In this episode of Path of the Sober Seeker, we dive into the vibrant world of recovery culture — exploring how memes, meetings, and the timeless message of hope all weave together in the digital age.

I sit down with a special guest from OYPAA (Ohio Young People in AA) to unpack the evolving landscape of fellowship, from the group chat to the meeting hall. We explore the double-edged sword of a digital lifestyle — how online spaces can foster community but also fuel distraction, detachment, and even new forms of addiction.

Together, we reflect on how internet addiction and constant digital stimulation can quietly lead to new forms of unmanageability — and why staying anchored to spiritual principles matters more than ever.

We also discuss how AA’s message is expanding beyond alcohol to address a wider range of addictions among younger generations — and why the heart of recovery remains timeless even as the platforms change.

Key Topics Covered:

• The role of online meetings in recovery

• The double-edged sword of the digital lifestyle

• How internet addiction creates new forms of unmanageability

• Staying spiritually grounded in a hyperconnected world

• Balance digital distraction with responsibility

• Spiritual companionship (suhba) in the digital era

• Honoring the original message in a distraction-driven culture

Guest:

Lacey R — Lacey R. is a 40-year-old mom, musician, and server living a life of service and recovery. Active in OYPAA (Ohio Young People in Alcoholics Anonymous) and online recovery communities, she uses humor, honesty, and humility to connect with others walking the path. When she's not helping organize events or supporting newcomers, Lacey loves reading, makeup, and spending time with her family.

Lacey is also the first non-Muslim guest featured on Path of the Sober Seeker, reflecting the shared spiritual truths and fellowship that transcend all backgrounds.

Book Recommendation Disclaimer:

During this episode, Lacey recommends The Prophetess by Chelan Harkin. While the book offers poetic reflections on spirituality, it is written from a New Age perspective and is not based on Islamic teachings. Muslim listeners are encouraged to approach it with discernment, keeping in mind that our compass as seekers remains the Qur'an, the Sunnah, and the clarity of tawhid.

Here's a direct link to The Prophetess: The Return of The Prophet from the Voice of The Divine Feminine by Chelan Harkin on Amazon:

👉 The Prophetess on Amazon

🔗 Connect with Us:

Website: Path of the Sober Seeker

X: James H (@SoberSeeker) / X

Instagram: @path.of.the.sober.seeker

TikTok: Sober Seeker (@the_sober_seeker) | TikTok

YouTube: Path of the Sober Seeker - YouTube

And May law Bless all of us. Today's episode is entitled Memes, meetings and the Message, and we are gonna talk about the impact of living [00:01:00] in a digital society on addiction and more importantly, recovery from addiction. Um, when AA was first founded, it was brought into a very, very analog world, um, and a lot of our founders , early pioneers in sobriety, never had the same tools or never had the same, uh, resources at their disposal as we do today.

I'd like to introduce today's guest, Lacey r um, Lacey, if you wanna go ahead and give us a quick introduction and, uh, tell us a little bit about yourself and then we'll get into it.

Um, it's awesome. It's actually a codependency alcoholic meeting, but you know, everything can be an addiction, so I love it. Yeah. Yeah.

James: Okay. That's great. Yeah, so it's one of those things that we see, um, you know, I'm starting to see a lot more in the rooms lately, is people who are, um, you know, obviously addicted to multiple substances too.

You know, and then it was, um, as my disease progressed, I got into obviously, you know, smokey weed. 'cause the marijuana maintenance is huge. Yeah. You know, I realized like, if I got high first, I wasn't gonna, you know, spend as much at the bar and then, you know, but then I got to the point where it was high all the time, and it lead led to a whole other level of, um, you know, unmanageability.

I'm like, oh, well, alcohol only, and you don't belong here in Nas down the street. Meanwhile, like one of the founders, uh, Dr. Bob used to write his own prescriptions Yeah. For himself.

I mean, an alcoholic is an alcoholic. We, I think it's a loose term. You know, it, it means one thing and one thing only that I have an addiction that I need to not have anymore. Right. You know, I need to get better from this addiction, whatever that means. An alcoholic is kind of just a general term at this point.

I think

James: it's, it's, I I think for a lot of younger people, especially like alcohol, it's like that, you know, they talk about that gateway drug.

James: know, and the gateway substance and alcohol is really the one that was, um, you know, for a lot of us, you know, we're like sneaking sips of dad's beer when he is not looking or like, you know, drinking, you know, sneaking into the liquor cabinet while we're, you know mm-hmm.

Doing shots in the, in the garage and whatnot before school. It's just really, yeah. You know, there's, it, it, it is a progressive disease and it has to start somewhere. Yeah. I agree. I agree. I think that, um, you know, alcohol especially is like, that is that gateway. 'cause you know, it starts it out and then we start to really, you know, get out of ourselves.

And it is like a sense of, you know, it is a form of escapism. And I think in like extreme cases, it can lead to a degree of unmanageability. You know, we've heard of people that get addicted to like, you know, world of Warcraft, for example, and they'll sit there and play and that's literally all they do.

And that could be, you know, it could be drugs, it could be alcohol, it could be anything that I allow to get between me and my higher, my higher power. You know, my case is Al, but in the, in the rooms I understand that everyone has their own, you know, their own relationship. And that's one of the things we all, um, cultivate our own relationship [00:05:30] with that higher power.

Okay. So Lacey, let me ask you this. Um, I know that you do a lot of work through, uh, you're still involved with the, uh, o opa, am I pronouncing that right?

Lacey: Yes. Yes. Yes.

James: What has been your experience with, uh, OPA as far as like meme culture or, um, you know, really being in a digital age with these younger people?

And then also, I mean, a lot of my support group I got from Wipa, you know, so the meme culture, uh, a lot of it is like rule 62. Okay. So like, don't take [00:06:30] yourself too seriously. Right. Okay. And so a lot of the things that I do, and my friends and I do, um, we actually have like a specific Facebook group just for memes that either poke fun in our addiction or are funny things that, uh, come on in the rooms, things that people say, you know, it kind of lightens it up a little bit and it allows us to laugh at ourselves, at, you know, things that, [00:07:00] um, may have been harder to deal with, but.

You know, it helps bring us together in a way, I guess, right?

James: Yeah. Well I think that's important, especially if you get like that, uh, that digital buffer, you know, um, I, I feel it would be beneficial to a lot of newcomers, for example, who come in and they might not, uh, it might be too shy to share in a meeting.

'cause it, it's an unfamiliar environment, you know, for a lot of people. Um, you know, so if we're used to our, our, um, you know, partying lifestyle or the later stage of this disease, just like, I mean, I isolated my last few months of using was just like total isolation. So, no, I mean, literally I would leave the house to go see my, you know, go see my dealer and then get back home again.

Lacey: Oh yeah. Yeah.

James: So I think that it's, you know, it's good to be, you know, have these, you know, these Facebook groups and whatnot available, uh, you know, for younger people to step in and maybe, you know, ask questions or they could do it through, you know, the privacy of a DM or, um, you know, text messaging instead of having a, you know, conversation.

Mm-hmm. Um, and I think it's important to lay the foundation of that self-honesty. And in order to do that, you have to be comfortable talking to people. Um, 'cause it's a we program, it's not a me program.

I guess the kids don't really use Facebook these days. What? From what I was told, it's like an old people app quote. Okay. Boomer, right? Yeah. Right. They're like, okay, because you know, I am older. I do come from a generation, you know, where I did experience life without digital content Right. For a really long time until I was almost in my twenties, you know?

Oh, that's amazing.

Lacey: So, yeah, I actually get goosebumps just talking about that because it's happened more than once and it's just like,

James: oh, martial law, that's beautiful. What? Yeah.

I think I'm just gonna let me call Lacey or let me reach out to Lacey. 'cause I know she's doing this. And that's been really awesome. Oh,

James: that is amazing. Yeah. How, how amazing. It's like, 'cause I know that we, you know, we've talked a little bit about your past a little bit. I know that you've been in a, uh, uh, working in environments like bartending and whatnot.

Mm-hmm. You don't talk to anyone who's ever, you know, done a shot with or anything. And it's, I I, I feel like it's, at one hand you do have to lay that old lifestyle to rest, but at the same time it's, you know, a law brings people into our lives for a reason, you know, and to have, you know, share so much of your [00:11:00] life, uh, just, you know, with someone.

And it's, I, I get that we can, you know, there's some really bad times and well, there's that idea in recovery that, oh, my best day sober is better than my worst day or worst day sober is better than my best day drinking. Which is like, I, you know, I don't feel that's like honoring our past a lot. 'cause I had some great days, you know, back then.

Did that. And you never know what the seeds that you're planting. You know, I mean, you've never, you know, we're, uh, it might even be, you know, inspiring in a way. Yeah. That someone looks at the way you used to be. They're like, oh, well, Lacey used to do this. If she can do it, I can do it. Let me give her a call.

You know what I mean? Right. I was home and I always had a bottle of liquor in the freezer, like I was ready to go. Right. You know, but I go back to that. So that's actually another thing that I didn't really think of is I'll go back to my TikTok sometimes and just watch who I was. [00:12:30] Right. And the kind of person that I was and what I, even just what I looked like.

Is so bizarre.

Right?

Lacey: Right. So then I, then once I started getting sober, I, I started putting that on my TikTok. And TikTok is a huge platform, right? Like huge. And so then I started getting messages, um, not only from people in my life, but from other people I don't even know from different places and things like that.

James: So do you find that this TikTok culture, 'cause I know I don't, um, you deal with a lot of younger people. Do you find people who are trying to do tiktoks or trying to like, uh, incorporate their social media presence into their recovery or their recovery into their social media presence?

right?

Lacey: Like you look up one thing about recovery, you're gonna get everybody in recovery on your algorithm for like the next however long, right? Um, I don't see much of it from people that I know in particular, but I do find, um, I do find a lot of actually older people that are doing it.

James: millennials. Yeah. More or less, I guess that's what

Lacey: they would be called. Yeah. I find those are the people that I'm finding. On TikTok and more on, on the internet, you know, talking about their recovery and things like that.

That's what I find more than younger people.

James: That's like the second wave of it. Like with aa you find it, it seems to be like three groups. You have like the younger, you know, mid, mid twenties clique, so to speak. Mm-hmm. Like the younger people who are court ordered and, you know, various, um, things. And I, I could relate to it.

Lacey: Yeah. Um,

James: so it was like, and I found that there were a lot of other people in their, you know, late twenties who were really, really in there.

You know, we all see the curmudgeon old guys who are sitting, sitting there with a coffee and flowering at everyone and Oh yeah. Ones sit in the back. Uh, no meeting would be, would be great without that, you know, it's, they're carrying it on for the rest of us. Very true. Okay. Well one of the thing, you know, one of the prevailing themes that we have in recovery is humility.

Like that version of Lacey could, you're one drink away. Oh yeah. You know, any of us are one drink away from that. Um. Uh, where people are trying to, uh, push a social media presence through recovery though, do you, uh, think that might cross the line to vanity?

Lacey: Oh,

James: yeah, definitely. At,

James: Interesting.

Lacey: And I'm, I say that because bringing up the vanity or the validation. Right,

right.

And so I was chasing anything and everything I could to try to fill that dopamine cup. Right. So there is a fine line. You look at some of the posts that some of these people in early recovery are putting up and they are very much vanity attention seeking. Um, you know, they haven't found that level of [00:17:00] humility yet.

Which I get it though, because it totally makes sense to me. 'cause I literally did the same thing.

James: It's, I feel like it could be part of the process though. I mean, 'cause it is like, when I was new I needed a lot of reassurance that I was doing the right thing. Yes. You know, and it's really, uh, you know, it's important to, you know, to be able to do that, you know, to be able to find that valid, uh, that, that sense of validation I guess.

Not that, that's what, not, not that that's what I was like seeking, but at the same time trying to, you know, you need, you need that, especially with, um, you revert back to that level of, um, immaturity. You know, we talk about how you, you know, when you get sober, you mentally and emotionally revert back to whatever age you were when you started using.

Lacey: Oh yeah, I know exactly who that is that said that to you. Yeah. So I think I know who your sponsor is just by you saying that. Right. You know? No, and that's true. And that's another thing too, is like the, there is that fine line, right? And, and I, the people that, [00:18:30] like for me example, I spent a lot of time looking for attention.

Look at me, look at me, you know, um, look what I'm doing, kind of thing. But then I worked my program, right?

Right.

And then the kind of things that you would see from me. On social media changed.

James: That's amazing.

Lacey: Yeah. Yeah.

James: I I love that you bring that up. So in, in Islam we have the, uh, concept of ilo, which is sincerity. Mm-hmm. And, um, when you do get sincere with yourself, and there's a, we have another, um, concept called a do aab, which is basically, um, conduct, uh, spiritual etiquette, the way that you conduct yourself.

Mm-hmm.

James: And I, um, it's because I wasn't working that internal program. I was all about the outside. Like, I was literally Mr. Aa, like Lacey, I was the secretary of my home group.

But when I was on my own, I wasn't doing the same. You know, I wasn't doing the same thing. I had a, um, I mean, I remember to, I went to one meeting in the morning, um, it was, this was years ago. It was saying like, Euclid and I went home and literally brewed my own ayahuasca, like immediately after a meeting.

And I'm like, this is, I mean, that's where my mentality was, right. You know, it wasn't like, I'm not, I, I'm, you know, way beyond just going to the bar to sneak shots. Now I'm going into, you know, brewing your own ayahuasca for nine hours just to try to get a, uh oh no, it's gonna get me closer to God. Let's try this out.

Mm-hmm.

James: You know? Mm-hmm. Um, and we talk about an aa that idea of like, you know, you're comparing your outsides, uh, I'm sorry, comparing your insides to everyone else's outsides, you know, or your backstage footage to everyone else's highlight reel.

Lacey: Oh, yeah. That's a good one. That's a good one that you can compare yourself out of anything. Right. You know, comparing yourself out of the rooms is it's, you know, one of the sl, one of the sayings, and that's so true.

I was being serviced to others, but I was not doing anything I was supposed to be doing. But it looked really good on the outside, right? And, and then on social media, you just stay. I just stay with that. So that definitely, I think that can create, if we're not careful, really, that can totally create a [00:22:00] disconnect spiritually, because if you're just worried about what everyone else is seeing and not what you're doing on the inside, like you said.

That can go downhill very, very fast. Well,

James: very fast. It's one of those things like intention really, you know, has it, um, you know, in, in Islam we talk about how, uh, Allah basically judges us by our intentions. Mm-hmm. And I feel like if you're making a post with the intention of getting, uh, you know, getting attention from that, you know, Allah's gonna see that he sees what's in our hearts.

I think it's really important not to allow that to go to your head, not to allow that to feed your ego. Uh, because it would really, really be easy for it to, you know, run away with it.

Lacey: Oh yeah.

Lacey: Hmm. So I think. Well, like I had said earlier, you know, it allows us to reach more people in the area by being on the internet, you know, and being able to do event invites and, and shouting things out and posting our, you know, flyers and things like that. And it's able to reach a wider audience. And then also it has allowed me to be on other committees that are [00:23:30] outside of my area.

I'm, I have a chair position on, you know, on a different committee that's farther away, but I'm able to do that because they allowed Zoom meetings and I can just come in and be on any meeting I wanna be on, and I can be a member of that service committee. You know? So I think it, it takes away the excuse of not being able to get anywhere.

You know, if you like it, cool. If you feel comfortable, come to a meeting in person. And I did find that that easing people in that way made it a lot more comfortable for them to be there in person because they feel like they already know us. They know [00:24:30] what the deal is, they know what's gonna happen. Um, I think that that has helped to soften the blow of that, you know, anxiety.

Of doing it in person.

Right.

Lacey: Yeah. So I think that that's been like super, super helpful and ever, I mean, I, I do better socially when I don't have to walk into a room.

James: Right.

Lacey: You

James: know? Well, I mean, you get to, I, I go ever since I hit about 40 years old, I don't like wearing real pants if I don't have to. Look, I have indoor clothes and I have outdoor clothes.

Lacey: put on my nice yoga pants. Right, right, right,

James: right. I put on my, put on my pajama pants and I'm not, I'm not going anywhere. Right. It's, um, you know, so I think that's one of the advantages of the digital age. Mm-hmm. Because it's like, otherwise you gotta go do things and up and it's, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, no, that's like bedtime. That's, I'm not, I'm not messing with that.

Lacey: Yeah. There are some pretty late ones. I was able to, uh, you can find one anytime of the day on Zoom, anytime of the day. Right. Anywhere in the world.

James: It's amazing.

Right. You know, because [00:26:00] they built these relationships with people halfway across the country. And I mean, I was in a meeting on a couple of weekends ago. I needed to get to a meeting, but I couldn't find one that was going on at the time that I was available. And so I jumped on some random meeting in New Jersey.

I think it was, I don't know. There's always ladies there and they, the one lady was in Scotland for Christ sake. Oh, wow. Like's so cool.

I mean, it's, talk about it, it's uh, you know, for any of our listeners that aren't in recovery, it's one of those things you have to, um, like experience to understand. But aa literally is having friends in low places.

Yeah.

James: I mean it because it's, we are everywhere. We have our own language. We have our own way of

mm-hmm.

That was after, when I came back from my relapse, it was like, I was only sober for like two or three months, and it was just oh's, emotionally devastated. I, I was just not in a good, good place. Um, and I went down and she, uh, she passed away in North Carolina, and I'm like, I gotta find a meeting. I gotta find a meeting.

And I went, you know, on the internet and I found one in, um, Lillington, North Carolina.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Um, I went in and I couldn't tell you anyone's name at that meeting. I don't know anyone. I, I went in, I got a little bit late they were doing, but what I loved about it was the level of continuity that we have. I went in and they were reading the preamble. And the preamble is the same no matter what meeting you go to, like in Japan, that might be reading it in Japanese, but it's, you know, the same thing.

It's

the same. Yeah.

Who I had never seen, I don't remember their names. I may never, you know, may never see them again. Were able to, uh, you know, help me and that's the beauty of this fellowship. Yeah. And to be able to. Connect like that just overseas, um, just, you know, via Zoom or via anything. I guess it doesn't matter if the digital buffer is there, the truth [00:28:30] and that, um, you know, level of comradery and fellowship is gonna be the same.

Alright. Lisa, I wanna ask you, you mentioned, um, finding meetings online and whatnot. Uh, what, where would some of our listeners find those? Like if someone's interested in 24 hours of aa?

Lacey: Yeah, so because online is just, you know, such a great thing, you can go on and find a meeting anywhere. Uh, for our area, it's ale.org.

James: Okay. Excellent. I have a, um, I, I do have a link to the AA website. Mm-hmm. On, on the, on the show website, which is, um, sober seeker path.com. And we'll go ahead and put that in the show notes for anyone who's interested.

Okay. So let's, uh, let's get back to humility a minute. Okay. Have you ever, um, and I gotta ask you this, um, having such a strong online presence, have you ever had like your ego checked by someone online?

Lacey: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I definitely

James: have. Lay it out for us. We got, we gotta hear, we gotta hear about this.

Lacey: So as I was kind of saying before about my early recovery, you know, and the whole vanity thing, I got humbled real quick. I was being very, um, vain, I would say, and probably less appropriate than I should have been. And I have someone in the program. Who just basically called me right out and said, what kind of person are do you wanna [00:30:00] be at this point?

James: W was it a resentment at the time?

Lacey: Honestly, yeah. I mean, of course it was. I was like, who are you to tell me what I can post on my Facebook? Right. I love it, you know, but it's like. You know, he was right. He was right. How do I wanna present myself at this point? I'm not that girl anymore. I'm not that party girl.

James: you know? Right. I won't. Well, no, I mean, it's, that's sort of those, you know, core memories Yeah.

You don't work those steps yet.

Right.

Lacey: Because of how I was just this, this face that I had on online and in person. Right. You know? Well,

James: I mean, another thing is they might not want to. Yeah. I mean, you have to give space for that too. Like, especially if we're, you know, a new person and we're looking for sponsorship, we're encouraged to find someone who has something that we want.

Mm-hmm. And it's, you know, if you're acting like, uh, you know, arrogant jackass mm-hmm. For lack of a better term, at meetings all the time, it's not really setting an example.

Lacey: Ab Absolutely.

As a result of working the steps. And that's why it's such, that's why it's so important, like the 12 steps of a, it's literally spiritual alchemy. Yeah. Like, you take your, um, you, you know, you, you come in and you're just like, as low as you've been left rock bottom. Mm-hmm. And it's just as a result of working it, we're able to remove all those veils that we have in our heart between us and our higher power.

And at the end result, I mean, you ever notice that alcohol is only mentioned in step one?

Lacey: Yeah.

James: And by the time we get to step 12, spiritual awakening, and that's the whole point of the steps, it's not to quit alcohol. It's too have a literal spiritual awakening.

Yeah.

James: And it's, you know, it's absolutely beautiful.

Lacey: Ooh, that's a good one. So for me it was, I had, uh, I did have a profound moment of an awakening. Okay. And that allowed me to then have my mind be open a little bit more. And so then I would start to see things that other people would post.

But then, then my mind was different, right? So I come across things, these spiritual memes even, or just things that people [00:34:30] post, you know, quotes and such. And they were hitting me different. I was reading them and I was having a different feeling about them, and they were. You know exactly what I needed to hear.

I feel like at the time, you know, um, and that still happens now. I'm on now I have so many Facebook pages that are just like spirituality and like different dimensions and like all the weird stuff. 'cause you right, you know me well enough to know that I am of the educational variety and I will read all of it, right?

And then I can share, again, share that with, with my friends, you know? And, uh, yeah. So I think that that's probably, I, I was, I had to be relatively. Awakened before any of it meant anything

Rises, you know, literally our vibration rises. Yeah. And, um, you know, we always say the room's water always seeks its own level. Mm-hmm. And when we come in, we're way, way down here. But as you know, you work steps and your, you know, wa water level gets up a little bit. You're gonna start to, you know, pay attention to a little bit more, a little bit more content, maybe a little bit more wholesome messages.

Um, but if I find something that's a, you know, deeper, you know, post or someone who's ta talking about some very profound, you know, spiritual truths, um, I'll stop and look at it. I'm like, okay, this is, you know, this is really, this is cool. Let's, let's get into this. Yeah. Um, whereas, you know. 10, 15 years ago, I'd be, it would be the exact opposite.

Yeah.

James: Um, and that says a lot about the evolution that is, you know, can take place in AA as long as you're work, you know, working a program and being honest with ourselves, which is, you know, that's, it's important.

The idea of like social media addiction. Mm. Um, 'cause it is a big one, and I'm guilty of this too, where I have like a laundry list of, you know, chores I need to do, including laundry, you know, whole list of my, my to-do list of things. All the way to do. And I, um, you know, and I'll be sitting there doom scrolling and I'm scrolling on Twitter, I switch over to Tik TikTok.

And every time you scroll it's like the possibility of getting another one. And I recognize it as a, you know, I don't wanna say a euphoric recall, but it is, it's a very. Uh, familiar feeling, so to speak, you know, when you're in it. Mm-hmm. Then I'm like, oh shoot, I gotta take a step back from this. You know, this is, can be dangerous.

Lacey: You know, I'm actually really bad at it. I don't sleep much.

Right.

Lacey: If I'm being honest, you know, I used to read books to go to sleep, and now I scroll on TikTok until I can't, oh, I can't keep my eyes open anymore. And that tells me.

What does that tell me right now? Uh,

James: probably that you should put your phone down about a half an hour before you go to bed. I should probably put my

Lacey: phone down right?

Lacey: that.

I'm super excited 'cause like that was a really cool video and we watch more, right? I, yeah, I started,

James: um, fairly reading in the last few months. I started just turning my phones off. Mm-hmm. And I, you know, turn my tablet off. I turn it all off before I go to sleep and I got my, you know, books next to the bed and I try to read, you know, about 20 minutes or so.

'cause it does slow my brain down enough to be able to get into sleep mode.

Great. I'm always gonna seek the dopamine no matter how spiritually fit I am, I still wanna feel good, and that stuff makes me feel good. So that's why I do it as much. But I might have a slight social media addiction. I think we just discovered

James: this. Okay. Well, I don't know, something to talk about with your sponsor.

I don't give that sentence a lot of credence like it could understand with like, drugs and alcohol. But I mean, if you really wanna split hairs about it, how many people do we know in AA who smoke cigarettes? Mm-hmm. You know, and then take away their cigarettes for half a day and tell me that's not gonna affect your mood.

Yeah. I need, I need coffee in the morning. Um, I drink it, you know, throughout the day, probably way more than I should. Um, it's, I, I, I guess the thing is, is it's not, it doesn't lead to that same sense of unmanageability.

Right.

Lacey: Yeah. At some point. Right. I think, um, for me, the whole. Mood altering, mind altering thing. I could see there is, I mean there is definitely argument for that, you know, the cigarettes and caffeine. I mean, caffeine's a big one, right? A big one. 'cause I'm telling you, if you go to a a, a Wipo conference, we're there for three days in a hotel and, uh, you better believe that the energy drinks are flowing.

Right. I can still remain present and still, you know, be addicted to hitting my vape every freaking 10 minutes. Right.

James: Whatever,

James: right.

Lacey: At that, you know,

James: well, what do you think about things that are like mentally unhealthy? Like we talk about anything that could take you out of yourself. Mm-hmm. Like if you really wanna get down to it, that could be like watching tv. Yeah. You know, how many times have you sat down and binge watched something on Netflix?

Oh

yeah.

Yes. You know, et cetera. Yes. That can easily fall by the wayside if we let these other things take priority over what we need to do. And that's why it requires like a high degree of self-discipline. Mm-hmm. Um, it's, you know, I feel like with alcohol and, you know, other, other substances, it's a lot more, um, I.

Mm-hmm. And then we're going Okay. Um, at the same time, I've never heard anyone say, oh, I'm, I'm one scroll away. I'm one video away. Wow. From Unmanageability.

This man will not leave his room. He won't, he'll take an entire weekend and not leave his room and just watch Netflix. And it's kind of like rotting in your bed. Like what's the difference between that and, and isolating yourself and using. You know, not,

James: not a whole lot of, other than like, it's probably, you know

Lacey: Right.

James: Other than, you know, well, if, you know, if I was drinking heavily, I would've to leave to, you know, leave to, you know, call nature essentially Do Yeah.

James: Well, it's, uh, I got, you know, they're, they're before the grace of God go, I, you know.

Mm-hmm. 'cause that could be any of us. But at the same time, like, I look at people with, um, you know, especially in the rooms and it's, it's hard sometimes to sit back and wa watch them go, you know? Mm-hmm. 'cause I've been, uh, you know, I've been in and out several times and I know where I am mentally. Mm-hmm.

I, in this old timer meetings years ago, he, he, you know, talk about a meeting resentment. I was in there just in, I, you know, you know me, I'll get into my rants. I was in there, I go on this whole rant about all this stuff, and he's like, James, what does any of that have to do with your decision to stay sober?

Mm-hmm. And I'm like, F you

Chris. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. It, it, it adds up. It adds up incredibly. And we have a, um, you, you know, but at, at the end of the day, none of that has anything to do with my decision to stay sober today. Yeah.

None

Right. Any day. And that's really what we have to, we have to bring it back to that, that fundamental, um, you know, the baseline that we have to carry ourselves at

mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. In daily life. '

James: cause it's really, really easy to run away with it. And I run into this on social media a lot. Like I'll be on, um, you know, Twitter and I'll look at stuff that will literally make my blood boil.

Lacey: I'm angry.

Right. I'm gonna find you, you know, we go ready to load,

James: load up the buzzard gun and go take of business, you know, but I'm like, you, you know, it's, but opening ourself up to something like that is, um, you know, I feel a lot of ways dangerous.

Yeah. You know, and,

You know, looking at more wholesome content mm-hmm. You're involved in like more spiritually, you know, you know, spiritually centered Facebook pages and Instagram pages and whatever else you're, you're dealing with. Um, which I think is important. Yeah. But the way my alcoholic mind works is all it takes is one, one little crack.

Mm-hmm.

And

Oh, me too. Still working at you

Lacey: kidding. Yeah, me too. Even just self-control in general. I mean, I, and I had no control over, over myself. I, as much as I thought I did, but self-control, self-discipline. Absolutely. You know, uh, binge scrolling, um, that's, that's something I'm gonna put into my brain because I, you know, I actually am coming out of having a little bit of a rough month.

Right.

Lacey: I really don't watch TV that much. I have like a couple of specific shows that I wait for and I watch. But you know what I did while I was isolating was scrolling on my phone. In your phone. Okay. I was on my phone the entire

James: time.

Let me ask you this, and I'm not, um, I mean, we had talked before that you've been, you know, limiting screen time with your daughter.

Lacey: Mm-hmm.

James: Um, have you ever thought about putting those same boundaries on yourself?

Right. You know, it's my responsibility as a parent to make sure that she is still being active and that she's not rotting her brain, per se. Right. Okay. And my son too is six. You know, they're, they don't know anything else. They, they, this is. Life for them. They, you know, were born into it [00:48:00] and it just continues to develop.

And, you know, I don't, I should, you're right, I should give myself screen time, uh, you know. Bonuses. It, it's,

James: you know, I, I think it's important. 'cause like, I, I, in recovery we always talk about the pause.

Lacey: Yeah.

James: You know, and that, that sacred pause. Mm-hmm. And just like, stop where, and we take that quick inventory, you know, where am I at?

Mm-hmm. Um, if I'm not looking at anything wholesome, I really need to take a step back and say, okay, we're gonna put this down. Let's go, you know, we're gonna go do our, uh, you gotta go do something else. Walk away, physically walk away from the screen. Mm-hmm. And go do something else. And just try to, um, foster a different sphere of energy in the moment.

Lacey: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna use that. I'm gonna do that.

James: I dare you.

You know? Right. Well,

James: I mean, also, what's your intention? Yeah. What are my intentions? That's thing, what is your intention?

Lacey: Mm-hmm. What am I looking

Um, especially online. Like, it's just really, really, everything is just competing for our attention all the time.

Mm-hmm. So

James: it, we, we have a. You know, we almost have a responsibility to ourselves, especially in, you know, in recovery. And especially if we're past step three and we're really living, you know, Allah's will in our lives or God's will in our lives.

Is scrolling like this, is this really what my higher power wants me to be doing right now? Right. How am I serving, you know, how am I serving God right

James: Great. Well, I mean, and that's it, and that's that, that moment of clarity. Yeah. Which it's possible to get the same moment of clarity from, you know, doom scrolling as it is from, you know, using or anything else.

I agree. Which is really, you know, it's really good. Okay. Miss Lacey, we're uh, we're coming into our closing segment. Um, do you have any final thoughts or anything you wanna share with us today?

Lacey: Um, I think, yeah, so, you know, when it comes to, to online and recovery and, you know, in person and all of that, I think that.

However, I do feel it's important to make that connection with people, um, you know, in person. Um, I think that it was very easily easy for me to find myself feeling alone when I wasn't having that, you know, in-person [00:51:00] connection, face-to-face conversation. Um, and that went, that could go south very quickly.

Um, you know, so I think while it's a positive thing to be able to find things that you need for your recovery online, I think it's also equally, if not more important to find where you belong in a tribe and your support system and be able to surround yourself. In person with people that are going to care for you and love you until you can love yourself.

James: Absolutely.

Lacey: Yeah.

James: I, um, I. I think, I think intention is really where, what it comes down to with this. Mm-hmm. It's how are you intending to use it and are we using it as a tool for sincerity or are we using it for, as a tool to feed our vanity.

Lacey: Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Do pre-meeting coffee BS with your friends in the parking lot afterwards. Yeah. It's really, you know, and that's one of the things that with the fellowship, there's so much that encompasses a meeting besides that, you know, hour of time that we're, you know, sitting there listening to a lead. There's the whole lead up to it.

Lacey: Yeah, absolutely. You know, and if you're hiding behind social media and stuff, you know, it's, it's not easy to you. What about that fear that you're having, right? If you allow that fear to just keep you behind a screen and not in person, then you're never gonna grow

James: that. Absolutely.

Lacey: You know?

James: Okay. Well, we have a, uh, closing tradition on path to the sober seeker.

Lacey: Hmm. Okay, so, uh, there is, oh my gosh, I can't remember.

Okay. The prophet, are you, are you familiar with the book, the prophet.

James: I'm very familiar with. The prophet may piece me upon him. Are we talking about the same prophet though? Uh,

James: Okay.

Lacey: Okay.

Because I'm a woman. And I just didn't connect with it the way that I should have. Okay. So I discovered the profit test and I was like, okay, this is amazing. You know? So then I read my books over and over again. Right. So I finished with that one and I go back to the profit, and now I'm able to gain what I think I needed to gain out of it.

Oh, so it's like,

Lacey: Yeah.

James: Kind of polishes your lens a little bit to look into. It did. It really did.

Lacey: Interesting. I know. And I can't, I wish I could even remember wrote, don't even who wrote know. We'll look

James: it up. We're gonna drop it up. For anyone listening, we're gonna drop it in the show notes. Okay, perfect.

If you're interested in, you know, looking into it, Amazon links, all, all those things. Yeah, it's beautiful. Okay, everyone, I like to think anyone who's, you know, listening, um, if you stuck with us this far, you know, thanks for sticking around. I'd like to remind any of you, um, if you need help, please just reach out.

Thank you everyone. Bye-bye.