen:

work. I think it's a much more rewarding thing.

Elena Verplanck:

You know, my father in law we my family owned

Elena Verplanck:

my husband's family bought - and mine - but my husband's

Elena Verplanck:

family owned a business. A retail store actually. And my

Elena Verplanck:

father in law used to say to my kids do something from Money and

Elena Verplanck:

you'll, you'll just never be happy. Find something you love.

Elena Verplanck:

And you will make money and you will be good at it, and you will

Elena Verplanck:

have happiness. And it really, it really stuck with me because

Elena Verplanck:

he truly he worked until six months before he died at 86

Elena Verplanck:

years old because he truly loved what he did. And the thing about

Elena Verplanck:

my coming to Nate app was obviously, you know, I have 20

Elena Verplanck:

years or so whatever, have a career before that, and never

Elena Verplanck:

worked at any place. That was awful. But just, it was this

Elena Verplanck:

place is different. It's a different culture, they talk

Elena Verplanck:

about it. And when I interview people, and I try, you know, and

Elena Verplanck:

I'm like bringing them on, they're like, well tell me about

Elena Verplanck:

the company. And I'm like, it's really special. It's a family.

Elena Verplanck:

They care about you. You know, we obviously care about making

Elena Verplanck:

money, right? It's a company. But that's not the number one

Elena Verplanck:

goal. And it truly is a place where you can, you can you can

Elena Verplanck:

do what you love, and everybody's respected and

Elena Verplanck:

everybody's equal. It's just, it's a really special

Elena Verplanck:

organization that until you get here, you don't get it. And then

Elena Verplanck:

once you get here, people look at me go, Oh, now I get it. Now

Elena Verplanck:

I get it. And yeah, I've just it's really been it's been a

Elena Verplanck:

great four years, and people here have worked here for 25,

Elena Verplanck:

30, 40 years. It's just like, Wait, watch. It's fully you, you

Elena Verplanck:

You love it. So it's a great organization.

Mike Graen:

Okay, for all of the attendees, go ahead and send

Mike Graen:

your resume to www.nedap.com

Elena Verplanck:

Honestly, honestly, if you're looking if

Elena Verplanck:

you're looking for, for a great place to be Nedap is it. Yeah.

Elena Verplanck:

That's, I love it. I love it. So I'm obviously biased. That's

Elena Verplanck:

awesome.

Mike Graen:

That's awesome. Well, let's go ahead and let's

Mike Graen:

go ahead and transition into our topic. And I really enjoy the

Mike Graen:

topic of on shelf availability. And the reason I like it is

Mike Graen:

every one of us are an industry professional focused on on shelf

Mike Graen:

availability, you happen to be part of a company that I think

Mike Graen:

provides an incredible platform in software, to be able to

Mike Graen:

expose on hands and make sure people know what they have and

Mike Graen:

know where it's located, etc. But here's always the other

Mike Graen:

interesting thing. We all take our work hat off and we put our

Mike Graen:

customer hat on and we go shopping, right? And so one of

Mike Graen:

the questions that I love to ask people, and I've done this for

Mike Graen:

almost a year now and it's just amazing, some of the stories

Mike Graen:

because nobody, nobody has a unique story like the person who

Mike Graen:

was last time, which is Tell me about a time where you as a

Mike Graen:

customer, not as a business professional, as a customer

Mike Graen:

wanted to go and get a product that you thought they had in

Mike Graen:

stock in store, you went to that store and you were disappointed.

Mike Graen:

I'm sure you have one of those examples.

Elena Verplanck:

Well, yeah, like is that I have many. I

Elena Verplanck:

actually think this is really funny because this literally

Elena Verplanck:

just happened. So um, yes, I am a shopper. But um, so my husband

Elena Verplanck:

retired couple years ago. So he's officially become the the

Elena Verplanck:

shopper in our house. So basically I'm like, today, can

Elena Verplanck:

you can you go to the store? Can you go to the cleaners? Can you

Elena Verplanck:

pick up this? Can you pick up that?

Mike Graen:

And by the way, be careful because I'm looking at

Mike Graen:

the audience. And if your husband's name is Edward, he's

Mike Graen:

he's stalking you at work.

Elena Verplanck:

Could be! I said to him a couple of weeks

Elena Verplanck:

ago, I said, Hey, can you do me a favor? I need you to go to

Elena Verplanck:

this particular store. I've checked online I need you to

Elena Verplanck:

pick me up lip liner. And so for all of your listeners who

Elena Verplanck:

aren't, you know, wearing lip liner, it's very important thing

Elena Verplanck:

for some of us. So I said can you do me a favor? Can you go

Elena Verplanck:

can you pick it up? And he was like, Oh Lord, like what am I

Elena Verplanck:

getting? I said, I'm gonna send you a picture message of the

Elena Verplanck:

brand. It's fine. I already checked. They've got it just

Elena Verplanck:

buzz-in. It's just right there. Pick it up. So he goes, they

Elena Verplanck:

don't have it. He leaves comes home. They don't have it. I'm

Elena Verplanck:

like, Oh my god. Okay, fine. So, couple days later, I'm like,

Elena Verplanck:

I'll go I'll look. So I go in bed and have it again. So a

Elena Verplanck:

couple days later, I said, Oh, hey, can you do me a favor? I

Elena Verplanck:

looked. I swear other store. They have it? Just go, please. I

Elena Verplanck:

know they have it. Okay. He goes in, they don't have it. He says

Elena Verplanck:

to the sales associate. This is a second time in here. Do you

Elena Verplanck:

have this? And she's like, Oh, no, we're out of stock. Sorry.

Elena Verplanck:

And he's like, okay, and she's like, well, you can you can buy

Elena Verplanck:

that since it's the same. So he buys it. He brings it home. I

Elena Verplanck:

come home from work. It's sitting on the table. I said

Elena Verplanck:

what is this? He said that's the stuff you've asked for. They

Elena Verplanck:

didn't have the one you want it but the lady says that's the

Elena Verplanck:

same as Okay, two things. Number one, no, this is not the same.

Elena Verplanck:

And to like now I'm totally irritated like it's been three

Elena Verplanck:

trips and I'm just gonna go online and have it shipped. And

Elena Verplanck:

it'll be here when it gets here. And so yes, so that was my

Elena Verplanck:

little frustrating thing. And I was and he was funny because

Elena Verplanck:

he's like, do they not have the thing that you do? Like, why is

Elena Verplanck:

it that I'm like? Like, yes, yes, that is a very good, I need

Elena Verplanck:

to call this retailer, actually, I need one of our salespeople to

Elena Verplanck:

call this retailer because Ned doesn't want to go through this

Elena Verplanck:

ever again. So.

Mike Graen:

And by the way, we we use that example, oftentimes,

Mike Graen:

as a real good example, whether it's printer cartridges for your

Mike Graen:

printer, or hair color, you know, I've got a specific hair

Mike Graen:

color I'm looking for, lipstick and cosmetics. Cosmetics is a

Mike Graen:

huge opportunity. They're a little bit more difficult to

Mike Graen:

tag, but we'll get into some of that later. But bottom line is

Mike Graen:

That's it. That's an industry that screams for onhand accuracy

Mike Graen:

and making sure you got the product available for a customer

Mike Graen:

because customers want sweat. I mean, you're good example. What

Mike Graen:

is this? This is not what I asked for Go bring it.

Elena Verplanck:

Same and I'm like, it is just no, you just

Elena Verplanck:

don't get it. This isn't the same. And yeah, and I'm sure she

Elena Verplanck:

was the salesperson was like here, just buy this and go away.

Elena Verplanck:

And he was more than happy to go away. Let me tell you, but But

Elena Verplanck:

honestly, like, I was annoyed I was I was really annoyed. But

Elena Verplanck:

you're right. It's a it's a really difficult industry, but

Elena Verplanck:

one that could use some help.

Mike Graen:

Yeah, goes to goes to inventory about lipsticks,

Mike Graen:

I'm sure. It's a very big problem. Yeah, for sure. Well,

Mike Graen:

that's a good, that's a good example. That's a good segue

Mike Graen:

into, okay, why should that particular retailer, implement

Mike Graen:

RFID? And specifically, the needy app solution? Because I

Mike Graen:

think you guys tell us a little bit about need app and tell us

Mike Graen:

kind of what kind of services you provide to the industry.

Elena Verplanck:

So I'm particularly on a real sales

Elena Verplanck:

solution. So inventory management, really giving the

Elena Verplanck:

retailer as well as the customer, right? Because when

Elena Verplanck:

you're giving the retailer visibility into their entire

Elena Verplanck:

ecosystem, right? You're, you're giving that to the customer as

Elena Verplanck:

well. So our solution allows a retailer to understand where

Elena Verplanck:

within the ecosystem product is, so that they have the right

Elena Verplanck:

stock at the right time. It doesn't help anybody to have,

Elena Verplanck:

you know, 100 bathing suits sitting in the backroom in

Elena Verplanck:

January or, you know, taking up space, right? Like you don't

Elena Verplanck:

need that right now. It's January, like where are coats

Elena Verplanck:

like? And do we have the right product available at the right

Elena Verplanck:

time. So our solution allows for that our solution? Also, I think

Elena Verplanck:

one of the things that makes our solution, really special is the

Elena Verplanck:

interface is the ease of ease of use. It's it's an easy solution

Elena Verplanck:

for the store associates them, that tends to be a lot of the

Elena Verplanck:

feedback that we get from the folks, you know, actually using

Elena Verplanck:

the product day to day. So forget leadership, forget

Elena Verplanck:

stakeholders, just the, you know, the folks at the store

Elena Verplanck:

level and a lot of times, you know, I'm not the person that

Elena Verplanck:

obviously goes into the store. It's the sales, folks. But

Elena Verplanck:

they'll come back and they'll tell stories of how the

Elena Verplanck:

salespeople were like, can we keep this? We don't get it back

Elena Verplanck:

today? Do we like, Wait? No. When are we getting it? Because

Elena Verplanck:

it doesn't make life really easy. And anybody who's ever I'm

Elena Verplanck:

probably very much dating myself. But you know, those

Elena Verplanck:

physical inventories were, you know, I worked at the store, it

Elena Verplanck:

was called Cherry Web and Train when I was probably like 20. And

Elena Verplanck:

they would talk about how amazing and fun. The inventory

Elena Verplanck:

was new. We're like going to be in the store all night. It'd be

Elena Verplanck:

super cool. And we're going to order pizza. Well buy 1 in the

Elena Verplanck:

morning, you're like, This is not cool. This is not fun. And

Elena Verplanck:

I'm sick of counting these stupid T shirts. And so our

Elena Verplanck:

product just changes that whole landscape makes it easier for

Mike Graen:

Yeah, every time I've been involved with that

Mike Graen:

everybody.

Mike Graen:

I've just about finished that one rack or that one set of

Mike Graen:

shelves and somebody says excuse me have a question. And I answer

Mike Graen:

the question. I come back. Where was I? Oh my gosh, I got to

Mike Graen:

start all over again. So yeah, literally put a load to put a

Mike Graen:

card in between Okay, let Hang on one second and put a card

Mike Graen:

there. Now. What's your question? Now? Come back because

Mike Graen:

I didn't want to ever do that again.

Elena Verplanck:

Yeah, and don't touch Don't touch this whole,

Elena Verplanck:

like don't know, you can't buy it. You can't touch it. Don't?

Elena Verplanck:

Don't worry. It dawns on tourists.

Mike Graen:

Aren't you a store? And Aren't I supposed to buy

Mike Graen:

stuff here? No, no, just go away? Well, that's why we'll get

Mike Graen:

into some of the best practices because that's really what I

Mike Graen:

want to spend some time talking to you about because there's,

Mike Graen:

you know, RFID and retail has been around for a while. It's

Mike Graen:

been a great solution, a huge enabler in terms of letting

Mike Graen:

people know exactly what they have and exactly where it's

Mike Graen:

located, whether it's in the backroom or sales floor. But But

Mike Graen:

the big part of this, from my perspective is okay, well how do

Mike Graen:

you use this thing and what what are the things that you really

Mike Graen:

want to watch out for? Is I engaged with retailers That way

Mike Graen:

you've been doing this for 20 years come tell us how to do it.

Mike Graen:

I said, I'm not going to tell you how to do it necessarily,

Mike Graen:

but I'm gonna tell you the 15 potholes that I have stepped in

Mike Graen:

in the past that you don't want to step in. And again, because

Mike Graen:

that I think is sometimes helpful. But we'll get into some

Mike Graen:

of that here in a little bit. So tell me tell us a little bit

Mike Graen:

about RFID. In retail, obviously, the one retailer who

Mike Graen:

had your let's lipstick definitely needs to adopt it.

Mike Graen:

But who are the retailers that are really taking advantage of

Mike Graen:

this from you guys's perspective? And? And where do

Mike Graen:

you see some of the growth coming from?

Elena Verplanck:

So, the retailers who are taste so we,

Elena Verplanck:

we do have a number of fashion retailers that that we work with

Elena Verplanck:

that are using? They're using our solution? I'm sitting here

Elena Verplanck:

over here going like, can I name drop? I'm not 100% sure.

Mike Graen:

So let's not just to be safe. But the type of Yeah,

Mike Graen:

I'm thinking about the type of retailers. Is it apparel? Is it

Mike Graen:

automotive? You know, we're using that? Were you seeing the

Mike Graen:

adoption curve kind of head?

Elena Verplanck:

Yeah, so you know, it's, it's, for us, it's

Elena Verplanck:

really fashion, it's really the apparel industry, that's taken

Elena Verplanck:

advantage of it. And it's probably where there's a

Elena Verplanck:

tremendous amount of opportunity, not just so it's

Elena Verplanck:

about, there's just so much data, right? I think that data

Elena Verplanck:

has become like, the hot word of like, the last probably five

Elena Verplanck:

years, like, Okay, you're collecting all this data, what

Elena Verplanck:

are you going to do with it? And that is RFID, right? It's

Elena Verplanck:

allowing you to know, where, where within your ecosystem,

Elena Verplanck:

that particular item has been. And that's, that's an

Elena Verplanck:

incredible, like, that gives a million use cases. So for for

Elena Verplanck:

us, it's now beyond just a physical count, being able to

Elena Verplanck:

count what you've got in the store. So that was the great

Elena Verplanck:

thing that was like the amazing, like, you know, moment like,

Elena Verplanck:

Okay, this is gonna, it's gonna save our sales associates

Elena Verplanck:

tremendous amount of time, it's, it's gonna give us visibility

Elena Verplanck:

into what we have, so that our retail our customers come in,

Elena Verplanck:

but like, what are the next steps that we can do that can

Elena Verplanck:

we, with, you know, refill, refilling from the stockroom to

Elena Verplanck:

the floor room refilling from off site, to the store to the

Elena Verplanck:

bathroom? The whole DC supply chain is probably the next huge

Elena Verplanck:

horizon of how this can really help folks in the next probably,

Elena Verplanck:

I don't know, a couple of years. So yeah, so that's definitely

Elena Verplanck:

where it's going along with just again, like there's just so many

Elena Verplanck:

use cases, did we ever have this item in our, in our ecosystem,

Elena Verplanck:

people come in, you know, a lot of retailers have this. Easy

Elena Verplanck:

return policy, right? You know, hey, just show up. It's okay, if

Elena Verplanck:

you don't have a receipt kind of deal? Well, you know, there's a

Elena Verplanck:

lot of, you know, bad actors out there and RFID. And that data

Elena Verplanck:

enable you to say, I'm sorry, but I don't think this was ever

Elena Verplanck:

sold in our store. Because it wasn't.

Mike Graen:

Or at least Could you show me your receipt? I

Mike Graen:

don't have one? Well, on the sorry: nine times out of ten.

Mike Graen:

We you'd be happy to take that back without a receipt for you.

Mike Graen:

It's now we really need the receipt. Sorry about that. I

Mike Graen:

think there's a watch out from accusing customers of doing

Mike Graen:

something you can't necessarily prove just saying, I really need

Mike Graen:

to have the receipt before you do that. And so and there have

Mike Graen:

been there have been situations where I have literally seen

Mike Graen:

people take product out the back of the store, walk around the

Mike Graen:

store, come back in and go, I'm returning this. And they they

Mike Graen:

try and get away with it for sure. For sure. It does happen,

Mike Graen:

right?

Elena Verplanck:

Oh, it's, uh, yeah, it's amazing. It's quite

Elena Verplanck:

amazing. Quite brazen. But, um, but yeah, but it happens. And,

Elena Verplanck:

you know, if you're the retailer, um, you know, you

Elena Verplanck:

just, you know, like I said, like, our family had a retail

Elena Verplanck:

store. And it was always like, pretty much always my husband,

Elena Verplanck:

my father in law would just say, You know what, take it back.

Elena Verplanck:

Take it back. It's not worth it. Take it back. I know we don't

Elena Verplanck:

sell it. I know we probably have never sold and he had there was

Elena Verplanck:

no RFID right. There was none of that it but it was just it was

Elena Verplanck:

good business. It was good practice because at the end of

Elena Verplanck:

the day, you don't know that is a potential customer. Right? You

Elena Verplanck:

don't want to annoy them and worse than annoying them. Is

Elena Verplanck:

them getting annoyed and then telling to friends and telling

Elena Verplanck:

to friends and so now suddenly, this one item that was 20 bucks

Elena Verplanck:

that you could have just gone yeah, fine here, whatever is

Elena Verplanck:

cost you you know that.

Mike Graen:

Let's transition a little bit into best-practices,

Mike Graen:

because that's something I'm pretty passionate about. And I

Mike Graen:

know you are as well, I think that's your kind of key role

Mike Graen:

from an operation standpoint and need AP is basically making sure

Mike Graen:

that our customers are successful because we're going

Mike Graen:

to do best practices. And, and let me categorize this a little

Mike Graen:

bit. Let's talk about First off, if RFID consists of a tag and a

Mike Graen:

reader, let's just talk about the tag first. So if you are

Mike Graen:

going to go and walk through with one of your customers, hey,

Mike Graen:

tagging, what types of tags should you use? What kind of

Mike Graen:

standard? Should you look at? Where do we tag it in the store?

Mike Graen:

Do we tag in the DC? Do we tag it upstream in the supply chain?

Mike Graen:

Just walk us through any kind of a best practices that you have

Mike Graen:

you ever come across in terms of your your experience doing this?

Elena Verplanck:

Okay, so yeah, so like I said, so I, you know,

Elena Verplanck:

operations is the group that I kind of manage, if you will, and

Elena Verplanck:

in terms of the, the, the tags, we so we need out, we don't do

Elena Verplanck:

tagging, that's not our that's not our thing. We have amazing

Elena Verplanck:

partners that, that do that stuff for us. So the first thing

Elena Verplanck:

we do, though, in terms of like a kind of a kickoff, looking at,

Elena Verplanck:

what do you have, if you're start if you're brand new, and

Elena Verplanck:

you're starting, okay? It's, it's optimal, I think, if you're

Elena Verplanck:

starting at the DC level, so if you can give yourself that, I

Elena Verplanck:

think the general rule of thumb is about six months or so to

Elena Verplanck:

kind of cycle through. So if you start tagging your product in

Elena Verplanck:

the DC, and start getting that product into the store, and then

Elena Verplanck:

you start having that, that changeover with what isn't

Elena Verplanck:

tagged to what is tagged. That's generally we just were doing an

Elena Verplanck:

implementation now with a retailer. And that was what they

Elena Verplanck:

did, they, they spent about six months, kind of starting in the

Elena Verplanck:

DC, and going through it to kind of get all that product out. And

Elena Verplanck:

it was probably it was hugely, hugely helpful. It makes more

Elena Verplanck:

sense. years ago, it used to be like what we would call a

Elena Verplanck:

tagging party. So you pick a few stores or kickoff stores, which

Elena Verplanck:

is still, I think, maybe depending on the size of your

Elena Verplanck:

retailer, or depending upon you know, which systems are in the

Elena Verplanck:

DC, what your practices are within the DCA, you might want

Elena Verplanck:

to do that have a tagging party where you literally are tagging,

Elena Verplanck:

you know, a couple of stores at a time. And to me that, that

Elena Verplanck:

sounds as terrible as a physical inventory. To be honest, it's

Elena Verplanck:

worse. It's worse than I think, like, it's just I think that's,

Elena Verplanck:

uh, that opens up your can of human error, right? And

Elena Verplanck:

obviously, we're using technology, we want to rely on

Elena Verplanck:

the technology. So why would we go ahead and introduce something

Elena Verplanck:

that could with, you know, all of this potential human

Elena Verplanck:

mistakes. So I think starting the tagging in the DCA, going

Elena Verplanck:

through it that way, getting everything properly tagged, and

Elena Verplanck:

then starting, you're okay. And then while you're doing that,

Elena Verplanck:

you're starting your big kickoff plan? How are we going to do

Elena Verplanck:

this understanding your roadmap, and that sort of thing?

Mike Graen:

Okay. So some of the big retailers out there, and

Mike Graen:

I'll just name a few of them, because they've gone pretty

Mike Graen:

public - Walmart and Nordstroms and folks like that - are asking

Mike Graen:

for suppliers to tag it at source. So when it comes off the

Mike Graen:

manufacturing line, put the tag on there. So that's coming into

Mike Graen:

the distribution centers, is that something that you would

Mike Graen:

support as well?

Elena Verplanck:

100% Yeah, I mean, I just think that, from

Elena Verplanck:

what so it for us, generally, a lot of the closed loop

Elena Verplanck:

retailers, they, it's just an easier, it's an easier start

Elena Verplanck:

with RFID, right, it's your product, you make it and that

Elena Verplanck:

kind of thing, you make it you can tag it, you have control

Elena Verplanck:

over it. So that's great. For the bigger chains, like the

Elena Verplanck:

Nordstrom suwama set or you know, getting in all sorts of

Elena Verplanck:

vendors, suppliers, it does become more tricky. So, but I do

Elena Verplanck:

think that the future is RFID the future is in the data. So it

Elena Verplanck:

just doesn't make any sense for retailers not to be doing it and

Elena Verplanck:

I i do like you've mentioned I do know that Nordstrom says

Elena Verplanck:

like, I don't know if it's a requirement or if it's just

Elena Verplanck:

highly encouraged at this point. But you know, you can tell

Elena Verplanck:

that's, that's where they're headed. And we went 100% It just

Elena Verplanck:

makes it makes our job once we come in so much easier.

Mike Graen:

Yeah, there's obviously pros and cons. Let me

Mike Graen:

tell you the con. The con of that is from the top let's just

Mike Graen:

say a major retailer has 5000 suppliers that they deal with.

Mike Graen:

And those suppliers are making a total of 40,000 items. That

Mike Graen:

means each one of those items have to be tagged, tagged

Mike Graen:

correctly, etc. And the amount of lead time, you have to

Mike Graen:

provide those suppliers, to make sure that using the right tag,

Mike Graen:

we recommend the Auburn arc spec to make sure that they're GS one

Mike Graen:

and coded correctly to make sure all these other kinds of things

Mike Graen:

and they're doing it consistently that once they

Mike Graen:

start tagging or having tag product come into the store, it

Mike Graen:

can't stop. Otherwise, you're going to have the same kind of

Mike Graen:

problems, that does take a long time it could take up to a year

Mike Graen:

before when the time you communicate to stuff comes in

Mike Graen:

tags. So the DC tagging is not a bad option. But I think

Mike Graen:

directionally most people are saying tag it at source, because

Mike Graen:

of what you said, which is the supply chain benefits of knowing

Mike Graen:

it just left that manufacturer in it's on the way here and

Mike Graen:

taking advantage of that, right.

Elena Verplanck:

Yeah. 100%. And yeah, you're right. The lead

Elena Verplanck:

time, the lead time in retail anyway, is, you know, it's a

Elena Verplanck:

year and a half, two years, at least. Right? So yeah, so and

Elena Verplanck:

that's the that's the whole thing about about RFID and about

Elena Verplanck:

implementing our solution is and when we hire new people, like

Elena Verplanck:

this is part of the conversation with them. They're like, Oh, my

Elena Verplanck:

gosh, why does everybody says it's weak? Because it's, this

Elena Verplanck:

isn't just turning on a dime, right? This is a submarine. This

Elena Verplanck:

is like, slowly, it's it's not just about, you know, hey, this

Elena Verplanck:

is a great, this is great. This is gonna bring us huge benefits,

Elena Verplanck:

it's gonna be a benefit to our customers. Let's do it. Let's do

Elena Verplanck:

it. Okay. It's going to take a year, a year and a half. It's a

Elena Verplanck:

long process, especially to do it right. It's a long process.

Mike Graen:

Yeah. Do you know of any manufacturer out there that

Mike Graen:

doesn't put a UPC barcode on their product these days?

Elena Verplanck:

Yeah, no.

Mike Graen:

Well, that's where it's going right, eventually.

Mike Graen:

And I think it's bigger than apparel. Because you see people

Mike Graen:

like Dick's Sporting Goods getting involved. You see

Mike Graen:

electronics companies being involved, you have a big

Mike Graen:

retailer like Walmart, who's basically looking for lots of

Mike Graen:

general merchandise to be tagged, it's eventually going to

Mike Graen:

be the new UPC for some, I don't think it'll be for all

Mike Graen:

categories. I think there's certain categories. Like I don't

Mike Graen:

see the day will ever put an RFID tag on a watermelon. I just

Mike Graen:

don't see it happening. But for a lot of the categories that

Mike Graen:

make sense that will become the new UPC. So I think this the

Mike Graen:

retailers who are asking for that are trying to set a

Mike Graen:

precedent that says we're going to have one way of doing this,

Mike Graen:

it's going to be the the UPC for these kind of product

Mike Graen:

categories. So yeah, Jonathan akin from by Avery Dennison just

Mike Graen:

texted me and says, if you make it optional, it become like the

Mike Graen:

metric system versus the US system. And we'll have these two

Mike Graen:

kind of things that we have to fight back and forth. Well, I

Mike Graen:

hope you enjoyed that part one of our discussion with Elena at

Mike Graen:

Nedap. Join us next time as we get back together to finish up

Mike Graen:

and wrap up our conversation with part two of our discussion

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