Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

Another season in the books! Laura and Xhafer celebrate their 50th episode with a recap of Babylon 5 Season 2.

#B5onCWin23

Hello, and welcome to who are you?

A Babylon five watch cast.

Hosted by two friends.

Who've gotten to know each other over the last year.

Hey.

Uh, Well, we watching one of our favorite chefs in their childhood Babylon five

And I'm Laura.

And this is it.

One year we've been releasing episodes for a year.

It's episode 50.

And because we take a two week break in between the seasons,

this happens to be one year.

Yeah.

Completely unplanned.

Based off the number of episodes and other stuff we've done, but Hey, I'll take it.

Yeah, I'm excited.

It winds up.

Perfect.

Yeah, it's hard to believe.

It's a year of releasing episodes already.

And.

Uh, A year and a half, some of recording and getting to know

each other, but that's exciting.

Yeah.

It doesn't feel like it's been that long.

It doesn't but the pandemic has really made time, not matter at

all.

So.

That's very

I feel like.

Well, one.

Your, your bio, like biologically your experience of time.

Shortens as you get older, due to a hormone in your

brain, this is a real thing.

You can Google it.

This makes a lot of sense though.

The older you get the less of this hormone, that it changes

how you experience time, your brain produces, which means time

feels like it's progressing faster.

So that I just feel like has been exacerbated.

By the pandemic a hundred

Yeah, for sure.

Like maybe we're all our brains are operating.

Differently.

Although, apparently this is also a hormone that

eventually you'll be able to take.

I don't know that I want to make things feel longer.

Yeah.

Well, remember how car rides always sucked when you were a

kid and they don't seem that bad.

Now

I was just thinking about that.

The car rides and then like just everything is a kid felt.

Like it took a long time.

Yes, this is the reason.

yeah, like waiting for Christmas.

Remember that, or like waiting for your birthday.

Something like that.

Just waiting in general.

I feel like I don't have any time to wait.

Yeah, I don't, I don't know if I need that hormone replacement.

Maybe a little bit, I might take a little bit, like if you can get me

back to how time felt when I was like 17.

Here for it.

I don't want it when I was six, though.

That's too much.

Yeah.

Well, let's hope that this episode doesn't feel super long.

Oh, what a good segue.

But before we, well, we don't have an episode to talk about, we've got the

season recap to talk about, but we do have to rate last week's episode

because we totally forgot to do it.

We just went off the Forgot to rate

We sure

And I don't even have one in my notes.

I'm guessing you may or may not.

I don't know, but if we both didn't that totally explains why we just skipped over

Yeah, I didn't put her rating in my notes.

It's true.

I think that we both kind of got into talking about how

important and enjoyable it was.

Right.

So I think that kind of lends itself to one of our higher ratings, obviously.

Oh, a hundred percent.

They killed Kiefer.

So it's a five out of five for me.

You.

Bevel and five season ender, I think is usually a five out of five.

Like you get some good.

They pull out all the stops.

Yeah, you get the meat, you get a cliffhanger ending, which we've

certainly got with season one and you know, the death of the president.

And here we get with.

Warren Kiefer's footage.

you know, the shadow ship that he sought out and died for.

I don't know that there's a bad season finale in Babylon five,

which I know is a bit controversial because there's a lot of people

who don't like seasoned forest.

Which I won't talk about at all, because spoilers, if you happen to

be listening long but it is weird and different and there's a very specific

reason for that, that I will discuss when we get there in a year, something.

But.

I like that episode.

And the season five finale is fantastic.

The season three finale.

I actually don't remember anything about at this moment, but I'm

going to assume it's good.

And

if I'm

proven wrong in six months, We'll figure it out

That's where you leave them

wanting more.

Right.

Great

episode.

CNN five out of five.

for me.

All right.

Now the.

We've appeased the people who should we ever get enough listeners to warrant a

Wiki that they keep track of these things.

That's very optimistic.

It's it's unrealistically optimistic, but We have a lot of fun.

This is a anniversary.

Also, we just hit 10,000 listens.

I don't think I told you that yet, that happened a couple days ago.

Thank you 10,000.

Listeners.

Well, not

listens.

It's crazy.

There's probably one person sitting there just listening.

and

over

It's been.

Thanks, Ben.

We love your band.

All right.

So season two, recap.

We're going to follow pretty much the same format we did.

Last time we did this, we're going to talk about themes.

We have a couple of episode things we're going to talk about, and then

we'll get into the, who is the one where Laura and I will go back and

forth asking each other questions about our favorite aspects of the season.

Yeah.

It's a themes you want to start us off?

Do you got something in mind?

I have some theme ideas, you know, last, last season we were we

were laying a lot of groundwork, right.

And in season one, And in season two, we built a lot on that foundation.

And I think the things that we built.

Biggest upon.

On that foundation of themes for one the shadows, we learn

a lot more about the shadows.

Um, We saw a lot more about the reach.

Their capabilities.

We saw a lot more.

Actual shadows ships doing shattered ships stuff.

And then we really built up the Centauri and non-conflict in the season.

So we built the shadow involvement.

With Londo.

Mr.

Morton.

And we got a lot.

About.

The NARKN and just that.

What.

Capabilities they don't have compared to this Atari.

And, and their ability to stand against that shadow.

Involvement was none.

And then the other big one for me was the whole.

Xenophobia that we really established from earthers in season Well, we

expanded on some of that xenophobia and we also expanded on internal conflict.

You know, we had our main characters, our command staff

getting involved in this kind of.

Conspiracy against the conspiracy.

We know Whatever happened to president Santiago in season

one that, that assassination.

Was not.

An accident, you know, it wasn't actual assassination or main characters

start uncovering some of that.

And we see the things that president Clark is doing.

To change earth gov.

And.

Feeling our main characters rubbing against that.

What with the Nightwatch ministry of peace?

Some of these things that show up in big ways in certain episodes.

So those are the main themes that I feel like we really expanded on.

What about you, Jennifer?

Sacrifice was a huge thing.

This season.

And it's related to a lot of that.

It is.

The cost of victory.

Yeah.

Is really what we hear a lot of, kind of foreshadowing about this season.

Knowing that difficult times are ahead and it feels like difficult times are here.

And they are in a lot of ways.

And for all of the like, foreshadowing to be all like,

oh, this hasn't even started yet.

Is I on purpose?

Terrifying.

It's supposed to be, it's supposed to be like how much worse could it get?

And for the answer.

From any kind of foreshadow, we figure that we get the season to be, oh,

you had hit, you don't even know.

How bad it's going to be.

So knowing that.

One of the big themes relates to a lot of that But I have

one that I kind of picked out.

And I haven't really heard anyone say this about Babylon five yet.

I have not listened to any of our friendly podcasts that we're

friends with because I don't want them to color my opinion of things.

And I D I know that I will end up subconsciously cribbing something.

So if this is in one of those, please tell me, because I want to hear

someone else's thoughts on this.

But I think one of the big things is the unreliable narrator.

And I mean that in a couple of ways, I mean, it in kind of the direct way.

Like how we see in, and now for

Yeah, it's very obvious in that episode.

Isn't it?

Yes.

And I think the importance of that episode.

Is the framework that lends it to other things.

Because so much of the season.

Is about those empower, lying to the people they are in power over.

And we see it.

All over the place.

We get it early in the season with general Franklin lying to

his troops about the invasion.

They're about to commit.

Yeah.

We see it.

The, the lying and the denial of the issue in mark Hab society,

leading to their extinction,

being the overall cost.

And I think the importance of that episode in the overall framing is

showing exactly where this path goes.

Because we get so much of it with the ministry of peace and Nightwatch, and

not being able to trust these people.

And then also the Lawns.

We get a ton of it this season where it's just like, these are the

people that are supposed to lead us.

In the great conflict to come.

There are elder race.

There are shepherd.

But also surprise.

They've been fucking with your society for thousands of years because they're angels.

Yeah.

And also they came to earth in the 18 hundreds and the one dude

they picked was Jack the ripper.

Right.

Who the fuck are they actually.

Right.

Yeah.

are unreliable, everyone in power in every source we see

in this season is unreliable.

And if they were reliable, they die, like the Centauri emperor.

Yes.

Rest in peace.

Like president Santiago.

Like they all get killed and all of these unreliable people.

Who find themselves in power at the same time.

And it all coalesces at once this season.

I hate to say it, but you know what?

This sounds like.

It reminds me of it's very game of Thrones.

Yeah, well, no, that's, that's a hundred percent fair comparison to.

The good guys D you can't get too attached.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Everyone who is good has died.

Not will, not entirely, but everyone who was good, who was in a position to stop

the things that are coming, even Sinclair.

Like, obviously we know that that change was not made for plot reasons.

But that doesn't mean you can't go back and make that a plot

Which totally happens this season.

Cause we'll talk about it.

When we get to the some stuff but there's all kinds of things that Sinclair

would have handled very differently.

Yeah, for sure.

And then it's just, it's all there.

It's all pointing towards this one thing.

And I like, I don't know of a better term for it than unreliable narrator.

I did not study story structure.

There might be like an official

There might yeah, there might be a better term for it.

I'm sure there is.

And I'm sure I will get a message from Ben's wife who is a English teacher.

She's like the thing you're looking for is

The term you wanted was this.

And I'm a, like, thank you.

Is what's going to happen.

But it's, it's all over the place this season, and that's so important.

For what's coming.

For like season four, like the mid point of season four.

It's so important.

Yeah, just put a pin in that.

Just

Exactly.

keep it handy, guys.

Yeah, just keep it in the back of your mind.

Okay.

So we have some of viewer responses about season two that we're going to

read, and then we'll talk about our favorite and least favorite episodes.

So speaking of number one, fan ban, he did send us a response.

I feel like we're doing the podcast at you right now, Ben.

Other listeners.

I want you to know we value every single one of you.

Research do.

A lot of you, we haven't met in person though.

I don't have a standing hangout with many of you at my

house on Wednesday to come watch wrestling and record another podcast.

So.

If we had that.

Possibilities.

Always there.

It's always there.

Anyways, Ben sent us a lovely letter.

Hello to the Londo and checar of Babylon five podcasting.

I don't know how to take that.

For you a compliment for me and insult.

the source.

Okay.

Moving

Here's someone who started BFI with a little bit of four knowledge

due to being friends with Pharisees too, was an interesting transition.

That was the start of the season, losing commander, Sinclair, who I

had found myself really liking in season one and found myself really

jarred when Sheridan arrived.

I'll be honest.

It took me most of the season to warm up to him, which started with some of

the established, the show gets good.

When Sheridan shows up narrative, I had heard before starting.

Um, I slow warming up to him aside season two has some

absolutely amazing storytelling.

We get a really long downfall of Londo as we watch him make mistake after

mistake and unlike other villainous characters, we get to watch him get

told he's making mistakes and he knows.

You also get to watch checar in the NAR and suffer the

side effects of losing a war.

Completely unable to admit their incoming defeat and avoid the ramifications.

We get the much mocked though.

I enjoyed it.

Lieutenant Keefer, storyline peppered throughout the season.

Which I really think is the best of what B five does a story that could

have filled a three episode arc instead gets spread throughout the

entirety of a season of television.

We get several of the best episodes of the show during the season.

And I, it was really great going through it with the pod.

Thank you for the great episodes and onward to season three, signed

the president Clark of podcast fans.

I'm not sure how to take I can take, we need to start worrying about

Ben meddling in our podcast affairs.

Uh,

president Clark.

fair.

Okay.

Uh, I got some feedback on the discord as well.

Yeah.

Do you share.

Shellac a friend of the podcast.

Sent in.

I hope this is not too late.

I totally see why JMS resented and did not use Kiefer.

But I imagine a world where he embarrassed a squad leader to not

always have Garibaldi Sinclair Ivanova or shared and lead the star theories.

And there was some good story left on the table.

Otherwise, I'm really enjoying the pod and the perspective.

It's scary how relevant some of the plot lines are today and even more so given

when they aired, be it pandemics or radical parties taking over the world.

Also seasoned break movie, that is a wacky Star wrecked.

Also excited for season three theme, best theme ever.

I agree.

I can't wait.

Symbolic.

Foreline also sent us some feedback.

Season two has my go-to episode of If I'm only going to watch one episode.

The poorly named there all the honor lies.

Has a plot I enjoy.

And some of my favorite comedy bits.

Season two strikes me as the season of failure, cautious, forced to reveal

himself before he wants to share it and keeps hoping that finding proof

that Clark had Santiago killed will somehow stop the fascist takeover

Zach joins.

Nightwatch no one figures out how to save the Picari.

Everything about Talia, even the successes or failures Lando gets to

bomb the Narins back to the stone age, but he's more horrified than happy.

The biggest step forward in the shadow war is key for getting himself

killed and his recording picked up by ISN revealing the shadow ships.

Something Dylan was quite insistent would be a bad thing.

It's not my favorite season, but it was a lot of my favorite bits,

even though the acting is better.

I still miss Sinclair.

Uh, Sheraton may be a soldier, but Sinclair has seemed

to have a lot more wisdom.

Why hasn't avant of acquit yet?

She's like the Rodney Dangerfield and Jabber jaws of the shark.

She gets no respect.

For real.

Great thoughts.

Great thoughts.

Okay.

So I did ask our editor to throw in some thoughts.

Because he's always behind the scenes and doesn't get to

comments except through drops.

On our, on our episodes or on the show.

And his thoughts.

Where the Andrea's should have won an Emmy.

For season two.

Yeah, he does.

Amazing.

Yeah, he does an amazing job of.

For training, the elder statesman.

He's led his people through one.

Revolutions last resistance.

And now he's going to have to do it again.

And that coming of shadows was an amazing piece of writing that works very well.

Even if you haven't seen the rest of the show.

And I think we talked about that on that episode.

That you could kind of drop in.

And everything that goes down in that episode is very compelling

and makes you want to know more.

All right.

Well, thanks everyone for the feedback as always, we appreciate if you have

anything else you want to say, go ahead and throw it over to us at who are you?

b5@gmail.com.

And we'll do a mailbag segment a couple of weeks into season three.

Yeah.

But for now, let's talk about.

Some episodes,

Yeah.

Do you have a favorite episode this season?

You want to talk about.

I do think I have a favorite episode this season, but

first I want to give some like runner up acknowledgements to.

Some that Special place in my heart.

So my runners up for favorite episode would kind of be two episodes that

they took something that was a story device that was really popular.

At the time of the doll, this was written.

And they made it into a battle on five stories.

So we've got grow posts.

You know, the war story it's told in a certain kind of way.

That was really special to me and very memorable.

And then, and now for a word took that whole Dateline.

2020 kind of news show that was just all over in the nineties.

And my parents watched all of And made it into a Babylon five story.

And I thought those were really special.

Moments of season two, that I liked a lot, very memorable.

But they just, couldn't quite get to favorite episode for me, but I wanted to

give them some for me, my one favorite episode would be coming of shadows.

Yeah.

I think that that was an award winner for reasons.

Obvious reasons.

So much happened.

That was so important for Really drove that story forward.

A hundred percent.

What about you defer?

I will also throw a shout out too.

And now for a word it's a fantastic episode.

And just so good.

It's so well done.

But I think my favorite episode of the season is geometry of shadows.

okay.

Do you tell.

So that's the early season one with the techno MEJ.

Oh, yes.

Yes.

Yes.

And it's just, it's so good.

It's got so much good veer in it, but it also has and we'll get to when we

do our, who is the ones, but it's got my favorite quote from the season.

Oh, fantastic.

And just the character of Alrich and the idea of techno majors in general

is something so interesting to me.

I

just, it's always been, you do.

And you

don't get a

Yeah.

Even in crusade where a techno major is like one of

the main characters of the show.

So they didn't all go away, I guess.

Or they came back.

I haven't seen crusade.

I think we've been over that.

So.

Okay.

All right.

Well, what was your least favorite episode?

This season?

My least favorite episode and.

There was so much good this season.

It's almost hard to pick a least favorite episode, but

mine would be.

Yeah.

I started looking over the list and it popped out to me

right away, the long dark.

Not a good look for Franklin throughout the whole episode.

For sure.

Yeah.

Just.

Just really bad.

Saifai doctor tropes.

And the, from the nineties and.

I think that maybe they're the crux of the plot, which is, you know, that we've

got this ship that was out here for a long time and, and somebody wakes up on it.

It's a good idea.

It's a good story plot, but the execution with the doctor, so really flat for me.

So that would be my least favorite episode of the

Well, I'm gonna honorable mention CRO posts here.

Okay.

Um, I know you just honorable mentioned it for favor.

I did have a lot of feelings on grow posts.

And I will say it is very good at making me feel bad.

But that's not why I don't want I just.

I didn't have fun watching that episode.

I didn't feel entertained.

I just got stressed.

Yeah.

But that's not my actual, my, my actual pick is spider in the web, I

think is probably the worst episode of the

Okay, you're going to have to remind me of that one.

Oh, remember the one where they send someone to kill Talia.

Uh, Right.

though she's a sleeper agent for

Yeah.

the same organization.

Yeah, that is a weird thing to introduce.

Yep.

And it doesn't really come back ever either.

I think those two are right in a row to the long darkest spider in the web.

They're very close to one another.

Yeah, I think they're there in that like 7, 8, 9 stretch of the

season without having it in front of me.

Yeah, no, that, that does just kind of serve to like

confuse the whole Sycor plots.

It doesn't.

It doesn't make anything clearer.

Yeah.

All right.

So we did this one last time too, is the underdog episode.

So having seen the series before we both have fond memories of certain episodes

and we have some not so fond memories of certain episodes, what is an episode

that you were dreading going into, but ended up really enjoying when you watched

This might sound kind of surprising.

Especially.

Given, like all we've.

Gone through in the past couple of years with an actual global pandemic.

I was really dreading confessions and Lamentations.

Yeah.

I remember being a child and it making me cry and, and

as an adult, it did make me cry.

Aye.

was surprised by.

It's precious.

It's relevance.

I wouldn't have.

You know if we'd watch this at any other time.

I still would've considered a good episode, but I don't think I would

have been as surprised by it as I was.

So for me, it was an underdog.

I was dreading it because I remembered what this is about

and what happens to everyone.

And it still made me sad.

It did.

But.

I thought it was so strong, even if some of the science was a little.

Wishy washy now that we're all a little more exposed.

To term science.

Virus science,

Yeah.

It really surprised me.

I thought I was going to hate every second of it and I did

So, what about you?

What's your underdog?

My underdog episode, the season is comes the inquisitor.

Okay.

So I really liked it on this rewatch.

And on my last rewatch, I wasn't, as I've admitted a number of times, I was

not really paying super close attention to the I was just kind of burning my way

through it, streaming it to just watch it.

And I thought on that rewatch.

That.

Oh God.

Uh, You know, Jack, the ripper, this is hokey.

It's kind of weird torture porny at times.

And it just didn't vibe with me at all.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And on the rewatch and pilling paying a lot closer attention.

You know, it's about Dylan and what she is willing to sacrifice.

You know, it's about building that real strength between her and Sheridan.

It's about.

Making you question who the are and what they're actually what

their actual intentions are.

And the Jack the ripper bit.

Is kind of just like, it's what I remembered going in and I forgot that.

We get like one half-assed like, all they remember is Jack is

the only thing they're saying.

It's the last line of the episode.

So it wasn't even like they were beating you up with it the entire time.

Uh, Huh.

And.

I was really surprised by that.

And I really enjoyed it on this rewatch.

Okay.

I'll accept that.

All right.

Well, now we get to go to our buddy Zathura's or, was it Zathura's?

Or

I don't know.

It might've been satirists.

Yeah.

Uh, Yeah, I think he got

And ask.

Who is the one?

All right.

So first up, Laura.

Who is the one character that best represents this season?

In some ways.

This is the hardest question I think, because there's so much.

That you could pick For me, the one character that best represents

this season would be I think Londo.

Because he drives so much of the plot with his actions.

And this man, we watch him over and over.

In the episodes where he is faced with some sort of.

Ethical dilemma or a big choice.

He's reminded by his subordinate vere.

Several times.

You don't have to do this.

You don't have to make this choice, he's driven by this.

Crazy sense of history.

And pride.

You might even call it patriarchy.

That.

We have to return to this glory.

We have to do these things.

And he doesn't.

See his own personal power in the situation that he could

walk away from certain things.

Yes.

And even when he's told explicitly.

Because perhaps, because this person is underneath him.

Doesn't have the same societal power does not listen to them.

Does not.

C.

You know, he thinks this person couldn't possibly understand, perhaps

because they're in different position.

And he just.

Over and over again, chooses.

Poorly.

It makes some really monstrous choices.

With his power.

He's probably the, you know, you talked about In this season, there was a lot

of you can't trust the people in power.

And he's the one we've gotten closest to.

Right.

We, we liked Wando in season one.

We saw him chumming it up with gear Baldy.

We saw him, you know, being kind of a lovable scamp who.

Was on the downswing and, and on the downside of his career.

And.

Drinking and coasting.

And we've, we fell in love with his antics.

And now he's becoming a monster.

Yeah.

So for me, he is the one character that represents this season.

A hundred percent.

So tell me Joe fair who has the one best quote from the season?

Alrich the techno major and it's actually very closely related to what

you were just talking about with Alondo.

Okay.

It is their interaction in space TSA when he's on his way out.

Where he tells the one who's been touched by in darkness.

I see it as a blemish that will grow in time.

I could warn you, but you would not listen.

I could kill you, but someone else will take your place.

So I do the only thing I can I go.

You know, and Vinny's just like Oh, I believe you went as an endorsement.

You wanted a word or two, a picture to send to the folks back home, confirming

that you had a destiny before you.

And Linda says, yes, it was just a thought, nothing more in our

act says, we'll take this for what little it will profit you.

As I look at you, ambassador Mallari, I see a great hand

reaching out of the stars.

The hand is your hand.

And I hear the sounds, the sounds of billions of people calling your name.

And Londo goes my followers and he's responds victims.

Man, we did not talk about these two things, but

those dovetailed really well.

Yes.

Man.

a episode two or three of season two.

Yeah, it's at the very beginning.

And just keeps going.

Yup.

Very foreshadowing.

All right, Laura, who is the one best guest star this season?

Okay.

So this season did have a few memorable ones.

I feel like they're front loaded at the season.

Yeah.

For instance in geometry of shadows, the techno major is a fantastic guest star.

For me, one best guest star.

I'll pick Paul Winfield, who was general Franklin.

Uh, he's a very memorable guy and he puts so much.

Into the Franklin character.

And I'm talking about Dr.

Franklin here.

Like we really get to understand and learn a lot about Dr.

Franklin through his father.

Yes.

And through their interactions.

And I always love a good, complicated dat relationship to look at in media.

And they definitely have a complicated one.

With.

Being.

A military family and not just a military family that's comes with

all kinds of layers in itself.

Right.

But he is.

The general he's one of the famous generals.

He's one of the big guys, the big wigs.

Yeah.

And that is a very complicated relationship to have, especially when

your son chooses to go into a career of.

Saving all life.

And.

You have spent your life fighting.

Life.

So other types of life.

Very interesting.

What about you?

Who is your one best guest star?

Got to give a shout out to Dwight Uh, acting his ass off in the long dark.

I agree.

It's not a particularly good episode.

Franklin's behavior and it is completely just unbearable.

But the scenes we get with Amis.

uh, Miss whatever.

It's spelled.

Uh, Miss, but it's pronounced something is.

Was it.

M M S It's all great.

Dwight Schultz is just loving the moment living in it, just

screaming his brains out, having a

Yeah, Yeah, he is.

I mean, he's a frequent flyer in star Trek, right.

And he plays such unique characters.

He is.

Probably like the biggest guest star get of the For me.

All right, Laura, who is the best one-off character.

My favorite one off that we see it once in this season.

And I don't remember if she comes back.

And it doesn't really matter because she was so memorable

and important is team off.

And that the soulmates episode where we see Wanda's three wives.

Oh, very distinct ladies.

All very interesting in their own way.

But Timor has the most spunk and fire.

And even the venom.

You know, she is a feisty little lady.

And I love everything about her.

She was my favorite one I've character.

I would love if she comes back later.

I just don't remember if she does.

I feel like maybe once we get to the Centauri home

worlds would be a great time.

Just don't remember if that happens But she's, she's amazing.

I love that.

spirit within her.

Yeah.

What is your one best bit in the season?

We like to highlight that this is a very funny show.

But lots of funny moments.

Yes.

All of the green and purple drowsy stuff.

Um, Is hilarious, especially with Ivanova just becoming green

leader and making everyone on the green team become purple team.

You're all gonna like smashing.

Right.

It's such such a good moment and such a fun solution to that problem.

Yeah, that is a great episode for her.

I don't even remember.

The other parts of that episode.

I, I loved her, you know?

And the way they work in the fact that she did have a broken foot or a broken leg.

I can't remember.

She's on crutches.

She's doing this awful job.

And she wraps it up really well.

Yeah.

a great bit.

All right.

Well, I'll turn that back over to you.

Or what is your favorite bit?

What is the one best bit?

This season?

I really enjoy the merge bit because it really was very self-aware

about scifi communities and what we do with our favorite franchises.

And.

And we, we went to everything to be licensed and we want a bunch

of Birch and I'm absolutely there.

I want all the dolls.

I've got four of the action figures up behind me on the wall right

Yep.

I think that after this episode, there's this.

So much of the community that wanted that Teddy bear.

Bearable on five, all about it.

We all want the models.

We all want the ships.

Give me

That merge.

Yeah.

I mean, we've even brought the merge into the show.

Like that's how important it is to us as human beings.

Like I.

I love that the show was self-aware with What is for you?

The one best.

Actor living it up moment.

What is your, your favorite scene?

It goes back to your one-off.

I'm going to give it to T Mav.

Mov Specifically.

There is a scene.

Aware in MetaLab after she donates the blood.

Where she is

just so done with everything.

And it's so good.

And just a Jane Carr.

Just living it up.

Also, you know, she was a friend of Peter drastic.

They've done a, another show before this together.

So.

Uh, just seeing them go back and forth and she was just

loving The whole time clearly.

It was great.

Yeah, she was fantastic.

And that moment was great.

How about you?

What is your best actor?

Living it up moment?

I guess that we just really liked the feisty lady moments on the

show because my, my uh, best actor limited at moment is when Talia.

Loses her mind.

After The other personality is revealed.

Is it the control personality?

I forget with all that convoluted psycho stuff, but.

When she's just screaming at everyone she's being restrained.

We get her like sexy hair that indicates she's now evil.

And she's just so.

and spicy and.

I think that Andrea Thompson had a lot of fun with that.

I think that she really got to just let her, let it all out.

And knowing that this was her character leaving.

I got an interesting one for you to fair.

Yeah.

Cause we.

Certainly.

Critiqued Mr.

It is homeschool security style.

We've thrown some shade.

deserved.

Yes.

So what is the one moment that you wished anybody, but Garibaldi

was in charge of security?

It happens kind of early in the season, but ahead of state

is assassinated on Babylon five.

Hm.

You know, it's kind of iffy.

If the Suntory emperor, if emperor Turin dies of old age or not.

But for him to pass at the exact same moment, the prime

minister is assassinated.

Yeah,

that's the specialist.

quite incidence.

And the prime minister die.

You know, it's like at the, literally the exact same moment that was

meditated, he was poisoned or something.

Reflux totally killed And for that to happen.

Seven or eight episodes after you just let.

The earth president get bombed after passing through.

Like not a good track record, Mr.

Garibaldi.

With visiting heads of state.

So I'd like to see anyone else in charge because they don't even acknowledge it.

It's like nothing happened.

When the Centauri emperor dies, they're just sad.

It's like.

Come the fuck on.

Yeah.

They're like, well, he was old.

Well, Old people can still get To say.

All right.

Well, let's give a shout out to the podcasting Guild.

And there were a review of Babylon five.

They just started season two.

And the referring to Sheraton is captain stepdad.

So in honor of that, I'm going to ask you, Laura, what's your best?

One best stepdad, Sheridan moment.

Yeah, cause last uh, recap, if you skipped that or don't remember,

we had our best Sinclair dad moment.

Because he was our dad.

Right.

And now we've got stepdad in charge.

I think the most quintessential stepdad moment or like stereotypical stepdad

thing that one could do is come in and say, this thing that you been

doing, you have to stop doing that.

You can't do this hobby anymore.

I will not allow it.

And captain Sheridan goes after Warren Kiefer's.

Little expeditions out in the hyperspace, looking for his ghost

and doesn't give him any explanation.

Just says, you will not do that anymore.

And we all know because we are viewers and we know The

reasons behind Sheridan's logic.

But poor kefir doesn't know.

And that was just a very mean stepdad thing to do say you

can't do your hobby anymore.

And so I thought that was a very.

Like it dovetailed nicely with the idea of Sheridan as our stepdad.

All right.

So did you fare.

What is the one best moment?

In this episode where you got goosebumps.

Goosebumps.

I would have to say when we see Llanos reflection over NARKN as

they're using the gravity drivers.

Uh, I literally paused to look down and had goosebumps at that moment.

Oh,

Yeah.

It's just like seeing the weight of everything hit him at once.

The regret.

In that face and in that reflection,

The fear.

Yeah.

The.

Understanding that you've totally.

Stepped out of your, beyond your league.

Yeah.

Well, how about you?

Did you have a moment where you got a goose or a chicken bumps,

depending on what part of the world

I do believe my moment is in the same episode.

Oh, that's very heavy episode, you know, coming of shadows gets

a lot of love, but this one also.

Is a big deal.

This is the long Twilight struggle, right?

It comes later.

And it's Dzhokhar's speech.

When

he is being.

Told the Centauri is demands.

And that he is no longer an ambassador.

He is merely a citizen and he basically can't leave Babylon five.

Because he had requested sanctuary there and Sheridan is granting

And it's when he says no dictator, no invader can hold an in prison

population by force of arms forever.

There is no greater power in the universe than the need for Against that power

tyrants and dictators cannot stand.

Listen, Tara, you learned that lesson once.

We will teach them again.

Although it takes a thousand years, we will be free.

And we've seen that quote a lot.

Just even in this last year,

With the situation going on and in Russia and Ukraine.

It almost immediately started popping up and it's just such a universal.

A idea.

And it really, it really got to me.

Yeah, understandably.

So.

Lighten it back up a little, who is the one, be plot, character,

you know, somebody who we see just very little of and kind of a side.

On the episode who should have gotten more screen time.

I'm going to throw this out to Gwen of year, Corey.

Sheridan's lawyer.

From the episode where he was uh, going to be prosecuted.

Of course Julie Katelyn brown, who played In season one.

Every scene she's in, she's very commanding.

And it's great, but she comes in like two thirds into the way of

the episode and is made irrelevant.

quickly.

As the plot starts to wrap itself up, like he just doesn't need a lawyer because

this is all getting taken care of off

And I would just really would've loved for her to have been there, like obediently.

Like she was a lawyer on the station or got dispatched significantly earlier.

Just to get some more screen time with her because she was a fucking delight.

Yeah.

I mean, there's broom on the show for a lawyer character somewhere, right?

Like.

We have about five is a big fucking deal.

It needs a lawyer.

They tried making a judge in season one.

Right.

I remember.

But then they kill them.

Ombuds Wellington.

Right.

We killed him.

No.

Well,

It was nice to know.

There was an idea of a legal system in this universe.

All right, Laura, who is the one character who showed

the most growth the season?

I mean.

We could take this all the way back to the first question and argue for a Mondo.

Its growth is not always a good thing, right?

You can grow in a bad direction, but.

I'm going to take it in a better place.

And I think.

The most growth in the season is Jakarta.

Okay.

Because we see him go through a lot and we see Andrea's really acted up.

Over various episodes.

We see him being really humbled.

We see him having to fight for his.

Right to leadership.

We see his, we see his leadership question quite a bit by his own.

Felon aren't on the station.

It seems like.

And.

We see him go through a big transformation.

I think.

Was it the last episode that we talked about this, it was very

recent that we felt, we both felt like Dzhokhar had really turned.

In the season from that kind of comical, snidely whiplash kind of villain in.

You know, the very first of season one.

And he's really become an underdog that we really want to root for.

Oh, and it was his, it was his moment with Garibaldi where he had the turn

Yeah.

Yeah.

When he didn't disappoint Garibaldi.

Yeah.

So for me, The character showing the most growth is to Carr.

Who is the one character showing the most growth for you, Jennifer?

Well, I think you've got the correct answer for the overall season.

But in the interest of talking about something else, Sheridan

really comes into Over the course of the season and not just in a.

As he feels like the captain of the station.

But also he grows significantly.

You know, he comes in and he's kind of this like hot shot military guy.

Who's kind of a conspiracy nut.

And he has an existing relationship with but he doesn't really

have of else with anyone.

You know, he steps up.

not the aliens.

Yeah.

he saves gear baldies life.

Yeah, well, that's actually a super good point too.

He has kind of an existing relationship with some of the

league of non-aligned worlds.

Uh, From his days on the Agamemnon, the men Bari hate him.

Yeah, he has a bad reputation there for sure.

And so for his growth and also just like his growth personally, with

learning to trust them in Bari and become friends with them in And really

putting himself out there and doing that stuff and becoming more cultured.

And becoming more of a citizen of the station, then a visiting military captain.

Yeah.

For sure.

All right.

Last question.

What is the one moment we wished Sinclair was still here for.

This is maybe an odd choice, but I really wish.

We could see how comes the inquisitor would have gone with Sinclair.

Because Sinclair and shared and have very different vibes, right?

Sheridan's a little bit more confrontational.

Little bit.

More aggressive almost.

You know, you mentioned before that Sinclair had a real wisdom feel about him.

So I.

It'd be curious to see how he would have handled that Jack the ripper.

Yeah.

You know, Sheridan kind of comes in guns, ablazing to rescue Dillin.

How would Sinclair do that?

I just

very curious.

He probably would have been there the whole time.

Yeah, he would have been there in Dylan's place.

He would be the one being inquisitive.

I think so.

I think that would be the one that costs.

Is more interested in compared to

Dylan.

that's a good point.

You could play it as dilemmas.

The more trusted one in, in cautious coming to examine.

St Claire instead.

Yeah.

Okay.

Cause Sheridan.

So new he's kinda.

It's it's.

He's not out of the picture because he's doing those sessions with Kosh.

But that's something that Sinclair didn't have.

And so I feel like he would be more interested in testing

Sinclair than Sheridan.

For sure.

Yeah, good point.

that's it for season two.

a journey.

It's a great season.

I think.

It's one of my favorites.

I mean, they're all my favorites except for I really

enjoyed season one going back.

I liked it a lot more than I initially

Uh, Season two.

I can say the same thing for, and I liked season two.

Yeah, I've always liked season two.

I really enjoyed watching it with a little more critical eye of.

Some of our main characters.

You know I remember feeling as a child just complete and total trust.

In the system and Sheridan's actions and gear ball, these actions.

And.

You know, we've had a lot of.

Examination as a culture in the last 20 years.

Of power.

And systems.

And it's been interesting to look and see like, oh wait, you know, all these

things that were coded as, oh, Sheridan's, bad-ass Skirball, these bad-ass and this

looking and being like, actually, no.

Sometimes.

Sometimes being about us is not.

Good are going to work out and.

Really reexamining that.

Was interesting.

And, you know, I did kind of.

I realized that my, my original assumption of it gets good when Sheridan shows up.

No.

It was, it was good before Sheridan showed up.

And then you kind of got to push back on him a little bit as a

character, and re-examine some of his actions and words and choices.

Yeah, no, I'm right there with you.

You know, season two.

Lots of changes, but lots of build for what's coming.

And we got season three, the point of no return right around the corner.

Yeah, best theme.

Yeah.

Best team.

Before we get to that, we're going to do book club next week, and then

we're going to take two weeks off.

And yeah, then we'll be back with season three.

I'm so excited.

I just, I do remember season three as being the action.

And

where it's all at.

Into season four as well, but.

I'm I'm ready.

Let's let's get into the action.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, thank you to Jeremy Siegel for a lovely theme song, you can find

more of his music at Jeremy Siegel.

40 two.bandcamp.com.

And thank you to angry duck time machine on Instagram

for our podcast artwork.

And go ahead and throw us in email.

Who are you At gmail.com.

Join our discord.

And, uh, we'll see you next week, internet.

Yeah, thanks for being here.

I appreciate you all.