Serena is joined by a former manager Lori Gustavus, to discuss the story that led her to create this podcast.

welcome to I'm back today, I'm going to share my personal story

and I'm going to do that with our really special guest, a good friend

of mine, a former manager that was essential for my healing process.

Lori Gustavus.

We are going to discuss my personal hinges.

my Ealing process in coming back to work and why I'm doing this podcast, so

for me personally, it's really, really important and it's really meaningful.

Mostly because I wish I had this podcast when I had my injuries

a few years ago, because I was feeling really alone in dealing with

something that was really difficult.

From a physical point of view emotionally, and I was really

struggling in going back to work.

And I had no one to talk with.

I was not able to find any support.

I was really lost and.

Then as I started to talk with other people that were experiencing something

similar and different, and I discovered that we shared similar struggles,

challenges, stories, but the work environment was not ready to create.

I say space for everyone to talk or discuss this kind of challenges.

And so for me, it's really important to have this podcast and to have

different conversation with different people on our heart is to come back to

work after a life changing experience.

Because if I can be selfish here, I needed to hear this, these conversations.

I'm still in the evening process for myself.

So so I'm doing this podcast for selfish reason, but also because I think that if

this podcast can reach someone that is.

Dealing with something difficult or a life changing experience.

And I don't want anyone to feel alone, not supported and without any power,

because I was feeling really powerless when I came back to work after my injury.

And it took me several years to realize that I was not powerless,

but I was not able to talk about that with anyone for several years, years.

And I was ashamed also about my story.

How about my experience.

I started to think maybe I'm a problem for work.

Maybe I don't need to tell my story to anyone because they are going to

judge me of course, in a negative way

only now again, after seven years.

So it's.

W quite a long, long time, I'm realizing that we need to have these

conversations and we need to being able to share our struggles, even in

the work environment or at the same time, maybe we can decide not to share.

So we have also the right of silence.

And this is also important for me because in a strange way, when I came

back to work after the injury and my first surgery, everyone was asking me.

About my, my surgery, my have issues, but I was not ready to share.

So I think we can also.

And defend our right of silence or our right to decide if we want to share or

and other things that is really important for me is that I have the

impression that companies are not really.

To welcome back people that are struggling with something that personal level.

It's easy for companies maybe to close their eyes and

think it's not our business,

But at the same time, And again, I'm speaking from my personal experience,

you can feel if the company is welcoming you back, or if the company is not caring

about you, you can really feel that.

And the healing process.

Your personal healing process could really change based on that.

So I hope also with my podcast, too, being able to sparkle this kind of conversation

and also inside the companies to find new ways to really welcome back people For

example, I'm thinking at COVID right now.

Oh, are we dealing with that right now?

And the answer is, I don't know.

And I want to know, and this is why I'm doing my podcast.

they go, potty guys is a great way also to talk to a lot of people that are.

You know, maybe developing some great practices to share

for different circumstances.

Wow.

So lots of, lots of great things.

I have a ton of questions that I've written down.

Just everything you were saying, lots to dig into.

Before we get into some of that, maybe just for a moment, we can.

Hit the hit the rewind button.

And maybe tell us about who is this Serina,

I was born with a congenital heart disease.

So I was having an open heart surgery when I was one years old.

I spent a lot of the.

And the does when I was a child.

So I wasn't really an epi child and so I was Really comfortable in creating my

future in a way where I can really create a as small but positive impact on society.

This is also why I started to work in human resources because I loved that.

To support people from the small, smallest things to something

that is could be really a big.

And I really loved my job.

I was really passionate again.

I was really happy to contribute.

I loved my colleagues.

I love my company and I was really happy also to grow inside my company.

And I had several promotion.

I had an international role in this big multinational.

So everything seemed going well for me

and this was, this was in Italy, right?

As you can say, from my accent.

And again, I was really happy with my work.

I was recognized as I potential international level.

And of course I know that because I was working in human resources.

So I had the

Yeah, the

on that.

Access to the secrets.

Yes.

But I was carrying.

Too much about my work.

And I'm saying this because when I had my injury at work, I was completely

exhausted because I was traveling like a crazy person for a six month.

I was doing long hours of work.

I was working during the weekend.

I was working on several big projects for my company.

So I was really exhausted and, and this is the reason why I had, I

think, this injury because I was so tired that I had this injury at work.

And what is funny is that when I went to the year, I said to the doctor,

Lisa and I have to go out soon because tomorrow I have a really important

meeting and I have to prepare myself and the doctor started to laugh at me.

And this doctor said to me, listen, it will take one year for you to recover.

Yeah.

And I was shocked and I couldn't believe that because one year it seems,

it seemed like a crazy amount of time.

And you were thinking tomorrow.

you know, And say, so you get the message.

No, no, we're not talking about hours.

We're talking about months, years too.

And I had to come back to work because I had things to do so

even if I was really in pain and I was in the hospital, I was only

thinking about going back to work.

Now that it's been seven years.

Do you, have you reflected on?

Sure.

You have.

Why do you think that you're, that you were thinking only

about going back to work.

Is that because you're.

Because maybe you were so passionate about it, maybe you, that was where

you got your value recognition.

So what, you know, what, what did you learn about that?

That kind of, that, that moment when you're thinking, well, I

need to prepare for tomorrow and the doctor's like, no, no, no.

This is going to take a little bit of time.

How did that hit you as a person?

It was really, really hard because my.

Identity was built around my work and my professional identity,

Your achievements at work.

my achievements, my self worth, my confidence, my value everything

was built around my work and the possibility for me to contribute

did this was really important.

So when I had my first surgery and I wake up from anesthesia, I remember

thinking, oh, I need to prepare a presentation because they need.

This is your first thought as you're coming out of surgery.

and now I can see that I was crazy, but then I really

had this idea that they need me.

And and then I had a lot of issue with my health It was really a

terrible moment for me personally.

And my identity shifted from person that was able to contribute

to society to as sick person.

That was not terrible to function even for this modern things

That depended, That depended, on society, essentially,

depending on other people.

yes.

Yes.

And, and I was so impressed.

That I was not even able to function at a personal level, so

I was not able to talk anymore.

I was not able to deal with the pain.

It took me a lot of time to be able to do that.

So it was really a nightmare for me and I went In a identity crisis.

That was really difficult for me to handle, but I have to

say that I had in mind the perspective of coming back to work.

So I was thinking in my head, oh, but when I will be back

to work, it will be different.

So at this time, you know, you're talking to us about, you know, about the

professional side of your life and, you know, We hear a lot about life balance.

So can you talk a little bit about, you know, what your situation was

maybe there a lack of balance and, and your, your life was focused on work.

Did you have a personal balance?

I think there's, there's this myth, you know, like when you achieve

the perfect life balance, this is not going to be an issue, you know?

Right.

Oh, you read about, oh, but if work-life balance, I think it's such an easy

thing to get into we're in our, when we spend most of our waking hours.

in a professional setting when you talked about, you know, the

self worth And confidence and your contribution to society and

making impact helping other peoples was, was in the professional setting.

Do you want to, can you talk to us a little bit about

the seven years ago?

what did that balance look like?

You said you were, that what you're describing.

is pretty much, you know, near exhaustion or burnouts, and

which is an alarm alarm bell.

What are.

Yeah, but I was not recognizing that.

It took me my injury to recognize that because back then I soaked

that if I was successful at work, I could be happy in my personal life.

So the notion of work-life balance was really difficult

for me my life is my work.

So what is the balance?

And I really loved my work.

So for me, let's say it was not an issue to work on the Sundays.

'cause I, yeah.

Yeah.

I loved it so much and it was not a problem for me.

Travel like a crazy person all around Europe every week.

Because I love to meet my colleagues to support them.

And you know, when you are working in the human resources, everyone needs you.

So it's not something that it's going to stop when you are closing one project.

And now I can say that I really needed that kind of recognition

or I now for me, work-life balance means something really different.

For me right now means that I'm able to put the right boundaries.

Like I'm able to stop working.

I'm able to recognize when I'm tired, I'm able to recognize when I'm in pain.

I am able to recognize when I need to spend my energy on my personal

life and not so much on, on work, but it's still difficult for me to.

Um, I allow myself to set those boundaries and to say, I have

other priorities outside of work.

It's still difficult for me.

I have to say.

I think we all see this, you know, I know just minor things, right.

If, if I'm extremely tired and, and then you get distracted, you

know, because you're when you're, you know, you can be, for me, it's

cooking dinner, but I might have in my head is still on something else.

, dropping a lot of things or burning stuff, which I normally wouldn't do.

And I know that's become for me kind of a signal it's you're

doing now, the email can wait.

, What would you like to share with your audience about some

of the, some of the signs.

That you wish you would have recognized?

How can you use that experience to help the listeners and what

should they be on the lookout to notice it in ourselves, right.

It's really, really easy to notice it in other people.

I think I need to share our was for me to come back to work.

Finally.

I was so happy to go back to work and the environment was

not ready to welcome me back.

So I don't know how to say this without getting emotional, but they

changed the way they behave towards me based on the fact that I was sick.

And this was really hard for me.

So they changed my role.

They were really mobbing me.

And this was really hard for me because of course my identity was based on work

and suddenly I was not able to work or I was not useful for my company.

And I did something really wrong for me.

I made a big mistake for my health because I stopped to go

to therapy, to physical therapy.

I pushed back surgeries.

I avoided to go to doc.

Because I didn't want to say to my company, sorry, I have to take

one hour off to go to therapy.

Or I was really afraid to say, I need to do another surgery

so, what you're saying is you really didn't get the lesson right away.

You immediately, you immediately went back into this.

It's almost almost worse.

Like I need to even prove myself even more.

and I, to what, what I'm hearing from you.

And please tell me if this

need

but you, you wanted to erase that that identity, that you didn't feel for

yourself, but they were given you, they were given you the, the sick person

label, someone that couldn't perform.

As before.

And you were, so you overcompensated then,

I can share something

I was feeling really bad.

I went to.

The hospital alone at night, I was in the ER all night dealing

with a lot of Alfie issues, pain.

And then I asked to the doctor If I can, could sign to go outside

to the ear because I had a really important meeting in the morning.

So after spending one night at the hospital, we went to

do this international meeting.

And I was not really able to function because I was tired.

I was in so much pain and the meeting went not really well.

And the reaction from my managers were so difficult to handle because.

They even say said to me, we need to in Italy, we, we say literally

the camera that is like an official documents complaining about you,

but I was not able to say, I was in the hospital all night.

And when I was able to say, say this a few days later, they

said to me, it's not our fault.

You are an adult.

So if you are at work, you need to function like a normal person.

And this was a wake up call for.

First because I realized how stupid I was secondary because I

realized that I was really alone.

And and then I realized that they didn't care about me at all, so I could

not win, or I could not convince them that I was the same, maybe because

I would, I was not the same person.

Because I'll can I think that I was the same person after our thrombotic

event, after dealing with multiple surgeries, with chronic pain,

neurological pain some kind of depression.

I was not the same person.

But I pretended to be the same happy, smiley a person that is

really happy epi to do everything.

So again, it's about the boundaries, you know, it's

Yeah.

wow

and so you, I know you really, you mentioned earlier, cause you were talking

about the going back and how difficult that was for you in terms of kind of

the, the label that was given to you and how you were being treated, which,

and also it was for you, you know, you wanted that same identity as, before

they wanted that same Serena as before.

And so everyone was on the wrong.

. So you mentioned earlier, you know, one of

the,

Intention of the podcast is how companies can welcome people openly

with more understanding, how would you, if you could have write that

wrote this script about, what, what does that look like for you now?

And maybe that can serve as, as a tool or some guidance for, for maybe

other people in HR, listening to it or other people that are going

he's a great question.

For me,

Having the possibility to have a real conversation on what are my

needs, what are the company needs?

How can we match these two different needs?

Can we, as a company supporting you in coming back to work from something

that is really stupid, like the.

Laptop, the kind of desk, the kind of chairs.

So from something that is really small and practical to, okay, you

have a really big project maybe.

How can we support you to do this project in the best way, if you have health

issues, but having a conversation about that, not choosing for on my behalf

without involving me in the conversation.

And if I can be critic towards myself, I didn't have the courage.

To husk for these conversations back then.

So I was not able to ask for anything to explain myself.

And of course, if your struggle is not visible, it's so hard also

for other people to understand that you are living a nightmare.

If they don't see it, if you're , going to work every day.

Maybe this is the best advice that I can give you.

And also I have to say that I was really lucky because I add the

really a great mentor back then.

And for example, when I was at the hospital, he sent me some flowers and he

said to me the company can wait for you.

And it's something that I can understand.

Now I couldn't understand back then.

That the company can wait for your full recovery and can wait for you.

Of course it was difficult for me because

I really want to go go back to work and be the same person

yeah, it was part of your healing, you know, it was part of your feeling.

Definitely.

So the two things that I grabbed from that is one.

You know, have the conversation are probably multiple conversations.

So the, even the, probably before the, before the person comes back, you know,

speak to someone before they're coming back, or if you're the person going

back, ask for that conversation, you know, what does that reentry look like?

I'm, I'm coming back.

I'm, you know, count on me, you know?

So to all the HR talent people listening, divisor conversation

at a company who doesn't offer that., You know, ask for that.

, Serena: it's so.

Difficult to find the right way to deal with these kind of things in both sides.

And this is also why I think we need to have this kind of conversation, open

conversation, to build the best practices and to build together a different

way and a more human way to do this.

With this, because I think everyone has some struggles visible or not visible.

And I'm not sure that we are able to welcome back people,

even with the smaller struggles.

I really want to gather different perspective on this and also it

doesn't need to be always, let's say a negative experience, like an illness.

It could be challenging, even if you are like dealing with going back to

work after a sabbatical or after our maternity or after that is changing

your life in a positive way, let's say.

So a lot of different stories, different perspectives, and really conversation.

Dan we've had an open heart

Really without judgment, but we've understanding because

your way of coping with.

Your experience is your way.

So, and it could be interesting to hear your way to say, okay, maybe

this is not useful for me, but maybe I need to explore something like that.

And please don't copy mine because I was really not good at it.

I did everything wrong.

But there were love, there are the lessons, that maybe, you know,

this is, this is what it's, what brought you to doing this podcast though, , and

you can turn that into a positive.

Yeah, positive lesson for, for others.

And I think that's what you're so, so good at is being open and listening to others.

And, and I'm so excited for you to take people on this journey with you and

thank you for sharing, um, your story with me and everyone listening today.

Is there anything else that you would like people to know about.

I really hope that kindness could become the most important

pillar, even in the work environment.

This was really, really emotional for me.

Please share this story with some friends that maybe needs

to hear this conversation.

You can find all the information on the website serenheart.com

you can find also the link in the description and see you next time.