Flying on Instruments: An Interview with Vanessa Peters

In this episode of Curious Goldfish, host Jason English interviews singer-songwriter, Vanessa Peters. They discuss her new album 'Flying on Instruments,' set to release in February 2024, and the unique challenges that today's music industry technology presents, such as AI bots trademark craziness. Vanessa expresses that even though a sustainable living in music might not be possible for her, she's finding freedom in carefully crafting her music. Vanessa ends the interview with two performances.

00:07 Introduction and Personal Reflections

00:58 Welcome to Curious Goldfish: The Podcast

02:07 The Paradox of Today's Aspiring Musician

02:48 Vanessa Peters: The Songwriter's Journey

06:10 The Songwriting Process and Challenges

08:32 The Personal and Emotional Aspects of Songwriting

21:04 The Business Side of Music and Challenges

26:44 Reflections on Music Career and Future Goals

29:50 Conclusion: The Meaning of Music

I thought Mary Poppins was like the coolest and I'm definitely

2

sort of a spoon full of sugar person

anyway, like just sort of a irritating

3

sunbeam sort of Pollyanna person.

4

And I was always, I think, I mean, that

is a very cool trick that she has this

5

bag where she can just pull out whatever

she needs, but, If you watch the movie

6

closely or read the book or whatnot,

you, you realize there's the sort of

7

sad undertone to her, to her life.

8

And also, she doesn't

have all the answers.

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And I think, if you carry around the bag.

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With too many of the memories and

the things that you're kind of

11

clinging to, I think that gets to

be sort of a psychic weight that

12

you're carrying without realizing it.

13

You don't even realize one day like

how heavy it has actually become

14

until finally you do set it down and

you're like, Whoa, what a relief.

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Jason English (Host): Welcome to

Curious Goldfish, a podcast community

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where music and curiosity come together

through interesting conversations

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with the music makers of our world.

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I'm your host, Jason English.

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You can find Curious Goldfish and all the

major podcasts and social media platforms.

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And of course we have all of our

content on our website, curiousgoldfish.

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com.

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You never really know what direction

some of these conversations

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with singer songwriters and

musicians are going to take.

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Sometimes they stay pretty high level

about music tastes and upcoming albums.

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Other times they might take a

more personal turn talking about

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personal struggles, challenges,

heartbreak, all the things that might

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be the inspiration for great art.

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We cover most all of those angles

in this episode with Vanessa Peters.

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But I didn't expect to have topics

like AI bots and Malaysian troll

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farms to be part of the conversation.

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But that's the paradox for

today's aspiring musician.

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Technology innovation has democratized

the industry to allow artists more

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outlets to connect with their fans and

also enabling fans to have more direct

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access to their favorite musicians.

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But that same technology can also throw

unexpected obstacles into the mix,

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which Vanessa tells us about today.

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And she does tell us a lot about

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Ironically, it's called

flying on instruments.

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We're grateful.

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Vanessa spent time with us during the

38 songwriters festival in Florida,

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and she performs two songs off that

new album accompanied by the sound

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of surf and warmth of sun behind her.

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Here's Vanessa Peters.

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Let's dive in.

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Vanessa, really appreciate your time.

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Yes,

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Vanessa Peters: Thank you for having me.

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I'm excited to be here.

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Jason English (Host): We're here in

Florida for the Songwriters Festival.

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How many times have you been here?

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This

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Vanessa Peters: This is my fourth,

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It's been a couple of years.

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Jason English (Host): How's

the weekend gone so far?

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Vanessa Peters: It's been nice.

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It's been really nice, actually.

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Jason English (Host): Do you approach

this more focused on the performances

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that you have, or is it connecting with

other artists in between gigs and stuff?

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Or what's your goal in

a weekend like this?

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Vanessa Peters: That's a good question.

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It is probably more gigs for me

although in the years past artists

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get we get housing provided and so

sometimes we are in a shared house

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with roomates and sometimes we are in

a hotel and years past I've always been

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In a share house, and so

it was a great opportunity,

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people I'd never met.

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And I was also a little bit more centrally

located, so it was easier for me to

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kind of venue hop and meet some people

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This trip, it was a little

bit different cause I was.

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It's in a gorgeous hotel, but

it's practically in Destin,

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it's like way far down away.

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And so I was a little bit more, isolated

in that regard, I guess, but it was also

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nice because I was exhausted from travel.

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And so it kind of, probably

better that I didn't try to

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burn the candle at both ends.

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Stay up late and go to all the showcases.

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I probably needed to catch

up on my rest a little bit.

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So it all worked out.

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I did.

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Last night I went, after my, my set

was over and drove across town over

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to go see, uh, Toby Lightman and John

Oates play, which was really nice.

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It was a really, really, uh, they

had a lot of simpatico feeling,

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it was, it was a good set.

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So yeah.

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I know, it's pretty rad.

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I actually got to open for him a couple

of years ago in Texas, uh, and in

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Charlotte, North Carolina, randomly.

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He's a very nice guy.

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He's, yeah.

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And it's, it's fun to see this other side

of him, the Americana side, or whatever.

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But he did close with, she's gone

last night, which was pretty rad,

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to be honest, just to hear it in

a very acoustic, stripped down,

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stripped down way like that, you know.

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It was cool,

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Jason English (Host): So you mentioned

you're exhausted from travel.

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Is that from the jet lag from Italy

or is that the 13 hour drive from

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Vanessa Peters: right?

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It's all the travels.

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Yeah, no, I had this crazy day where

I like on Sunday, I took a train from

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where I live down to Rome and then had a

very little sleep at the hotel and then

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got up and flew from Rome to Dallas.

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And then.

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The next day I had to package

and sign like 85 vinyl for my pre

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orders and stuff for the new record.

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And then I had to go get like my

guitar serviced and go get a rental

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car and, say hi to my parents.

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And then the next day I drove, to 30A.

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So it was kind of, it was a little bit

nuts, but I'm, I'm catching up on rest.

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I'll get there

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Jason English (Host):

Well, good, well good.

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And do you live in Tuscany?

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Vanessa Peters: I do.

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Jason English (Host): Oh

my gosh, that's not Dallas.

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Vanessa Peters: not Dallas, it's

true, and it's always so awkward

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because it probably, I know that

people instantly think like, oh,

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trust fund baby or I don't know, it's

just, you cannot say that you live

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in Italy without people going, oh,

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(laughter) rest

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but it's not like that.

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It's a much longer story that

involves like a lot of washing of

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dishes and, slogging and bureaucracy

and and all sorts of things.

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So listeners rest assured.

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I didn't just waltz in on some

sort of golden visa or whatever.

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can assure you

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Jason English (Host): no judgement,

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it's more fomo jealousy.

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know I know

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Vanessa Peters: it's amazing it's

a I'm not gonna lie it's beautiful.

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Jason English (Host): And you're

probably tired from all the activity

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around a song release on Friday.

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The song's halfway through, right?

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Your new album is out

February 23rd, right?

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Are you excited?

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Vanessa Peters: I am excited.

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It's been a long time coming.

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We started recording it in January

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backburnered because of life things.

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Like we decided to sell our house and

move across the world and various other

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massive, upheavally things happened.

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And so it just kind of got stuck

for a while, but finally, finally

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it's coming out and I'm very glad.

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Jason English (Host): So That's

exciting, the song your released

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that's the first one one right?

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And you have another one

coming out February 2nd, right?

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Better.

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Better?

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What, why halfway through as the, you

know, the first, the first track?

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Um,

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Vanessa Peters: well for one

it's definitely the most polished

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poppy radio, possibly

sounding song, I guess.

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It's the first one that I

wrote of that batch of songs.

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And to me, it sort of feels like,

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from

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like the mama bear of the songs.

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Like it feels like the song from

which everything else came, I

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suppose, you know, um, thematically.

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I feel like it.

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It is one of the ones that

ties the record together.

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There are a few others that also are

sort of thematic tent poles, but they're

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probably a little too, introspective

and slow for the modern world.

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So this one at least has

a reasonable beat to it.

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Jason English (Host): You know,chicken

or egg question I guess, does the

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theme come first or does the theme

come from a collection of songs

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and you're like ok, there you go

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Vanessa Peters: It depends.

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I've written some albums that I kind of

sat down to write them almost as concept

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albums, you know, that were around.

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Certain characters or things like that.

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The last couple that I've

written have not been that way.

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I've, I've just taken a batch of songs

into the studio and recorded them all

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and then sifted through them to see

which ones played nicely together.

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So halfway through was actually written,

uh, at the tail end of the Modern Age

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session, but it was just too, it was

a little bit too country for, I'm not

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even really a country artist at all.

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And I wouldn't call this song

country per se, but it has a

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little bit of country twang to it.

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And it just would have stuck out

like a sore thumb on modern age.

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So we.

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We hacked it.

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But we hacked it by patting it nicely on

the head and telling it, don't worry song.

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We got a special place for

you on the next record.

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Jason English (Host): Help is

on the way, yeah that's good.

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In the song you mentioned Mary

Poppins, and I think you've, you've

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talked about the symbolism of the

bag that she's carrying I guess.

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Can you expand?

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Vanessa Peters: Yeah.

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I mean, so I, I loved

that movie growing up.

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I love Julie Andrews.

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She was one of my idols.

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I thought Mary Poppins was like the

coolest and I'm definitely sort of

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a spoon full of sugar person anyway,

like just sort of a irritating

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sunbeam sort of Pollyanna person.

192

And I was always, I think, I mean, that

is a very cool trick that she has this

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bag where she can just pull out whatever

she needs, you know, but, uh, If you

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watch the movie closely or read the book

or whatnot, you, you realize there's the

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sort of sad undertone to her, to her life.

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And also, she doesn't

have all the answers.

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She, she can pull out a lot of things from

the bag, but she can't pull out answers.

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She can't pull out band aids to fix

everything from there, you know?

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And, I'm one of those people that

try as definitely irritatingly

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over, over prepared in all ways.

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Like I always have too many bags

that I'm carrying full of post its

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and pens and, and possible fix, fix

it things and, , as sort of a, it's

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almost like a talisman of warding off

disaster, like I'm going to be prepared

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so that there won't be any problems.

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And that's just this weird psycho

control thing that I have to get past.

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And I think, if you carry around the bag.

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With too many of the memories and

the things that you're kind of

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clinging to, I think that gets to

be sort of a psychic weight that

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you're carrying without realizing it.

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It's also one of those things where like

you have, you have this bag of emotions

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or whatnot that you're carrying and you're

at, you add one thing at a time and it's

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kind of the boiling frog phenomenon.

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You don't even realize one day like

how heavy it has actually become

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until finally you do set it down and

you're like, Whoa, what a relief.

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So that's kind of that.

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Second verse in a nutshell.

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No, I think it was just kind of

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on the globe, with a frontal lobe,

they were contemplating mortality and,

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what to do with the rest of your life.

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If life was ever going to go on

normally again, and if it did,

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where, where would you want to go?

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What would you want to do?

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And maybe how would you want

to be a different person?

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What sort of things would you like

to shake off about your old self

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and maybe move forward, you know,

shed your skin sort of thing.

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So I think that's, that was, that

was sort of the kernel of the song

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when I got started writing it.

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I mean, I was just about to turn 40 and.

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You know, your 40th birthday and

lockdown is not terribly exciting,

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but I was lucky because I was, at a

recording session because at the time

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Italy had had a very, uh, intense

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So we didn't actually have any COVID

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So while here in the States, everybody,

that was kind of when COVID really

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started raging for the first time was

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on like kind of amazing vacations in

the country where everything was empty

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because there were no tourists, you

know, it was like, I saw this side of.

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These beautiful places I'll,

that I'll never get to see again.

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And we were, and we got to

go into the studio, um, at a

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farmhouse to make this record.

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And I was keenly aware of how, how lucky

I was to be able to do this at all.

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While so many people like

couldn't see their loved ones.

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And I was hanging out with my,

with my bandmates and making this

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record and thinking like, man, this

is you never do know when it's your

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last shot to do this sort thing.

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So put everything into it

that you can, you know?

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Jason English (Host): Yeah.

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You mentioned earlier about, no

more clinging to the past and

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letting things sort of fester.

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I mean, that kind of goes back to, you

know, this whole idea of being a goldfish.

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Yeah.

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Did you watch Ted Lasso?

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Yeah.

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Like what, what did that, not

really the show, but like the whole

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idea of, of that, the 10 second

memory and kind of moving on.

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Did that resonate with you?

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Vanessa Peters: Oh, yeah.

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Oh, yeah.

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We talked about that a little bit

earlier as well, but I mean, I think it's

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funny that, that, that Ted talks about.

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About the goldfish and how it's happy

because it has such a short memory.

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And we're meant to believe that that

is what, what he, how he tries to live

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his life and it may well be how, how

he tries to live his life, but we also

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come to realize, you know, especially

going through the series, like how much

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pain he is holding onto and is, is not

really even letting himself acknowledge.

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And that's, again, he's sort of carrying

that bag full of stuff that he hasn't

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figured out how to put down yet,

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Jason English (Host): Yeah, I was going

to read, in setting this interview up.

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I give you context of this podcast

and kind of what we're trying

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to talk about and the idea of not

letting things go and weigh you down.

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And you said in an email, though, I'm not

as good at it as Ted purports it to be

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Vanessa Peters: It's Ted.

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I

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Jason English (Host):

though perhaps neither is

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Vanessa Peters: yeah, you know, he's Mr.

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Jason English (Host): that was great

because yeah, you know, he's Mr.

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Positive.

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He's the motivator.

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He's the leader.

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He seems like he's.

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Vanessa Peters: hey, if this guy, if it

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Jason English (Host):

and then it gets dark

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Vanessa Peters: But, you

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Jason English (Host): you're like, man,

if this guy, if it gets dark for this

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Vanessa Peters: work through

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Jason English (Host): He tries to work

through it, but yeah, I thought that was

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a great point because, the episode

where the locker room is built on top

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or yeah, built on top of, this, haunted

area and they have the whole ceremony

288

where they, they sort of like, you know,

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area.

290

And they, purge the ghosts

it's like, we all have our

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Vanessa Peters: where

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Jason English (Host): right?

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Even Ted, you know,

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Vanessa Peters: yeah there are so many

insightful things in that series that

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are just really great lessons to learn

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learn.

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And

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he's,

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a classic example, and I know

that I'm this way as well.

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I mean, if I ever would just

take my own good advice, I'd

301

probably be, I'd probably be set.

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You know what I mean?

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Like, Ted is fantastic at motivating

his players and giving them advice

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to live their lives, but he's not

always that good at taking his own

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advice to live by it, you know?

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And I think that that's one of the things

that I know I'm guilty of, for sure.

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People come to me.

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I'm a pretty good listener, and

I'm good at giving advice, and I'm

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terrible at following my own, you know?

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Jason English (Host): that's a good point.

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So the other aspect obviously

is, curiosity, right?

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I think in another interview you

said, if we're doing it right, then

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life is a process of discovery and

we're all still learning, still trying

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to figure out how to live our best

lives, at this stage in your career,

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what are you most curious about?

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Vanessa Peters: Hmm.

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That's a very good question.

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I guess I'm still curious about, how to,

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How to make music without,

happy with without tying, I

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always want to put myself in it.

321

I mean, it's, I can't imagine like not

pouring myself into songs, but I would

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love to understand how to learn to put

myself in it and then detach myself from

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it, like to set it out into the world,

but without tying any sort of, like

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if an album does well, or if it's, if

it's poorly reviewed, not taking that

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back on myself, you know what I mean?

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Like I made this thing

and I'm happy with it.

327

And so that's all that matters.

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Like just learning not to care what

other people think about stuff is I'm,

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I'm very curious to know how other

people do it because I definitely

330

don't have any idea how to do it still.

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I'm also curious just to like, just to

explore other ways of writing songs.

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I've always kind of done it the same way.

333

And the guys I play with in my,

my band now are, they definitely

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approach it differently than I do.

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And I probably need to be better about.

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Coming to them and saying, like,

let's write a song your way instead of

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always being so demanding that it be.

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Done my way,

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Jason English (Host): So what,

what's the Vanessa Peters way?

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I just tend to

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Vanessa Peters: I mean, I just

tend to take my guitar and go whole

342

up in a room and work on lyrics.

343

Uh, usually, usually I work on the lyrics

first and then I ended up sort of noodling

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around on the guitar until I find a melody

that fits the structure of the words.

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It's, it's rare that I

write the music first.

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And they're definitely

all music first people.

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They all went to conservatory

and stuff in their.

348

You know, classically trained, and I

know that they approach it from a much

349

different mindset than I do, and we

started listening to a lot of jazz,

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and Steely Dan was like our, uh, was

351

man, we, we have listened to So, yeah.

352

If you look at my husband's Spotify,

or if you looked at like the, like his

353

Spotify unwrapped or whatever, it would

be like 99 percent of your listening

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time was either Bill Evans or Steely Dan.

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Um, it's pretty great, but those

are two artists that I, that I

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never was interested in before.

357

And, um, but now I've sort of gained

a lot of that musical vocabulary with

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just by osmosis, I sort of feel like.

359

So I think it would be sort of

interesting to start writing songs,

360

thinking how would Donald Fagen do this?

361

It would be a challenge for sure for me.

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Jason English (Host): the new

album, I think you've said too that.

363

It's very personal and you're

not using a lot of metaphors,

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Vanessa Peters: Mm hmm.

365

Jason English (Host): Was

that, that just happen

366

Vanessa Peters: yeah.

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It just happened.

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It's just the way these songs came about.

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I mean, some, like I said earlier, some

of the records I've done that are more

370

like concept albums definitely were more,

I wrote a record a long time ago that

371

was based heavily in Greek mythology.

372

And so a lot of the, a lot of the songs

might've been drawn from my personal

373

experience, but they were framed as.

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other characters like,

like Penelope and Odysseus.

375

And I had this whole backdrop

thing where I was trying to convey

376

a certain , je ne sais quoi, but,

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Jason English (Host): There you go.

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That's French.

379

You live in Italy.

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But on this

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Vanessa Peters: But on this

record, I wasn't doing that at all.

382

I wasn't trying I was just writing songs

that were just coming from the heart I

383

wasn't really trying to disguise them.

384

I wasn't trying to make it seem

like they weren't about me.

385

It was just like, yeah, if you know

me, even in passing, you can tell

386

that these songs are about my life.

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Jason English (Host): When it comes

out, what are one or two tracks that

388

stick out to you that you're like,

Hey, you know, if you're gonna listen

389

to a couple of songs, get those.

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Vanessa Peters: couple

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Jason English (Host): Yeah, obviously the

first two that you're pre releasing, but.

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Vanessa Peters: you're releasing.

393

Yeah.

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I love "How Long" it's track seven.

395

It's where the title comes from,

from flying on, flying on instruments

396

is, is in the bridge of that song.

397

And that song is super personal.

398

It's definitely a song that

sort of wrestles with mortality.

399

And tough decisions, and it kind of

comes from, again, talking about Ted

400

and people that are, I've always sort

of consider myself an eternal optimist,

401

and even though I feel like, especially

the last couple of years, some days are

402

just a slog when I think about all that

is going wrong in the world constantly,

403

it just feels like the world is on fire.

404

But I, I still remain

optimistic about the future.

405

But I said to my husband one day

in passing, I said, I'm optimistic

406

about the future, but how long

is it going to take to get there?

407

Like, where is this mythical future?

408

When are we ever going to get to this

quote unquote better future, you know?

409

And so that's actually the, the

chorus of the songs is, and I'm

410

optimistic about the future, but

how long will it take to get there?

411

I'm not sure.

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Jason English (Host): Is that an

analogy that if you're flying a

413

plane you can't see kinda where

you're going, you're just kind of

414

Vanessa Peters: yeah, that's where

Flying on Instruments comes from.

415

It's, you know, it's the idea

that you That you're basically,

416

the road ahead is dark and you

don't know what's ahead of you.

417

And you're, you're just trying

to take your best guess at

418

this point, to land safely.

419

And there are several songs, track three

is called Blind Curves and it has a very

420

similar theme about, you don't know what's

ahead and you're just, trying to wrestle

421

with the weight of expectations that

everybody else puts on you, but you're

422

also trying to set your own path forward.

423

And it's like, sometimes it's,

it's very hard to tow that line of.

424

Of being true to yourself, but also

not wanting to let other people down.

425

And it just, it's impossible

sometimes to not to feel like you're

426

just wandering through a dark wood.

427

You know,

428

Jason English (Host): Yeah,

429

Vanessa Peters: I, I keep, I keep

trying to, when I describe the record,

430

I'm like, it's kind of depressing.

431

And then my husband's

like, it's not depressing.

432

Don't tell people that it's introspective.

433

And he's right.

434

It's because at the end of the

day, it's when I describe it to

435

you like that, I'm like, God,

that does sound really depressing.

436

But, um, every song has its resolution at

the end where it's it is going to be fine.

437

Basically, you just got to keep putting

one foot in front of the other and it may

438

be dark for a long time, but eventually

you will get through the wood, eventually

439

you will come out the other side.

440

The song ends with a

record called Wasted Days.

441

And it ends with basically with a line

saying it's okay that there are bridges

442

that you burned as long as the lesson

that you learned is that as long as

443

there are lessons that you have learned,

then maybe they weren't wasted days.

444

It's this funny sort of like

almost electronic sounding

445

song because we recorded it

with Mellotrons and Bokophones.

446

We're like these weird little things

that you put on your iPhone that

447

make this like noise and it's sort

of strange and, uh, and haunting.

448

And I, and I really like how it, it

seems like it's going to be this very

449

dark, sad song, but it ends with this

idea that you know what, as long as

450

you learned something from it, whatever

it was, it wasn't a waste of your time.

451

Jason English (Host): That's amazing.

452

All right.

453

Vanessa Peters: That feels very Ted, too.

454

Jason English (Host): yes,

that's, that's, I love that.

455

Vanessa Peters: maybe I was

Ted Lasso in a past life.

456

Jason English (Host): I mean,

it sounds like it, I wish.

457

Yeah, that's, that's,

that's, that's really good.

458

So flying on instruments.

459

What, which album is

this in your portfolio?

460

Vanessa Peters: It's my 12th full length.

461

Jason English (Host): Wow.

462

Vanessa Peters: And, um,

I guess 14th overall.

463

Cause I have two EPS as well.

464

So

465

Jason English (Host):

Well, congratulations.

466

That's a, that's a good career.

467

Yeah, that's good.

468

I'm sure, and I'm sure not even

close to being finished, obviously.

469

Vanessa Peters: Hope not.

470

Jason English (Host): You've talked a

little bit in other interviews about

471

the business side of things and how

472

You wish you knew a few operating

procedures there wasn't a manual

473

for you to, learn the craft

and learn the business side.

474

But in those 12 albums, what do

you wish you would have known?

475

Vanessa Peters: Know, there

may have even been an operating

476

manual and I was probably just

too young and dumb to open it.

477

But, I started making music at a time when

478

There was this little golden age

right there at the end of the

479

nineties, early two thousands, when

the internet was exciting and wasn't

480

scary for artists when it actually

seemed like a lot of potential.

481

To be able to connect with your fans and

sell music directly without worrying about

482

piracy, because all that was so new and

everything was changing so rapidly, like

483

all of a sudden you had to have a website

and then you had to have a MySpace and

484

then now, you know, now you have to have

a SoundCloud and you have to have a.

485

So you're constantly having to

learn these new platforms and stuff.

486

And along the way, it's impossible for

there not to be like digital cruft, like

487

things that you didn't clean up properly.

488

I had no idea that I should even

consider trademarking my name.

489

Cause it never even occurred to me

that that would ever be an issue.

490

And it probably never would have

been if it wasn't for AI bots.

491

I was just reading this horrifying article

today that I will, I can forward you just

492

Jason English (Host): you.

493

Yeah.

494

Vanessa Peters: perusal,

but it's about this.

495

duo that released, pre released all

their stuff on SoundCloud just for

496

some friends to listen to and some bots

scraped it, changed all the titles and

497

re released it under their own name.

498

And so when they went to go release

it, all the distributors rejected

499

it because the digital fingerprints

now belonged to somebody else.

500

Crazy.

501

And it's just like, I mean, so that, that

stuff that like, obviously when I started

502

recording music in 2002, they're like,

nobody could have told us about that,

503

Jason English (Host): You

can't fathom that, yeah.

504

Vanessa Peters: would have been

really nice to have, I guess I've had

505

the forethought to know, , I should

trademark, trademark my artist's name.

506

I should, take great care with,

copyright and, with registering my

507

songs with, not only with BMI, but

508

With SoundExchange and all of these

different, collections, even now

509

when I start to think about all of

it, I'm like, I get the total heebie

510

jeebies because it's just a ton

of paperwork and there's so much,

511

Well, margin

512

for error.

513

And if you don't enter everything

exactly correctly about who the writer

514

is and who the composer is and who's

the publisher, whatever, then you

515

risk not getting anything at all.

516

And since there's no money in most of

what we do, it's like, like the only money

517

that might be out there is that money,

you know, and it sucks to think that

518

that's probably just sitting somewhere

in an account because maybe I didn't

519

enter the publisher name and the right.

520

Column on this massive spreadsheet that

they sent me to fill out, you know,

521

Jason English (Host): is

that your responsibility or

522

is that the record company?

523

Vanessa Peters: So I self released

all my records until recently.

524

only just begun releasing with a

record, a small record label out of

525

Dallas called Idol Records , in 2018,

I released my first record with them.

526

They do help a lot with that now, but I

have, so like I, I released a couple of

527

records as a band, my old band was called

Vanessa Petters & Ice Cream on Mondays

528

It's a long story having to do with Italy.

529

I had first, I had released

some records as Vanessa Peters.

530

And then in the interim, I released

three with Ice Cream on Mondays.

531

And then I went back to

just being Vanessa Peters.

532

This is a classic example of

things that can't be fixed.

533

Apparently, um, probably if I was

Tom Petty and Tom Petty and the

534

Heartbreakers, it could be fixed.

535

But I, Vanessa Peters

cannot fix this problem.

536

It's intractable.

537

Those two artists exist

separately, even though.

538

It's me, I wrote it, I own all the

copyrights, there's no record label in

539

the middle, there's no pushback from the

other band, there's nothing, there's no,

540

but I cannot combine them, what's funny

is, One of them, we wrote it with a plus,

541

like the plus sign, Vanessa Peters plus.

542

The other two, we wrote

it with an ampersand.

543

The one with the plus is

on my, all my profiles, my,

544

Spotify and Apple and whatever.

545

The other two, which I'm actually

extremely proud of and which

546

a lot of my early fans like

really love those two records.

547

Nobody knows they exist unless you

548

2007, because they're not on any.

549

Of the, they're on a page called

Vanessa Peters and Ice Cream on

550

Mondays that nobody knows exists

because I don't actively promote

551

that page because that band was,

you know, dissolved 15 years ago.

552

There's no reason for me to promote

it, but it's sad that it's out there

553

and I can't do jack shit about it.

554

And it's one of those things that's

really, it should be the easiest

555

thing in the world to prove.

556

Nope.

557

I own the copyright.

558

Can't do it.

559

Sorry.

560

And when you bring up things like

Tom Petty and Tom Petty and the

561

heartbreakers are on the same page and

they're like, well, you know, that's

562

grandfathered in blah, blah, whatever.

563

So things like that are just, they make

you want to beat your head against a wall.

564

And an AI bot has stolen my name.

565

Jason English (Host): Already.

566

Vanessa Peters: Yeah.

567

This summer I encountered the problem.

568

So I have begun to file for trademark,

but it's like, I mean, where does it end?

569

This is not.

570

What I signed up for, I

signed up to make music,

571

Jason English (Host):

Yeah, you just want to play

572

Vanessa Peters: not to fight robots.

573

Jason English (Host): That was

not on your bingo card when

574

Vanessa Peters: No, definitely not.

575

Jason English (Host): Well, alright.

576

Vanessa Peters: Wild, huh?

577

Jason English (Host): Yeah, that, yeah.

578

Cause in some respects, the technology

advancements has probably enabled a

579

lot of art and music to be distributed

580

Vanessa Peters: Sure.

581

Jason English (Host): To broader audience

and there's more accessibility, but

582

then there's the other side of it.

583

Vanessa Peters: Sure.

584

Unfortunately, it was also distributed

to troll farms in Malaysia or whatever.

585

Jason English (Host): it's true.

586

It's

587

Vanessa Peters: I mean, it's true.

588

It's crazy.

589

I have this one song that came

590

I, I don't like it at all.

591

In fact, if I could remove the, if

I could easily remove the album from

592

Spotify would, I mean, it was my

first record, I didn't know what I

593

was doing, but somehow some weird bot

activity started happening in Jakarta.

594

And, um, a bot was playing

that song constantly.

595

We still haven't figured out why

and like to what nefarious end.

596

But for the longest time it

was in my top 10 of my Spotify.

597

And I was like, I don't

want this song in my top 10.

598

I can't get it out of there without

having to file a takedown, you know?

599

And it's like, I don't, I don't

actually want to take down the record.

600

I just don't want.

601

want, you

602

know, and it's like, what is this

strange, bizarre world we live in?

603

I don't know.

604

Jason English (Host): how

do you make sense of it all?

605

Vanessa Peters: I mean, you

don't, you just try to, I mean,

606

Jason English (Host): For you, is

it I'm going to tour, tour, tour?

607

Or is it, I'm going to put

albums out and, do it that way?

608

Is it the merchandise?

609

Is it festivals like this?

610

How do you prioritize

your, your priorities,

611

Vanessa Peters: used to be

merchandise was part of it.

612

But I've gotten to where I really

don't want to make stuff anymore.

613

Like I make the bare minimum of

vinyl that they will let me print.

614

I mean, because I just, I, I hate.

615

The impact that my unsold things

are going to have in the future.

616

I hate the idea of, CDs and

landfills and whatever else.

617

Also it irritates me that

we are told as artists that

618

Our music isn't worth anything.

619

People don't have to pay me

for my music, but they'll pay

620

me 30 Dollars for a t shirt.

621

What is that?

622

I'm not Lands End.

623

I'm not the gap.

624

You paid the gap 30 for a t shirt.

625

You paid me 30 for a vinyl or don't

do whatever, but like, why should

626

I have to make key chains?To Make a

Living, that's, that's absurd, right?

627

We can all agree that's very silly.

628

I would love it if touring made enough

money to be sensical, but it, it isn't

629

for me anyway, it was going pretty

well prior to COVID, but it cratered

630

pretty hard after that, just because

of, in part because of where I'm

631

located and, uh, a variety of things.

632

We'll see if this, if this record helps.

633

Just kind of launch it back off again.

634

And if it doesn't, it's okay, um, we've,

we've both kind of, I say we both because

635

my husband is my, he's also the producer,

he plays drums in the band as well.

636

Uh, he's the recording engineer.

637

So, you know, we, we, we plan these

records as a team and we've both kind

638

of decided at this point, like we make

them for ourselves and for the little

639

loyal cache of listeners that we have.

640

And then like, if other

people find it, that's great.

641

And that's, that's, that is why I come

to things like 30A because you're likely

642

to be in front of a room full of captive

listeners that maybe weren't there to see

643

you, but might be interested in finding

out more about your music after they go

644

Jason English (Host): people

appreciate the stories behind

645

the songs and the lyrics.

646

And obviously you care, you know, about

the meaning and, , what that entails.

647

So the rest of the year, obviously

the album comes out next month.

648

What, what are your goals

the rest of the year?

649

We

650

Vanessa Peters: We have some touring in

March, in February and March in Europe.

651

And then I would like to come

back, uh, in the summer or the

652

fall for some shows over here.

653

But, life is complicated where, I mean, I,

I have a day job as well, and, it's just

654

kind of a lot of juggling travel in the

summer is expensive and when the planes

655

are oversold and et cetera, et cetera.

656

So we'll see.

657

Jason English (Host): What's your day job?

658

Vanessa Peters: It's, uh, you know.

659

Magic, creating magic

660

Jason English (Host): Like Mary, like Mary

661

Vanessa Peters: Mary Poppins, yeah.

662

I do a lot of, wriggling my nose

and making rooms snap into place,

663

Jason English (Host): Okay,

well that's, that's interesting.

664

Vanessa Peters: world will just

have to wonder what my day job is.

665

Jason English (Host): man.

666

I didn't expect that, but all right.

667

Well, good for you.

668

I love that.

669

I mean, I respect the hustle,

you know, like this is not

670

easy what you're doing from a

671

Vanessa Peters: Oh no, this is full time.

672

And then I also do something else full

time as well, which is kind of crazy.

673

I recognize that, but I feel lucky to be

674

And after, just in general, it's, it's

better to err on the side of gratitude,

675

Jason English (Host): Does music

mean something different to you

676

today than it did when you started?

677

Vanessa Peters: I think I, I both, I both

love it and, am frustrated by it in,

678

in equal measure more than I once was.

679

Probably, I think pr in the past it

was a, it was nothing but potential.

680

The road ahead was paved with

possibilities and now it's, it's

681

become a bit more clear that

682

it will be difficult, um, to.

683

To springboard into , making

a sustainable living in music.

684

Let's put it at this point in my life and

career is probably not going to happen.

685

And that was a little hard to

come to terms with just cause I.

686

Cause I did work so

hard at it for so long,

687

But letting go of that also kind of

frees you to make the records that

688

you want and to, you know, release them

on your own schedule and to sort of

689

you know, like I was saying earlier,

so I'm, I'm working towards that.

690

I'm, I'm working towards sort of

just accepting the fact that I

691

do lead an enormously, privileged

and blessed life, whether or not.

692

my records ever sell another copy, and

as long as some people out there, listen

693

to them and connect with them, then

that, then, then that's enough, you know,

694

Jason English (Host): Well, we appreciate

your music and we're glad that you're

695

doing it and we're excited for the

new album Would you play a song or

696

Vanessa Peters: Sure.

697

Sure.

698

Be happy to.

699

Jason English (Host): Thanks,

700

Vanessa Peters: You're welcome.

701

Thank you.

702

Jason English (Host): Thanks so

much for joining us for another

703

episode of Curious Goldfish.

704

Please follow and subscribe to

the podcast and on social media.

705

Also, tell your music

loving friends about us too.

706

Until next time, stay curious.