With the Oscars behind us, many are taking a second look at the remarkable stories from last year that have been tragically overlooked by the academy. Tonight, Box Office Pulp would like to spotlight one such story, that of a humble engineer who forgot to cherish the little things, until a surprise diagnosis introduced him to a new hobby, a new gal, and a new lease on life. Before he can finish his life's work, though, he must rail against an uncaring medical system and stop the exploitative business practices of a corrupt institution, or else this will be one jigsaw puzzle left unsolved! In their final BOP n' A Movie audio commentary track on the series-- until next year, sat least-- the crew have finally reached Saw X, the John/Amanda reunion America didn't know it wanted. Tobin Bell and Shawnee Smith are back in the playhouse, the script is free to set up absolutely nothing for a sequel, and there's an actual budget this time around, so does the THIRD return of a franchise that doesn't believe in letting itself die finally recapture the gruesome magic fans have been longing for since the original trilogy? If the words "we have a rope" mean anything to you, then you already know the answer!

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How do you do?

The box office pulp board feels it would be a little unkind to present this podcast without just a word of friendly warning.

We're about to unfold a cinematic commentary track,

made by a group of men who sought to create a podcast after their own ravings,

without reckoning upon God.

It is one of the strangest tales ever told.

It deals with three great mysteries of the internet.

Analysis, observation, and deconstruction.

I think it will thrill you.

It may shock you.

It might even horrify you.

So if any of you feel you'd not care to subject your nerves to such a strain,

now's your chance to...

Well, we've warned you.

Now, to pause and refresh.

For your convenience, we have an attractive refreshment stand in the lobby,

with buttered popcorn, golden good and hot from the popper,

your favorite candies, wholesome and rich,

plus delicious Dr. Pepper,

so bright and bracing, with a tang and tingle unmatched by any other beverage.

Enjoy an ice-cold Dr. Pepper at our beverage stand right now,

and then return to fully appreciate this pop and a movie commentary track.

Enjoy.

We have a rope.

Welcome to Box Office Pulp, your one-stop podcast for movies, madness, moxie,

and tonight, I'm so happy I could cry,

because we're finally on the last Saw movie,

until Saw 11 hits theaters later this year.

But we've reached the end of the road for now,

and that's something to be proud of.

And if we make it through, we've survived the entire Saw gauntlet.

All ten movies.

And I'm pretty proud of us for doing that.

Anyways, I'm your host, Cody.

Joining me today are my co-host, Mike.

Say hello, Mike.

So I know we're at the, um, you know, end of the whole series and stuff for this,

but, um, I just had a suggestion for whenever you do your movie facts, Cody.

Yes.

Um, you should call them Jiggies.

Jiggies.

Yeah.

Um, I know, like, we've already done nine of these,

so it doesn't make any sense now,

but retroactively, I would like it to count,

so that way it feels like the audience has been collecting Jiggies this whole time,

which is a vague Banjo-Kazooie reference.

So it's kind of like a double.

Yeah.

Nope, I got that.

I got that.

Unfortunately, it also kind of sounds like I'm presenting a knockoff Oscar.

Like, here are the Jiggies.

A Jiggy sounds like an Oscar for jacking off.

Like, specifically, who jacked off the best.

I mean, there's a lot of ways you could assign that award.

It could be, uh...

Who's jacking off someone else the best?

Who's jacking off themselves the best?

Oh, I assume there's multiple categories.

Sure, sure.

Longest distance, most viscosity.

What are we here for?

Oh, right, Saw.

Anyways, say hello to my other co-host, Jamie.

Hello, Jamie.

When you played Banjo-Kazooie,

did you also have a visceral hatred for the Jinjos?

Oh, yes.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

Fuck those guys.

Like that, I always think of that tweet that's like,

if my friends and I had found E.T.

as kids, we would have beaten them to death with hammers.

That's how I felt about Jinjos.

Like, I wanted to rip them apart like they were gummy bears.

Just go full McCready and the thing on those things.

Just pull out the flamethrower.

There's something psychologically deep being exposed here

that I don't know we should have told the public about.

But, yeah, fuck those guys.

They do seem delicious, yeah, now that I think about it.

You know, I never thought about eating them.

Just murdering them.

And neither did I until right now.

Did you ever watch the Banjo-Kazooie promotional VHS

that Nintendo sent out that was narrated by John Lovitz?

That's a classic.

What?

No, you're making shit up.

You're pulling my leg.

He says Gruntilda.

I'm looking this up online because I don't believe you.

It's online.

Be sure to ask your parents for Banjo-Kazooie,

the newest hit game for the Nintendo 64.

From Rare Studios.

It's so fucking surreal.

Like, as a child, it was surreal to watch.

And then they gave him a bag of money.

OMG, Alice.

Yeah, no, according to JiggyWiki.com,

there is, in fact, a Banjo-Kazooie promo video with John Lovitz.

They sent that in the mail.

It just showed up at your house.

Like the ring tape?

Like, if you just see it seven days later,

he crawls out of your TV and strangles you?

That's how I got mine.

I believe it was gold, too.

If I remember correctly.

Wow.

There is a full rip on YouTube.

I'm not going to watch this now.

I'm going to put that away for later.

But I learned so much talking to you guys.

It's amazing.

It's a little late night treat for yourself later.

Yeah, a little snack.

You can hear Lovitz promote the password system

for Banjo-Kazooie 2 that was never implemented.

Oh.

Unfortunately, we slightly moved past my segue,

but I was going to say, speaking of treats,

Mike, Jamie, both of you have

mysterious questions.

Mysterious packages that were mailed to you.

I think now would be the time

to open your packages.

Yay.

I just want to describe this first.

I got this mysterious package,

Jamie, as well.

It's on the back.

It says, do not open until

saw X commentary.

The visceral fear I felt

when I read that word.

Good, good.

Hearing my girlfriend say,

you have a package

from Cody with the same

delivery as,

there's a girl in the garden.

She's still in her fucking blood as well.

There's someone at the door.

Oh, I'm not happy.

I'm not happy.

Alright.

I'm going in.

I'm going in.

Oh, God.

Emma marks the spot.

Oh, Jesus.

There's a lot to say.

God damn it.

Alright.

Cody, which do you open first?

The envelope or the package?

The envelope.

Okay.

I'll do it in the assigned order.

This is what happens

when you're drunk on Malort, isn't it?

I was dead sober, Mike.

Oh, my God.

I was not chained down by the Malort.

I can't believe you.

Okay.

For the folks at home,

we have an envelope

with a little,

a little Billy

drawn on it.

God damn it.

Ludicrously done, too.

That's this from the heart, Mike.

I put time and effort into that.

Okay.

Do we open the envelope now?

Yes.

It's the same message

for both of you

with just your names different,

to be honest.

Alright.

I'm going to open it.

It is a talking envelope.

It says,

play me on it.

All right.

I'm going to see if hopefully

the mic picks this up.

If not, I'll put it in post.

Hello, Mike.

For far too long,

you've been content

to sit back and watch

as your co-host

has consumed shot

after shot

of vile poison

for the entertainment

of your listeners.

Today,

you will learn to value

an untainted palette

inside this

package

is a vial

of Jepson's Malort.

Before the commentary

for Saw 10

can truly begin,

let's balance

the scales of entertainment

by sampling

this liquid carnage.

When faced with Malort,

will you have

the will to live,

drink or die, Mike?

The choice is yours.

Let the games

begin.

Like how it just

abruptly cuts off.

It goes for 40 seconds.

They said 45

on the package,

so I thought

I'd have like

five more seconds

and then just stop.

But luckily,

I was done talking,

so it worked out.

Do I just sit here

and then listen?

And then,

and then,

and then play back

my identical tape?

You're just Jamie.

It's slightly different.

It was personalized.

I was really taken

with the flashing lights

as these.

Mine was already

in the on position,

so I think the battery

ran out.

No, it's supposed

to stay on.

That's how it was

already on there.

OK, they claim

that battery will last

for years, Jamie.

It's a fucking vile.

But you still wrote

M on.

You can sit back

and watch

as your co-host

has consumed

shot after shot

of vile poison

for the entertainment

of your listeners.

Today,

you will learn

to value

an untainted palette.

Inside this package

is a vial

of Jepson's Malort.

Before the commentary

for Sawtech

can truly begin,

you must balance

the scales of entertainment

by sampling

the Vial of Jepson's Malort.

This liquid carnage

when faced with Mord,

will you have

the will to live,

drink, or die, Jamie?

The choice is yours.

Let the game

begin.

OK, Mike,

I think we may have

missed something,

so play your card again.

We do this

for three hours.

No, not yours.

Now we open

both at the same time.

Bum, bum, bum.

Cody, write this down.

No, no, see,

oh, no.

You just have to

drink the Malort.

We get Jigsaw on the phone.

You just have to

drink the Malort.

We need to clear

a few things up.

The thing that says M.

The package said

M marks the spot.

Drink the M.

Also, to be kind,

it's not just

Jepson's Malort.

I threw some

warheads in there.

Oh, boy.

You know,

like a little palette cleanser.

I'm so glad

I filled my water bottle

before doing this.

It won't help.

Also,

I'm,

I'm very proud of

this little callback.

Viewers,

if you go and listen

to our previous

commentary for Spiral,

there's a moment

where I finish

my awful drink

and I say,

oh, thank God

I can move on

to these

two shots

of coconut rum

and I make a big point

out of finishing them

and saying,

this might come

in handy later.

Those are the very same

vials you're drinking

out of now.

I can't get the cap off.

I'm terrified

of putting too much

effort in it

because if I spill it,

my office will smell

like Malort forever.

I did super glue

them shut

so they wouldn't

leak in the post.

Cody,

how are we supposed

to drink this?

Is this part of the challenge?

Yeah.

You gotta drink it.

I don't care how you do it.

I don't care how you do it.

Just like shotgun it.

I don't care.

Get like a little wrench

or something.

You can,

I bet you can do it.

I believe in you.

All right.

I'm going to go get

tools for this.

Tell them it's

Chicago's finest.

Jamie's still trying

to open the bottle.

I haven't heard

back from her.

So yes,

there might be

some slight editing

on this.

There's going to be

some editing area.

You're cutting

everything else around

and it's just going

to be us vamping

until Jamie comes back

and either says

I gave up on trying

to open the Malort

or my house is

covered in Malort.

I was exploded

like that one time

Homer opened

that shook beer.

Okay.

I want the folks

at home to know

that I had to go

to my laundry

room and get

my hedge clippers

to cut off

the top of the

Malort bottle

and I got a little

bit on my hand

and I feel like

the innocent

farmer's daughter

in the first act

of a zombie movie

who's you just

know is going

to get a shotgun

blast to the head

by the halfway

point.

Jamie,

I'm imagining

alien when they

first get the blood

on the floor.

It's just like

your skin is

styrofoam and

it's just sinking

right through.

Paul Reiser,

no.

Is this

supposed to

smell like

something I would

normally use

to remove a

chemical of

some kind?

Yeah.

It does smell

a lot like

if you wanted

to like thin

lacquer.

I put a little

goo gone on the

outside to get rid

of the label.

So maybe you're

picking up on that.

But Malort itself

smells very bad.

I'm glad you just

made this as toxic

as possible.

It was on the

outside after I

super glued it.

So I didn't get

inside.

Don't worry.

And I watched

it multiple times.

There was lots of

soap involved.

There should

not be any goo

gone left on the

bottle.

I think you're

actually just

smelling the

Malort.

I definitely

am.

Interesting.

Well, folks,

I didn't make

an official drink

for tonight's

episode.

So please,

please just

oh, I'm drinking

something delicious

on my own.

It's great.

I can kick him

back and enjoy

life.

All right.

On the

count of three,

Jamie.

All right.

One, two,

three.

Oh, God.

That is like

the worst kind

of.

Golf medicine.

Oh,

I've had a

little nip of

moonshine before.

It's not

dissimilar to

that, but

moonshine does

not have that

burn to it.

Hey, Mikey,

I think she

likes it.

You do seem

to be a fan.

I don't know

how about

that.

Jamie sounds

excited about it.

Oh, no, this

is how I the

exact same way I

reacted to that

new spin.

Spiced Coca-Cola

that they have

now.

I found out

about that

recently.

Saying spiced

Coca-Cola just

makes you sound

like a very old

person.

Like, oh, they've

started putting

something new into

sodas, which I

want to make

clear.

I don't mean

that in a good

way.

Just my reaction

to new flavors

is usually like

an anthropologist

encountering a new

tribe.

Oh, fascinating.

By the way, that

spiced Coke is so

fucking weird.

I've never had a

soft drink only

hit certain parts

of my palate

before.

It's got like

cinnamon and clove

in it.

It's weird.

I can taste it on

the front of my

tongue and the

back in the center

of my tongue.

It just tastes like

water and a soft

drink shouldn't be

a psychedelic

experience.

Why is the taste

of the Malort

staying only in the

back of my throat?

It's weird, right?

That's where it

belongs now is it's

made little caves

inside of your

throat and that's

where the Malort

lives.

I do not

recommend anyone

at home drink

for any reason

really, but

especially not

while listening to

Box Office Pulp,

but I like the

idea that anyone

also drinking

Malort right now

is having like a

4D experience

or bonding

right now.

We should just

promote this episode

like one of the

latter day saws

like his legacy

is spreading and

it's just people

drinking Malort

all across the

country.

Wait, wait, I

just we were

talking about this

before recording.

Is this our

version of the

fucking survey

crystal?

I don't think

they would have

as catchy of a

jingle.

Jefferson's Mort

is still a living

thriving company,

but I don't know

if they have a

jingle.

I imagine it'd be

something more like

a heavier rock

sound.

I'll actually be

right back in a

sec.

I'm already out

of a drink.

I need more

of so

because I don't

want to commentate

with this in the

back of my throat.

Good luck.

It'll hang around

for a while.

Yeah, probably

you'll get used

to it.

Stockholm syndrome.

With a drink.

Yeah, you just

forget it's there.

This is a commentary

that has broke

Mike's straight edge

vow.

It's like you cut

the hair of Samson.

Good.

I haven't met his

weakest.

And we should

probably start the

commentary.

Yeah, let's get

around to it.

All right, folks,

you know the rules

by now.

We're going to

count down from

three and then

start playing.

So X, you just

listen to us normal

if you want, though.

I don't care.

Yeah, do what you

want.

All right.

One.

Two.

Three.

Boom.

Old lines date

logo.

Yay.

It should be.

It's got the

goddamn long, but

yeah.

It always makes me

feel like I'm watching

Hellboy, too.

I love it.

Yeah.

Fun memories.

All right, let's

get these jiggies

out of the way.

Directed by Kevin

Greuter.

He's back.

Last time we saw

him, the director

chair was for

Saw 3D back in

2010.

After that, he

directed three

non-Saw related

films.

Jessabelle,

Visions, and

Jackals.

Big on Jays, I

think.

He also edited

Jigsaw.

This entry was

written by Josh

Stahlberg and

Peter Goldfinger

returning from

Spiral.

It's kind of

amazing.

These guys gave

us three very

distinct Saw

movies, and the

phone that finally

caught on and got

the fan base's

approval is their

swan song.

Like, they're not

on the next one.

I don't even know

if they've announced

who the writer for

Saw 11 is yet, but

it's not them.

It was an old

script, so who

knows?

They got so many

pitches in the

off years.

Yeah.

Some of the fan

theories going around

is that Kevin's going

to write, direct, and

edit the next one

all by himself, which

I wouldn't be too

surprised about.

He's been with all

the Saw movies, so

it makes sense he

just write one.

Yeah.

Anyways, our cast,

we've got, as you

can see, Tobin

Bell is back in

like an actual

role instead of

just playing like

cameo roles in a

baseball hat or,

you know, a

detective photo.

That's great.

We also have the

return of Shawnee

Smith.

There's Amanda

Young.

And then, oh no,

I'm so sorry to any

Norwegians who are

listening, but

Sinove Makodi

Lund, I hope I did

that close.

There's like an

accent mark on the

O I'm not sure what

to do with, playing

our villain, Cecilia

Peterson.

Lund has a pretty

small filmography,

only really starring

in three films before

Saw X, but she'd

had very steady

major roles in

television since

2015.

We also have

Stephen Brand as

Parker Sears.

He's a

Mike here will tell

you the most important

thing to know about

Brand is that he

played Memnon in

The Scorpion King.

Although we should

also mention that he

was in Hellraiser

Revelations and was

the big bad boss in

Mayhem.

And most

importantly, above

all else, beyond

Scorpion King, he

was Father Alexander

Anderson in

Hellsing.

So guys got

cred.

Our cinematography

here is by Nick

Matthews.

This was a bit of a

surprise going through

his IMDb.

I didn't see any

previous Saw credits

on his resume.

Most of the time,

the DP is

someone with some

connection to the

franchise, like they've

worked on previous

films, maybe they're a

camera operator and

they were moved up

through the ranks, but

he seems to be a new

face.

Our music is by

Charlie Clouser.

We've got editing by

Kevin Greuter

pulling double duty on

this movie.

Our release date was

September 29th, 2023,

which was a little

bit of an odd move.

Putting it on the

all the way back

before even October

started, but the

movie was a very

big hit.

So what do I know?

It doesn't have to be

October to be Saw.

Blasphemy.

It seems weird, right?

And the next one

started for September

as well.

So they've kind of

just abandoned

October.

If it's back to

school season, it

must be Saw.

If it's Labor Day,

it must be John's

time.

John executes

someone for wearing

white.

Our budget here was

$13 million.

So after the

disappointment of

Spiral, the budget

took a step back

for this entry.

I think that one was

closer to about $20

million.

Although I imagine a

big part of that is

they didn't have to pay

Chris Rock or Samuel

Jackson this time

around.

So you can probably

save a decent amount

of money when you

don't have major

AAA stars.

And for returns,

this movie pulled in

$111.8 million

worldwide.

So really big jump

back into big,

big old profits

considering $13 million

investment.

$112 return.

Not too shabby.

There's our jiggies.

Just in time for

our first trap of the

movie, which I'm of

mixed opinions about.

I'm mixed, but I

ultimately, I'm glad

it's here.

Like on the one hand,

I totally understand

like, oh God, it would

be just conceptually.

It would be so cool

to have a Saw movie

where no Saw thing

happens until like

halfway through the

movie.

But at the same time,

God, it's, there's

something so fascinating

about having a trap

that in addition to,

you know, it's narrative

purpose of just giving

us a little action for

a slow first act also

gives us kind of a look

into John's mind and

his thought process.

That's, that's where

I'm at.

Like,

it's, it's one of those

frustrating, okay, we

need a trap in here to

spice things up.

John, imagine someone

in a trap.

It feels narratively

a little cheap, but

they get out of it by

giving us a little window

into John's thought

process.

You know, we see him

peeking around the

hospital and using that

as inspiration for how

he had tortured this

guy.

It's kind of fascinating

that even in John's

fantasies, the people

fail the traps.

Yes, which says a lot

actually.

Yeah, just, just his

kind of view, pessimistic

view of the world.

No, it doesn't kill

him.

He fails it, but it

doesn't technically kill

him.

It probably sucked his

brains out too.

We just didn't see him

leaking out.

Also, I love his, I'm

sorry.

I think, no, I would

say, yeah, this works

for me because it

justifies itself, even

though if it was just,

oh, here's our way of

getting a trap in, I

probably would have

been fine with it.

But the purview into

like John's brain, the

way he's just in the

room starts putting

together what to use

for a trap.

And his feelings and

kind of like inner

anger, but also the

fact he kind of, it

shows like his morality

whenever the orderly

puts the stuff back

upon getting caught.

And John's like, yeah,

okay, that's good

enough.

I also just love the

almost self parody

moralizing about the

nobility of the

hospital janitor.

Almost like John is

saying, okay, if I were

to turn this into a

jigsaw thing, what

thing would I say as a

first draft?

I should say, when we

were talking about this

movie before recording

the episode, I kind of

made some comments like,

oh, I don't know.

I kind of wish they had

done more of the

stylistic editing of

Bozeman's entries and

then rewatching the film

and I was, oh, I said a

stupid thing.

Because if you watch

that scene, you can

clearly see it's as

stylized as ever, if not

more so than most of

the entries.

I particularly actually

like the camera rig they

have set up where when

the fingers are breaking,

the camera quickly does

like a 90 degree turn to

follow the action of the

finger.

It's very kinetic.

And I don't know what I

was thinking when I

complained about that.

I'd forgotten how much

work they had really done

to film these things in

a style similar to a lot

of the earlier entries.

Yeah, it's nowhere near

as grimy as the previous

entry, but you can tell

they very much

tried in both the

directorial style and

art design, all the

production stuff.

They kind of took

cherry picked little bits

and pieces from every

Saw movie to create a

unified aesthetic for the

series.

Yeah.

This is the first Saw

movie that looks like

what Saw looks like in

your head.

And one interesting thing

that I caught on the

commentary when they were

discussing filming choices

for the movie was how

they approached flashbacks

because the series has

been littered with

flashbacks, but their

normal approach on those

was to change the color

grading, like they would

put it into a different

color style, maybe make it

a little hazier or

whatever, and you would

get a very quick visual

sense.

Oh, yeah, this is

happening on a different

timeline.

And what they did here

was they decided that

looked too dated because

Saw has been around for

20 plus years.

They had to do some

things to freshen up.

And one of the choices

Reuter made was to

instead do flashbacks

with a much different

lens than the rest of

the film, like use, I

think using like a 16

millimeter lens, you

know, something like

that instead to give it

a very, very different

focal setting.

And you would be able

to tell that way

something maybe not as

obvious if you're not

paying full attention,

but clearly different

from the rest of the

film, which is kind of

an interesting way to go

to make the movie feel

modern while still giving

it a little bit of extra

juice.

Also, I just want to tag

up on that very

thoughtful comment with

is he about to tell

John that he needs

to seek out

commatage?

There's a new

Marvel movie.

So we we find out

that this movie really

was inspired by

part six.

There's a moment where

Jigsaw goes to

William, who is his

health care, well,

insurance guy.

And he's denied coverage

for the treatment that

this character is

currently explaining.

In that movie, they

make it sound like it's

an actual treatment and

the guy's just a jerk by

telling John, no, you

can't have it.

This movie, spoilers, we

find out it's all a scam

in the first place.

It's a neat bit of

continuity, but I'm glad

they don't stress it as

much as they could have

in the deleted scenes for

the film.

They actually have a

whole section where they

have footage from Saw

six just inserted into

this film.

And one, I'm glad they

didn't because I don't

think narratively it

works.

Perfectly, like you can

tell it's a bit of a

retcon.

And two, it looks very,

very silly to see John

from like 2012 all of a

sudden compared to John

from 2023.

A much cheaper looking

movie.

Look, I have a theory.

John has a rare type of

cancer that causes him to

age and de-age back and

forth rapidly.

That's what they call

that.

Spontaneous,

uncontrollable

bungeonitis.

My only question is,

my only regret is that I

have Benjamin

buttonitis.

I love that John still

has Windows 98.

And Hunts and Pecks.

They talked about this

pretty extensively in the

making of feature for the

movie, but one of the big

challenges with this film

is trying to do a John

story that doesn't make

him out to look like a

big old dummy.

Yeah, because the

crux of this is John

falls for a phishing scam.

So inherently it's set up

as John is being fooled

and taken advantage of,

but he is also, as the

rest of the series would

portray, like one of the

world's most brilliant men

and like raised tacticians

and he knows everything

about you, even if you

don't kind of guys.

So it's real hard to hit

that balance right.

And they mostly pull it

off.

And I think Tobin was

pretty instrumental in

that because he insisted

like, hey, I don't want

my guy to look like a

dummy.

I, you know, I love this

character and I really

don't want him to come

off as cheap just so we

can get this plot in

motion.

So I think you can tell

throughout this movie,

they go the extra effort

to show that, you know,

they're applying to his

emotions to really trick

him into this stuff.

And they take their time

getting to the point where

he sends the money, goes

to Mexico.

They don't rush through

it all in like a five

minute montage at the

very start of the film

so they can get to the

blood.

And they really show how

hopeless he is.

And bad off John is

prior to this.

So he's very susceptible.

I think that adds also to

his anger whenever he

discovers it's a ruse

too, is the fact that

to him, it's there's

also a bit of, but I'm

fucking jigsaw.

Yeah.

One thing I want to say

it's fucking hilarious to

me that John Kramer

sends all of his emails

and messages with

ellipses at the end.

Like, of course he

would.

I'm very interested.

Were you saying

anything, John?

No, that was the end

of the message.

Oh, that's a there's

a particular moment in

the deleted scenes

where you see John

kind of point out the

irony that of all the

people in the world

to be an old man

conned by a scheme.

It's me, jigsaw.

Well, I think the timing

on this works pretty well

to like it feels topical

without being overbearing

like this is going to

work in a few years.

But I think it hits

particularly well right

now.

It just just due to the

rise of kind of fishing

schemes that are dependent

on getting people kind of

emotionally invested in

this game.

Like during COVID, a lot

of people were just stuck

at home.

I think there was a

desperation for human

contact.

And you know what?

There was a John Oliver

segment yesterday on last

week tonight.

Just talking about how

this how many people fell

down that rabbit hole.

You know, you get a wrong

message.

They start talking to you

all of a sudden.

They seem nice.

You're lonely.

And then they start talking to you.

And then they start talking to you.

And then they start talking to you.

And then they start talking to you.

And then they set you up to

start investing in a fake

company.

And before you know it, oh,

no, I've lost three hundred

thousand dollars.

So we're in that phase where,

you know, it's happening all

the time.

A lot of older folks are kind

of desperate for that

connection.

And it makes sense for the

audience why John would fall

for something like this,

because we probably have a

relative who might have done

something stupid in the same

way.

And it's also another thing

where the.

Where the time period it

takes place in really helps

them there.

Because this is still pre

Nigerian Prince Internet

where everyone isn't

even with even though you can

Google somebody in two thousand

two, it's not the same as

trying to find out if

something's a scam now.

Like there was so resources

were so significantly smaller

back then.

Very true.

Plus, I wish they'd used the

new term for it, like pig

butchering would have been

thematically such a better fit

than just fishing.

Although we do have that fun

deleted scene where John starts

explaining, like you went

fishing over the pH.

I enjoy it because in the

making of feature ads, they go

into like we explain the

concept to Tobin Bell and he

went on that rant in real time

like he just made up that

dialogue.

Oh, God, nobody get him a DVD

of Catfish the series.

I love the idea of someone

explaining to Tobin Bell like

catfishing and him just like

immediately getting the concept

and starting to riff on it as

jigsaw like, oh, wait, I can

work with this.

Give me a second.

He can riff as jigsaw.

We're in yellow

tinted country.

And this is one of the things I

was kind of bitching about where

it's it's a little old hat to

say, oh, we're in Mexico.

All of a sudden, it's got to be

very warm tones.

But at a certain point, you have

to just give in that it's

cinematic shorthand at this

point.

Yeah.

Like, it's just a short

cut, you know, which I

true kind of.

I mean, it'd be weird if they

went something like if this was

bright blue or something,

everyone be scratching their

heads like, well, it doesn't

feel like they went to Mexico.

Yeah.

Then you would have thought,

are we in Norway?

I guess they looked at other

spots beside Mexico to film a

movie like they're thinking

like, oh, we could go to like

Bulgaria or some other cheaper

country.

And luckily, it all worked

out.

They actually filmed in Mexico.

Imagine the other world where

this was all shot in the

European castle that

Charles Band owns.

All right.

That'd been kind of fun,

though.

Just saw X on the set of

Castle Freak.

Castle Saw.

Also, I like how John gets to

be in Breaking Bad for 15

seconds.

It's definitely like doing the

walk in thing from Seven

Psychopaths.

Shoot me.

I think what's fascinating,

though, about stuff like this

is just seeing how helpless

and pathetic John actually

is.

He's never been an action

hero, you know, even in two

when he technically has all the

cards, he still gets his

fingers broken by Matthews and

his face beat in like he's

going to take a licking.

He really can't overpower you.

He kind of relies on help from

his assistants and his

persuasion to get all of his

deeds done and only find

himself in situations where he

is the only one who could

possibly be in control.

Yeah, he has to manufacture

everything.

He has to make himself being

powerful.

And I like how they really

highlight that with this by

and I think it would have been

easy in doing like a personal

like straight John story to

still try to make him kind of

cool.

Like a cool villain, but

he's just shaking and kind of

pathetic.

Well, this one, this one.

Boy, it kind of goes full

circle from where we started

with, where in Saw 1, we

know almost nothing about the

guy.

He pops up off the floor and

he's just kind of terrifying,

right?

Because we don't know anything

about him, but he managed to do

this whole thing while laying in

the room with you.

He has that thing on his face.

Yeah, this one goes the other

way around where we see him for

two hours as a frail, dying old

man who is just kind of sad

about things.

So it's very weird that we've

gone 10 movies in and our

monster is now more sympathetic

than ever.

And we see so much of his side

where we don't.

We don't hate him the way we

might have after several of the

other entries.

I don't know.

It's always been a weird thing

where people have revered John,

but you can clearly tell he's

doing evil things.

Yeah, I think they actually do a

pretty good job in this and

balancing of of really having it

called out like John, you are

being a hypocrite and doing evil

things.

Yeah, they finally have some

people that get to kind of lay

into him and hey, you don't have

the moral high ground here.

I wish those amounted to a little

more.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Some of them ended up on the

cutting room floor, but it's

nice to get those moments.

Obviously, it didn't take

because this is like saw 1.5.

So he would double down on

everything when he gets back to

the United States.

I know one thing I know that's

frustrated you, especially in