Ever wonder if vertical farming is more about mastering plant care than chasing the latest tech trend? I do—and in this episode, you'll find out why that's the reality.

Join me as I sit down with Andrew Volpetti, Business Development Director for North America at Red Horticulture, whose deep background in horticulture, hydroponics, and business development has positioned him at the forefront of controlled environment agriculture innovation. With an impressive career spanning over 15 years—including leadership in lighting solutions and a passion for solving agricultural challenges—Andrew brings rich expertise and refreshing honesty to the booming vertical farming industry.

This episode gets real about what’s driving the next wave in vertical farming: prioritizing plant health and farm success over flashy tech. Together, Harry Duran and Andrew Volpetti unpack why the “hype bubble” around vertical farming technology has popped, and why that’s a good thing for growers, investors, and anyone passionate about sustainable food systems. You’ll get an insider look at how Red Horticulture’s dynamic LED lighting is helping make farming smarter, not just more high-tech.

Beyond tech talk, we explore personal journeys—from backyard gardening roots to global industry leadership—plus crucial topics like sustainability, the impact of legacy practices on soil and water, and the evolving rebate landscape for LED upgrades. Andrew Volpetti also shares candid stories of wins, challenges, and the importance of relationship-building in agri-business.

Ready to discover the real future of vertical farming and how you can be part of a movement that’s grounded in reality—not just hype? Click play and listen to the full episode now!

Thanks to Our Sponsors

CEA Summit East - https://indoor.ag/cea-summit-east-2025/

Indoor AgCon - https://indoor.ag/

Key Takeaways

00:00 Indoor Ag Con Recap & Industry Reality

00:06 Early Connections: Family, Food, and Farming

00:13 Hydrofarm Career Journey & Sales Philosophy

00:22 Transition to RED Horticulture & Dynamic Lighting

00:29 LED Technology Advances & Client Success Stories

00:36 Work Ethic, Motivation, and Future Visions

Tweetable Quotes

"I think a lot of the hype bubble, which did pop, and everyone using that trough of disillusionment graph ad nauseam, I think it was good to see. And I think everyone is appreciating it more."

"Dynamic lighting was something that I was vaguely familiar with. I knew there were a lot of changes in LEDs, and the one thing I knew I didn't want to do is just be a box pusher. I wanted to believe in the product, I wanted to understand the product, and I wanted to find solutions for people growing crops that hadn't been presented to them. That's where I think the value lies."

"I wanted to take Latin. I wound up taking 8 years of Latin. Now, I'm not going to say I was an A student. I wasn't a B student. I was like a C-. But you know what? Dogged determination. I think that pays. And I think it also helped me just realize, look, if you work hard, you put the time in, you learn, you really can achieve, you know, and I think my parents' work ethic, but you know, being told you can't do something is usually the greatest motivator for most people."

Resources Mentioned

Website - https://www.horticulture.red/en/

LinkedIn – linkedin.com/in/andrew-volpetti-mba

Connect With Us

VFP LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/verticalfarmingpodcast

VFP Twitter - https://twitter.com/VerticalFarmPod

VFP Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/direct/inbox/

VFP Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/VerticalFarmPod

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1

So Andrew Volpetti, Business Development Director for North America at Red

2

Horticulture, thank you so much for joining me on the Vertical Farming Podcast. Thank you

3

very much, sir. It's absolutely awesome to be here on the computer,

4

and it was great seeing you less than a week ago at Indoor Ag Con,

5

which was an absolute success, I would say, this year, and

6

once again reinvigorated, I think, every attendee.

7

Yeah, I think what's interesting in seeing some of the

8

follow-ups of people posting on LinkedIn afterwards,

9

the tone was a bit more subdued and maybe

10

somber, but everybody was appreciating it and

11

loving it. So a lot of the hype was gone, a lot of the

12

inflated claims, more of the reality of what's happening

13

in the vertical farming space in terms of the focus on

14

farming and not technology. Yes. And I think that was

15

the big takeaway. I mean, I think they let the cat out of the bag.

16

It's a secret. It's farming, not tech. And I couldn't agree more with that sentiment.

17

Having the privilege of being a gardener, farmer, food

18

producer, crop caretaker. That's what got us here.

19

That's why we all do this. It's for the plants, not necessarily

20

the tech, but we need the tech to grow the plants. It's

21

a heck of a catch-22. I think it was an

22

important prioritization on the farming, as it

23

should be, with the tech supporting what's happening

24

either in the greenhouses or in the vertical farms.

25

And I think a lot of the hype bubble, which

26

did pop, and everyone using that trough of

27

disillusionment graph ad nauseam, I think it was good to

28

see. And I think everyone is appreciating it more. So

29

I think— And I think it lets us get back to what we're all really

30

good at, which is growing plants and focusing on

31

delivering products to the market that we're proud of. Yeah, which

32

is why I got into this. Yeah. And we want to give a

33

shout out to Glenn Berman, who made the introduction. Glenn.

34

Yeah, he's a good guy. We had him on the show previously, and he's a

35

good connector as well. Absolutely the best. How did you connect with

36

Glenn? So I've had the privilege of knowing Glenn for

37

4 to 5 years now. Okay. And I do feel like he really took me

38

under his wing. I think having the ability to work

39

closely with him in my previous career. I was at a distribution

40

company, Hydrofarm, where I spent 15 and a half

41

wonderful years. Glen kind of got rolled into that fold with GroTainer, and

42

I was already doing quite a bit with container farming, container growers,

43

working with some of the other larger people that were in the

44

space, you know, and some of the others that are still in the

45

space and getting to do it. Glen and I have a lot of

46

strong similarities in work ethic, in the

47

ability to look at a problem and possibly find a solution that

48

not everybody else saw. And I'm not always saying we have the same solution, but

49

we both were willing to get outside of the box and look what we could

50

put in that box and make people successful, because that's what we both care

51

about, is the success of our clients, because that's how we really

52

measure ourselves. Very well put. So let's rewind the clock back a

53

little bit. What was your first foray into

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CEA? Okay, that's a rewind. So I would

55

say my first real agricultural

56

experience, I had been working at a landscaping company. I think a lot of us

57

start our stories that way, and they kind of noticed I had a

58

knack for more along the lines of landscape architecture.

59

And at the time, at the end of high school going into college, I thought

60

that was pretty cool. I also was not the strongest science

61

student, so I kind of knew that that wasn't going to be my path, but

62

I knew I had a passion for plants. I made it all the way through

63

undergrad with taking every science class I

64

could regarding plant physiology, everything

65

except for the chemistry classes. I was never a chemistry whiz, but all of the

66

bios and all of that, and thoroughly enjoyed it. I did

67

technically grow up a country boy. We had very large

68

outdoor food production at my parents' house. My mom was an

69

avid gardener, a very early— well, early, I mean,

70

the rhododendron clubs. She had always been in a rhododendron society.

71

So we'd always have the roadies come by, you know, at least once a year

72

to inspect the rhododendron. The property I grew up on had

73

rhododendrons that dated back to the early 1900s.

74

Obviously, my mom did not plant those, but she was a— and still is

75

a steward of those plants. I've had the privilege of

76

working, as I said, at Hydrofarm for 15+ years. I have

77

worked with a multitude of crops, whether it was leafies,

78

lettuces, micros, medical plants, food

79

production. I've been very fortunate. I have a strong

80

backbone on understanding of horticulture.

81

You know, where I find myself today is a little bit

82

new, maybe for all of us in the CEA. I've developed— I

83

think I have a superpower. I'm ADHD and dyslexic, but one of the

84

positives of ADHD, or at least I find it as a positive, is

85

hyperfixation. And I would say for probably the past month plus,

86

I've been utterly hyperfixated on strawberry production. I

87

have done quite a deep dive. I did attend every single seminar on

88

strawberries at Indoor Ag, and I absolutely learned. I

89

took detailed notes, and then I've kind of consolidated my notes

90

and really trying to understand how we can

91

just transition an outdoor to an

92

indoor. And I do believe it's happening. People are doing it.

93

And I think, you know, the tomato space has been obviously

94

very populated for some time. Lettuce is

95

another great indoor crop, but it's also very well staffed. So

96

I think for me right now, my focus is strawberry production

97

and understanding how to bring it indoors. Specifically,

98

you know, controlled environmental agriculture is very near and dear to me. Yeah,

99

you're replicating sunlight, and I work for a lighting company, so

100

I feel like I'm in a great seat right now. We'll definitely get

101

into that. Where'd you grow up? I grew up in Wilkes-Barre, Scranton,

102

Pennsylvania. So if you've ever seen The Office— oh yeah, it's a

103

lot like that. And it sounds like there was some— that

104

early connection to plants and to food and farming. Tell

105

me a little bit about— a little bit more about that. Certainly. Well, one of

106

the interesting things about Wilkes-Barre-Scranton is we're on the

107

Susquehanna River, which is directly

108

connected into the Chesapeake Bay. And I have been

109

a lifetime member of the Chesapeake Watershed Association, Ducks

110

Unlimited, avid outdoors person. But, you know,

111

really being a steward of the earth where the town I came from,

112

it's a mining town. It was what built this community. My

113

grandfather was a miner. I'm a proud coal cracker. And that being

114

said, a lot of the mining has

115

adversely affected ecosystems. At one point, oysters were almost completely

116

extinct in the Chesapeake Bay. Thankfully, they're back now. Thankfully, we've

117

stabilized that ecosystem. But being cognizant of the

118

watershed lands and things of that nature is what really kind of pulled me

119

into agriculture and horticulture. You need the plants or you're going to

120

erode the soil, you're going to pollute the river, and it's all downstream

121

from there. I think that's a lot of things that people

122

hopefully are becoming more aware of, and it feels like it's taken— I

123

mean, I'm thinking about Rachel Carson's book Silent Spring, right? That's going back

124

to what, '60s or '70s? And that was like the warning of what's

125

happening, and it probably got worse after that. One right around there is Who Killed

126

Cock Robin, which was the DDT, which was the pesticides being

127

sprayed on plants, killing all the birds, causing— yeah, these all had

128

impacts on our lives one way or another. Yeah. So it sounds like that

129

really honed and developed in you this connection

130

to the land, to the water, appreciation for it, which

131

seems like it just paved the path for you to be in

132

food-related business. Absolutely. I mean, hydroponics is

133

something I truly care about. I do think that we need to preserve our water

134

supply. I think that we need to be cognizant of what we're

135

putting and feeding to these plants in indoor facilities and making sure that

136

we're picking the right path forward for future generations as

137

well. I mean, nobody wants glyphosate on everything. I understand there's a

138

time and a place, but please. Yeah, for sure.

139

Yeah, there seems to be more of an awareness too, and even, you know, people

140

thinking about the experiences they have when they go to places like Italy and they

141

have as much pizzas as they can, or France and eat as many

142

croissants, which I've done both of, and it doesn't have the

143

effect of like the wheat that we eat here and I've been dabbling in

144

some sourdough making as well recently. So I'm looking for those

145

heritage blends. And I found a company based in Minnesota

146

actually that had to go back to

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square one and made these heirloom seeds. And now they're growing heirloom.

148

And the guy had some— the founder had some celiac issues and

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he's with this new flour and this new blend that he created. He's not having

150

a problem. So kind of speaks a little bit to what we're putting in the

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ground. Volume. And I was an early proponent of,

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I understand celiacs, I understand people with sensitivities to that,

153

but it's glyphosate in my personal, personal opinion. And I am by no

154

means a doctor. Yeah, for sure. So in your

155

time with Hydrofarm, what do you think was the biggest takeaway

156

for you with that experience that you had there? What were some learnings?

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Absolutely. I mean, I was incredibly fortunate. I started there

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in 2010. I got to learn from

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the inside all the way out. Started in southern

160

Florida, worked my way up to larger territories, turned territories

161

around, got new territories. I have to say, Peter

162

Wordenberg is an absolute wonderful, wonderful man and

163

somebody I will respect for the rest of my life. He did more for

164

that organization and all the leaders to come. But Peter is somebody that I'll

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always respect, and he kind of gave me the ability to

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continue to grow in my role. Pushed me, expected higher

167

expectations, which I always tried to rise above and was

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very fortunate. Hydrofarm had a bunch of acquisitions. I was able to

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be on the acquisition teams for a few of these projects.

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Before Hydrofarm, I did also receive an MBA. So that I

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also felt like was fortunate, was in marketing and entrepreneurship. And I think

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we're all entrepreneurs one way or another. And, you know,

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when I was starting out, it was B2B brick-and-mortar hydroponic retail

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sales. So really, I don't want to ever think of my, I was one of

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those kids that knew they wanted to be a sales rep. My family had a

176

motorcycle dealership growing up, and it was always the coolest when one of the reps

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was coming to town. You always got to go for a dinner. You got to

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see the latest and greatest. So, you know, whenever Honda was coming to town,

179

whatever I was doing, if my best friend was like, hey, let's go. Nope, Honda

180

rep's coming. I got to go to dinner with my dad. We're going to sit.

181

We're going to— and I would— and he'd always show up in either, you know,

182

if it was summertime, he'd show up in a new Honda truck with a dirt

183

bike in the back or ride his Goldwing. Or it was just one of those,

184

like, even at, you know, 20 years old, I was like, yeah, this is it,

185

this is the coolest opportunity. Burned out on powersports

186

industry and, you know, found my way into the hydroponic

187

sector and kind of got to do that. I got to be the guy that

188

went from state to state and showed up and hopefully made some positive

189

impacts. I believe I did. And I— there are quite a few clients I'm still

190

in touch with to this day that are personal friends and, you know, their

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kids are, you know, now 15 years older. And it's

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cool to actually be able to connect with some of these people and continue our

193

conversations like nothing's ever changed. So I've been very fortunate.

194

That's great. The great story, too. And there is something about sales roles.

195

There's a fine line sometimes to get to that sleazy salesperson, the used car

196

salesperson, but the other one who understands the importance of building

197

relationships and building networks. And long-term

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partnerships. And I think when they're done well, and it's something I've had to

199

learn as an entrepreneur when I moved from my, you know, I was in corporate

200

20-plus years, got shown the door, and then I had to figure out

201

entrepreneurship, and which they don't teach you. So you gotta pay for

202

coaches and figure out like websites and landing pages and email

203

lists and all the things that like you don't have a need for. But then

204

sales is one of those skills, like, and when people do it and they do

205

it well, they really shine and they really stand out. And that's probably, you know,

206

what attracted you to this guy. Oh, absolutely. And I mean, I'm one of those

207

fortunate, I got to go to Honda and Yamaha sales school all growing up. I

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mean, highlight of my getting to sit and listen to somebody

209

lecture and hype you for his sales was I'm a diehard Notre Dame

210

fan and Yamaha brought Lou Holtz in and I want to say

211

like '99 and I got to watch Lou Holtz

212

get up on stage and get a room full of dealers

213

excited excited to go sell motorcycles. I could have torn a

214

table in half, I was so pumped and excited to see my— one of my

215

all-time coaching heroes up on stage, you know, yelling at us. I was like, this

216

is the best ever! That's so great.

217

So then let's pivot to RED. How did that come about?

218

Well, 15 years is long anywhere, and I really wanted

219

to focus on what truly makes me happy. And I

220

was thinking, you know, is it substrate? Is it nutrients? Is it

221

What aspect of our industry do I want to jump to a different industry? And

222

a dear family friend and I were talking and, you know, very successful businessman

223

but doesn't know our industry too well. He's like, what aspect makes you the happiest?

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I said lighting. He goes, well, I don't know your industry, but are there just

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lighting companies you can go work for? Sometimes the simplest and

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most obvious answer is it. And I started doing some research,

227

started looking at companies, and I wanted to find somebody that was not

228

necessarily in the US. And I read and I

229

kind of found each other. They had been searching LinkedIn and

230

one of the founders came across my profile right about the time I had come

231

across their website and it was almost too

232

perfect not to work. We talked, we had more

233

similarities than we realized in common, and it just felt

234

like the logical next progression for my career. Dynamic

235

lighting was something that I was vaguely familiar with. I knew

236

there were a lot of changes in LEDs, and the one thing I knew I

237

didn't want to do is just be a box pusher. I wanted to believe in

238

the product. I wanted to understand the product, and I wanted

239

to find solutions for people growing crops that

240

hadn't been presented to them. That's where I think the value lies.

241

If you have something that's unique and different, that's going to

242

make their day easier, make their crop healthier,

243

allow them more return on their investment,

244

for me, that's a win. That checks all the boxes I was looking for. So

245

I'm curious, what was the learning curve like? Because coming out of like

246

hydroponics and then moving into LEDs, and it feels like it gets more

247

technical. It does. Yeah. I will say I was

248

fortunate at Hydrofarm. I got to be quite involved in

249

our lighting solutions. I had been selling multiple

250

LEDs brands and house brands and others for

251

quite some time. That being said, I

252

absolutely was impressed once I kind of sat down and went

253

through Red's offering. It's a 4-channel dynamic lighting

254

solution that just literally endless potentials

255

for endless crop varietals. It really

256

intrigued me on how they're able to manage energy

257

as well as The United States does not have

258

some of the same constraints that they face in Europe with

259

kilowatts per hour surges in pricing and spikes. So

260

we're quite fortunate here. But that's one of the features that red

261

has is it can monitor and manage energy costs

262

based on kilowatt per hour. So, you know, if there's going to be a

263

spike increase, we could actually adjust the spectral

264

parameters and make sure that the red light is still

265

focusing, which is the most usable in

266

photosynthesis for the plants. So, you know, we could actually turn

267

channels off and allow for light to still be used at a lower

268

electrical cost. Okay, so for the

269

listeners who are not familiar with RED and the history, can you

270

kind of give a bit of a synopsis of that? So RED is

271

an 8-year-old company. It was started by 2

272

gentlemen, Luis and Yacine. They

273

have founded this through their grad school work. They were,

274

are both engineers, electrical and mechanical. And then

275

they have their third friend who is a computer engineer. All 3 of them

276

pretty much founded this company together. They've been building it brick

277

by brick. They've got about 10 million square foot under management in Europe.

278

Quite impressive. Some of the world's largest young plant

279

producers, some of the largest greenhouses are also

280

using them. Really, they look for the right customer

281

that's open to new technology, that's willing to

282

listen and learn with us. It's very unique and it

283

is very efficient and effective. And we're just

284

fortunate for every client we have and every client to come. I mean, it

285

really is a dream come true getting to work here. So imagine for

286

farms, it's a lot of it is dependent on where they're, what

287

they're growing, how big they want to grow, what they

288

currently have in terms of a tech stack, energy considerations,

289

location. So when you think about the current

290

clients, current clients with Red, are there consistent

291

patterns with people for whom like the tech stack is a good fit? Certainly. And

292

I would say right now our 85% of our business is done in high

293

wire crop production. Cucumbers is an absolutely

294

fantastic example of something we do exceptionally well. Okay. As

295

well as tomato production. I mean, tomatoes, the standard

296

recipe of 5,590 is what almost everyone

297

pushes. We've actually been able to increase yield bricks and

298

reduce energy consumption using our own proprietary recipes that you get

299

access to. On day one of deployment. That's one of the other really

300

cool things. Working for a French company, slightly different than

301

US, and I don't like using the term siloed, but

302

responsibility chain. So when you use RED,

303

I'm your salesperson, but we have an IT department that's going to work

304

with you. We use a proprietary wire mesh network. So

305

all of our fixtures can communicate. 3,000 fixtures can all make

306

an adjustment within 10 seconds. Americans. We have— it's unbelievable.

307

We also have an agronomic team that's dedicated

308

to crop support regardless of your crop. They actually have an R&D

309

facility in Nantes, France, where they do trials

310

on multiple varietals, and they change it sporadically or as clients

311

requested. Hey, I think I'm gonna do lavender, what are you seeing here? And

312

that was something we were able to do. Cucumbers, strawberries— they have

313

a strawberry chamber where they're actually doing work and have been doing

314

work for almost 8 years on strawberries, tomatoes, cucumbers.

315

One thing I did learn recently, and I'm— you never ask a question you don't

316

know the answer to, but we're not lawyers. I'm surprised at the amount of

317

greenhouses I've toured recently that are pepper producers that are

318

not using supplemental lighting. That was one for me that I just kind

319

of went, oh, that's interesting. And I still haven't found it out. So if anyone

320

wants to comment why, and you could educate me, I'd greatly appreciate it. Yeah.

321

So when you think about who is a good fit for RED and you think

322

about prep work or things companies should be

323

considering before, maybe even before having a conversation or

324

even considering like a revamp of their LEDs or

325

an installation of their LEDs, what are some of those things they should be thinking

326

of early on in this conversation? Great question.

327

I think they need to be ready to listen. And I

328

think, you know, when someone comes with something new, it's, it's hard to

329

listen, especially when it's a shock to everybody's system.

330

I think there are some ideas around

331

running high PPFD. You know, why would you change? Why would

332

Dynamic change anything? Like, are you running a high

333

PPFD? I have single-ended. I'm putting photons on

334

plant. Why do I need to do it? Well, High PPFD

335

alone doesn't necessarily create a balance. If your night

336

temperatures are high, your respiration offsets gains.

337

Are you adjusting your calcium for your fruit quality?

338

It's dynamic steering. And, you know, we need to understand

339

the totality of the house, the structure, the room that we're working in,

340

because a spectrum shift is

341

phenomenal, but we also need to

342

work in conjunction with your irrigation, with your nutrition.

343

It's not just photon count. You're synchronizing

344

psychology and it all has to come together to work

345

together. We want the whole process to come together for you

346

to be successful. And that's why you have access to the agro teams,

347

Rafael and the whole organization. And, you know, these

348

guys are all over Europe all the time, guys and gals. They'll

349

jump on planes at a moment's notice just to fly out to, you

350

know, Spain, Germany, Portugal. Hey, we've got,

351

you know, some new Eastern European countries. We're targeting everywhere.

352

And, you know, if our agronomists need to fly out there to take a look

353

and make sure that everything's dialed in properly, they're willing to do that.

354

No real additional cost to the customers because customer success is paramount.

355

That's great to hear. How would you differentiate the thought

356

process for a farm that is doing a brand new installation

357

or maybe getting a new glasshouse up and running or a new vertical farm up

358

and running versus someone whose maybe current

359

LED system is a bit long in the tooth. And so they're starting to think

360

about like maybe we need an upgrade and should we look at red? Absolutely. And

361

a couple of things immediately jump to mind and I feel like a realtor right

362

now, but location, location, location. It's going to be

363

obviously dependent upon rebates available.

364

And, you know, one of the things in certain instances this does come

365

up, are you current with your electrical provider? These

366

simple little things, because if you're not current, it's not going to get you out

367

of the hole. You need to be current for rebates. Once you're current

368

and with some of our solutions in certain states, you actually

369

get monthly rebates as well due to our

370

lack of pull on the grid where we can do certain things. Also, you

371

know, cogeneration is a great solution as well. But, you know, it really

372

comes down to is this the right fit for your farm, your

373

staff, your crop? And only the owners or the

374

day-to-day managers could answer that honestly. You know, I think everybody wants the

375

newest, latest, greatest Ferrari, but if you haven't driven in

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15 years, let's take it a little slow. Can you dive into

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the rebates a little bit? Because I think maybe folks that are just getting started,

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they don't understand. Is it a state-by-state issue? Is

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it Is it a countrywide? Oh, it is way more complicated than that. Find a

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good rebate company. I mean, I have my preferred, but they're all

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third party. They're all fiduciary

382

responsible to work on behalf

383

of the consumer, the person purchasing it. Yeah. So that I

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think is wonderful. And it really matters within each

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state because, you know, there are a multitude of electrical providers

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in each state. So, you know, just because you're in Columbus,

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Ohio, and your next farm could be, you know,

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down in Zanesville, you could have two different electrical providers, which would be different

389

rebate calculations. That being said, knowing

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your rebate there, you know, rebates don't necessarily make it

391

free. Rebates alleviate the cost.

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So you still may have to lay out cash at the beginning, and you will

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recoup You know, state by state, provider by provider,

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50, 60, 80, 100. We have seen north of

395

100. And where that gets very interesting and, you know, one of

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the things that you have to talk about is, look, you're tearing something down

397

and putting something up. There's a labor cost associated with that.

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Your facility is going to be down for a minimum of 2 to 3 days.

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Let's not deny the undeniable. So there

400

are costs associated with that. And certain states allow you

401

to account for that, which I think is

402

incredible. And in certain markets, we've had that pleasure.

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We're getting ready to deploy about 660 fixtures

404

into Illinois, and it's absolutely

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working out wonderfully for the garden, for the facility that's going to be taking it.

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The problem is it's every week is a harvest, so it's

407

going to take 10 rooms, 10 weeks, and they are going to be out of

408

pocket cash for 10 weeks and then they'll get paid back in full, but they'll

409

get some of the labor costs. Back. So the lights basically come in

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free, labor gets mitigated, and they will have a state-of-the-art

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facility where they'll be able to adjust spectrum

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from propagation all the way through harvest, final

413

harvest. And I think that's one of the other big points too, is when you're

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doing these complete overhauls, you've got

415

to look at the facility in total. Don't just say, hey, I'm going to do

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Flower Bay 3 and expect that you know, everything you're

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doing and, you know, from prop to veg into flower,

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there are going to be some differences and some nuances and some adjustments, you know,

419

the levers you'll have to pull. And at a high level, just like if

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someone was looking at the concept of rebates who's not familiar

421

with the industry and how things work, is it essentially just the state

422

compensating or reimbursing the farm and based on what

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they're spending in electrical output or how, what? At a high level,

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we'd have to get the highest level. It's not even state, it's the actual

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electrical provider because they're usually private companies.

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And yeah, they're basically going to say, you know, you've got X number of

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fixtures pulling X number of watts or amperage.

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This should be what your electrical drain on the grid is. Well,

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if you go to a higher efficiency fixture, which should be

430

less pull on the actual system. Okay. Makes

431

life a lot easier for them. You know, it's very interesting. And the easiest way

432

it was explained to me, the very first electrical grid in the United

433

States is in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Thomas Edison

434

did it down there, and that is the oldest grid in America.

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The rebates in southern New Jersey are quite

436

nice because it's cheaper to give rebates than to

437

build a new grid. How has

438

LED technology evolved? Because I started the podcast in

439

2020 and I was learning a lot about the industry and

440

LED technology specifically. It must keep

441

evolving quickly with like innovations. And I'm curious what you've seen in your

442

time there. I've been fortunate. I've seen LEDs progress

443

from very early COBs, the blurple light that we

444

all talked about an eon ago, to phosphor

445

coating to lens versus non-lens, different types of lens

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optics, optic versus non-optic, to where we sit today

447

with dynamic lighting. And there are plenty of people doing wonderful dynamic lighting

448

solutions. You know, look, I think there's enough space for all of us. It's,

449

you know, some people like pepperoni, some people like sausage, some people

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want cauliflower pizza. That's cool. I support all pizza.

451

LEDs, but they're ever evolving. I mean, I think— I don't think there'd

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ever be a point. I mean, we just brought out new fixtures. We're bringing out

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new technology all the time. We're upgrading what we currently

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have. One of the very important things for North America is

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DLC, Design Light Consortium. Spectacular group, Glaze

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Institute, you know, everybody. It's a bunch of very academically

457

oriented, very precise, very third party.

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I respect them immensely. And to be eligible

459

for rebates, you have to have DLC. There's some other parameters, 5-year warranty.

460

Certain level of efficacy to be, you know, able to

461

play in the games. And, you know, in different parts of the world, they

462

have their own set standards. That just happens to be North America.

463

And I happen to be the North American biz dev guy. So for me, that's

464

paramount. And we did just get our newest

465

and latest greatest DLC listings. It went exceptionally well.

466

It's a multi-bar fixture for our indoor Wonderful for

467

anybody doing indoor propagation or cultivation. It's

468

3.15 efficacy. I mean, it's a phenomenal fixture. Draco,

469

we have under canopy lighting where it, you know, 3.6. I mean,

470

it's spectacular. And doing all of this

471

technology and all these upgrades pushed other areas.

472

And we have other technology in Europe that we're going to be getting

473

DLC'd. It's a process. You have to submit it. It goes into Agoniosphere.

474

They do all types of lab tests to hook it up to electronics to make

475

sure that your claims are accurate. Okay. We're confident they are, and sometimes they

476

even come out better based on how they test it. That's a win.

477

And, you know, so once we get all those, we'll be bringing that technology

478

over. The new technology from Red, and I don't want to get too deep into

479

it, but we can throw square footprints. I don't know anybody else that can say

480

that. Cover a 4x8 area with a square perfectly.

481

How many of you have 4x8 tables in your facilities? It kind of

482

makes sense. Yeah. Kind of thinking ahead there. Is

483

there a nice win you had recently with a client without obviously getting

484

into specifics if you're not able to share, but, you know, I'm sure

485

if you think of— So I did just get to come. So I had

486

a wonderful week last week. And it's more of a team win. I

487

was not on board. I started with Red in August.

488

The deal was pretty much finalized by the time I got on, but we got

489

to go up to British Columbia, Vancouver area and

490

tour a very large strawberry greenhouse. And we

491

literally left Indoor Ag Con on Thursday at like 9:00. We flew out of

492

Vegas, landed at midnight, and, you know,

493

9:00 AM we were in the car on our way to a strawberry

494

facility and got to walk about. It was an 8-hectare

495

facility. I'd say 3-ish are

496

strawberry, the rest are cucumbers, but absolutely

497

beautiful. Really, really impressive work that those guys

498

are doing. I'm sure there'll be a press release coming out soon and I'll make

499

sure I tag you in it. It's very exciting and really has

500

gotten me excited more so about strawberries. I've had a few other

501

wins as well. In Michigan, we have some early adapters,

502

phenomenal group there. It's an MSO that is

503

continuing to grow, continuing to expand, and

504

they're deploying us into the Michigan market, the

505

Minnesota market. And then another market that they'll be entering very

506

shortly. So really wonderful there. It's, you know, people

507

buy from people and 50 years of relationships and

508

doing the right thing and being honest pays off. I mean, the good guys

509

and gals do win and just need to stay the course. That is

510

nice to hear. What else was a takeaway for you overall? You know, we talked

511

about, you know, reducing the hype at Indoor Ag Con, but every time I go,

512

It's nice. I've been going probably now for a

513

bit of a slap, gravitates. And I was thrilled with the time we got. And

514

yeah, it was just awesome watching you work. Thank you. But no, I would

515

say I think it was refreshing for

516

people to truly talk about plants again,

517

not the next round, next VC who's coming

518

in. You know, there was no doom and gloom. Nobody really went out of

519

there are a lot of these facilities that are no more, but, you know, it

520

wasn't the week before again where everybody's showing up and it's all condolences,

521

sorry, which, you know, in years past

522

we've all had to do that. Like, oh wow, that just came out. Yeah.

523

Where's that guy? Oh, he's not going to be attending this year because—

524

or he has hat in hand, which is even worse. Yeah, for sure.

525

So I like to ask this question. It's a bit of kind of helps you

526

think a little bit about what's on your plate recently and what you're working on.

527

But what is a tough question you've had to ask yourself recently?

528

Time management. It's hard. And I think I kind of already said it,

529

ADHD. I mean, time management for me is difficult, but I'm also

530

fortunate. I'm also part of a very small piece

531

of a new architecture group and very

532

excited to be doing some things there. RED is

533

100% my focus, but you know, whether it's an

534

architecture project, finding new leads there, whether

535

it's, you know, I do have a passion project I'm involved in

536

that is for the pharmaceutical industry,

537

which has to do with people with disabilities being able to

538

be self-reliant, being able to take their own medicine. You know,

539

that torquing motion on a pill bottle is actually very difficult

540

if you're arthritic or, you know, gosh forbid you're, you know, you're an amputee.

541

PT, you know, you're now relying on either using your chin or finding

542

another mechanism to be able to take the meds throughout the course of the day.

543

I can't— I'm not— this isn't even a plug, but it's a one-handed enclosure

544

that you can open and get your meds out

545

and be self-sufficient. That's great. It's one of those projects that once it

546

came across my desk, it was too good not to be part of

547

something making a positive impact. And it doesn't always have to

548

be what you do, it's what care about too, which I think is important. That

549

seems to be an underlying thread that I

550

get from you in our time together and our conversation together and the stories you

551

shared and what you shared about the past and how I saw you working the

552

floors at Indoor AgCon. Where does that come from? I know the

553

answer. It's almost embarrassing to say it out loud though. Being told you couldn't

554

do something as a child. Oh, you're not going to be able to do that.

555

Or that sounds like— I went to a private school growing up. Yeah.

556

Dyslexia was difficult on me. And my school's

557

requirement was to graduate 8th grade, you had to take 3 years of

558

Latin. I was exempt from that because I was dyslexic. And I

559

actually thought that was unfair. I wanted to take Latin. I wound up

560

taking 8 years of Latin. Now, I'm not going to say I was an A

561

student. I wasn't a B student. I was like a C-. But

562

you know what? Dogged determination. Yeah. I think that pays.

563

And I think it also helped me just realize, look, if you work hard,

564

you put the time in, you learn, you really can

565

achieve, you know, and I think my parents' work ethic, but you know,

566

being told you can't do something is usually the greatest motivator for most people.

567

For sure. Well, thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate

568

that kind of peek into what makes you tick. And it sounds like, you

569

know, everything that you've done from your early interest in hydro

570

farms, the connections you've made, the mentors you've had. You

571

mentioned a couple of people that have been instrumental in there, and it's so fascinating.

572

Sometimes it's hard to measure our progress when we look back to yesterday or the

573

week before, but sometimes we do have to look back at the 5-year, the 10

574

years, like, oh yeah, like I have grown, and oh yeah, I did

575

develop some new skills. Also, shout out to my wife. She has been an incredibly

576

supportive human, and yeah, the reason I get out of bed every

577

single days from my 6-year-old son that I would move

578

heaven and earth for. And I think that also is pretty damn

579

important in my life. That's very important. Well, yeah, I appreciate you sharing it. I'm

580

really grateful that we've been able to connect and then you had some time to

581

come on here and share the story and share the success you've been having with

582

RED. I think it's, you know, we've, we talk a lot about all the different

583

technologies and a lot of times it's helpful to have the backstory

584

about, you know, not just like Pick this one tech and

585

it'll make your farm that much better.

586

But you mentioned the sales piece too. So it's almost like, hey, you're looking to—

587

the sense that I get is with the work you're doing for RED, you're helping

588

to build relationships, long-term partnerships.

589

And I think that's really important. Yeah, yeah. People buy from people.

590

Well, anything else that you're thinking about in terms of the future for RED or

591

for the LED space that has you excited? Excited? A lot.

592

I want to be able to

593

help bring more crops to people in food deserts. Glenn's

594

pretty big on that. I think that container farming is going to

595

become a significantly larger role in the U.S. You know, the whole

596

grow local, eat local movement's wonderful, but

597

know your farmer, know your butcher, go plant some

598

seeds in your own backyard. I mean, you know, with everything going on

599

today, I'm not a crazy person, but having some

600

vacuum-packed seeds is not a bad thing. Go buy,

601

go buy, you know, non-GMO organic seeds that you

602

can just have at a moment's notice. Yeah, it's going to take some time, but,

603

you know, owning seeds makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

604

That's great advice. Yeah, we're dabbling a little bit in that. We've got chickens now

605

and we're doing some planting. We just had a nice harvest of garlic. That's awesome.

606

So it's every— a little bit helps. And for this city boy, you know, grew

607

up just outside New York and lived in New York City and lived in LA,

608

it was a bit of a shift. But I've come to appreciate the

609

ethic. And not that we have a farm, but people who grew up on a

610

farm, and I've noticed it, like, you know, it's to a person,

611

there's just a built-in work ethic about we just got to get

612

up, got to get the work done. Eat sheep growing up? Ducks,

613

dogs, cats, all types of critters. And yeah, it's one of those, you got

614

to go, go clean the stalls and throw the hay and

615

make sure the alfalfa— yeah, absolutely. It's one of those, you know, you kind of

616

forget what you have done. And yeah, kind of nailed that. Yeah.

617

Yeah. Well, thanks again, Andrew, for your time. I really enjoyed this conversation. I'm looking

618

forward to building our relationship and our partnerships and

619

appreciate everything you're doing, not only for, you know, the

620

CEA space, but just everything you're doing on a personal front.

621

That seems like your heart's in the right place. I appreciate our friendship and building

622

this relationship. We got forward to many more. Thank you. Look forward to coming back.

623

So the website is horticulture.red. Anywhere else you want to send folks?

624

Horticulture.red is number one. And then if

625

you are looking for any architecture, 2WR.

626

And keep an eye out for SnapSlide. Hopefully we'll be at a pharmacy near

627

you soon. It's in its infancy, but we're doing everything we can. Check them out

628

on LinkedIn. It, it'll definitely bring a smile to your face. Okay. Make

629

sure— give me those links. I'll make sure everything's in the show notes as well.

630

I appreciate the time together. Thank you, guys. Thank you all. Bye.