This is a powerhouse session where we dissected the layout of coed sports and women's athletics. We didn't stop there; we took a deep dive into the costly illusions sold by universities, challenging the depreciating value of college degrees. We threw punches at the rising tide of misinformation, highlighting Google's image bias and the potential warping of history. Plus, stay sharp with us as we question the push for a $50 minimum wage and its ripple effects on labor markets. Powered by Harper Plus Accounting.

Here are the top takeaways

1. **The Value of Friendly Competition in Coed Sports**: The hosts emphasize the importance of maintaining a friendly and inclusive atmosphere in coed sports leagues by not going all out, to ensure everyone can enjoy the game.

2. **The Educational Market and Financial Choices**: Concerns are voiced about the financial decisions families make when choosing colleges, with the hosts questioning the prioritization of 'college experience' over cost-effective educational pursuits.

3. **Devaluation of College Degrees**: The idea is proposed that the value of a college degree may be diminishing, in part due to the saturation of degree holders in the job market, drawing a comparison with the perceived worth of a high school diploma decades ago.

4. **Questioning Changes in Energy Policy**: The conversation includes critical perspectives on Ohio’s energy policies, particularly around nuclear power and the impact of electric vehicles on the state’s electricity grid.

5. **Gender Differences and Societal Roles**: The hosts delve into the biological differences between men and women, expressing their views on the complementary nature of gender interactions and criticizing the push towards a genderless society.

6. **Minimum Wage and Economic Impact**: The proposed $50 minimum wage in California is analyzed, with fears that excessively high labor costs may produce negative consequences such as a booming black market and decreased opportunities for entry-level workers.

7. **Immigration and Border Policies**: Alarming statistics on illegal immigration are presented, prompting a discussion on the adequacy of current policies and the impact of President Biden's executive decisions on the border crisis.

8. **Supreme Court’s Selectivity in Hearing Cases**: Insight into the Supreme Court's discretion in granting certiorari, the process of petitioning for review of cases of broad significance, and the principles of judicial restraint and precedent-setting.

Harper CPA Plus

Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.

info@commonsenseohioshow.com

Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.

Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.

Brett Johnson is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.

Copyright 2024 Common Sense Ohio

Steve Palmer [: 00:00:00

Alright. Here we go. It is February 23rd, spring rapidly approaching. And it doesn't even feel like we had winter, but spring is rapidly approaching. That doesn't make any sense, but this does. We're at Common Sense Ohio coming at you from channel511.com. And if you are curious, about, our show and what's going on and you wanna get all the back episodes, then you can certainly do that at, I just said commonsenseohioshowdot com. Commonsenseohioshow.com, where we have a backlog of episodes where you can check out the little shorts and Norm's blog, Brett's blog.

Steve Palmer [: 00:00:30

You can look at my blog, but it'll be a real quick look because there aren't any there are not any, entries into my blog. Maybe one day, I promise. I don't really promise. But anyway, we are brought to you week in week out by Harper Plus. Account. He was a guest here a couple of weeks, and he is in the throes probably underwater by now of tax season. And, you know, it's so absurd when I when I first heard, like, tax season, I was like, yeah, we're busy all the time. I don't care about your tax season.

Steve Palmer [: 00:00:54

And then you see what they really go through. It's like they do all the work in 1 year the year's work in, like, 3 months of time. Yeah. So they are definitely buried. But that doesn't mean that you can't contact them from help for help. It doesn't mean that you can't contact them for tax planning. That's Harper Plus Accounting. Our accountant, our sponsor could be yours.

Steve Palmer [: 00:01:12

So with that, we will plow forward, every for those who have been paying attention, I know there are 1,000,000, and if you're part of that, the numbers are growing rapidly. You know, we talk about a World War 2 fact of the day or at least what happened on this day in World War 2, and this was sort of a big one. We had George Pardos from the, Vet Radio Syndicate in here a few weeks ago, and we talked about this. We're gonna talk about it again on February 23, 1945. Right? Or 44. The fly was raised at Iwo Jima. Ira Hayes, the ballad of Ira Hayes, Johnny Cash, I think, did a version of that. Maybe wrote the version of that.

Steve Palmer [: 00:01:47

I don't know.

Norm Murdock [: 00:01:48

Didn't didn't write it, but, yeah, he recorded.

Steve Palmer [: 00:01:50

A great one too. You know, that, just a just a phenomenal a phenomenal rendition of that song. But, yeah, the Marines, raised the flag on Iwo Jima. I know there's been sort of some discussion about whether that was a staged photograph or not, but it happened. It is a historic moment. Still to this day, the marines, celebrate that. I think that George say he he was there and saw that? No. I mean, did he go back and visit? Did he say he visited? He visited.

Steve Palmer [: 00:02:18

He visited. He was visiting. That's what

Norm Murdock [: 00:02:19

I know. Yeah. It's kind of a pilgrimage. My brother who was a marine officer visited there and, one of our other guests also, visited there. So another former marine that we've had on the show.

Steve Palmer [: 00:02:34

It it probably is an awe inspiring place if you're a marine and you you like that history and you're part of that heritage. Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:02:40

So the marine corps, memorial, the monument in Washington DC is of raising the flag on Mount Suribachi, as you know, with that big bronze

Steve Palmer [: 00:02:51

huge I was there not just last last spring, I was there.

Norm Murdock [: 00:02:54

Very impressive. You know, the the one like, probably the most newsworthy thing in the last few years that came out was, the the guy who wrote just a fabulous book, Clint Eastwood turned it into a movie called Flags of Our Father or Flag of Our Fathers, James Bradley. Yeah. So he was one of the marines who toured. He was first name I can't I can't remember the other guy.

Steve Palmer [: 00:03:31

Well, there were 6. Harlan Bach

Norm Murdock [: 00:03:33

Well, I'm talking about the 3 survivors.

Steve Palmer [: 00:03:35

Oh, the 3 survivors I got

Norm Murdock [: 00:03:36

because the other guys died.

Steve Palmer [: 00:03:37

Well, let's go through them. Harlan Bach was killed in action. Harold Keller, he was not. Franklin Sousley killed in action. Michael Strank killed in action. Harold Schultz, and Ira Hayes.

Norm Murdock [: 00:03:49

Yeah. So you notice James Bradley's father, is not mentioned there. And so what happened the last few years, it it was always thought that, his father, was one of the flag raisers and he was ordered, to the tour as if he and he would not talk about it with his family. And he he he died, and always kept this secret that the Pentagon, had ordered him to listen. You you're gonna go on tour. You're going to act as if you were one of the group on the second staged flag raising because they wanted a bigger flag. The original raising was a very small flag. And for the cameras, for the media, they they brought this big, huge flag up, and they restaged the the planting of the flag.

Norm Murdock [: 00:04:42

And, Bradley well, he wasn't even there. And and the way it was discovered, there was this mother of 1 of the marines who had said for decades that the the backside of her son, she could recognize, if you can believe this, from Joe Rosenthal's photograph, She could recognize that that was her son by the shape of his back. And she said, that was my son. And and when they finally did some forensics on the photo, they noticed that the gear of the person who they thought was mister Bradley was not the gear that a navy corpsman would wear. Like, not the right belt, not the right socks, not the right this, that, and the other thing. And the Marine Corps officially acknowledged that it was one of these other 6 guys and and not mister Bradley who who his entire life had to live this story. And his son writes this beautiful book about his father, and and none of it was true. I mean, isn't that devastating? Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:05:45

That that's terrible.

Steve Palmer [: 00:05:47

Just classic governmental.

Norm Murdock [: 00:05:48

Classic. Right? And and and it shows you that generation, like, they would never spill the beans. He went to his death

Steve Palmer [: 00:05:55

He took took it to his grave.

Norm Murdock [: 00:05:56

Living a lie for his country because he was selling war bonds. It was the most successful war bond drive in US history. And and, you know, it was important for the war effort that this this thing all go right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:06:10

And

Norm Murdock [: 00:06:10

and when Ira developed his drinking problem on that tour, you know, they had to take him off the tour. The Ira Hayes died in a in a ditch, you know

Steve Palmer [: 00:06:23

Yeah. I had a rough life after He

Norm Murdock [: 00:06:24

was an alcoholic

Steve Palmer [: 00:06:25

and some other problems.

Norm Murdock [: 00:06:26

He had he had PTSD. No question.

Steve Palmer [: 00:06:29

Yeah. And that was before we were talking to George Parris about this here too. That was that was before benefits and and help for those guys. I mean, they were just sort of unleashed on society and said, figure it out.

Norm Murdock [: 00:06:37

And he was a Pima Indian, went back to the reservation. You could imagine how much help he probably got there.

Brett Johnson [: 00:06:43

Yeah. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:06:43

We probably got help getting booze. Exactly. Yeah. That's, that's too bad. But, anyway, great, a great way to start the show. Yeah. You know, just a phenomenal event in United States history, United States Marine Corps history. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:06:57

So, anyway, off we go. What do we got?

Norm Murdock [: 00:07:01

Well, I wanna show this particular chart.

Steve Palmer [: 00:07:07

So Norm's got visual aids

Norm Murdock [: 00:07:09

on his phone. I wanna

Steve Palmer [: 00:07:10

show this

Norm Murdock [: 00:07:11

chart. If

Steve Palmer [: 00:07:11

you would have shared this with us before, we might have been able to put this on screen.

Norm Murdock [: 00:07:15

Well, I, you know, I tried my best, actually to do a printout. So I'm gonna I'm gonna take this right off.

Brett Johnson [: 00:07:21

Watch your watch your headphones. Wrong camera.

Steve Palmer [: 00:07:26

Wrong camera. Wrong camera. Norm.

Norm Murdock [: 00:07:28

Wrong camera. Yeah. There you go. There you go. So this particular chart

Steve Palmer [: 00:07:32

is Yeah. You can we can't see that. Well, it yeah. Take it back. Pull it back.

Norm Murdock [: 00:07:37

I think the camera can catch it. But you could catch the general drift that it's small on this side and then raises up as as time goes on. So this is, like, from 2016 to 2024, customs and border patrol official statistics.

Steve Palmer [: 00:07:55

Alright.

Norm Murdock [: 00:07:55

And what it shows is the unprecedented incredible growth in the numbers of illegal, immigration to the United States.

Steve Palmer [: 00:08:07

All of that was to say that there is there are 10,000,000 people they're estimating that have entered the border in the last, I don't know, what, two and a half years, 3 years?

Norm Murdock [: 00:08:14

So 8,000,000 customs and border patrol says roughly 8,000,000 on the southern border, 2,000,000 in other places besides the southern border, and another 2,000,000 in gotaways. So roughly 12,000,000.

Steve Palmer [: 00:08:28

That's such an insane number.

Norm Murdock [: 00:08:30

And and they they can't give you a precise number because of the guy know. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:08:34

They don't even know.

Norm Murdock [: 00:08:35

They don't even know.

Steve Palmer [: 00:08:35

They don't even know.

Norm Murdock [: 00:08:36

And and increasingly, they are seeing people from places like China, you know.

Steve Palmer [: 00:08:42

But why not?

Norm Murdock [: 00:08:43

Just just

Steve Palmer [: 00:08:43

I mean, look. If you were an American if you're an enemy of the United States and you thought, man, if only I could get in and infiltrate the United States and start spying, boy, that would be awesome.

Norm Murdock [: 00:08:53

Well, they're not bringing their wives and kids. So They're military

Steve Palmer [: 00:08:57

agents. So they're coming in unfettered, unchecked, to do whatever the heck they they don't even know they're here. Brian.

Brett Johnson [: 00:09:03

So so do a quick math. So 12,000,000. That is that is you you put New York and Los Angeles, which is ranked number 1, number 2 in the largest cities in United States. That's a that's 11,000,000. Right. We brought in That's

Steve Palmer [: 00:09:18

insane. We

Brett Johnson [: 00:09:18

brought in Insane. This they come combination of New York City and Los Angeles together.

Steve Palmer [: 00:09:24

Right. That's just

Brett Johnson [: 00:09:25

We we made that's that's reprehensible.

Norm Murdock [: 00:09:27

Yeah. It's it's That's a

Steve Palmer [: 00:09:28

lot of people. It is a complete abdication Right. Of governmental responsibility. Right. And I don't care what side of the political aisle you're on. I mean, look, you wanna have more immigration, then figure out a way to do it lawfully and figure out a way to meter people in so at least we know who's coming. But letting people in like this is is a complete, just like I said, abdication of your government responsibility. And then, of course, Biden says, well, I I love the Dems, how they play this game.

Steve Palmer [: 00:09:54

They say, well, you know, the Republicans this is the Republicans' fault because they wouldn't let us pass legislation that we need to stop it. Yet Biden Biden has an executive pen for every other problem, it seems like. So if you wanna have this if you wanna have transgender bathrooms, well, we've got the pen for that. Right. But we don't have the pen to stop the borders, which is your responsibility. And then now that he is facing some political backlash in the polls I mean, look, Trump is ahead in many polls, in this mystical run against Biden, should those 2 ever actually square up for the vote in in November. Now Biden is talking about doing something as an executive order. So how is he gonna play both sides of that fence?

Norm Murdock [: 00:10:30

Right. How does he square that with this Ukraine bill compromised situation where they he said, I need the Republicans to authorize me to shut the border down. Right. I need power and money from the Republicans. And now with that deal blowing up

Steve Palmer [: 00:10:46

He's just gonna

Norm Murdock [: 00:10:47

do it. He suddenly has discovered that I have executive powers.

Steve Palmer [: 00:10:52

Right. I have the power.

Norm Murdock [: 00:10:53

So it was bullshit all along. It was just a lie. A total lie.

Steve Palmer [: 00:10:57

It's a political maneuver. And it you know what's remarkable to me?

Norm Murdock [: 00:11:01

And why is that, Steve? Because it's an election year.

Steve Palmer [: 00:11:04

Right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:11:04

Right. What's your right. State of the Union's about to come up, and he's gonna do a little duty here. He like, he's gonna do a little he's gonna do a tweak with

Steve Palmer [: 00:11:12

his meth again.

Norm Murdock [: 00:11:13

With his with his executive powers. He's gonna do a little something, and then he's gonna do State of the Union speech. Right? And say, hey, I'm a guy to fix the border.

Steve Palmer [: 00:11:23

This is the emperor's new clothes. This is I mean, look. This story is as old as the hills. Right. You know, it's like, he's up there. These are obvious lies. Obvious. They're obvious,

Norm Murdock [: 00:11:33

the simple maneuvers. Absolutely.

Steve Palmer [: 00:11:35

And the like, either what what what's astounding to me is people believe it, or they know it's a lie, and they play along. Right. And probably both are going on. The media, they're look, they're not that stupid. They know that all you have to do is look at this guy and say there are serious, serious concerns about his, mental capacity at this point. I mean

Brett Johnson [: 00:11:56

That seems to be asked of every press conference. You cannot. To be at least.

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:00

Yeah. Can't Yeah. Avoid that conclusion. Now when Trump was president, people were banging that drum all day long to take a take a company that says, do this. But now the media says, no. I forget who it was. I saw her on CNN, I think. She said, no.

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:13

I rode a plane with Biden, and he was as sharp as attack, and he was able to do it. You just got up

Norm Murdock [: 00:12:18

for you just got up from a nap.

Brett Johnson [: 00:12:19

Who isn't who isn't sharpened attack after a nap?

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:21

I am. Probably had

Norm Murdock [: 00:12:23

a rock star energy drink

Brett Johnson [: 00:12:24

or something.

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:25

No. He had his he had his pudding and was watching Murder, She Wrote.

Norm Murdock [: 00:12:30

He's always had trouble with the truth. Right? He's he's always exaggerated or just outright fabricated his resume. You know, he was a plagiarist. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:40

He was a lion SOB from the outset.

Norm Murdock [: 00:12:42

His whole career, he's been a liar.

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:44

Talking about being top in his class at, law school. It's just just Yeah. B s. Yale law school. It's all b s. Right. He's just a liar.

Norm Murdock [: 00:12:51

Right. He he marched with Martin Luther King. He he he he was, He

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:55

was on the trains. Remember the train lie? I forget what that was all about. He was on the trains. I it's just it's such BS.

Norm Murdock [: 00:13:00

Me and Corn Pop. You know, so as I say here most sincerely, frequently, I love everybody And and not nothing about this illegal immigration. I don't care if they're coming from Norway and France. I don't it it's not that they have brown skin, you know, like my brown skin. It has nothing to do with that. And as proof of that, as proof of the deleterious effect of illegal immigration, the job creation statistics recently came out. And since June of 2018, so that's mid Trump. Right? Since June of 2018, all job creation has been non native Americans.

Norm Murdock [: 00:13:44

Native US citizens, Native Americans of all races, of all genders well, there's only 2. But Americans of any stripe, their job creation has been a flat line since 2018. All of the new jobs have gone to non native Americans. So you can see who's really probably backing

Steve Palmer [: 00:14:07

Right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:14:07

This illegal immigration.

Steve Palmer [: 00:14:09

It's just People who

Norm Murdock [: 00:14:10

want to oppress inflation effects of wages. Right? You're keeping wage and labor prices down by letting this stream of human of humanity That's

Steve Palmer [: 00:14:24

how I like to make it it's an it's a theory anyway. I mean, look, you have to ask why. And I I always every week I ask why. It's like, look, anybody knows that this is bad. I mean, anybody who's got half a brain can say, look, we should not have open borders with people pouring in over the walls unless, a, you just wanna destroy the country because a country without borders isn't a country at all. Right. B, you want power, so you can you're just assuming maybe these people will vote for you. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:14:49

Or, c, like you're saying, I mean, you've got some other agenda. So Do

Norm Murdock [: 00:14:52

you ever hear that

Steve Palmer [: 00:14:53

inflationary policies are so bad, so we're gonna act like inflation doesn't exist.

Norm Murdock [: 00:14:57

Well, do you ever hear, like, the US Chamber of Commerce or or any big city Chamber of Commerce except maybe along the the Texas border come out, you know, and and decry illegal immigration and yet the cities are getting destroyed. We have people sleeping.

Steve Palmer [: 00:15:14

Well, even even quote sanctuary cities are saying, we can't take another one. We can't take one more.

Norm Murdock [: 00:15:18

But where are the chambers?

Steve Palmer [: 00:15:19

We're we're sending out calls for people to open their private residences to take people in. It's like Right. Alright. Now live it out. Play it out. And watch what you preach. Right.

Brett Johnson [: 00:15:28

Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:15:29

But who you know, when you when you ask why is why why is this a weird combination between big business and the Democrat party, like, in favor of this mass illegal immigration? I think the answer is wage suppression.

Steve Palmer [: 00:15:46

That's one answer.

Norm Murdock [: 00:15:47

I think that's the big answer. I mean, I think in agriculture, in in factory farms

Brett Johnson [: 00:15:54

Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:15:54

Man, I'll tell you what. You know, the the the conditions, for example, out where I live where that, gigantic egg farm

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:02

Yeah. The old chicken farm.

Norm Murdock [: 00:16:03

Right. The biggest Department of Labor fine in Department of Labor of labor history was about 15 years ago, and it was, like, 50, 60 people, all men, crammed into an unheated building. That was their sleeping quarters Yeah. For the company.

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:20

Making crap wage.

Norm Murdock [: 00:16:21

And making nothing. Right? And they were all illegals. I mean and and this is for the this is to keep egg prices down. I mean so so housewives and and frankly, men we all, consumers, need to we need to ask ourselves

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:37

a question. But here's the thing. But you can't inverse this. This is logic that I always fight. Everybody says, well, you like I mean, you you complain about illegal immigration, but you like it. You're you're part of it. I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm not.

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:48

Look, I'm gonna pay the price for eggs, whatever the price is.

Norm Murdock [: 00:16:50

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:51

And if that happens to be low, I'm gonna buy more eggs. If it happens to be high, I'm gonna buy fewer eggs. But at least let the market figure it out

Norm Murdock [: 00:16:58

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:58

With our, current governmental structure. Now if you wanna have a debate about how much how much, we're paying people or how much or how much we're taxing people's wages, I I'll have that discussion because, you know, that can change the equation. So if you're gonna have if we are going to have fair market labor, grow our food, work our fields, clean our plate, whatever it would be, whatever job it would be, or even run our companies. I don't care. But at least level the playing field and make that labor pay the same rate that the rest of us are paying. And if you wanna talk about taxes, I'll loan them across the board. I'm all for it. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:17:33

But but to artificially change the equation by permitting unlawful immigration, I mean, that's no solution.

Brett Johnson [: 00:17:39

Well, I wanna expand on your the wage suppression and I wanna get my head wrapped around that in but also thinking about the big advocacy of raising minimum wage. That doesn't that doesn't unless I'm missing something here.

Steve Palmer [: 00:17:55

Political jostle. So what they do so what they're doing so we're gonna raise we're gonna I think, in most in California or in San Francisco, they're saying they want $50 an hour.

Brett Johnson [: 00:18:04

Yeah. I mean, that's sticking my head when when

Steve Palmer [: 00:18:05

we wanna create unemployment, do that. So what's it gonna do? It's gonna create a black market. So now we're gonna start employing, people who are off the books, people who are off the grid, people who are not paying taxes to fund all this nonsense that you're talking about. So they can then, say they have a high minimum wage, and they can then also go buy their cheap eggs because they've got labor that'll fly under the radar screen. And they don't have to pay taxes. They don't have to pay them minimum wage because they're illegal anyway.

Norm Murdock [: 00:18:32

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:18:32

And, that's such a enormous army. So my product would cost say, a carton of eggs would cost $10 at their proposed minimum wage, not market wage necessarily, but you can add market wage. But to say a proposed minimum wage, eggs would cost $10 a carton. If you don't have the labor cost, then you can charge 5 because your labor costs are cut in half or maybe even by 2 thirds if you if you don't have to pay taxes or pay minimum wage or go, or just pay people under the table. Look. I employ people in my business I have over the years. I'm not a giant employer, but I've had w two employees. It costs a lot to have a w two employee.

Norm Murdock [: 00:19:04

That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:19:05

They're like, when you're a w two employee so my first job, where I worked one day at Kmart one time. Right? And they see your check, and you see what you paid and or what they withheld in taxes. But you're not seeing the other side, what the employer is paying.

Brett Johnson [: 00:19:18

The top line's a happy line. The bottom line's the unhappy line.

Norm Murdock [: 00:19:21

Unhappy line. And now

Steve Palmer [: 00:19:22

the unhappier happy unhappy line is what the gut what your employer is paying Yeah. That you don't even know about. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, as as I think we had Glenn Harper here,

Norm Murdock [: 00:19:31

it's like

Steve Palmer [: 00:19:31

there'd be a revolt if people really knew how much they're paying in taxes. Well, these illegal immigrants are paying 0 in taxes. Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:19:37

And and I can see and I can see even

Steve Palmer [: 00:19:39

And their employees are paying 0 Right. To employ them.

Brett Johnson [: 00:19:42

And I wonder if this can lead to and this is an extreme but just that you know another piece of this human trafficking. That you you know those that are bringing in you know male workers on the sly. Mhmm. Money changes hands differently.

Steve Palmer [: 00:19:56

Sure. It just becomes a barter. Exactly. Right? Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:20:00

That's It it it doesn't fix itself by a higher minimum wage.

Steve Palmer [: 00:20:03

I I

Brett Johnson [: 00:20:03

don't know. They're just all these ways minimum wage. You know?

Steve Palmer [: 00:20:06

This has been studied time and time again. If you raise the minimum wage beyond the fair market value of whatever that job is, then what you're really doing is hurting the downtrodden, hurting the people entering the workforce, whether they be kids or whether they be adults who are starting over or whether they be minorities, whoever it is, because they don't have any experience. You're hurting anybody who wants to enter into the market that doesn't have experience. Because if I have to pay $50 an hour upstairs for a law clerk, I'm not gonna go find the 1st year law clerk who's got zero experience. I'm gonna find a 3rd year, maybe even a a law a law student who flunked the bar exam because at least I can get more for my $50 than somebody who has zero experience. So now the, the young minority kid who wants to go work at McDonald's doesn't get that job. So now he doesn't have any money. And now he not only does he not get that job, he can't advance within the company.

Steve Palmer [: 00:21:00

My first job

Brett Johnson [: 00:21:01

And and and and accept all the benefits that McDonald's actually has.

Steve Palmer [: 00:21:04

That's correct. Right.

Brett Johnson [: 00:21:05

Which they have a lot, honestly.

Steve Palmer [: 00:21:07

My first job was a construction worker. My first real job. I was a construction worker. What what did I do the 1st day? Hey, boy. You move those 2 by fours from that pile over here, where we're gonna cut them and do it. What can I cut? Nope. Your job is to move them. Now if they had to pay me $50 for that, they would have hired somebody else who could have done more.

Steve Palmer [: 00:21:26

Mhmm. And slowly, what happened is I learned how to use the circular saw, and then I learned how to frame, and then I learned how to frame roofs and rafters and hips and valleys. And I learned I I learned on the job. I never would have had the opportunity to learn on the job if they had a $50 minimum wage because they would have hired me.

Brett Johnson [: 00:21:43

Alright. And

Steve Palmer [: 00:21:44

and I think I think yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:21:45

I think they tickle you know, and I've I've brought this up to a couple people too that, and their their eyes just kinda going, oh, Never thought of it that way that and and a minimum wage job is not a career.

Steve Palmer [: 00:21:56

No. It's an entry.

Brett Johnson [: 00:21:57

It's an entry. Right. Right. And and if you look at it that way and yes, I get it. A lot of people that's all they can do. Is a is a minimum wage job I get it that maybe that's

Steve Palmer [: 00:22:08

all they can

Norm Murdock [: 00:22:08

do but but

Steve Palmer [: 00:22:10

I would say I don't know the percentage but I don't get a very high percentage can do more Right.

Brett Johnson [: 00:22:15

So look, the the The $50 per hour is only covering the small amount that

Norm Murdock [: 00:22:20

they can't.

Steve Palmer [: 00:22:21

Acknowledge is the poverty line is not a static or people below the poverty line, that's not a static group. Right. It changes. Right. So I once was below the poverty line. I was about 17, 18 years old, making 3:35 an hour on the construction site.

Brett Johnson [: 00:22:37

Right. Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:22:38

Right? And you weren't supporting the household? No. You were supplementing the household because your mom and dad and other siblings getting whatever

Steve Palmer [: 00:22:46

Well, Norm, I wasn't really doing that. I was supplementing my beer habit. But you're not

Norm Murdock [: 00:22:51

I'm talking about you, the universal you, not yourself. I got you. Right?

Steve Palmer [: 00:22:56

Look. I I was able to gain experience. And because of that, the next year, I earned $6 an hour, and minimum wage was still 3.35. And then after that, I earned 9. Right. Now if I was out of law school or when I was in law school and I knocked on a door at 511 South High Street, where my mentor, a guy named William Meeks, Bill Meeks, owned the building and had one of the it was a premier defense lawyer. And if I would have demanded and insisted that he pay me $50 an hour or even at that time, like, 15 an hour, he would have said, In fact, what he told me is you should pay me.

Norm Murdock [: 00:23:26

Exactly.

Steve Palmer [: 00:23:27

And he was right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:23:28

Well, because it's an education you've got.

Steve Palmer [: 00:23:30

Yes. He was right. Because Because of that, because I was willing to work at Peanuts.

Norm Murdock [: 00:23:35

That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:23:35

I learned how to practice law. I learned how to open a file. I learned how to run a business, and I learned how to advance. So I was below the poverty line when I started, and I was well above the poverty line when I finished. And when I graduated law school, I was able to move forward and contribute to society. We are depriving our citizens, whether they be minorities, whether they be normal, run of the mill people day in and day out. Right. Whether they be white, black, green, yellow, we're depriving those people of the ability to enter the workforce at the lowest level in advance.

Norm Murdock [: 00:24:07

You know, we are revisiting issues that our country had really put to bed a 100 years ago. So there was an author by the name of Upton Sinclair that wrote a lot of, and he was a commie, he's a socialist, but he wrote a lot of very truthful books about things like child labor and abuse of people pre union, pre the union movement, that were abused, worked, you know, 80 hour weeks, you know, fell into big vats of goo and died. They just kept pouring the concrete right over them. And we're we're almost going back to that. So last week, maybe 2 weeks ago That's

Steve Palmer [: 00:24:47

an interesting thought. We we gotta we gotta unpack that.

Norm Murdock [: 00:24:49

You were talking about the you were talking about human trafficking. There was a 16 year old, I believe, Mexican or Venezuelan, boy working in a meat plant. Okay? Who was caught in into the conveyor belt system and and killed. Why do we have children from foreign countries, illegals?

Steve Palmer [: 00:25:09

How does workers comp apply that?

Norm Murdock [: 00:25:11

In a gdm effing meat plan. Yeah. Right?

Steve Palmer [: 00:25:14

Right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:25:14

In America. Right. I'm I'm very angry about that. I I defend that boy's life, and these daffy people that that think that they're full of charity and full of love, let all the illegal

Steve Palmer [: 00:25:27

sin. Slave labor.

Norm Murdock [: 00:25:28

You are your kindness is killing people.

Steve Palmer [: 00:25:32

No. What they were doing is serving their own interests under the guise of kindness.

Norm Murdock [: 00:25:36

Oh, gosh. I'm I'm virtuous.

Steve Palmer [: 00:25:38

Look at me. This is this is classic virtue.

Norm Murdock [: 00:25:41

Other people and all. Well, really, think of all of the whoring and prostitution that's going on by these children who owe 5, 6, $10,000 to their coyotes, and they have to work it off

Steve Palmer [: 00:25:54

Mhmm.

Norm Murdock [: 00:25:54

You know, on their backsides as children. You think that's kind? You think that's, you think that's virtuous?

Steve Palmer [: 00:26:01

Well, no. This is the same logic of giving your alcoholic child money to help him. Right. Right? You're not helping. No. You're contributing. No.

Norm Murdock [: 00:26:10

They say America is now the world's number one They're paying

Steve Palmer [: 00:26:13

an extortion.

Norm Murdock [: 00:26:15

Of child prostitution.

Steve Palmer [: 00:26:16

Of course.

Norm Murdock [: 00:26:17

Number 1 Why

Steve Palmer [: 00:26:17

wouldn't it be we've got 10,000,000 people coming in. You know, how many of those are children

Norm Murdock [: 00:26:21

We've outdone who

Steve Palmer [: 00:26:22

are being abused.

Norm Murdock [: 00:26:22

Yeah. Like, we've outdone Thailand. Like, we're the place.

Steve Palmer [: 00:26:26

Awesome.

Norm Murdock [: 00:26:26

We're we're if sex sex tourism come to America because there's all these South American girls that are available now. Graham. You know? Right. Congratulations, liberals. You did that.

Steve Palmer [: 00:26:40

Well, look. There's a couple other stats I wanted to pull up here because, it just sort of goes along with the numbers you were talking on. And these these kind of memes, I always sort of resist, but this one I couldn't at the time. On in on November 5, 2020 this was a Facebook meme, so it's gotta be true. On on November 5, 2020, mortgage rates are 2.75%. Gas is a 100 or a dollar 80 a gallon. And, you know, people are posting it back then because we're posting it now to compare this.

Brett Johnson [: 00:27:07

What year again? Say that again. When?

Steve Palmer [: 00:27:08

November 5, 2020.

Brett Johnson [: 00:27:10

2020. Okay.

Norm Murdock [: 00:27:11

You know, election day.

Steve Palmer [: 00:27:12

Election day.

Brett Johnson [: 00:27:12

Oh, oh, oh, I gotcha.

Steve Palmer [: 00:27:14

So can you, and and think about that for a second. What has changed?

Norm Murdock [: 00:27:18

Not everything.

Steve Palmer [: 00:27:20

No. But what what chain I mean, what circumstances changed other than bad government policy

Brett Johnson [: 00:27:25

That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:27:25

That would change that?

Norm Murdock [: 00:27:26

Right. That is what happened. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:27:27

It's exactly what happened. Yeah. That is what happened. Well, we didn't have a choice because of no. COVID was weird. We were done with it. Yeah. It was over.

Steve Palmer [: 00:27:34

It was all over but the shouting.

Norm Murdock [: 00:27:36

The stuff he did day 1, you know

Steve Palmer [: 00:27:38

Immediately. Put the yoke on the oil and gas industry.

Norm Murdock [: 00:27:41

Getting rid of title 40

Steve Palmer [: 00:27:42

Still going on.

Norm Murdock [: 00:27:43

Getting rid of remain in Mexico.

Steve Palmer [: 00:27:45

Who's our oil and gases are now? I forget her name. But now she's saying, like

Norm Murdock [: 00:27:48

The ex governor of Michigan. Well, I can't think of her name either. But she she said

Steve Palmer [: 00:27:53

put a moratorium, but we're not producing any. Now look. Yeah. Europe needs it.

Norm Murdock [: 00:27:56

Yeah. The CNG.

Steve Palmer [: 00:27:58

We have it. Right.

Brett Johnson [: 00:28:00

Yes. Natural gas. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:28:01

Yeah. The

Norm Murdock [: 00:28:01

Red bear was interviewing Zelensky from Ukraine, and he asked him about this CNG. Because what what it's now gonna free up is Europe is gonna be buying CNG from Russia.

Steve Palmer [: 00:28:12

From Russia. Right? And we could sell it to them.

Norm Murdock [: 00:28:14

So it's financing Putin's war machine.

Steve Palmer [: 00:28:16

These people are it's so stupid. I mean, it's so insane.

Norm Murdock [: 00:28:18

And that was Biden's Biden's biggest move.

Steve Palmer [: 00:28:21

We're not gonna contribute to the cleanest fuel source in the world. Right.

Brett Johnson [: 00:28:24

Right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:28:25

Right. Let's cut them off.

Steve Palmer [: 00:28:26

Right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:28:27

Beautiful. Like, beautiful job.

Steve Palmer [: 00:28:28

Natural gas. I mean, it's like it's clean. It burns clean, and we've got it refined down to a down to a science. But we're not gonna contribute that. We're gonna let Russia do it so they can get rich, and we can't.

Norm Murdock [: 00:28:37

Right. And so they can finance the war.

Steve Palmer [: 00:28:39

And then they can finance the war that we are Backing out. Supposedly Yeah. Supposedly against. Right? So it's

Norm Murdock [: 00:28:45

like We've invested a 113,000,000,000 into that war, and there's now a bill. And, again, another new bill, another 60 $1,000,000,000

Steve Palmer [: 00:28:55

that that we wanna give. Change I can't I can't help myself. I know you've got a list.

Norm Murdock [: 00:29:00

Go ahead, man.

Steve Palmer [: 00:29:00

But, you know, the other the we're speaking of Biden's pen and politics. Did you see the latest on student loans? Now he's now he's gonna send an email Yes. To I don't know how many kids.

Norm Murdock [: 00:29:11

1,200,000,000 in forgiveness.

Steve Palmer [: 00:29:13

Yeah. And he's gonna forgive their student loans. Like, if this isn't a political and what's it cost to send that email, I wonder?

Norm Murdock [: 00:29:19

Well, this is his reelection Hail Mary pass. Yes. But what's it cost?

Steve Palmer [: 00:29:23

Is it is it is it using government funds to fund his campaign?

Norm Murdock [: 00:29:26

No doubt about it.

Brett Johnson [: 00:29:26

Well, yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:29:27

No doubt about it.

Brett Johnson [: 00:29:27

All the and and and Who's gonna hit send? And and what's the ceiling? $12,000 that they've been trying to pay off for the last 10 years. Again, I get it. It's a it's it's

Norm Murdock [: 00:29:36

a it's a loan.

Brett Johnson [: 00:29:36

I I and it's 12,000 is 12,000. But $12,000

Steve Palmer [: 00:29:40

Right. To to get your

Brett Johnson [: 00:29:42

12,000 at this like, we'll just shove that through with a pen, you know.

Steve Palmer [: 00:29:45

And I would ask mister Biden this. If student lending is such the scourge of the earth, of the country Right. Why is the government still in that business?

Norm Murdock [: 00:29:56

Right. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:29:57

Yeah. Why are we still lending money?

Brett Johnson [: 00:29:58

It's your business. It's your business that's the evil. Doing it. Right?

Norm Murdock [: 00:30:02

We're not giving 18 year old plumbers and roofers and, and, plaster, you know, guys. We're not giving them vans and toolboxes, but we're giving people that wanna go to college free stuff.

Steve Palmer [: 00:30:17

Right. Well and it's not free as these kids wake up 5 years later. Well,

Norm Murdock [: 00:30:22

it it is free for 1,200,000,000. And

Steve Palmer [: 00:30:26

then they owe all this money, and they're thinking, well, look, maybe my social science, major with my Chinese art history minor isn't gonna earn me very much money to pay back this money.

Brett Johnson [: 00:30:39

That is on them for not researching. I should not have gone to Harvard for this. Right. Well, those are So to to get that degree.

Steve Palmer [: 00:30:45

Maybe I

Brett Johnson [: 00:30:45

could have gone to a state school, a Columbus State or, you know Or I'm

Steve Palmer [: 00:30:49

Nothing wrong with

Brett Johnson [: 00:30:50

this kind of

Steve Palmer [: 00:30:50

up my laptop and read about art history.

Norm Murdock [: 00:30:53

These are the

Brett Johnson [: 00:30:54

you have to look at what you're gonna make with that degree, and I can't go to these schools. I owe 6 figures.

Norm Murdock [: 00:30:59

The school of

Brett Johnson [: 00:31:00

hard stupid decision

Steve Palmer [: 00:31:01

at the very beginning.

Norm Murdock [: 00:31:02

The school of hard knocks. This is part of becoming an adult. If you make bad decisions, you have to live with them. Look.

Steve Palmer [: 00:31:08

It is look. Love him or hate him. Dave Ramsey always says this. This is a stupid tax. Like, you you've got you made a dumb financial decision. Right. Now you gotta pay the tax.

Norm Murdock [: 00:31:17

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:31:17

And it's not just a tax. It's you're really then paying for your education because you've realized how dumb that was. That's right. And now you don't do it again.

Brett Johnson [: 00:31:24

Well and and, you know, it's The

Steve Palmer [: 00:31:25

first time you sign on to a car loan that that Right. Then the car you drove off a

Norm Murdock [: 00:31:29

lot. In the game. You

Steve Palmer [: 00:31:30

guys if

Norm Murdock [: 00:31:31

you don't have skin in the game and you think the government's gonna bail you out of your bad decisions, you're gonna keep making bad decisions.

Brett Johnson [: 00:31:37

We've set that bar now.

Steve Palmer [: 00:31:39

So if you

Brett Johnson [: 00:31:39

got that that bar that now wait a minute. He's forgiving loans. That's not gonna stop.

Norm Murdock [: 00:31:45

Hey, maybe The train's

Brett Johnson [: 00:31:45

coming out of the

Norm Murdock [: 00:31:46

Maybe I don't have the people. Back now.

Brett Johnson [: 00:31:49

Yeah. Let's just and and and it's not even the students that are making the stupid decisions. It's the parents that are allowing that stupid decision to be made. Think about the future.

Steve Palmer [: 00:31:57

If you're a parent and your kid is saying, no. But I really wanna go out of state and I wanna go out to California and go to Pepperdine, or I wanna go to, I want this fancy liberal arts college that costs 50, $60 a year. No. And and, you know, you say no. No. Because you can go to Columbus State here for free for 2 years. Transfer into Ohio State or some other state school and get full credit and get your sheepskin from the whatever university you finish at.

Brett Johnson [: 00:32:20

Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:32:20

And

Steve Palmer [: 00:32:20

it would cost like nothing. You know, like, I I you wouldn't you wouldn't make this decision on any in any other area. Right? Like, I would never tell my kid, oh, I'm sorry. I know you really want the brand new Audi Yeah. With the the turbo or whatever it would be. Yeah. But guess what? You're gonna get the Malibu or you're gonna get the Civic. That's 10 years old.

Brett Johnson [: 00:32:41

Or if you buy you know, you can't have the new truck, but we're gonna get you 2,006

Steve Palmer [: 00:32:44

truck. Get you a 2,006 truck. I'm going to it right now. Right? Like, nobody would ever think twice. So why do you think that you are entitled as a child to go to the most expensive school for the, quote, experience, which really means getting drunk in the dorms with your buddies.

Norm Murdock [: 00:32:57

Well, you as a not child, actually. You you you as a young adult.

Steve Palmer [: 00:33:01

17, 18 year old young adult. Right? It's absurd. And if you're a parent and that's pulling on your heartstrings, you need to reevaluate where your strings are where your heartstrings

Norm Murdock [: 00:33:08

are. Universities are marketing themselves with the amenities. Mhmm. You know, they're showing the lifestyle.

Steve Palmer [: 00:33:14

Look at the PEC or the physical Look at our the center

Norm Murdock [: 00:33:16

of the dorm rooms. And look at the student

Steve Palmer [: 00:33:18

activity builders. Making money.

Brett Johnson [: 00:33:21

Exactly.

Steve Palmer [: 00:33:21

The universe it's a business that the government has created.

Norm Murdock [: 00:33:24

The university used to have to go collect Yes. Student loans that weren't paid.

Steve Palmer [: 00:33:29

Bill Clinton said everybody ought to have an education. So now it's right. Now we got screwed. Now every college is gonna be loan. We're gonna get you know, it's like awesome. So what did they do? The university started opening up. They they created more avenues to sell their degrees. And and as as I used to say, as soon as that happened, your your degree gets devalued.

Steve Palmer [: 00:33:48

It's like printing money. If you print dollars, the $1 is worth less the more you print. And then they started printing degrees. So your degree norm is worth less than, if your parents would have gotten the same degree.

Norm Murdock [: 00:34:00

Many educators have said that a a college degree now is almost effectively what a high school diploma was like 50 or 60 years ago.

Steve Palmer [: 00:34:09

Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:34:10

That that the student fifties.

Steve Palmer [: 00:34:20

This is this is the analogy I use for, in my practice criminal defense. Things like the sex offender registry or things like, just a DUI conviction now. They have become so ubiquitous

Norm Murdock [: 00:34:31

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:34:31

Because it's become political to enforce certain things Yeah. That it has it has less value. So you know sex offender registry right now. You could be on the sex offender registry if you're a juvenile and you had sex with your girlfriend and, you know, it's like, there's all sorts of people that are on the sex offender registry that I have represented that certainly did something wrong, but they are not danger to society going forward. Now there are people who are dangerous to society going forward. And maybe if you're gonna have such a registry, they should have it. But over in the general assembly on Capitol Hill here or in the state house lawn, they're advocating for more. And the more people you put on it, the less value it has.

Brett Johnson [: 00:35:08

Can we just do a little star system? 1 star, 2 star. You know, if you're a 5 star, you're really dangerous. You're really, really, really star.

Steve Palmer [: 00:35:16

Yeah. Yeah. He just

Brett Johnson [: 00:35:17

He screwed up.

Steve Palmer [: 00:35:18

He was looking at playboy.

Brett Johnson [: 00:35:19

She screwed up. You know? Exactly.

Norm Murdock [: 00:35:21

I mean, now you can you can take courses in college now on, you know, like musicians, you know, that Taylor Swift. I think there's actually a course on Taylor Swift at

Steve Palmer [: 00:35:43

mind that. Some interesting stuff. Yeah. Sure. And that was about as bubblegum y as it it would got it would have gotten. Yeah. And so in Granite And now there's, like, pop culture classes and, you know, it just is

Norm Murdock [: 00:35:53

Star Trek, The Beatles. Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:35:56

And and to give some credit to that, though, I I do have to say one thing. This but this is a middle school class. I I think I brought this up before that my son went through a history of rock and roll class in middle school.

Norm Murdock [: 00:36:05

Mhmm.

Brett Johnson [: 00:36:06

And it actually taught him about the Vietnam War.

Steve Palmer [: 00:36:09

Alright, well let's look

Brett Johnson [: 00:36:10

If it's done right, I think it's a good class.

Steve Palmer [: 00:36:13

That's a great point. So you can take the I'd

Norm Murdock [: 00:36:15

be in favor of teaching about the Vietnam War, frankly.

Brett Johnson [: 00:36:18

Well, look. Right. But but but he got it done. Here's if we just never get

Steve Palmer [: 00:36:21

that. You're not No. I agree. I totally agree. You're not gonna take

Brett Johnson [: 00:36:24

We don't.

Steve Palmer [: 00:36:25

Kids aren't gonna take a class called Vietnam,

Norm Murdock [: 00:36:28

and they're

Steve Palmer [: 00:36:29

gonna learn nothing about the Vietnam War because they're gonna see that and say, no. Now if you take, you know, seventies, sixties, seventies rock history as a backbone Yeah. And then use that as a jumping off point for Vietnam War. At least maybe there's some value there.

Brett Johnson [: 00:36:42

Yeah. It it it it became it became valuable, and and it was eye opening. It's like, okay. This is this is cool because they never they stop at the end of World War 2. They never even take the next 3 weeks and go into Korea.

Steve Palmer [: 00:36:53

So they're gonna never do.

Norm Murdock [: 00:36:54

So that kind of course, music about the Vietnam War is gonna have Barry Maguire in start instead of sergeant Barry Sadler. So you're gonna get one side of the Vietnam War. You're gonna get

Steve Palmer [: 00:37:05

Well, possibly. Angry. Angry. You didn't get that in any way. You

Brett Johnson [: 00:37:09

don't know that.

Steve Palmer [: 00:37:09

You're gonna get that.

Brett Johnson [: 00:37:10

You don't know that.

Steve Palmer [: 00:37:11

The guy who taught Vietnam when I went

Norm Murdock [: 00:37:12

to college. Brett. Name all the pro Vietnam, songs from the sixties 70. There aren't any. I

Steve Palmer [: 00:37:20

understand that.

Norm Murdock [: 00:37:20

Except the ballad. Accept the ballad.

Steve Palmer [: 00:37:23

I agree. That's it.

Norm Murdock [: 00:37:24

That's the only one.

Steve Palmer [: 00:37:25

No. I understand that.

Brett Johnson [: 00:37:26

I understand, but that doesn't mean that the the

Steve Palmer [: 00:37:29

So what

Norm Murdock [: 00:37:30

do you think they were teaching?

Brett Johnson [: 00:37:31

Come on. Detail.

Norm Murdock [: 00:37:33

Hey. I went to college. Okay. I know what the professor

Brett Johnson [: 00:37:35

said. I lived that class through my son, and he learned about the Vietnam War

Steve Palmer [: 00:37:39

through it. So maybe I

Brett Johnson [: 00:37:42

think we're both we're both right. We're both right on this.

Steve Palmer [: 00:37:45

Birds, creams, clear water.

Norm Murdock [: 00:37:46

Come on, man. Look. Look.

Steve Palmer [: 00:37:48

If if if it opens up some doors where there's at least some substance about it, it's got some value. And and look, you can see

Norm Murdock [: 00:37:54

of course. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:37:55

Your argument Your argument is biased education

Norm Murdock [: 00:37:58

about Vietnam

Steve Palmer [: 00:37:59

War. Will that exist anywhere?

Norm Murdock [: 00:38:00

Exactly. Right. So look. Oh, for sure.

Steve Palmer [: 00:38:02

You might as well if you're gonna get it, you might as well get it learning together.

Norm Murdock [: 00:38:05

Get no more greater bias than talking to pop culture musicians. I mean, they're the worst.

Steve Palmer [: 00:38:10

Well, they're experts, aren't they? Yeah. Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:38:13

They're the worst. Sure. Jane Crosby? I mean Crosby, Stills, and Nash is why we don't have a nuclear in the industry in this country.

Steve Palmer [: 00:38:20

You have to talk to actors and actresses, Norm. Because, you know, Jane Fonda, she knew a lot about it.

Norm Murdock [: 00:38:24

We have not licensed a new nuclear reactor

Steve Palmer [: 00:38:27

Just like Sean Penn.

Norm Murdock [: 00:38:28

45 years. Right? And and right now, what's our energy secretary say? Okay. We can't do coal. Right? We can't do gas. We can't do CNG. Can't do propane. Can't burn wood, can't build a new hydro electrical dam, right? Solar would take up too, you know, many square yards, and it's not gonna pay back. So we and they financed Solyndra, and it went under.

Norm Murdock [: 00:38:53

Big scandal. So what the hell can we do for energy?

Steve Palmer [: 00:38:56

Well We can buy it from Russia.

Norm Murdock [: 00:38:58

Jimmy Carter was right. Jimmy Carter with the breeder reactor and nuclear power was right. If we had nuclear power, right, we would have the cleanest air. Right? And and we wouldn't have any of these waste disposal problems because a breeder reactor reuses the waste.

Steve Palmer [: 00:39:14

Yeah. We've got that's like, that technology has advanced. I mean, we're not talking about the China Syndrome anymore. Right? We're not talking about No. No. No.

Norm Murdock [: 00:39:20

From the mildew. And we are literally, like, we are literally committing, national suicide on our energy policy. It's just ridiculous.

Steve Palmer [: 00:39:30

We could have as much

Norm Murdock [: 00:39:32

And it's because of pop culture.

Steve Palmer [: 00:39:33

That was my point. Yeah. Be free.

Brett Johnson [: 00:39:35

You called what was it called? Breeder what?

Norm Murdock [: 00:39:37

Breeder reactor. Breeder reactor. Jimmy Jimmy Carter, who, by the way, was a nuclear engineer.

Steve Palmer [: 00:39:42

Was he really? I didn't know it.

Norm Murdock [: 00:39:43

He was trained by admiral Rickover as part of the nuclear navy. Jimmy Carter was a nuclear engineer for, you know, like submarines, aircraft carriers. Yeah. He was probably the smartest president or one of the, you know, in terms of technical things. You know, the fact that he, you know, messed up some other stuff. But actually, he he was quite a great man. He is a great man. And he did a lot of An incredible guy.

Norm Murdock [: 00:40:08

An incredible guy. And and somebody just like Herbert Hoover who was an engineer, sometimes guys who have a messy administration, 1 or 2 things that they're in favor of may just be brilliant.

Steve Palmer [: 00:40:20

Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:40:20

And that was one of them. But because of the China Syndrome movie and all that kind of stuff and pop culture, Bruce Springsteen, you know, Graham Nash.

Steve Palmer [: 00:40:30

No nukes. No nukes.

Norm Murdock [: 00:40:32

Right? You know, like okay. Fine. Now now now we got now we have Now

Steve Palmer [: 00:40:37

we have no power.

Norm Murdock [: 00:40:38

Now we have no power. Gavin Newsom in so many different levels. Gavin Newsom wants everybody said EVs are not happening.

Brett Johnson [: 00:40:52

Well and and to that

Steve Palmer [: 00:40:53

point too, there's some I don't have the article in front of me. I I thought it was something I earmarked a

Brett Johnson [: 00:40:58

while back that, you know, there's some discussion in regards to, reevaluating how much we pay for electric in Ohio. Oh my god. And a lot and and and a piece of that is stating because of the EV suckage, There it's more power needed and they need to they they need more money from us to invest in their development of electricity because

Steve Palmer [: 00:41:20

bad policy.

Brett Johnson [: 00:41:21

Because of more electrical vehicles on the road.

Steve Palmer [: 00:41:25

So insane.

Brett Johnson [: 00:41:25

And and, of course, the one side's saying all

Steve Palmer [: 00:41:27

that bullshit.

Brett Johnson [: 00:41:28

That's bullshit. It's like, dudes, where do you think this electric's coming from?

Steve Palmer [: 00:41:31

Look. You can charge your car

Norm Murdock [: 00:41:32

at night.

Steve Palmer [: 00:41:33

Plug it in. It's clean.

Brett Johnson [: 00:41:34

Yeah. Right. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:41:36

Right. Because you don't see it burn.

Norm Murdock [: 00:41:37

So when so let me just Right. When I was in college, I I I wrote concert reviews. Okay? So Graham Nash came to Cincinnati and went to University.

Steve Palmer [: 00:41:45

Norm's after the musicians today.

Norm Murdock [: 00:41:48

Yeah. Well, no. So I interviewed Graham. Okay? He's a big friend of mine. So interviewed him about his no nukes stance because, you know, he's having a concert and during

Steve Palmer [: 00:41:58

Jackson Brown, Bruce Springsteen, Instagram. That that was a big it was

Norm Murdock [: 00:42:01

a Joni Mitchell. Yeah. So during during the breaks between songs, he's he's telling the audience why the Zimmer Nuclear Power Plant, which was then under construction in Cincinnati along the Ohio River, that it should not be completed. It should be abandoned. And lo and behold, it was abandoned and turned into a coal gasification plant.

Steve Palmer [: 00:42:22

I wish they've since closed.

Norm Murdock [: 00:42:24

And since closed. But guess what? All of the ratepayers and a ratepayer is you, mister and missus consumer. They all had to pay for it anyway. Right. Even though it was never used as a nuclear power plant, they had to pay for that. And basically, they had to pay twice. First, they built it as a nuclear power plant, and then they built it as a coal gasification plant. Retrofit it.

Norm Murdock [: 00:42:49

Yeah. I mean, what a nightmare. Wow. What an absolute nightmare. And that's that's Ohio's energy policy.

Steve Palmer [: 00:42:55

Yeah. It's just That plant down there has been such a debacle.

Norm Murdock [: 00:42:58

It's such a debacle. And I guess the one in in Toledo, there's something with the containment, you know, the nuclear plant up there, like the containment shell, the concrete The

Steve Palmer [: 00:43:08

plug that you see when you're on Lake Erie? Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:43:09

It was starting to leak and, you know, come on guys. Get your shit together.

Brett Johnson [: 00:43:13

Yeah. Really.

Steve Palmer [: 00:43:14

You know? It's it's alright.

Norm Murdock [: 00:43:17

Mhmm. I know it hurts. Yeah. It hurts. And I don't know about you guys, but my what? So I'm an all electric house. Man, it just went it went nuts.

Steve Palmer [: 00:43:27

No. It's I am too. My I I have a condo that has no, no natural gas.

Norm Murdock [: 00:43:32

Oh, yeah. Like, double my

Steve Palmer [: 00:43:34

That's why I'm building a house. I'm gonna go hide in the country, and I'm gonna

Brett Johnson [: 00:43:37

Burn all the wood you want. I'm not

Steve Palmer [: 00:43:38

gonna tell anybody how to get my power.

Norm Murdock [: 00:43:43

Chipmunks on a, you know Yep. On a belt.

Steve Palmer [: 00:43:46

I'm gonna build a, I'm gonna build a a mill.

Brett Johnson [: 00:43:50

You can go Walton's on us? Create my

Steve Palmer [: 00:43:52

own You can go Walton's on us. And create my own turbine. So,

Norm Murdock [: 00:43:56

before the show, you you had a a great topic, which caught our or, you know, our attention too about, this AI thing at Google.

Steve Palmer [: 00:44:06

Mhmm.

Norm Murdock [: 00:44:07

Yeah. Go ahead, Steve. I mean, preview that a little bit or I can.

Steve Palmer [: 00:44:11

Yeah. Yeah. You can like, you know, me, Jeff, and I'll comment.

Norm Murdock [: 00:44:13

Google basically halted, AI generation of, images of people because

Steve Palmer [: 00:44:23

So absurd.

Norm Murdock [: 00:44:24

Because the woke programmers so this is this is the age old thing computer people have said since the beginning of time, garbage in, garbage out. The the programmers for AI, can't they can't help themselves. So because because because they are so desperate to to demonstrate their virtuosity, they they they programmed in diverse images as like the default that comes up when you asked AI to generate a face. So you would say, show me show me an Elizabethan actor, at at Shakespeare's theater. Right? Show me what an actor would look like doing, you know, Romeo and Juliet. And it would show an African American or a or a South American Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:45:21

We're not talking about Othello. We're talking about

Norm Murdock [: 00:45:23

No. No. We're talking about people who are Caucasian, you know, by virtue.

Steve Palmer [: 00:45:29

Historical figures. One of them said, show us, what the George Washington. The king of France.

Norm Murdock [: 00:45:34

Exactly.

Steve Palmer [: 00:45:35

And it was a black dude.

Norm Murdock [: 00:45:36

It it's it's so

Steve Palmer [: 00:45:37

Look. And I don't care if a black dude were a king of France. It doesn't make any difference to me, except it never happened.

Brett Johnson [: 00:45:43

Historically incorrect.

Steve Palmer [: 00:45:44

It never happened. Right. Right? And it's like and why would it? Because dude. We're in France.

Norm Murdock [: 00:45:50

We're out of control. So, like, if Norm ran Google's AI department. Okay? This is how I would program things. I would simply say, for any given period of time and location, if we have statistical factual information about the frequency of various cultures and races, then like like for America right now, blacks are 13% of the population. So if you just put in a very vague thing, show me an American citizen, 13% of the time, I would have my AI program show a black person because that would be statistically accurate. Mhmm. Okay? Like, one out of 8 times up comes in a Or

Steve Palmer [: 00:46:36

you could just show you could just show a a a representative sample.

Norm Murdock [: 00:46:40

Well, then you would be showing multiple. But if you ask me to show me an example. Right. Yeah. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:46:45

So I

Norm Murdock [: 00:46:45

mean, I would just do it that way. Like, that would be accurate.

Steve Palmer [: 00:46:48

The problem with their AI was that it would never show a white guy.

Norm Murdock [: 00:46:51

Exactly

Steve Palmer [: 00:46:51

right. It's just no matter what you asked, it wouldn't show white guy.

Norm Murdock [: 00:46:54

Nor would it show white people, whatever a white person is. So I always people always, you know

Steve Palmer [: 00:46:59

Now we know. Think it's funny. Norms are

Norm Murdock [: 00:47:01

Obama is just as much white as black. So I count him as a white guy. Obama's a white guy to me as much as a black guy. So what is a white person? We we could go down that rift. Exactly.

Steve Palmer [: 00:47:14

This is the problem with depth when you start this is a rocking with definition. Right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:47:17

I don't know what a white person is. I really don't know what a black person is. I I and I don't care. Frankly, I don't care.

Steve Palmer [: 00:47:23

Well, they

Norm Murdock [: 00:47:24

They're all people, and I

Steve Palmer [: 00:47:25

love them all. When asked to show a white guy Yeah. It it threw up an objection. Like, you know, these are these this is biased or racist. We we we're we're we're not gonna produce now ask to show a black guy, it'll do that.

Norm Murdock [: 00:47:37

So we're this is black history black history month. If you said show me a list of black achievements by Americans, you know, in in the last 100 years, there'd be a huge long list. If you ask that same question about Caucasians, it will not answer it will not answer the question.

Steve Palmer [: 00:47:53

And now what about what if it said, show me a slave owner? I do I wonder if it would show a white guy.

Norm Murdock [: 00:48:00

Well, there were black slave owners.

Steve Palmer [: 00:48:01

I well,

Norm Murdock [: 00:48:01

I know.

Steve Palmer [: 00:48:02

But I wonder if it would show a white guy if you ask that.

Norm Murdock [: 00:48:04

Good question. I don't know. But Google has shit canned that program because because it's it's absurd. What they did was absurd, and it's based on bias.

Steve Palmer [: 00:48:13

Where this is going. Look at the danger of this. It is very Because you are putting in you are putting our history in the hands of people who want to rewrite it. And Or or in in some

Norm Murdock [: 00:48:25

cases, yes. Or people who are just plain dumb. Or don't don't know that. There are very dumb people.

Steve Palmer [: 00:48:31

But look, I I I don't I I think here, people know the actual history because, look, it it doesn't take anybody with any intellect to know there was probably not a black king of France. Probably not. Right? Yeah. And during during the kingdom of France. Right.

Brett Johnson [: 00:48:48

But, if you're basing your history, unbeknownst to you, it's like, oh, I'm gonna search it up. And you see it. You believe it. Now you start to believe it. Depends depends on your age.

Steve Palmer [: 00:48:57

You're rewriting history. Right. We're rewriting history to fit the current narrative. Which How much more I mean, how much more Orwellian does that get?

Norm Murdock [: 00:49:04

We're we're even we're even taking fictional things and making and and transmogrifying that into history. For example, at the at the Academy Awards, a young lady got to the microphone when that crazy movie Black Panther won some kind of Oscar, whatever it was. And she got up there, and she said, finally, and she's got her fist in the air. Finally, they made a movie about our people. And I'm like, honey, you you know Wakanda never existed. Right? Like like like that wasn't about It was

Steve Palmer [: 00:49:42

total fiction.

Norm Murdock [: 00:49:43

It wasn't about Africans. It wasn't about it was just it's about another planet, you know, like it was it's science fiction. They didn't make a movie about your people. That's as much of that would be like saying, you know, I don't

Steve Palmer [: 00:49:57

And there's plenty of movie.

Norm Murdock [: 00:49:58

It's not only Flash Gordon's about

Steve Palmer [: 00:50:00

white people. Only wrong. It's wrong.

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:01

Oh my god.

Steve Palmer [: 00:50:02

Right. It's it's not only Right. It's not only wrong. There's plenty of movies.

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:05

That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:50:06

About black history. Plenty.

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:07

Yeah. The Color Purple, Roots, any number of of wonderful

Steve Palmer [: 00:50:12

And they're they're great. They're great.

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:14

Yeah. Like, you know, what was the one about Jesse Owens that just came out? I love that movie.

Steve Palmer [: 00:50:20

Great movie. Right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:21

Running Jackie,

Steve Palmer [: 00:50:22

50 or 42?

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:23

Oh, 42. Great. Great movie. Great flick. Great flick.

Steve Palmer [: 00:50:26

Great movie.

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:26

I mean, just like, what are we doing here?

Steve Palmer [: 00:50:28

Yeah. It it's it's just it's About your people. It's just people

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:32

are buy it's sort

Steve Palmer [: 00:50:32

of what your point is, Brett. People people are buying the narrative because that's all they search Google, and you can you can no longer be confident in what you're getting from a Google search. Right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:44

So, Steve Steve, can I throw you a legal thing? Because that you being an attorney, it your views are, so precious on this show. A very disturbing denial of cert, in my opinion disturbing, and certainly judge Alito and judge Thomas thought it was disturbing. If the Supreme Court could not get a third justice to grant cert on a Virginia high school case, which contained the exact same fact pattern as the Harvard University of North Carolina case overturning racial discrimination for admissions. And so a group of Asian parents got together and sued the high school because the high school, created a preadmission diversity socioeconomic criteria that would hopefully increase the number of, black and brown skinned kids into the high school. Certainly a worthy goal, but they were leapfrogging over other people who had meritorious claims like testing scores and

Steve Palmer [: 00:51:58

Sure.

Norm Murdock [: 00:51:58

And grade averages. And so they wanted they wanted the the 4th, the 4th circuit, upheld the school district's admissions policy, which flew in the face of justice Roberts' opinion in the Harvard University of North Carolina case that said you couldn't even do essays as a way around, to try to do racial discrimination and and, like, contain within the essay little hints that this person is a certain color and so you're gonna pick them. Roberts said you can't even do that. But they turned down cert on this case. And Alito said, now what we're gonna have is complete chaos. Like, now what we have is a whole mess because the Supreme Court is not even taking up like, they're not even gonna reinforce their own landmark decision. And and and Alito just he's warning that we're in for probably until another case is ripe and represents. We're in for another 15, 20 years of this crazy affirmative action Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:53:02

Chaos.

Steve Palmer [: 00:53:03

So, sir, it's it's an interesting so when we say granted, sir, what we're talking about is the US Supreme Court granting certiorari, I think, is the right way to say it. So what they really, what what you need to understand is the US Supreme Court is a discretionary court. The court you can't just say, I'm taking my case all the way to the Supreme Court and expect the US Supreme Court to actually, hear it. So it is a discretionary review, meaning they have to decide. The court has to decide if it wants to butt in and take the case and offer its opinion on it. There are some exceptions to that that it it will take certain cases it has to. But, in this situation, this is discretionary view. So people file what's called a petition for certiorari.

Steve Palmer [: 00:53:44

They they ask the court. They say, here, court, this is such a significant issue that we need you to weigh in on it. It has broad reaching impact beyond just the scope of this case. We wanna make some law. You know, you can think of the landmark cases on first amendment, on freedom of religion, which is also first amendment, but abortion and, you know, all these cases. These are these are cases that that extend beyond the facts and the lives that are at stake in the litigation. So, you know, please don't be offended, but the Supreme Court doesn't care about you. You know? They have major reverberations

Brett Johnson [: 00:54:21

across the country.

Steve Palmer [: 00:54:22

Now there's some exceptions. So if there's a death penalty case or there's somebody who's gonna die and it's got some you know, that that might be a little bit of an exception. But, you know, generally, they're looking for broad reaching, issues to weigh in on. And, incidentally, most state courts have a supreme court or the highest court. They don't always call it a Supreme Court. In fact, New York has it all reversed. But, most states have something similar. Ohio has something called a memorandum in support of jurisdiction, meaning I'm asking the Ohio Supreme Court to accept jurisdiction over the case.

Steve Palmer [: 00:54:50

Then if they do, we really get down to brass tacks, and then we have to file our briefs. We have to file our arguments. And in cases like Roe v Wade, the Supreme Court even came back and said file more stuff. We need to hear more, and they can they can allow more argument. They can do all sorts of stuff once they take the case. So now you would ask what's the case, you know, what's a worthy case and what's not. It takes 4 votes to get, for the court to vote or to for the court to grant cert. So you would wonder here why that didn't happen, and I don't know why it didn't happen.

Steve Palmer [: 00:55:20

I don't have the crystal ball, and I haven't studied this. But there are reasons why it might not have happened. Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:55:25

They they they did deny it without comment.

Steve Palmer [: 00:55:28

They they typically do. They typically do. So you file your petition for cert

Norm Murdock [: 00:55:31

Except for Alito.

Steve Palmer [: 00:55:32

And then you get yeah. Some sometimes they'll give you some hints, but, they typically do. So, you know, sometimes you'll get one judge saying I would have granted cert, and that's it. Yeah. But they didn't get 4, and there's certainly 4 conservative justices, more actually. Three Trumpers

Norm Murdock [: 00:55:48

right there, you know.

Steve Palmer [: 00:55:48

That could have, weighed in on. So now you would wonder why. It's not just that it might, that we have to wait 15 years. It might be they're watching another case. It might be that there's something else percolating up that they know is gonna either solve this issue issue directly or this issue, plus it's it's got a better fact pattern to do what they want. That stuff goes on.

Norm Murdock [: 00:56:08

Let me throw let me throw this, Steve. So Alito, indicated that, in his opinion, the only 2 the only fact pattern or the only fact that's really different between this and the Landmark case, the Virginia case, being high school students and the landmark case being

Steve Palmer [: 00:56:26

In college. Yeah. So look. So but that that's significant or there might be a different distinction like between a private college private

Norm Murdock [: 00:56:34

high school. This is a public school.

Steve Palmer [: 00:56:35

So yeah. So you could say there there's a there's an argument called judicial restraint, where if the court doesn't need to weigh in, if it's just impacting only the litigants at hand, then, you know, there's an argument the court should not allocate its time to solve that problem. And, you know, it sucks when you're the litigate at hand and the court's just not following the law. And, you know, you made a point, Norm, I don't know if you know you're making it. But what you what you're saying is this this this is problematic because if we are going to permit circuit courts to just not follow the law I I mean, just to just to say, you know what? I don't care what the law is. We're not gonna follow it. We're gonna uphold this, or we're not gonna uphold this, whatever the situation would be, and is in direct contradiction to Supreme Court precedent. You're sort of you're left with a right without a remedy, as we would say.

Steve Palmer [: 00:57:18

You know? And it's a very

Norm Murdock [: 00:57:20

recent precedent.

Steve Palmer [: 00:57:20

And it's a recent precedent.

Norm Murdock [: 00:57:21

You know?

Steve Palmer [: 00:57:22

Now so the court may say, look. We're not gonna take this on again. It doesn't matter. It's not a big enough cause, but it is setting a precedent in a sense to say, we don't have to follow this, and, of course, it's not gonna stop us.

Norm Murdock [: 00:57:33

This particular school was ranked number 1 in the country. It's the top high school in the country last year. This year, the 2nd highest in the country.

Steve Palmer [: 00:57:43

Well, there's other stuff going on here.

Norm Murdock [: 00:57:44

Asian parents. Right? Just like Harvard and Yale. They want their kids

Steve Palmer [: 00:57:49

Sure.

Norm Murdock [: 00:57:49

To get into the best. You know god bless them.

Steve Palmer [: 00:57:52

Other stuff going on. So I'm gonna I'm gonna offer some solace here in a second. But generally speaking, the court is gonna take cases that have a broader reaching scope than just the litigants at hand. And it may be, like I said, there may be other cases they're watching that are coming up that they can say they can handle this problem plus more. It might be that there's another distinction, like a different type of university or, a different type of admission requirement that's that gives them a platform to do more with it.

Norm Murdock [: 00:58:19

So can I can I whine a little bit?

Steve Palmer [: 00:58:21

Sure.

Norm Murdock [: 00:58:21

Like, so you remember when when this case was decided, we were doing a show. Mhmm. And at the time, I expressed my frustration that instead of just striking down affirmative action across the board like in hiring and promotion and, you know, high school. They limited that landmark case to colleges and universities. And that really frustrated me. And that's what Alito is saying is that this affirmative action thing is really a poison. And in his dissent, of of turning down cert, he specifically gave the example of, say, a basketball team that is predominantly are all black because of the merit. In other words, those are the

Steve Palmer [: 00:59:05

best could reverse that. I mean, there's a there's a world

Norm Murdock [: 00:59:07

where this all gets rehearsed. Right? Saying, well, what if a white parent goes to the coach and says, hey, dude.

Steve Palmer [: 00:59:12

We're gonna get back to this sort of redefining terms because the the the term discrimination or racism has been redefined. Yes. Because it doesn't mean just discrimination based on color. It means discrimination based on color against those who have traditionally had the power structure against them, or they add some nonsense that makes it, okay to discriminate against white folks, just like the Google AI. And Brett's got his words of the day that's sort of like redefining words. But there's some solace here, Norm, because if you follow there's other news where I was it Princeton? All these schools who after the Black Lives Matter riots and, all the George Floyd stuff started getting rid of the ACTs and the SATs as admission requirements. Now they're coming back. Because what's happened is those are those become the standards

Norm Murdock [: 00:59:54

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:59:55

By which the universities are judged. So if you're not letting people in who are capable, it it lowers the it lowers the tide for everybody. Yeah. And I would say this. I, you know, I used to I used to sort of, I used to make 2 comments sort of ingest, and it it reflects how young and ignorant I was. 1, I could go run that company. I could do that. You know, and and I hear other people say that guy is he doesn't deserve, you know, $2,000,000 a year for his job.

Steve Palmer [: 01:00:21

And then when you see what that job really is, I realize, no. I couldn't. I couldn't do that job. Yeah. I not knowing that. I don't want that job.

Norm Murdock [: 01:00:26

Yeah. Like, recently, it came out that the Walmart managers in the big cities make as much as 400,000 a year. Yeah. Well, my god. Who would wanna be a Walmart manager?

Steve Palmer [: 01:00:36

Or if you're, you know, or if you're a multinational

Norm Murdock [: 01:00:39

city. Can you imagine?

Brett Johnson [: 01:00:40

I know.

Steve Palmer [: 01:00:40

Or multinational company where you're up all night long. You're like dealing with markets overseas. I mean, I don't want that job. And then the pressure and the stress. I mean, you have to be a certain personality type to to be able to do those jobs. A 100%. The other comment I used to make is, well, I could have gone to Harvard Law School, and I could have done you know what? Uh-uh. Right? Because you're you're weighed against people who have different intellectual capacities, experiences, and educations.

Steve Palmer [: 01:01:07

I didn't I I mean, look, I I think I'm a I I have a very good legal mind, and I've sharpened it as much as I possibly can. I continue to do that. But could I have competed at the same level with the best of the best of the best of the best? I don't know. But it it wouldn't have been prudent for me to even try, because I look, my LSAT, my my pre law admittance, I would not have ever in a 1000000 years gotten into Harvard because it was love.

Norm Murdock [: 01:01:28

So we both went to law school. I did not become a lawyer. But we won't we both have degrees.

Steve Palmer [: 01:01:33

Yep.

Norm Murdock [: 01:01:34

My experience in law school. So, like, I skated through undergraduate. Right? Like, I I could read a book the night before, ace the exam. You know what I mean? Your typical

Steve Palmer [: 01:01:42

I was working 40, 45 hours a week at Kroger.

Norm Murdock [: 01:01:51

We kind of skate through. And I,

Steve Palmer [: 01:01:51

you know, I graduated Magna Cum Law,

Norm Murdock [: 01:01:53

we'd we'd kind of skate through. And I, you know, I graduated magna cum laude. It really didn't I I worked hard, but I didn't have to work that hard.

Steve Palmer [: 01:02:00

Mhmm.

Norm Murdock [: 01:02:00

So I go into law school, man, thinking I'm a big dog.

Steve Palmer [: 01:02:04

Yeah. Dude. The great equalizer.

Norm Murdock [: 01:02:06

Dude, in law school, they're all big dogs. They're

Steve Palmer [: 01:02:10

all brilliant. It's like this.

Norm Murdock [: 01:02:12

If you find out you're in a small barrel of, like, barracudas. Little chihuahua.

Steve Palmer [: 01:02:16

Oh, they will chew you up. It doesn't mean that they're better lawyers. It doesn't mean that they're better lawyers.

Norm Murdock [: 01:02:21

That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 01:02:21

Now but it they it may mean that they're

Norm Murdock [: 01:02:23

all brilliant. They're all brilliant.

Steve Palmer [: 01:02:26

They're all willing to stay up all night and work their tails up all night long, and they're all willing to do all the stuff. And and I wouldn't have wanted that looking back.

Brett Johnson [: 01:02:33

Oh, yeah. But they found their lane.

Norm Murdock [: 01:02:35

They found That's where they love it,

Brett Johnson [: 01:02:37

so let them play there.

Steve Palmer [: 01:02:38

I'm a good trial lawyer. I'm great at what I do, I think, and I and I like what I do. And, you know, I've got the educational background to do it, but it doesn't mean that I that everybody should go to Harvard. No. You know, it just doesn't. No. And it would have been foolish to think otherwise. Oh, yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:02:52

So, you know I would

Norm Murdock [: 01:02:53

I would not have survived. I barely survived the University of Cincinnati's Law School. Yeah. Let me tell you, man. Those guys crushed me. I didn't I didn't know what deal. I did not know what hard

Steve Palmer [: 01:03:03

I played high school football. I always said it this way. It's like when I played high school football, I was a pretty good offensive lineman. Everybody I I I can't remember one scenario where, like, somebody really gave me trouble throughout a game. You know, I could always sort of handle the guy I was supposed to block. And then I went to college and played football. Yeah. And everybody was like me.

Norm Murdock [: 01:03:20

Yeah. They're badass.

Steve Palmer [: 01:03:21

Except even better. Yeah. Right. You know, and it's like, wait a second. So, you know, anybody who's played offensive line or played football, like, lined up I mean, not necessarily running back, but lined up against somebody. You always every now and then, you run into a guy who just knows how to hit. Yeah. Like, he knows what he's doing and how to hit.

Steve Palmer [: 01:03:36

And it's like, alright. That sort of sets the tone. I gotta I gotta up my I gotta up my act for this game. In college, everybody was that way, and then it sort of increased it. And then I can't imagine what would have been like going to a d one college or even pro, you know? So it's like we all can't. We're not all equal is the point.

Norm Murdock [: 01:03:52

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:03:52

Right. We're not all equal. And just because you're good in one avenue doesn't mean you're good in the other. And, you know, if you if these schools eliminate, a hierarchical, meritorious structure, then they're gonna get what they deserve. They're gonna they're gonna lose their status in the world, you know. So if these Ivy Leagues aren't requiring SATs or any sort of standardized testing for people to get in, they're gonna let in people who aren't qualified. Right. Alright.

Steve Palmer [: 01:04:18

Fine. Yeah. But then the people who hire from those schools are gonna start to realize

Norm Murdock [: 01:04:22

Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:04:23

This guy is not the person that came from Harvard 10 years ago.

Norm Murdock [: 01:04:26

This is, like, the fast times at Richmond High.

Steve Palmer [: 01:04:28

So you're doing

Norm Murdock [: 01:04:29

pass fail.

Steve Palmer [: 01:04:30

It's like, that's my head. Hey.

Norm Murdock [: 01:04:32

Can I can I I'm so wasted? We're short on time. Can I throw out kind of a fun this is a cultural thing?

Steve Palmer [: 01:04:37

We got Brett's word of the day.

Norm Murdock [: 01:04:39

Yeah. Brett's word of the day to close us out. So, you you guys will love this. I mean, this comes under the, yeah, no shit category. So a group of Stanford, University Medical Center Research researchers just came out with a paper. And guess what they found? That men and women have different physical brains, and their brains work differently. No shit. No shit.

Norm Murdock [: 01:05:06

Did like like like, is that Imagine them. Imagine like, the As we 3

Brett Johnson [: 01:05:12

have 3 different brains, and they work differently.

Norm Murdock [: 01:05:15

I mean Yeah. The only people that this will be news to. Right? Yeah. Right? Are the are the people who are trying to brainwash us, no pun intended, into the idea that we're all identical. Look. And we're not.

Steve Palmer [: 01:05:27

Thank and I I truly mean this. Not as a, taking the Lord's name of him, but thank God for that.

Norm Murdock [: 01:05:32

Thank God for that. Oh, yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:05:33

Because Thank God for that. God created both. That's right. Because of the complementary, interaction between both. Right. If every woman were like a man and every man were like a woman Oh, God. We'd be a ridiculous society, which it's almost like what we're trying to achieve.

Norm Murdock [: 01:05:48

It's it's it's see, so the transy kind of idea that that we're genderless.

Steve Palmer [: 01:05:53

And what I've seen is, like, it it

Norm Murdock [: 01:05:55

We're not hermaphrodites. And

Steve Palmer [: 01:05:56

it's With our

Norm Murdock [: 01:05:57

men and our women, and they're different.

Steve Palmer [: 01:05:58

And what I've seen on both going both ways. When men try to be try to act like women, they they sort of take, like, the caricature of those traits.

Norm Murdock [: 01:06:06

It's not

Steve Palmer [: 01:06:06

even it's not even genuine. Like That's his point. The Bud the Bud Light guy. Right.

Brett Johnson [: 01:06:10

Right. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:06:11

Because it

Brett Johnson [: 01:06:11

it's not even defining a new role at all.

Norm Murdock [: 01:06:15

You know, it's like feelings. You're somebody else's You're

Steve Palmer [: 01:06:18

going

Norm Murdock [: 01:06:18

in this direction with identity.

Steve Palmer [: 01:06:19

And and it's and you're like, if I'm trying to emulate a woman, guys tend to choose, like, ridiculous qualities of women. Right? Frolicking around and doing stupid acting effeminate and doing And you know That's not the woman that I'm attracted to.

Brett Johnson [: 01:06:30

And and you're describing the new wave of what's gonna happen probably.

Steve Palmer [: 01:06:33

That's right.

Norm Murdock [: 01:06:33

And then But there

Brett Johnson [: 01:06:34

will be a whole different

Steve Palmer [: 01:06:36

move of the The opposite is also true, though. Women who wanna act like guys, they don't emulate the qualities that I believe make a good man, which is, like, come home to your wife. You know, do but meet your obligations and responsibilities. Don't go sleep around. Don't be a philander. The same thing as

Brett Johnson [: 01:06:54

a person. Right. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 01:06:55

It's like women say, well, guys do that. I should be able to do that. It's like, no. I don't do that. Right. I don't. Yeah. So, like, the like the the feminists who wanna act like men, they're taking the worst qualities and acting like that.

Norm Murdock [: 01:07:04

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:07:04

And it's like, alright. What are we really what are we doing?

Norm Murdock [: 01:07:07

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and, you know, and and it's dangerous too. You know, there was that, that game that basketball game that got called off early because a boy

Steve Palmer [: 01:07:18

Oh, yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 01:07:18

Thinks he's a girl. This just happened this week. Injured 3 girls in a row. And and and that and the team forfeited that the team with the injured girls. They just said, hey. Listen. He's a dude. Like, he's a dude.

Norm Murdock [: 01:07:32

The fact that

Steve Palmer [: 01:07:33

We're getting injured.

Norm Murdock [: 01:07:34

He's just asserting. He even looks like a dude, short hair, the whole thing. He's just asserting, I'm a chick. He just says, I'm a chick.

Steve Palmer [: 01:07:42

I'm gonna go beat up the girls on the basketball court.

Norm Murdock [: 01:07:44

And she

Steve Palmer [: 01:07:45

I mean, look. I'm I feel bad for the guy if he thinks he's a chick. I mean, it's a horrible thing to to experience.

Norm Murdock [: 01:07:49

I get it.

Steve Palmer [: 01:07:50

My god. But it doesn't mean that he should be allowed to play basketball against other girls, other teenage girls. That's insane.

Norm Murdock [: 01:07:55

Or Leah Thomas once

Steve Palmer [: 01:07:56

don't go. Choice. The 2 girls don't have a choice. Right? So swimmer. If there is a league where people had a choice, I don't care if it's a look. We've all been involved in coed intramural sports.

Norm Murdock [: 01:08:04

Oh, yeah. Right. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 01:08:05

In college, I played a couple coedinter. It changes how I behave on the plane.

Norm Murdock [: 01:08:09

For sure. If you're if you're a good person, it should.

Steve Palmer [: 01:08:12

I'm not gonna just level a No. A softball as fast as I can or hit it as hard as I can directly at a at a girl.

Norm Murdock [: 01:08:18

So so our law firm, when I was a clerking, not a lawyer, again, not a lawyer, but my dad's law firm had a case. Now this is, you know, this is a long time ago. And it's coed softball. Right? And this guy doing a Pete Rose head first slide right into a woman. Right? And just blows her up. She's got injuries. And his defense is, hey. We all agree.

Norm Murdock [: 01:08:41

This this coed. Right? We're playing. And it's like, dude.

Steve Palmer [: 01:08:46

Well, the the the you can see it both ways.

Norm Murdock [: 01:08:48

You can see the conflict. He's thinking he's thinking I'm playing against them I'm winning. Just like I would play against a man. And the other guys are like It's it's coed. It's coed. Like, tone it down.

Steve Palmer [: 01:09:00

It does. It like, it it's unspoken almost that when you're playing in a coed league, I'm not going all out to kick the living crap out of you. Right. I'm not gonna do it. Right. And because we all wanna go have a beer right now. Nobody wants to hear anymore is that I could. That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 01:09:16

I could. That's right. Right. Now I am not saying I could beat the best women's golfer. Yeah. But sort of the worst male golf pro would be or this is, like, this has been proven in tennis. Right? The worst male tennis pro

Norm Murdock [: 01:09:27

Just about to get to that.

Steve Palmer [: 01:09:28

Beat the the best female tennis pro.

Norm Murdock [: 01:09:29

You're too young to remember the Bobby Riggs versus Billie Jean King tournament.

Steve Palmer [: 01:09:33

I know I know the story.

Norm Murdock [: 01:09:34

Oh, yeah. Right? Yeah. So 55 year old guy who was in 1939, the best tennis player in the world. Like, he won Wimbledon, everything. Bobby Riggs. Now he's 55 in 1973. 30,000 people in the Houston Astrodome to see him play Billie Jean King, who at the time was 29, she beat him in 3 sets, like 6 to 36 to 36 to 3. Right? And people took from that lesson that somehow men and women are equal.

Steve Palmer [: 01:10:03

Right.

Norm Murdock [: 01:10:04

And it's like Jimmy Connors said the next day, I'll play Billie Jean.

Steve Palmer [: 01:10:09

Oh, of course. Right?

Norm Murdock [: 01:10:10

Right? Like, if you wanna see a guy who's 29 play a girl

Steve Palmer [: 01:10:13

who's apples. Then McEnroe got in trouble. Remember, I I forget what the morning show he was interviewed on a morning show. Yeah. Who do you think the greatest tennis players? They need men. And and they're like, no women? He's like,

Norm Murdock [: 01:10:24

no. What am I supposed to say here?

Steve Palmer [: 01:10:26

No. I mean, if you want the greatest woman's tennis player, I'll tell you that. Yes. But it's like, don't pretend. Like, the best women's tennis player of all time is gonna beat the best men's tennis player of all time. It's not gonna happen. No. And it's okay that it doesn't.

Norm Murdock [: 01:10:38

It's totally okay.

Steve Palmer [: 01:10:39

Why we have different rules. Right.

Norm Murdock [: 01:10:41

And I would and I would go to a women's golf tournament and enjoy the hell out

Steve Palmer [: 01:10:45

of all the hassle.

Norm Murdock [: 01:10:45

Because of great competition.

Steve Palmer [: 01:10:47

Right.

Brett Johnson [: 01:10:47

Well, look. Columbus now has its first professional women's volleyball team. Columbus Fury. If you're a 9,000 people came to the Oh, awesome.

Norm Murdock [: 01:10:55

Women's volleyball.

Brett Johnson [: 01:10:57

Freaking my name.

Steve Palmer [: 01:10:58

My niece plays a

Norm Murdock [: 01:10:59

Oh my god. So it's not about hating women's sports.

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:02

My niece plays at Alabama, women's volleyball.

Norm Murdock [: 01:11:05

Wow.

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:05

And it's fun to watch. Wow. They they're really, really good. You know, it's like, they they, you know, the passing and and the and the skill it goes into is really good. Sure. You know, I don't mind that. And, you know, people used to argue like, I people sort of scoff at the women's NBA or the women's professional basketball. But, look, I mean, watching a good female basketball team is sort of interesting because they can't do what the guys do.

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:26

You know, they're not ducking. They're not doing things.

Brett Johnson [: 01:11:28

They're playing real basketball.

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:30

They're setting up, like, old school plays. Exactly.

Brett Johnson [: 01:11:32

They're playing basketball.

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:34

If you're interested in that Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 01:11:35

It's it's the showboating crap.

Norm Murdock [: 01:11:37

That's very interesting, Steve. I never thought

Brett Johnson [: 01:11:39

of that.

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:39

That's really cool. Set up plays. They have to because they're not jumping 5 feet in the air to dunk the ball. That's really Behind their backs.

Norm Murdock [: 01:11:45

You never thought of that. I'm not a basketball guy, but that that's really a great insight.

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:49

Yeah. It's it's it's it's actual basketball. Sort of like my argument against, pro football. It's like I I say I used to argue that real football happens on Saturday afternoons on small college campuses. Yeah. You know, because, you know, it's not everybody is perfect. Not everybody's the superstar. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:12:03

It you know, it's sort of fun.

Norm Murdock [: 01:12:04

But And you don't have 4 £350 guys, like, on the front line. Exactly.

Steve Palmer [: 01:12:09

Maybe it's the difference between reading, like, a history book versus, like, watching Rambo. You know? It's like Yeah. Yeah. It's it's got they both have some interest, but they're not the same. Mhmm.

Brett Johnson [: 01:12:18

Playing you're playing for playing for different reasons too.

Norm Murdock [: 01:12:20

Rambo. Yeah. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 01:12:21

Well, Vietnam history. Vietnam history. Vietnam. Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 01:12:24

Boy, there there you go.

Steve Palmer [: 01:12:25

I was trying to I was trying to cut circles and see what I Or

Norm Murdock [: 01:12:27

the the Chuck Norris ones where he would go back at

Steve Palmer [: 01:12:30

Oh, on common valor. Oh, for god. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, alright. Well, it's alright. We gotta we gotta wrap it up. This is Bill.

Steve Palmer [: 01:12:35

Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 01:12:35

Now, the word of the day, we just talked about this when we came in. It's like this whole week just went by. For some reason, both Steve and I said that. So the word you can use now is blur's day. A day not easily distinguished from other days or the phenomenon of days running together. So it's been a blurs day week.

Steve Palmer [: 01:12:52

That is a product of young kids learning how to adult.

Brett Johnson [: 01:12:55

Yes. Right? Blurs day.

Steve Palmer [: 01:12:56

Yeah. Yes. Alright. Well, with that, we're gonna wrap it up. Commonsenseohioshow.com, if you wanna check it out, brought to you by Harper Plus Accounting. Coming at you week in, week out. We've got guests coming in. We got guests coming out.

Steve Palmer [: 01:13:09

We got all sorts of stuff happening. But, you know, for those who have followed us know that we record right here at the roundtable on channel channel 511 at Rstudios. If you think you got the chops to have your own podcast, we can help. All you have to do is go to channel5oneone.com. Now you just click on a calendar day, and our studio producers will meet you down here and help you with your podcast. So you will be and you And it's quite reasonable. It's quite reasonable. Right? The the rates are reasonable.

Steve Palmer [: 01:13:38

We're making a turnkey. You leave with your own podcast. If you need some additional help on what to say, how to say it, and where to put it, and all that stuff, we can offer that too. By and large, that stuff is, like, the easy stuff's included, but, you know, we've got a whole range of services. So if you wanted to record your own podcast and let me tell you something. When I first said everybody's got the same, sort of reaction. When you first sit down at the round table, stick on the headphones, talking to the r e twenties, it makes a difference. It makes it feel real because it is.

Steve Palmer [: 01:14:06

This is professional folks. Anyway, with that, we'll wrap it up. Commonsenseohioshow.com, coming at you right from the middle, at least until now.