Artwork for podcast Box Office Pulp
SAW X Commentary Track
16th March 2024 • Box Office Pulp • Cody Alft, Jamie Lewis, Mike Napier
00:00:00 02:24:15

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With the Oscars behind us, many are taking a second look at the remarkable stories from last year that have been tragically overlooked by the academy. Tonight, Box Office Pulp would like to spotlight one such story, that of a humble engineer who forgot to cherish the little things, until a surprise diagnosis introduced him to a new hobby, a new gal, and a new lease on life. Before he can finish his life's work, though, he must rail against an uncaring medical system and stop the exploitative business practices of a corrupt institution, or else this will be one jigsaw puzzle left unsolved! In their final BOP n' A Movie audio commentary track on the series-- until next year, sat least-- the crew have finally reached Saw X, the John/Amanda reunion America didn't know it wanted. Tobin Bell and Shawnee Smith are back in the playhouse, the script is free to set up absolutely nothing for a sequel, and there's an actual budget this time around, so does the THIRD return of a franchise that doesn't believe in letting itself die finally recapture the gruesome magic fans have been longing for since the original trilogy? If the words "we have a rope" mean anything to you, then you already know the answer!

JOIN HOFFMAN'S EPIC BACON PIRATE NINJA MEME PAGE BY DOWNLOADING HERE.

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Transcripts

Speaker:

How do you do?

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The box office pulp board feels it would be a little unkind to present this podcast without just a word of friendly warning.

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We're about to unfold a cinematic commentary track,

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made by a group of men who sought to create a podcast after their own ravings,

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without reckoning upon God.

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It is one of the strangest tales ever told.

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It deals with three great mysteries of the internet.

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Analysis, observation, and deconstruction.

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I think it will thrill you.

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It may shock you.

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It might even horrify you.

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So if any of you feel you'd not care to subject your nerves to such a strain,

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now's your chance to...

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Well, we've warned you.

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Now, to pause and refresh.

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For your convenience, we have an attractive refreshment stand in the lobby,

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with buttered popcorn, golden good and hot from the popper,

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your favorite candies, wholesome and rich,

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plus delicious Dr. Pepper,

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so bright and bracing, with a tang and tingle unmatched by any other beverage.

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Enjoy an ice-cold Dr. Pepper at our beverage stand right now,

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and then return to fully appreciate this pop and a movie commentary track.

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Enjoy.

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We have a rope.

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Welcome to Box Office Pulp, your one-stop podcast for movies, madness, moxie,

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and tonight, I'm so happy I could cry,

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because we're finally on the last Saw movie,

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until Saw 11 hits theaters later this year.

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But we've reached the end of the road for now,

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and that's something to be proud of.

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And if we make it through, we've survived the entire Saw gauntlet.

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All ten movies.

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And I'm pretty proud of us for doing that.

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Anyways, I'm your host, Cody.

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Joining me today are my co-host, Mike.

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Say hello, Mike.

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So I know we're at the, um, you know, end of the whole series and stuff for this,

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but, um, I just had a suggestion for whenever you do your movie facts, Cody.

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Yes.

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Um, you should call them Jiggies.

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Jiggies.

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Yeah.

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Um, I know, like, we've already done nine of these,

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so it doesn't make any sense now,

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but retroactively, I would like it to count,

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so that way it feels like the audience has been collecting Jiggies this whole time,

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which is a vague Banjo-Kazooie reference.

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So it's kind of like a double.

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Yeah.

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Nope, I got that.

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I got that.

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Unfortunately, it also kind of sounds like I'm presenting a knockoff Oscar.

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Like, here are the Jiggies.

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A Jiggy sounds like an Oscar for jacking off.

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Like, specifically, who jacked off the best.

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I mean, there's a lot of ways you could assign that award.

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It could be, uh...

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Who's jacking off someone else the best?

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Who's jacking off themselves the best?

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Oh, I assume there's multiple categories.

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Sure, sure.

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Longest distance, most viscosity.

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What are we here for?

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Oh, right, Saw.

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Anyways, say hello to my other co-host, Jamie.

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Hello, Jamie.

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When you played Banjo-Kazooie,

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did you also have a visceral hatred for the Jinjos?

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Oh, yes.

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Yeah.

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Oh, my God.

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Fuck those guys.

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Like that, I always think of that tweet that's like,

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if my friends and I had found E.T.

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as kids, we would have beaten them to death with hammers.

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That's how I felt about Jinjos.

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Like, I wanted to rip them apart like they were gummy bears.

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Just go full McCready and the thing on those things.

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Just pull out the flamethrower.

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There's something psychologically deep being exposed here

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that I don't know we should have told the public about.

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But, yeah, fuck those guys.

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They do seem delicious, yeah, now that I think about it.

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You know, I never thought about eating them.

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Just murdering them.

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And neither did I until right now.

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Did you ever watch the Banjo-Kazooie promotional VHS

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that Nintendo sent out that was narrated by John Lovitz?

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That's a classic.

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What?

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No, you're making shit up.

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You're pulling my leg.

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He says Gruntilda.

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I'm looking this up online because I don't believe you.

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It's online.

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Be sure to ask your parents for Banjo-Kazooie,

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the newest hit game for the Nintendo 64.

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From Rare Studios.

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It's so fucking surreal.

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Like, as a child, it was surreal to watch.

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And then they gave him a bag of money.

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OMG, Alice.

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Yeah, no, according to JiggyWiki.com,

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there is, in fact, a Banjo-Kazooie promo video with John Lovitz.

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They sent that in the mail.

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It just showed up at your house.

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Like the ring tape?

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Like, if you just see it seven days later,

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he crawls out of your TV and strangles you?

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That's how I got mine.

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I believe it was gold, too.

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If I remember correctly.

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Wow.

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There is a full rip on YouTube.

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I'm not going to watch this now.

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I'm going to put that away for later.

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But I learned so much talking to you guys.

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It's amazing.

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It's a little late night treat for yourself later.

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Yeah, a little snack.

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You can hear Lovitz promote the password system

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for Banjo-Kazooie 2 that was never implemented.

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Oh.

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Unfortunately, we slightly moved past my segue,

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but I was going to say, speaking of treats,

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Mike, Jamie, both of you have

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mysterious questions.

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Mysterious packages that were mailed to you.

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I think now would be the time

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to open your packages.

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Yay.

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I just want to describe this first.

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I got this mysterious package,

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Jamie, as well.

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It's on the back.

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It says, do not open until

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saw X commentary.

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The visceral fear I felt

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when I read that word.

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Good, good.

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Hearing my girlfriend say,

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you have a package

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from Cody with the same

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delivery as,

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there's a girl in the garden.

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She's still in her fucking blood as well.

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There's someone at the door.

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Oh, I'm not happy.

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I'm not happy.

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Alright.

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I'm going in.

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I'm going in.

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Oh, God.

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Emma marks the spot.

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Oh, Jesus.

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There's a lot to say.

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God damn it.

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Alright.

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Cody, which do you open first?

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The envelope or the package?

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The envelope.

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Okay.

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I'll do it in the assigned order.

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This is what happens

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when you're drunk on Malort, isn't it?

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I was dead sober, Mike.

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Oh, my God.

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I was not chained down by the Malort.

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I can't believe you.

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Okay.

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For the folks at home,

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we have an envelope

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with a little,

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a little Billy

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drawn on it.

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God damn it.

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Ludicrously done, too.

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That's this from the heart, Mike.

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I put time and effort into that.

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Okay.

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Do we open the envelope now?

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Yes.

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It's the same message

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for both of you

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with just your names different,

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to be honest.

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Alright.

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I'm going to open it.

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It is a talking envelope.

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It says,

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play me on it.

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All right.

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I'm going to see if hopefully

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the mic picks this up.

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If not, I'll put it in post.

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Hello, Mike.

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For far too long,

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you've been content

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to sit back and watch

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as your co-host

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has consumed shot

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after shot

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of vile poison

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for the entertainment

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of your listeners.

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Today,

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you will learn to value

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an untainted palette

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inside this

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package

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is a vial

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of Jepson's Malort.

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Before the commentary

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for Saw 10

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can truly begin,

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let's balance

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the scales of entertainment

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by sampling

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this liquid carnage.

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When faced with Malort,

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will you have

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the will to live,

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drink or die, Mike?

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The choice is yours.

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Let the games

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begin.

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Like how it just

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abruptly cuts off.

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It goes for 40 seconds.

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They said 45

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on the package,

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so I thought

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I'd have like

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five more seconds

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and then just stop.

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But luckily,

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I was done talking,

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so it worked out.

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Do I just sit here

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and then listen?

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And then,

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and then,

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and then play back

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my identical tape?

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You're just Jamie.

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It's slightly different.

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It was personalized.

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I was really taken

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with the flashing lights

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as these.

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Mine was already

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in the on position,

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so I think the battery

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ran out.

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No, it's supposed

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to stay on.

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That's how it was

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already on there.

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OK, they claim

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that battery will last

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for years, Jamie.

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It's a fucking vile.

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But you still wrote

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M on.

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You can sit back

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and watch

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as your co-host

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has consumed

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shot after shot

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of vile poison

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for the entertainment

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of your listeners.

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Today,

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you will learn

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to value

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an untainted palette.

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Inside this package

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is a vial

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of Jepson's Malort.

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Before the commentary

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for Sawtech

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can truly begin,

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you must balance

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the scales of entertainment

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by sampling

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the Vial of Jepson's Malort.

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This liquid carnage

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when faced with Mord,

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will you have

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the will to live,

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drink, or die, Jamie?

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The choice is yours.

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Let the game

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begin.

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OK, Mike,

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I think we may have

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missed something,

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so play your card again.

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We do this

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for three hours.

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No, not yours.

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Now we open

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both at the same time.

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Bum, bum, bum.

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Cody, write this down.

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No, no, see,

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oh, no.

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You just have to

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drink the Malort.

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We get Jigsaw on the phone.

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You just have to

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drink the Malort.

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We need to clear

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a few things up.

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The thing that says M.

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The package said

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M marks the spot.

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Drink the M.

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Also, to be kind,

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it's not just

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Jepson's Malort.

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I threw some

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warheads in there.

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Oh, boy.

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You know,

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like a little palette cleanser.

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I'm so glad

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I filled my water bottle

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before doing this.

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It won't help.

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Also,

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I'm,

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I'm very proud of

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this little callback.

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Viewers,

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if you go and listen

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to our previous

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commentary for Spiral,

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there's a moment

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where I finish

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my awful drink

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and I say,

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oh, thank God

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I can move on

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to these

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two shots

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of coconut rum

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and I make a big point

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out of finishing them

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and saying,

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this might come

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in handy later.

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Those are the very same

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vials you're drinking

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out of now.

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I can't get the cap off.

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I'm terrified

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of putting too much

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effort in it

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because if I spill it,

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my office will smell

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like Malort forever.

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I did super glue

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them shut

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so they wouldn't

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leak in the post.

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Cody,

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how are we supposed

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to drink this?

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Is this part of the challenge?

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Yeah.

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You gotta drink it.

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I don't care how you do it.

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I don't care how you do it.

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Just like shotgun it.

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I don't care.

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Get like a little wrench

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or something.

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You can,

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I bet you can do it.

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I believe in you.

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All right.

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I'm going to go get

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tools for this.

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Tell them it's

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Chicago's finest.

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Jamie's still trying

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to open the bottle.

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I haven't heard

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back from her.

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So yes,

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there might be

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some slight editing

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on this.

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There's going to be

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some editing area.

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You're cutting

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everything else around

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and it's just going

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to be us vamping

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until Jamie comes back

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and either says

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I gave up on trying

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to open the Malort

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or my house is

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covered in Malort.

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I was exploded

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like that one time

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Homer opened

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that shook beer.

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Okay.

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I want the folks

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at home to know

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that I had to go

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to my laundry

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room and get

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my hedge clippers

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to cut off

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the top of the

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Malort bottle

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and I got a little

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bit on my hand

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and I feel like

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the innocent

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farmer's daughter

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in the first act

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of a zombie movie

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who's you just

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know is going

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to get a shotgun

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blast to the head

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by the halfway

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point.

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Jamie,

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I'm imagining

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alien when they

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first get the blood

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on the floor.

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It's just like

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your skin is

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styrofoam and

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it's just sinking

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right through.

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Paul Reiser,

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no.

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Is this

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supposed to

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smell like

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something I would

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normally use

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to remove a

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chemical of

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some kind?

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Yeah.

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It does smell

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a lot like

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if you wanted

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to like thin

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lacquer.

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I put a little

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goo gone on the

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outside to get rid

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of the label.

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So maybe you're

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picking up on that.

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But Malort itself

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smells very bad.

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I'm glad you just

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made this as toxic

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as possible.

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It was on the

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outside after I

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super glued it.

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So I didn't get

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inside.

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Don't worry.

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And I watched

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it multiple times.

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There was lots of

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soap involved.

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There should

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not be any goo

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gone left on the

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bottle.

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I think you're

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actually just

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smelling the

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Malort.

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I definitely

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am.

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Interesting.

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Well, folks,

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I didn't make

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an official drink

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for tonight's

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episode.

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So please,

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please just

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oh, I'm drinking

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something delicious

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on my own.

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It's great.

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I can kick him

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back and enjoy

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life.

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All right.

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On the

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count of three,

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Jamie.

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All right.

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One, two,

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three.

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Oh, God.

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That is like

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the worst kind

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of.

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Golf medicine.

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Oh,

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I've had a

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little nip of

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moonshine before.

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It's not

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dissimilar to

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that, but

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moonshine does

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not have that

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burn to it.

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Hey, Mikey,

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I think she

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likes it.

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You do seem

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to be a fan.

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I don't know

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how about

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that.

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Jamie sounds

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excited about it.

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Oh, no, this

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is how I the

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exact same way I

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reacted to that

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new spin.

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Spiced Coca-Cola

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that they have

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now.

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I found out

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about that

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recently.

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Saying spiced

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Coca-Cola just

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makes you sound

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like a very old

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person.

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Like, oh, they've

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started putting

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something new into

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sodas, which I

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want to make

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clear.

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I don't mean

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that in a good

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way.

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Just my reaction

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to new flavors

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is usually like

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an anthropologist

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encountering a new

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tribe.

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Oh, fascinating.

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By the way, that

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spiced Coke is so

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fucking weird.

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I've never had a

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soft drink only

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hit certain parts

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of my palate

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before.

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It's got like

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cinnamon and clove

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in it.

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It's weird.

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I can taste it on

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the front of my

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tongue and the

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back in the center

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of my tongue.

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It just tastes like

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water and a soft

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drink shouldn't be

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a psychedelic

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experience.

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Why is the taste

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of the Malort

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staying only in the

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back of my throat?

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It's weird, right?

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That's where it

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belongs now is it's

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made little caves

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inside of your

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throat and that's

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where the Malort

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lives.

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I do not

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recommend anyone

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at home drink

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for any reason

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really, but

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especially not

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while listening to

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Box Office Pulp,

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but I like the

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idea that anyone

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also drinking

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Malort right now

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is having like a

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4D experience

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or bonding

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right now.

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We should just

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promote this episode

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like one of the

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latter day saws

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like his legacy

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is spreading and

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it's just people

Speaker:

drinking Malort

Speaker:

all across the

Speaker:

country.

Speaker:

Wait, wait, I

Speaker:

just we were

Speaker:

talking about this

Speaker:

before recording.

Speaker:

Is this our

Speaker:

version of the

Speaker:

fucking survey

Speaker:

crystal?

Speaker:

I don't think

Speaker:

they would have

Speaker:

as catchy of a

Speaker:

jingle.

Speaker:

Jefferson's Mort

Speaker:

is still a living

Speaker:

thriving company,

Speaker:

but I don't know

Speaker:

if they have a

Speaker:

jingle.

Speaker:

I imagine it'd be

Speaker:

something more like

Speaker:

a heavier rock

Speaker:

sound.

Speaker:

I'll actually be

Speaker:

right back in a

Speaker:

sec.

Speaker:

I'm already out

Speaker:

of a drink.

Speaker:

I need more

Speaker:

of so

Speaker:

because I don't

Speaker:

want to commentate

Speaker:

with this in the

Speaker:

back of my throat.

Speaker:

Good luck.

Speaker:

It'll hang around

Speaker:

for a while.

Speaker:

Yeah, probably

Speaker:

you'll get used

Speaker:

to it.

Speaker:

Stockholm syndrome.

Speaker:

With a drink.

Speaker:

Yeah, you just

Speaker:

forget it's there.

Speaker:

This is a commentary

Speaker:

that has broke

Speaker:

Mike's straight edge

Speaker:

vow.

Speaker:

It's like you cut

Speaker:

the hair of Samson.

Speaker:

Good.

Speaker:

I haven't met his

Speaker:

weakest.

Speaker:

And we should

Speaker:

probably start the

Speaker:

commentary.

Speaker:

Yeah, let's get

Speaker:

around to it.

Speaker:

All right, folks,

Speaker:

you know the rules

Speaker:

by now.

Speaker:

We're going to

Speaker:

count down from

Speaker:

three and then

Speaker:

start playing.

Speaker:

So X, you just

Speaker:

listen to us normal

Speaker:

if you want, though.

Speaker:

I don't care.

Speaker:

Yeah, do what you

Speaker:

want.

Speaker:

All right.

Speaker:

One.

Speaker:

Two.

Speaker:

Three.

Speaker:

Boom.

Speaker:

Old lines date

Speaker:

logo.

Speaker:

Yay.

Speaker:

It should be.

Speaker:

It's got the

Speaker:

goddamn long, but

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker:

It always makes me

Speaker:

feel like I'm watching

Speaker:

Hellboy, too.

Speaker:

I love it.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Fun memories.

Speaker:

All right, let's

Speaker:

get these jiggies

Speaker:

out of the way.

Speaker:

Directed by Kevin

Speaker:

Greuter.

Speaker:

He's back.

Speaker:

Last time we saw

Speaker:

him, the director

Speaker:

chair was for

Speaker:

Saw 3D back in

Speaker:

2010.

Speaker:

After that, he

Speaker:

directed three

Speaker:

non-Saw related

Speaker:

films.

Speaker:

Jessabelle,

Speaker:

Visions, and

Speaker:

Jackals.

Speaker:

Big on Jays, I

Speaker:

think.

Speaker:

He also edited

Speaker:

Jigsaw.

Speaker:

This entry was

Speaker:

written by Josh

Speaker:

Stahlberg and

Speaker:

Peter Goldfinger

Speaker:

returning from

Speaker:

Spiral.

Speaker:

It's kind of

Speaker:

amazing.

Speaker:

These guys gave

Speaker:

us three very

Speaker:

distinct Saw

Speaker:

movies, and the

Speaker:

phone that finally

Speaker:

caught on and got

Speaker:

the fan base's

Speaker:

approval is their

Speaker:

swan song.

Speaker:

Like, they're not

Speaker:

on the next one.

Speaker:

I don't even know

Speaker:

if they've announced

Speaker:

who the writer for

Speaker:

Saw 11 is yet, but

Speaker:

it's not them.

Speaker:

It was an old

Speaker:

script, so who

Speaker:

knows?

Speaker:

They got so many

Speaker:

pitches in the

Speaker:

off years.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Some of the fan

Speaker:

theories going around

Speaker:

is that Kevin's going

Speaker:

to write, direct, and

Speaker:

edit the next one

Speaker:

all by himself, which

Speaker:

I wouldn't be too

Speaker:

surprised about.

Speaker:

He's been with all

Speaker:

the Saw movies, so

Speaker:

it makes sense he

Speaker:

just write one.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Anyways, our cast,

Speaker:

we've got, as you

Speaker:

can see, Tobin

Speaker:

Bell is back in

Speaker:

like an actual

Speaker:

role instead of

Speaker:

just playing like

Speaker:

cameo roles in a

Speaker:

baseball hat or,

Speaker:

you know, a

Speaker:

detective photo.

Speaker:

That's great.

Speaker:

We also have the

Speaker:

return of Shawnee

Speaker:

Smith.

Speaker:

There's Amanda

Speaker:

Young.

Speaker:

And then, oh no,

Speaker:

I'm so sorry to any

Speaker:

Norwegians who are

Speaker:

listening, but

Speaker:

Sinove Makodi

Speaker:

Lund, I hope I did

Speaker:

that close.

Speaker:

There's like an

Speaker:

accent mark on the

Speaker:

O I'm not sure what

Speaker:

to do with, playing

Speaker:

our villain, Cecilia

Speaker:

Peterson.

Speaker:

Lund has a pretty

Speaker:

small filmography,

Speaker:

only really starring

Speaker:

in three films before

Speaker:

Saw X, but she'd

Speaker:

had very steady

Speaker:

major roles in

Speaker:

television since

Speaker:

2015.

Speaker:

We also have

Speaker:

Stephen Brand as

Speaker:

Parker Sears.

Speaker:

He's a

Speaker:

Mike here will tell

Speaker:

you the most important

Speaker:

thing to know about

Speaker:

Brand is that he

Speaker:

played Memnon in

Speaker:

The Scorpion King.

Speaker:

Although we should

Speaker:

also mention that he

Speaker:

was in Hellraiser

Speaker:

Revelations and was

Speaker:

the big bad boss in

Speaker:

Mayhem.

Speaker:

And most

Speaker:

importantly, above

Speaker:

all else, beyond

Speaker:

Scorpion King, he

Speaker:

was Father Alexander

Speaker:

Anderson in

Speaker:

Hellsing.

Speaker:

So guys got

Speaker:

cred.

Speaker:

Our cinematography

Speaker:

here is by Nick

Speaker:

Matthews.

Speaker:

This was a bit of a

Speaker:

surprise going through

Speaker:

his IMDb.

Speaker:

I didn't see any

Speaker:

previous Saw credits

Speaker:

on his resume.

Speaker:

Most of the time,

Speaker:

the DP is

Speaker:

someone with some

Speaker:

connection to the

Speaker:

franchise, like they've

Speaker:

worked on previous

Speaker:

films, maybe they're a

Speaker:

camera operator and

Speaker:

they were moved up

Speaker:

through the ranks, but

Speaker:

he seems to be a new

Speaker:

face.

Speaker:

Our music is by

Speaker:

Charlie Clouser.

Speaker:

We've got editing by

Speaker:

Kevin Greuter

Speaker:

pulling double duty on

Speaker:

this movie.

Speaker:

Our release date was

Speaker:

September 29th, 2023,

Speaker:

which was a little

Speaker:

bit of an odd move.

Speaker:

Putting it on the

Speaker:

all the way back

Speaker:

before even October

Speaker:

started, but the

Speaker:

movie was a very

Speaker:

big hit.

Speaker:

So what do I know?

Speaker:

It doesn't have to be

Speaker:

October to be Saw.

Speaker:

Blasphemy.

Speaker:

It seems weird, right?

Speaker:

And the next one

Speaker:

started for September

Speaker:

as well.

Speaker:

So they've kind of

Speaker:

just abandoned

Speaker:

October.

Speaker:

If it's back to

Speaker:

school season, it

Speaker:

must be Saw.

Speaker:

If it's Labor Day,

Speaker:

it must be John's

Speaker:

time.

Speaker:

John executes

Speaker:

someone for wearing

Speaker:

white.

Speaker:

Our budget here was

Speaker:

$13 million.

Speaker:

So after the

Speaker:

disappointment of

Speaker:

Spiral, the budget

Speaker:

took a step back

Speaker:

for this entry.

Speaker:

I think that one was

Speaker:

closer to about $20

Speaker:

million.

Speaker:

Although I imagine a

Speaker:

big part of that is

Speaker:

they didn't have to pay

Speaker:

Chris Rock or Samuel

Speaker:

Jackson this time

Speaker:

around.

Speaker:

So you can probably

Speaker:

save a decent amount

Speaker:

of money when you

Speaker:

don't have major

Speaker:

AAA stars.

Speaker:

And for returns,

Speaker:

this movie pulled in

Speaker:

$111.8 million

Speaker:

worldwide.

Speaker:

So really big jump

Speaker:

back into big,

Speaker:

big old profits

Speaker:

considering $13 million

Speaker:

investment.

Speaker:

$112 return.

Speaker:

Not too shabby.

Speaker:

There's our jiggies.

Speaker:

Just in time for

Speaker:

our first trap of the

Speaker:

movie, which I'm of

Speaker:

mixed opinions about.

Speaker:

I'm mixed, but I

Speaker:

ultimately, I'm glad

Speaker:

it's here.

Speaker:

Like on the one hand,

Speaker:

I totally understand

Speaker:

like, oh God, it would

Speaker:

be just conceptually.

Speaker:

It would be so cool

Speaker:

to have a Saw movie

Speaker:

where no Saw thing

Speaker:

happens until like

Speaker:

halfway through the

Speaker:

movie.

Speaker:

But at the same time,

Speaker:

God, it's, there's

Speaker:

something so fascinating

Speaker:

about having a trap

Speaker:

that in addition to,

Speaker:

you know, it's narrative

Speaker:

purpose of just giving

Speaker:

us a little action for

Speaker:

a slow first act also

Speaker:

gives us kind of a look

Speaker:

into John's mind and

Speaker:

his thought process.

Speaker:

That's, that's where

Speaker:

I'm at.

Speaker:

Like,

Speaker:

it's, it's one of those

Speaker:

frustrating, okay, we

Speaker:

need a trap in here to

Speaker:

spice things up.

Speaker:

John, imagine someone

Speaker:

in a trap.

Speaker:

It feels narratively

Speaker:

a little cheap, but

Speaker:

they get out of it by

Speaker:

giving us a little window

Speaker:

into John's thought

Speaker:

process.

Speaker:

You know, we see him

Speaker:

peeking around the

Speaker:

hospital and using that

Speaker:

as inspiration for how

Speaker:

he had tortured this

Speaker:

guy.

Speaker:

It's kind of fascinating

Speaker:

that even in John's

Speaker:

fantasies, the people

Speaker:

fail the traps.

Speaker:

Yes, which says a lot

Speaker:

actually.

Speaker:

Yeah, just, just his

Speaker:

kind of view, pessimistic

Speaker:

view of the world.

Speaker:

No, it doesn't kill

Speaker:

him.

Speaker:

He fails it, but it

Speaker:

doesn't technically kill

Speaker:

him.

Speaker:

It probably sucked his

Speaker:

brains out too.

Speaker:

We just didn't see him

Speaker:

leaking out.

Speaker:

Also, I love his, I'm

Speaker:

sorry.

Speaker:

I think, no, I would

Speaker:

say, yeah, this works

Speaker:

for me because it

Speaker:

justifies itself, even

Speaker:

though if it was just,

Speaker:

oh, here's our way of

Speaker:

getting a trap in, I

Speaker:

probably would have

Speaker:

been fine with it.

Speaker:

But the purview into

Speaker:

like John's brain, the

Speaker:

way he's just in the

Speaker:

room starts putting

Speaker:

together what to use

Speaker:

for a trap.

Speaker:

And his feelings and

Speaker:

kind of like inner

Speaker:

anger, but also the

Speaker:

fact he kind of, it

Speaker:

shows like his morality

Speaker:

whenever the orderly

Speaker:

puts the stuff back

Speaker:

upon getting caught.

Speaker:

And John's like, yeah,

Speaker:

okay, that's good

Speaker:

enough.

Speaker:

I also just love the

Speaker:

almost self parody

Speaker:

moralizing about the

Speaker:

nobility of the

Speaker:

hospital janitor.

Speaker:

Almost like John is

Speaker:

saying, okay, if I were

Speaker:

to turn this into a

Speaker:

jigsaw thing, what

Speaker:

thing would I say as a

Speaker:

first draft?

Speaker:

I should say, when we

Speaker:

were talking about this

Speaker:

movie before recording

Speaker:

the episode, I kind of

Speaker:

made some comments like,

Speaker:

oh, I don't know.

Speaker:

I kind of wish they had

Speaker:

done more of the

Speaker:

stylistic editing of

Speaker:

Bozeman's entries and

Speaker:

then rewatching the film

Speaker:

and I was, oh, I said a

Speaker:

stupid thing.

Speaker:

Because if you watch

Speaker:

that scene, you can

Speaker:

clearly see it's as

Speaker:

stylized as ever, if not

Speaker:

more so than most of

Speaker:

the entries.

Speaker:

I particularly actually

Speaker:

like the camera rig they

Speaker:

have set up where when

Speaker:

the fingers are breaking,

Speaker:

the camera quickly does

Speaker:

like a 90 degree turn to

Speaker:

follow the action of the

Speaker:

finger.

Speaker:

It's very kinetic.

Speaker:

And I don't know what I

Speaker:

was thinking when I

Speaker:

complained about that.

Speaker:

I'd forgotten how much

Speaker:

work they had really done

Speaker:

to film these things in

Speaker:

a style similar to a lot

Speaker:

of the earlier entries.

Speaker:

Yeah, it's nowhere near

Speaker:

as grimy as the previous

Speaker:

entry, but you can tell

Speaker:

they very much

Speaker:

tried in both the

Speaker:

directorial style and

Speaker:

art design, all the

Speaker:

production stuff.

Speaker:

They kind of took

Speaker:

cherry picked little bits

Speaker:

and pieces from every

Speaker:

Saw movie to create a

Speaker:

unified aesthetic for the

Speaker:

series.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

This is the first Saw

Speaker:

movie that looks like

Speaker:

what Saw looks like in

Speaker:

your head.

Speaker:

And one interesting thing

Speaker:

that I caught on the

Speaker:

commentary when they were

Speaker:

discussing filming choices

Speaker:

for the movie was how

Speaker:

they approached flashbacks

Speaker:

because the series has

Speaker:

been littered with

Speaker:

flashbacks, but their

Speaker:

normal approach on those

Speaker:

was to change the color

Speaker:

grading, like they would

Speaker:

put it into a different

Speaker:

color style, maybe make it

Speaker:

a little hazier or

Speaker:

whatever, and you would

Speaker:

get a very quick visual

Speaker:

sense.

Speaker:

Oh, yeah, this is

Speaker:

happening on a different

Speaker:

timeline.

Speaker:

And what they did here

Speaker:

was they decided that

Speaker:

looked too dated because

Speaker:

Saw has been around for

Speaker:

20 plus years.

Speaker:

They had to do some

Speaker:

things to freshen up.

Speaker:

And one of the choices

Speaker:

Reuter made was to

Speaker:

instead do flashbacks

Speaker:

with a much different

Speaker:

lens than the rest of

Speaker:

the film, like use, I

Speaker:

think using like a 16

Speaker:

millimeter lens, you

Speaker:

know, something like

Speaker:

that instead to give it

Speaker:

a very, very different

Speaker:

focal setting.

Speaker:

And you would be able

Speaker:

to tell that way

Speaker:

something maybe not as

Speaker:

obvious if you're not

Speaker:

paying full attention,

Speaker:

but clearly different

Speaker:

from the rest of the

Speaker:

film, which is kind of

Speaker:

an interesting way to go

Speaker:

to make the movie feel

Speaker:

modern while still giving

Speaker:

it a little bit of extra

Speaker:

juice.

Speaker:

Also, I just want to tag

Speaker:

up on that very

Speaker:

thoughtful comment with

Speaker:

is he about to tell

Speaker:

John that he needs

Speaker:

to seek out

Speaker:

commatage?

Speaker:

There's a new

Speaker:

Marvel movie.

Speaker:

So we we find out

Speaker:

that this movie really

Speaker:

was inspired by

Speaker:

part six.

Speaker:

There's a moment where

Speaker:

Jigsaw goes to

Speaker:

William, who is his

Speaker:

health care, well,

Speaker:

insurance guy.

Speaker:

And he's denied coverage

Speaker:

for the treatment that

Speaker:

this character is

Speaker:

currently explaining.

Speaker:

In that movie, they

Speaker:

make it sound like it's

Speaker:

an actual treatment and

Speaker:

the guy's just a jerk by

Speaker:

telling John, no, you

Speaker:

can't have it.

Speaker:

This movie, spoilers, we

Speaker:

find out it's all a scam

Speaker:

in the first place.

Speaker:

It's a neat bit of

Speaker:

continuity, but I'm glad

Speaker:

they don't stress it as

Speaker:

much as they could have

Speaker:

in the deleted scenes for

Speaker:

the film.

Speaker:

They actually have a

Speaker:

whole section where they

Speaker:

have footage from Saw

Speaker:

six just inserted into

Speaker:

this film.

Speaker:

And one, I'm glad they

Speaker:

didn't because I don't

Speaker:

think narratively it

Speaker:

works.

Speaker:

Perfectly, like you can

Speaker:

tell it's a bit of a

Speaker:

retcon.

Speaker:

And two, it looks very,

Speaker:

very silly to see John

Speaker:

from like 2012 all of a

Speaker:

sudden compared to John

Speaker:

from 2023.

Speaker:

A much cheaper looking

Speaker:

movie.

Speaker:

Look, I have a theory.

Speaker:

John has a rare type of

Speaker:

cancer that causes him to

Speaker:

age and de-age back and

Speaker:

forth rapidly.

Speaker:

That's what they call

Speaker:

that.

Speaker:

Spontaneous,

Speaker:

uncontrollable

Speaker:

bungeonitis.

Speaker:

My only question is,

Speaker:

my only regret is that I

Speaker:

have Benjamin

Speaker:

buttonitis.

Speaker:

I love that John still

Speaker:

has Windows 98.

Speaker:

And Hunts and Pecks.

Speaker:

They talked about this

Speaker:

pretty extensively in the

Speaker:

making of feature for the

Speaker:

movie, but one of the big

Speaker:

challenges with this film

Speaker:

is trying to do a John

Speaker:

story that doesn't make

Speaker:

him out to look like a

Speaker:

big old dummy.

Speaker:

Yeah, because the

Speaker:

crux of this is John

Speaker:

falls for a phishing scam.

Speaker:

So inherently it's set up

Speaker:

as John is being fooled

Speaker:

and taken advantage of,

Speaker:

but he is also, as the

Speaker:

rest of the series would

Speaker:

portray, like one of the

Speaker:

world's most brilliant men

Speaker:

and like raised tacticians

Speaker:

and he knows everything

Speaker:

about you, even if you

Speaker:

don't kind of guys.

Speaker:

So it's real hard to hit

Speaker:

that balance right.

Speaker:

And they mostly pull it

Speaker:

off.

Speaker:

And I think Tobin was

Speaker:

pretty instrumental in

Speaker:

that because he insisted

Speaker:

like, hey, I don't want

Speaker:

my guy to look like a

Speaker:

dummy.

Speaker:

I, you know, I love this

Speaker:

character and I really

Speaker:

don't want him to come

Speaker:

off as cheap just so we

Speaker:

can get this plot in

Speaker:

motion.

Speaker:

So I think you can tell

Speaker:

throughout this movie,

Speaker:

they go the extra effort

Speaker:

to show that, you know,

Speaker:

they're applying to his

Speaker:

emotions to really trick

Speaker:

him into this stuff.

Speaker:

And they take their time

Speaker:

getting to the point where

Speaker:

he sends the money, goes

Speaker:

to Mexico.

Speaker:

They don't rush through

Speaker:

it all in like a five

Speaker:

minute montage at the

Speaker:

very start of the film

Speaker:

so they can get to the

Speaker:

blood.

Speaker:

And they really show how

Speaker:

hopeless he is.

Speaker:

And bad off John is

Speaker:

prior to this.

Speaker:

So he's very susceptible.

Speaker:

I think that adds also to

Speaker:

his anger whenever he

Speaker:

discovers it's a ruse

Speaker:

too, is the fact that

Speaker:

to him, it's there's

Speaker:

also a bit of, but I'm

Speaker:

fucking jigsaw.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

One thing I want to say

Speaker:

it's fucking hilarious to

Speaker:

me that John Kramer

Speaker:

sends all of his emails

Speaker:

and messages with

Speaker:

ellipses at the end.

Speaker:

Like, of course he

Speaker:

would.

Speaker:

I'm very interested.

Speaker:

Were you saying

Speaker:

anything, John?

Speaker:

No, that was the end

Speaker:

of the message.

Speaker:

Oh, that's a there's

Speaker:

a particular moment in

Speaker:

the deleted scenes

Speaker:

where you see John

Speaker:

kind of point out the

Speaker:

irony that of all the

Speaker:

people in the world

Speaker:

to be an old man

Speaker:

conned by a scheme.

Speaker:

It's me, jigsaw.

Speaker:

Well, I think the timing

Speaker:

on this works pretty well

Speaker:

to like it feels topical

Speaker:

without being overbearing

Speaker:

like this is going to

Speaker:

work in a few years.

Speaker:

But I think it hits

Speaker:

particularly well right

Speaker:

now.

Speaker:

It just just due to the

Speaker:

rise of kind of fishing

Speaker:

schemes that are dependent

Speaker:

on getting people kind of

Speaker:

emotionally invested in

Speaker:

this game.

Speaker:

Like during COVID, a lot

Speaker:

of people were just stuck

Speaker:

at home.

Speaker:

I think there was a

Speaker:

desperation for human

Speaker:

contact.

Speaker:

And you know what?

Speaker:

There was a John Oliver

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segment yesterday on last

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week tonight.

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Just talking about how

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this how many people fell

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down that rabbit hole.

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You know, you get a wrong

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message.

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They start talking to you

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all of a sudden.

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They seem nice.

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You're lonely.

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And then they start talking to you.

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And then they start talking to you.

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And then they start talking to you.

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And then they start talking to you.

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And then they set you up to

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start investing in a fake

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company.

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And before you know it, oh,

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no, I've lost three hundred

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thousand dollars.

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So we're in that phase where,

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you know, it's happening all

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the time.

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A lot of older folks are kind

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of desperate for that

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connection.

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And it makes sense for the

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audience why John would fall

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for something like this,

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because we probably have a

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relative who might have done

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something stupid in the same

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way.

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And it's also another thing

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where the.

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Where the time period it

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takes place in really helps

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them there.

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Because this is still pre

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Nigerian Prince Internet

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where everyone isn't

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even with even though you can

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Google somebody in two thousand

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two, it's not the same as

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trying to find out if

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something's a scam now.

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Like there was so resources

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were so significantly smaller

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back then.

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Very true.

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Plus, I wish they'd used the

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new term for it, like pig

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butchering would have been

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thematically such a better fit

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than just fishing.

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Although we do have that fun

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deleted scene where John starts

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explaining, like you went

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fishing over the pH.

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I enjoy it because in the

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making of feature ads, they go

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into like we explain the

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concept to Tobin Bell and he

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went on that rant in real time

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like he just made up that

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dialogue.

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Oh, God, nobody get him a DVD

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of Catfish the series.

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I love the idea of someone

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explaining to Tobin Bell like

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catfishing and him just like

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immediately getting the concept

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and starting to riff on it as

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jigsaw like, oh, wait, I can

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work with this.

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Give me a second.

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He can riff as jigsaw.

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We're in yellow

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tinted country.

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And this is one of the things I

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was kind of bitching about where

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it's it's a little old hat to

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say, oh, we're in Mexico.

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All of a sudden, it's got to be

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very warm tones.

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But at a certain point, you have

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to just give in that it's

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cinematic shorthand at this

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point.

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Yeah.

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Like, it's just a short

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cut, you know, which I

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true kind of.

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I mean, it'd be weird if they

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went something like if this was

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bright blue or something,

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everyone be scratching their

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heads like, well, it doesn't

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feel like they went to Mexico.

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Yeah.

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Then you would have thought,

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are we in Norway?

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I guess they looked at other

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spots beside Mexico to film a

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movie like they're thinking

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like, oh, we could go to like

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Bulgaria or some other cheaper

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country.

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And luckily, it all worked

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out.

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They actually filmed in Mexico.

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Imagine the other world where

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this was all shot in the

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European castle that

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Charles Band owns.

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All right.

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That'd been kind of fun,

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though.

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Just saw X on the set of

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Castle Freak.

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Castle Saw.

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Also, I like how John gets to

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be in Breaking Bad for 15

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seconds.

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It's definitely like doing the

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walk in thing from Seven

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Psychopaths.

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Shoot me.

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I think what's fascinating,

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though, about stuff like this

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is just seeing how helpless

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and pathetic John actually

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is.

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He's never been an action

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hero, you know, even in two

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when he technically has all the

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cards, he still gets his

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fingers broken by Matthews and

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his face beat in like he's

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going to take a licking.

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He really can't overpower you.

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He kind of relies on help from

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his assistants and his

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persuasion to get all of his

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deeds done and only find

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himself in situations where he

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is the only one who could

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possibly be in control.

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Yeah, he has to manufacture

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everything.

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He has to make himself being

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powerful.

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And I like how they really

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highlight that with this by

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and I think it would have been

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easy in doing like a personal

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like straight John story to

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still try to make him kind of

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cool.

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Like a cool villain, but

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he's just shaking and kind of

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pathetic.

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Well, this one, this one.

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Boy, it kind of goes full

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circle from where we started

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with, where in Saw 1, we

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know almost nothing about the

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guy.

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He pops up off the floor and

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he's just kind of terrifying,

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right?

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Because we don't know anything

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about him, but he managed to do

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this whole thing while laying in

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the room with you.

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He has that thing on his face.

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Yeah, this one goes the other

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way around where we see him for

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two hours as a frail, dying old

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man who is just kind of sad

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about things.

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So it's very weird that we've

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gone 10 movies in and our

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monster is now more sympathetic

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than ever.

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And we see so much of his side

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where we don't.

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We don't hate him the way we

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might have after several of the

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other entries.

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I don't know.

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It's always been a weird thing

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where people have revered John,

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but you can clearly tell he's

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doing evil things.

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Yeah, I think they actually do a

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pretty good job in this and

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balancing of of really having it

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called out like John, you are

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being a hypocrite and doing evil

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things.

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Yeah, they finally have some

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people that get to kind of lay

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into him and hey, you don't have

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the moral high ground here.

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I wish those amounted to a little

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more.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Some of them ended up on the

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cutting room floor, but it's

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nice to get those moments.

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Obviously, it didn't take

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because this is like saw 1.5.

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So he would double down on

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everything when he gets back to

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the United States.

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I know one thing I know that's

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frustrated you, especially in

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the later movies, is those

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little added technicalities to

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the saw traps like, oh, you have

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to cut your own head off and

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also solve this math problem.

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But you know, are always just

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very trite ways of making sure

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that the audience still gets blood

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and guts at the end of the trap.

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I love how this is the first

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movie where those are there for

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a very clear narrative purpose.

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Like these are, it's made very

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clear to the audience.

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These are not John's regular

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traps.

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These are traps that are intended

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to not be completed.

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It's it still drives me kind of

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batty where he is like, there's

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moments where he can tell he is

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sad.

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When someone is dying or he

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kind of wants them to get

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through it, but he still put

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them in a situation where he's

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like, well, not only do you have

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to chop your leg off, you have

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to suck out the bone marrow from

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the severed leg and then you

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have to drop it into this vat.

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And if you don't do it within

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30 seconds, you will die while

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swearing this isn't punishment

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or revenge, right?

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Yeah, it's John.

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You can say that all you want.

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It kind of feels like revenge.

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Yeah, more or less having Amanda

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calling him on his bullshit.

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Which is fascinating.

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When you consider like her

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eventual arc, like, oh, John

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really did fuck her up, like

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mentally having her be actually

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sympathetic and going, this is

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not good.

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Like this is none of this is

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OK.

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There's got to we'll get into

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this later whenever she becomes

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part of the movie, but just

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spending time with an Amanda

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who at this point has probably

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killed Adam.

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But have it hasn't killed.

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Matthews.

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Yeah, Matthews.

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I almost called him Hoffman.

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I was like, no, there are other

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cops.

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There's a lot of cops.

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A lot of them.

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So this is, I would say, a very

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good mark of quality of the film

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where I enjoy this movie, even

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though I think this entire setup

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is very, very obnoxious.

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The whole scam is one thing, but

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to actually have a movie that's

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a base set up in Mexico, multiple

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paid actors, a as we'll find out

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later, actual surgical equipment

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is there, even though they don't

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use it.

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They have like an actual

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radiation machine in here.

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It's it's like they really went

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super, super far all to scan this

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guy out of like two hundred

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thousand bucks.

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Like there's got to be easier

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ways they could have just robbed

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him when they like had him in the

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taxi cab.

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Well, that's something I think

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that, you know, in my opinion,

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kind of elevates things.

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I think if the scam were less

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elaborate.

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It would just be John going up

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against some assholes.

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I think the theatricality raises

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Cecilia to.

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To John's level, like this is

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somebody who is going to an

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unnecessary degree to rob and

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humiliate these people.

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Like I think I think the unnecessary

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quality of it is what sells it.

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Yeah, they're equally intricate.

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Also, honestly, that's how intricate

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these real scams actually are.

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I have some doubts to get to the

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point of like relocating base for

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every person they scam.

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It feels like that really does.

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That is actually usually how it

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goes.

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I mean, hell, you can actually go

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losing so much on the set design.

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Mike, it's not efficient.

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You can actually go as far with

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like the I'm always fascinated by

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the people who go through the

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go forward with the Nigerian print

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scam to see exactly how far it will

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go.

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And you end up standing in a vault

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in another country somewhere.

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And they just.

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Pretty much just eventually just

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rob you because they are they're

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out of steps.

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Like you were supposed to give up

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at some point.

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I feel not swayed.

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I mean, obviously people do go to

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extreme lengths when they're trying

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to take money from other folks.

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The the larger point for me, though,

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is.

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I don't buy into the scam as being

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realistic in any way.

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It maybe fits into the saw universe

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where things are very large and

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theatrical, but it doesn't matter.

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I still enjoy the film, which I think

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is a pretty big mark on the quality

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of it, where the dramatics of it

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work so strong.

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I don't care that it's a little goofy

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getting to this point.

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Well, it helps that this is the first

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saw movie with an actual emotional

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core since three.

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That definitely helps.

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Yeah, I buy into the story they're

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telling here.

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Not not the plot.

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I guess, but like the actual

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dramatics and emotions here way more

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than pretty much any of the other

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saws.

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They still attempted them in the

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other saw movies, but it never

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landed for me.

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It always felt like it was just

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feather window dressing.

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This works.

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This feels like it's an actual movie.

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Yeah, this feels honestly like the

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first full on 100 percent narrative

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driven saw movie since the first one.

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Because even two and three, while

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still being heavily narrative driven,

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still had a lot of sauce.

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Stuff going on.

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Yeah, and a lot of the saw entries as

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we've gone through were there to be a

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rung on a ladder.

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They were leading you to the next step

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to the next step to the next step.

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And there was an eventual.

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Ending to the ladder, but it didn't

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feel like they'd kind of figured that

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out when they started building it.

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Yeah, this was nice.

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It ends and it's like, sure, there's

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other avenues where they could go.

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If you wanted to, you could go right

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back into the other saw movies and it

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fits nice enough.

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But this feels like it's designed to

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be its own.

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Separate thing.

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It tells a fairly complete story.

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It's like an actual movie instead of

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just a chapter.

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This is Logan for Jigsaw.

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Carlos.

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So I adore how on the nose the subplot

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is.

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Pool.

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This will come in handy later.

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Hmm.

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Also, you know, John,

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it's time because if he was still

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like healthy, he would have totally

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learned Spanish before traveling to

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Mexico.

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That kind of asshole.

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John would have actually been correcting

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them on their pronunciation.

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There's probably a whole deleted scene

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about that where he's getting down to

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somebody because their grammar shit.

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I feel like it was probably Tobin

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Bell's idea to have John specifically

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constantly asking questions.

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Yeah.

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Like really wanting specifics of

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everything and the fact they actually

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have answers for everything he's

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asking.

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Like it shows that he's still like

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cautious, but they keep actually

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following through with with what he's

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looking for.

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Yeah.

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The deleted scenes contain a whole

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lot of medical jargon.

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So in an earlier cut of this movie,

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we were going to get a lot of

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information on what exactly this

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procedure was, which, by the way,

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we've alluded to it a couple of times.

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But.

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The Blu-ray release of Saw X.

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Has a deleted scenes reel.

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There's, yeah, a good number of deleted

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scenes.

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There's a director's commentary.

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There's selected scenes with extra

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director's commentary.

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There's like an hour and a half long

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making of feature.

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It's it's a surprisingly stacked

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release.

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What is this?

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2011?

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I couldn't believe it.

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One thing to go back to your point,

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Mike.

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About Kramer's observations.

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I liked in this moment.

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And they've helped him out.

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This isn't just a Kramer thing,

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but he's looking around and he's

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picking out these details and the

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camera takes the time to show him

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noticing and absorbing his

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surroundings.

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Yeah.

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So they go that extra mile to make

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him look perceptive and get the

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audience to understand that, you

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know, he's not just along for the

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ride.

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This is a guy who's still trying to

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ingest the world around him.

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Even when it's too late now to have

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second thoughts because he's already

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strapped into the table and they're

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cutting him open.

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Theoretically.

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It's something they tried at the end

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of Jigsaw, and I don't think it came

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across as well because the timing was

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bad.

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You know, we're like the laser beams

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are scorching the ceiling and you

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realize one second before the movie

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reveals that the lasers were fake.

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This one lets this kind of sit for a

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moment or two before John realizes

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he's been had.

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So it's it's.

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Feels more earned.

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It feels like better.

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Filmmaking that they let those things

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kind of digest with the audience.

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Well, it's so lovely to be in a saw

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movie that has the confidence to let

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stuff like that breathe.

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If this were made a decade ago,

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everybody would be in the warehouse

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by now.

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Yeah, we are.

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We're almost 30 minutes in 27,

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almost 28 minutes in.

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John saw a couple minutes before he

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figures out he's been scammed.

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There's still an hour and a half of

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movie left.

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They let this one be long.

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They let this one have time to breathe

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and develop.

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Thank God.

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And it works so much better than

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than if they had made it even shorter

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film.

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When was the last time we had a two

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hour long saw film?

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Saw seven, I think.

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That was surprisingly long.

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Yeah.

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And I know I think before that it was

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saw three, which was a little bit

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over two hours.

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Actually, saw 3D is only an hour and

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31 minutes.

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It just feels like it's two hours long.

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That's a story.

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I think most of them are right around

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that 90 minute mark.

Speaker:

Kevin Greider was was talking like

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this was a unique challenge for him

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because it's the only time he's had

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too much footage.

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Normally, he's worried about not

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making a song movie long enough to

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feel like a proper movie.

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This one, he's like putting it

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together and he had like a three

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hour long cut.

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He's like, something's gone wrong.

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I don't know what to do.

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I have too much.

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Now, the original cut of the

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getting to know you scene in the

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warehouse later on is about 20

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minutes.

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Yeah.

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Once again, what a what a weird

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development considering the very first

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saw film.

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They literally had to use every scrap

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of film they had.

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They had like steel footage just to

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make the movie long enough.

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And this one is like, oh, my God,

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fuck.

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We have like two extra hours of

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footage we could just throw out.

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And it's nice that whatever weird

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edict there was like, no, it has to

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be an hour and a half long.

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Nothing over seems to have

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finally lifted and it paid off.

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Imagine that.

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Oh,

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I don't know if the producers are

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a little more hands off on this

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entry because the previous two

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hadn't quite connected.

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But in the making of feature, you

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don't hear as much of them saying,

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hey, these are things we were

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trying to do or change or control.

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It felt a little bit more like

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they let Greuter kind of do his

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thing.

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We had a script that had been

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around for a while, too.

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So they just went back to an idea

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they thought was good.

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Yeah.

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They kind of trusted Tobin Bell to

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carry the movie, which all were

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smart choices.

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They all they all went the right

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direction.

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Yeah.

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This feels very.

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From what we know of the producers

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so far.

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I say this with no offense, but

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very anti them.

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Yeah.

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Also, God, I could watch an entire

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movie of just this

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montage.

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Loving a life.

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Jigsaw.

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The product sponsorship.

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I never thought we'd see like a

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official like booze sponsor of a

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movie of a saw movie.

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So

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that joke will make no sense by the

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time we get this edited.

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Now, people are going to forget

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about it already.

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The Internet may discover it again.

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It'd be nice.

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So as we're talking about the music,

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though, I just want to go into how

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unique the score is compared to

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Charlie Clouser's other entries.

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Like it's the least industrial of

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all of them, which is the hallmark

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of his saw music.

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Obviously, he hasn't done that

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entirely.

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He's tried to get away from it.

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I think in some of the later

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entries, especially the spinoff

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entries.

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But if you pop on the DVD

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and just like let it sit on the

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opening menu, it feels like you're

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listening to a classic score from

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like a like a really dark thriller

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or a monster movie.

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It doesn't feel like

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a jigsaw music.

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It's also weird to have a saw

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movie where the DVD credit

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menu isn't just the sounds

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of like metal scraping against

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some.

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But the one I have is like, yeah,

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like bad fluorescent lights like

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flickering in and out and then like

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a gurney being pushed down a

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hallway.

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It sounds like a Halloween

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soundtrack, you know, like put

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this on for your haunted house.

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That's one of the things I came

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away really loving about this

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movie is.

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It has.

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The the aesthetic

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darkness that you want from a saw

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movie, but it's not gross

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and grimy

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in the way that most of them

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are. This isn't.

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A dirty movie

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visually.

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There's a weird like a veneer

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of almost like classic Hollywood

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class to this.

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It fits the fact we're following

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John like it's

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a very,

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very clean, like classical

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version of the normal

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saw score.

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There is such a rush.

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They knocked over everything, but left the

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monitors on.

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These guys forgot their DVD.

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That's like 20 bucks.

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They'll never get back.

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This is what I'm talking about.

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They're not efficient scammers.

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It's a VHS.

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He presses play and it's

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the video of that rock star from

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the saw to DVD.

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Why did that guy think his band

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mates were going to be cool

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about it?

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So there we go.

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Kind of a classic saw thing where you have a character

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figuring out what's going on

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by flashing back to the past.

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Only this time they didn't save it for

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the very end of the movie. We have this flashback

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happening to John

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30 minutes in kind of signaling

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the end of act one.

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We get a lot of flashbacks

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to things earlier in the movie and

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normal saw fashion. And I

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love that. Like it happens multiple times.

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We get a montage

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of Amanda just doing Amanda

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stuff at one point. It's delightful.

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Amanda revealing herself to be

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Amanda over and over.

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Over and over again.

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So here we get

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kind of a nice twist on

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jigsaw music where it's more

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percussive. It sounds

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I can tell you they're giving John like scary

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monster movie music now.

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Which I dig.

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Oh yeah. Make him a little bit

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more of a movie monster.

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I mean we're 10 and I think it's okay.

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We can just admit he's like an iconic character

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in horror cinema. Just treat him like one.

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So John must have been so happy.

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A market with many masks.

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His favorite thing. So many choices.

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So I'm sorry but every time

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we cut to the cabbie I just think

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Dopinder from Deadpool.

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I just keep thinking we're going to cut

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inside it and it's just going to be Dopinder.

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So we are

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34 minutes

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into the movie and outside

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of that one fantasy sequence

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this is the first

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saw thing that happened.

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Right? It's pretty weird.

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And it's a gnarly one too.

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We got pipe bombs. We got like

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Edward Fortyhands but with knives.

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I'm fascinated by

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this scene in

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particular because this is

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the most

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in my opinion the most

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super villain John has

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ever been in the series. This is just

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some death

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stroke shit.

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I'm going to improvise

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a saw trap just to

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interrogate this dude.

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And what's great is

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there's no

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real

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reason for him to still do this

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in a saw style. But that's just

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how John operates. So he

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just the fact he

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improvises a full

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saw plot instead of just

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kidnapping the guy and interrogating him.

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It's fun he knows how to make

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pipe bombs. I like that fact.

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Not only is he a civil engineer but he knows how

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the anarchist's curveball works.

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And graft them into somebody.

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Also this is a trap that is so

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like most of the traps

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in this movie so creatively

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gnarly.

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I feel like a common

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problem with saw traps is

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the

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setup is

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very complicated but the

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actual violence is

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fairly simple.

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Eyeball go boom.

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Teeth get pulled out. Things like that.

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There is something so

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squeaky and wrong

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about somebody just

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digging things out of

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their wrists.

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Yeah we really are back in

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the simplicity of

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the early saws more than

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whatever some

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of the traps turned into.

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Should I have

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sent you guys as Malort wrapped in like 18

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layers of duct tape to kind of simulate

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having these duct tape hands?

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Like play the message. I don't have fingers

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John. It's hard to push the play button.

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I like how he still went out and bought

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a micro cassette tape tape

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recorder. He just carries them with him

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just in case he has ideas. I don't know.

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John shower thoughts.

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I want it. Yeah. A whole deleted scene where he's

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just in Target or something like just walking around Kmart

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like this could come in handy.

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I need to build a new Billy.

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I want to get

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a cross made out of kryptonite

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so that I can kill vampires

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and Superman.

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Or vampire Superman.

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These have been

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Deep Thoughts with John

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Kramer.

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I know

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we're not there. We're not there for a while. Can we just

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appreciate the fact that he told

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Amanda specifically bring

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Billy.

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I'm so fascinated

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that like a list was

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made. Bring my instruments

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of hell.

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Can you get Billy through customs?

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Did you ever hear the story

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of like Jason Segel?

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When he was making the Muppets, he had

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his version of himself as a Muppet in his

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carry-on luggage and like

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TSA opened the box and like what's in here

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and it's just him as a terrifying Muppet staring back

Speaker:

and they basically just closed the lid like

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we don't want to know.

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Just imagine that's what's going on with Billy.

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Like some poor guy is just going to be like what the

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fuck? Uh, all right.

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This one's kind of interesting to me because of the choices

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John made for this guy's trap. Like

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one, this guy gets three whole minutes. It feels like he has

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way more time than most other folks.

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Two, he has to cut himself

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up pretty bad and lose a lot of blood and skin.

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But most of John's

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traps are designed to like permanently maim you.

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Like, oh, cut off a leg.

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Break all of your fingers. Gouge out an eye.

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Uh, stab this dead

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guy and then, oh, he's alive.

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This one is fairly

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in regards to Jigsaw

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lenient.

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It's almost like he wants him to live so he can get information

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and everybody else he wants to die.

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Well, he still opens the

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trap by saying, I already told you everything. I gave you all

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the people. And I think the editing

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of the deleted scenes kind of shows like he'd

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already drilled this guy for information before

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putting him in the trap. Yeah, he interrogates him

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in the chair and then does

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the game afterwards. This is still

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like, I need to put you through a lesson.

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You gotta learn.

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I really like how the

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design for all the traps are really just based

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on what

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John's gone through, what

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they represent. Like, just having to

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perform surgery in really specific

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ways or go through medical

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procedures. Yeah, well, it's just

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John being angry. Yeah, well, this

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one calls out, you cut the cancer out, the thing they couldn't

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do to him. So he's going to make this guy

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do it to himself.

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You know, all the traps tie

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pretty nicely, I think, to the predicament

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that's going on.

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I mean, honestly,

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it'd be weird if we had a Saw where

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it wasn't themed. I think they should have leaned into

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it more in all the other movies.

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But this

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one, what? We've got technically

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that self-surgery with the pipe bombs.

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We have the surgery Saw

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where a character has to cut their leg off with an old

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school surgery Saw.

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We've got the radiation

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machine. What else am I

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missing? I feel like most of them are actually

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involving surgical tools or surgery

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things. Yeah, the brain surgery.

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Yeah, the brain. They're all very on

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brand, which I appreciate.

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The only other way

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that would have been cool is all the traps were super

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Mexico-themed, like the one where the guy does the brain

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surgery and then the, like,

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Aztec mask clamps on him at the end.

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That was awesome. I wish John did a little bit

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more of that. Just a little extra flair

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for no reason whatsoever. Like, well, when in Mexico.

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The only way to survive

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this trap is to cut off your own heart.

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Yeah. He goes

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to New York City and does traps, and one of them

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is like, oh, you'll be encased in the Statue of

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Liberty for all time.

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You'll drown in pizza dough.

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Isn't it kind of surprising?

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We never found a reason to do Saw

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spinoffs that are just themed for location.

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Like, he goes to

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Washington, D.C. to fight politicians, and

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all the traps are like, you get

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crushed or impaled by the Washington

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Monument in miniature. House of Jigsaw.

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House of Jigsaw, yeah.

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Jigsaw goes Hawaiian.

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That would also be very fun.

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So many pineapples.

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So many pineapples. Oh, no.

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I did just rewatch Little Nicky, so it'd be

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that situation. They're just shoving pineapples up your ass.

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Yeah.

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God. Before we get too far away

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from it, I just want to

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talk about the use of color

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in this sequence,

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which I thought was really fascinating.

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In

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the entire

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Amanda capturing victims

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sequence, each of

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these victims has their own

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theme of color. Yes.

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Other scenes designed around, which is a

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color that comes up

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later in the main

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warehouse.

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All of this inspired by Giallo.

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They could not stop saying

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Giallo when they were in the making of

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Featurettes. This is very Giallo.

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The number one thing they were saying over and over, they were just

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such big fans of Giallo, they just

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wanted to do their own focus

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spin on it for once. Which makes a lot of sense

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when you think about, okay, this was originally supposed

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to be European.

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God, we've been chasing

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90s neo-noir

Speaker:

this entire series. Seeing this

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go into the same

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kind of territory that

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Juan would be doing

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not too long before

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with Malignant. That's

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really fresh. Because it

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still kind of comes from the same

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basic place, it doesn't feel out of place

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for a Saw movie.

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It's an Ouroboros. We always come back around

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Giallo.

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I would say to

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that point and direction,

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I've been, I would say

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fairly hard on Greider's

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Saw movies, because

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I haven't enjoyed most of the ones he's

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been the director on, or really heavily involved with.

Speaker:

Well, maybe that's not fair.

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He's been heavily involved with all of them.

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But the ones where he's the creative controller.

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And then you get to this one,

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which is really good. And it makes me

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wonder, okay, have I just not been familiar

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with your game the whole time? Because if you listen

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to all of his commentary,

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if you listen to him provide

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the specific scene commentary,

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he's very frank,

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he's insightful, he's not full of

Speaker:

himself when he's talking about this stuff, he's not being

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pretentious, he's not saying, oh, I've made a

Speaker:

masterpiece, or he's not dismissive

Speaker:

of the material, or, oh, we're just making a Saw movie.

Speaker:

He has an attitude

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towards the whole thing that I really appreciate and admire.

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And when you

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start paying attention to some of those technical details

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he's sprinkled throughout the film,

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you know, they're very good.

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Like, I'm surprised. Like, there's a lot

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more craft going on than I would have expected

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considering Saw VII.

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And it makes you wonder how much of this was stuff out of his

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control the entire time, where it was

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time crackdowns, budget crackdowns,

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studio,

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video interference, bad scripts.

Speaker:

When he's got all the time to do

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this stuff the way he wants to,

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I'm assuming you get a movie like this,

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and when outside forces kick him around

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you get Saw VII.

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Yeah, exactly. I mean, literally, he

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just didn't even try

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with Saw VII. And I think we know why

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he didn't try with Saw VII.

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That's the thing that still bothers me.

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I haven't been able to figure out how they drew him back in.

Speaker:

Because after that treatment, as soon as my contract

Speaker:

is done, I've probably been like, nah, fuck you guys.

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I don't know if it's just,

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you know, well-paying work.

Speaker:

That's why the producers had to have just not had the same

Speaker:

level of power. And the fact that

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this was like, hey, you know how you didn't have time

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or money at all to

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make something on the last ones

Speaker:

you directed? Here's

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actually making a movie.

Speaker:

You get to actually make a movie this time.

Speaker:

But he's not even back for

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Spiral and

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Jigsaw. Like, Spiral,

Speaker:

they didn't think he was going to be back at all because

Speaker:

of scheduling conflicts, but they got him towards the end

Speaker:

of the movie to help with the edit. And I think he was going to be back.

Speaker:

He was also an executive producer.

Speaker:

And then Jigsaw, they got him back for

Speaker:

that as well, I think. Like, he's

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pretty much gotten a part in

Speaker:

all of the movies. So it's just

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surprising to me, after the treatment of him

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on Seven, you'd almost think he'd be gone, but

Speaker:

he's right back in the fold.

Speaker:

I would love to know more about that, but I

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suppose it's too much gossip stuff to ever come out to the

Speaker:

public.

Speaker:

I don't know. I'm too bitter. If it were me, I would have

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just told Lionsgate to fuck off forever, and I never would have

Speaker:

been another Saw.

Speaker:

I'm making my own horror

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franchise.

Speaker:

Well, you did try. I mean, there's

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Jackals, Jezebel, whatever the other one

Speaker:

was, Visions.

Speaker:

I've only seen

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Jackals, which I

Speaker:

didn't love,

Speaker:

to be honest.

Speaker:

He at least went out and cut his teeth as a filmmaker

Speaker:

more. Yeah.

Speaker:

He's worked on other stuff, too.

Speaker:

Like, he's got a couple different credits

Speaker:

in Barbarian.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So I don't know what level. I think he

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consulted on some of the ideas for that. I think he

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worked on some of the editing for that.

Speaker:

So he's definitely been around in other

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movies and pictures. It's not like

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he can only find work in Saw.

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I do wonder

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at least as far

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as this project goes, if the script

Speaker:

played some part in that.

Speaker:

I know it would excite me

Speaker:

just looking at stuff like this on

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the page and going, oh, well,

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there will be sequences in this movie.

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I don't think

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we've seen actual

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cat and mouse in a Saw movie

Speaker:

since, what, the first one?

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It's kind of been a while.

Speaker:

They've tried doing some stuff where

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they're outside, too, which

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hasn't amounted to much, and it works

Speaker:

much better here than

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in something like Jigsaw.

Speaker:

Speaking of Giallo, this

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fucking sequence is Giallo as fuck.

Speaker:

I love

Speaker:

the inside baseball when they're talking about the filming of that

Speaker:

last little segment where, you know,

Speaker:

the pig head walks past the glass

Speaker:

and

Speaker:

Johnny Smith really wanted

Speaker:

to do that scene herself, and they couldn't let her

Speaker:

because apparently that ledge the person was

Speaker:

walking on was, like, four inches wide.

Speaker:

It's like, no, we really can't afford

Speaker:

to have one of our lead actresses, like, accidentally

Speaker:

fall off a building or, like, through glass.

Speaker:

We'll just have a stunt person do it. You're going to be wearing a mask,

Speaker:

so no one will know anyways.

Speaker:

I love the pure Giallo,

Speaker:

like, absurdity of Amanda on the roof.

Speaker:

So good.

Speaker:

And just, it's just so

Speaker:

fun. Amanda's on the roof.

Speaker:

Also, apparently,

Speaker:

Cecilia looking out.

Speaker:

The window there was the most

Speaker:

complicated shot in the entire

Speaker:

movie, to the point where the DVD

Speaker:

has a John Madden,

Speaker:

like, arrow

Speaker:

on the screen breakdown

Speaker:

of how they filmed that without

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catching the camera and the reflection.

Speaker:

Because sometimes

Speaker:

basic filmmaking is the hardest

Speaker:

thing in the world.

Speaker:

Yeah, it's very convenient for us as critics. We can sit back

Speaker:

and just judge the product on screen without thinking

Speaker:

of how goddamn hard it is not to catch

Speaker:

a camera and a reflection.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Like, there have been so many movies where

Speaker:

you wouldn't even think about it, but it was a nightmare

Speaker:

to film because everything was

Speaker:

reflective. All the set design was designed to be

Speaker:

reflective. We've seen that

Speaker:

shot in Hook.

Speaker:

Or I'm thinking, like, 13 Ghosts

Speaker:

where they were talking about what a huge pain in the ass

Speaker:

that movie was, because everything was basically made out of glass.

Speaker:

So you're just catching

Speaker:

reflections on literally every surface

Speaker:

and everything gets smudged, so you can't have, like,

Speaker:

your cast and crew walking around that place or it looks

Speaker:

dirty.

Speaker:

A couple things here.

Speaker:

Quick succession. Smallest point to get

Speaker:

through. One, I hate these pig masks.

Speaker:

They just don't quite have the

Speaker:

same quality. I've already bitched about this in other commentaries.

Speaker:

Apparently, the original

Speaker:

Don Post

Speaker:

masks have gone out of production

Speaker:

and some reason the

Speaker:

Jigsaw production company just doesn't own, like,

Speaker:

fucking 90 of these masks in a warehouse somewhere.

Speaker:

It doesn't look like John bought

Speaker:

a Jigsaw pig

Speaker:

mask from a store.

Speaker:

Yeah, so these are kind of reschooled ones.

Speaker:

Yeah, they're just not as good.

Speaker:

It doesn't impact anything at all.

Speaker:

In fact, it's still kind of funny that they're wearing the pig

Speaker:

mask for no reason, but it, I guess, fits in

Speaker:

with the Jallo idea. Like, it visually

Speaker:

is a good cue. It helps Amanda get psyched

Speaker:

up. Yeah.

Speaker:

Two, it's great that we have

Speaker:

Amanda back. I absolutely love that we can

Speaker:

have the interplay between her and John, because I think

Speaker:

that adds so much to any movie when

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you have those two working with each other.

Speaker:

But three,

Speaker:

if this movie had a larger budget, you have to

Speaker:

imagine they would have done a little bit of CGI

Speaker:

de-aging, right? Oh, yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah, it's

Speaker:

weird. I'm weirdly

Speaker:

not bothered by

Speaker:

Tobin. Well, he's

Speaker:

supposed to be, like, cancer-stricken and dying, so you

Speaker:

can just kind of go, eh, alright, it makes sense he looks

Speaker:

older. And he's also, like, looked old since, I don't know,

Speaker:

the 90s.

Speaker:

But, yeah, I mean,

Speaker:

Johnny Smith, luckily, is

Speaker:

like, aged very gracefully,

Speaker:

but is obviously,

Speaker:

like, 15 years older.

Speaker:

It's not 2001.

Speaker:

Right, the fact that this is supposed to be firmly,

Speaker:

you know, like, Saw 1.5

Speaker:

territory, if you were to watch these

Speaker:

in chronological order, like, at a

Speaker:

party, you'd be very taken aback

Speaker:

when all of a sudden it's like, wait,

Speaker:

this is supposed to be the next one? And the wig's

Speaker:

rough. It's rough. It's real

Speaker:

rough. The wig was

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real bad.

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I think her body language

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is all pretty much exactly the same. It's just

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the wig and... Yeah.

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You just kind of have to accept that she

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looks noticeably much older.

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You're right. And it's one of those deals where,

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if you didn't have the idea this was supposed

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to be young Amanda,

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it wouldn't matter in the slightest.

Speaker:

But if you're a nitpicky nerd, then it's gonna be

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frustrating. It's really, and it's really

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weird. Arguably,

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Shawnee Smith looked exactly the same

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until,

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I don't know, like, seven years ago.

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So it's like,

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if you just made this, like, five

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years earlier, it would have been

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perfectly fine. Well, I mean, the Saw series

Speaker:

has been pretty bad at making people look young.

Speaker:

Like, just think of the last movie.

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Why with Tobin Bell? Samuel L. Jackson,

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make him look young, they just kind of slapped a mustache on him.

Speaker:

Or Tobin Bell, they just, like, made him wear a hoodie

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and a hat. I don't

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think they're very good at flashback aging folks.

Speaker:

I don't think they have necessarily the money for it,

Speaker:

and they're just trusting that the audience is gonna get over it.

Speaker:

It

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definitely helps that

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you're essentially

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watching what amounts to

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a full-budget

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Saw fan film

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in what it's going for.

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I mean, I'm way more

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forgiving of goofy shit

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like that than I would in a different production.

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I want to get back

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to the idea of fan film in a minute,

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so don't let me forget. But before we get to that,

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I have a fun fact, not-so-fun fact, about

Speaker:

Pee-Wee's Playhouse, tied to the

Speaker:

de-aging. I learned recently

Speaker:

that, you know, there was the Pee-Wee movie for

Speaker:

Netflix, and apparently

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it did fairly well, ratings-wise. And the

Speaker:

reason we never got a follow-up was

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it was too expensive to keep

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CGI-ing Pee-Wee Herman to be a younger-looking,

Speaker:

man.

Speaker:

Because Paul Reubens insisted Pee-Wee Herman

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should not look old. We should

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make him kind of young, that's part of his character.

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So they spent a lot of money on

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de-aging technology to smooth him out

Speaker:

for his Netflix special.

Speaker:

And that was part of the reason why they

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said, well, you did good, but you didn't draw

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enough viewers to justify the expense of

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de-aging you for another movie.

Speaker:

And Paul Reubens didn't want to do one if they made Pee-Wee

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look old. I honestly

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did not notice that at all.

Speaker:

I feel like he didn't

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look old enough when you could just do it in

Speaker:

makeup. You would think,

Speaker:

but apparently that was the route and

Speaker:

one of the arguing points he kind of got stuck on.

Speaker:

So, who would have guessed?

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He just looked like

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old Paul Reubens. It didn't work.

Speaker:

Just think, if they'd

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only waited another 20 years, we could have had an immortal

Speaker:

CGI hologram of Pee-Wee Herman. They could have

Speaker:

just pumped them out for decades.

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God, that's a bad wig.

Speaker:

I wonder how much

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not noticeable

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the age difference would be

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if the wig was good.

Speaker:

I think if the wig was good, this would be fine.

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I think you would just kind of ignore everything else.

Speaker:

It's not like she looks

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200 years old or has a huge amount

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of plastic surgery and leaves a totally different

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face.

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She's not Mickey Rourke.

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Yeah, exactly.

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I do want to point out that they have

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kept Amanda pushing carts around.

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Which is apparently her favorite thing

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in the world to do.

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That's her thing. It takes the edge off.

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We should also mention that

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surprise, surprise, I saw a film had a hard time

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with the MPAA.

Speaker:

This scene apparently gave them a lot

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of trouble because towards the end of the leg

Speaker:

amputation, you see the top of the

Speaker:

leg, the flesh kind of bulging up

Speaker:

with the saw as she struggles to cut through

Speaker:

the final strip after the leg is already

Speaker:

basically severed.

Speaker:

They didn't like that. They apparently had a hard time

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getting that specific thing through.

Speaker:

So random.

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Everything else is fine.

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I mean, they had to make edits

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to a lot of other spots, you know, to get the traps down

Speaker:

and all that, but it's funny when

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they pick very specific things like

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that detail is too much. That's in my

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nightmares. Oh, we got a John explosion.

Speaker:

A rarity.

Speaker:

That's always nice when he does those

Speaker:

little pops. We lose control.

Speaker:

I really wish he had the soul patch.

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Could you imagine that if he's bald and just had the soul

Speaker:

patch and he's wearing the red robe the entire time?

Speaker:

So this

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is something that I find interesting here

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because in the deleted scenes, they really expand

Speaker:

on Peterson

Speaker:

trying to hoodwink

Speaker:

John again saying, well, my dad actually could

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do the cure. I couldn't

Speaker:

hear or your case was different, but

Speaker:

if we went to him, he could fix you

Speaker:

in this movie. They like bring up

Speaker:

just for this one line and they basically call

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her a liar and bring up all the dead people that she

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didn't cure. The deleted scenes

Speaker:

really keep hammering this and they get into a

Speaker:

deeper philosophical discussion about moral high

Speaker:

grounds. She doesn't let the idea go

Speaker:

that there's actually a cure out there if

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John would help her out.

Speaker:

Which is weird because I'm

Speaker:

like, is that necessary? Is that

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supposed to be like

Speaker:

leftover thread for a deeper idea

Speaker:

you could follow in a sequel?

Speaker:

Or what was the purpose of that?

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Yeah.

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Well, it's an entire

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thing with Cecilia's character

Speaker:

that's left on the cutting room floor.

Speaker:

The fact that she's motivated

Speaker:

out of wanting to shame her

Speaker:

father

Speaker:

who, for all

Speaker:

intents and purposes, seems to be a

Speaker:

genius, but

Speaker:

because he was a bad father

Speaker:

she wants to pervert

Speaker:

what he did, which again, that's

Speaker:

so fat. I'm so frustrated

Speaker:

that's not in the movie because that makes

Speaker:

her such a fascinating foil for

Speaker:

John, where

Speaker:

ultimately it's not even

Speaker:

about the fortune she's making.

Speaker:

It's a very petty

Speaker:

psychological reason.

Speaker:

Well,

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I have a feeling she'll be back in Saw 11

Speaker:

so maybe that's something they can explore in that one.

Speaker:

I think they've kind of hinted around at that

Speaker:

anyway. Yeah. She does survive

Speaker:

in a weird deleted scene that

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I guess was supposed to be the original

Speaker:

after credits scene before

Speaker:

we got big Papa Hoff coming back.

Speaker:

They do still have Amanda

Speaker:

going like, so what if

Speaker:

she's telling the truth though?

Speaker:

Which is interesting.

Speaker:

I think they wanted to play with that.

Speaker:

Is John being so steadfastly

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jigsaw and

Speaker:

so angry that he is

Speaker:

giving up something

Speaker:

that could theoretically

Speaker:

help him?

Speaker:

Especially because at this point we still don't know if the

Speaker:

guy who told him about the treatment was lying

Speaker:

or not.

Speaker:

They're setting up an alternate

Speaker:

universe where Jigsaw actually is cured and then

Speaker:

they just keep making Saw movies for as long

Speaker:

as Tobin Bell wants to make them.

Speaker:

Wouldn't that

Speaker:

be fucking wild if they just kind of pulled like a

Speaker:

Halloween 2018 and they just retconned

Speaker:

everything after Saw 1 and they

Speaker:

didn't tell us until Saw 11?

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Oh, it's the ultimate plot

Speaker:

twist.

Speaker:

I mean, I think if you announce that

Speaker:

literally, oh, we're just doing a different timeline

Speaker:

the fans would go, oh.

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Alright, cool.

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I don't.

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I don't even think there'd be pushback.

Speaker:

I think they'd just be along for the ride as long as you're open

Speaker:

about it and you didn't try and do some weird twist like

Speaker:

well, John snuck off and got cured

Speaker:

and his evil brother was the one

Speaker:

on the autopsy table.

Speaker:

Absolutely no Hoffman in this universe.

Speaker:

Well, we've

Speaker:

already seen him in this one, so I think we're stuck with

Speaker:

this Hoffman. I hate that

Speaker:

I popped for Hoffman.

Speaker:

I know. The moment John

Speaker:

referenced his detective

Speaker:

friend.

Speaker:

Jigsaw's

Speaker:

network of agents.

Speaker:

They somehow gave Hoffman

Speaker:

like three different cameos, like

Speaker:

levels of cameos.

Speaker:

It's like

Speaker:

Apocalypse Now.

Speaker:

Like they just keep hinting at more and more of them

Speaker:

until you finally see him in the end.

Speaker:

It makes me at least

Speaker:

want like, okay, can we

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do a movie where it's John, Amanda

Speaker:

and Hoffman to make Hoffman work?

Speaker:

It was so great actually getting a John and Amanda

Speaker:

movie here. It adds so much

Speaker:

to the movies that are already

Speaker:

made, two and three.

Speaker:

So I

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think this might be

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like as simple as it is

Speaker:

the gnarliest

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trap in this entire

Speaker:

franchise. This is some terrifier

Speaker:

shit to me. Oh, yeah.

Speaker:

I mean, you have to be

Speaker:

so active during it.

Speaker:

Like there's so much you have to tie a

Speaker:

tourniquet. You're on a timer. One

Speaker:

most of us don't know how to tie a tourniquet

Speaker:

if we had like YouTube in front of us, let alone

Speaker:

just figure it out on the fly. Two

Speaker:

you have to saw your leg off. Then you have

Speaker:

to figure out how this this fucking needle works

Speaker:

to suck the marrow out.

Speaker:

It's it's a lot. John's

Speaker:

asking a lot. He really wants this person to die.

Speaker:

There's other saw traps where it literally comes down to

Speaker:

like, hey man, if you just cut

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your leg off and shoot a guy, you're done. Like

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you're okay. This one like

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I fucking got a like a nine

Speaker:

step program. I got to go through

Speaker:

and then there's

Speaker:

something and you

Speaker:

talked a couple of commentaries ago about

Speaker:

how much

Speaker:

is lost whenever you

Speaker:

don't let the traps

Speaker:

have any kind of mounting

Speaker:

tension. The fact that this movie

Speaker:

has enough air in it for us

Speaker:

to basically get like 10

Speaker:

15 minutes of build up

Speaker:

to this. And then once

Speaker:

you get to the scene, it delivers.

Speaker:

Well, I think the

Speaker:

original cut of the movie. They said this this first

Speaker:

trap was supposed to be like a seven minute long thing

Speaker:

even though it's time for like three minutes

Speaker:

just to show you how much extra stuff

Speaker:

they're going to do into the lead up and like the

Speaker:

tension and the in between bits and

Speaker:

that we just saw the skin flap

Speaker:

but they didn't like that. Like the actual

Speaker:

Garrett garotting is so

Speaker:

short compared

Speaker:

to the build up because of

Speaker:

all of those steps along the

Speaker:

way.

Speaker:

It

Speaker:

goes back to what

Speaker:

made, you know, the first saw

Speaker:

traps in the original so terrifying

Speaker:

like it's

Speaker:

it's not about, you know,

Speaker:

the

Speaker:

Rube Goldberg contraptions.

Speaker:

It's not about

Speaker:

like a hyper

Speaker:

specific gore. It's just about

Speaker:

the simplicity of what

Speaker:

would you do if you were in this

Speaker:

situation and you had to do the

Speaker:

worst thing in the world to yourself to

Speaker:

survive?

Speaker:

Yeah, that always works more for me because

Speaker:

everyone can understand on a visceral level when it's

Speaker:

one of those where okay, we have to sit down and

Speaker:

do a brain teaser to survive this puzzle

Speaker:

and then we realize 20 minutes later. We did

Speaker:

the puzzle wrong.

Speaker:

Those kind of bum me out. I love

Speaker:

this because they couldn't find a way

Speaker:

to get that level to drop

Speaker:

evenly. So that is the director

Speaker:

behind the scenes physically moving

Speaker:

the lever down trying to be as steady as possible

Speaker:

because that was the easiest

Speaker:

solution. It's like a Jurassic Park when you find out they're

Speaker:

just plucking a guitar string underneath the water.

Speaker:

Glass.

Speaker:

This is one of the other things just due to

Speaker:

dramatic styling.

Speaker:

You always have to make it close. You always got to make it look

Speaker:

like they're, oh, if they had five more seconds, they

Speaker:

could have done it.

Speaker:

But it just feels cheap at

Speaker:

that point because like

Speaker:

the movie dictates I have to get close, but they'll never

Speaker:

make it. So it removes some of the

Speaker:

fun for me when no one gets through their

Speaker:

goddamn traps. Yeah, it's

Speaker:

one of those.

Speaker:

The bomb always gets

Speaker:

deactivated at once.

Speaker:

Second kind of deals like, yeah, it's

Speaker:

like there's no real good

Speaker:

way to do it. Unfortunately,

Speaker:

like you remove all the tension if she's like,

Speaker:

yeah, didn't even get close

Speaker:

like she was fucking spent three minutes just sitting there

Speaker:

crying like that's just sad for us. Like the

Speaker:

amount of times I've I've been

Speaker:

watching like a movie like this and trying

Speaker:

to think up like

Speaker:

narrative ways to do

Speaker:

sequences like that differently

Speaker:

to avoid the cliche

Speaker:

and there's just no good way

Speaker:

to do it. You just have to

Speaker:

it sucks though. It sucks that you have

Speaker:

to eat. There's only like one

Speaker:

normal way to do it. I

Speaker:

think they had the right idea with

Speaker:

was it three

Speaker:

where the judge survives his trap like

Speaker:

they get him out of the pig drowning situation

Speaker:

and then they kill him later in a different trap

Speaker:

like they kind of got to have their cake

Speaker:

and eat it too because he gets a really gross trap

Speaker:

that gets that reaction from the audience

Speaker:

and they've almost a couple times.

Speaker:

Yeah, but I think the traps

Speaker:

work best when you can sprinkle more of that in and you

Speaker:

just know it's not gonna be out dead dead dead

Speaker:

dead. Some of the

Speaker:

saw films really work out like each room

Speaker:

one person dies and becomes too formulaic.

Speaker:

So an idea

Speaker:

I want to get back to before I forget about it again.

Speaker:

Jamie, you mentioned this is basically

Speaker:

saw the fan film and

Speaker:

I wouldn't disagree

Speaker:

with that, but also

Speaker:

in in the media escape we have

Speaker:

now where callbacks

Speaker:

are always needed or there needs to be some deep

Speaker:

lore for the huge true fans

Speaker:

and always feels like the filmmakers'

Speaker:

are pandering to an audience.

Speaker:

This one is loaded with

Speaker:

past characters, little references

Speaker:

and nods to the previous films, but I never

Speaker:

got that hit over the head sense

Speaker:

that this is just fan service in the movie.

Speaker:

And I think a lot of it is because they allow

Speaker:

us to spend so much time with these characters.

Speaker:

It doesn't feel like lip service. It feels

Speaker:

like, no, they're back. We know you love

Speaker:

them. We're going to give you the reason why you love

Speaker:

them. The underlying cause, not just

Speaker:

the superficial, look, it's

Speaker:

everyone's favorite apprentice. You know her,

Speaker:

moving on. You get to see

Speaker:

Amanda doing Amanda things for an extended

Speaker:

time, which is

Speaker:

really what the audience wants. They don't want to

Speaker:

just see a lip service paid to a character.

Speaker:

And this movie gets that

Speaker:

idea. You really actually have to delve

Speaker:

into these things. And

Speaker:

fuck, no one really gets that. Even something like

Speaker:

Ghostbusters has repeatedly

Speaker:

tried to revive the magic of one and they never

Speaker:

really quite figured out what that was.

Speaker:

This is obviously

Speaker:

a very different movie than Saw, but I

Speaker:

think it hits on so many of the things the fans

Speaker:

came to love about the series over the years

Speaker:

that it doesn't feel

Speaker:

like a legacy sequel.

Speaker:

It doesn't feel like

Speaker:

a remake in disguise.

Speaker:

It feels like an honest-to-God entry

Speaker:

of what everyone wanted.

Speaker:

I'm reminded of

Speaker:

when Joss Whedon was talking about

Speaker:

doing Age of Ultron. He said,

Speaker:

we're not going to go bigger, we're going to go deeper.

Speaker:

And he didn't do that.

Speaker:

But that applies here.

Speaker:

Now, to

Speaker:

defend Age of Ultron, we got Vision, who

Speaker:

is the best character in the entire

Speaker:

MCU. That's true.

Speaker:

I know

Speaker:

people don't like Age of Ultron

Speaker:

and I'm not going to sit here and defend it as a great movie,

Speaker:

but, boy,

Speaker:

I really enjoy a lot of the scenes with

Speaker:

Vision in that movie. Every scene with Vision

Speaker:

is golden. It's the only thing that works.

Speaker:

The little ending bit there was

Speaker:

like, well, I was born yesterday.

Speaker:

Great show. Great scene.

Speaker:

There's a lot of good stuff in Age of Ultron.

Speaker:

There are. It's broken, but

Speaker:

alright, now we're getting to something here that's

Speaker:

fascinating. Yes. Something John didn't

Speaker:

quite anticipate, and it's the characters

Speaker:

being more brutal than he

Speaker:

is. And the ingenuity

Speaker:

of, if I was in a saw trap, how would I get out?

Speaker:

And when you're sitting around in a room with your friends drunk

Speaker:

and you say something like, oh, we'd make a rope with intestines!

Speaker:

That character actually did it.

Speaker:

So it's great about having her

Speaker:

kind of be the intellectual

Speaker:

equal to Jigsaw.

Speaker:

Even though he still

Speaker:

does kind of anticipate she's going to

Speaker:

try something like this. Yeah.

Speaker:

He's not totally... Just not to like, this

Speaker:

to preach. Yeah. I would

Speaker:

have killed to have been in a

Speaker:

packed theater for We Have a Rope.

Speaker:

Also, God,

Speaker:

in... After

Speaker:

eight movies of

Speaker:

dumbass

Speaker:

saw victims,

Speaker:

it's really nice

Speaker:

to see someone...

Speaker:

you know, using the

Speaker:

environment again.

Speaker:

Again, for the first time since

Speaker:

the first movie, which might as well

Speaker:

be the tagline for this commentary.

Speaker:

Two

Speaker:

things about this. One, another comment

Speaker:

back to

Speaker:

my bitching about Spiral. Just...

Speaker:

We had a moment kind of like this,

Speaker:

but it felt lazier when Chris Rock gets out of his

Speaker:

trap because it doesn't feel, like, as inspired.

Speaker:

This is great! Like, it's a character

Speaker:

scheming their way out of the situation.

Speaker:

Two, I swear,

Speaker:

I'm gonna quit bitching about Spiral. We move past.

Speaker:

Two,

Speaker:

I love in the commentary, they mentioned that

Speaker:

the fake intestines they had, they thought

Speaker:

they were gonna take all day to throw these things around

Speaker:

the cart. They did that twice, and both

Speaker:

times, the rope worked perfectly. Like, just

Speaker:

wrapped around the tires, and they couldn't believe

Speaker:

their luck. It was like in fucking Hannibal

Speaker:

where they threw the potato up in the air, and it

Speaker:

perfectly got stabbed on the knife the first time

Speaker:

Mads tried it, instead of, like, having to bring in, like, a professional

Speaker:

juggler.

Speaker:

Gore finds a way.

Speaker:

I'd like to know what they make

Speaker:

fake intestines out of. Like, what's the material

Speaker:

there? Don't they just

Speaker:

use, uh, like, pig

Speaker:

tripe or something?

Speaker:

Isn't that fresh?

Speaker:

Sometimes?

Speaker:

You know, in movies like The Thing, they'll use actual

Speaker:

animal intestines. The problem there

Speaker:

is, boy, is it gross, and it gets

Speaker:

smelly. Um, especially

Speaker:

under hot studio lights. So I feel

Speaker:

like if you're trying to do stunt stuff, they

Speaker:

might have something different, like

Speaker:

an actual prop.

Speaker:

That would be a prop. Yeah. I don't

Speaker:

think they'd use actual real guts for that

Speaker:

either. It's probably less common these days, too,

Speaker:

because I feel like you do have to get, like, a, you know,

Speaker:

no animals were harmed in the making

Speaker:

of this film thing, and I don't know if they count, like,

Speaker:

buying intestines.

Speaker:

Also, just to offset Cody

Speaker:

shitting on Spiral, I just wanted

Speaker:

to restate for the record, I love Spiral.

Speaker:

Took a number two with his rifle, yeah?

Speaker:

Also, once

Speaker:

again,

Speaker:

Tony Smith is having so much goddamn fun.

Speaker:

I never expected her to get this much

Speaker:

screen time. I thought she was a cameo.

Speaker:

I was shocked we were getting a full

Speaker:

Manda and John movie. When they announced she was

Speaker:

coming back, it was really like, oh, cool, so she'll get, like,

Speaker:

a scene, and then she'll be out of the movie, just to make the fans

Speaker:

happy. So it really blows

Speaker:

my mind. She's, like, co-lead after that first,

Speaker:

like, 45 minutes.

Speaker:

Also, a nice

Speaker:

thing here, we're moving through

Speaker:

our traps. We've got one person

Speaker:

dead. There's not a ton

Speaker:

of people in this room, but they're taking

Speaker:

their time. It's not like, oh, trap, someone's dead,

Speaker:

five minutes later, oh, another trap, someone's dead.

Speaker:

They're kind of letting these things play out.

Speaker:

They're letting scenes develop in between.

Speaker:

There's plot

Speaker:

happenings beyond just trap,

Speaker:

trap, trap.

Speaker:

It's very nice. It feels

Speaker:

like a movie. Measured.

Speaker:

Like, it's not breakneck pacing,

Speaker:

which is something weird to say

Speaker:

about a Saw film where, like, oh, thank God

Speaker:

they're slowing down. But we've

Speaker:

had enough of them moving too fast for their own

Speaker:

good. It's good they can have some... They got too fast, yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah. How much the last, like,

Speaker:

five have been too fast.

Speaker:

No, the dummy!

Speaker:

So unnecessary to use a real head.

Speaker:

No, Logan was in there.

Speaker:

Right, that's just, that's extra.

Speaker:

Everyone in this movie's just so

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extra.

Speaker:

The way this film

Speaker:

is structured reminds me just kind of of

Speaker:

a

Speaker:

more foreign film.

Speaker:

Like, more European, maybe

Speaker:

British or something.

Speaker:

But

Speaker:

it feels more like

Speaker:

something you'd see on the indie scene in another

Speaker:

country than, like, a big movie

Speaker:

here, which is cool.

Speaker:

I mean, to me, it's a revenge film.

Speaker:

So it's basically, I spit on your grave.

Speaker:

Well, maybe

Speaker:

a little classier than I spit on your grave. But, you know,

Speaker:

that idea.

Speaker:

I'd say, going back

Speaker:

to its origin

Speaker:

point,

Speaker:

this feels very much like

Speaker:

a French New Extremity movie.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Almost, like, similar to something like Martyrs.

Speaker:

Those movies that

Speaker:

are based

Speaker:

more around the threat

Speaker:

of a horrible thing happening

Speaker:

and the tension and

Speaker:

conversations around that situation

Speaker:

rather than the actual acts themselves.

Speaker:

I might

Speaker:

be not too far off to say that, considering

Speaker:

we have things like High Tension, where, you know,

Speaker:

a major twist is kind of baked in.

Speaker:

To the DNA of the film.

Speaker:

This is definitely...

Speaker:

It doesn't have the same impact,

Speaker:

maybe, as John getting up from the floor of Saw 1,

Speaker:

but it's a very twisty film.

Speaker:

Like, they get you with a couple different ones in here.

Speaker:

One, we get John Hoogdwinked, which is one the audience

Speaker:

knows about ahead of time due to marketing and...

Speaker:

Well, one, it'd be weird if he was

Speaker:

cured of cancer in this movie and then had it again later.

Speaker:

God!

Speaker:

That's why John got crueler.

Speaker:

He just went into remission. He's like,

Speaker:

well, back to the killing.

Speaker:

Oh, no!

Speaker:

I turned on the...

Speaker:

I turned on the microwave

Speaker:

while it was plugged into the wrong outlet,

Speaker:

and now I have radiation sickness.

Speaker:

God damn it!

Speaker:

John gets cancer a different time every movie.

Speaker:

But we kind of have building twists here, right?

Speaker:

Like, this character turns out he's in cahoots

Speaker:

with the evil doctor,

Speaker:

and then they turn the table on John,

Speaker:

but it turns out John planned for this,

Speaker:

so he turns the tables back on them!

Speaker:

And there's kind of that back and forth twisting.

Speaker:

It's...

Speaker:

It works better, because at this point,

Speaker:

we know in a Saw movie,

Speaker:

there's going to be one big twist at the end.

Speaker:

So having that offset by a series of smaller twists

Speaker:

throughout the movies,

Speaker:

I think holds the spirit of the franchise in place

Speaker:

without giving the same formula

Speaker:

we've kind of gotten tired of.

Speaker:

It's not a twist movie.

Speaker:

The twists throughout it are plot happenings

Speaker:

more than, like, big twists.

Speaker:

The closest you can get to a big twist is...

Speaker:

Carlos.

Speaker:

Like, something John didn't anticipate.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Coming into play, but...

Speaker:

Other than that,

Speaker:

I'm kind of bummed that

Speaker:

we do learn that John knows, like,

Speaker:

this dude's real story.

Speaker:

Because I just love how aggressively, like,

Speaker:

bullshitty he was.

Speaker:

Like, oh no, it's only okay for me

Speaker:

to try to beat cancer.

Speaker:

You shouldn't try.

Speaker:

Oh, but guns are my favorite.

Speaker:

Going to the Carlos thing.

Speaker:

Obviously, that'll pop up later,

Speaker:

but it is kind of amazing.

Speaker:

This is only, like, really the second time

Speaker:

a child's been put in danger in Saw,

Speaker:

and the first time it's been explicit.

Speaker:

Because we had the...

Speaker:

I forget the name of the child

Speaker:

that was kidnapped and basically held in a safe

Speaker:

in Saw 3.

Speaker:

But she was never actually in danger.

Speaker:

Not really, no.

Speaker:

Yeah, it was always their plan to, like,

Speaker:

release her and use her as part of the frame.

Speaker:

It was only over Gordon's kid.

Speaker:

That's true.

Speaker:

Yeah, actually, I forgot about that.

Speaker:

Because when they were talking about this movie,

Speaker:

they were talking about how the producers

Speaker:

had kind of drawn a line in the sand,

Speaker:

saying, hey, we don't ever want to actively

Speaker:

put a kid in a trap.

Speaker:

And they had to be talked into it.

Speaker:

Like, no, other movies have done it.

Speaker:

I like that they used hereditary as an example.

Speaker:

Like, hey, that one kid got her head cleaned off

Speaker:

by a telephone pole.

Speaker:

And the producer was like, well, you got us there.

Speaker:

That movie did pretty well.

Speaker:

That was a laugh, right?

Speaker:

I always think back, like, it's weird

Speaker:

that kids have been so taboo in horror,

Speaker:

considering most audiences,

Speaker:

for horror films are kids,

Speaker:

are younger, you know, like maybe teenagers.

Speaker:

And it would make more sense to put people

Speaker:

of their own age into these traps

Speaker:

because they're going to identify with that more.

Speaker:

I think a lot of it is like people become parents

Speaker:

and they don't want to imagine putting a kid,

Speaker:

their kid in a trap.

Speaker:

And they kind of go, no, no,

Speaker:

that makes me feel uncomfortable.

Speaker:

Let's not do it.

Speaker:

Which is all the more reason to do it.

Speaker:

Well, it's fascinating that that's a,

Speaker:

that's a fear of a moral backlash

Speaker:

that to my knowledge,

Speaker:

has never actually happened.

Speaker:

You look at all the moral panics over horror

Speaker:

over the 20th century.

Speaker:

None of them seem to be based around media

Speaker:

depicting anything happening to kids explicitly.

Speaker:

It's all just adult situations with adults.

Speaker:

I think it's more preemptive though.

Speaker:

I think people are afraid they're going to get hit by it.

Speaker:

So studios just haven't allowed it to happen.

Speaker:

It's just weird.

Speaker:

That's a, that's a,

Speaker:

that's a shoe that has never dropped

Speaker:

in the history of horror.

Speaker:

You have moral panics.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Like, uh,

Speaker:

fuck, uh,

Speaker:

Guillermo del Toro apparently had it.

Speaker:

I'm sorry.

Speaker:

It's Billy.

Speaker:

Del Toro apparently had a hard time

Speaker:

selling the script for mimic

Speaker:

because that was a big part of it

Speaker:

where like kids go down to the subway station,

Speaker:

get murdered by the, uh,

Speaker:

like the Judas insects.

Speaker:

Oh God.

Speaker:

Remember the relic,

Speaker:

that movie that has a kid

Speaker:

just straight up gobbled up hole.

Speaker:

That was shocking at the time.

Speaker:

Like that was not done.

Speaker:

Rock and roll.

Speaker:

Like Cody,

Speaker:

like Cody said,

Speaker:

a lot of it is on the creators

Speaker:

usually have kids or around kids or something

Speaker:

and then just feel uncomfortable doing it.

Speaker:

So they kind of like,

Speaker:

it reminds me like Scott Snyder was asked

Speaker:

like why he never used Damien.

Speaker:

And his thing was,

Speaker:

he finally said,

Speaker:

because my kids the same age as Damien.

Speaker:

So having him be shot and punched

Speaker:

is really uncomfortable for me.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

it's changing attitudes as directors get older too.

Speaker:

You talk to Sam Raimi,

Speaker:

now,

Speaker:

and he basically tell you like,

Speaker:

ah,

Speaker:

I was kind of a dumb kid.

Speaker:

So I would not have made a lot of the evil dead choices

Speaker:

today that I made then.

Speaker:

Like the tree rape or a lot of those kinds of things.

Speaker:

It's like,

Speaker:

nah,

Speaker:

that was a,

Speaker:

that was an edge master kind of thing as a kid.

Speaker:

Now that I'm adult,

Speaker:

I'm like,

Speaker:

yeah,

Speaker:

no,

Speaker:

that was stupid.

Speaker:

Shouldn't have done it.

Speaker:

The tree rape was Tapper.

Speaker:

That's not surprising.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

The checks.

Speaker:

I still,

Speaker:

my favorite is the commentary for army of darkness

Speaker:

where they just have naked women and chains being led around

Speaker:

by the skeletons.

Speaker:

And Sam Raimi on the commentary goes,

Speaker:

that was Tapper's idea.

Speaker:

I don't,

Speaker:

I don't really know why we did this,

Speaker:

but he insisted.

Speaker:

So we just did this.

Speaker:

Love that.

Speaker:

Like,

Speaker:

of course,

Speaker:

throw the guy under the bus tires immediately.

Speaker:

That's like,

Speaker:

what did they do with them?

Speaker:

What did the,

Speaker:

what did the skeletons do?

Speaker:

I don't know,

Speaker:

but they've all got boners.

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

I set you up.

Speaker:

You knocked them down.

Speaker:

It's in the fucking commentary.

Speaker:

I don't know.

Speaker:

I'm still got it.

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

made for intellectuals.

Speaker:

We still got like 45 minutes.

Speaker:

Uh,

Speaker:

we got a vamp.

Speaker:

That's why I was talking about mimic.

Speaker:

I had to,

Speaker:

I had to fill airtime.

Speaker:

So yay.

Speaker:

Brain surgery.

Speaker:

Brain surgery.

Speaker:

I like how retro,

Speaker:

like so much of this film that happens in it retroactively make things that

Speaker:

would happen to John later.

Speaker:

Some like weird karmic irony,

Speaker:

like him actually having brain surgery after being fake,

Speaker:

having brain surgery.

Speaker:

And then this,

Speaker:

but he brings it on himself.

Speaker:

Like he sets up,

Speaker:

he knows he needs the brain surgery.

Speaker:

So he arranges that whole trap,

Speaker:

which has another little layer of irony to it.

Speaker:

Also,

Speaker:

it's probably,

Speaker:

I haven't rewatched the movie since going through 10 again,

Speaker:

but it's kind of a fun twist.

Speaker:

If you know,

Speaker:

John knows what it's like to have witnessed a man die during brain surgery.

Speaker:

And he knows he has to go through it with a person doing it under duress.

Speaker:

That's a neat wrinkle to his characters.

Speaker:

It's like another fabric.

Speaker:

He could enjoy rewatching three.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Obviously they didn't know that was the,

Speaker:

the case.

Speaker:

It's all retroactive,

Speaker:

but you can put it in your head.

Speaker:

It's cool how it works.

Speaker:

I think whenever you're kind of doing stuff like this,

Speaker:

trying to,

Speaker:

you don't want to,

Speaker:

it's one thing to go like,

Speaker:

Hey,

Speaker:

let's call back to something that,

Speaker:

that would happen,

Speaker:

that we know would happen in the future or whatever.

Speaker:

Like that's easy when you kind of like in the DNA of this,

Speaker:

like between sequel type thing,

Speaker:

putting,

Speaker:

putting,

Speaker:

putting something in there that will,

Speaker:

that can hearken back,

Speaker:

that can kind of echo throughout the plots to come is to me way more

Speaker:

rewarding.

Speaker:

Like being able to go like do this.

Speaker:

Now you've,

Speaker:

you've built on something that already existed.

Speaker:

It's wild that we have a textually rich saw sequel.

Speaker:

So,

Speaker:

one thing I was always a little confused about.

Speaker:

There's a character twist with Dr.

Speaker:

Peterson where she's very encouraging to all these guys during their traps.

Speaker:

Like she's talking them through it.

Speaker:

She's telling them like,

Speaker:

Hey,

Speaker:

get your shit together.

Speaker:

You're not going to die like this.

Speaker:

But then with like the next trap,

Speaker:

she changes her tune and finishes off one of the survivors.

Speaker:

And that's after she now is back in power.

Speaker:

It's just,

Speaker:

yeah,

Speaker:

I guess that'd be a way to look at it,

Speaker:

but it threw me off because it felt like the,

Speaker:

the character motivation basically just turned on a dime and I didn't quite get

Speaker:

it because right now she just wants people to survive for her own self-survival.

Speaker:

I like the idea of an army of trap survivors overpowering jigsaw while bleeding

Speaker:

to death.

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

we did get the,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

saw support group in seven.

Speaker:

We're a superhero team.

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker:

they didn't,

Speaker:

they didn't,

Speaker:

they didn't have the budget to show us all those survivors in like their true capacity.

Speaker:

We got the one girl with a missing arm and the overall guys.

Speaker:

This is great.

Speaker:

Can I just say that?

Speaker:

This is great.

Speaker:

This was the trap that sold me on this movie.

Speaker:

When I saw the trailer,

Speaker:

like I was hopping up and down like a little kid watching Saturday morning cartoons.

Speaker:

They're gonna make a surgeon operate on his own brain.

Speaker:

It's,

Speaker:

it's,

Speaker:

it's,

Speaker:

I mean,

Speaker:

in the terms of complicated saw traps,

Speaker:

I think this edges a little bit more towards it because you have a guy who has a mirror

Speaker:

so he can watch his own surgery and then he's got to like fill the tank up.

Speaker:

But this works a lot better for me than something say like the trap where they had to cut pieces

Speaker:

of their bodies off to tip scales.

Speaker:

It helps that there's escalation in the complexity of the traps.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Plus,

Speaker:

I like when his brain comes out.

Speaker:

It just looks real good.

Speaker:

Fantastic.

Speaker:

The balls,

Speaker:

the balls of the Saul series to go,

Speaker:

you know,

Speaker:

we're going to do brain surgery scenes twice.

Speaker:

Also,

Speaker:

like,

Speaker:

come on,

Speaker:

man.

Speaker:

Some of these people,

Speaker:

their traps are like,

Speaker:

I mean,

Speaker:

we're going to suck your eyeballs out and you just have to break all your fingers.

Speaker:

Otherwise,

Speaker:

this one is,

Speaker:

you have to literally pull out parts of your own brain.

Speaker:

John,

Speaker:

you're giving this man like permanent brain damage.

Speaker:

He's missing parts of his thoughts.

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

it's the perfect crime.

Speaker:

He won't remember.

Speaker:

That John's jigsaw afterwards.

Speaker:

This for all we know,

Speaker:

he might lose motor function after like the third piece of brain he pulls out.

Speaker:

At least the other people are like,

Speaker:

well,

Speaker:

you lost a foot.

Speaker:

That kind of stinks.

Speaker:

And he's trying to make him nice.

Speaker:

Plus,

Speaker:

how overtop is this?

Speaker:

Like,

Speaker:

he has a deadly mask come onto his face and electrocute and fry and burn him.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

To death on top of like having parts of his brain removed.

Speaker:

At least the other person got killed instantly through decapitation.

Speaker:

This is a bit of an extra torture here.

Speaker:

You know,

Speaker:

part of me wanted it to open and then it should have been inside,

Speaker:

but then also didn't want it to open because that's still kind of cool that they kept it behind the mask.

Speaker:

It's a cool visual mind mask,

Speaker:

but it still would have been fucking cool if I think open and they're just like a smoking burnt skull underneath.

Speaker:

I would have liked it.

Speaker:

So I'm curious with it with this subplot.

Speaker:

Did you guys ever for a second to think that that dude was for real?

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

no.

Speaker:

Like with the neck thing,

Speaker:

like because he mentioned having the surgery on his neck.

Speaker:

And obviously he could have been scammed to the whole time,

Speaker:

but it just felt like,

Speaker:

I think he would be aware right away.

Speaker:

Like if someone cut your neck open or not,

Speaker:

or like did surgery on your neck.

Speaker:

I didn't even bother to cut like Kramer open,

Speaker:

right?

Speaker:

They just kind of like pretend to shave his head and like knocked him out.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I'm good.

Speaker:

I don't know if there's really a way to do that kind of twist in a way where the audience isn't going to see it coming.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

that's the really the problem with honestly,

Speaker:

the assault movie in general is you're kind of looking at twists everywhere.

Speaker:

You kind of make up twists in your head.

Speaker:

Like after you do one movie with a major twist,

Speaker:

you're fucked.

Speaker:

Like,

Speaker:

yeah,

Speaker:

people are going to expect them.

Speaker:

So they're going to be disappointed if you don't.

Speaker:

And they're going to be looking for twists the entire time.

Speaker:

So you either have to make your movie foolproof,

Speaker:

which is impossible or just admit,

Speaker:

okay,

Speaker:

the audience is smarter than us.

Speaker:

Let's just go for it with the one we have.

Speaker:

And hopefully they buy into it enough at the end.

Speaker:

This kind of works though,

Speaker:

because even though the audience is in on the act,

Speaker:

probably right away,

Speaker:

like we're going to know it.

Speaker:

There's still not sure if Jigsaw knows it.

Speaker:

So it's the idea of Kramer kind of playing it up.

Speaker:

Like he believes in this guy only for us to get the flashback later that he

Speaker:

tampered with the bullets.

Speaker:

So I think that's where the fun comes in.

Speaker:

Plus you get to do some of like the hypocrite stuff with,

Speaker:

with him,

Speaker:

like lambasting him.

Speaker:

So if you think the Jigsaw doesn't know,

Speaker:

it's like it adds to John's character.

Speaker:

I was seeing billion going.

Speaker:

No,

Speaker:

it's way funny.

Speaker:

It was about before we get too far away from the scene.

Speaker:

Uh,

Speaker:

I am not too big to admit that a scene in a saw movie made me well up with

Speaker:

tears.

Speaker:

Was it the brain surgery?

Speaker:

Yes,

Speaker:

actually it was,

Speaker:

it was Donnie Wahlberg,

Speaker:

right?

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

it was actually him.

Speaker:

Uh,

Speaker:

smashing his foot with that rock.

Speaker:

Brutality finish them.

Speaker:

This is,

Speaker:

this is like the one.

Speaker:

It seems like he actually wants her to get out of the trap.

Speaker:

Like this is the one person he's like,

Speaker:

it's also so needlessly cruel.

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

especially like all are,

Speaker:

but this one especially is like uncomfortably cruel.

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

she gets through the first part of the trap and then he has to relocate the,

Speaker:

the fucking radiation machine to realign with her.

Speaker:

It's like,

Speaker:

even look sad doing is like,

Speaker:

John,

Speaker:

you're making the rules,

Speaker:

man.

Speaker:

And she already has to like break her other limb,

Speaker:

just to get out of this thing.

Speaker:

And she's half burnt to death.

Speaker:

It's,

Speaker:

it's a weird mix.

Speaker:

Cause it feels like he really does want her to get out,

Speaker:

but he's like,

Speaker:

I also really,

Speaker:

really want to punish her first.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And you have Amanda more or less just actively campaigning for her,

Speaker:

for her to just be released.

Speaker:

Like,

Speaker:

no,

Speaker:

this isn't,

Speaker:

this isn't right.

Speaker:

Like Amanda,

Speaker:

knowing how,

Speaker:

what reality actually is.

Speaker:

And John just like,

Speaker:

no,

Speaker:

everything's in black and white.

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

and with the John character,

Speaker:

she's specifically the one he's coming back to give the bottle of booze to,

Speaker:

and the nice card.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

She's like the most hospitable to him when he's in the hospital.

Speaker:

So he forms that connection.

Speaker:

And I think he feels the most betrayed by her,

Speaker:

even though he realizes she had the least to do with his scam.

Speaker:

So maybe that's his conflict there.

Speaker:

Like he really wants to punish her because she should have,

Speaker:

she should have been the nice person he thought he thought she was,

Speaker:

but she didn't,

Speaker:

cut him open.

Speaker:

She didn't pretend to cut him open.

Speaker:

She didn't sell him this scam.

Speaker:

She didn't do all this other shit.

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

so I feel like he got that jacket on.

Speaker:

Just do something with the jacket.

Speaker:

Like just put it over your face while you're swinging the hammer.

Speaker:

So ignoring the fact that she's hanging in the air and there's a fucking radiation gun point at her face.

Speaker:

This I like it's very direct.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

You have a,

Speaker:

you have to basically destroy your ankle and your arm to escape this trap.

Speaker:

It's the only way.

Speaker:

And it's not even specifically timed.

Speaker:

You have forever theoretically until this thing burns you to death,

Speaker:

which I like when there's not a clock on the wall.

Speaker:

It's just really a matter of your own less clocks.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

It's just a matter of your own vitality.

Speaker:

One kind of bummer here is because they're using this bright red light.

Speaker:

It blares out most of the burn makeup that they have applied here.

Speaker:

You get to see it better when she falls out of the light.

Speaker:

And it's pretty gnarly,

Speaker:

but it's a shame that that effect kind of gets,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

hidden by the lighting.

Speaker:

It would've been really awkward if she dropped the hammer.

Speaker:

I was thinking that the whole time I watched the movie the first time,

Speaker:

like I'm,

Speaker:

I'm betting like she swings and just accidentally drops it somehow and just gets stuck there.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So there's really does feel like they looked at the opening of a saw three and thought to themselves,

Speaker:

what if we base a trap out of how utterly disgusting that is to watch?

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker:

I guess when we say simple,

Speaker:

this is what I mean.

Speaker:

It's,

Speaker:

it's just coming down to you get to watch a person's reaction and something gross happening.

Speaker:

You're getting,

Speaker:

you're getting like the misery reaction of a broken ankle.

Speaker:

And you're not even showing every single hit.

Speaker:

Most of them.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Most of the hits are not shown.

Speaker:

It's just her reaction selling it.

Speaker:

This fucking moment destroyed me.

Speaker:

It's like,

Speaker:

you kind of know it's coming,

Speaker:

but God damn it.

Speaker:

We didn't know we had a track.

Speaker:

It's again,

Speaker:

just the so much more needlessly cruel than,

Speaker:

um,

Speaker:

honestly,

Speaker:

the other ones.

Speaker:

Yeah.

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Kind of over the top.

Speaker:

This is,

Speaker:

there's something about the more simple it is,

Speaker:

the more cruel it is.

Speaker:

So which makes it feel more personal.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

This is just roasting somebody in front of a heat lamp.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And it feels more like you could survive something like this.

Speaker:

So it's frustrating.

Speaker:

A person doesn't know the other ones where you have to remove like bodily fluids by ripping off a limb and,

Speaker:

and carefully weighing on a scale.

Speaker:

It feels very,

Speaker:

very technical.

Speaker:

It's a lot of work.

Speaker:

It's like,

Speaker:

I probably wouldn't be able to do that.

Speaker:

I wouldn't be able to open up my own brain and then drop it into a vat.

Speaker:

This is moving parts.

Speaker:

So I could,

Speaker:

I could definitely smash my leg with a sledgehammer.

Speaker:

I wouldn't be happy about it,

Speaker:

but live or die.

Speaker:

I could make that choice.

Speaker:

There's so much you're going to read into the psychology of how the traps and this particular entry are staged.

Speaker:

Like I do really get the impression from that one that ideally John would like for her to survive,

Speaker:

but he wants to make sure that she suffers more physical pain before and after the trap than anyone else.

Speaker:

Like he wants her to be in pain for the rest of her life,

Speaker:

but still live.

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

you know,

Speaker:

as soon as she solves a trap,

Speaker:

he immediately tells Amanda,

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get her to a hospital.

Speaker:

Like he,

Speaker:

he doesn't wait at all.

Speaker:

So the intention seems pure in that sense.

Speaker:

Like he does not want this person to die despite setting up the trap.

Speaker:

So she will die.

Speaker:

John Kramer.

Speaker:

He's just a weird guy.

Speaker:

You know,

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very complicated.

Speaker:

He's sticking like all of his moral code codes are codes.

Speaker:

He.

Speaker:

Our codes,

Speaker:

he adheres to him himself to a psychotic degree,

Speaker:

and it's almost to keep himself in check at a certain point.

Speaker:

It's like Batman's no kill rule.

Speaker:

Oh God,

Speaker:

we're getting into the no kill rule,

Speaker:

especially on today of all days,

Speaker:

but Zack Snyder's like,

Speaker:

maybe Batman should kill people all the time.

Speaker:

Let's not date ourselves that much too late.

Speaker:

But I,

Speaker:

that,

Speaker:

that is to me what makes John's.

Speaker:

It's an interesting,

Speaker:

like movie monster type is with his,

Speaker:

his rules and his games.

Speaker:

He kind of just wants to kill everybody and wants to watch them die.

Speaker:

But he sets these things up to kind of separate himself,

Speaker:

self and make himself holier than thou in the process.

Speaker:

And also I would say probably to make it more interesting on top of everything

Speaker:

else.

Speaker:

I think a key component to his psychology is a very Hannibal Lecter,

Speaker:

like curiosity to a curiosity for just how,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

much you can bend to people before they break.

Speaker:

Just what happens when you put people in the absolute worst possible situations.

Speaker:

And here,

Speaker:

classic,

Speaker:

classic saw writing.

Speaker:

Huh?

Speaker:

We have the upper hand on this guy and could just kill him.

Speaker:

Better put him in a trap.

Speaker:

It always,

Speaker:

it always has to be like,

Speaker:

we've got to turn this around.

Speaker:

We've got to,

Speaker:

they punish you the same way you were going to punish us.

Speaker:

And it's like,

Speaker:

ah,

Speaker:

guys,

Speaker:

it's,

Speaker:

it's John Kramer.

Speaker:

Even though it's John Kramer,

Speaker:

I would not do this.

Speaker:

His whole thing is putting people in traps and getting out of them.

Speaker:

I love how in the commentary,

Speaker:

they full on call this their Adam West,

Speaker:

Batman moment.

Speaker:

Especially.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Cause they like leave the room while they're still in the trap.

Speaker:

It's like,

Speaker:

Oh no,

Speaker:

they haven't seen a movie in their lives.

Speaker:

That's why the,

Speaker:

the after credit scene ends with a spiral to the camera.

Speaker:

Johnny Smith getting to do or hear hidden talent of screaming in a song.

Speaker:

Scream acting.

Speaker:

Amanda's very visceral,

Speaker:

emotional reaction to Gabrielle dying.

Speaker:

Once again,

Speaker:

it's the little things that add to already existing arcs that we're aware of.

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

we know Gabrielle is like the drug addict character.

Speaker:

She's doing this because she needs drug money,

Speaker:

which obviously is going to tie closely into Amanda,

Speaker:

who is a drug addict in the earlier entries.

Speaker:

So that's a nice time.

Speaker:

And I'm glad,

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you know,

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folks that didn't watch the other saws,

Speaker:

like if they,

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for some reason were dragged to 10 might not get that connection,

Speaker:

but they would still know there was something there intrinsically just from

Speaker:

the reaction.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

It feels honest for the character,

Speaker:

even if you don't have the whole lore.

Speaker:

And I like that.

Speaker:

And it,

Speaker:

it feels like a missing piece that you weren't aware of in Amanda's overall

Speaker:

arc where now you can watch that in succession of the,

Speaker:

of the original three films and go,

Speaker:

okay,

Speaker:

this is Amanda before she has gone full killer and like completely devolved

Speaker:

into just pure id.

Speaker:

I'm sorry.

Speaker:

We missed it.

Speaker:

John went into power mode.

Speaker:

I don't know why.

Speaker:

It's a great,

Speaker:

just raising his fist.

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

John's going super saying,

Speaker:

look out,

Speaker:

reloading.

Speaker:

He's raising his arms.

Speaker:

Like he's Henry Cavill.

Speaker:

He's raising his cheese.

Speaker:

To be able to survive the blood punishment.

Speaker:

Also,

Speaker:

were you amused?

Speaker:

They brought back jig fucking saw as a line,

Speaker:

seemingly just so they could put it into a better movie.

Speaker:

If it's good,

Speaker:

it gets recycled.

Speaker:

It's fine to go way back though.

Speaker:

And this is just a me thing.

Speaker:

Anytime they have the Billy puppet moving,

Speaker:

it's,

Speaker:

it's,

Speaker:

it's very funny to me.

Speaker:

Like I can't take it seriously.

Speaker:

Like at least it's not like jigsaw where they put an action cam on him when he

Speaker:

goes around the corner,

Speaker:

but this one,

Speaker:

we just have jigsaw coming down the,

Speaker:

the kind of the hall and he's big enough where it almost looks like they just

Speaker:

have an actor in there.

Speaker:

Just I'm surprised they've never done that.

Speaker:

He seems noticeably bigger this time around.

Speaker:

So I,

Speaker:

I know it's supposed to be spooky,

Speaker:

scary,

Speaker:

but inside my head the whole time,

Speaker:

I'm just giggling like,

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Oh my God,

Speaker:

they have a Billy puppet,

Speaker:

man.

Speaker:

I mean,

Speaker:

I guess in some way it's supposed to be a little bit camp.

Speaker:

Just,

Speaker:

yeah,

Speaker:

I'm sure it is to some degree.

Speaker:

I just like more stationary one per way better.

Speaker:

The version from two where the tricycle looks like it's on wires and it just

Speaker:

kind of gets yanked over and it has like the cheap Halloween soundboard

Speaker:

ghoul laugh when he moves the legs.

Speaker:

But a TV Billy is always the best.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

When he's more stationary,

Speaker:

that's,

Speaker:

that's when I can buy him being creepy.

Speaker:

Anytime he moves,

Speaker:

the illusion is broken for me.

Speaker:

Billy is supposed to be jigsaw whenever he appears on video.

Speaker:

This fucking kid.

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

I'm time to play soccer at night again.

Speaker:

This kid must be so goddamn bored.

Speaker:

All he does is just kick that soccer ball to the exact same spot in the same

Speaker:

building.

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

he does that at area 51.

Speaker:

Sometimes they'll leave a candy bar out there.

Speaker:

This,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

this kid actually grows up to be saber tooth.

Speaker:

Also,

Speaker:

Dr.

Speaker:

Peterson going full arch at this point.

Speaker:

We're like,

Speaker:

well,

Speaker:

we should also murder a child.

Speaker:

I think that'll,

Speaker:

that'll tie this up nicely.

Speaker:

Like what?

Speaker:

You can just kill this guy right now.

Speaker:

You don't have to bring in a child.

Speaker:

I like this character.

Speaker:

I,

Speaker:

I think this is the one thing that's dangerous to me because the movie dips a

Speaker:

little into schmaltz with jigsaw being like,

Speaker:

Carlos,

Speaker:

you're a warrior.

Speaker:

And the,

Speaker:

the respect jigsaw has for this small boy,

Speaker:

it gets,

Speaker:

it gets a little too sappy sentimental for me.

Speaker:

You said that about everything that gets sentimental though.

Speaker:

That's true.

Speaker:

I mean,

Speaker:

everyone has different quotients for how much they can take,

Speaker:

but in a soft film,

Speaker:

I feel like you can't put much in before it feels very at odds with

Speaker:

everything else in the movie.

Speaker:

See,

Speaker:

I would say that about any other entry,

Speaker:

but I feel like I see,

Speaker:

I love,

Speaker:

how traditional this movie is in its schmaltziness and the way it handles

Speaker:

emotion.

Speaker:

It feels almost transgressive to me.

Speaker:

Like John walks away from this movie with a ward and a girl on his arm.

Speaker:

Like he's an action hero.

Speaker:

Like he's,

Speaker:

he's given the traditional Hollywood happy ending with all of these

Speaker:

signifiers that come with it.

Speaker:

And it's very,

Speaker:

very wrong.

Speaker:

And it's not how a saw movie should,

Speaker:

should end.

Speaker:

And it makes no sense narratively for where John's story is going

Speaker:

immediately after this.

Speaker:

And I think that's like the brilliance of it.

Speaker:

It's,

Speaker:

it's a middle finger to storytelling convention and it's perfect for a

Speaker:

series.

Speaker:

That's all about telling things out of order.

Speaker:

And the,

Speaker:

the truth,

Speaker:

the truth that can be found from seeing things out of order.

Speaker:

Like there's something,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

wait a minute,

Speaker:

you're just describing a memento.

Speaker:

There's something kind of beautiful about taking a snapshot of a very

Speaker:

tragic character and going,

Speaker:

okay,

Speaker:

if,

Speaker:

if we stop paying attention to his story right here,

Speaker:

it's happily ever after.

Speaker:

And particularly doing that with a villain character,

Speaker:

like it's,

Speaker:

it's really interesting to me.

Speaker:

You could have done one good thing.

Speaker:

I think that is like this being like this weird bump in jigsaw story where

Speaker:

he kind of did a positive thing inadvertently in the middle of this.

Speaker:

And it's something that he didn't plan to do.

Speaker:

Just kind of fascinating.

Speaker:

Like he didn't expect Carlos to show up.

Speaker:

This has nothing to do with anything,

Speaker:

but then he ends up giving Carlos the money and,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

so I just,

Speaker:

this is the difference between jigsaw and myself.

Speaker:

I sure.

Speaker:

Maybe give Carlos some of the money,

Speaker:

but I also would have been like,

Speaker:

well,

Speaker:

I have to deduct my,

Speaker:

my expenses.

Speaker:

I had to build a Billy puppet.

Speaker:

I had to fly Amanda down.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I gave her like $150,000 of my own money in the down payment.

Speaker:

Uh,

Speaker:

I'm going to,

Speaker:

I'm going to skim a little off the top and the kid,

Speaker:

we can go halfsies.

Speaker:

Maybe.

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

jigsaw kept a finder's fee.

Speaker:

I think it's only fair.

Speaker:

I was in the situation.

Speaker:

It's like,

Speaker:

I'm not going to go to Mexico and lose money on this endeavor.

Speaker:

You know,

Speaker:

we we've talked a little bit over the commentaries about the debt that saw

Speaker:

owes to the abominable Dr.

Speaker:

Fibes films.

Speaker:

And Mike,

Speaker:

I'm curious if you agree,

Speaker:

do you get extremely fives rises again?

Speaker:

Vibes from the end of this movie?

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

definitely.

Speaker:

Like all it's missing is him singing somewhere over the,

Speaker:

over the rainbow.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

I am surprised.

Speaker:

No one making the film brought that up.

Speaker:

Cause it feels intentional at times.

Speaker:

Like it,

Speaker:

it feels like a fives movie more than anything else.

Speaker:

This feels like,

Speaker:

um,

Speaker:

fives rises again.

Speaker:

This is extremely nine killed her nine shall pay.

Speaker:

This just makes me sad though,

Speaker:

that Tobin bill has not been used as a modern day Vincent price,

Speaker:

like starting four different horror movies as like the veteran credible actor.

Speaker:

To rise up this whole production.

Speaker:

There was some movie I came across on to be the stars.

Speaker:

Cause right now my Roku just gives me Tobin Bella movies.

Speaker:

Cause I've watched so much saw recently.

Speaker:

Just Tobin Bell.

Speaker:

That's the only thing it suggests.

Speaker:

Uh,

Speaker:

so hold on.

Speaker:

I got to find this.

Speaker:

He's it's like,

Speaker:

um,

Speaker:

a heavy metal horror movie and he's in it.

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

I vaguely remember that.

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

it was a stage fright.

Speaker:

No,

Speaker:

I don't think so.

Speaker:

Hold on.

Speaker:

Um,

Speaker:

also,

Speaker:

getting waterboard boarded by blood is so gnarly raining blood boardings.

Speaker:

Cause they wanted to write that line so bad.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

It's too cool.

Speaker:

Once you say it to not use it.

Speaker:

He stars in clown motel.

Speaker:

I didn't know that.

Speaker:

Hmm.

Speaker:

Going back to like elder Statesman of horror,

Speaker:

like in the,

Speaker:

the olden days where you'd have,

Speaker:

you know,

Speaker:

Christopher Lee and those folks appearing over and over is,

Speaker:

is like the only really dependable one we have right now.

Speaker:

Lynn Shay.

Speaker:

I feel like she's the only one like just pops up in a bunch of horror movies

Speaker:

when they need someone with cred.

Speaker:

Yup.

Speaker:

That's weird.

Speaker:

I mean,

Speaker:

it's great.

Speaker:

We have her.

Speaker:

I love that she's around doing,

Speaker:

you know,

Speaker:

a bunch of insidious movies and all that.

Speaker:

We should have more though.

Speaker:

We should have more distinguished older actors just in fucking everything.

Speaker:

Also,

Speaker:

Jamie,

Speaker:

I completely forgot that Tobin bell was Savitar and Dr.

Speaker:

Alchemy in the flash.

Speaker:

That's right.

Speaker:

I forgot.

Speaker:

I forgot.

Speaker:

What?

Speaker:

What?

Speaker:

What?

Speaker:

What?

Speaker:

This movie has a child waterboarded by choice.

Speaker:

He's doing it to himself.

Speaker:

Don't pull Carlos.

Speaker:

Don't pull.

Speaker:

Just turn your head to the side.

Speaker:

John,

Speaker:

just turn your head to the side.

Speaker:

Little did John know that Carlos had actually stolen a Twix bar a week before.

Speaker:

That'll be saw 11.

Speaker:

Carlos like,

Speaker:

Hey buddy,

Speaker:

you took the money and really you should have given it back.

Speaker:

Cause it wasn't yours.

Speaker:

Uh,

Speaker:

so your next trap will be crushed to death by a thousand pennies.

Speaker:

I like,

Speaker:

I should have said more than a thousand,

Speaker:

but I like to think that Carlos,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

just like manages a best buy.

Speaker:

Now he's fine.

Speaker:

Nothing weird happened after this point.

Speaker:

You just put this behind him.

Speaker:

Like,

Speaker:

yeah,

Speaker:

there's this one weird night where people dumped a bunch of blood on me and I don't speak English.

Speaker:

So I don't know what the deal was.

Speaker:

I cherish my life for entirely healthy reasons.

Speaker:

Then an old man gave me a bag of like a million dollars.

Speaker:

It was fucking wild.

Speaker:

That's crazy.

Speaker:

What the fuck does this kid think is happening?

Speaker:

Carlos grew up and thought he was on an unscripted episode of pure factor.

Speaker:

He thought he just won fear factor and like,

Speaker:

he just forgot to sign a release.

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

I found the movie.

Speaker:

It is 61 highway to hell from 2017.

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

tells the story of Richter scale,

Speaker:

a talentless LA based rock band,

Speaker:

desperate for fame.

Speaker:

That's awesome.

Speaker:

I'm glad that's the name of the band.

Speaker:

I thought that was the name of a character.

Speaker:

I thought they actually named a guy Richter scale.

Speaker:

They are on the verge of breaking up when their manager convinces them.

Speaker:

The only thing standing between them and glory is a pact with the devil.

Speaker:

So they borrow an RV and head out on the infamous crossroads of Mississippi.

Speaker:

But with questions looming,

Speaker:

will the devil actually show up to meet them there?

Speaker:

And more importantly,

Speaker:

will he even want their souls?

Speaker:

A weird plot description.

Speaker:

Anyway,

Speaker:

Tobin Bell plays the devil.

Speaker:

Ah,

Speaker:

well,

Speaker:

that's fun.

Speaker:

Also the classic.

Speaker:

Hello,

Speaker:

Zep.

Speaker:

And our kind of backing twist.

Speaker:

Which,

Speaker:

yeah,

Speaker:

you know,

Speaker:

I wasn't too surprised by this one,

Speaker:

but it works anyway as a movie.

Speaker:

There's some movies where the twist,

Speaker:

if it fails,

Speaker:

the movie fails.

Speaker:

Since this is more of a character study than a lot of the other saws,

Speaker:

it doesn't matter if the twist is seen ahead of time.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

This is more or less just signaling to you like,

Speaker:

oh,

Speaker:

don't worry.

Speaker:

This is the finale of the film.

Speaker:

It's going to be done soon.

Speaker:

Rather than,

Speaker:

like,

Speaker:

trying to shock you,

Speaker:

I guess.

Speaker:

It's not like a spiral where you're just kind of waiting for his partner to show back up.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

See,

Speaker:

Mike did at that time.

Speaker:

It wasn't me.

Speaker:

We did a whole commentary.

Speaker:

People know my thoughts.

Speaker:

I'm just saying I was going to stop shitting on spiral.

Speaker:

And then you're doing one more.

Speaker:

Nobody knows Mike's thoughts.

Speaker:

No one wants to.

Speaker:

Also,

Speaker:

if only Tobin Bell pulled off a bunch of shit on his face,

Speaker:

again,

Speaker:

he was never covered in blood at all.

Speaker:

He was wearing a flesh colored stocking over his face.

Speaker:

Remember Batman and Robin where Robin pulls off the wax lips?

Speaker:

Just him doing that for his entire face just to get the blood off.

Speaker:

Rubber lips are immune to your charms.

Speaker:

Going back to Carlos,

Speaker:

it's going to be very weird when he goes to his dad and he's just soaked head to tail in blood.

Speaker:

And he has a bag of like a million dollars.

Speaker:

And he's gonna be like,

Speaker:

who did you kill,

Speaker:

Carlos?

Speaker:

Who did you kill?

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

not at all.

Speaker:

Not again,

Speaker:

Carlos.

Speaker:

Not again.

Speaker:

Just to go back a moment,

Speaker:

though.

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

boy,

Speaker:

my boy.

Speaker:

I absolutely love the little bit of acting Tobin does where he gets out of the trap and like people are kind of calling at him.

Speaker:

But he has to take a moment to like a recenter himself and apparently focus his mental powers by pressing on his skull.

Speaker:

I just I just like that that little flair because I'm assuming that's an actor idea,

Speaker:

not a director going like,

Speaker:

hey,

Speaker:

what do you like massage away a migraine as your recovery mode?

Speaker:

It's so human.

Speaker:

This really is like everything Tobin Bell has deserved from a movie.

Speaker:

It reminds me.

Speaker:

No,

Speaker:

I don't like the movie,

Speaker:

but it's nice that Red State exists just for a movie that gives everything to Michael Parks.

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker:

it's nice that Parks gets to do his thing.

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker:

I don't love the film.

Speaker:

But it's cool.

Speaker:

He gets to go out there and do so.

Speaker:

Also,

Speaker:

John Goodman's having a little bit of fun in it.

Speaker:

Yeah,

Speaker:

sure.

Speaker:

But,

Speaker:

you know,

Speaker:

mostly Parks.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And I kind of,

Speaker:

I feel that way about this.

Speaker:

Like,

Speaker:

man,

Speaker:

why,

Speaker:

why couldn't we have appreciated Tobin Bell and given him all the things?

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

it's just astounding again to be 10 movies in and still making something that's a viable theatrical product.

Speaker:

Like they haven't scraped the bottom of the well.

Speaker:

They actually in this one do more honor to Tobin Bell than in any of the other entries.

Speaker:

Pretty much.

Speaker:

It's,

Speaker:

it's just wild to get this far in and have things working out so hot,

Speaker:

especially after two failed reboots in a row.

Speaker:

It's astounding to me that the producers stuck to their guns.

Speaker:

And said,

Speaker:

no,

Speaker:

we know this is going to make money.

Speaker:

We know there's a fan base for it.

Speaker:

We're not going to go straight to video.

Speaker:

We're not going to give up.

Speaker:

We're going to recenter ourselves.

Speaker:

We'll just go back to what we know the folks want.

Speaker:

Tobin Bell.

Speaker:

We'll let him kind of take center stage again and we'll see what happens.

Speaker:

I think nine out of 10 times,

Speaker:

if this was a hell raiser situation,

Speaker:

they would have been done.

Speaker:

You know,

Speaker:

they wouldn't have been like,

Speaker:

Hey,

Speaker:

let's do another one that really lets Doug Bradley take over the screen.

Speaker:

They clearly didn't.

Speaker:

They went straight to video.

Speaker:

They eventually stopped bringing him back.

Speaker:

If it was fucking,

Speaker:

I don't know.

Speaker:

Even stuff like tremors eventually went straight to video and started to feel

Speaker:

a little cheaper and further off from what it should have been.

Speaker:

They killed the gummer.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

They,

Speaker:

they,

Speaker:

they stuck true this whole time,

Speaker:

which is astounding.

Speaker:

I never would have thought they'd be like,

Speaker:

no,

Speaker:

no,

Speaker:

no.

Speaker:

We have to recenter on our 80 some year old aging star,

Speaker:

but it was absolutely the right move.

Speaker:

And I got to applaud them for having the guts to do it.

Speaker:

It got people talking about saw again,

Speaker:

for real this time,

Speaker:

not just the,

Speaker:

the kind of,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

but like sideways buzz that jigsaw and spiral had that were more like,

Speaker:

well,

Speaker:

like we're,

Speaker:

we're interested that this movie's happening.

Speaker:

We're not necessarily interested for the movie itself.

Speaker:

People were counting down the days to see this movie.

Speaker:

Shocked me.

Speaker:

I was just,

Speaker:

I was just assumed like,

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

that's gonna,

Speaker:

hopefully that's really good.

Speaker:

Even though it'll bomb,

Speaker:

horribly did not expect saw X to be a cultural event.

Speaker:

Did help that it had one of the greatest trailers ever.

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

of course.

Speaker:

I still watch that sometimes delightful to watch the,

Speaker:

the,

Speaker:

the focus on design too,

Speaker:

for this one.

Speaker:

I don't know if it felt as strong in the previous two movies,

Speaker:

like it didn't have quite the identity that the original saw series had,

Speaker:

but this one going all in like the Aztec death calendar and the kind of things

Speaker:

they did to promote it.

Speaker:

That was,

Speaker:

that way it felt unique,

Speaker:

but still tied into the series.

Speaker:

So it was kind of a stroke of genius there.

Speaker:

Like,

Speaker:

Hey,

Speaker:

it's new,

Speaker:

but it's old.

Speaker:

Not to mention it does help that it's a saw movie with,

Speaker:

you know,

Speaker:

a premise this time.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

It helps that you actually have an elevator pitch for this movie.

Speaker:

That isn't just more saw or saw with a twist.

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

I think they got everyone hooked to,

Speaker:

to,

Speaker:

to go back to the posters,

Speaker:

like the original one of the guy in the eye trap with the tubes crossed.

Speaker:

Like that immediately makes you think like,

Speaker:

okay,

Speaker:

what's going on here?

Speaker:

What's what,

Speaker:

what the fuck is this trap?

Speaker:

How does this work?

Speaker:

What's going on with his eyeballs?

Speaker:

On top of it all.

Speaker:

I mean,

Speaker:

let's face it.

Speaker:

We haven't gotten the saw movie with jigsaws,

Speaker:

the villain since three.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I mean,

Speaker:

four or secondly is sideways,

Speaker:

but you know,

Speaker:

it's focus off of him.

Speaker:

And even in three,

Speaker:

you know,

Speaker:

he's,

Speaker:

he's basically on death's door the whole time.

Speaker:

So it's almost more of an Amanda story.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

This is basically a followup to saw two in a way.

Speaker:

Everything's good.

Speaker:

Now I've got my money.

Speaker:

Goodbye.

Speaker:

Come on,

Speaker:

Billy.

Speaker:

Behind them.

Speaker:

He pulled up a little string.

Speaker:

So unfair.

Speaker:

Whole place explodes.

Speaker:

Problem solved.

Speaker:

Only got John got to walk away from an explosion.

Speaker:

Backwards.

Speaker:

Like Wolverine.

Speaker:

And Kevin Greider talks about this just briefly in his commentary that he wanted to kind of bookend one where it opens with or ends with jigsaw slamming that door and saying game over.

Speaker:

This one feels oddly hopeful.

Speaker:

Like even though he's dying,

Speaker:

it's a start of a new life.

Speaker:

Ignoring the fact that he's gonna go on to kill a lot more people with the door opening to light and leaving it open.

Speaker:

If you ignore all the other movies after this one,

Speaker:

it's a,

Speaker:

it's actually kind of an inspiring,

Speaker:

handy.

Speaker:

But it,

Speaker:

if,

Speaker:

if there was one movie that was a singular John story,

Speaker:

then it ending in like a weirdly positive light where it's like John kind of did a good thing.

Speaker:

And for him,

Speaker:

this was kind of a fulfilling story.

Speaker:

That makes sense.

Speaker:

Then he goes back to him just like to everybody else.

Speaker:

He's a fucking serial killer.

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

that's a Carlos,

Speaker:

but to John,

Speaker:

he's kind of content in that moment.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

It's got his little family with them.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

He taught some people the value of not doing scams.

Speaker:

It was a good day.

Speaker:

I wish he brought Carlos back to the States.

Speaker:

It's just,

Speaker:

it's,

Speaker:

it's jigsaw.

Speaker:

He finally has a kid who hasn't been crushed in a doorway.

Speaker:

The kids got auntie Amanda and uncle Hoffman.

Speaker:

Mike,

Speaker:

be careful.

Speaker:

They're,

Speaker:

they're making saw 11 right now.

Speaker:

We have to assume it's,

Speaker:

it's that shortly after this one.

Speaker:

Let me make it only has months left.

Speaker:

Let me make it.

Speaker:

I want to,

Speaker:

I want to do this.

Speaker:

All we know.

Speaker:

They just took Carlos with them back to the United States.

Speaker:

And he's like the fifth secret apprentice.

Speaker:

He's been,

Speaker:

he's been hanging out with talk.

Speaker:

Speaking of

Speaker:

so someone to let me,

Speaker:

how the fuck is this trap supposed to work?

Speaker:

It doesn't work.

Speaker:

Or is it just like,

Speaker:

we need to like a scary looking thing and let's call it a day.

Speaker:

I don't know.

Speaker:

I mean,

Speaker:

it's,

Speaker:

he's supposed to,

Speaker:

I guess,

Speaker:

dig into,

Speaker:

to his own stomach.

Speaker:

And I assume he's supposed to like press it down and kind of flex it.

Speaker:

So that way it crawl it like the,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

the tendrils of it kind of like start digging into his stomach where his,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

fake scar was.

Speaker:

It's very hell razor.

Speaker:

Random.

Speaker:

Hoffman looking weirdly the same.

Speaker:

I'm just saying,

Speaker:

this is like a very intricate kind of trap digger thing.

Speaker:

It's like,

Speaker:

just,

Speaker:

just give him a knife and tell him he's got to cut his guts out.

Speaker:

I love that this line was in the trailer and we still didn't know it was Hoffman.

Speaker:

Also Hoffman said,

Speaker:

epic bad luck,

Speaker:

which wasn't an expression when this movie takes place,

Speaker:

which means Hoffman invented it.

Speaker:

I love that Hoffman's last line is stupid.

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

he said the line.

Speaker:

It's like at this point,

Speaker:

there's something between the,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

the,

Speaker:

the,

Speaker:

the optimistic door opening and then one last visit with Hoffman.

Speaker:

And it feels like the series is saying goodbye to box office pulp.

Speaker:

It does.

Speaker:

It's like when we got to the end of crime watch 1994 on pulp nightmare.

Speaker:

And we saw OJ was here in the last episode of American crime story.

Speaker:

It's like,

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

we have gone.

Speaker:

We have gone on a journey.

Speaker:

Haven't we?

Speaker:

This did feel like a,

Speaker:

a reward for us for everything we've put up with so far.

Speaker:

I'm free.

Speaker:

There's no more Malort in my future.

Speaker:

You didn't have Malort today.

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

I didn't have any Malort.

Speaker:

You had Malort.

Speaker:

That's true.

Speaker:

I'm out.

Speaker:

I used literally the last drop I had to find out.

Speaker:

Jamie likes Malort by the way.

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

you can send yours to Jamie.

Speaker:

I'm glad I got to spread Malort to the East coast.

Speaker:

I ate all three of those warheads.

Speaker:

And the taste,

Speaker:

the taste of Malort is still in my mouth.

Speaker:

It doesn't leave.

Speaker:

I,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

I grabbed a Tums.

Speaker:

I chewed a Tums.

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

gone.

Speaker:

Wow.

Speaker:

I never,

Speaker:

it never considered Tums.

Speaker:

I do wish there was an extra after credit scene.

Speaker:

I don't know what it would be,

Speaker:

but I just for the fuck of it,

Speaker:

a full fan service,

Speaker:

just like two after credit scenes.

Speaker:

There's,

Speaker:

there's like a weird Mandela thing happening to me.

Speaker:

Cause I really thought the deleted scene of Peterson pulling her head out of

Speaker:

that tube was the second after credit scene,

Speaker:

but it's,

Speaker:

it's just a deleted scene.

Speaker:

On the DVD.

Speaker:

I don't know why I thought that was like actually part of the movie.

Speaker:

It's heavily implied that happens 30 seconds later.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And I'm pretty sure I like have my suspicions.

Speaker:

She's really going to be the focus of the next one.

Speaker:

Probably.

Speaker:

I mean,

Speaker:

and probably like all scarred up from the gas.

Speaker:

She's going to be like,

Speaker:

kind of like backwards jigsaw be fun.

Speaker:

Uh,

Speaker:

fragile from a death stranding.

Speaker:

I'm curious again.

Speaker:

I don't know who the writers are.

Speaker:

They had this one in their back pocket for,

Speaker:

for years so they could kind of refine it and think about it until a spiral

Speaker:

popped up and they decided to switch course.

Speaker:

I'm terrified.

Speaker:

So what are they going to do when they have less than a year to pump out

Speaker:

another one?

Speaker:

I'm very,

Speaker:

there's actually a decent amount of turnover in some of like the returning

Speaker:

crew is at least a preexisting script.

Speaker:

Cause I'm just,

Speaker:

I do not like how we've gone back to it's Halloween.

Speaker:

So it must be saw.

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

now it's September.

Speaker:

So I guess it's not even a Halloween thing.

Speaker:

So yeah,

Speaker:

it's taking less time now.

Speaker:

Um,

Speaker:

well,

Speaker:

I mean,

Speaker:

September is September.

Speaker:

It's an equal amount of time,

Speaker:

but,

Speaker:

but I just,

Speaker:

you don't have to do it every year.

Speaker:

I agree.

Speaker:

We'll book of saw again,

Speaker:

at least.

Speaker:

Rushing it is bad,

Speaker:

but on the other hand,

Speaker:

Tobin Bell is not getting any younger.

Speaker:

So if you want to just make as much as you can with him,

Speaker:

we've seen some pretty bad saw movies without him.

Speaker:

Let's,

Speaker:

let's get some mediocre ones with him or even ones if we're lucky.

Speaker:

Just my heart can't take anymore.

Speaker:

I just,

Speaker:

I just don't know what,

Speaker:

like,

Speaker:

I'm very curious.

Speaker:

If it's,

Speaker:

if it's a,

Speaker:

if it's a,

Speaker:

if it's a script that was floating around,

Speaker:

does it include John in a major way?

Speaker:

Is it another prequel or is it another fucking like a apprentice spinoff?

Speaker:

They've kind of implied it's directly,

Speaker:

it's a direct sequel to X.

Speaker:

I,

Speaker:

they,

Speaker:

they've kind of implied,

Speaker:

yeah,

Speaker:

Peterson might be back,

Speaker:

which would kind of imply it's right after this.

Speaker:

Cause if they wait any longer,

Speaker:

John will be dead.

Speaker:

Um,

Speaker:

along with everyone else,

Speaker:

he actually cared about,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

getting revenge on,

Speaker:

but they've also said a few things about like kind of jokingly,

Speaker:

like,

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

if we keep doing these,

Speaker:

we're going to get to tell the rest of Hoffman's story,

Speaker:

which,

Speaker:

which seemed more like a joke.

Speaker:

Like if these are still successful,

Speaker:

eventually we can't just keep doing in between movies and we'll have to

Speaker:

advance the plot.

Speaker:

So I don't know.

Speaker:

I'm,

Speaker:

I'm so curious.

Speaker:

I guess we have to wait until the trailer comes out in a couple of months

Speaker:

here.

Speaker:

I mean,

Speaker:

honestly,

Speaker:

if the,

Speaker:

if the sequels stay good,

Speaker:

like if the next one's on this level of quality and they're able to do

Speaker:

that and set up how the saw series can then go forward into the

Speaker:

presence in a,

Speaker:

a way that makes sense and continue on past John's death.

Speaker:

I don't know how you do though.

Speaker:

I don't know how either,

Speaker:

but you're left with cheating and saying Hoffman survived.

Speaker:

And that's like,

Speaker:

no,

Speaker:

it's not.

Speaker:

There is no more Hoffman.

Speaker:

Even if Hoffman's alive,

Speaker:

that is not how you continue the series.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

But like,

Speaker:

you're not going to go back to Logan and you're probably not going to go

Speaker:

back to spiral.

Speaker:

What the,

Speaker:

what the fuck do you do?

Speaker:

I'm sorry.

Speaker:

I don't know.

Speaker:

I think they're still in the same box there before.

Speaker:

Evil Carlos.

Speaker:

Evil Carlos.

Speaker:

I'm telling you,

Speaker:

they just,

Speaker:

do an alternate universe where after this one,

Speaker:

they just ignore everything from saw one onward.

Speaker:

And they,

Speaker:

they just do a weird saw timeline of one,

Speaker:

10,

Speaker:

11,

Speaker:

12.

Speaker:

Superboy prime punches the source wall and.

Speaker:

Oh no.

Speaker:

Races Hoffman from existence.

Speaker:

God,

Speaker:

I had,

Speaker:

I'd actually forgotten.

Speaker:

That's how they just rewrote a lot of DC.

Speaker:

I,

Speaker:

that I had spaced that out of my mind.

Speaker:

And now it's right back to this goddamn Superboy punching continuity in the

Speaker:

face.

Speaker:

52 is like three years later.

Speaker:

That,

Speaker:

that,

Speaker:

that was,

Speaker:

how Jason Todd was,

Speaker:

was canonically brought back from the dead for like eight years until they

Speaker:

retconned that.

Speaker:

We don't have anything better.

Speaker:

So we're going to go with it.

Speaker:

Just Superboy punched time and he woke up in his grave.

Speaker:

What the fuck?

Speaker:

One of the dumbest pages of a comic book I've ever read.

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

the important thing is we have survived 10 saw movies.

Speaker:

We didn't get into saw the video game.

Speaker:

I feel like if we ever do a,

Speaker:

like a Twitch stream,

Speaker:

we got to,

Speaker:

we got to,

Speaker:

we got to set that up and do it.

Speaker:

I was still all for it.

Speaker:

It would be fun.

Speaker:

If you'd like to give box office pulp too much money to set up a streaming

Speaker:

studio,

Speaker:

you can send your money too.

Speaker:

And then I just list my entire credit card and get scammed.

Speaker:

And then we go through the plot of this movie,

Speaker:

but in Wisconsin.

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

and you lose all of your kidneys,

Speaker:

all of them.

Speaker:

You can sound like you have more than two.

Speaker:

No,

Speaker:

I didn't tell you the story.

Speaker:

Uh,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

my mom worked at Keenan house.

Speaker:

This place.

Speaker:

And when people would get new kidneys,

Speaker:

like they wouldn't cut the old ones out.

Speaker:

Like if you had a bum kidney,

Speaker:

they wouldn't remove it.

Speaker:

And then give you the new kidney.

Speaker:

They would just kind of attach the new one to the same.

Speaker:

Like really?

Speaker:

So there would be people walking around that had like two or three failed

Speaker:

kidney transplants.

Speaker:

And so they were just stuffed with kidneys.

Speaker:

I didn't know that.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Apparently it's like more of a risk to take them out sometimes.

Speaker:

So they'll just leave them in and splice the new one into like the same

Speaker:

system.

Speaker:

That must feel so weird.

Speaker:

Much.

Speaker:

I imagine those people are just very lumpy.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I don't like that.

Speaker:

No,

Speaker:

no.

Speaker:

I like to tell that as my not fun facts when I'm meeting people at

Speaker:

parties,

Speaker:

which explains why I don't have friends.

Speaker:

That's,

Speaker:

that's very bad.

Speaker:

So yeah,

Speaker:

just think there's a,

Speaker:

who knows?

Speaker:

Probably tons of people out there right now with too many organs

Speaker:

stuffed in their body.

Speaker:

I'd like more spleens.

Speaker:

Uh,

Speaker:

why?

Speaker:

Just to,

Speaker:

just to say I have more spleens.

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

I was trying to do a nice way to wrap this up and I don't know how

Speaker:

we got the kidneys,

Speaker:

but,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

folks,

Speaker:

thank you for sticking with us for this entire commentary series.

Speaker:

We finally did one all the way through.

Speaker:

Just imagine there's balloons falling on,

Speaker:

If you would like more of this,

Speaker:

obviously we have all those other commentaries.

Speaker:

You can go back and listen to as much as you want.

Speaker:

Uh,

Speaker:

we have tons of other commentaries.

Speaker:

Occasionally we actually do episodes that are just discussing movies

Speaker:

that are not formatted this rigidly,

Speaker:

but who has the time to go find all those and who even knows where

Speaker:

they are.

Speaker:

I can't wait to do that again.

Speaker:

We've been doing nothing but saw for so long.

Speaker:

It's been 84 years,

Speaker:

but folks,

Speaker:

you actually can find more of those things at box office,

Speaker:

pulp.com.

Speaker:

We are on Google music.

Speaker:

We are on iTunes.

Speaker:

We are on Spotify and you can even send us weird letters at box office,

Speaker:

pulp at Gmail.

Speaker:

If you feel so inclined,

Speaker:

I don't know if we ever checked that account.

Speaker:

So,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

you're probably better off actually contacting us on Twitter at box office,

Speaker:

pulp or Facebook at box office,

Speaker:

pulp.

Speaker:

Just,

Speaker:

just always check box office,

Speaker:

pulp.

Speaker:

That's the key.

Speaker:

We're all in blue sky too.

Speaker:

Oh yeah,

Speaker:

that's right.

Speaker:

But on our individual names.

Speaker:

So you make a pop on there.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

It's open to everyone now,

Speaker:

so we can just do that.

Speaker:

We don't have to wait for referral codes,

Speaker:

which means I have an extra referral code that matters.

Speaker:

Worthless.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Kind of bums me out.

Speaker:

Eh,

Speaker:

what are you going to do?

Speaker:

You should have sold Mike when the market was high.

Speaker:

Anyways,

Speaker:

folks,

Speaker:

thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker:

This has been box office,

Speaker:

pulp,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

liver,

Speaker:

die,

Speaker:

et cetera.

Speaker:

Choose,

Speaker:

choose,

Speaker:

choose,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

get the hell out of here.

Speaker:

You get more out of life when you go out to a movie.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Did anyone look at,

Speaker:

and this is going to be an awful post-credit tags is just us discussing business.

Speaker:

Uh,

Speaker:

did anyone look at the,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

messenger notice we got to the other day from box office pulp?

Speaker:

Oh yeah.

Speaker:

I saw that.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

It was a guy offering to grow our business.

Speaker:

Hey,

Speaker:

that totally didn't sound like a scam.

Speaker:

Not at all.

Speaker:

Oh no,

Speaker:

Mike,

Speaker:

we could have had our own interactive saw X experience.

Speaker:

We could have gotten scammed for the show.

Speaker:

That would have been worth it.

Speaker:

The tie in.

Speaker:

We could have done merchandising tie ins for that with us,

Speaker:

without any of our organs merchandising tie ins.

Speaker:

I liked the idea of,

Speaker:

I got scammed and all I got was this t-shirt.

Speaker:

Yes,

Speaker:

we should actually sell that.

Speaker:

I got ripped off by box office,

Speaker:

Paul.

Speaker:

And all I got was this t-shirt,

Speaker:

but it's a white shirt written in Sharpie by us with a white Sharpie.

Speaker:

Uh,

Speaker:

it looks exactly like the mail I sent you.

Speaker:

There's just a square box that says,

Speaker:

play me written over the belly.

Speaker:

Just out of curiosity,

Speaker:

how much did it cost to sell it?

Speaker:

How much did it cost to send this?

Speaker:

Uh,

Speaker:

$5 a person.

Speaker:

It's not bad.

Speaker:

No,

Speaker:

no,

Speaker:

not at all.

Speaker:

The cards were more expensive.

Speaker:

Uh,

Speaker:

and if you want to reuse the cards,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

if you push down the two little knobs inside of it,

Speaker:

uh,

Speaker:

until it beeps,

Speaker:

you can record a 40 second long message and you can do that as many times as you want until

Speaker:

the battery runs out.

Speaker:

No,

Speaker:

I don't,

Speaker:

I don't want to,

Speaker:

I don't want to ever erase you.

Speaker:

If you die,

Speaker:

this is my only recording of you.

Speaker:

Cause I wouldn't then,

Speaker:

after you,

Speaker:

after your death,

Speaker:

erased box office,

Speaker:

this would be the only recording of you.

Speaker:

I'm like,

Speaker:

besides the 10 years of recording episodes we've done together.

Speaker:

Nope.

Speaker:

Cody's dead.

Speaker:

Time to erase him from existence.

Speaker:

Throw it all out.

Speaker:

Burn it down,

Speaker:

boys.

Speaker:

Uh,

Speaker:

whenever I'm speaking at your funeral,

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I'm just going to approach the microphone and be like,

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uh,

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Cody,

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uh,

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asked me to say a few words for,

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uh,

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such an occasion.

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Meanwhile,

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you're just guzzling Malora in the background.

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I really appreciate how the recorded card,

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uh,

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makes the audio sound shitty enough to BSL recording.

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Like I heard that.

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I'm like,

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this is fucking aces.

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Like it really,

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it really just sounds inside of a jar.

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Yeah,

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I had,

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you wouldn't believe how hard it was to record that.

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Cause you have to be pushing down with both hands to record the car.

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And I'm also trying to start the music by using my elbow,

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my mouse,

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the play button on Spotify.

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And to do all this too,

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I had to take the speaker on my computer and put it right next to the mouse.

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So then I can hold the card up next to it.

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So it'd pick up the sounds of Spotify.

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So just imagine me hunched over my computer,

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like my hands in front of me,

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like a T-Rex clicking this thing and then hitting the mouse,

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but like the mouse sliding off course and not clicking on anything.

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So I have to restart.

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I had to do this like fucking 10 times per card.

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You're doing all this while the saw theme plays over and over.

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And I'm like,

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it's gotta be the first 45 seconds.

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Cause then I know where I am in the recording so I can finish on time.

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And it actually like,

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it's the right spot.

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It sounds correct on the recording.

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Anything later.

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And it sounds wrong.

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It was,

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it was an actual endeavor.

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It was a pain in the ass to do this.

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I want you to know something.

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Eventually the rest of the Malort in this bottle is going to find its way back

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to you.

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And I want you,

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don't threaten me.

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Just give it to friends or enemies at home.

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This is in the back of your brain.

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Just,

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just bring your family over and be like,

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everyone,

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I need you to try the worst thing in the world.

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Just a sip.

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No,

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he's going to send it to you in a box containing the Houdini DVD.

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Just,

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just,

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I don't know,

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get to Matt or somebody.

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Go give it to,

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give it to other folk.

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Mike,

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you'd make me the happiest person in the world.

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If you actually combed through the last commentary and took out the moment

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where I mentioned like,

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Oh,

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I have these two bottles and spliced it into this.

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Like,

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these might come in handy later.

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Once I did that,

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I was so mad at myself for not seeding this idea into all of the episodes.

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And then you get your,

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finally your,

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your game over moments.

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Yeah.

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It's just video of me slamming the lid down on an empty bottle of Malort and then tripping

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and falling off of my balcony to my death.

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Over game.

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Oh God.

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It's a Homer Simpson,

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jumping Springfield Gorge.

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It's a,

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it's a,

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it's a,

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it's a,

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it's a,

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it's a,

Speaker:

it's a,

Speaker:

it's a,

Speaker:

it's a,

Speaker:

it's a,

Speaker:

it's a,

Speaker:

it's a,

Speaker:

it's a,

Speaker:

it's a,

Speaker:

it's a,

Speaker:

it's a,

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it's a,

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it's a,

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it's a,

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a 전면 순간

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Please remember to replace the speaker on the post when you leave the theatre.

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Okay.

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