Sasha Mereu has lived more lives than most artists dream of. Broadway performer, magician, visual artist, and guitarist for the punk band United Defiance. From working FedEx night shifts to conjuring illusions on stage. Sasha’s story is about the balance between creative drive, and real-world grind.

We get into everything: the collapse of ticket prices and concert culture. The difference between East Coast honesty and West Coast polish. Why art feels more alive when it’s imperfect? Sasha and I dive deep on AI, authenticity, capitalism. Possibly why live music might be the last true rebellion left. It’s a conversation about sound, struggle, and staying human. When everything’s becoming automated.

Where to Find Sasha Mereu?

🌐 Website: https://nightmaresandnonsense.bigcartel.com/products

📚 Work: 🎩 Fairview — a new platform connecting musicians and fans directly.

📲 Social: @sasha_mereu

Dave: wow.

Sasha Mereu: And uh

Dave: That's insane.

Sasha Mereu: with that Yeah it was super cool I mean I so granted I did not get the the pedestrian regular New York experience of living like in a closet with four other people and doing the stuff like I had a nice apartment on like just on the edge of Hell's Kitchen And you know I was there for uh two two months or something like that It was amazing

Dave: You were living the, uh, the Joey Tribiani life except actually being successful.

Sasha Mereu: definitely that Right on Well thanks for having me man I I appreciate it This is gonna be a cool conversation

Let's be real. Life can be a fucking pain in the ass sometimes, like even when you're successful, even when you've got everything together, like it's always throwing you those fucking curve balls.

Sasha Mereu: Oh yeah

Dave: Always doesn't just end.

Sasha Mereu: a hundred percent dude

Dave: How did, how did, how did that work out for you? Like have you run into that or not really?

Dave: The handlebars. Yeah.

Dave: I think it's really bizarre because there is this attitude and idea in this country of the American dream,

Sasha Mereu: Mm-hmm And

And again, there are many people that do this very successfully where, you know, they make that YouTube video like, oh, I'm doing this full time, I'm now on board. I don't know what to. I feel the same way as watching a television show, like Family Guy. When I see those videos 'cause. It's completely unrealistic.

Like you said, it's a lot of the times, it's like being able to have a balance. It's something I've done on this podcast and having a lot of people on is we notice a pattern, which is that a lot of the times to endeavor your creative life or to figure out your passion. Sometimes you have to be able to balance it out.

Sasha Mereu: That was a very big difference in between that that I noticed in between East Coast and West Coast because in la especially if you've lived there you understand everybody's fake In LA everyone is always working on stuff and like if you want to if you meet someone at a party I I was watching some

Dave: I know which, yeah. Yeah.

Dave: Yeah. And, and the, the thing also to touch on, right, is a lot of the times where you're trying to balance out, you know, life and passion and creativity. You know, for example, my case would be being in vocational school or sometimes having that nine to five or whatever have you. And then having those times where then you just have two or three days, maybe even one in some cases, and that's all the time you got.

Sasha Mereu: It's a lot man It is a tall order and uh I can tell you that you know I've I've got two kids two teenagers um

Dave: God bless you, Jesus.

Sasha Mereu: You know what They're amazing Wonderful caring Uh uh Brilliant human beings and I love spending time with both of them I I have not that that teenage experience that most of my other friends have just been like I don't know what to do and we don't talk We hate each other and they're horrible and I don't understand anything of their life Like that's that's not me So I one have gotten very lucky And two I have worked my ass off over the course of the last 14 to 18 years in fostering that kind of a relationship

Dave: I think, I think what also has to do with, and again, I'm not giving any discredit to parents. I, I'm not really a parent. I just have a cat. If you consider that being a pet parent,

Sasha Mereu: Of course

Sasha Mereu: have an opinion about about kids when not having kids That's fine That's uh

Dave: but I think. I think it's really interesting, right? Where in your instance, and I've noticed this especially with some artist, where they'll raise kids and they'll have completely different experiences than other parents.

Sasha Mereu: mm-hmm

Dave: And I think a lot of the times why that is, is because you have kids that are raised around a very open and loving environment and they're around already, like freakiness and weirdness as it is, like, come on, you know, we've all had like.

So

Sasha Mereu: So

Dave: that in itself incorporates where as they get older, and obviously like things happen, there's like a whole like song by Ozzy Osborne called Changes for a Reason.

Sasha Mereu: yeah absolutely

Dave: Yeah. Yeah. So when you have that environment for your kids, even when they're going through the difficulty and the depression and the changes and all that, they don't feel as isolated.

Sasha Mereu: Absolutely they do And you know it it's interesting I I had not thought about it in exactly those terms but I think you you nailed it Um having been brought up in an environment that values art and you know what what is art but self-expression of the artist Filtered through you know a given medium Um they have been able to see uh just how supportive uh the music community is with with with musicians and bands and going to live shows and having all of that And when you're feeling isolated chances are there's a bunch of other people who are feeling similar And if you're able to connect with them all of a sudden you're less lonely Shared pain is less and shared joy is increased And um it's been a pretty Pretty amazing experiences And of course you know curve balls bumps on the road Things that uh some mornings as a as a parent I will wake up and be like I'm sorry what happened last night And then we're gonna deal with that and sort of figure it out But it has never been

Dave: Too much.

Sasha Mereu: It it it it's

Dave: Yeah.

Dave: I think also something that I've learned and something I've just experienced is you, you have this level of fear where you see this pretty much in every single generation. You know, you had a. Back in the sixties, everybody was complaining about the new generation and how they were too progressive, how they were thinking too deeply or how,

Sasha Mereu: Right

Dave: and then you have the eighties that come around and you get grunge and you get punk and you get hard rock and you get metal and like, oh my God, what?

What are you, what are you putting safety pins all over your body? You know, all that kind of stuff. But you notice there's a pattern over here, right? It's like every single 10 to 20 years, we're always complaining about the new generation. We're always complaining that technology's getting too dangerous.

then you have to think to yourself, okay, so then how much of that is actually true? Because it keeps on repeating itself over and over again, and just different flavors of ice cream. Like Ben, like Baskin Robbins. Yes.

Dave: Unless you're in Iran, but yeah.

Sasha Mereu: un

Dave: Yeah.

Dave: It's like Metallica's, not Metallica's. Not even that hardcore.

Sasha Mereu: Mm-hmm

Dave: that's, that's the funny part.

Sasha Mereu: progressive you know

Dave: it's hilarious. 'cause like you then fast forward maybe like, what, 10 years later and you get Stein,

Sasha Mereu: yeah

Dave: which is like,

Sasha Mereu: band of all time by the way just

Dave: I love Stein.

Sasha Mereu: consummate amazing artists and I adore the stuff that they do the controversial things they they and they do that on their own terms and that's it Super mad respect for

Dave: People. The thing about, like for example, I'm in the automotive industry and I am one of those, I love German cars. I, I've, I, I just, there's something just so incredible about,

Sasha Mereu: Hundred percent

Dave: there's something about Germany that like people just don't understand where yet they, they're kind of like New Yorkers. They're a little cold, they're a little bitter.

They're a little hard to break the crust.

Sasha Mereu: Mm-hmm

They did it in German, and people don't know this. They did this in traditional German, so there's different dialects of German. They used traditional German.

Sasha Mereu: they use Yeah

Dave: Yeah. So. First off, really difficult to write. 'cause if you've ever seen German, it like takes up an entire line of a page is one word. And then they're figuring out how to make When metal already was kind of new, you know, they came in like 94, like metal kind of came out like in the mid eighties, early eighties, barely.

That to me is like insane creativity right there.

Dave: Yeah. Yeah.

Sasha Mereu: mish it it sounds like a factory It is so perfectly timed and rhythmic

Dave: beat

Sasha Mereu: sort of marching

Dave: and that echo and that echo that plays in the back slope.

Sasha Mereu: it's

Dave: Oh my God.

Sasha Mereu: it's it's really cool But yeah so them in comparison to Metallica and even like if you're looking at the same time you know Slayer was out at the same time Slayer was way scarier than Metallica ever was

You're like, oh, okay. I could bring my 9-year-old to this. You can't do that with corn or tool. It doesn't work that way.

Sasha Mereu: It's uh yeah different different experiences uh uh lead to different performances and the whole thing You gotta you gotta pay attention to what to what's going on and what you're what you're comfortable with

Dave: What what is also really bizarre is like I, I collect vinyl records

Sasha Mereu: Mm-hmm

Dave: and one thing I've noticed about Einstein, especially like their album Sona and some of their, um, older albums.

Sasha Mereu: Yeah Yeah

Dave: Okay, so if people are not familiar with this in the art world, there's what's called, um, basically like music gouging, where when artists produce an album, in the case, they didn't make very many because they obviously weren't very big.

You'll have these greedy people that will buy all of them. They buy all, you know, go on Disco Cog. You can see this. It's usually just one or two people that own the entire catalog.

Dave: And then what they do is they'll charge four, five, $6,000. 'cause where the hell are you supposed to buy it? They own all of it.

And that kind of stuff kind of pisses me off just a little bit to the point of like, not only are you abusing another artist's work, you didn't even make that work. You're just a lazy piece of shit sitting on a couch that just decided to, you have a genius idea and you're taking advantage of it.

Dave: It's, and it, you know, it's wild. Like the same thing goes with band t-shirts. I was watching a video that there's a large group in the United States, particularly in the middle of the country, where you have these people that they bought out tons of old band t-shirts. You know, a lot of times you go on eBay and places try to buy them.

You know, you'd stand out in a field and you're just like with a bunch of people and like maybe there'd be a mosh pit if you're lucky. And then, you know, they'd have their own merchandise and stuff. You could buy 'em was pretty cheap. Maybe six, $7. You pick up a CD or whatever. It kind of helped with the revenue as they were kind of doing their, their tour around the United States and then you have now years later where people are really abusing the stuff that they use to keep themselves afloat so they people can actually afford to come to their events, which now is completely unrealistic 'cause of Ticketmaster and all that bullshit

Sasha Mereu: A hundred percent that Yes

Dave: gets my

Sasha Mereu: saw

Dave: in.

Dave: Oh wow.

Dave: No, it, it, it costed. So I live out here in South Florida, um, and I went to see Blondie two years ago,

Sasha Mereu: Uhhuh

Dave: $155

Sasha Mereu: Dude

Dave: when it, first of all, Debbie Harry. Debbie Harry was fantastic, but it pisses me off because me and Debbie Harry come from the same state. We're both from New York.

Sasha Mereu: Okay

Sasha Mereu: Mm-hmm

Dave: when she was living in New York, back in Brooklyn, like, and she went to see a concert with Blonding.

She probably would've paid back then, maybe $10, maybe five bucks.

Sasha Mereu: Mm-hmm

Dave: I paid $155 to be in a tiny little orchestra's ca orchestra thing, or whatever you wanna call it, like Opera House in West Palm Beach, all the way on the top. Like I felt like I was gonna fall out all the way down

Sasha Mereu: It was that extreme that that

Dave: that the client for $155 like that just.

Dave: It's all good, you know? But honestly, on the other side of that, like you have like artists today, even like Youngblood, which a lot of people shit on him because you know, they, you know, there's the comment of like, oh, he's a wannabe Ozzy Osborne and you know, he's taking Ozzy Osborne, all that kind of jazz.

And there wasn't really any seating. It was just like in the middle of a field. But that's the point, right? We are, yeah, there's economy and inflation of all that, but there are artists that can make the choice to do that. To do that.

Dave: Well, because I think it's really important when it comes to music. Yes. There's a lot of different ways to experience music. You know, you could do it through your phone, you could do it through an iPod, cd, vinyl records. You know, you could watch a YouTube. I don't know about you, but there's something about live music.

Sasha Mereu: Oh yeah a hundred percent In fact I think so I've had a I've had a bunch of conversations uh with people over the course of the last probably six months Um and that time uh it has been sort of identified that especially with AI music coming into it which we haven't even gotten into

Dave: we will. Oh, we're gonna get in there.

Sasha Mereu: things

Dave: there?

Sasha Mereu: are

Dave: Yeah.

Dave: It really would be, and like honestly, to be able to even go to, I had, um. Was this last year, or was that a year and a half ago? There's a, there's a ban from Belarus. They're called Oma.

Sasha Mereu: Oh yeah

So I bought my ticket. It's like in this tiny little plaza, like right before downtown Fort Lauderdale, and there's like this big line. And the thing is like, I'm not from Europe, you know, I obviously know that there's Eastern and Western European culture. The thing that a lot of us don't understand is certain parts of Europe, especially like the parts that are part of the USSR, they're still very Soviet like.

Very Soviet and you have this group that just comes up on stage. They look like they came out of one of those like factories, you know, making cotton and copper, and they get up there and they're just singing and you don't understand a word that they're saying, but you guarantee you there's something about that you cannot recreate.

Sasha Mereu: That's

Dave: That's it.

Sasha Mereu: My my uh my fiance is Russian uh so she she grew up in the Soviet Union and uh definitely getting some of the artists that she has shared with me over the course of of our relationship have have been super interesting in terms of getting

Dave: Yeah.

Sasha Mereu: that point of view And um you know it it was a different world Uh it was a different you know For a long time rock and roll was was was outlawed It was illegal And could you know you listening to it or being caught with it would end you up in

Dave: Or Siberia, which, uh,

Sasha Mereu: yeah yeah Absolutely

Dave: not fun.

Sasha Mereu: I dunno what Absolutely Wild and uh good for them for for getting out there I I think they're coming to Portland um on their next tour is what they they

Dave: You, have you seen,

Sasha Mereu: see them My daughter loves them

Dave: have you seen them?

Sasha Mereu: I and not not live I've not

Sasha Mereu: it's close It's close enough

Dave: but

Sasha Mereu: but

Dave: I just, that's just a testament of time, right? Because I think what we kind of forget is yes, we have ai, we have all these technologies.

At the same time, you still need to have human interaction. You still need to be able to have human input. I'm gonna go completely off subject for this just for a sec. We're, if you look at space aviation and space in regards to like just exploring our known universe, we have all of these autonomous probes that have gone to deep space.

But if anything goes wrong, wait 24, literally 24 years. Which was what happened with Voyager. They literally had to wait like something 18 to 20 years until it was able to get fixed. So you are always going to need some level of human input. Yes, probably we will change and integrate or be everything changes and progresses over time.

Sasha Mereu: agree with

Dave: Yeah.

Dave: What I think though also people forget, right, is a lot of these advancements in technology has allowed even, for example, synthesizers or, you know, the, um, I forgot the terminology, but those keyboards where they use AI and software, technology and hardware, where they get to be more meticulous. So if you're, um, an editor or an engineer and you're working with one of these machines, you have a lot more to play at your fingertips, which.

Sasha Mereu: Even just yeah I was

Dave: was gonna say.

Dave: Yeah, and it's also where this, okay, there's also this idea of where jobs, you know, and this idea of like things will be completely eliminated. And I'll tell you straight up as from like the own industry that I'm in, like for example, even with podcasting or even, for example, automotive. What's basically happened is, is that you then have one person that's able to do multiple jobs, because 15 years ago for me to do this, I would probably need a staff of maybe three or four different people.

Sasha Mereu: course

Dave: Today, I can pretty much do this by myself, and it's the same thing when it comes to automotive. It's where instead of you needing to have four or five people doing multiple different types of jobs on a vehicle. You can have pretty much one person that's like certified and skilled to a degree where they could do the job of all the people.

Sasha Mereu: Mm-hmm

Sasha Mereu: So

Dave: it's not eliminating or destroying jobs. It's making jobs more efficient. Right. Doesn't it make more sense that you can have somebody that can seamlessly do five or six things in one go around then versus having something six, seven, or eight people doing all of those things to make it work?

Sasha Mereu: I'm just hoping that uh that the compensation is going to to be adjusted Uh for that um you know

Dave: You'd hope.

Dave: Yeah, there's a reason why I don't work for any American companies. Like, and I'm not, I'm not trying to be critical of American companies, but in the sense, especially in the industries that we work around,

Sasha Mereu: Mm-hmm

Dave: a lot of what we've been discussing and a lot of this information of, you know, how bad it comes from these companies.

Okay? Because let's be real and honest, alright? A lot of these music houses. Production. You know, in regards to filmmaking, when it comes to, a lot of these American companies have destroyed communities. They've rid, like, they've literally destroyed environments and communities and cultures like to the point where you have areas that just are barren and it's completely abandoned, and

Sasha Mereu: Walmart

Dave: so

Sasha Mereu: So

Dave: you then ask yourself this question then, okay.

Sasha Mereu: Yep

Dave: They, nobody's really complaining. So then you have to ask your que, you have to ask yourself. The question then is like. It's not us. That's the problem.

Sasha Mereu: Yeah

Dave: They're the problem.

Sasha Mereu: Yeah it's you know it whole system of you know and we don't have to make this into a sociopolitical uh economic

Dave: No, we're just talking about art.

Sasha Mereu: Yeah the

Dave: Yeah.

They're not that great and a lot of the times they're kind of crap. You know? Again, I'm not trying to criticize, but like think about mentality, right? If you have people that are working for these brands, like you said, you know, there's no check balance of power and culture, there's no real attitude or intention of keeping creativity, keeping a structure.

What do you think is gonna happen?

Sasha Mereu: Yeah If there's a void that void is going to get felt

Dave: Oh my god.

Sasha Mereu: Oh man

It's really great to be able to support, support the United States and support all that, but there's so many other. Companies, there's so many other people. There's so many other small Indian independent artists everywhere else.

Sasha Mereu: Uh

Dave: I hate to say this, it sometimes just makes more sense to try to work along with them than focusing a lot of the time.

Your energy here,

Sasha Mereu: Well and we've you know globalization being what it is uh it is much easier I mean the fact that you and I are speaking from separate time zones on opposite ends of the country currently in real time with zero leg is is

Dave: amazing.

Sasha Mereu: like is mind blowing for me as a child of the eighties This is this is the future Um and that makes collaboration in between artists Um Into a different beast than it was even even really 10 years ago you know

Sasha Mereu: Mm-hmm Exactly Yeah

Dave: turn into the radio and you, you hear something like this or some guy being like, Hey, welcome to 1 0 3 0.4.

We have our today, our guest, and you're just sitting there, you're listening to this whole thing. And that kind of like transitioned over into podcasting where you know you have video input and now not only just audio and that transitioned all the way to like YouTube and to Rumble and all of these different places.

They never met. Never met each other. They're all over on video and they're sending information back and forth.

Sasha Mereu: When my so I'm I'm old enough that I remember when Gmail was invented and came out and it

Dave: I'm not that old.

Dave: It's amazing.

Sasha Mereu: of redefined what what space you know same space means

Dave: And also like speaking of literally physical space, right?

Sasha Mereu: Mm-hmm

Dave: I even remember a time where a 500 megabit, like flash drive was like $25.

Sasha Mereu: Absolutely

Dave: You know, we like growing up, like having a computer that had like 50 gigabytes was. Whoa. It's crazy. Like you got 50 gigs, what whatcha gonna do with 50 gigs?

Sasha Mereu: do with

Dave: Yeah.

Sasha Mereu: What do you even need that

Dave: Like, like are you gonna like, burn all your CDs?

Sasha Mereu: That That's incredible

Dave: I, I can't even, I can't,

Sasha Mereu: Fathom

Dave: I can't even fathom.

Sasha Mereu: size

Dave: You know, like, we're, we're still in this, like that alone.

Just, just to be able to understand as a filmmaker, as a producer, just being able to be as a creator, the amount of stuff that you're able to do at your fingertips. Like you can go out, especially as a filmmaker today, I kid you not, and make a film just like Disney. As if you're Walt Disney Productions from start to finish and make it as if probably the same qualities as Disney.

Sasha Mereu: Yeah

And that's like what, 20 years.

Dave: Well, you do have, you do have people like Wes Anderson and Quin Tarantino. That still, the thing about it is,

Sasha Mereu: about it

Dave: is my personal opinion, and I've said this before, I personally think that the, the truest joker that we've ever gotten, that is the closest to, you know, like even like Caesar Romero, which he was goofy as fucking that TV series, it's very hard to watch, but.

Was Quin Tarantinos a joker with Joaquin Phoenix? I mean, I think that it added in realistic elements. Gotham City kind of felt a little bit more like a real city.

Sasha Mereu: Mm-hmm

Dave: It felt like New York. It, it felt like,

Sasha Mereu: course

Dave: it felt a hundred percent like New York, and I guarantee they felt meant in New York. Uh, but that was just amazing right there.

But the man has a way with films that's just like, the Grand Budapest Hotel is like a great example of it. I,

Sasha Mereu: Yeah yeah yeah yeah

Dave: I don't care about his background. I don't know what the man does, but like, you know, you got the Wes Anderson filters and the people making the Wes Anderson TikTok video. I'm sorry. It's not like his films.

He has this thing with miniatures and I fucking love his miniatures, by the way. I think that's the most genius. Oh.

Dave: Uh.

Dave: Well, it is crazy because even with Batman, you know, and there's a lot of controversy because not everybody likes the two Tim Burton Batman movie. I personally love the the two Tim Burton Batman movies

Sasha Mereu: Yeah a hundred percent

Dave: because Tim Burton, he. Made it like as if it is it's people. It it's a cartoon that came out in the forties.

Batman is not supposed to be real like they're supposed. And he really leaned into that very, very heavily. And then what happens is, because these days like people got so used to the dark night, you know, like, it's like, Ugh, Tim Burton's, it's like, that's just as cheesy as the Batman TV series from the sixties.

Dave: I think it was returns.

Sasha Mereu: book

Dave: Was it Batman Returns? Because he did, I think Tim Burton

Sasha Mereu: Tim Briton did the first two He did Batman and Batman Returns Those are those were a thing And then Michael Keaton took off

Dave: right.

Sasha Mereu: and we and we got somebody else I think Val Kilmer did one And then George Clooney did another one

Dave: That's right, the last two in the nineties.

Dave: It's Batman and Robin.

Sasha Mereu: it was there it is Okay

Dave: Batman and Robin with Val Kilmer. I, I'm not, okay. I'm not a total fan of Val Kilmer, Kilmer's portrayal of Batman. I, I think Michael Keaton did a really good job and so did

Sasha Mereu: Yeah

Dave: Chris, you know, um, Christopher Nolan, but Christian Bale, sorry, but. The thing that I love the most, and I this is gonna sound bizarre, Danny DeVito's Penguin,

Sasha Mereu: Great

Dave: oh my God.

Sasha Mereu: Over the

Dave: He gave the, I personally, he gave the best Batman, the, the best Batman penguin I've ever seen. Because it's Danny DeVito, you know? And then like years later, it's always sunny in, in Philadelphia and he, and it's just like, oh my God. And he, by the way, it's interesting, I didn't know this when he did, it's always sunny in Philadelphia.

Sasha Mereu: Of course he

Dave: Of course he did.

Sasha Mereu: is

Dave: course he did the quacking, which was weird. And I was like watching a YouTube video about this and they went to some of the episodes and I was like, ah. Oh my. And you don't even pick up on it 'cause he's like doing like that weird bit in the bar or whatever, and you're like, and then when you put the pieces together you're just like, oh my God.

That's just, that to me is art and creativity and just shows like the level of some actors will go like you, you don't have to love Jack Nicholson's version of the Joker, but it's so freaking memorable. Come on.

Sasha Mereu: You know I I actually really like that portrayal He's not my favorite joker but I

Dave: No.

Dave: Yeah, I,

Sasha Mereu: Um

Dave: I think for me personally, I think Joaquin Phoenix and then number two would probably be Caesar Romero because as bad as a TV series is, I don't know what it is. It feels like Caesar Romero was the only one in the entire TV series

Sasha Mereu: Mm-hmm

Dave: took his role seriously. Like no offense to Adam West.

And that does really show, like when you're watching even scenes with him in, in the TV series, and it gets cringey and then all of a sudden it goes to joker. You get a little uncomfortable, it gets a little bit unsettling, you know? And then when he starts laughing and cackling, you're like, oh my God, this man's, this man's a thicko.

It's a psychopath.

Dave: I didn't even think about that. Oh my God, that was amazing.

Sasha Mereu: mark Hamill is is my joker And it it's just based upon his his perspective of being this crazy sort of a psycho who who lives on the outskirts of you know what does the Joker do all day except for trying to plot to kill Batman and kill a bunch of people and laugh about it and do it in funny and weird ways that are sarcastic and and worrying And I don't know he just that uh when I remember reading in an interview that when he came in to read for that when they would do episodes they eventually started to just put a camera on uh mark Hamill As he was reading the lines everyone else was sitting down at

Dave: He used to make the face, he used to make the faces.

Sasha Mereu: he would be embodying the whole thing and then they would just send the video to the animators and just be like just do that That's what the Joker is doing So I

Dave: I,

Sasha Mereu: Pretty

Dave: I remember, I remember

Sasha Mereu: remember

Like no, obviously it's animation, but like compared to like all the other

Sasha Mereu: Yeah

Dave: was heavy,

Sasha Mereu: I mean that that art style was something that had

Dave: I.

Sasha Mereu: pioneered um where they all of the art all of the cells were drawn over a black background instead of a white background which gave it that that look So that that version of Gotham is by definition it it's dark everything fades to black around the edges and in the in the negative space And it uh it just gave it this look And he came in and um Just nailed the role which was which was incredible

Dave: really did.

Dave: No, that's fine man. I wanted to, before we wrap up, um, just to go over, I know you got a website, you got social media. Um, where can these wonderful people find you?

Dave: You are a man of many trades. What can I say? Well, listen, Sasha, thank you so much for coming on. Um, to anybody out there, if you wanna check out more of the podcast, you can find us at Lost in the Groove Pod everywhere and anywhere you listen to podcasts. So with that, motherfuckers, we will catch you on the next one.

All right, peace out. Ah.

Sasha Mereu: Hey thanks man