We sit down with Nick Schiffer of NS Builders. Uncompromising on quality & craftsmanship to always provide a better product, Nick founded NS Builders and has turned it into one of Boston’s most sought-after builders. Nick’s philosophy is to share his building and business practices across social media to share knowledge with the building industry and provide transparency for potential and current clients. We sit down and discuss remodeling, building, and even powertools by FESTOOL.

For more information about Nick Schiffer: https://www.nickschiffer.com/

For more information about NS Builders: https://www.nsbuilders.com/

For more information about FESTOOL: https://www.festoolusa.com

The Modern Craftsman Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernCraftsman/videos

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Mentioned in this episode:

A new kind of decking and siding from Millboard

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Baldwin Hardware

Baldwin Hardware

[00:00:17] Nick Schiffer: is gorgeous stuff. When you say that, it's funny because like, that's one of the reasons why I like it so much is cuz it looks good, it's sexy and it's super sexy, man.

[00:00:51] Nick Schiffer: And when it comes to remodeling, renovating your home, there is a covered is. [00:01:00]

[00:01:13] Eric Goranson: What's

[00:01:17] Eric Goranson: I have seen you on the different n h B stages and everything else. You and I like kind of cross paths between friends and stuff, but never have really spent time

[00:01:32] Nick Schiffer: Right. It's, it's, it's, it's interesting, especially I feel like it's, so even when you go to the, the like i b s and things like that, I feel like I see the same people. Right. And it's, and it's people that even live in Boston that I never see in Boston. But then I'll go to a million square foot trade show and I'll bump into 'em six times.

[00:01:54] Eric Goranson: yeah, we have a lot of common friends. It's hilarious. Well, man, you have been doing so much good [00:02:00] stuff out there with NS builders and, I mean, you are just legendary in the Boston scene across the US as well. But let's talk about you and your chops a little bit cuz uh, sure.

[00:02:21] Nick Schiffer: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for me, you know, Especially when we started growing as a business and outside of just being a carpenter or a carpentry business, that's where I, I really kind of sat my, my role into kind of helping design.

[00:02:53] Nick Schiffer: How do we, how do we make this detail better or cooler? Uh, and, and most of the time that works out for me. There's been a handful of [00:03:00] times where I make something quote unquote cooler and it becomes wildly expensive and, uh, a nightmare to maintain. And my guys hate me for it. But the, you know, the point is, is I, I like to challenge the, the normal way of, uh, doing something and constantly question like, how do we do this better?

[00:03:19] Eric Goranson: and, and you come from a part of the country where, where the craft is big, you know? Yeah. I mean, I've worked all over the country with, with different people like you have, you know? Mm-hmm. and there's just something about the old world, craftsmanship of the Northeast, and, you know, it's cool.

[00:03:54] Nick Schiffer: I'm like, yeah, man. But it's, it's just different. It's, you know, it's not put together the same way with the same type of [00:04:00] people. They're just not, there's not that many of them, you know, in different parts of the country. And, you know, and I think about that when we talk about it on the po the, the modern craftsman.

[00:04:34] Nick Schiffer: But yeah, I mean, I'm, I I I, I do feel fortunate that we are in the Northeast and there's a lot of people that love craftsmanship, and I'm hoping that, you know, what we're doing with creating awareness on social and podcasts and things like that, that we're, you know, encouraging people to get into it. Um, because it, you know, I have a lot of thoughts on this, but it's not a, it's, it's not a, an easy career to [00:05:00] be in.

[00:05:24] Nick Schiffer: This is a career that you get into because you are passionate about it and can you make a good living on it? Of course. Can you support your family? Of course. But it's hard work, no matter what. There's way

[00:05:39] Nick Schiffer: scheme, that's for sure. Yeah. And it's very hard work.

[00:06:19] Nick Schiffer: Especially in, in, in construction related fields. Well, if you

[00:06:37] Eric Goranson: You're never done learning in

[00:07:01] Nick Schiffer: You know, like, how do we, we're building this pantry right now, that's a big slat wall and there's a po There was a pocket door detailed on it. I'm like, man, it would be really cool if when that door shut, it flushed out with the face of it. So when you step back, it didn't look like there was a door there.

[00:07:37] Nick Schiffer: Yeah.

[00:07:55] Eric Goranson: And there are some great people all across the country. Oh,

[00:08:21] Nick Schiffer: And yeah, I mean, I'm with you. I'm not ripping on any part of the country or any, any market or anyone that's in different parts that truly does love the craft. It's just that it's, you know, at least it's something that's communicated pretty often that the northeast is densely. Packed with people that appreciate craft on both sides more than other areas.

[00:08:40] Eric Goranson: know, it's funny, and I learned this a few years ago. I was up in Boston speaking for the NR N R L A up there for the Northeastern Retail Lumber Association up there. I was talking home tech to a bunch of lumber yards that weren't ready to talk home tech yet. Mm-hmm. Cuz they're very old school. Yeah.

[00:09:10] go.

[00:09:18] Nick Schiffer: And, and I think about software and, and how things are developing so quickly. There's all of the, I mean, An enormous amount of people in the, the tech space for construction right now. And there's, everyone is, is coming out with a new, new idea to do something faster. And I see a lot of it, but a lot of 'em reach out to me.

[00:09:55] Nick Schiffer: And it was like, first you do this and then this, and then you do that, and then you, and then all of a sudden it's like step [00:10:00] 13. I'm like, dude lost me. This is, yeah, you lost me. Like this, this, this is just a different way of doing it. Like you were in trying to change the way we do something rather than make it more efficient.

[00:10:16] Eric Goranson: the steps by half, awesome, but if I gonna go learn days of process to do the same thing.

[00:10:37] Nick Schiffer: Yeah. And if you can't, you know, labor is more expensive, material is more expensive. And if you're continually putting in twice or three times as much labor to execute something at a higher level because, because you want it to be a higher level of craftsmanship, I mean, To me, that means that, okay, there's value [00:11:00] to that, but there's also value to figuring out how do you get, you can get there faster.

[00:11:20] Nick Schiffer: I'm like, I get that man. Like I totally understand that feeling, but, The, the reality is like you could take out the, the monotonous work and put it on a computer controlled, you know, c n c that's cutting all your parts and pieces, you know exactly the same. Exactly the same. Make that part of the pro, like that process more efficient so you can turn around and then spend more time on the, the, the sexy craftsmanship stuff, the stuff that does require handwork, that, that when it is done by hand, there's an actual benefit to the end result.

[00:12:12] Nick Schiffer: Yeah.

[00:12:37] Nick Schiffer: Yeah. Use less material. You're maximize your, your nesting p parts and pieces. I mean, that's one of the coolest parts of it, I think. You know, there's a, a framer, uh, who's got a shop that pre-fabricate all his walls in a shop and was touring his shop one day and he's, he orders all his plywood extra, like 10 foot sheets.

[00:13:17] Nick Schiffer: How cool is that? I mean, it's, you know, to do that by hand. Would take days because you're like, all right, which part do I cut? Now? You know where a computer can figure that out for you. And there's like, you're not ruining the craftsmanship there. No. You're all, what you're doing is you're maximizing the use of material, which is helping counteract the cost of material.

[00:14:02] Nick Schiffer: And, and end up with Yeah. You know, a four foot piece that, you know, never ends up getting used or you put it aside to use it for, you know, a, uh, a cripple stud that, you know, then you forget that you ha have that four foot piece and then it's just a four foot piece sitting in the corner of your shop.

[00:14:22] Nick Schiffer: years. So you, I'm gonna get that for later. You mean like the 24 drawer boxes I've, we've ordered incorrectly. That's sit in the corner of our shop that we're dude going to, dude, who doesn't

[00:14:33] Eric Goranson: What are you talking about?

[00:14:48] Eric Goranson: uh, draw boxes and I have a couple shower door panels here

[00:14:55] Nick Schiffer: Yeah. Um, I've got a plan for

[00:15:03] Nick Schiffer: Yeah, right. . Yeah. We built a same cut a thing, we built a kitchenette for our office and it's like, here's a perfect time to use material that we already have.

[00:15:22] Eric Goranson: Well, I wanna talk about power tools with you for a second. Yeah. Cause uh, man, there's some good stuff out there. And I know you do a lot with Fest tool.

[00:15:36] Nick Schiffer: stuff. When you say that, it's funny because like, that's one of the reasons why I like it so much is cuz it looks good, it's sexy and it's super sexy, man. And I, and there's so many, so we're refitting our, um, one of our vans, uh, for home care and it's kind of a hodgepodge of different tools and everything does its job like a hundred percent.

[00:16:19] Nick Schiffer: After this meeting, I don't wanna talk about it anymore. Let's just because I know Yep. It's, everything's got when that, that cart rolls through that front door and the client's looking at like, oh, that's really neat looking. Everything's the same. Everything's super clean. Oh wow. Everything has its spot.

[00:16:49] Eric Goranson: the crack, right? That's i's the first hit.

[00:17:06] Nick Schiffer: And then can I get a, another vacuum? He's like, dude, and the next thing go, you know, it's like, I need a

[00:17:15] Nick Schiffer: And, right. And I'm, I remember I did a deck and I was like, that domino, I, I need the xl. Like, I didn't, I like, definitely didn't, but I was like, no, no, but if, I mean, I might as well have it, you know, because I can use it now and probably use it again.

[00:17:34] Eric Goranson: Yeah. It's good looking stuff and it, it, what I. It's one, it's sexy, but it's just so finely made. It's got that German engineering and I, it's hard to put a word to it, but it just does, it's just got that, it's meant for a crafts person

[00:17:50] Nick Schiffer: Yeah. It's, it, you know what, um, I know what you're getting at. Because like, I think about when sge like demonstrates something where everything that the [00:18:00] tools do, like the indicator plates and like the, the tabs on the side of the dom, it's very, once you know how to use it, it's super intuitive. Yeah. And when said uses like, he's not even looking at the thing.

[00:18:29] Nick Schiffer: Yeah. You know, like the indicator, you know, the side, the, the gauge or the side gauges on the, the, the domino is a perfect example. And it's like, you know, it's just everything there was, there was thought to everything. And even, I mean, um, what was it, the, one of the Sanders has like the smart mode on it and it's just like, yeah, I don't know.

[00:18:52] Eric Goranson: sit here and just like Jule over tools all day

[00:18:55] Eric Goranson: hundred percent . But I just, I just love how they've, they've put it together and [00:19:00] it, and there's some tool companies that do a great job out there and I mean, there's a lot of great tools out there. And if you're a homeowner out there, uh, you know, there's so many great brands out there, so I don't wanna say bad about it, but for guys that are doing, you know, for folks that are out there building stuff every day, this is the stuff that if you wanna do that, Really, you know, detailed work.

[00:19:23] Nick Schiffer: No, a hundred percent. And, and I think you're right, like there's a lot of tools out there and there is this like misconception that, you know, you need to have particular tools or like a, a, a particular brand. It's not, it, it really does come down to preference. And are there benefits to using something like Fest Tool over another tool brand?

[00:20:04] Nick Schiffer: Desirable to work with where it's like, yeah, I could go buy, uh, you know, a $40 belt sander and, and do do the damn thing if I need to. But if I have a, a really nice, you know, belt sander or a really nice tool, like I'm gonna treat it a little bit differently and it's gonna have a little bit more capacity in the sense of like what I can do with it creatively and exactly, and, and, and how much control I have over it.

[00:20:51] Nick Schiffer: It's, you know, because I have a. Dust extractor on it. I'm like, that's a, that, that was money. That, that's, that was valuable to me. You could be putting [00:21:00] a

[00:21:05] Nick Schiffer: that up.

[00:21:09] Eric Goranson: go outside to cut stuff.

[00:21:23] Nick Schiffer: Uh, but even now, I mean it's, you know, yeah, we talk about how cool it looks in the van and for the client, but, you know, all, all of my guys, you know, I'm not gonna say they demand the tools, but it's like they ask about it, it's like, Hey, can we get this? Can we get that? You know why? Sure. It's like, well, this will make my job easier.

[00:21:57] Nick Schiffer: And, you know, and whether that's [00:22:00] immediately or work towards it, you know, we will, we will make the effort to, to get that tool as quickly as possible. . It ends up

[00:22:17] Nick Schiffer: A hundred percent.

[00:22:21] Nick Schiffer: I have, yeah. Yeah. I, I had, uh, I, I say I had, uh, meaning like someone else in my company now Yeah. Has it in their truck. Uh, but I had the, I think it's hkc like that mm-hmm. that cutoff saw. Uh, so I use that framing. Um, I, I definitely use the chop saw framing, especially like interior framing.

[00:23:02] Nick Schiffer: That's what I

[00:23:10] Nick Schiffer: Yeah. And if you're, but if you're cutting like a half a dozen, two by fours to frame up a small wall Yeah, totally. But you're bla if you're blasting out a, a, a hip, a thousand square foot frame with Yeah.

[00:23:31] Eric Goranson: Are you gonna take the Ferrari out four by four?

[00:23:39] Eric Goranson: That's what

[00:23:43] Nick Schiffer: A guy's doing that with a Ferrari. Absolutely.

[00:23:59] Nick Schiffer: [00:24:00] crazy.

[00:24:19] Nick Schiffer: And they were like, no, we're not gonna do that. We're not gonna, we're not really gonna get into that space. We're not gonna compete with that. Um, and they just really, like you said, they stay in their lame or, you know, they really just, you know, they know what they're good at and they're, they're focused on that product.

[00:24:52] Nick Schiffer: Why not? Shaper I think was similar where they were using the router motor. It's like, yeah, that's another that it, they, it was within [00:25:00] their wheelhouse. Sure. Um, but they're not, you know, they weren't then saying, all right, we need to, you know, Create a, a less expensive drill or, or impact driver or whatever.

[00:25:23] Eric Goranson: yeah. Yeah. That saw stop technology is, is brilliant stuff. I mean, I think we've all played around with the hotdog. I've, you know, tried to sit there and play with that.

[00:25:31] Nick Schiffer: cool. It is. Uh, so I hit my finger once on it. Really? Um, I did, wait, hold on. Now I actually don't remember, remember, and I say that because I know I've hit the, the, I've had the break go off on me, but now I can't remember. Yeah. If it was a wet piece of wood for me, wood or what, that's my finger. Yeah.

[00:26:10] Nick Schiffer: And, and of course like the break went off, but it's, I'm like, dude, all I thought about was years ago I saw this Volvo commercial when they came out with the automatic braking. Yeah. When they, when they saw a pedestrian and the video was like, the, the guy just hit the gas and someone has shut it off and the dude like, hit the dude, like hit the guy in front of him.

[00:26:47] Nick Schiffer: Yeah, exactly. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. It is. I mean it's, regardless if I, if it was my finger or a piece of wet wood, I mean, when it goes off it's like, damn, that was. [00:27:00] That was it. Lets, you know,

[00:27:08] Nick Schiffer: boom.

[00:27:18] Eric Goranson: like a 50 pound piece of steel lands on your deck of your table saw. Yes.

[00:27:34] Nick Schiffer: Yeah. It's like, oh, just my saw automatically, like eating a blade and eating. Yeah, eating itself. works well, though. Works well. Yeah, for

[00:27:52] Nick Schiffer: yeah. Yep. See? Yeah. I, yeah. My, uh, this. I'll never forget that [00:28:00] I, I was, I was building this shed for, uh, this family.

[00:28:23] Nick Schiffer: It was actually a shop one. So it had like the metal base bolted to it. Yep. But I used to bring, I used to bring it out to the job site, and so I'm pushing the last piece of trim. It's probably two, two and a half inches, you know, wide. Always push it through without a push stick, like my whole life, like that was just, you know, it was just what I did.

[00:29:06] Nick Schiffer: And then the blade, I sawed the line of my nail went up my fingernail. And when it hit my knuckle, my recollection is that the blade jammed on my knuckle. Oh, dude. And I, the knuckle was the

[00:29:19] Nick Schiffer: aluminum. Yeah. Yes. Now God and I, and I reached down and I shut the table saw off, and I look, I like, look at my hand and my glove had like pulled down a little bit, so Sure.

[00:29:47] Nick Schiffer: I'm like, all right, I'm good. This hurts, but I'm gonna tape it up. So I go to my trailer, I'm looking for electrical tape, of course, right? Yep. Blue Tape

[00:29:55] Nick Schiffer: than Blue Tape. Yep. And can't find any. So I find Tape [00:30:00] Dope . Aw. And I'm like, all right, this should work. So I wrap up my fingers for tape.

[00:30:22] Nick Schiffer: They're like, okay, what's going on? I'm like, I'm at such and such a dress. I cut my hand on the table, saw I, I just don't have any bandages and I'm bleeding pretty bad. And I just want, I, I just need someone to help me come bandage my hand cuz I no one's home and I don't want, I can't drive cuz there's blood spraying outta my finger.

[00:30:53] Nick Schiffer: I'm like, oh, I just needed help with something, but enjoy. I'll talk to you later. Yeah. And then, and later on, did you

[00:31:00] Nick Schiffer: scary, dude. Later on I told him, he goes, dude, I would've got in my truck. I'm like, nah, no, don't worry about it. So I called my brother and I'm like, and I tell him, I'm like, Hey, this is what's going on.

[00:31:26] Nick Schiffer: And she's like, what's going on? I'm like, oh, I just cut my hand. Everything's okay. And she's like, are you sure? I'm like, totally fine. So the EMCs come over, they're like, what's going on? And they look at my hand and she, uh, the EMT looks at me and she goes, Hey, you're in shock right now. I'm like, no, I'm good.

[00:32:06] Nick Schiffer: So I fought with her, eventually got in the, the ambulance and I called. So I called my, uh, I called my mother at the time, but I called my brother to, I was like, Hey, I just need to go. I need you to get a ride and pick up all my tools. I couldn't pick them up. Sure, yeah. You, and, and can you put 'em all in the back of my truck and just bring my truck home?

[00:32:36] Nick Schiffer: I'm like, I'll, I'll take it off. And she goes, I'm gonna cut it off. I'm like, and I was like, beside myself. I was like, no, this is my favorite work sweatshirt. And she's like, getting the scissors and she's like, cutting my sweatshirt off. And then all of a sudden pain. Yep. And I went into like crazy pain. I get to the hospital, I'm like, I was a, I, I was in so, so much pain.

[00:33:18] Nick Schiffer: Bandaged up and um, they never healed correctly. I think they did a bad job splinting them, but, yep. Yeah. I mean I can't, like, I can't get them to fully extend straight. Oh yeah. So they droop. Um, yep. But I like that is fine. And that's good. That's good. Yeah. So there's my story, .

[00:33:42] Eric Goranson: All right. But yeah, it's brutal. But we all have those, yeah, we all have those.

[00:34:08] Nick Schiffer: And it didn't hit a bone or anything, but That's good. I had, I had to lift the dog house up and like, like off my leg. Ouch. Uh, because it, like, you know, shot me down to the ground essentially, but Oh, yeah.

[00:34:22] Nick Schiffer: Nice. Mm-hmm. . Yeah, exactly. So, . Yeah. I mean it's, uh, uh, to think about, you know, what year it was then and like how technology that's let, let's go back to tech for a second.

[00:34:58] Nick Schiffer: It's like, no, the, the reason it's [00:35:00] so negative is that it, it, it's always existed at this level. Yes. And, and, and, and I'm relating it to like having bad product. The reason there's always been bad product. There's not more of it, you just are more aware of it now because it's very easy. Yeah. Its easier to find that information.

[00:35:17] Eric Goranson: a hundred percent. And, you know, it's, it's, it's crazy. And, and I, and I talk about on the show this a lot is, you know, there's, there's bad products out there. There's, I mean, you and I can both walk into Home Depot and Lowe's and if somebody said, okay, I'm gonna give you a 500 bucks, go bring me 10 items that don't meet building code.

[00:35:56] Nick Schiffer: Yeah. I mean, it's the same thing with the car industry too, right?

[00:36:23] Nick Schiffer: And there's these bottle traps that, you know, are super common to be specked. Every job will spec them. Yep. And my plumber's like, I can't use that. It's not mass c. And it's, it's silly, but they'll, like, every, every yard will, I mean, every, uh, plumbing supply house will sell it. Yeah. Because it's, it's a, it's a good looking product.

[00:36:57] Nick Schiffer: It's like, then you need to sign something that you say that you're [00:37:00] okay with, with being liable for us not, you know, abiding by the code. Yeah. And, and, and we, and yeah, there's clients that will pay to have us come back and take 'em out and swap 'em.

[00:37:19] Eric Goranson: Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, that's the tough part.

[00:37:37] Nick Schiffer: Pretty sure they're okay. . Yeah.

[00:37:45] Nick Schiffer: Everyone but every, yeah, everybody

[00:37:52] Nick Schiffer: It's like, doesn't mean electrical code. Yeah. And the inspector walks in and it's like, oh, nice blank plate above your bathtub.

[00:38:09] Eric Goranson: accurate. Yeah. It's every inspector sees that plate up there and just shakes their head and walks off going, I know exactly what's gonna happen here.

[00:38:17] Nick Schiffer: But. Yeah. It's inter, I mean, I get it and I, I understand why, you know, these codes are in place. I mean, it's, it's funny, I was having this conversation last night about, um, pregnancy. I have three kids and my, we're we're gonna have a fourth kid. Oh, congrats. Thanks. And, uh, my wife is gonna kill me cuz I've mentioned that now on three podcasts.

[00:38:55] Nick Schiffer: Yeah. Like you, you can have that glass

[00:39:01] Nick Schiffer: one time. Exactly. And, and this is in, and I relate it to like how building code and, and, you know, and products are, are, you know, uh, controlled. It's like, well they have to plan for the person that.

[00:39:38] Nick Schiffer: We have to bow vent it and Yep. But, you know, but the charcoal filter would work and it, it, it would actually work quite well. But the problem is, is like they decide that they're not allowed because then they just don't even vent the thing to the roof. Like, oh, I'll just put a charcoal filter on it and call it good.

[00:40:12] Nick Schiffer: I'll have the guard on my blade, you know, on my, my contractor version table saw out in the field when I'm ripping a 45 on a two by four, I'll make sure my guard is on my blade.

[00:40:30] Nick Schiffer: Like it's just not there. I'm sorry guys. That's, and just being honest and, and you know, we actually just hired, um, a safety officer for our, our company because we were like, all right, let's get legit. You know, we're getting bigger, faster, and I wanna be, I want, I want my guys to be safe. I want my, my subs to be safe, my, my partners to be safe.

[00:41:09] Nick Schiffer: Like what is your plan? Like if you're, if you're gonna do something, what, like how are, how are you taking the best measures to prevent an accident? Yeah. And it's, and again, it's like, yeah, you know, they want you to have the table saw guard on at all times, but there's a lot of times where if that, that guy, that guard is on, you actually run the risk of, you know, creating a more dangerous environment.

[00:41:34] Eric Goranson: yeah. There are times that, that, that guard gets in the way and causes more headaches than if it

[00:41:58] Nick Schiffer: Probably small, like very, very [00:42:00] small. And they're just looking to go from like 1% usage to 2% and like just make an improvement. Like get more people to use them, figure out how to make it safer. And it's like, and of course like you can a like soft stops a great example. Like, all right, well without the guard on it.

[00:42:28] Eric Goranson: Yeah. It's, it's, you know, in, in our field here, it's that it's the extension ladders, the roofs, the, the table saws, the air nailers.

[00:42:39] Nick Schiffer: Yeah. And that's, I mean, and that's where like, like I said, we, when we hired the safety officer, I'm like, there's times, I'm not sure what the rule is. It's like, you know, these guys are up in a man basket on a lull. Like do they, like what's the rule for being tied off?

[00:43:09] Nick Schiffer: Where it's like when we get into a new situation, he comes out, he does an inspection with us, and then he walks through like, Hey, these are the, these are what we need to address and this is how I would address it. Smart. And having a smart plan going into place and yeah, I mean, it's, again, it's, you know, it's a small investment for, you know, hopefully a better future for everyone that's involved in our project.

[00:43:29] Eric Goranson: absolutely. Hey, I wanted to ask you, Nick, uh, trades man, we, we still have this trade shortage and it seems like it's getting worse, not better. Mm-hmm. , what's your predictions out there? I, I ask everybody that comes on in, in our fields here that, uh, what do you see out there with the new kids coming into the trades?

[00:43:49] Nick Schiffer: I have a lot of feelings on this. Um, number one, I think that there was this huge push to make the trades more attractive and like create awareness like five years ago. [00:44:00] And I think that we did that. Um, and I think there's an, a massive amount of interest in the trades.

[00:44:30] Nick Schiffer: Send him my way. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll find, find something for him to do. Yeah. Um, but I was chatting with him. I'm like, oh, is cabin making still there? And he is like, no, they, they actually combined with house carpentry. I'm like, that's. Two different, two different trades. Yeah. That's, I'm like, is metal, is machine shop still there?

[00:45:13] Nick Schiffer: You know, there's, there's talk that it's money, that it's this, that it's that, that no one wants to be in it. But then it's like you hear all these kids that do want to be in it. Yeah. Um, so you asked my, my what my predictions are, I think. I think my prediction is that labor is gonna continue to become more expensive.

[00:45:56] Nick Schiffer: A hundred percent agree. I think, I think that, you know, we are going [00:46:00] to be required to be more efficient with material and labor. Um, I think that's gonna put a huge strain on people that have been in this industry for more than a decade because they, quote unquote, have been doing this for more than 10 years and they have their ways of doing it.

[00:46:38] Nick Schiffer: Uh, and modeling and solid works, all that stuff, right? Yeah. Uh, software. Um, and I think that we will be required to have a better outlook and path for people that do want to be in the trade. And, and I say that knowing that I'm working, I'm, [00:47:00] I'm struggling to work on that for my own company in the sense like, I want a very clear path for my people.

[00:47:30] Nick Schiffer: Here's the extracurricular, you know, training that you need to take part of. Here's the things that you need to be able to do, you know, proficiently. And that, I think being ab, being able to communicate that and share that with someone will help counteract the, the desire to constantly jump ship and move to different companies.

[00:48:21] Nick Schiffer: Like we don't, the guys in the trades don't get to do that. They don't get to work from home. They, they are very much on a schedule. Like, you know, I get that the 40 hour work week came from the assembly line, but that has been adapted. That is the norm. We don't technically typically work on weekends. Some guys do, some guys work seven days a week.

[00:49:03] Nick Schiffer: The pressure on us as business owners and, and leaders to, okay. If that's like, that's something that they can't control. They need to be in control of their career, of their earnings. Yep. And whether that's, you know, their, their, their annual pay increase, whether that's a bonus structure, whether that's a career map, you know, in order to retain people, not only within your company, but in the construction industry as a whole.

[00:49:39] Eric Goranson: Yeah. I think it's gonna be very interesting for, you know, the entry level to mid-level home out there. How I think that we are just coming over that hill of the factory built home that that's really gonna be, Where those developments can be built so much more efficiently, with better yields out of [00:50:00] all the materials.

[00:50:09] Nick Schiffer: know. Yeah. I mean it's a, a, a great, great point about the safety, right? Where it's, you know, the, the ability to not only build it offsite for the, the yield on materials, but, and then the controlled environments, but it's also the safety of the guys and, you know, and efficiency of guys where, you know, the other, the other side of this is that, yeah, we do want more people in the trades, but we're not gonna be able to replenish the people that are leaving the trades at the same rate.

[00:51:02] Nick Schiffer: We should be focused on getting people interested in. It's like, that's a fair point. Yeah. You are never going to have the same amount of people in this, because that's just not the world we live in anymore. Everything is being automated, everything is being technologically advanced, and we need to, we, we need to encourage and support that.

[00:51:27] Eric Goranson: So true. So true. You know, it's, it's interesting out there and I think that it's gonna create healthier homes as well, because we're not having to take our homes and put 'em in, you know, in the conditions that they are in with rain and weather and Yeah.

[00:51:52] Nick Schiffer: no. But there will be parts of it that are Yeah, like I think about, you know, so, um, [00:52:00] Encore casinos built a place in Boston and my wife and I stayed there one, uh, one night and I walked in the hotel room and she's like, what are you doing?

[00:52:30] Nick Schiffer: Well, that's how we do it. We walk into buildings and do that. Totally. But what I realized is, I'm like, they're like, well, how, how do you think they, they got all this casing to be so tight. I'm like, this was all made in a factory. Yeah. It's great. It was totally painted. And they figured out how to pre-build everything on a, a shop bench and, and fabricated in a way that could be brought onsite and installed in 20 seconds.

[00:53:06] Eric Goranson: was, especially on a commercial job site. Yeah. That's usually where you see the lowest quality craftsmanship, not the highest.

[00:53:39] Nick Schiffer: All the interior doors are already pre-done and pre-made pre-case on one side and pre-K, like, and yeah. Okay. You immediately think, oh yeah, but pre-case, like that's the, the crap you see at Home Depot. It's like, you know, well, not necessarily, not necessarily like it could be at a higher quality just because Yeah.

[00:54:13] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And you and I could sit here in 20 minutes and figure

[00:54:16] Nick Schiffer: Yeah. And that's the thing is like, we are so in, in this industry, we're so reactive. So we're always like facing the, the, the, the problem that's right in front of us where, you know, We need to be thinking about bigger picture. We need to be thinking about, you know, how do we do something faster? And I'm gonna use this example, I've been using it a lot, but it's, you know, this whole hurricane down in Florida, you know mm-hmm.

[00:55:01] Nick Schiffer: Because they wanted to. Yeah, they

[00:55:13] Nick Schiffer: But, but absolutely accurate. But beyond that, it was the fact that they wanted to get it done seven days.

[00:55:36] Nick Schiffer: I'm like, that's not true. It is not true. A hundred percent. And you, I, and you can't sit here and tell me that we can't build this house in 18 months. You have to come to me. If you came to me and said, Hey, I'll build this house in 18 months, but it's gonna cost you another 50 grand because I need to, you know, pay, pay, you know, X amount of more people to show up, right.

[00:56:15] Nick Schiffer: The extreme Home Makeover move and listen. Yeah. I mean, listen, I know that there was problems with those homes, but the point is, the point is there's a way to do it. Yeah. Whether it's right or wrong is we can determine that once we figure out, like how do we get to that end result? Yeah. And if it, and if, and for us it's quality first and then price and, and schedule are, are, are organized in the second and third spot.

[00:57:01] Nick Schiffer: We have a thousand people on the job site and now everyone's working inefficiently. Okay. Yeah. Well that, that, that doesn't make sense. What does, yeah. Could we fabricate the house and offsite and then bring it on, you know, in a helicopter and drop it in place and it costs Sure. 7 million to helicopter.

[00:57:39] Nick Schiffer: It's like, you know, I'll say, oh, why don't we, you know, do this, that, that and the other thing. And they're like, you can't do that. I'm like, well what if, you know, what if you had a piece of hardware that did this and like the door swung that way and then it did this? And they're like, yeah, but that hardware doesn't exist.

[00:58:17] Nick Schiffer: Yeah. Can we make, can we make a hundred thousand units and sell? Yeah. Like it's you, you know, and this is, you know, this is where I get really excited and why I like the position I'm in with my, my teams now is that I'm the one that constantly is like, Walk. I, I, you gotta prove that you can't do this because like, I get that there's some, if it's money, okay.

[00:58:42] Eric Goranson: project I had, uh, geez, this was 15 years ago. It was Bill Gates' father's house. Now we went in, it was the trust and I mean, this was probably the craziest job site measure. I walked in with the, with the remodeler, and I'm the cabinet guy. Hmm. We walk in, there's armed guards.

[00:59:18] Eric Goranson: Mm-hmm. And I'm like, all right man. Um, are you gonna give us some time to spool up or is this like starting tomorrow? What's, you know, what's, what's, when's this, what's the start date on thing? He goes, oh, start date. It'll be in a month. . So in 60 days from today, this kitchen have to be done. Yeah. So I get the measurements, get the drawings, go back and head over to the CEO of the cabinet company.

[00:59:52] Nick Schiffer: always well throw price at it. Well, well, you know, I'd have to call this guy and see if I can delay his kitchen then call him.

[00:59:59] Eric Goranson: what's it, [01:00:00] how many guys wanna work late? So they have money for the holidays, right? Mm-hmm. . Right? What's it gonna cost to, you know, overtime? 10 hours? Everybody,

[01:00:19] Nick Schiffer: We need to be more creative with the constraints that were, that, that are put on us in construction. You know, I, I truthfully, as a builder want to get to a point where I can look at a client and guarantee my pro, my, my budget and guarantee my schedule and, you know, and I say that year after year and I've never been able to do it.

[01:00:56] Nick Schiffer: I wanna guarantee it because I know that we can, we can execute at a high [01:01:00] level. Yes. Like, I mean, like, you know, like military, like yeah, we come in, we have a process, we follow the process. We, we, and, and that's, and that takes, you know, from day zero to day 700, I mean, it's gonna be every step of the way, you know, has been figured out.

[01:01:23] Eric Goranson: Amen brother. Man. Where is this hour gone, man,

[01:01:38] Eric Goranson: Yeah. You and me both. You and me both. What are we not hit on today, brother? Anything else you

[01:01:56] Nick Schiffer: Um, super excited about just the opportunity [01:02:00] to expand that, um, motif Media, who has been producing all of our content from video, uh, as well as our, uh, the Modern Craftsman podcast. Yep. Uh, and of course, the podcast, I mean, it, it's been this labor of love for five or six years now and, you know, we are getting to a point where we're restructuring a little bit, uh, and getting Yeah.

[01:02:40] Eric Goranson: find this podcast? Nick?

[01:02:47] Nick Schiffer: Um, we're, we are actually launched on YouTube. Okay. Uh, so we're gonna be sharing all of our, all of them on YouTube and yeah. Any, any, any podcast platform.

[01:02:59] Nick Schiffer: do it [01:03:00] again. Yeah, man, I appreciate you. All

[01:03:05] Eric Goranson: This is great. You're listening to Around the House,