Shownotes
Topics:
(00:43) Intro
(08:07) Mardi Gras
(15:38) Spies
(27:58) Morrison's Religious Motivation
(34:19) Flour Massacre - More Misleading Headlines
(43:12) Cut Sales of Military Parts
(52:09) Aaron Bushnell
(54:45) Chalmers and the RBA
(59:23) Paul Keating is not The Messiah
(01:03:03) George Galloway
(01:16:22) Farewell
(01:16:45) Galloway Continued
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Transcripts
Suburban Eastern Australia, an environment that has, over time,
Speaker:evolved some extraordinarily unique groups of homosapiens.
Speaker:But today, we observe a small tribe, akin to a group of meerkats, that
Speaker:gather together atop a small mound to watch, question, and discuss the
Speaker:current events of their city, their country, and their world at large.
Speaker:Let's listen keenly and observe this group fondly known as the
Speaker:Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove.
Speaker:Welcome back, dear listener.
Speaker:Yes, the Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove podcast talking about news
Speaker:and politics, sex and religion.
Speaker:Ah, we're here in, well, I'm in Brisbane, Australia.
Speaker:Scott is in Mackay, regional Queensland.
Speaker:Scott, how are you?
Speaker:Good, thanks Trevor.
Speaker:G'day Joe.
Speaker:G'day listeners.
Speaker:I hope everyone's well.
Speaker:And Joe is with us, but our tech guy is having a technical problem and
Speaker:beforehand his audio was a bit scratchy.
Speaker:So with fingers crossed, I say, Joe, how are you?
Speaker:Hopefully that's fixed it.
Speaker:No, it's not really improved yet.
Speaker:Yeah, it's still dodgy, Tech Guy Joe is going to just do his tech magic on his
Speaker:own audio and we'll try and chime in from time to time, but don't know how
Speaker:much of Joe we're going to get in this episode, while he sorts his stuff out.
Speaker:Anyway, we're going to talk about, well, we'll just catch
Speaker:up on some personal things.
Speaker:What are we grateful for?
Speaker:we're going to talk about the Sydney gay and lesbian Mardi Gras.
Speaker:Scott might have opinions on that.
Speaker:Spies, our spy agency was talking about a politician who's a spy and
Speaker:then subsequently revealed that the, the spying group that he hadn't
Speaker:referred to was actually China.
Speaker:And a little bit about the departure on Scott Morrison and the religious sort of
Speaker:motivations behind a lot of what he did.
Speaker:And we have to talk about Gaza again.
Speaker:It's just It just keeps going worse and worse and, a bit about Assange, a
Speaker:bit about, Jim Chalmers and the Reserve Bank, and maybe we'll get time to do a
Speaker:little bit on this guy, George Galloway, who won a by election in the UK.
Speaker:Did you guys get a chance to see any of the stuff around him?
Speaker:No.
Speaker:Right, okay.
Speaker:Which seat was he running for?
Speaker:Was it Boris Johnson's old seat or not?
Speaker:No, I don't know which, I can't remember the name of it, but I'm really interested
Speaker:in him because of just his rhetorical style in dealing with With journalists,
Speaker:so that's the part that got me.
Speaker:A little bit like that guy who was the head of the union, the railway
Speaker:union, was it Mick something or other?
Speaker:And just the way he wouldn't take shit from people, particularly
Speaker:journalists, and would just, would call out nonsense questions.
Speaker:And this guy has a similar style, which I find very refreshing.
Speaker:Now, he might be completely nuts on some issues, I'm not sure,
Speaker:but just He is, apparently.
Speaker:, we got that, Joe, that he is apparently, but then we missed the
Speaker:other part that you said anyway, we'll, we'll persevere with things.
Speaker:thank you to the people.
Speaker:Well, if you're watching on the live stream, you'll see that I'm not wearing
Speaker:glasses and Scott finding it difficult.
Speaker:Well, just unusual.
Speaker:I've worn glasses since I was 16, and yeah, got the intraocular lenses, so,
Speaker:right eye was done on a Wednesday, left eye done on the Thursday, and I
Speaker:was certified to drive on the Friday.
Speaker:Scott, quite incredible, isn't it?
Speaker:It is very bizarre.
Speaker:Yeah, and I did drive to the Sunshine Coast on the Saturday
Speaker:and could see perfectly fine.
Speaker:So, are the lenses, they're man made lenses?
Speaker:Yes, they're courtesy of Johnson Johnson.
Speaker:Okay, gotcha.
Speaker:So, yep, they hold your eye open for about 15 minutes and Cut the, the, God given
Speaker:lens out, Scott, and whack the, the jelly like plastic one in there and, off you go.
Speaker:So, anyway, it's working well.
Speaker:Are they now permanently attached there, or do they come out?
Speaker:Yeah, they're in there permanently.
Speaker:Okay, gotcha.
Speaker:Yeah, and, very good for distance and okay for reading, and at the moment the,
Speaker:just sort of looking at the computer screen is probably the worst distance
Speaker:at the moment, but hopefully I've still got, Some improvement left in my eyesight
Speaker:as my brain and eyes work together.
Speaker:But for somebody who's had glasses since I was 16, like just these different things.
Speaker:Every time I walk into the shower, I just go to reach for my
Speaker:glasses to put them on the sink.
Speaker:And, going to bed at night or getting up in the morning, I reach for the glasses
Speaker:that aren't there and open the oven.
Speaker:I was cooking something the other night.
Speaker:I opened the oven door, a lot of heat came out of the oven, I thought.
Speaker:Well, this is going to fog up my glasses and then nope,
Speaker:because I wasn't wearing glasses.
Speaker:There's a whole range of different times where I've just automatically
Speaker:thought I have glasses on.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:So, very interesting.
Speaker:So, anyway, I recommend it, dear listener, if you're, got sort of cataracts.
Speaker:happening.
Speaker:And, yeah.
Speaker:Alison in the chatroom says congratulations on your new eyeballs.
Speaker:I remember when I got my eyes lasered 20 years ago and it was life changing.
Speaker:There you go.
Speaker:So, yeah.
Speaker:Brian's had his eyes lasered too.
Speaker:He now wears reading glasses.
Speaker:That's it.
Speaker:That's amazing, how many people have actually had it done when
Speaker:you start talking about it.
Speaker:So, so yeah, so, and so thank you to the people who sent messages
Speaker:wishing me a speedy recovery.
Speaker:I was very slack in not actually responding, but thank you Mark
Speaker:and Paige and anti US sentiment and thank you Paul from Canberra.
Speaker:and anybody else who I might have missed who sent a well wish, thank you.
Speaker:yeah, so, things we're grateful for.
Speaker:Now dear listener, by the way, this podcast has chapters, so if you don't
Speaker:want to hear our little shenanigans about our personal life and stuff, on
Speaker:your podcast app, look for chapters and you can scoot past different topics.
Speaker:And get into the meat of things straight away, if you don't want
Speaker:to listen to the guff, but anyway.
Speaker:Having said that, things we're grateful for.
Speaker:So on the PEP, the Planet Extra podcast, they kick off with the things
Speaker:they're grateful for segment, which I think is a useful thing to do.
Speaker:Watley's not so sure about it, but anyway, let's just give it a go.
Speaker:they mentioned, archive.
Speaker:md, This is a website you've got to try if you want to get
Speaker:past, paywalls on newspapers.
Speaker:So if you go to archive.
Speaker:md and type in the URL of an article from Sydney Morning Herald or The Australian
Speaker:or something like that, that's behind a paywall, you'll get access to it.
Speaker:Incredible.
Speaker:Don't know how long that's going to last.
Speaker:This thing sort of pretends to be Google and gets in that way.
Speaker:That makes sense.
Speaker:So, so that's just been an interesting thing to use.
Speaker:and then in terms of things I'm grateful for, I would say anesthetic.
Speaker:Because I love it.
Speaker:When I'm in some sort of day surgery or something, and they start
Speaker:putting a needle in your arm and tell you you're going to be going
Speaker:to sleep, and it just is fantastic.
Speaker:I love a shot of anaesthetic, so yeah, there you go,
Speaker:that's what I'm grateful for.
Speaker:Scott, anything that you're grateful for?
Speaker:I was grateful that Nikki Haley kicked Trump's ass in the Washington DC primary.
Speaker:Did she?
Speaker:Yeah, that was just reported this afternoon on my new daily that I got.
Speaker:Is there something unusual about the Washington, well, I guess
Speaker:the Washington, they all hate It's just the Washington area.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:They do hate Trump.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And so she kicked his ass in that.
Speaker:But you know, like they said, you got, you got to win 1, 285 delegates.
Speaker:She's got 14 now.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So, you know, I think.
Speaker:Trump's going to win that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:So, Scott, before we get on to just the recent events with the Sydney Gay and
Speaker:Lesbian Mardi Gras and the fact that the New South Wales Police were asked
Speaker:not to march in the parade, I remember talking or hearing from somebody.
Speaker:He was kind of pissed at the Mardi Gras as having been overtaken by
Speaker:oiled up, muscly types of extravagant, over the top, sort of, gay and
Speaker:lesbian and queer community members.
Speaker:And it kind of mis overpowered, misrepresented, ignored the more low key
Speaker:Members of that community, who I think you would fall into the category of, Scott.
Speaker:That category, you know, it's, it's one of those things.
Speaker:I have never attended anything to do with the Mardi Gras or anything like that.
Speaker:I haven't been down for it or anything else.
Speaker:there was one time that me and Brian were heading down to
Speaker:Sydney and that sort of stuff.
Speaker:And I said, well, if we waited a week, we could go to Mardi Gras.
Speaker:Is there any interest?
Speaker:And he says, not really.
Speaker:So that's just our attitude.
Speaker:Now, you know, we're.
Speaker:Two old, cis, white, gay men and that sort of stuff, we just Don't.
Speaker:We don't like it.
Speaker:Well, it's not that we don't like it.
Speaker:It's not your scene.
Speaker:It's just not your taste.
Speaker:No, exactly.
Speaker:You know, I can, I remember there was a years and years ago, I
Speaker:remember I was reading the, they had, taken out the, what was it?
Speaker:No, is it, was the, poet and that sort of stuff in Sydney that was a famous queer
Speaker:Can't remember what his name was, but he had, he was writing to one of his other
Speaker:lovers and he says, I don't see what the, I don't see what a bunch of screaming
Speaker:queens parading up and down Oxford Street are going to do for our cause.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So anyway, having said that, it started off as a protest
Speaker:march and that sort of stuff.
Speaker:And those people in 1978 had a hell of a lot to be very pissed off about,
Speaker:you know, they were treated very badly by the cops and everything else.
Speaker:Now, the cops have recently apologised for the homophobic attitudes that
Speaker:were prevalent in the police force at the time, and they said that a lot of
Speaker:cases that went unsolved were because of homophobia and that sort of stuff,
Speaker:where they said, well, you know, it's just a pair of queers, don't worry
Speaker:about it, and that sort of thing.
Speaker:So it was, it was a very disgusting time in our society.
Speaker:So that was the one thing where I thought to myself, okay.
Speaker:This is okay for the organisers to ask the police not to march in uniform.
Speaker:The second thing was the most recent event of that guy that, was a copper
Speaker:and that sort of stuff that used his service weapon to Sorry, just backtrack.
Speaker:You're saying back in the day when it first started that the
Speaker:Police were asked not to march.
Speaker:No, no, they were, they were just recently asked.
Speaker:The recent event.
Speaker:Yeah, they were just recently not asked to march in uniform because in 78 they broke
Speaker:it up and that sort of stuff and they, they met the, they met the protesters
Speaker:with Trojans and that type of thing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So dear listener, just for background, recently, there was the arrest
Speaker:of serving officer Beaumont Lamar Condon over the alleged double murder
Speaker:of a missing Sydney gay couple.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:serving officer arrested over the double murder of a gay couple.
Speaker:So that's what's happened in the last week or so.
Speaker:Yeah, that was the second thing that happened in the last week or so.
Speaker:I couldn't tell you what was the main.
Speaker:What was the main impetus behind the organizing committee
Speaker:asking the police not to march?
Speaker:Well, that was it.
Speaker:It was that second one.
Speaker:Well, what was the other one?
Speaker:The other one was the apology that was handed out to people and that sort of
Speaker:stuff over the years of neglect and everything else from the police force.
Speaker:I hadn't heard of that.
Speaker:I'm sure it was in response to this.
Speaker:That doesn't surprise me.
Speaker:It doesn't surprise me at all that that was in response to that.
Speaker:Now, I'm in two minds.
Speaker:I think the second thing was probably the least that they had to
Speaker:worry about and that sort of stuff.
Speaker:Like, you know, the coppers, the coppers shot those two and everything else
Speaker:because it was a Love Triangle that went wrong, and he shot them both.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:I mean, But Brian said that one look at his social media would ring enough
Speaker:alarm bells to think to yourself that you wouldn't want to go out as a
Speaker:copper, but anyway, it is what it is.
Speaker:But I mean, every community has a, has its good and bad apples.
Speaker:Of course we do, exactly, and it's one of those things, that's why
Speaker:I just think to myself that, do I think that the cops should have been
Speaker:beat, excuse me, do I think the cops should have been asked not to march?
Speaker:Not over that incident.
Speaker:No, not over that incident.
Speaker:I mean, what if he was, what if, a motorcyclist, you
Speaker:know, murdered a gay couple?
Speaker:Like, did everybody riding a motorcycle end?
Speaker:Or, you know Well, then you might have a problem with the docks
Speaker:on bikes then, you never know.
Speaker:Yeah, it's kind of like you've It's not like the police force encouraged in any
Speaker:way the murder, it's just by a member who was acting on their own, on their own,
Speaker:without representing the group at all.
Speaker:So Joe, is the argument that the police were slack?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And, and that's, okay.
Speaker:But were they particularly slack because towards the gay community, to the
Speaker:LGBTIQ community, or were they just, because I mean, he could have murdered
Speaker:a heterosexual couple or something.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:I think.
Speaker:Still having trouble with you, Joe, but we'll keep going, anyway, they
Speaker:changed their minds, apparently, so the Mardi Gras organisers later
Speaker:reversed their decision and allowed police to march in plain clothes.
Speaker:Is what happened, so.
Speaker:Yeah, I know, which is, I would have thought that you'd want them there in
Speaker:uniform, because the 78ers, who were the first in that first Mardi Gras, they had
Speaker:a hell of a lot to be very pissed off with the New South Wales Police Force.
Speaker:Because they came round, they came round whatever corner it is on
Speaker:Oxford Street and they were there lined up across the streets and
Speaker:that sort of stuff with truncheons and they beat the shit out of them.
Speaker:You know, Then when they were finally invited to march and that sort of
Speaker:stuff in uniform, the 78ers all gave them hugs and everything else when
Speaker:they came around the corner, so that was a Very positive movement on behalf
Speaker:of the police and that sort of stuff.
Speaker:Which is why I think that it's No, I'd probably reverse my decision.
Speaker:I think the Mardi Gras committee should have never actually tried to ban them
Speaker:and that sort of stuff from marching.
Speaker:You know, I just think to myself that that one bad apple has
Speaker:tarnished the entire bunch.
Speaker:Yes, unless they've got some pretty strong evidence of systemic Issues in
Speaker:the police force, then, I think that was a poor decision, because you really, you
Speaker:really want the police to be exhibiting to everybody that they're accepting of
Speaker:the LGBTIQ community, and, will treat them as equally as any other group, so,
Speaker:short sighted decision, I think, that one, but, I think it was very short sighted.
Speaker:Yeah, so, so that was that one, Spies, Scott.
Speaker:so, the head of ASIO It's the word, name the bloke.
Speaker:No, so the head of ASIO it could be either a guy or a girl, you never know.
Speaker:Indeed, could be.
Speaker:so the head of ASIO, Mike Burgess, has alleged that a former Australian
Speaker:politician, quote, sold out their country, party and former colleagues.
Speaker:After being recruited by spies for a foreign regime.
Speaker:so that was the head of ASIO.
Speaker:But he refused to name who the politician was.
Speaker:And, he said, Most commonly they offer their targets consulting opportunities.
Speaker:Promising to pay thousands of dollars for reports on Australian
Speaker:trade, politics, economics, foreign policy, defence and security.
Speaker:Don't we have a former Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, former Minister
Speaker:Pine, former Treasurer, Joe Hockey.
Speaker:A lot of former guys who are working with other foreign governments and
Speaker:other foreign Yeah, but they are actually working with their allies.
Speaker:They're not actually working with China, which is what,
Speaker:which is one of those things.
Speaker:I just think to myself that, yeah, if you know, we're not,
Speaker:it's, it's one of those things.
Speaker:Now, I, at the time, you know, I've changed my mind on something else too.
Speaker:Now this is, I heard this on a podcast, just recently.
Speaker:It was, I think, forget who it was.
Speaker:You've changed your mind on whether, on naming this guy?
Speaker:No, no, no, no, no, this is something entirely different.
Speaker:Now this is something entirely different because, they were actually saying,
Speaker:they were saying at the time, On the podcast, they were saying that, yes,
Speaker:you want us not to actually go out there and consult and that sort of stuff.
Speaker:I understand why, but at the same time, you took away our lifetime pension, which
Speaker:is the only way a politician is ever going to make money is either from a lifetime
Speaker:pension or go out and consult somewhere.
Speaker:So they were actually saying that, that you've actually, if you're going to,
Speaker:if you're going to implement a ban on politician, on former politicians going
Speaker:into consulting, then you actually got to, you got to replace their income.
Speaker:Which did actually, it backed me into a corner.
Speaker:I thought, you bastard, you've got me there.
Speaker:Well, couldn't they work in an area unrelated to the portfolio they were in?
Speaker:I don't think that, I don't think anyone would want to talk to them.
Speaker:People change careers and work in but I just don't think anyone would want
Speaker:them there, because they didn't have, they don't have any of the contacts or
Speaker:anything else that they're paying for.
Speaker:But people are expected these days to change jobs.
Speaker:regularly, and, and not just employers, but also the nature of their jobs.
Speaker:Like, you know, the job people are doing in their twenties or thirties
Speaker:will be different in their forties and different again in their fifties.
Speaker:Like, there's an expectation that everybody else sort of has career changes.
Speaker:it's not like they can't earn money doing something else, but just
Speaker:unrelated to, particularly a minister.
Speaker:Unrelated to the portfolio they were in, I don't think, if they're worth
Speaker:their salt, they should be able to get a job somewhere doing something.
Speaker:Yeah, one would have thought so.
Speaker:So you could be a defence minister and, and go and work in some
Speaker:sort of other capacity in the economy besides defence, surely?
Speaker:Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker:It's just one of those things.
Speaker:It's just one of those things that made me examine my own thoughts
Speaker:and that sort of stuff on it.
Speaker:Anyway.
Speaker:There's going to be a limited number of places that you can
Speaker:go that you haven't worked in.
Speaker:But you pick up skills in being in government.
Speaker:In management.
Speaker:In management.
Speaker:What I'm saying is if you've been minister for education and then got shuffled
Speaker:into defence ministry and then shuffled into, you know, that leaves you with a
Speaker:lot less places you can go work.
Speaker:Yeah, but I think what we're actually saying is, you know, you've got this
Speaker:problem with this revolving door, like, you know, Pine is probably the
Speaker:most recent example who left He left the government as a defence minister
Speaker:and then popped up on a board and that sort of stuff for some yank defence.
Speaker:Yeah, him and John Hockey and all the rest are all lining up companies to get
Speaker:on the gravy train with the whole Orcus deal because there's money to be made.
Speaker:And look, maybe for ministers?
Speaker:Look, why not?
Speaker:Give ministers a lifetime pension and say, to keep them happy, whatever it takes.
Speaker:But, I'd love to have superannuation.
Speaker:That would be if they scrubbed the economy, they'd be as
Speaker:screwed as the rest of us.
Speaker:Yeah, right.
Speaker:so yeah, so, and what do you think of Whether he should have named
Speaker:the politician involved, Scott?
Speaker:I
Speaker:think it's very amusing right now sitting there watching them tear each
Speaker:other apart over it and that sort of stuff like, you know, you've had Malcolm
Speaker:Turnbull's son and that sort of stuff come out recently and say that he was
Speaker:offered and that sort of stuff a a position on a firm and that type of thing.
Speaker:you've also got Dutton, that's the stuff's throwing rocks, saying it
Speaker:was probably a former Labor, Labor member, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, Dutton came out and said, I bet you it was a Labor guy.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly, which I don't think you could actually say that for certain
Speaker:that it wasn't actually a Labor guy.
Speaker:It might well have been a Labor guy.
Speaker:But, you can't be certain of that.
Speaker:Particularly when Turnbull's son was approached.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, yeah.
Speaker:He's probably a Labor guy now.
Speaker:Sorry?
Speaker:He probably is a Labor guy now, given the state of the Liberal Party.
Speaker:Turnbull's son is probably a Labor guy, but, look, I've got a theory.
Speaker:Yeah?
Speaker:The reason why he didn't give any details, and he didn't name the politician,
Speaker:was because Because he'd been sued.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:Because there wasn't enough there to actually, get people worried.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:And that it's a, and that he's really, oh, head of ASIO comes out and says all
Speaker:this, oh, there's this, major operation, can't tell you anything about it.
Speaker:there's a politician involved, can't tell you anything about it.
Speaker:Probably, if it, it probably was, it's possibly a very minor matter
Speaker:that you'd think, well, where was the, there's no major security risk
Speaker:there, no major damage to Australia.
Speaker:Oh, it wouldn't surprise me if it was a very lightweight.
Speaker:And one of his reasons for not revealing it is because he's trying to beat up
Speaker:the importance of and need for ASIO.
Speaker:Now, using that new website that I talked about, which was the webpage archive one,
Speaker:I managed to look at, this afternoon, a City Morning Herald, article, and in
Speaker:that, They say that China's leading spy agency was revealed as the organisation.
Speaker:In an exclusive interview with this Masthead and 60 Minutes, ASIO Director
Speaker:General Mike Burgess told them it was China, but he hit back at calls for him
Speaker:to identify the traitorous ex politician.
Speaker:so, In his, sort of, initial statement, Burgess referred to this A Team, and
Speaker:in his meeting with the Masthead, the Sydney Morning Herald, he
Speaker:revealed that this A Team was China's Ministry of State Security, MSS.
Speaker:In that same article, they referred to an Alan Joski, J O S K E, a
Speaker:leading Australian scholar on Chinese intelligence, and he says that
Speaker:China's spy agency has decades of expertise operating around Australia.
Speaker:Historically its operations have been hidden through a veneer of
Speaker:academic or business relationships.
Speaker:And it's difficult to systematically root them out.
Speaker:Once an Australian is inside China, they're on MSS home turf, where it has
Speaker:the greatest ability to use its coercive powers and surveillance capability.
Speaker:And as an example, he cited a small Australian media delegation to China last
Speaker:year as part of a long standing exchange program, where the group met with Chinese
Speaker:journalists and foreign affairs analysts.
Speaker:And, Joskey says one of those analysts was a spy officer.
Speaker:Bernard Keane, writing in Crikey, said, Well, he was on that trip
Speaker:as one of the media people.
Speaker:And basically it was just a media trip and yes they were in China and he
Speaker:said he expects that he would have met more than one person who was a spy.
Speaker:He expects he would have met scores of them and of course
Speaker:he was getting a party line.
Speaker:It was still an interesting and worthwhile experience.
Speaker:And he says that, you know, he's no lover of China.
Speaker:what does he say here?
Speaker:Um, I was part of the delegation and I'm somewhat puzzled by
Speaker:McKenzie and Joski's claim.
Speaker:said he would have been having contact with lots of spies, he assumes.
Speaker:And, he said this was when they were just the first group of
Speaker:Australian journalists allowed to come to China since the pandemic.
Speaker:And he said, did it change our minds on China?
Speaker:I suspect not.
Speaker:Certainly in my case, I still think it's a monstrous regime.
Speaker:So Bernard Keane and Crikey isn't a China lover, but he just makes the point.
Speaker:It's just a delegation goes, meets people, and that's an example used in
Speaker:a fear mongering article in the Sydney Morning Herald as an example of the
Speaker:coercive efforts by the Chinese spy agency that delegations are taken over.
Speaker:Honestly, when you read this Sydney Morning Herald article, it does all seem
Speaker:like a bit of a beat up over nothing, and the fact that this ASIO head hasn't Given
Speaker:any specifics about who the politician is and what he revealed, what do you
Speaker:think the worst case could be, Scott?
Speaker:Imagine what could a regular politician, let's just say not a minister, any
Speaker:other politician, what secret could they reveal that would be worthwhile to China?
Speaker:That they didn't already know.
Speaker:That's the whole point, you know.
Speaker:We are awash with foreign agents over here in this country.
Speaker:You know, it's just that China's the latest boogeyman.
Speaker:Now, you know, everything that happens over here, the Yanks know about, the
Speaker:British know about, the Kiwis know about, the Canadians know about.
Speaker:The Indians probably over here finding out stuff too.
Speaker:It's, it's just, it is what it is, you know.
Speaker:It's What, what could, what do you think they'd say?
Speaker:We now have these weapons.
Speaker:Well, it's pretty public knowledge in the agencies as to what
Speaker:weapons we're buying from America.
Speaker:The capabilities of these weapons are X, Y, Z.
Speaker:Well, they already know the capability of these weapons.
Speaker:And what would an average politician know of any significant detail that would be
Speaker:advantageous to a foreign spy agency?
Speaker:No, it's probably all just a media beat up that Burgess was
Speaker:carrying on with, you know.
Speaker:He said that, you know, if you just listen to the language, a traitorous former MP.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Well, who was he, who was he, who was he treasonous with?
Speaker:What did he actually hand over and that sort of stuff, and then
Speaker:that would be the end of it.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Because I honestly believe that they actually did find out
Speaker:what he actually handed over.
Speaker:He would be sitting there saying, and, you know.
Speaker:I think that's my theory that I'm working on.
Speaker:So, so, so yeah.
Speaker:That's the spy agency, matter.
Speaker:And we'll see what comes of that down the track.
Speaker:Scott Morrison has departed the room, finally.
Speaker:Yeah, finally, yeah.
Speaker:And, let me just see what, what his comments were.
Speaker:this is the calibre of part of his, farewell.
Speaker:Quoting Scott Morrison here.
Speaker:We should be careful about diminishing the influence and voice of Judeo
Speaker:Christian faith in our Western society.
Speaker:this was in an interview with a friendly journalist.
Speaker:As doing so risks our society drifting into a valueless void.
Speaker:It's all about respecting each other's human dignity through our creation,
Speaker:by God's hand, in God's image, for God's glory, where each human life
Speaker:is eternally valued, is unique, is worthy, is loved and capable.
Speaker:Thank Christ we don't have to listen to that prick anymore, Scott.
Speaker:He was an absolute tool, wasn't he?
Speaker:I don't think Christ had anything to do with it.
Speaker:Joe, you're sounding better.
Speaker:Whatever you did.
Speaker:I'm on my 5G connection.
Speaker:Okay, that's it.
Speaker:Why weren't you on that before?
Speaker:What were you on before?
Speaker:Oh, that's 5G.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Ah, okay, instead of your, No, I was on my Fiber before.
Speaker:There you go.
Speaker:Well, you're coming through beautifully now, Joe.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Feel free to contribute.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Anything you want to bite into about what we said before?
Speaker:I was merely saying that maybe it was a former, Member of Parliament who was
Speaker:taking trips to South East Asia, and then ended up getting married over there.
Speaker:Yeah, but most of the South East Asian countries are our allies, so
Speaker:And again, what could he possibly have revealed of any significance,
Speaker:other than The location of some fun houses or something, who knows.
Speaker:But, Hardacre, David Hardacre was writing in Crikey a lot about Morrison and
Speaker:the Pentecostal movement and whatnot.
Speaker:And, you know, he's commenting on the departure of Morrison and, really with
Speaker:Morrison and, together with, Brian Houston sort of having a major influence.
Speaker:by Pentecostals on Australian society.
Speaker:And, he said that throughout Morrison's time in office, the question of the
Speaker:influence of religion on his politics has been largely off the table, not a
Speaker:question to be asked in polite company.
Speaker:I like to think that we're not guilty of that.
Speaker:If there's one thing that this podcast does is ask, what
Speaker:is the religious faith of?
Speaker:Politicians.
Speaker:And then, and then start theorising about whether that's
Speaker:had an effect on their politics.
Speaker:And, not enough people have done it.
Speaker:The sort of gist, is it gist or jist?
Speaker:I always get this wrong.
Speaker:Gist, isn't it?
Speaker:Gist?
Speaker:The gist of the, of the article is that maybe we should be examining
Speaker:people's religious belief if we're trying to understand what they're doing.
Speaker:Yeah, so you, you got it right there, Trevor, you know, you were the first.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, I do think that Scott Morrison is a particular.
Speaker:Brand of religious that, no, he's very forthright in his religion.
Speaker:He actually, honestly believes all that crap that is in Revelations
Speaker:is only just around the corner.
Speaker:You know, and that is a very frightening thing that you can actually If someone
Speaker:truly believes all that sort of nonsense, and they're actually making plans and that
Speaker:sort of stuff, then that possibly explains why he walked into, walked into Parliament
Speaker:that day with a hunk of coal in his hand.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So there were some very specific things like the push to move the Australian
Speaker:Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, and also pledging multi million dollar grant
Speaker:to a Pentecostal rehab centre in Perth.
Speaker:Which later had to close down because of its harsh religious based
Speaker:treatments, such as casting out demons.
Speaker:So there's a few specific things like that, but when you're looking at the
Speaker:secret portfolios that Morrison and trying to understand the mentality of
Speaker:somebody who would do that, Tim Costello was saying that The Pentecostal style of
Speaker:leadership can cast some light on that.
Speaker:And he says that the Pentecostal model is that God has blessed me and my decisions.
Speaker:The theology is that God anoints the leader, that the leader casts the
Speaker:vision, and in the governance sense, the people have to be loyal to that vision.
Speaker:Which, he says, is different to the Baptist model where decisions
Speaker:are taken by church congregations, which makes for slower and more
Speaker:difficult decision making process.
Speaker:So, the Pentecostal model has this anointed leader where everyone
Speaker:is supposed to be loyal to them.
Speaker:That would be some explanation for Morrison's secret ministries.
Speaker:Mm hmm Yeah, so anyway, it doesn't explain all of it, but would be part of it It
Speaker:explains it explains a fair amount of it.
Speaker:It doesn't explain everything but explains a lot about it Mm hmm.
Speaker:Yes, and then of course, there's just this whole prosperity gospel
Speaker:thing which is really if you're If you're not wealthy and doing well,
Speaker:you're clearly not in God's favour.
Speaker:So it's an indication you're not in God's favour, so you must be
Speaker:doing something wrong and you therefore deserve it to some extent.
Speaker:That's kind of what happened.
Speaker:To explain robo debt and stuff like that, where there was just, the
Speaker:other aspect of his personality.
Speaker:So, yeah.
Speaker:Scott Morrison, heading off into the sunset, thank goodness.
Speaker:Hello Scott.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Now, more headlines.
Speaker:So, last couple of weeks I've been referring to headlines in
Speaker:particular, I think in relation to Gaza, that are kind of misleading.
Speaker:And, oh, I was listening to something, I think it might have
Speaker:been the Geopolitical Economy Report.
Speaker:Ah, Geopolitical Report?
Speaker:Anyway, there was like this study done of people reading news sources,
Speaker:and essentially A significant number.
Speaker:Maybe it was 40, 50% of people just read the headline and don't go any further.
Speaker:Would that make sense to you, Scott?
Speaker:Yeah, it does.
Speaker:You know, it's one of those things if I, if I'm, if I've got a, if I've haven't,
Speaker:if I've got a hell of a it on and all that sort of stuff, I do look at the headlines.
Speaker:I then didn't do the read, read the first couple of paragraphs, then move on.
Speaker:Hmm, so I'm about to read some headlines and okay, deep within the
Speaker:body of the article there might have been more damning, words written about
Speaker:Israel's actions, but, just examining the headlines and bearing in mind
Speaker:that people quite often just read the headline, it's interesting to look at,
Speaker:at some of the differences, so you guys would be aware of the Flower Massacre?
Speaker:Okay, Where there was this flour being distributed, flour, F L O U R, in Gaza,
Speaker:and, a lot of people milling around and, you know, scrambling for flour because
Speaker:they're starving, and, Israeli troops.
Speaker:Shot them.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:So, the different headlines describing that, Sydney Morning Herald, Dozens
Speaker:killed while waiting for food aid, Gaza Health Authorities say, so, they
Speaker:were killed while waiting for food aid, just by some mysterious action,
Speaker:and then also downplayed because it's Gaza Health Authorities say,
Speaker:meaning a subtle inference, you know, if you can believe what they say,
Speaker:So, that was Sydney Morning Herald.
Speaker:City Morning Herald again, more than a hundred killed as troops
Speaker:fire on Palestinians seeking food.
Speaker:No mention of who those troops actually were.
Speaker:this was a straight up one from the Courier Mail that I saw, Israeli troops
Speaker:shoot Gazans scrambling for food.
Speaker:Well, that's pretty much telling it as it was.
Speaker:And, that's a far more compelling image than the other two that I just read out.
Speaker:New York Times, As Hungry Garzons Crowd an Aid Convoy, A Crush of
Speaker:Bodies, Israeli Gunshots and Chaos.
Speaker:So, not really blaming the Israelis for it, just one of the incidents
Speaker:that happened amongst many.
Speaker:And what was this one here?
Speaker:ABC News?
Speaker:I reckon the ABC's been quite poor on the whole Gaza thing.
Speaker:ABC News.
Speaker:Gaza authorities say, again the influence, if you can believe them,
Speaker:Israeli troops open fire near aid truck.
Speaker:IDF says trampling happened.
Speaker:seems like people, yes, were trampled, running away from the
Speaker:gunfire that was opened up on them.
Speaker:the BBC.
Speaker:More than a hundred die in crowd near Gaza aid convoy.
Speaker:Doesn't mention how, or why, they just died in a crowd.
Speaker:the Cradle is a place I've been going to lately, this website.
Speaker:Israeli troops gunned down thousands of Palestinians awaiting aid in North Gaza.
Speaker:So that's kind of like the Curiamar one.
Speaker:So, it's just an example of how these organisations Just through
Speaker:their headlines are manipulating people's thoughts on, on the same set
Speaker:of facts depending how it's worded.
Speaker:So, you know, none of that you would say was, you know, factually wrong.
Speaker:But it's all the subtle propaganda that, Western media outlets are conducting.
Speaker:People talk about propaganda in Russia and China and other Totalitarian regimes,
Speaker:at least the people in those regimes know, okay, it's government propaganda,
Speaker:I'm not sure what to take into account here, but there's so many people.
Speaker:Yeah, but, you know, of those two that you just mentioned, the BBC and the ABC,
Speaker:they're 100 percent government owned.
Speaker:Yes, yes.
Speaker:You know, which is one of those things, you know, it's I would actually hope that
Speaker:the ABC is actually genuinely independent, but it's beginning to look like they are
Speaker:pushing a government line for Israel.
Speaker:And the New Zealand, version of the ABC is really cracking down on, internally,
Speaker:on people referring to it as genocide.
Speaker:So they're really basically telling reporters and editors.
Speaker:Not to use that word.
Speaker:so.
Speaker:Caitlin Johnson wrote a good article on it and, let me read some of this.
Speaker:Um, um, the Washington Post.
Speaker:Chaotic aid delivery turns deadly as Israel Gazan officials trade blame.
Speaker:Um, More than a hundred killed as crowd waits for aid, Hamas
Speaker:run health ministry says.
Speaker:That was another BBC headline.
Speaker:Yeah, bunch of examples here, she goes into.
Speaker:And making some good points about the different treatment
Speaker:by different organisations.
Speaker:And she's saying that the only good thing about what's happening in Gaza
Speaker:is that it's waking Westerners up to the fact that everything they've
Speaker:been told about their society, their media, and their world is a lie.
Speaker:Not everything, Caitlin, but just, I think it is, I think it's the headline or the
Speaker:name of this podcast episode, like, Garza is performing the role of Toto, who tugged
Speaker:at the curtain and Dorothy the straw man and the tin man looked behind the
Speaker:curtain and saw the wizard was something that they didn't think the wizard was.
Speaker:And that, I think people can recognize the horror and the craziness.
Speaker:of the Gaza situation and look at, well, the treatment by the media of it, and
Speaker:just, I think it's becoming more obvious to people, that sort of propaganda, and
Speaker:maybe more obvious to people just the double standards that are being levied,
Speaker:where if any other country other than Israel was doing this, clearly the
Speaker:world would be up in arms and doing far more to stop it than what they are.
Speaker:I think, I think this Gaza situation is so bad it's, what do you think?
Speaker:Is it a sort of a bit of a tipping point maybe in people's understanding of how
Speaker:the world works and the West favours?
Speaker:Western allies and it's a double standard.
Speaker:I don't think it's actually that sort of tipping point.
Speaker:I think it is probably a tipping point for the way people perceive Israel right now.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:I think that people are actually starting to Turn away from Israel, and they are
Speaker:starting to cling on to those, slogans and that sort of stuff that the Palestinians
Speaker:have always said, you know, from the river to the sea, Palestine should be free.
Speaker:Fair enough.
Speaker:What are you going to do with the Jews that are there?
Speaker:You know, it's one of those things I, You know, I think that a terrible mistake
Speaker:was made in 1948, and you've just got to live with the consequences now, so.
Speaker:Or die with the consequences.
Speaker:Well, exactly, or could die with the consequences too.
Speaker:It's one of those things, you know.
Speaker:I think we've examined the, the whole start of the war and everything like
Speaker:that, at infinitum, so there's probably no point in me rehashing that, but,
Speaker:Yeah, I, I think, I think, I think we mentioned a while ago as well, just
Speaker:the reference to an apartheid state.
Speaker:Yeah, it is.
Speaker:It's an Apartheid state.
Speaker:You know, and I think that I think that is resonating with people as
Speaker:well Yeah, absolutely because it's something we all kind of remember.
Speaker:Mmm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So what could Australia do?
Speaker:We make parts for F 35 bombers.
Speaker:Did you know that?
Speaker:I didn't know that.
Speaker:And we're selling parts to Israel and all that sort of stuff that
Speaker:are presumably being used in the Israeli war machine to level Gaza.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So we're selling parts for F 35 machines that are then being used
Speaker:to commit human rights atrocities.
Speaker:And so the proposition from people is.
Speaker:That, we should stop supplying, military spare parts to Israel.
Speaker:And just if you want to know how much we have been, according to this article,
Speaker:so in Michael West Media, wrote that over 70 Australian companies supply
Speaker:parts and maintenance to F 35 bombers.
Speaker:Um, every F 35 contains some Australian parts.
Speaker:And a Senate hearing in October 2023 revealed Australia had approved
Speaker:322 permits for defence goods to be exported to Israel since 2017.
Speaker:So 322 permits.
Speaker:And And a similar hearing in February revealed that two approvals have been
Speaker:made since the 7th of October incident.
Speaker:so we, since 7th of October, there's been two approvals for defence
Speaker:goods to be exported to Israel.
Speaker:And, Department of Foreign Affairs and trade figures show that there's been
Speaker:some 10 million in arms and ammunition sales to Israel in the past five years.
Speaker:Turns out we sell ammunition as well, and what we've got is Penny Wong says,
Speaker:we're not exporting arms to Israel.
Speaker:Well, she's clearly wrong there.
Speaker:Well, what she's, she's being, sneaky because it depends how you measure arms.
Speaker:So another article from Michael West, shows that, there's a UN
Speaker:register of conventional arms.
Speaker:And what that's interested in is accounting for arms that
Speaker:are moved around the world.
Speaker:And they don't count spare parts because there would be a lot of double counting
Speaker:of ammunition if you were counting parts.
Speaker:So they're more into counting completed items.
Speaker:And so Penny Wong would be saying that we're not sending completed
Speaker:items, but ignoring the fact that we're sending vital parts.
Speaker:And so that's, that's the sort of shit that we would have expected
Speaker:from the Morrison government, but we're getting it from this Albanese
Speaker:government and Penny Wong, this, this sort of dishonest legal work.
Speaker:I don't expect it from Labor to be honest.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I had hopes of better, but we're not getting it.
Speaker:so, so yeah, in the, in the Netherlands, the Dutch.
Speaker:the appeals court ordered the government to stop the export of F 35 bomber
Speaker:parts to Israel citing the clear risk that it was being used for war crimes.
Speaker:And we've signed treaties saying that, there's an arms trade treaty where you
Speaker:agree that you're not going to sell arms if there's a risk of violations
Speaker:of human rights and international law.
Speaker:humanitarian law.
Speaker:You've got to be sure that's not going to happen with the parts that you're selling.
Speaker:It doesn't talk about completed items, that one, it talks about parts.
Speaker:And so arguably we're in breach of a treaty that we signed up to that says
Speaker:you don't sell parts to groups who are potentially committing human rights
Speaker:abuses, which would seem to be Israel.
Speaker:So fair arguments in all of that to What do you reckon, Scott?
Speaker:Should we stop selling F 35 spare parts and should we cease further
Speaker:sales of ammunition to Israel?
Speaker:Get off that fence, Scott.
Speaker:No, I don't think we should because, Israel's been found, no, they've been
Speaker:ordered to provide more information to the Dutch court over that
Speaker:South African case, haven't they?
Speaker:Oh, the South, the International Criminal, whatever it was, the ICJ.
Speaker:Basically told them, we stopped doing a whole bunch of things and come
Speaker:back to us in a month and report to us about some other things.
Speaker:So, It's one of those things, it looks and smells like they are committing
Speaker:war crimes and that sort of stuff, but they haven't actually been.
Speaker:My understanding is the International Criminal Court hasn't actually
Speaker:completed its accusation of Israel and that sort of stuff and said
Speaker:that you've actually done that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So I think Unless you've got some sort of definite, well, you are committing these
Speaker:crimes and this sort of stuff, you've actually got to pull back and that sort of
Speaker:thing, then I don't believe that we should actually have to cease our export of those
Speaker:goods and that sort of stuff to Israel.
Speaker:According to this treaty, all you need is an overriding risk that the
Speaker:weapons will be used in such breaches.
Speaker:So, because you're not going to get criminal, you're not going
Speaker:to get court decisions on, on.
Speaker:On genocide, you know, these things take time, and you should be able to
Speaker:say there's a real risk here that there are human rights abuses being performed
Speaker:with these spare parts, and while that risk is there, stop selling them.
Speaker:Yeah, but there's profits on the line, come on.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, I know there's prophets on the line.
Speaker:It's, it's one of those things like, you know, it's, it's, Can I give
Speaker:you the case of the Netherlands?
Speaker:In making their findings, the court relied on evidence from the United
Speaker:Nations and Amnesty International showing that almost half the bombs
Speaker:dropped by Israel on Gaza are dumb bombs.
Speaker:Unguided bombs are generally not precise.
Speaker:And targets had included hospitals, schools, refugee camps, homes,
Speaker:markets and religious buildings.
Speaker:Like, we know that's the case.
Speaker:It's, it just requires human rights, international human,
Speaker:international humanitarian law.
Speaker:Just breaches of that.
Speaker:You don't need genocide.
Speaker:Just breaches of international humanitarian law.
Speaker:If they haven't, it's It's a clear risk that that's what's going to happen
Speaker:with the parts that we send, surely.
Speaker:What do we sign these treaties for if we're not going to I
Speaker:have no idea what the parts are.
Speaker:Yeah, well, it doesn't matter.
Speaker:It's a part that helps an F 35 fly.
Speaker:And the F 35 is dropping the bombs.
Speaker:If it's for an ejector seat.
Speaker:If it's They can't fly it without it.
Speaker:Great.
Speaker:Like if it's an ejector seat, okay, we can't fly the plane.
Speaker:So, without an ejector seat.
Speaker:Great!
Speaker:That stops, that stops them bombing.
Speaker:I don't see how that makes a difference, Joe, but anyway.
Speaker:Yeah, Ah.
Speaker:They've all gone silent in the chat room.
Speaker:We're down to three people anyway.
Speaker:I think that, You're okay with us then, Scott?
Speaker:No, it's one of those things, it's, I don't think we should be
Speaker:selling them any weapons right now.
Speaker:Not until they've actually ceased the Not until they've actually agreed to
Speaker:a ceasefire and that sort of thing.
Speaker:And once they actually agree to a ceasefire, then they can pull out and
Speaker:then We can then open the floodgates and start selling weapons to them again.
Speaker:The Houthis are showing us up.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, the Houthis have actually, they've scored a hit.
Speaker:There is a, ship that has gone down in the Red Sea.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:I didn't see that one.
Speaker:Yeah, there's some, it's going to be a disaster for the environment.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it's also a ship that had nothing to do with Israel or
Speaker:the United States or Europe.
Speaker:It was flagged under a country whose name escapes me.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:According to who?
Speaker:I
Speaker:don't know.
Speaker:Whatever report I was listening to.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Ah.
Speaker:It's one of those things.
Speaker:I don't think that they're all sweetness and light, Trevor.
Speaker:No, I don't think they are either.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Anyway.
Speaker:Hey, you, you heard about the guy who was a, an American, serviceman
Speaker:who Set himself on fire outside the Israeli embassy in Washington.
Speaker:Self immolated.
Speaker:Yes, as a form of protest about America's involvement in the whole Gaza crisis.
Speaker:Have you heard about that, Scott?
Speaker:No, when I read the email that you sent out yesterday.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:independent journalist Talia Jaynes reports she was able to obtain
Speaker:footage of the incident, and as he was setting himself on fire saying,
Speaker:he will no longer be complicit in genocide and yelling, free Palestine.
Speaker:So, according to this person, and I'm pretty sure it was confirmed by other
Speaker:people, a police officer showed up pointing a gun at the man's burning body.
Speaker:And as, as Caitlin Johnson says, I guess that's just what American cops
Speaker:do when they aren't sure what to do.
Speaker:Someone who was actually trying to save the man reportedly yelled, I don't
Speaker:need guns, I need fire extinguishers.
Speaker:And according to Caitlin Johnson, this just might be the most
Speaker:American thing I've ever heard of.
Speaker:You simply cannot fit more America into a single incident.
Speaker:And a man dying of a horrifying death in protest of war crimes, while
Speaker:a first responder screams at cops to stop pointing their guns at him
Speaker:and to go get fire extinguishers.
Speaker:If you were to pick a single moment in history to sum up the
Speaker:essence and expression of the US Empire, that would be it.
Speaker:A friend of mine in Florida said there was a shooting near him recently.
Speaker:The police had arrested a guy, got him in cuffs in the back of the car.
Speaker:And an acorn fell on the car, so they both pulled their weapons and emptied
Speaker:the full clip of ammunition into the car.
Speaker:None of the bullets hit the guy.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:So both of them would have shot, I don't know, eight to nine rounds each
Speaker:and none of them managed to hit a guy who was in handcuffs in the backseat.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:I heard that story too.
Speaker:I thought to myself, Jesus Christ, you know, they've got some
Speaker:very bad shots on their cuffs.
Speaker:Trigger happy and bad shots.
Speaker:Another black mark against the Albanese government.
Speaker:And our treasurer, Jim Chalmers, because there's currently a provision in the
Speaker:Act that governs the Reserve Bank, gives the government a form of reserve powers.
Speaker:Which it can be used in extreme circumstances, and there's a complex
Speaker:process that can happen when the Treasurer and the Bank are unable to reach
Speaker:agreement, whereby the Treasurer of the day, the elected Treasurer, Minister,
Speaker:can tell the Reserve Bank, what to do.
Speaker:and it's a complicated process, and it's to be used in extreme circumstances,
Speaker:and Chalmers is proposing to get rid of that ability so that a treasurer
Speaker:cannot use that emergency power to tell the unelected Reserve Bank what to do.
Speaker:Yeah, because he's, he's, he's upholding the principle of
Speaker:an independent Reserve Bank.
Speaker:But the section's already there, the power's there, it's been there.
Speaker:I know the power's there and it's just come up.
Speaker:But what about democracy?
Speaker:Well, okay, but, if you, if you had that, if you got that power there and
Speaker:that sort of stuff, I don't believe they should bother removing it.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:However.
Speaker:It's there.
Speaker:If you had a position that, If we went back to the way it was prior to when
Speaker:the Reserve Bank didn't actually set the interest rates, but Keating did, then you
Speaker:could have a situation where a politician could actually say, no, we don't want the
Speaker:interest rates to rise because that'll fuck us over when it's the next election.
Speaker:So we've actually got to, we've got to keep downward pressure on interest rates.
Speaker:that is probably my major concern with not having an independent Reserve Bank.
Speaker:Let me just describe the process.
Speaker:If they're unable to reach agreement, the Treasurer and the Reserve Bank,
Speaker:the RBA has to give the Treasurer a statement about the difference of opinion.
Speaker:The Treasurer can then decide on the policy the bank must adopt
Speaker:following an order he arranged.
Speaker:for the Governor General to issue on the advice of the Executive Council.
Speaker:The Treasurer has 15 sitting days to give each House of Parliament a copy of
Speaker:the policy order and other documents.
Speaker:So it's quite an open process that if our Treasurer and the Reserve Bank are
Speaker:at war over some issue, it's pretty obvious to everybody what it is.
Speaker:so you're not going to have a treasurer and this sort of stuff
Speaker:intervening on the interest rates issue or anything like that?
Speaker:Not on a, you know, quarter percent move, half a percent
Speaker:move, here or there or whatever.
Speaker:In an emergency, he's the elected treasurer.
Speaker:Yeah, I can understand that.
Speaker:And it's not like this Reserve Bank has got a great track record.
Speaker:of, of knowing what it's doing and where we've, and where we've
Speaker:stood back and we've gone, thank goodness the Reserve Bank was in
Speaker:charge rather than the politicians because they were ahead of the game.
Speaker:They saw things that the other guys didn't see.
Speaker:the change has been criticised as a mistake or the proposed change hasn't
Speaker:happened yet by former bank governors, Ian McFarlane and Bernie Fraser.
Speaker:So former Reserve Bank governors have said.
Speaker:Leave the power there.
Speaker:Plus treasurers Paul Keating and Peter Costello have also come
Speaker:out and said, What are you doing?
Speaker:Leave it there.
Speaker:There was a, there was a, an inquiry into the Reserve Bank following its,
Speaker:you know, its, its poor performance.
Speaker:And one of the recommendations in the inquiry was this.
Speaker:And Chalmers has said, Oh, well, I'll adopt that measure.
Speaker:And people are going, Just because it's a Recommendation in an inquiry
Speaker:doesn't mean you have to adopt it.
Speaker:So, but good news, Scott, an alliance between the Greens
Speaker:and the Liberal parties.
Speaker:Now there's Yeah, that's, we'll keep that, we'll keep that under control.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:When, when did we, did we ever expect to perform that sentence in this podcast?
Speaker:An alliance between the Greens and the Liberal parties, is going to force Jim
Speaker:Chalmers to keep a government power, is, is what, The Guardian is saying so.
Speaker:Strange bedfellows there.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:there was an article in Crikey that we should stop treating
Speaker:Paul Keating like a messiah.
Speaker:I've probably been guilty of that at times.
Speaker:Well, I think he has got very much a messianic, complex.
Speaker:You know, you know, he's right on Orcus, I think he's right on that, but, you
Speaker:know, everything else that he's been pushing is exactly the same crap he was
Speaker:still banging on with about in the 1990s.
Speaker:Like, if you actually, if you actually listen to half of what he says,
Speaker:then you would be convinced that the superannuation laws and that sort
Speaker:of stuff were entirely his idea.
Speaker:You know, and everything else that's come from it is entirely his idea,
Speaker:well it wasn't entirely his idea.
Speaker:And you know, the other stuff that he's actually talking about, and
Speaker:that's the stuff just recently, as in six months ago, he's talking about,
Speaker:well, you know, if you don't spend it, the government should get it.
Speaker:You know.
Speaker:That is absolute garbage because it's a, it is a If you don't spend
Speaker:it, the government should get it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:In relation to what?
Speaker:In relation to superannuation.
Speaker:Oh.
Speaker:Also when you die.
Speaker:Yeah, the government should get it.
Speaker:Rather than you, rather than you being able to leave it behind
Speaker:to any of your family members.
Speaker:Keating said that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:One of his policies apparently, recently, something that, Keating says is, there's
Speaker:an issue that all society should have of how far a person's consciousness How
Speaker:far a person's conscientious efforts and wealth should be delivered to the state?
Speaker:Once you start getting the top rate over, in my opinion,
Speaker:39%, it becomes confiscatory.
Speaker:And when they become confiscatory, you lose all that impetus to make
Speaker:a dollar and do clever things.
Speaker:So he's running the argument that a tax rate above 39% Rich people are
Speaker:going to just stop working and stop acquiring wealth because they have tax.
Speaker:I think that's a load of crap, you know You know It's one of those things like
Speaker:dad once told me that back in the 50s and 60s you had tax rates that maxed out at
Speaker:85 percent or 90 percent Now you had to earn a hell of a lot of money to actually
Speaker:pay that amount of tax But you know, I just think to myself that if someone is
Speaker:If someone is earning 10 or 12 million dollars a year and you actually put up
Speaker:their income tax on their final, you know, if you, if you let them, if you
Speaker:let them earn up to a million dollars a year and that sort of stuff, then after
Speaker:that you start increasing the tax rates.
Speaker:Then I just think to myself that no one's going to turn their nose up on an
Speaker:extra two million dollars a year if they only get 200, 000 of that, because 90
Speaker:percent of it's gone to the Commonwealth.
Speaker:According to the writer in this Crikey article, this proposal by Keating isn't
Speaker:backed by economic research, so economist Thomas Piketty, famously wrote Capital,
Speaker:Emmanuel Saez and Stephanie Stantcheva estimate that a socially optimal top
Speaker:tax rate could be as high as 83%.
Speaker:And Piketty's mentor, Tony Atkinson, estimates, estimated 65%.
Speaker:Sarez, previously estimated 73%.
Speaker:so, lots of well known economists put the figure a lot higher than Keating's, 39%,
Speaker:at which time people will stop, doing anything because they're getting taxed.
Speaker:Do you honestly think that anybody is going to pay the top rate of tax anyway?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:If you're that rich, you're going to afford accountants to hide it away.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's difficult to hide, yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Ah, where are we at?
Speaker:We've been going an hour and a quarter.
Speaker:Ah, I was tempted to do this Galloway thing, but it's quite lengthy.
Speaker:I might save it for next week.
Speaker:A guy called George Galloway.
Speaker:We'll talk about him next week in his rhetorical style.
Speaker:I do know that my UK friends were very, upset that he won.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:He's got a colourful History and background.
Speaker:Do you win for the Labour Party or do you win for the Conservative Party?
Speaker:The Workers Party.
Speaker:So he's previously been a member of one of the major parties,
Speaker:but he's formed a Workers Party.
Speaker:So it was a by election and he beat all comers and won as
Speaker:his Workers Party candidate.
Speaker:Now it was in an electorate with a high Muslim population, and he is a very
Speaker:big advocate on anti Zionism and pro Palestine and a long history of pro Libya,
Speaker:pro Hezbollah in their fight against, Israeli aggression on the, on the border.
Speaker:So, the comment I see is another Putin funded stooge in
Speaker:the British political system.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Was the, was the commentator's, no, no, no, no, this was in a private forum.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:So, so, yeah, there'd be lots of, if you'd scratch the surface with this guy, there
Speaker:would be lots of stuff that would be, I'm sure, a little bit on the crazy side.
Speaker:Oh God, yeah.
Speaker:But, oh, but we're talking about him now.
Speaker:Let's play the clip.
Speaker:It's seven minutes.
Speaker:I think we're going to be okay with a seven minute clip.
Speaker:This is a long form podcast.
Speaker:Scott, you don't have to go anywhere.
Speaker:You've got ten minutes.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Ignore, ignore the content of his policies, but just in a Keating esque
Speaker:approach to dealing with journalists.
Speaker:Loved what this guy's approach was, so here we go, a bit of, Galloway
Speaker:on how to deal with the media.
Speaker:Yeah, I'll play this.
Speaker:I'm standing here at George Galloway's campaign headquarters.
Speaker:George Galloway, did you just watch the Prime Minister's speech?
Speaker:I didn't watch it, but I understood the first part of it related
Speaker:to The Rochdale by election.
Speaker:The Prime Minister has just said that your election of you to
Speaker:Parliament is beyond horrifying.
Speaker:What do you say to that?
Speaker:Well, I can understand how disappointed he is about the by election.
Speaker:The Conservative Party, which is the government of the country, was crushed,
Speaker:not just by me, but by an independent candidate that no one had ever
Speaker:heard of before outside of Rochdale.
Speaker:So it was a disastrous night for the Conservatives and a
Speaker:disastrous night for Labour.
Speaker:I got more votes than Labour and the Conservatives and the Liberal
Speaker:Democrats and the Reform Party.
Speaker:Put together, which adds up to a pretty crushing rejection of the two party
Speaker:system, so I understand why he's alarmed.
Speaker:I want you to address some of the specifics that the Prime Minister,
Speaker:said about you this evening.
Speaker:He said that you backed Hezbollah.
Speaker:Is that true?
Speaker:I don't know what that means, backed Hezbollah.
Speaker:I I oppose Israel's occupation of Lebanon and I respect the right of people in
Speaker:occupied territory to resist their occupier, and I've done so since Hezbollah
Speaker:was formed and Israel occupied much of Lebanon, right up to the Litani River.
Speaker:Regularly bombing Beirut and so on.
Speaker:so, I'm not sure what business that is of his.
Speaker:Because, you see, the The Hezbollah are a terrorist, terrorist organization.
Speaker:Actually, they're part of the government of Lebanon, a country with which we
Speaker:have sovereign diplomatic relations.
Speaker:I had this debate with Sky's Anna Botting in 2006.
Speaker:It's quite an epic clip, you should watch it.
Speaker:More than a hundred million people have.
Speaker:They said all these things about me in the by election, and in the
Speaker:by election, it was them that got crushed in the democratic process.
Speaker:So I'm not sure why he would reheat it.
Speaker:Now, we're talking about little Rishi Sunak in the fag end
Speaker:of his prime ministership.
Speaker:Don't talk to me as if he's come down from the mount with tablets of stone.
Speaker:The things that he says are somehow meant to owe me.
Speaker:They may owe you, they don't owe me.
Speaker:A lot of people have just watched what the Prime Minister said.
Speaker:This is your opportunity to respond to what he said.
Speaker:He says that there are forces here at home trying to tear us apart.
Speaker:He is implying you are a divisive figure.
Speaker:You have run an election campaign that has tried to appeal particularly, not
Speaker:entirely, to one section of the community.
Speaker:Who won the election?
Speaker:Me or Rishi Sunak?
Speaker:I've got the democratic mandate here, not Rishi Sunak.
Speaker:He didn't even come second.
Speaker:He was lucky to come third.
Speaker:So, don't put to me statements made by Rishi Sunak as if I'm
Speaker:supposed to be impressed by them.
Speaker:We don't, he don't impress me much.
Speaker:We at Sky have spent some time today on the streets of Rochdale, and there
Speaker:are people who say that they feel intimidated by people like you and
Speaker:the people that have supported you.
Speaker:I have just won.
Speaker:And they have pointed out that you have concentrated your campaign on
Speaker:foreign affairs and they worry that Rochdale will not be the winner.
Speaker:I have amended it.
Speaker:That's my answer to you.
Speaker:I was just elected with a thumping majority by the electorate in Rochdale.
Speaker:That's all that matters to me.
Speaker:So why are there people in the streets of Rochdale today worried?
Speaker:Well, people voted yesterday, and they voted for me.
Speaker:Why is that difficult for you to grasp?
Speaker:Why are there people in the streets worried?
Speaker:There may be people who didn't vote for me who are worried.
Speaker:But the majority, the thumping majority, voted for me.
Speaker:I've got the mandate, and I'm going to the House of Commons with it.
Speaker:And it's a mandate, you think, to do what?
Speaker:Because there are people that listen to what you say, what you say about whether
Speaker:or not Israel has a right to exist, what you say about what many Jewish
Speaker:people think are threatening slogans.
Speaker:We had this conversation last night.
Speaker:Why are you reheating it?
Speaker:Because in the light of the Prime Minister's statement Don't
Speaker:keep telling me about the Prime Minister as if he was Moses.
Speaker:Do you not respect the Prime Minister?
Speaker:He's, he's I don't respect Do I respect the Prime Minister?
Speaker:I despise the Prime Minister.
Speaker:And guess what?
Speaker:Guess what?
Speaker:Millions and millions and millions of people in this country.
Speaker:I despise the Prime Minister.
Speaker:I don't respect the Prime Minister at all.
Speaker:What are you planning to do next week when you arrive in Parliament?
Speaker:Well, I'm meeting the Speaker on Monday morning, and then
Speaker:I'll be introduced and sworn in.
Speaker:I'll be escorted by the Right Honourable David Davis MP.
Speaker:Former deputy leader of the Conservative Party.
Speaker:I don't know why he would do that if he thought I was the kind of man
Speaker:you're clearly implying that I am.
Speaker:David Davis is one of the great parliamentarians of today and this age.
Speaker:and I'll be taking my seat in the House of Commons and speaking
Speaker:for the people of Rochdale.
Speaker:That's what I was elected to do.
Speaker:And what is your message also to Keir Starmer?
Speaker:My message to Keir Starmer is that the skids are under you, in scores of
Speaker:Labour seats up and down the country.
Speaker:Because you've lost the trust, you've lost the confidence of millions of
Speaker:your traditional loyal supporters.
Speaker:Now, we have had, we have now had an election where two of the
Speaker:candidates have alleged intimidation.
Speaker:The Prime Minister referenced that intimidation in his address on
Speaker:the steps of the Prime Minister as if that's supposed to impress me.
Speaker:The Prime Minister is, the, the Prime Minister is a rather diminutive,
Speaker:diminished and degraded politician.
Speaker:He made a party political statement.
Speaker:I, I don't care about Rishi Sonak's attitude.
Speaker:What I care about is that the returning officer, a man of unimpeachable integrity,
Speaker:I'm sure you'll agree, declared it a free and fair election and me as the winner.
Speaker:And Rishi Sonak as one of the crushed two.
Speaker:Big parties in the state.
Speaker:So why are two candidates Are you going to keep repeating the same questions to me?
Speaker:Because I have other people to talk to.
Speaker:So let's make this the last one, shall we?
Speaker:We've got a party to deal with.
Speaker:Allegations of intimidation.
Speaker:Allegations that your supporters intimidated other candidates.
Speaker:Five times you've said that.
Speaker:The returning officer declared it last night.
Speaker:You were there as a free and fair election and me as the winner.
Speaker:And the Electoral Commission today have said that they're going to
Speaker:look and talk to the parties.
Speaker:You're going to have to just suck it up.
Speaker:I won the election.
Speaker:Yay!
Speaker:George Galloway, thank you very much indeed.
Speaker:Well, what did you think of his rhetorical style, Scott?
Speaker:Well, it was very forthright, wasn't it?
Speaker:And I also, I did like his final line there.
Speaker:He says, you're just going to have to suck it up.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, it's one of those things, like you said that, Keir Starmer's got the
Speaker:skids under him and all that sort of stuff in seats up and down the country.
Speaker:I don't know whether or not that's true, but clearly Britain's
Speaker:in a hell of a mess right now.
Speaker:Oh, I would imagine it must be a bit of a worry that this
Speaker:third party has won this seat.
Speaker:So Well, you know, it was only one seat, and it was only in a by election, so, you
Speaker:know, it's one of those things, they don't have a compulsory vote over there, they've
Speaker:got a number of people that would have stayed home and all that type of thing.
Speaker:I'm not sure that you could actually, you know, if it was a compulsory ballot like
Speaker:we have here, then you could actually link something to it, you think to
Speaker:yourself, Jesus Christ, these guys have come from nowhere, so they've actually
Speaker:come out and they've pinched it from us.
Speaker:One of those things, I don't know how it's going to turn
Speaker:out with the general election.
Speaker:When is the general election due?
Speaker:It's next year, isn't it, Joe?
Speaker:It's soon ish.
Speaker:Soon ish.
Speaker:This year or next year?
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:Not sure.
Speaker:Yeah, I thought it was a ways off yet, but, like next year, I thought.
Speaker:But, anyway, I just, it was sort of Keating esque in that he just was
Speaker:on the attack on the, on the, on the journalist, just wasn't taking shit and
Speaker:was saying, what you're really saying is this, and why, and your inference
Speaker:is this, and the reality is this, and without beating around the bush, he's
Speaker:a really direct answer to what you were saying, and you're an idiot for keep
Speaker:saying, for keep asking the question.
Speaker:I wish there was more of it.
Speaker:The answer is no later than 28th of Jan, 2025.
Speaker:There we go.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:So, in that interview, he refers to a, an interview that he had with
Speaker:a, yeah, what's the lady's name?
Speaker:Anna Botting.
Speaker:I've got a recording of that, I think on the audio version of this podcast.
Speaker:I'll tack it on to the end.
Speaker:If you like that.
Speaker:If you don't like it, just, quit the podcast.
Speaker:So when we say our farewells, I'm just going to throw that on at the end
Speaker:for people who are listening to the, to the audio version of this where
Speaker:he talks about Lebanon and Hezbollah and, and with this, tackles this
Speaker:journalist over her questioning on that.
Speaker:So one of his former wives was a Palestinian, for context.
Speaker:I think he's got, like, four former wives and, like, ten kids, and
Speaker:Two of them at least are Muslims.
Speaker:Yeah, and, you know, I think he's nearly 16.
Speaker:I think he's got, like, a five year old or something.
Speaker:His personal life, to me, sounds a shambles, but, hey, hey, it's not about
Speaker:his policies and about him himself.
Speaker:It's more about having the ability to think on your feet and to just not put
Speaker:up with shitty questions and deal with things directly that I found refreshing.
Speaker:And I know Keating was, criticized for his performance at the press club when
Speaker:he was talking about Orcus because of the way he just minced up a few journalists.
Speaker:But, honestly, I think it's just needs to be more of it.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:Alright, well that's enough of that.
Speaker:you'll get that other.
Speaker:Interview, I'll tag it on the end of the audio.
Speaker:Well, there you go dear listener, a bit of a longer episode to make
Speaker:up for not being around last week.
Speaker:So, hope you enjoyed it.
Speaker:we'll talk to you next week.
Speaker:Bye for now.
Speaker:And it's a good night from me.
Speaker:And it's a good night from him.
Speaker:Good night.
Speaker:Joining me now is a man not known for sitting on the fence.
Speaker:He passionately opposed the invasion of Iraq and now he feels that Hezbollah
Speaker:is justified in attacking Israel.
Speaker:The Respect MP for Beth Scott Green is in our central London
Speaker:studio, a very good evening, good morning rather to you Mr Galloway.
Speaker:How do you justify your support for Hezbollah and its leader
Speaker:Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah?
Speaker:A preposterous way to introduce an item and what a preposterous first question.
Speaker:Twenty four years ago On the day my daughter was born, and I've just
Speaker:celebrated her 24th birthday, I had to dash to the maternity hospital to see
Speaker:her given birth from a mass demonstration in London against the Israeli
Speaker:invasion and occupation of Lebanon.
Speaker:Israel has been invading and occupying Lebanon.
Speaker:All of my 24-year-old daughter's life, the Hezbollah are a part of the Lebanese
Speaker:national resistance who are trying to drive, having successfully driven most
Speaker:Israelis from their land in 2000 Israel from the rest of their land, and to
Speaker:get back those thousands of Lebanese prisoners who were kidnapped by Israel.
Speaker:Under the terms of their illegal occupation of Lebanon.
Speaker:It's Israel that's invading Lebanon.
Speaker:It's Israel that's attacking Lebanon.
Speaker:Not Lebanon that's attacking Israel.
Speaker:You've just been carrying a report.
Speaker:Of 10 Israeli soldiers on the border getting ready to invade Lebanon, and
Speaker:you ask us to mourn that operation as if it were some kind of war crime.
Speaker:Israel is invading Lebanon and has killed 30 times more Lebanese.
Speaker:You civilians on button though, didn't you?
Speaker:Than have died in Israel.
Speaker:So it's you who should be justifying the evident bias, which is written
Speaker:on every line on your face.
Speaker:And it's in every nuance of your voice, and it's loaded in
Speaker:every question that you ask.
Speaker:Right, the, you put your finger on the button though, didn't you?
Speaker:When you said that Hezbollah was set up back in the 1980s in order to remove
Speaker:every Israeli soldier from Lebanese soil.
Speaker:As you said It achieved that in 2000.
Speaker:No, it didn't.
Speaker:This is a setback.
Speaker:No, it didn't.
Speaker:It didn't.
Speaker:This is a key point that you're, you're concealing from your viewers.
Speaker:Israel was forced out of most of the south of Lebanon in 2000.
Speaker:It still occupies a part of Lebanon since 2000 and it has thousands
Speaker:of Lebanese, thousands of Lebanese prisoners have been kidnapped by Israel.
Speaker:Hezbollah and the Lebanese government want them to be released.
Speaker:News spokesman who said that the three.
Speaker:Lebanese who, have been, captured, perhaps you'd like to use that
Speaker:word, have been before a judge, and been to a court of law.
Speaker:Oh, please, have a slightly longer memory than four weeks.
Speaker:I'm talking about the thousands of prisoners taken during the
Speaker:18 years of Israeli occupation.
Speaker:Illegal occupation of South Lebanon.
Speaker:These are the prisoners that have to be released in exchange for the Israeli
Speaker:soldiers that were captured at the beginning of this wave of the crisis.
Speaker:Can I ask you about a report that's in, today's Sunday Telegraph which
Speaker:showed that Iran has given Hezbollah long range, missiles capable of
Speaker:targeting any part of Israel.
Speaker:Iran, according to this, Iranian MP who helped Found Hezbollah, has also
Speaker:said that he's, Iran has given the organization, organization, author,
Speaker:authorization, rather, to target Tel Aviv.
Speaker:Can you blame Israel for wanting to destroy those missiles?
Speaker:Look, this is preposterous.
Speaker:America has given Israel missiles that can target not just every city
Speaker:in Lebanon, but every city in the Arab and Muslim world, including Iran.
Speaker:Why should America be allowed to give long range missiles to Israel,
Speaker:including hundreds of nuclear missiles?
Speaker:But Iran is not a terrorist organization.
Speaker:But, but they're not a terrorist organization.
Speaker:Only in the mind of Rupert Murdoch's Sky, and the Times, and the
Speaker:Sun, and the News of the World.
Speaker:They're not a terrorist organization.
Speaker:It's Israel that is a terrorist state.
Speaker:Is another man's freedom fighter.
Speaker:We know that perfectly well.
Speaker:In most people's eyes, they are deemed to be They had a choice, didn't they?
Speaker:Let's understand this.
Speaker:They had a choice, like the IRA, to take on politics.
Speaker:I'm saying they had a choice to absorb the idea of politics.
Speaker:They've got two Hezbollah cabinet ministers.
Speaker:One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
Speaker:You are totally wrong in saying that in most people's eyes,
Speaker:Hezbollah are terrorists.
Speaker:In most people's eyes, Israel is a terrorist state.
Speaker:It's the fact that you cannot comprehend that fact that leads to
Speaker:the bias which runs through all of your reporting and every question that
Speaker:you've asked me in this interview.
Speaker:Can I ask you one question?
Speaker:I was relating to the IRA and Sinn Féin.
Speaker:They have decided to embrace politics.
Speaker:Hezbollah had the chance to embrace politics.
Speaker:They've already got two cabinet ministers, they're well respected in the South.
Speaker:That's what I'm saying.
Speaker:If you listen to me, I'm saying they've got two cabinet ministers already.
Speaker:They had a chance to do that.
Speaker:Why did they need to capture and kill Israeli soldiers on the border?
Speaker:Surely that sets back their ambitions to be a political force
Speaker:inside a democratic Lebanon.
Speaker:Look, because Israel occupies their country and holds thousands
Speaker:of their compatriots as kidnap hostages in their dungeons.
Speaker:It's really very Simple.
Speaker:Except, if you think, only in a clock that goes back four weeks.
Speaker:If you know, and you're old enough to know better, that this, origins
Speaker:of this conflict are not four weeks, or four years, or fourteen
Speaker:years, but are decades old.
Speaker:You want people to think that the crisis started when the clock
Speaker:started ticking on Sky News.
Speaker:No, I don't.
Speaker:I don't at all.
Speaker:I want to ask you one Yeah, I want to ask you one final question.
Speaker:Do you think that the, the four weeks that we've seen, as you mentioned,
Speaker:the 26 days of this crisis, has set back Hezbollah's ambition, ambitions?
Speaker:Not, not only are Israeli soldiers now over the border
Speaker:Let me finish, let me finish.
Speaker:Would you mind letting me finish, please?
Speaker:Not only are Israeli soldiers over the border in sizable numbers, but also,
Speaker:their claims to be a good political organization, to help a democratic
Speaker:Lebanese government with the Syrians who've also now left an independent state,
Speaker:that has also come to blows as well.
Speaker:What a silly question.
Speaker:What a silly person you are.
Speaker:Hezbollah is winning the war, you can see it on the other half of the screen.
Speaker:Hezbollah is more popular today.
Speaker:That was not my question.
Speaker:Hezbollah is more popular today.
Speaker:In Lebanon, amongst Christians, amongst Sunnis, amongst Shiites,
Speaker:amongst all Arabs, amongst all Muslims, than it has ever been.
Speaker:It's Israel who's lost the war, and Bush and Blair for politically organizing
Speaker:the war, who've lost politically.
Speaker:This is a defeat for Bush and Blair and Israel.
Speaker:Everybody but you can see it.
Speaker:Let me separate out that question then.
Speaker:Is it a setback, given that Hezbollah was set up in order to get Israeli
Speaker:soldiers off Lebanese soil, that there are now more Israeli soldiers on Lebanese
Speaker:soil than there were 26 days ago?
Speaker:Well, they seem to be getting a bloody good hiding on the other half
Speaker:of the screen that I'm watching.
Speaker:Maybe you can't see it, but I'm watching them getting a
Speaker:bloody good hiding in the war.
Speaker:So, if that's a success, I'm not sure what a failure would look like.
Speaker:The reality is That this conflict will go on.
Speaker:The United Nations Resolution solves nothing, gives Lebanon nothing, gives
Speaker:the prisoners in Israeli dungeons nothing, and as Ann Kluid, my erstwhile
Speaker:colleague, was just saying, Israel has just kidnapped even more Palestinian
Speaker:politicians, cabinet ministers, members of parliament, and thousands
Speaker:of others held in Israeli dungeons.
Speaker:And this war will continue until the overall settlement is reached.
Speaker:That settlement must mean Israeli withdrawal from all occupied
Speaker:territory that it currently holds since the war in 1967, the release
Speaker:of all political prisoners, and a state for the Palestinians, with
Speaker:East Jerusalem as its capital.
Speaker:No justice.
Speaker:No peace.
Speaker:You're not going out of business as a newscaster in Jerusalem anytime soon.
Speaker:Believe me.
Speaker:Well, as usual, you have prompted a huge email response,
Speaker:both for and against you, Mr.
Speaker:Galloway, so we'll leave it there.
Speaker:I have to say that some people might find it offensive when, more
Speaker:families are mourning their dead.
Speaker:You, to hear you say that it was, a political hideout,
Speaker:so You don't give a damn.
Speaker:You don't give a damn.
Speaker:You don't even know about the Palestinian families.
Speaker:You don't even know that they exist.
Speaker:Tell me the name.
Speaker:Of one member of the seven members of the same family, slaughtered on the
Speaker:beach in Gaza by an Israeli warship.
Speaker:You don't even know their name, but you know the name of every
Speaker:Israeli soldier who's been taken prisoner in this conflict.
Speaker:Because you believe, whether you know it or not, that Israeli
Speaker:blood is more valuable than the blood of Lebanese or Palestinians.
Speaker:That's the truth, and the discerning of your viewers already know it.
