Welcome to Modern Financial Wellness! I’m your host, Jim Grace, and today I was thrilled to sit down with Christine Moriarty, CFP®, a seasoned financial planner, author, and keynote speaker, whose area of expertise is navigating money conversations for couples. With over 30 years in the industry, Christine has helped countless couples and individuals bring more peace and understanding to their financial lives.

This episode is all about one of the most challenging—and rewarding—aspects of financial wellness: how couples can manage money together. Whether you’re newly dating, about to move in, getting married, or decades into your partnership, Christine and I discussed the dynamics that play out when two people try to merge not just their finances, but also their upbringing, values, and money habits.

Christine brings a wealth of experience to this conversation. She’s spent decades coaching couples, teaching workshops, and writing about what it means to create “money peace.” Her perspective is informed not only by her professional background but also by her personal journey—observing healthy financial habits modeled by her parents and learning through her own marriage what works and what doesn’t. She is the author of Creating Your Money Peace and runs the site moneypeace.com.

Key Takeaways

1. Money Talks Need to Start Early (and Often): The best time for couples to begin talking openly about money is before moving in together or making big commitments. Start by sharing your financial backgrounds—how you grew up, your first money memories—before diving into the numbers.
2. Appreciate, Don’t Judge, Your Differences: We all bring different values, habits, and anxieties around money to a relationship, often absorbed from our families. Rather than viewing differences as obstacles, see them as opportunities for deeper understanding.
3. Systems Must Be Fluid: What “worked” for a couple for years can suddenly cause stress when life changes—think retirement, a new baby, or job changes. Regularly revisit your money systems, budgets, and roles so you can adapt together.
4. It’s About Conscious Choices, Not Perfection: The goal isn’t to avoid all disagreements or to create a perfect budget. It’s to make conscious, intentional decisions together, understanding the “why” behind your money priorities.
5. Regular Money Dates Change Everything: Inspired by Victoria Felton Collins’ Couples and Money, Christine encourages “money dates”—structured, time-limited conversations about finances. These create a safe space for ongoing, manageable discussions instead of high-stakes arguments.

Money is never just about numbers—it’s about communication, values, and being willing to learn about yourself and your partner. It takes patience, baby steps, and sometimes help from professionals or good resources. I am grateful to Christine for sharing her hard-won wisdom and practical advice. If you want more on this topic, check out the resources above, and as always, feel free to reach out via modernfinancialwellness.com. And remember—give yourself some grace as you tackle money together!

Thanks for listening. Until next time, stay well!

Welcome, everybody, to Modern Financial Wellness. I'm your host, Jim Grace, and it's great to be with Christine Moriarty today. Our guest, Christine, welcome to the show. I appreciate you taking the time.

Thanks for having me. And thanks for doing Modern Financial Wellness.

Well, it's my pleasure. It's a lot of fun, especially when I can get the chance to chat with people like you. It's. It makes it a great experience. So thanks for joining me. So you've been a financial planner for quite a while, is that correct?

I would say so. If you think three decades is quite a while.

I would, Absolutely, yeah. The 30 years being a financial planner, which is fantastic. Such a depth of experience that I'm looking forward to chatting with you about today. You've done a lot of work around couples and money, so you're a keynote speaker. You have presentations on the topic. You've done some, some workbooks and some programs and some things specifically to help couples over the years.

Yes, it's a subject that is near and dear to my heart as far as I've done some weekend workshops. I've done some ongoing classes for groups. Especially during the pandemic. People had time, they were willing to learn more about money. And then I do some private coaching on a very limited basis, but that helped.

Got it. Got it. I'm curious. You've been in the industry for quite a while. You've invested so much time and so much your expertise in the subject of couples and money, and it's near and dear to your heart as you described. Where did that originate? When you became a financial planner, did you always set out to help couples, or is that something you kind of organically grew into as you started your career?

That is a great question. And I gave it some reflection because I appreciated the heads up. I definitely grew into it. But the first couple that ever modeled it for me was my parents.

Oh, no kidding.

I saw my parents manage a checkbook together. And, you know, once in a while my father would come out and say, I don't know where this check went. And then my mother would tell him, but I never remember fights about it. And she was the one who balanced it. They'd have conversations about it and it was, it was a big deal because they were doing it on the dining room table, but it wasn't a big deal. Like, I never felt like, oh, my God, they're fighting about money. And so they modeled that in a good way. They weren't perfect.

It was a little bit of the 50s housewife in that Family. However, it kind of gave me a basis. And then when I went into business, I had the feeling that couples should come together when they go to a financial planner. And not. Not many financial planners in the 80s and early 90s were taking that approach. So I encouraged it. And the few times early in my career that, you know, a woman told me, oh, my husband's too busy, and he has this medical ailment. He can come to the second or third session with us.

I gave in. Well, and the same flip. A. A man came and said, my wife will come the next time. Just in both situations, after I had done a lot of work, the spouse was like, that's not what I want. I don't want to consider moving. We're not moving because of my medical ailment. I like our house.

So it became apparent I set a really strict boundary that couples have to both come together. And I lost some clients because of that. However, I gained better clients.

Right, right. That's really interesting. So the first example that you had, it wasn't perfect to use your description, but you saw your parents come together and get to the table, to use a phrase. Right. They came together and sat down literally at the table and talked about money and what was going on.

And their focus was the checkbook. And I think here's a really important piece, James. They sat on the same side of the table. What do people do when they sit at a table? They sit across from each other. That's really a combative position. If you're trying to look at numbers, you need to be next to each other.

Yeah, absolutely. That's a great thought. I never really thought of it a.

Lot in this business that goes beyond the numbers, and then you get into the layers of working with couples.

Right, right. That's interesting. So you have that great example from your parents sitting on the same side of the table, and then you start your career and start working with couples. Did you expect to see a similar example? It sounds like you kind of went into it, you know, having this good, healthy example from your folks and then kind of giving in to one spouse or the other and doing the planning work. Did you. Were you surprised? Surprised at the challenges or the issues that couples kind of came to you with that unconsciously or consciously?

Probably unconsciously. I was probably shocked. Like, how could these people be married? And let's put this also in perspective, because I married later in life when I was in my 40s, early 40s. So for 20 years, a lot of people I knew were married and. And had relationships, and I knew some of them pretty well. But people don't talk about money in a social scale. So here people were coming in, and I would be asking them questions, and they'd say, we never talked about that. And I'd go, really? To myself, and you're married.

Like, how did that not come up in conversation? And as that, I learned that. Or here's another one that surprised me that I now understand now that I'm married. Like, I. I'd send them off to do homework or follow up on something, and they come back and say, oh, I forgot to tell my husband when I did that. I'm like, how could you forget? You live together. I mean, I. I didn't say it that blatantly. It happens.

So the reality now I see. I think it made me more patient and understanding of couples. It was my couples who gave me the best examples of what step we needed to do next. From sit at the same side of the table to make how. How they have to figure out their money. For example, what's the maximum we can spend without consulting the other. Those kind of things. I actually have come up with 10 operating principles for couples so that they can see who operates their money.

Because sometimes people think, oh, we each take care of it. And when they go and look, the same person's taking care of the taxes, the insurance, the checkbook, and they're not.

Yeah. Household cfo. Right. Somebody kind of defaults into that role oftentimes.

Right. And. And there's often two people, and I'm generalizing now. One might be the cfo, the other could be the ostrich with the head in the sand. And they are both equally stressed. They wear it differently.

Right.

The unknown is as stressful, even if it's unconscious.

You're touching on a lot of things that I see in my own personal life that I've talked about on the podcast. I'm sure I could share some throughout our conversation. But also in my practice, I have this term that a lot of couples that we start working with are operating separately together. Right. So they're in a couple. They're obviously working on a lot of things together. But when it comes to money, they have a lot of different values, mindsets. Their process is different.

They have different visibility of what their actual financial situation looks like. So from afar, it looks like this is a loving couple that's doing a lot of great things together. But when it comes to the details, they're kind of operating separately. So why is it. Do you have any thoughts on why that is. Why do couples find themselves in a situation where they're just not on the same page and not able to kind of get together on the same side of the table, so to speak?

For three reasons. One, they don't start talking about it at the right time. They don't know where to have that discussion, where that discussion should start around money. And then we, number three is we can't appreciate someone else's differences. And all that gets wrapped up with the fact that we are not taught to manage money. Matter of fact, some people just say, I am not managing money with someone because my parents always fought or my mother was a single mother. I'm taking care of my money.

Right? So they have these different perspectives and experiences and they kind of inherit those values or mindsets from their, from their folks growing up.

Those first examples, I wouldn't say inherit. I'd say absorb.

Absorb.

Because if you absorb something, there's a way to get out from under it. I have inherited freckles. I can't get rid of those.

That's a great distinction. That's a great clarification. Can we unpack a couple of those real quick? So when do you start talking about money? Right? So when, when do couples. When should that conversation start?

When you're a couple. So day one, not day one, because you're not a couple day one, you're, you know, you're dating, you're getting to know each other. But as you move through this in couplehood, long before you move in together or anything, some of these conversations need to be had beyond, oh, I'll pay for dinner, or let's pay for dinner, let's go on this vacation. How do you want to spend it? Because in the very beginning, everything is lovely in a relationship. That's why you're in it. And you need to at least start having acknowledge it's part of your relationship. So what I do when I was, when I work couples through, relate couples groups is say, okay, here's the first date around money, not the first date. What's that conversation go like? That conversation? People usually start, this is the money I make, or this is what I have.

They need to start back. This is how I grew up. This is what my father did around money. This is what my mother or this is where my family of origin was around money. This is what I saw. Not all in one conversation, but it's a start. If they're not looking internally of what happened to them as far as their finances, the rest of it doesn't fall in place. And if people are just then not vested in anything major or long term, they're just having a conversation, what our families were like, it starts a much more deeper intimate relationship, let alone relationship with money.

Yeah, yeah, that's great. And I've heard people talk about the idea that it's easy to get frustrated with our spouse or partner when you can't understand where they're coming from. Right, right. So it's natural, I think, for partners to disagree or have a difference of opinion on a whole host of subjects. And sometimes it like, like, you know, you look at the person across the table, we'll say on the same side of the table, hopefully, and say where this doesn't make any sense. They're kind of acting kind of nuts. Right. But it's not until you explore some of those where you come from.

What did you absorb in your experiences in the past, you start to build a better understanding of where somebody is coming from. Behavior starts to sound and feel a lot less crazy. Right. It's with more context of where they're.

Coming from, which is why you start there.

Right? Yeah.

So it's. Where you start is critical. It's not about the argument. And I think that. So that's number one, where you start. Number two is when you start getting into more of the details should be before you move in together, before you make any financial commitments. Together. Together.

Even if it's, we're not going to live together, we'll get engaged. Well, what's that going to look like? What's a wedding going to look like? I've met people who said, oh, we don't know how much we spent on our wedding. Well, that's pretty telling. Then if you do all that footwork, you can begin to appreciate the differences, which is the third, you know, PowerPoint. And I don't mean PowerPoint screen, just a PowerPoint. If you can appreciate each other's differences, then you can work with it.

Right.

You can't work with something you don't recognize and then you label it as crazy when it's not crazy. It makes total sense given the history where they're at now, what's going on with them. These are the things you work together on before you make any legal or financial commitments to each other. And I think people love to jump into those legal and financial commitments because, oh, we bought a house together. Isn't this great?

Yeah, in a lot of ways it's great. But yeah, not understanding the financial aspects of that and where you're coming from can lead to some issues down the road.

It lead to issues down the road, and may you may not be financially taking care of yourself. I remember someone came to me and said, oh, yeah, we're buying a house. And I said, great, do you have a partnership agreement? And they're like, why would we do that? I said, have you gone to a lawyer in case you, you know, who gets out of the house if someone wants to get up? She looked at me and said, no, that's not going to be our issue. We're okay. And I said, I highly recommend you do this, everybody. It's part of a process. And they did end up separated, and she lost out a lot of her down payment because it wasn't in writing of what she provided versus what he provided.

So if we start when we're a couple, we start at the beginning, right? Going back further to understand how we think and feel, what our values and mindsets, the those things that we absorbed from our parents or other people along the way, and then appreciate those differences. If that's our starting point, where do we go from there?

Well, I think you don't truly appreciate him. I think the starting point that we just talked about, I don't think you appreciate him till farther down the road, honestly. You just can acknowledge them because you're like, oh, that's very different than I grew up. If you and I just bantered back and forth forth here. Your parents, your family of origin probably handle finances differently. Probably had a different background. The second one is really when you sh. Start to share numbers and facts.

Okay, this is how much I make. I make $100,000. You make $65,000. We're talking about moving in together. Do we get something we can split 50, 50 that $65,000 salary can afford, or $100,000 can afford, or somewhere in between. How do we approach that? That's when you get into the numbers bit, then you can start the deeper communication. But it's not until you're really in the numbers that you start to go, oh, okay, now we're having a numbers conversation and. And seeing how this affects us.

Right.

And after you get through, you know, we've acknowledged it, became more aware of all of these pieces, then I think we can appreciate it. That's the third step. And set up something that works. And I'll jump to that third step just for a second. James. The easiest example is it cost me a lot more to get my hair cut than my husband's. If you saw us here, you'd Understand, it's not much. So if that's the case and we're splitting everything down the middle, wait a minute, it's off.

Or if we're talking about let's keep $1,000 each a month for our spending money, what's that for? What are we going to do? That's when you kind of acknowledge the differences.

Yeah, yeah. And I can see, I see it in my practice all the time that couples that don't go through that process and have that conversation again, they're operating separately together, but they don't understand the impact on the other of the decisions that they've made. So, for example, I worked with a couple in their transition to retirement, and after we got them into retirement, it. I realized that the way they had set things up, the woman was the breadwinner, so she paid a lot of the bills and then the husband's salary went to savings and investments, which was fantastic. But when the paradigm shifts and you find yourself in retirement, the, the setup that they had for paying the bills and the day to day, all that burden remained on the wife and they're on equal footing in terms of retirement income. And all of a sudden she's feeling a lot of stress and anxiety about the day to day when they had plenty of money and the husband couldn't quite understand what was going on. And it all originated from them operating a certain way for 30 or 40 years and not really addressing that until they got into retirement. What's the impact of how we've set things up here on each other?

Back to that number two, and that how it's set up, it's not made in stone. It has to be fluid. So that's the communication part. Like you don't just say, this is the way it is, end of story. There needs to be conversations about it and re evaluations every year or so.

Right.

If people are doing things like that, it trips them up. And the sooner you can make it, we're doing this together and we can see each other's accounts, we see where the money's going and we, instead of one does this and the other does that. I had a couple who were both legal professionals and just split everything down the middle. They did have one joint account, but basically she paid for stuff and he paid for his stuff, just as you explained. Then they had a baby and, and he paid for some things, but she paid for most of the things for the kid and the adorable baby, I should say, not just the kid. And they were about to have a second baby. And they came to me for the first time and he's like, I don't understand why she's so stressed. Well, she's paying for diapers and about to pay some more diapers and da da.

So it was eye opening process. But if it's not happening every few years. This system worked great till their life changed, but it still needs to be revisited no matter what the age before retirement. You know, I'd say at least every five years.

Yeah, yeah. It's easy to fall into routines and things work right the way that people get together and it kind of works right. Till your life changed. I think that's a great example. A baby is a big life transition.

I would say it works for a lot of people. And I'm putting that in quotes because works means we're not arguing about it or fighting about it.

Right.

Doesn't mean it's really the best, you know, way to do it for us. It just.

I, that's an interesting point and I was thinking about it earlier in our conversation. What do you think about people? And we're touching on it here where it kind of works for a long time, but there's this underlying stress or maybe anxiety, maybe it's on one side or both, but it's just not addressed. Both people kind of had have their head in the sand. Maybe not fully having their head in the sand, but it's like I'm going to leave well enough alone because this conversation is stressful. Every time we've tried to sit down and get on the same page, it's led to an argument. It's felt really uncomfortable. So people just leave well enough alone because it's, it's working.

So, so we're generalizing because I would have to know exact more of the circumstances. So realizing I don't think they went back and did that deeper dive, first themselves about their fear around money and then together sharing that. That's why that's the first step. Have we shared about the emotions and how this would work? Because obviously if someone's afraid of heights, you're not going to say, let's go in this roller coaster, isn't this great, and drag them with you. And then the other person's not going to say anything. We don't know what fear around money is there, but that's exactly what's happening. No one's talking. But you might have to do that deeper dive.

And if you haven't had progress as a couple there, I'd highly recommend financial therapy to dig deeper into that as individuals, before you even come together and talk about it. I mean, obviously therapy works as well, but financial therapy, if you're talking about just these issues. So I. That's important. And the second piece to that is I always tell couples, when they say, well, we got in an argument over it. I say, great. Glad to hear it. Because for some reason, people think they shouldn't argue about money.

Tell me more about that.

We're two distinct human beings. We have different ways of thinking, processing, agreeing on things. And if we disagree how to spend a $2,000 refund, great, we're having a conversation. If it turns into a huge steamed fight argument that goes on for days, that's an issue. But a disagreement or an argument over what to do with it, no problem. Because that means we get into the core of some things. And I always, since I've been in practice, there was a woman, Victoria Felton Collins, who wrote a book, Couples and money, in 1990. She was a forerunner.

She was a CFP and a PhD, and she said, have money dates. And she explained what they were and modeled them. Everybody. Many financial people are speaking about it now, but she's the first one I have ever seen it in writing.

I'm glad you brought up that reference, because they get talked about. We talk about it all the time. Money dates, money meetings. What should that look like? And I never really understood the origin. That was just always in the ether. So now we have a name and a book to actually connect that to. That's awesome.

Yeah, I'm glad I mentioned it, too. She. She was great. And she described it in. I encourage money dates because they're more serious than and more personal than a meeting. I tell people not to go out to dinner. Like, one of my clients misread me and said, oh, it's expensive to have money dates. We've been going out to dinner all the time.

I'm like, no, no, we have conversations, but that there's a beginning and end point to this. So I say do an hour, hour and a half max. If you're in the middle of an argument, hour and a half in. Great. Okay. Table it to the next time. Don't hang on to this or a discussion or have 50 things to talk about. That just means you need more money dates.

No one wants to talk about money more than, you know, an hour, an hour and a half, even. I glaze over when I'm running a meeting that turns into two hours. And I think we need to stop this.

So, yeah, there's a point. Everybody's got to move on.

Right, right.

And do something a little bit more appealing at the time. Yeah. Can I. Something you said before about the differences between this couple that was moving in together and their differences in income. I wanted to jump back there real quick because I've seen this come up in my practice and the work that I do with couples where sometimes how they operate in terms of spending or decisions they're making seems to be tied to the breadwinner or the difference in salary. I don't know if I'm explaining that really, really well, but it's. I make X, I make plenty of money, I should be able to do Y. Right.

Or I'm going to pay certain things because. Because of my income. Right. There's. There's this kind of, this concept of what's mine, what's ours, what are we doing together. That, that seems to kind of trip a lot of couples up. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Where there's. I'd love to have some examples of what you're saying that they'll do because that examples help.

Right. So for example, let's say we have a husband and wife and the husband is the breadwinner.

So then this is not just a couple couple. I mean, I, I like to distinguish between a couple, partners and spouses because spouses are legally wed and their financial and legal commitments are very different than part life partners or.

Interesting. Okay, let's talk about that a little bit more because I, I throw them all together maybe mistakenly here in my mind.

Totally. If you go and look up. I know I've looked in Vermont and I think Massachusetts is similar. There's over 2,000 rights and responsibilities for married couples. Interesting. Including if you're married, you can go visit your spouse in jail. So it gets into a lot of detail. But what's important is if one spouse died, the other one, we get the money because they're married.

If you're partners, not necessarily, unless you have done all the footwork there.

Right, right. So even thinking about the legal aspects of the form of your relationship, whether it's life, partner, a couple, married spouses, it's critical.

I had no judgment. People can be married, not married, whatever. But I think some people get married without realizing what those rights and responsibilities are. And some people stay not married and forget about those rights and responsibilities. And some people. I have a neighbor who got married after 35 years of being together. She said every once in a while my partner would say, do you want to get married? And I'd say, Nah. And then one day I said, okay.

Yeah, yeah, just on a whim, right. Feel like time after 35 years. Yeah, good for her and good for them. So in this particular hypothetical example, let's say it's a spouse, right? Husband and wife.

Right.

Married couple. They've been operating together separately and it, it's worked for a while and now they're trying to come together and develop some longer term plans. And what we'll notice a lot of times is let's say the husband is the breadwinner and they're paying different bills based on the process that they had set up over the years. And we start looking at how they're spending money individually and we try to set a budget. Each of you can spend $500 a month on whatever you'd like. And that becomes really, really challenging for the breadwinner. And we'll hear things like, well, I make a good living, I pay all these bills, I should be able to spend more than this budgeted amount. Right.

And to take it a step further, let's say that the, the wife, the spouse is feeling a lot of anxiety about the overall financial situation and maybe they're not going to be able to accomplish some future financial goals. And it's just this, I always find it kind of interesting and challenging position where how they're operating individually, they're tying to their income and what they're contributing to the table and they're not thinking about it as this legal arrangement, they, that it's all, all ours, right? This is all our money, right? Do you have any kind of thoughts or comments on that?

Well, they have to do the deep, deep dive first. Where are they emotionally? What's their past pattern? What, what happened in their younger childhood? Were they married before and did someone take something away from them? Did the main breadwinner grow up so poor that he even feels more entitled? Now? There's a lot to unpack on this simple thing. And that's why whoever's listening as a couple, it's important to go in and listen to an objective person. So that's one piece. And then I would say, do they have a joint account and how are they funding that joint account? Because I heard a fatal flaw in a couple that, that breadwinner said, I am paying these bills. Well, if everyone's contributing to the same joint account in the same percentage of their paycheck, it's a different approach. And you know, how much do they want to spend? I could, I could stay for hours with you and I don't want to because people will be like, I'm sick of listening to her. But I don't do a budget ever.

I do a spending plan. You guys together have this much money as a couple where. What priorities do you have? It changes the question, right? It takes a lot. It's a longer process, but it changes the question.

Yeah, budgeted that term. And the process always feels really restrictive. Right. It doesn't feel like a combined joint effort that we have this pot of money and we're gonna align and figure out where to spend it together.

We don't have this pot of money. We earn this pot of money. And why do we earn it? You know, I, for me, I love to go on vacation and travel. So that's why I earn my money. So I can feed something I really enjoy. And someone else it might be to go clothes shopping. Someone else it might be to go on fishing trips with the boys. The boys, the men, whoever.

And you just need to like expand out what is out there and why. Because it's all about the why.

Right, Right. Where were we?

So we, we were with this couple and they weren't getting anywhere because they needed to do a deep dive. And I would say he needs to change his language from I pay for this. And they both need to look at what they spend. Because you gave the example of heterosexual couple and I gave you the example of here. So if you're giving them the same amount of money, she has a lot less to spend because she, if she wants to go around with decent hair, you know, that's. And sometimes they divide it like that and then one of them picks up more of the groceries. So really they're up the creek. So this is the process and the key to fixing it now so they don't end up like that couple that you mentioned in retirement.

Right, right. So starting at the beginning, really understand where people are coming from, what their why is. We talked about a spending plan instead of a budget. What else should we make sure that. That couples are focused on? Are there any of your other 10 points that we should make sure we cover?

Well, I, I would just say it's baby, baby steps. First of all, in any change for any person or any couple, it's going to be baby steps. So on those 10 things, I talk about investments. And so tell me what the investment style you have because you're probably both different. And it could be a same sex couple. One person is more aggressive than the other. It could be one's a business owner and one's not Their investment style is going to be totally different, James. And that's okay.

What happens is they sometimes say, no, you have to be like me. And I'll give you an example again from years ago. Clients came to me and I didn't take assets under management, but I looked at all their investments and said, oh, you're very conservative. And it was a woman. They were a couple and they were married. You're very conservative and your husband, you're very risky. But when we look at all these assets together and do an investment allocation for you as a couple, because I'm guessing you're retiring together, most people say, well, yeah, well, if you're retiring together and your investment allocation is balanced for someone your age, this is great. They, I didn't see them for about two years, but that happens.

They came back, they had went and talked to someone at a, at an investment company. I don't know if we threw a bank, somehow they got directed and this person took all his investments and balanced them, making them more conservative. Took all hers and balanced them. It made them more aggressive. And they were like, well, did they do the right thing? I said, essentially, they do what? Did what you had before. But there was a lot of buying and selling going on in between.

Right. To fit their model, their investment model.

So that's even in investments, we have to let someone be who they are. We don't want them up all night because their investments are at risk.

Yeah. And what about. I've seen situations where there's one person who is conservative, the other one is very comfortable taking risk, but one person will kind of cave to the other. Right. They're the be too conservative or they'll be too aggressive. Because one partner or spouse or whoever in this relationship just throws up their hands and says, this isn't worth the argument. I'll just give in to the other person and we'll be either more conservative or more aggressive and the conversation's over. Do you have any thoughts on that? How do we keep them thinking about what they're working on together or how do we move somebody like that forward?

I think it is about doing that deep dive and asking the person, are you willing to sacrifice your retirement because someone got more risky with your money? And I'd go back to, are they married? Well, what are you going to do when the spouse dies? If it's the risky partner, then they're going to move everything riskier. If it's the conservative partner, they're moving more conservative. Why don't you make a long Term plan now. So it hasn't. Doesn't have to be major stress going forward. I think that's just another conversation that a couple is avoiding because it will be a disagreement. Thinking money isn't disagreement. And I would.

If the person is not speaking up, I would say, what is your ownership of that money? A lot of people disown their money.

What does that mean? Tell me a little bit more about that.

They don't claim it. Oh, Well, I have 500,000 in retirement. That doesn't mean anything. I'll let you that my partner just take care of it. Because they're better at it. I am always like, they're better at it. And with all due respect to men who I love, amazingly, there was actually a study that men tend to be more overconfident about the stock market and making trades. And this was back in 2001.

Harvard and MIT did the study, but they make more trades and they come out almost 3% behind, but they're confident. So.

Right, right. A good lesson for all of us men out there.

Well, and a good lesson for anyone who feels that way. I've seen it in the flip as well, gender wise.

Right.

Yeah. And. And I. I'll jump in with. You've studied this career as a financial planner and investment person for a long time. I know people who say, oh, in retirement I'm going to manage my own money. And I think, great, so you were, you know, lawyer, surgeon, fireman, and now you're just switching careers and going to manage money. Great.

Yeah, I would say. And share that even as a financial planner, my business partner manages a lot of my money. Me, I'm part of the firm. We run the business together. But I don't do anything investment wise without bouncing it off of another professional to gut check what I'm up to then.

That's exactly. From the professional side. All of us financial planners need a financial planner.

Yeah. Amen to that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned before we could keep chatting on any of these specific things that have come up. We could probably expand upon them for. For hours and kind of nerd out together because I know we share a passion for this subject. I guess one of the last questions at the end of the day, what should Money Piece, which is the name of your business and website. If a couple's working together and they're exploring their background and they're figuring out where people are coming from and they're understanding their investment type, really getting to know people and align what they're up to at the end of the day, what, what does money piece, what should that look like if they've done all these things?

Well, that as a couple you're making conscious choices. That's the big thing. If you're making conscious choices, you're gonna live more peacefully.

So by doing that work and going a little bit deeper and understanding where people are coming from, that kind of frees you up, it seems like to make a conscious choice that we've decided how to operate together, moving forward consciously. Right, we're aware of it.

Absolutely. Because awareness is key when it comes to your money, your spouse and balance.

Yeah, it's great. Anything else? Any tips, any other points that you.

Wanted to Just remember joyfully, men and women are different. If it's the same sex couple that you're attracted to someone opposites attract, like these are learning opportunities. There's nothing wrong with the other person. It's just give it time. We need to communicate. So have some conscious couple communications. Pay attention to this stuff, get my newsletter or read some of the things on my website, go to a talk, whatever. Just the more information you pick up, there's a lot of valuable experts out there who have led the way before James and I, from Olivia Mellon to Victoria Felton Collins that I mentioned.

Just people who have been doing it. So pick up what works for you.

Yeah, yeah. And one thing I'd add to that, would I. What I wanted to make sure I stressed the comment you made about the transition and it taking time and taking baby steps. If you think about, you know, operating as an individual and then coming together as a couple and then all of a sudden you're sitting down and trying to make these changes and have these deep conversations. It's not, it's going to be messy, it's not going to be perfect and it's going to take a while. And it's something you have to always be conscious of and revisiting right. Over time. So give yourself some grace, pun intended.

And, and just get to the table and do your best and look for those resources. You mentioned, financial therapy, which I'm a huge proponent of. We've incorporated that into our practice. There are are people like Christine out there and many others that are open to helping and providing resources. So Christine, thank you so much for your time. I want to highlight your book, Creating your Money Peace, your road to Financial Health and Stability. One of the questions that I ask folks is if they have any recommendations for resources and books. You've mentioned two and one of which I'm going to Forget the name again.

You've mentioned it twice. Was the origination of the money date? Can you remind us?

Couples and money.

Couples and money. So we'll make sure that we put that on our resource page of our website so people can kind of click through and find that Your website is.

Moneypeace.Com P E A C E. Just think what I'm creating in the world.

Awesome. So moneypeace.com creating your money piece. The book will reference some other resources that have come up in the conversation. Is there anything else you want to share or spotlight for folks? Social media places People should check you out. Are you looking anywhere?

People can find me both on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook and I'll be speaking at CFP Connections for financial Planners in the fall. And hopefully I'll line up some other things in New England so I'll get closer to down your way.

James yeah, can't wait to check it out in person. Christine Moriarty, thank you so much for your time, your experience and expertise and your knowledge on the subject is is really invaluable to have you here and share your thoughts. So thank you so much for joining us everybody. If you enjoyed the conversation, feel free to check out modernfinancialwellness.com and the resource page in particular where we catalog all the good resources and books and everything that are coming up. And don't forget to subscribe to the show. Until next time everybody. Thanks again. Thanks again for listening to this episode.

A quick note, although I do hope that the information that we talked about was helpful, in no way is anything discussed on the podcast to be taken as specific financial advice. Please consult your own advisors and do your own research when you're making important financial decisions.