Shownotes
Growing up in the rugged landscapes of Scotland, our guest Ralph Weir, CEO of Zayndu, has traversed a fascinating journey - from the world of semiconductors and mobile television to the cutting-edge realm of vertical farming. Ralph's story is not just a narrative of professional evolution, but a testament to the power of adaptability and innovation. Join us as we uncover how Ralph's Scottish roots, his father's profound influence, and a chance encounter with the world of agriculture shaped his incredible journey.
Zayndu, under Ralph's leadership, is revolutionizing the farming landscape using plasma technology. This episode dives into the crux of their trailblazing work centered on leveraging plasma to enhance crop growth, optimize seeds per specific growing systems, and significantly reduce costs - transforming vertical farming into an accessible venture for small-scale farmers. We also ponder over the intriguing concepts of differential pricing and 'snooze mode' for seasonal planting, with Ralph providing us with his insights on the same.
Despite the numerous challenges posed by the global pandemic and Brexit, Zayndu's resilience and commitment to their mission remain unwavering. As we navigate through the complexities of leadership, the nuances of technology, and the future of vertical farming, we get a glimpse into the potential of decision-making rooted in facts, and the importance of clean seeds in a vertical farm. Tune in and get inspired by this compelling story of innovation, resilience, and passion for the environment.
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Key Takeaways
0:00:01 - Vertical Farming and Scottish Origins
0:16:11 - Zayndu
0:20:26 - Leadership and Managing Through Challenging Times
0:27:13 - Plasma Technology in Agriculture
0:46:38 - The Future of Vertical Farming
0:57:16 - Discovering and Connecting with Inspiring Stories
Tweetable Quotes
"When you're in a hole, the bomb doesn't count the pips. His point was if you're doing a job it doesn't matter if you're a major or the lowest rank. The bomb doesn't care. You're a team, do it together."
"I think that in many ways, that transition from the world of semiconductors came through a series of other startups looking at things like aircraft efficiency and really starting to look at what can we do not to change the way people have to live, but to bring things into line to make what people need achievable within the bounds of what the world can provide."
"Plasma is this fourth state of matter. It's a high energy state and instead of having these very solid bonds that the ice had, they became looser with the water, looser again with the gas and we actually start to split up the molecules so they become separate ions and at that point a lot of interesting things happen."
Resources Mentioned
Ralph's Website - www.zayndu.com
Ralph's Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralphweirceo/
Ralph's Email - [email protected]
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Mentioned in this episode:
2025 Precision Ag Report by iGrowNews
2025 Precision Ag Report by iGrowNews
Transcripts
$680 million poured into precision ag last year.
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Speaker:Precision Agriculture Intelligence Report From iGrow News is now
Speaker:available. Get your copy today at
Speaker:igrownews.com/precision. As an
Speaker:industry, we've got to get this right. I think whether
Speaker:it's glasshouse, vertical farms, or whatever, we've got to move
Speaker:the agricultural output forwards. And I think
Speaker:we're a very, very big part of that story. I think the staggering
Speaker:number is the story of agriculture using 70% of the Earth's
Speaker:water. And now we're going to increase agriculture by 50%, and you're
Speaker:going, well, that means there's not going to be any Perrier, doesn't it? So
Speaker:we've got to do something about it.
Speaker:Welcome to the Vertical Farming Podcast, weekly conversations
Speaker:with fascinating CEOs, founders, and agtech
Speaker:visionaries. Join us every week as we dive deep into the
Speaker:world of vertical farming with your host, Harry Duran.
Speaker:Vertical Farming Podcast, season 9. Welcome back to the show
Speaker:if you are a regular listener. I always like rolling out the welcome
Speaker:mat because I appreciate the time you put in to listen to this
Speaker:show week in and week out, season after season, whether you've been
Speaker:here since episode 1 or you just found it recently and you
Speaker:decided to make your way back here. I truly appreciate it. I don't take your
Speaker:time for granted. And I'm grateful for you sharing the show, listening to the
Speaker:show, and all the comments and all the feedback I get on all the
Speaker:socials and on email. It really warms my heart. So keep doing it 'cause it
Speaker:certainly makes my day. If this is your first time listening, then you're in the
Speaker:right place if you're looking for a show where we interview fascinating CEOs and founders
Speaker:of the leading vertical farming companies from around the world. I'm your host, Hari Duran,
Speaker:podcasting since 2014 with my first show, Podcast Junkies, and founder
Speaker:of our full-service podcast agency, Fullcast. In case you missed
Speaker:last week's episode, we had a great conversation with Robin Vincent of
Speaker:Kenobi Technologies. We talked about his navigation of the
Speaker:CEO journey, his love for tech and electronics, Ubuntu
Speaker:wellness and growing nutritious food, conference travel, networking
Speaker:discussions, energy efficiency in farming, loneliness, and the
Speaker:challenges of entrepreneurship. As you might imagine, covering a lot of
Speaker:bases, and that one's been well received. Make sure you check that out if you
Speaker:have not already. This week we speak to Ralph Weir of Xanadu.
Speaker:Ralph grew up in Scotland and has traversed a really fascinating journey from the world
Speaker:of semiconductors and mobile television all the way to vertical farming.
Speaker:And his story is not just a narrative of his own evolution, but a testament
Speaker:to the power of adaptability and innovation. We talk about his roots,
Speaker:his father's profound influence on his life, and a chance
Speaker:encounter with the world of agtech, which shaped his incredible
Speaker:journey. Under Ralph's leadership, Zaindu is revolutionizing the farming landscape using
Speaker:plasma technology, which is something that was new to me, and I was really interested
Speaker:to deep dive on this. We talk about their trailblazing work and how they're
Speaker:leveraging plasma to enhance crop growth, optimize seeds per specific
Speaker:growing systems, and significantly reduce costs, which is really
Speaker:helpful for transforming vertical farming into an accessible venture for
Speaker:small-scale farmers, which is something that's near and dear to my heart. We talk a
Speaker:little bit about differential pricing and what he's called snooze mode
Speaker:for seasonal planting, which is an interesting concept, and he'll explain
Speaker:that in this episode. Despite the numerous challenges posed by the pandemic and
Speaker:Brexit, Zaindu's resilience and commitment to their mission
Speaker:remained unwavering, and we talked about how he was able to navigate the
Speaker:complexities of leadership, all the challenges of tech,
Speaker:and how to future-proof what they're doing in the vertical farming space.
Speaker:It's truly an inspiring story of innovation, resilience,
Speaker:and a passion for the environment as well, so I know you'll get a lot
Speaker:out of this. If you enjoy this episode or any past episodes, then please
Speaker:leave me a rating and a review at
Speaker:ratethispodcast.com/vfp. I know there's people that are
Speaker:listening to this that hear this week in and week out that have not done
Speaker:it yet. So pause, do that now,
Speaker:ratethispodcast.com/vfp, and I'd love to read yours
Speaker:out next and give you a shout out. These episodes are gonna be chock-full of
Speaker:great takeaways as always. And remember, as a listener, I
Speaker:want you to focus all your energy on our conversation. So don't worry about jotting
Speaker:down notes or pulling over the car
Speaker:to rewind a piece that you wanted to hear again, rest
Speaker:assured you can always visit verticalfarmingpodcast.com. You can read the full
Speaker:show notes for each episode, which includes all the guest links as well. Okay, before
Speaker:we jump into this uninterrupted conversation with Ralph, here are a few
Speaker:words from the amazing partners that support this show. This episode is brought to you
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Speaker:ceasummit.com for more details and to register. So
Speaker:Ralph Weir, CEO of Zayindoo, thank you so much for joining me on
Speaker:the Vertical Farming Podcast. Thank you, Hari. I'm really excited to be
Speaker:here. Oh, that's very nice of you. Thank
Speaker:you so much. When did you first hear about the show? It was
Speaker:actually through a friend who said you should be listening to some of these. Yeah,
Speaker:it's probably, oh, 6 months ago.
Speaker:Oh, it's amazing what you can get with CarPlay in the car on the drive
Speaker:home. It's great. So I should be thanking your friend as well.
Speaker:You know Mickey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And where are you
Speaker:calling in from? So yeah, I'm coming from Loughborough, which is
Speaker:between Nottingham and Leicester in the UK. It's in the
Speaker:middle of the sort of the industrial heartland of
Speaker:England. Okay. There's a lot of engineering around here.
Speaker:A lot of science. We're actually a spin-out from the university here,
Speaker:which is where the company was originally founded. What, was
Speaker:that where you grew up as well? Oh no, no, no, no.
Speaker:I'm from the west coast of Scotland. Oh, okay. It's a very
Speaker:different part of the world. It's a land of fjords and
Speaker:mountains. My grandfather had a croft up there,
Speaker:so that is a bit of a connection with The whole
Speaker:farming community, although of course a croft with a few sheep and a few
Speaker:crops is very different to what we have today. Yeah. So
Speaker:yes, different. Is croft Scottish for farm? It's like a
Speaker:very small holding. So the village he had his
Speaker:croft in, there was a small house which was sort of like one
Speaker:bedroom, one other room, and a strip of land that ran up
Speaker:the mountain behind. And every one of the houses had
Speaker:this strip of land behind it. So it's a beautiful
Speaker:old-fashioned way of life, largely gone, I
Speaker:think, overrun by bigger farms. And it
Speaker:has to be, you know, for the scale and, yeah, just the economies of modern
Speaker:farming. Yeah, I've heard a lot of good things about
Speaker:Scotland. My partner's ex-husband is from there, so she's been
Speaker:there. She said it's absolutely spectacular. The landscape is
Speaker:just amazing. And so every time I hear people talk about, you
Speaker:know, the The Scottish countryside, you know, they come back, you know,
Speaker:or describing it in terms that just really describe something
Speaker:that's idyllic and almost fantasy-like, I think, from the ways they're describing
Speaker:it sometimes. It is the sort of place where if you get the
Speaker:weather right, it is just phenomenal. It can be very, very
Speaker:beautiful. It is also a lot
Speaker:more rugged than perhaps people imagine. I
Speaker:think one of the things that people in the States don't realize about Europe is
Speaker:how far north a lot of Europe is, you know. So
Speaker:Glasgow and Edinburgh are the 2 big cities, they're both
Speaker:at 55 degrees north. I think the US,
Speaker:I think, stops at 48 degrees north. Okay. You know, so it's a long
Speaker:way, it's a, by nature, it's a very different sort of climate.
Speaker:Yeah. Which is quite interesting, you start talking about indoor farming and
Speaker:indoor agriculture. Yeah. the different perspectives you have if you're down in
Speaker:the far south or in the desert or in the far north.
Speaker:It's a very different set of criteria to what you might
Speaker:have in Texas or— Yeah,
Speaker:most definitely. So did growing up there, did that color any of
Speaker:your decisions when you were in university and
Speaker:thinking about what to study? Or, you know, take us back a little bit ways.
Speaker:You don't have to go all the way back with super specifics, but I'm just
Speaker:curious about your mindset and as we get to present day, what that origin
Speaker:story looks like. Gosh, there's a
Speaker:few things from my grandfather's craft. One of them was
Speaker:one of my cousins who I remember as a young boy,
Speaker:maybe 5, 6 years old, I was describing to my cousin who was
Speaker:much older than me, she was probably 30, what I was describing
Speaker:was the very beautiful patterns you get if you drip oil from an outboard
Speaker:motor on a boat. into the water and you get these beautiful
Speaker:rainbow effects. She was absolutely horrified
Speaker:and was all about the environment and, have you thought about what you're
Speaker:doing to the fish? And I'm like, no, I'm 5 years old, I'm making pretty
Speaker:patterns. But that kind of stuck
Speaker:with me. It was the first person I'd ever heard talk about the
Speaker:environment and change in the environment. I think the other thing that was
Speaker:going on back then was My father had been
Speaker:a major in the war in the British Army in bomb disposal,
Speaker:and that gave him something of a unique attitude towards
Speaker:management style. He used to say that when you're in a hole,
Speaker:the bomb doesn't count the pips. And I don't know if you know about the
Speaker:pips on an officer's— Oh, the stripes. Yeah. Okay. His
Speaker:point was, if you're doing a job, it doesn't matter if you're a major or
Speaker:the lowest rank. the bomb doesn't care, you know, you're a
Speaker:team, do it together. And so I've tried to live by that,
Speaker:try not to ask the team to do, to do more than I
Speaker:would do myself. But that actually— he had a
Speaker:love of electronics that rubbed off on me,
Speaker:and I think you've got something of a love of electronic music.
Speaker:I think we've talked about that in the past. I do, yes, I do. My
Speaker:first passion is house music, growing up as a
Speaker:teenager in New York. I took a shine to that
Speaker:and been to many clubs in New York, and I still have my turntables and
Speaker:I still play. I played some vinyl this past weekend. Wow. At a friend's comic
Speaker:book store here in town. So it's always something that I try to get in
Speaker:as much as possible. I still make DJ mixes on SoundCloud as well.
Speaker:Nice. So when I was at school in what the—
Speaker:it would be in the early '80s, I was building analog synthesizers.
Speaker:So, you know, building keyboards, drum synths were my
Speaker:particular challenge. I was trying to build drum synthesizers. Okay.
Speaker:And some friends who were proper musicians, as opposed to people tinkering with the
Speaker:electronics, started to talk about digital synthesizers. I
Speaker:was like, how did that work? Digital? That's just numbers.
Speaker:Learned a little bit more about it, and that led me into going into a
Speaker:course in digital signal processing and semiconductors.
Speaker:Which is as far away from power making as you can get, you know. So
Speaker:my early career started designing chips for mobile phones,
Speaker:and that was with Motorola, in fact. Motorola, then
Speaker:Texas Instruments, and then into the world of startups
Speaker:in the early '90s. Okay. So when I say the early '90s, I'm starting to
Speaker:feel quite old. That means I've been in startups for 31 years.
Speaker:That's amazing. And so what were some of the things that were on
Speaker:top of mind for you? I know as it regards to getting into present
Speaker:day and the work you're doing with Zaindu, you mentioned your early
Speaker:influences from family members about thinking about the
Speaker:environment as you were working in the startup community. What were some of
Speaker:the other influences that were stemming, were beginning to come on your radar
Speaker:to start to paint and create this, you know, what maybe your existing
Speaker:worldview now? I think most of the early
Speaker:startups I was drawn to because it was cool
Speaker:technology. You know, things like OLED displays,
Speaker:so materials for OLED displays, semiconductor materials to improve
Speaker:the efficiency of LED lighting, mobile television. I would
Speaker:say I've been in some startups that went very well. I would not say that
Speaker:mobile television was one of them. Building a TV into your phone
Speaker:seemed like a great idea at one point. Yeah. Yeah. Some—
Speaker:you've got the external forces, of course, that influence what's going on.
Speaker:But that gave me a great view of how the world works,
Speaker:how the world of startups and investment works.
Speaker:But most of those were things that when I described them
Speaker:to my wife or to my family, they would go,
Speaker:yeah, whatever. They were just cool gadgets that,
Speaker:you know, the kids might like the idea of. someday, but I
Speaker:think there's a real difference when you start to talk about what Zyndoo is doing
Speaker:and people just go, oh, I get that, I see what you're doing, this is
Speaker:fantastic. Yeah. People can associate with it much better.
Speaker:And I think that in many ways that transition
Speaker:from the world of semiconductors came
Speaker:through a series of— well, they started out looking at things like aircraft
Speaker:efficiency and really starting to look at what
Speaker:can we do, not to change the way people have to
Speaker:live, but to bring things into line, to make
Speaker:what people need achievable within the bounds of what the world
Speaker:can provide. Hmm. And so I was actually
Speaker:introduced to Felipe, the founder of the company, the original founder,
Speaker:by some friends who said, look, this guy's spinning a company out from the
Speaker:university. needs some help from somebody who knows about startups.
Speaker:And every time he opened his mouth, I went, really? Does
Speaker:it do that? This is so cool!
Speaker:Yeah. So yes, and that really resonated
Speaker:with me, the idea of increasing
Speaker:crop yields and getting rid of chemicals
Speaker:really without changing anything. You know, there's no chemicals involved,
Speaker:there's just a little bit of electricity and a little bit of magic, and we
Speaker:do these amazing things. So it really became one of those ones you just
Speaker:end up going, I've got to get involved in this. So how much of it
Speaker:was an education process for you, understanding what
Speaker:was happening in the controlled environment agriculture space?
Speaker:And so how much did you need to sort of get up to speed to
Speaker:get a grasp of really what was being created, what you were getting into?
Speaker:I've learned a huge amount about controlled
Speaker:environments. I actually live on a farm. I had that
Speaker:connection to the Croft back in the early days, so I knew a fair bit.
Speaker:I knew more than the average man on the street, put it that way. I
Speaker:had also had quite a lot of exposure to things like LED lighting
Speaker:and understanding some of the applications of that, particularly in places like
Speaker:Taiwan and Korea. Okay. With some of their farms. So I've learned
Speaker:a lot But I think I was already in a place where I was
Speaker:familiar with the concept and very receptive.
Speaker:To be honest though, in the very early days, we were not creating
Speaker:something for controlled environment, for indoor growing. Right. We
Speaker:were working, and still are working, with the very big seed producers
Speaker:and saying, if we can make this available
Speaker:globally for every seed, we've got something which is,
Speaker:you know, is very significant. What we've
Speaker:discovered since, of course, is that this business of the controlled
Speaker:environment, whether it's the vertical farms or the glasshouses, you get
Speaker:so much benefit from reducing the pathogens. Because pathogens can
Speaker:only get into a farm in 4 ways, into a vertical farm at least. They
Speaker:can come in on the people, on the water, on the growing
Speaker:media, or on the seeds. That's your 4 options.
Speaker:Okay, so water you can sterilize, that's not a problem. Growing media
Speaker:again can be sterilized. People, you'd probably
Speaker:best not sterilize them, but you can probably wrap them up in— I
Speaker:always think about those, every time you watch those space movies, they,
Speaker:they go through that chamber that sort of showers them with all sorts of
Speaker:air or chemicals or something that to sterilize them. And I wonder, I
Speaker:imagine a lot of that is happening on-site or some of these locations as well.
Speaker:It is really interesting. The first vertical farms I saw,
Speaker:people were just wandering around, maybe with a lab coat or something.
Speaker:And you look at it now and it's much more— to
Speaker:me, coming out of the semiconductor industry, you're sort of going, you're getting into the
Speaker:bunny suits and so forth that people are wearing in clean rooms. Yeah.
Speaker:Some of the big farms are just saying, you are not getting
Speaker:into our growing rooms, it's just not happening. We've got some nice windows you
Speaker:can look in, but that's it. And some of those guys
Speaker:are, you know, they're working up at the 25,000-meter level and
Speaker:beyond. You know, these things are getting to be really huge. So.
Speaker:Yeah, I think it's one of those things that people may know,
Speaker:obviously, in the industry, but people that are new to the industry may not think
Speaker:on the fact that you can bring in contaminants through those 4
Speaker:channels. I think it may be news to some folks listening as well. And I
Speaker:think it's important to understand because one of the I think one of the biggest
Speaker:selling points when people talk about TEA, indoor farming,
Speaker:and the benefits of it, obviously in the beginning, a lot of it is touting
Speaker:the lack of pesticides, the lack of need for controlling
Speaker:any bugs or contaminants. And I think especially you coming from the semiconductor
Speaker:industry and this idea of clean rooms, I think it's really understanding and
Speaker:educating the audience to the
Speaker:extent as to what's possible from a contaminant perspective in terms of different
Speaker:sizes, bugs, and— And I'm wondering, you know, based on your
Speaker:experience, you know, how much of that do you feel is an
Speaker:education process for some people that may not be aware of what's
Speaker:possible when it comes to contaminating these rooms? I think it's huge. I have seen
Speaker:several— I've been working with vertical farms for
Speaker:4 years and just watching
Speaker:some of the protocols, the SOPs changing, and what
Speaker:people are doing. It's certainly been a
Speaker:wake-up for me. I remember my first trip around a seed factory, a seed
Speaker:plant, and being asked, you know, don't touch the seeds.
Speaker:And that was about the limit of it in, you know, for open field farming.
Speaker:Yeah. And I think if you come from open field into a vertical farm,
Speaker:you probably don't have that same mindset that comes out of the,
Speaker:I know, the medical industry or the semiconductor business of keeping it absolutely
Speaker:clean. So this is, for us, one of the things
Speaker:that we're bringing to that area is that ability to clean the
Speaker:seeds before they go in, block off that fourth, the fourth pathogen
Speaker:vector. And that gets really interesting because, of course,
Speaker:really you want zero-wash salads. That's the big ambition.
Speaker:And if somebody, I don't know, they've got a cold and they've got
Speaker:some pathogens and they Somehow it gets in the
Speaker:seeds. Before you know it, you've got Listeria or Salmonella or E. coli or
Speaker:whatever. It's on the seeds. It's inevitably going
Speaker:to rattle through the farm and out on the salad. And if
Speaker:we can just stop that getting in there, then, then yes, huge progress.
Speaker:We talked a little bit about the origins of the name. If you want to
Speaker:just go through that story, because I think it's contextually helpful for
Speaker:folks to understand, you know, the mission behind what you're doing at Zaindu.
Speaker:So I mentioned that our founder, the university professor
Speaker:behind the technology, is Felipe Iza Perez, and he is
Speaker:from the Basque part of Spain. So the Basque
Speaker:region in the north of Spain has its own dialect.
Speaker:And when we were naming the company, Felipe came up with
Speaker:this word, Zaindu, and it's based on one of
Speaker:the Basque words, which just means to care for. And we all went,
Speaker:actually, that is exactly what we're trying to do. We're trying to care for the
Speaker:environment. We're trying to do all this good stuff, taking away the
Speaker:chemicals, improving outcomes for growing. And it
Speaker:probably goes beyond that with the ultimate vision for the company in terms
Speaker:of the other approaches, the other things that we can do with this, which extend
Speaker:on elsewhere into Plasma for Agriculture.
Speaker:But it's all about caring for the environment, for the plants that we're growing, for
Speaker:the crops. And that's kind of the ethos that we try and bring
Speaker:into the business. What was different about this
Speaker:initiative, Raf, when you think about all the startups
Speaker:you worked on and all the companies you've worked for and led in the
Speaker:past? And what was it about Zaindu and Filipe's
Speaker:mission that attracted you and made you feel like this is something
Speaker:that you wanted to begin dedicating quite a bit of your time to?
Speaker:I think, well, when I first met Felipe, I
Speaker:pretty quickly, I made up my mind about it, but what
Speaker:cemented it was going home and talking to my wife
Speaker:about it and her just going, you've got to do that one.
Speaker:When you start to look at what
Speaker:Felipe thought we could do, and in that
Speaker:context of, I suppose, as a family, we've always
Speaker:been you know, the people who've been pushing to get recycling into our
Speaker:street and all this kind of thing. You know, we've always
Speaker:been at that sort of, that sort of end of trying to care for the
Speaker:environment as much as we can, being very aware of, of the
Speaker:constraints that the planet has. And when
Speaker:I described it to Jane, she just went, this is exactly what
Speaker:you should be doing. You know, this is one that it doesn't matter which of
Speaker:our friends you explain it to, There are some who in the past, you're talking
Speaker:about stuff for mobile phones or for planes or whatever, go, oh well,
Speaker:you know, you shouldn't be flying anywhere, just another gadget.
Speaker:We've never had that from anybody when we talk about, about
Speaker:Zaindu. It's just everybody goes, yeah, I get it. And
Speaker:I think for me, I think there was something of a meeting of
Speaker:minds with Felipe because I knew a little bit
Speaker:about farming. I knew a little bit about the electronics. I knew a little bit
Speaker:about biology and chemistry. Just some people say
Speaker:CEOs need to know enough to be dangerous, and I think I was probably in
Speaker:that category. You know, it's that chemistry of the
Speaker:people as well as of the idea. And so I think that
Speaker:was a big part. I think that's helped us as we've built the team out
Speaker:as well. So we've ended up building out a fantastic team.
Speaker:I think it's quite interesting when you look at a
Speaker:team and just the way they react, you know, when— because
Speaker:if you're a small company, you quite often are in a situation where there is
Speaker:one guy who's responsible for a whole area. And
Speaker:you can just see when somebody's under pressure, other people will
Speaker:be making them cups of tea and coffee, going, can I get
Speaker:that for you? Can I help? Can I do this? Can I do that? Yeah.
Speaker:Or even, you know, if it's areas where there is
Speaker:cross-skilling, people stepping in and going, let me do that. So,
Speaker:and, you know, it's not a 9-to-5
Speaker:mentality. It's, we're trying to do something here, we're trying to do something amazing.
Speaker:So if the work's done at half past 4, people will be disappearing.
Speaker:On the other hand, if the work's not done at half past 5 or half
Speaker:past 6 or half past 9, people are not disappearing, people are getting on.
Speaker:And, you know, I really like that. It's a very fine balance between putting pressure
Speaker:on people people to deliver against a milestone or a deadline or whatever?
Speaker:And are we creating an environment where they feel that they're under pressure,
Speaker:even though you don't think you're putting them under pressure? I like to think that
Speaker:it's because they love what they're doing. They see where we're going.
Speaker:You know, I think it's— Yeah, I think that's a testament to the quality of
Speaker:leadership as well, because when you see companies that do it well and do it
Speaker:successfully, it's this really fine balance of
Speaker:ensuring that everyone is bought into the mission. And probably that's something that needs
Speaker:to happen It's easier if you're hiring the person, probably a bit more
Speaker:challenging if you're stepping into an organization where there's already people there and they've
Speaker:had a previous leadership and you've got to now convince them that this is the
Speaker:new way of doing things. But I think feeling that
Speaker:everyone's moving towards the same mission, the same goal, for the same
Speaker:reason, I think helps to keep people bought in. And during those
Speaker:times and those stretches when things can get tough or nights or afternoons can get
Speaker:long, I think feeling like they're not being put out or being
Speaker:asked to go above and beyond for no reason. I think everyone's bought in,
Speaker:and I think it helps with the culture there. Is this leadership style
Speaker:something that you've learned over the years, or it's something
Speaker:that someone has inspired— your previous, you know, bosses have
Speaker:inspired you to adopt? I think it's probably a
Speaker:little bit of many things. I mentioned my father and
Speaker:his view of Bobbin's attitude to rank.
Speaker:And also an upbringing within
Speaker:Motorola and Texas Instruments, who are fantastic training
Speaker:grounds. I mean, people in semiconductors used to joke that Texas
Speaker:Instruments, or TI— TI stands for Training Institute—
Speaker:because they were fantastic. You were put on
Speaker:so many courses, management style, commercial courses.
Speaker:They really invested in their people back in those days. And I can't speak for
Speaker:what it's like now, but they really helped a lot. I think there are
Speaker:several bosses along the way, some
Speaker:who would completely fail today's politically correctness
Speaker:tests. That's true. But yeah, some
Speaker:real characters that you just learn so much from.
Speaker:And yeah, one character in particular I'm thinking of who's
Speaker:sadly no longer with us, But he was just brilliant at knowing when
Speaker:to push, what to say, what offensive thing
Speaker:to say that people would probably just about forgive him
Speaker:for, but which absolutely made him the center of
Speaker:attention so he could make whatever point he wanted to make. And he was absolutely
Speaker:brilliant. So yes, I've been very lucky with the
Speaker:people I've been able to learn from. And,
Speaker:and then also very lucky In the people that I've had working for me,
Speaker:in that sometimes you see what they're doing with their teams and go,
Speaker:that works. So
Speaker:talk a little bit about managing the company through
Speaker:trying times. I see that the company started in 2019, so naturally you had to
Speaker:make it through what the whole world experienced in terms of
Speaker:COVID And this is— that's when our show started in March of 2020. So
Speaker:I'm curious, what was the challenges you were experiencing
Speaker:as a leader and how you managed through that to present day?
Speaker:Yeah, COVID was a real difficult time.
Speaker:Initially, there was the whole shock of the world is just
Speaker:ending. And I think the first thing that we did was
Speaker:gather our family around and try to
Speaker:make sure that the rest of the team had done the same. Of course, we
Speaker:were a very small team at that point. only 3 or 4 people, in fact
Speaker:4 including Felipe. And so we gathered the family
Speaker:around and then went, well, actually we can
Speaker:continue working as a team. We've got all
Speaker:these fancy remote tools, you know, with Teams and Zoom and so
Speaker:forth. We can do this. And so even with the—
Speaker:well, it wasn't just social distancing, was it? It was quarantine where you're sort of
Speaker:locked in your house. We were able to— we
Speaker:got a machine back, actually into Felipe's garage.
Speaker:He was able to be running it, developing things, passing
Speaker:stuff out to one of the guys working on software. I was ending up doing
Speaker:things on algorithms and so forth. It was, in a way,
Speaker:we were on teams continuously,
Speaker:and I think that was very important to keep giving each other
Speaker:support, and a continuous
Speaker:interaction with other humans. So that worked pretty well. And then, of course,
Speaker:at the first point that the quarantine was relaxed,
Speaker:we had to talk about how we would continue to work with social distancing.
Speaker:Well, at that point, the company was based in the university's innovation center,
Speaker:and we'd started in one unit, and then we needed a second
Speaker:unit, and these were very small offices. Yeah. And then we needed a third one,
Speaker:and there were 3 employees. And so
Speaker:the university said, well, if we're going to let you back in the building, how
Speaker:are you going to handle social distancing? And we went, he's in that
Speaker:unit, I'm in that one, we'll shut the doors.
Speaker:Yeah. So yes, we started to get
Speaker:back in that way. We did make a lot of
Speaker:progress. We would have made a lot more progress just at the stage that we
Speaker:were at A lot of relationships that we had
Speaker:were with companies in the Netherlands. We couldn't ship things in or out.
Speaker:We couldn't get access to things. And obviously things like the
Speaker:biology lab, it's a Class 2 biology lab. We need
Speaker:that for testing things like pathogens in seeds, testing
Speaker:germination rates and so forth. We couldn't get access to that,
Speaker:but we could get access to the basic physics of what the machine was
Speaker:doing and And evolved it a lot through that period.
Speaker:A lot of the sensors and control, I mean,
Speaker:they've evolved further since then, but a lot of the first
Speaker:prototypes were put together through that phase. So we
Speaker:achieved a lot, but it really caused a
Speaker:lot of issues for us. Having said that, we then had to
Speaker:cope with Brexit, so that's all part of the fun and games. All the
Speaker:different things that come, you your way as a leader, obstacles. And I think it's
Speaker:a testament to making you stronger, the fact that you can get through those,
Speaker:the fact that you can survive. And I think a lot of companies realized, you
Speaker:know, there was limits to what you thought you could do pre-Brexit, pre-COVID.
Speaker:And then I think the companies that survived and came out stronger as a result
Speaker:of figuring out ways to work through these situations
Speaker:ended up being more resilient. And I think it's made them all stronger as a
Speaker:company. And I'm sure that you would relate to that as well. Yes, you
Speaker:hear some amazing stories from a lot of the people you've had
Speaker:on your shows about how the companies have come out and done
Speaker:amazing things. I think one of the things that is very
Speaker:different is that people are much more relaxed. I think
Speaker:if you look at dress codes, they've become more relaxed. I
Speaker:can't remember the last time I wore a tie, and getting
Speaker:calls from HMRC. So HMRC is the UK tax
Speaker:office, so it's the IRS. And chatting to a lady
Speaker:at HMRC and she said, oh, I'm terribly sorry, that's my baby crying in the
Speaker:background. That would not have happened pre-COVID.
Speaker:It's just normal now. It's normal. Yes.
Speaker:And I think it's great too, especially coming from a podcast perspective. With my first
Speaker:show, Podcast Junkies, which I've started since 2014,
Speaker:300 interviews, I mean, I've had everything from a cat or a
Speaker:dog jumping into the guest's lap, doors opening,
Speaker:delivery trucks arriving, doors knocked on, doorbells going
Speaker:off. And I leave it all in because it's a podcast where we talk to
Speaker:other podcasters and it's nice to see warts and all.
Speaker:No one's really— everyone's aiming for NPR status or BBC status, but I
Speaker:think they know that really realistically it's not happening.
Speaker:But I think it also— endears us all and makes us all closer to each
Speaker:other. And I think we all realize, hey, we're all doing the best we can
Speaker:given our circumstances. And I think when we let some of
Speaker:those cracks come through, I think it helps us all connect to
Speaker:each other on a more human level, which I really love. So for the
Speaker:benefit of people who are not familiar with exactly what Zindu does, I
Speaker:know there's been words thrown around in some of the press releases and some of
Speaker:the talks that you've been giving about Plasma technology, which sounds really fancy,
Speaker:but I think for the benefits of this audience, if you could give an overview
Speaker:of what you're currently working on and who an ideal
Speaker:customer would be and some of the current projects you're working on. Sure.
Speaker:So going back to the founding of the company, what
Speaker:Felipe was describing to me was using
Speaker:plasma to create an environment around seeds.
Speaker:Which would have a big effect on the seed's
Speaker:health. What the Plasma is actually doing, what we're
Speaker:proving in so many of the farms now, is something like a
Speaker:20% uplift in crop yield on things like leafy
Speaker:greens. It's very easy to quantify on things like
Speaker:microgreens, leafy greens and so forth, because
Speaker:it's a fairly quick crop cycle and you see results quickly.
Speaker:So what we're doing is using a little bit of electricity to
Speaker:create plasma in air, or actually convert the air into a
Speaker:plasma. And maybe explaining what plasma is is not
Speaker:a bad place to start. So there's— matter has
Speaker:4 states. At school, most of us were taught about 3 of them.
Speaker:There's solid. So if you imagine, let's start with a block of ice. The block
Speaker:of ice is solid. It does not behave Like
Speaker:water, and you can see this if you put a block of ice into a
Speaker:microwave, it doesn't melt. And the
Speaker:reason it doesn't melt is because a microwave works by moving the molecules around,
Speaker:and the block of ice, the molecules are locked solid, they're not going
Speaker:to move. So somehow you're going to put some energy into that ice and
Speaker:it turns into water, and now the microwave does have an effect on it.
Speaker:You put more energy into it, it turns into steam, it's a gas now. Yeah.
Speaker:You put even more energy into it and it turns into a plasma. So
Speaker:plasma is this 4th state of matter, it's a high-energy state, and
Speaker:instead of having these very solid bonds that the ice had,
Speaker:they became looser with the water, looser again with the gas, and we
Speaker:actually start to split up the, the molecules so they become
Speaker:separate ions. And at that point, a lot of
Speaker:interesting things happen. So we have things like atomic oxygen.
Speaker:and atomic nitrogen in this mix in the plasma. So we're not
Speaker:creating any chemicals, we're just rearranging the
Speaker:molecules in the air. Okay. The air, we talk then
Speaker:about activated air. The seeds are in this activated air.
Speaker:It creates fissures in the coating of the seed.
Speaker:So this allows moisture in, which helps the seed to germinate
Speaker:quicker. It actually makes the seed germinate more
Speaker:consistently, so growers will talk about synchronizing a crop.
Speaker:Synchronizing a crop is a strange thing. If you're a home grower, it's your worst
Speaker:nightmare. You do not want every lettuce you ever planted to be ready
Speaker:for picking on Wednesday. You'd be quite happy if one was Tuesday, one was
Speaker:Thursday, and one was sometime next week. Yeah. But for a commercial grower,
Speaker:synchronizing is a very important factor, and we get that through creating
Speaker:these microfissures. At the same time, we're
Speaker:creating microfissures in any pathogens that might be in there. And you could
Speaker:imagine a microfissure that a seed goes, oh,
Speaker:that's helpful, goes right through a bacteria or a fungal spore,
Speaker:for example. So you get a massive reduction in the pathogen
Speaker:load on the seed. So you now have a seed which has much lower pathogen
Speaker:load on it. It has microfissures which help it
Speaker:germinate more quickly. The waxy coat on a lot of the
Speaker:seeds is either thinned or removed. And the
Speaker:final thing that we do is we fine-tune a hormonal
Speaker:response in the seed which helps it throw
Speaker:off its conservative nature. It's instead of
Speaker:going, oh no, you know, I should hold myself back just in case there's a
Speaker:bit of a drought or whatever. Yeah. It's going into an indoor farm. There is
Speaker:not going to be another drought. So you can use the hormones
Speaker:to adapt the way the seed is going to perform. What
Speaker:we try and do is throw them to tweak the hormones so it
Speaker:throws a bigger, better root system very early. And of course,
Speaker:bigger, better root system means bigger, better seedling, which drives
Speaker:this huge increase in the seedling growth. So you get a
Speaker:seedling which germinated perhaps 2 or
Speaker:3 days quicker than it would have done before, and which then
Speaker:grows 20% faster. And so that is
Speaker:you can imagine, proving very exciting. In some ways,
Speaker:I wish it was less than 20% because all you get is— well, you
Speaker:usually get an expletive from a farmer when you tell them about it,
Speaker:and then it's show me. Of course. So of course, what we're looking for is
Speaker:the guys who we get these things out on a sort of a
Speaker:try-before-you-buy trial, put them into a vertical farm or a
Speaker:glasshouse or whatever, and that side of things is
Speaker:going along really nicely. It does take
Speaker:some convincing to get people across the line initially because it
Speaker:looks like snake oil. A lot of people are talking about the
Speaker:confidentiality, this secrecy that goes on in the indoor
Speaker:farming community, and it's a real
Speaker:pain, it's a real aggravation for me because the
Speaker:big guys just don't want to talk about it. They're going, look, this is an
Speaker:unfair advantage. why do we tell anybody else about it?
Speaker:Yeah, so we're starting to get a few out that are opening up a little
Speaker:bit, but generally the proof points that we have end
Speaker:up being some of the big public organizations, people like
Speaker:NIAB in the UK. NIAB is the National Institute for Agriculture and
Speaker:Botany, so they've run a bunch of trials. So seeing
Speaker:basil at +30%, wow, they were pretty chuffed with
Speaker:that, pretty pleased. So yeah, it's— that's what we
Speaker:do. We make better plants. Do you find
Speaker:that it's applicable for certain seeds, for certain
Speaker:crops, for certain size farms? Is there a sweet spot or is
Speaker:it one of these things that, you know, with enough time and enough proper
Speaker:environment setup, it's almost anyone can benefit from it? We
Speaker:have vanilla protocols on the machines
Speaker:and So generally, when we come across a new
Speaker:plant variety, the team have enough
Speaker:experience to look at the seed and go, try that.
Speaker:And I think almost without exception, their first
Speaker:attempt will give good results. And we've done
Speaker:that on over 90 varieties now, so it's, it's
Speaker:pretty well proven. What we then do is some fine-tuning.
Speaker:And the fine-tuning gets to be really interesting because we
Speaker:fine-tune for the crop but also for the growing system.
Speaker:Because there is a huge difference between the
Speaker:sorts of parameters that are important in
Speaker:aquaponics, hydroponics, aeroponics,
Speaker:fogponics I was hearing about. Yeah, Alberto Aguilar from
Speaker:Plantaform, shout out to him. Yes, that was my drive home yesterday.
Speaker:So we optimize the seeds to that. The machines themselves are actually
Speaker:cloud-connected, so we can work with a grower to
Speaker:optimize. But yet it is applicable to
Speaker:pretty much any seed. We, for example, the vast
Speaker:majority of what we do with vertical farms is leafy greens of
Speaker:some description, herbs. Yeah. Saying that, we have a
Speaker:series of vertical farms who are working with us on trees. Where
Speaker:with some of the tree varieties, we've taken germination rate from, I
Speaker:think it was somewhere in the 20% range, 20 to 30%,
Speaker:taking it up to 80 to 90%, which is
Speaker:significant. And yeah, I'm
Speaker:sure there are things out there that we can't do, but we haven't found them
Speaker:yet. And is it applicable specifically at the
Speaker:seed level in terms of the production cycle, or is there other
Speaker:aspects of it where The Plasma Technology can be
Speaker:applied post-seed sprouting, seedlings,
Speaker:anywhere along that process? The systems that we're building are all
Speaker:about the seed health. There are various other companies
Speaker:who are looking at things like Plasma activated water, which is great as
Speaker:disinfectant, but also for fertigation. So that's an interesting
Speaker:area as well. The difference there is that,
Speaker:We've focused completely on seeds and developing the protocols and so forth
Speaker:to have that speciality in that sector. Seeds,
Speaker:actually, there is huge value in having a dry treatment for seeds
Speaker:because you want to go straight into an automatic seeding machine, and
Speaker:wet seeds don't work in seeding machines. Some
Speaker:seeds like basil, if you get them wet, that's the end of the game anyway.
Speaker:They just turn into a biscuit. So yeah, it's So, the Plasma
Speaker:can be applied in many areas. We actually have quite a
Speaker:series of longer-term plans for other areas we can
Speaker:bring Plasma into agriculture. It's just a case of, at the moment,
Speaker:focus on one thing and do it right. And I think that's one of the
Speaker:lessons I've had from startups, is the number one
Speaker:thing you have to do in a startup is focus. There's so many exciting things
Speaker:you can do, but just focus and do one right. Yeah, shiny
Speaker:object syndrome is definitely something that a lot of founders
Speaker:deal with on a regular basis. I'm curious, I saw that you're speaking
Speaker:at the Indoor AgTech NYC. Is there a talk scheduled as well,
Speaker:or? Not. Okay. We've had a small
Speaker:family crisis, and so I'm not speaking at it in
Speaker:New York. However, Alberto Campanaro, Dr.
Speaker:Campanaro, who is our head of plant science, is taking that slot.
Speaker:Okay. And he will be absolutely brilliant. He is a passionate
Speaker:Italian. He'll wave his arms around a lot. He
Speaker:really knows his stuff on the plant science. So, you
Speaker:know, if you had me, you'd have one perspective. I'd talk more about the plasma
Speaker:physics. If you get him, you get a lot more on the plants.
Speaker:So it should be good. I'm just sorry I'm missing out. Are you going?
Speaker:Yeah, I'm headed there. This recording will likely come out after the
Speaker:conference. But it's Wednesday, it's actually June 27th,
Speaker:2023, so I'm leaving tomorrow morning, heading on a flight to New
Speaker:York, which is my hometown. So I'm excited to get back there for a couple
Speaker:of days. I'll be there through the weekend and to see my parents as well,
Speaker:who live just north of the city as well. Nice. So, but I'll make sure
Speaker:to look out for anyone who's there from the company and chatting up. The
Speaker:2 days I'm sure will go fast, and I'll have a recap in a future
Speaker:podcast episode of everything I learned and all the new CEOs and founders I've met,
Speaker:who I'm sure I'll have a new list, as tends to
Speaker:happen at these conferences. So Ralph, I also want to
Speaker:ask a question that's common, and as a regular listener, you might know what's
Speaker:coming, but what is a tough question you've had to ask yourself recently? Oh
Speaker:gosh. I think the toughest question that I've been
Speaker:struggling with relates to the pricing model for
Speaker:what we're doing. Now, it might sound
Speaker:very money-oriented, but actually what we're doing at
Speaker:the moment is a flat-rate subscription effectively for
Speaker:the machines. And the bigger machines, the bigger the
Speaker:subscription. But there's a lot of the farms where
Speaker:if it's a big farm, they're getting an amazing deal. If it's a
Speaker:mid-sized farm, it's probably about right. And then the small
Speaker:guys, you know, the guys who are in containers, Yeah. Doesn't
Speaker:make sense at this stage. And that's something that I'm
Speaker:slightly struggling with, is how we move that one
Speaker:forwards. It's just really— and I think the answer
Speaker:lies with the cloud connection of being
Speaker:able to do a sort of a pay-per-use type of thing,
Speaker:trying to get it to a point where it becomes more
Speaker:accessible. I think to do that, we have to drive some of the costs out
Speaker:of the machine. You can imagine these first machines are probably
Speaker:over-engineered. We can probably get a bunch of the cost out and bring it down.
Speaker:But at this point, for the container farms, these things that we've been suggesting to
Speaker:people are, you know, there's a few farms in an area, let's
Speaker:set up some sort of cooperative or collaborate with a cooperative to
Speaker:get something in there. It's interesting in that the
Speaker:ag chem market use differential pricing.
Speaker:So if you apply some chemicals to wheat, you get it for some
Speaker:pennies per liter. If you apply that same chemical to tomatoes,
Speaker:it is many orders of magnitude more expensive. Interesting.
Speaker:So there is sort of a parallel model perhaps of
Speaker:going, yes, if you're using a machine like that, then you pay a little bit
Speaker:more or a little bit less. Maybe we can have a snooze mode for the
Speaker:guys who have seasonal planting.
Speaker:So I think that's been one of my thorniest
Speaker:things that I'm wrestling with at the moment. Yeah, it seems like it's
Speaker:something that it wouldn't be a one-size-fits-all, and especially for some of these
Speaker:smaller farms, one-shipping-container farms, folks just getting
Speaker:started, dipping their toe in the water, you know, it'd be nice to see if
Speaker:that they could benefit from a technology like this, which I think, you know, in
Speaker:the past might have been something that would be cost prohibitive for them. And I
Speaker:think to see those those improvements
Speaker:in growth time and yields? I think anyone who's in this space is obviously looking
Speaker:to, you know, if we can— a couple of days could mean a big deal
Speaker:for some of these smaller farms, especially shaving off the time from those
Speaker:cycles. Some of the— oh, I keep calling them micro
Speaker:herbs, but the microgreens, you know, where they're only growing
Speaker:for 10 days, if you can shorten that cycle by 2 days, forget
Speaker:about how big the plant's grown, you know, that's phenomenal.
Speaker:So yeah, it's— for me, it's a real big thing. I want to
Speaker:be able to make a difference. And I think a lot of your guests have
Speaker:talked about, you know, food deserts, local food supply, and
Speaker:so forth. Well, if we're working with the really big guys,
Speaker:which we are at the moment, that's great, but it's not going
Speaker:to address some of those very local suppliers. We'll have to do a little bit
Speaker:on the pricing machine the accessibility model. And I
Speaker:think we've got the tools there to do it. It's just, it's something
Speaker:that we will layer on as we build the product range and the
Speaker:company. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So as you
Speaker:know, I leave some time at the end of these conversations for any thoughts you
Speaker:have for your peers and your colleagues in the industry. And I think it
Speaker:helps to keep a dialogue going, and it helps to just have
Speaker:my guests talk about what's on their mind in a way that they feel like
Speaker:they can share it in some sort of community forum or whatever
Speaker:space we're creating here. But I've been glad to have—
Speaker:giving my guests this opportunity. We've been hearing some interesting thoughts, and
Speaker:I'm just curious about what your thoughts are as we get ready to head
Speaker:into this conference. And I'll be connecting to a lot of your peers and
Speaker:colleagues in the space. Any thoughts that you have? Yeah, I think
Speaker:at the moment, There's a huge herd
Speaker:mentality that's going on in the vertical farming space.
Speaker:There's been something of an assumption of one
Speaker:size fits all, that just because one farm isn't going
Speaker:well, that's the end of the vertical farming technology.
Speaker:I think what people have to do is— oh, it's actually interesting, that throws me
Speaker:back to semiconductor days. So I shared
Speaker:a flight back from— oh, I'm going to have to say California
Speaker:because I can't remember if it was the top end or the bottom end. But
Speaker:I was with Jamie Urquhart, who is one of the founders of ARM.
Speaker:ARM, the microprocessor company, which is in your mobile phone and
Speaker:car and everything else on the planet. So Jamie's an interesting
Speaker:character, and he had just joined a venture capital
Speaker:fund. And I was teasing him a little bit, and
Speaker:he said, you know what? Actually, before I joined a venture capital
Speaker:fund, I thought I'd be different. I thought I'd go in there. I thought I'd
Speaker:be the voice of reason. And now I realize I'm buying along with the
Speaker:rest of them. It's just one of the sheep in the
Speaker:herd. Yeah. And I think there's a danger of that that's going
Speaker:on. I think we all look at the news flow
Speaker:and we assume that it's,
Speaker:you know, horrific. And yet, when you actually talk to people out there,
Speaker:that's not really what's going on. It's what's in the news.
Speaker:And if you just look at what's in the news,
Speaker:you wouldn't go out for fear of being stabbed or shot or whatever. You'd stay
Speaker:at home. I think people have to stop looking
Speaker:at things. You know, this is a horrible thing to say to an American. Oh,
Speaker:you're not an American really originally, are you? No, I wasn't born here,
Speaker:but yeah. Now I would consider myself an American, yes. Yeah, okay.
Speaker:So one of the things that struck me about the States is this
Speaker:fascinating fact came out just recently that a couple of years
Speaker:back there was a survey done that says 85% of Americans believe that America
Speaker:is the best country in the world. And I think that, that's great.
Speaker:The next statistic that came out was 40% of Americans have a
Speaker:passport. And you go, 45% of
Speaker:Americans think it's the best country in the world, they've never been to any other
Speaker:country. Yeah. And I think there's a little bit of that
Speaker:going on in the indoor growing market, of people just listening to
Speaker:what people are saying, getting brainwashed. I'm not saying that
Speaker:America isn't the greatest country, I'm just saying that, you know,
Speaker:we should all be making decisions based on what
Speaker:facts we can get our hands on, not what perceptions that we have, because
Speaker:the world is different. And you see the stories of the guys up in
Speaker:Finland who are making I don't know if I can say
Speaker:Lusgarta. Those guys are doing
Speaker:great with lettuce. People say it's not possible to grow lettuce in a vertical farm
Speaker:and make money. Well, yes it is. And of course in the Middle
Speaker:East also, you know, I think it's important to draw
Speaker:on that. I think another aspect is thinking
Speaker:about what really is the difference between a greenhouse and a vertical
Speaker:farm. You hear a lot of People talking about,
Speaker:you know, all this money that's been thrown into vertical farming, and if only greenhouses
Speaker:had access to it, or the glasshouse industry. But actually,
Speaker:if they're developing LEDs and HVAC and so forth,
Speaker:all of these things are just as applicable. So it's a rising tide
Speaker:that lifts all boats. And, you know, there's the real sort of hybrid
Speaker:model there as well. So yeah, it's definitely
Speaker:great to see more of the greenhouse manufacturers who've had
Speaker:such a head start. And they talk about how much production comes out of a
Speaker:country as small as Holland, you know, in terms of like the greenhouse
Speaker:production and all the technology and all the experience they've had, decades
Speaker:of innovation happening. And to see that coming into the vertical farming space,
Speaker:to see where there's hybrid models that are being applied, I think that makes a
Speaker:lot of sense. And I think people— there's always opportunities to learn from
Speaker:other industries that have I had a leg up and been doing this for a
Speaker:while. So I think to your point, it's helpful to see everyone
Speaker:taking a breather and also seeing that there's a lot to learn from each other,
Speaker:and there's no one company that has it all figured out.
Speaker:And I think this idea of not knocking a system until you've had
Speaker:the opportunity to try it or try it in your environment, and it may not
Speaker:work for your environment, it may not work for your farm, but that doesn't mean
Speaker:it's not a technology that could be suitable for other environments. And I think it's
Speaker:just just having this open approach to a guest.
Speaker:Everyone's consistently saying the same thing, you know, it's still early days within
Speaker:specifically vertical farming, and I think it's helpful for us to have, you know, an
Speaker:open attitude towards, you know, working together and seeing how
Speaker:the things that are— that we're coming across, the companies, the new technologies, can be
Speaker:applicable and beneficial for everyone. So I'm glad that you're
Speaker:echoing things that have been said on this show as well, so I appreciate that.
Speaker:Yes. So any closing thoughts as you think about the future and where you're headed?
Speaker:Just that we are heading into some very exciting times. I think
Speaker:we have, as an industry, we've got to get this right.
Speaker:I think whether it's glasshouse, vertical farms, or whatever, we've
Speaker:got to move the agricultural output forwards.
Speaker:And I think we're a very, very big part of that story. I think
Speaker:this staggering number is this story of agriculture using 70% of the
Speaker:Earth's water, and now we're going to increase agriculture by 50%,
Speaker:and you're going, well, that means there's not gonna be any Perrier,
Speaker:doesn't it? The math on that does not work out. Yeah,
Speaker:so we've got to do something about it, and I think
Speaker:you're very much in the center of that with this podcast, with this show,
Speaker:helping pull together the— pull together the community. I think that's
Speaker:fantastic, and Yeah. So I think you were in the right place at the right
Speaker:time as well. Well, thanks again to Mickey
Speaker:for connecting us and also just helping me discover all
Speaker:these new companies, all these new founders and CEOs with these amazing
Speaker:stories. And I think all these— I'm learning with every episode, with every
Speaker:conversation. And I know my listeners are just getting just as excited at the
Speaker:potential for what's happening. So again, we keep saying it on repeat, but it's
Speaker:still early days and there's so many exciting opportunities that are happening in this space.
Speaker:And I'm Grateful to you for sharing your story, your inspiring
Speaker:origin story as well, because of all the different ways to come into this
Speaker:space. You know, there's no one way, and I think people continue to get
Speaker:inspired on all the different paths that people are taking to
Speaker:contribute to what we're all working towards. So thanks again for coming on and sharing
Speaker:your story. It's been an absolute pleasure, Hari. Thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker:And so Zayndu, zayndu.com. Anywhere else you
Speaker:want to send folks to? connect with you? I think that would be the main
Speaker:one, the best place to get us. Yeah, we'll make sure all the links are
Speaker:in the show notes as well. Thanks for your time, Ralph. Thank you, Harry.
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