If you've ever brought home a rescue dog and felt like you were failing — this episode is for you.

Rachel Rodgers is a registered clinical animal behaviourist, founder of Nose to Trail, and a specialist in separation anxiety with a background spanning over 15 years in UK rescue centres including Dogs Trust and the RSPCA. In this episode, she and host Nathan Dunleavy have an honest, warm, and deeply practical conversation about why rescue dogs are more prone to SA, what the early signs really look like, and why so many cases go unrecognised or get made worse with the wrong approach. If you're navigating separation anxiety with a rescue dog, this is the episode to share.

In this episode:

✅ Why rescue dogs are more vulnerable to separation anxiety and what's really going on emotionally when a dog has been rehomed

✅ The early warning signs of SA that most new adopters miss (including one that looks like a toilet training problem)

✅ How pain and underlying health issues can masquerade as separation anxiety and why a vet referral matters more than you think

✅ What the settling-in period should actually look like, and why "just leave them to cry it out" can make things significantly worse

✅ How to gently build independence without causing stress from day one

✅ Why working with a certified separation anxiety professional or clinical animal behaviourist is so important, and how to tell the difference

✅ How to manage caregiver fatigue and find real support when you're struggling

Key takeaways:

• Separation anxiety in rescue dogs often has roots in broken attachment, kennel stress, and unknown history. It's not a training failure; it's an emotional response
• Subtle signs like not eating, pacing, or toileting only when you're apart can be easy to miss without a camera, but they matter
• Before starting any separation programme, a thorough vet check is essential; pain is a common and overlooked driver of SA
• Caregiver fatigue is real. Building a support network of people your dog trusts isn't a luxury, it's part of the treatment plan

🐾 Subscribe to The Yappy Hour for more conversations that help you understand, connect with, and care for your dog.

🐕 Find ethical and qualified pet professionals near you at Yappily.co.uk

Welcome to the Yappy Hour, powered by

Yappily, the podcast for dog lovers

2

who want to better understand and

connect with their canine companions.

3

I'm your host Nathan Dunleavy,

and today's episode is all about

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rescue dogs and separation anxiety.

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A topic close to my heart, both

personally and professionally.

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Joining me is Rachel Rodgers, founder

of Nose to Trail, an experienced

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trainer behaviourist who works closely

with rescue dogs and their humans to

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rebuild trust, confidence, and calm.

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If you've ever brought home a rescue

dog who couldn't settle when you've

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left the room, or you are supporting

one now, this conversation will help

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you feel less alone and more empowered.

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So grab a cup of tea.

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Settle in and let's get started.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Back

to the Yappy Hour, powered by Yappily.

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I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy,

and I'm so excited to bring you

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another episode of The Yappy Hour.

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Today joining me, we have Rachel

Rodgers from Nose to Trail.

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Rachel, so excited to have you here.

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Welcome to the Yappy Hour.

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How are you doing?

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: I'm great.

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Thank you.

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Thanks so much for having me on.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

You are most welcome.

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So we are gonna be diving into separation

anxiety and rescue dogs today and how

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it specifically affects rescue dogs.

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We're gonna be looking into sort of

like sa and this is really exciting

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because we do have a few people coming

on talking about sa but this is our

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first conversation and episode today

about SA because I was due to have

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one the other day, but fortunately the

lady her dog was being put to sleep.

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So we've

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: Oh.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

So this is our first.

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Like, I've been doing these since January.

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This is our first episode about sa and I

love sa, I've got my own SA dog and I'm a

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certified SA pro, pro behaviour consultant

with one of Julie Na Smith's cohort.

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And so yeah, it's a really interesting

subject because like I said, like

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my own essay dog and I just, and

I used to do some essay work and I

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just found it, you know, I found it

really interesting, rewarding work.

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So, Rachel, enough about me.

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Could you start by sharing a bit

about your work with rescue dogs

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and how SA separation anxiety

became such a key focus for you?

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah,

so my kind of entire working

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career really started in rescue.

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So I spent the first 10 years, I'm sure

how old I am now, working for some of

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the largest rehome in centers in the uk.

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So I was working for Dogs Trust,

I was working for the RSPC,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: okay.

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: background

is very much kind of rescue based.

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Thanks to Boris, I kind of had to adapt

very quickly because I actually went

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self-employed 10 days before we were

put into the first covid lockdown.

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Not in hindsight the greatest timing

to leave a employed job in rescue

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and decide to set up on my own.

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But it meant that I had to

kind of a deep dive into using

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technology because we all had to.

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And then just like everybody else

really, we had the kind of pandemic puppy

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boom, and all these dogs weren't really

exposed to other people and were never

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left, 'cause none of us could leave.

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And so more of my client base started

to be dogs who had separation issues.

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So it just kind of

became naturally a thing.

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I ended up niching down into, and I

did the Julie Naismith course as well.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yes.

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: Another one of

hers who's kind of flying the flag for

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the be right back kind of way of training.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: love

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Rachel - Nose to Trail:

It's, it's odd, isn't it?

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And the other thing that kind of, I

almost in a way got shoehorned to it

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because loads of trainers in my local

area will not touch separation cases.

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I dunno why everyone's got this

burning desire to dogs and that's what

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they want is the aggression cases.

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But the amount,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

aggression cases.

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Rachel - Nose to Trail:

it's weird, isn't it?

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And then I've got all these clients coming

to me going, I've got a dog who can't be

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left home alone, but no one will help me.

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Bizarre.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: It is

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah.

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So I, that is most of my

workload and I, other than pet

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trailing is now separation stuff.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, PET training.

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So we might have to touch on that

because I dunno much about that,

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but yeah, that's similar to me.

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So I had a dog walking business and

I thought I was busy before lockdown.

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And then obviously bars happened

and the pandemic, and then I had

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to shut my business for two weeks

and I was like, oh my God, because

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I've got a really strong work ethic.

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I'm always working.

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I'm like, God, what do I do?

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So then I started signing up

for all these courses and signed

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up for Julie Na Smith's course.

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And I thought, oh, this is a good

thing because all these people

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are getting dogs, which is great.

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They're home, but then they're

gonna start going back to work

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and these dogs are not gonna cope.

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So I thought, right now's the

time to train as an essay.

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Trainer, my own dog started exhibiting

like essay tendencies and my husband

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blames like the fact that he was

for so long and obviously he was

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at home and he was quite young.

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So yeah.

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And then I had to slowly rebuild my dog

walking business again and we were allowed

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to work for key workers and the elderly.

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And then I started branching out into

training and then essay specifically.

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But yeah, the pandemic

had a lot to answer for.

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Do you know, the funny thing was I

used to be part of quite a lot of

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networking groups and they were all

in there going, oh, you must pivot,

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you must take your business online.

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And I was like, well, I can't walk

bloody dogs online, but I could do some

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dog training essay work, obviously,

'cause Julie's method's all done online.

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I can do sa but I can't bloody walk dogs

online, so I can't pivot in that sense.

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So I had to retrain.

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And you are right, like a lot of the

trainers and behaviourists around here.

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Just didn't want to do, don't

like doing sa because I think

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like it's a lot involved and

there's, it's not a quick fix.

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: Think as well,

it's not the same as most dog training.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yes.

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: someone who's

spent, you know, over 15 years training

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dogs and being a clinical animal

behaviourist, it's not the same methods.

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Like we're not doing the same stuff day to

day as you are with a reactivity case and.

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I think that puts a lot of people

off and I do think the tech

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side puts a lot of trainers and

behaviourists doing it as well.

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Whereas I'm maybe a bit of a geek

and before I did Julie's stuff, I did

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everything on Excel and I used to love

producing graphs for my clients of

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like, here's how long your dog's been

behind the door and here's how long

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you've been out the house in total.

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And I love doing it manually.

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The fact now we have an app that does

it and I numbers in and create equations

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on to make it do it for me is lovely.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, me and Excel do not get on.

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But no, the, the app is great.

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I last worked with a client in

December actually, and she went

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on to then use the app herself,

but the app is fan fascinating.

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You know, and and like I was saying,

like a lot, a lot of 'em around here,

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the trainers and rs didn't want to do

SA but then they were happy to take

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the reactivity and aggression stuff and

I was like, I don't like that stuff.

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You can take it.

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So yeah, I find sa fascinating.

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I, I like, there's a lot of work

involved, but I like helping

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the owners and, and their dogs.

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So.

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so moving on to our next question.

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So why do you think separation anxiety

is so prevalent in rescue dogs?

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Rachel.

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Rachel - Nose to Trail:

It's difficult, isn't it?

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Because I think it's probably

more prevalent in every dog if

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we look at the dog population as

a whole than perhaps we realize.

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And I think maybe we're seeing more

of that now because we're all better

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with tech and loads more of us have

dog cameras or ring doorbells or

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whatever to find out that our dog

isn't coping when we're not there.

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But it's that kind of chicken

and egg thing, isn't it?

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Is have they got separation issues

because they're a rescue dog or is the

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reason they were rehomed in the first

place because they couldn't be left And

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actually that's why they were given up.

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And while sometimes we

get that information.

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I don't, and this sounds really

cynical, but I don't think

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perhaps everybody is honest.

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And I have been an animal center

manager and I've run rescue kennels.

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I don't think people are always

honest when they give a dog up.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: think a lot of

that is 'cause the stigma isn't there

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if, like, if you are saying I can't keep

this dog anymore, and you've reached

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that decision as a household or as a

family, it's a horrible position to be in.

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But I think it's.

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I wonder if perhaps there is an

element of, it's easier to say the dog

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has done something particularly bad.

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For example, it bit our cat, so it can't

stay in the house anymore or something

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like that than to go, I just can't cope

with the fact my life is being impacted

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and I can't go to my friend's wedding.

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I can't go to the gym.

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I can't go to the cinema

with the girls anymore.

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I can't do it.

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Like, I think that's more,

it comes across more selfish.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: maybe don't

admit that separation is a part

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of the reason they re-home a dog.

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It's obviously not always the case,

but I do think there's an aspect of,

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we're not necessarily always told.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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And that's like, 'cause you

won't, like, you only get told

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certain things, don't you?

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Like, you know, you are led by what the

pet parent, guardian owner tells you.

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So they're not always

forthcoming with information.

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So it must be even harder from a rescue

environment 'cause you, you are limited

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to what information you may be given.

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And it, I mean, I, I

don't, I, I dunno like.

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I feel sad admitting this sometimes,

but I mean, in the early days with

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Bailey, my SA dog, I, we did think maybe

we weren't in the right home for him.

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But he's got chronic back pain as well.

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So there's, that's kind of in, in the mix.

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And he resource guards.

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But I said like he wouldn't have been

able to go to like a normal home that

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weren't sort of dog savvy like me.

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Least I've got the, the, the

experience and the, you know, the,

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the, the certifications behind me

and I know a bit about it, that

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he's probably in the best home we've

got a Multid dog household as well.

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It made it, it makes it, you know,

it's a whole control management.

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So there was a fleeting moment where

I said, oh God, maybe he would be

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better someone else, but there's no

way I could part part of him now.

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Like he's, he's like our

special little boy in that.

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And, but yeah, like, it is tough.

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It is really tough.

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: It is.

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And I think there's no, there's absolutely

no judgment on my end of, if someone

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comes to the decision that they can't

cope with a dog who has separation

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issues, and in some cases it, it may

well be that the kindest thing to do

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for that dog is to look for a home where

someone perhaps can be around a bit more.

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'cause like lifestyle just,

just plays a huge part in that.

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But in terms of kind of your original

question of like, is a rescue dog, is

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there a reason they've got it more?

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You know, is it more

prevalent in that population?

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Perhaps an aspect of it is the

fact that those previous bonds, and

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we know they form attachments and

attachments styles the way humans do,

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like that is disrupted and broken.

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If you end up in a rehoming

center for whatever.

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Reason, you know, whatever reason,

whether it's human, whether it's dog

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related, that they've ended up there

like that, that's traumatic for the dog.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: so they are

gonna struggle more when they now

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form a new attachment with someone.

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It's probably not gonna be the

most secure attachment, is it?

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When they've been in their,

you know, potentially in

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their mind, abandoned before.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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And

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: difficult.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that

trauma sort of sticks with them as well.

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And they could be thinking, oh,

I'm gonna get abandoned again.

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And obviously they can take a

while to decompress as well.

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So there's a lot at play.

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Okay.

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Brilliant.

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So moving on to our next section.

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So it's all around why rescue dogs are,

are more prone to sa So we might, you

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know, we've probably touched on it a

little bit here, but what make, what

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might make a rescue dog more vulnerable

to developing separation related issues?

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Rachel?

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah,

so I mean, we've touched on

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the first one, haven't we?

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That kind of, the bonds have already

been broken and they've been left and

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had that traumatic experience before.

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The other thing I think is, and

this is no disrespect to rescue

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centers whatsoever, but I.

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It is never gonna be the same

environment as being in a loving home.

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It's just not like, and if we think

about the number of dogs in a kennels

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compared to the number of staff that

they have and the amount of human

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interaction that they get during

that stay, it's limited, isn't it?

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The staff aren't there 24 7.

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They're not with the dogs for very long

each day 'cause they physically can't be.

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And then at, let's say five o'clock, the

team go home, the dogs stay in the kennel.

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They don't see anyone else till eight,

nine o'clock the following morning.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: actually,

that can play a big role in those.

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Those cases, can't it?

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Because those dogs, they start

to, then when they do get back to

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having interaction with the human,

they don't want to go back to that.

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I don't want to be left for 10, 15 hours.

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I can't cope with that.

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I need, I need some social companionship.

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And maybe in kennels they might have,

you know, I think of the local kennels

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near me, they quite often, the number

of dogs they have is just so high at

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the minute the dogs are sharing kennels.

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So you know, me and you both though,

as people who work on separation

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cases, a second dog doesn't fix a dog

with a separation anxiety problem.

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But there is, for some of those

dogs, at least a companion there,

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they're not entirely on their own.

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They're not socially isolated.

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There is another dog with them,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: then if

they go to a house, another solo

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dog in the home, they don't even

have another dog for a company.

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There is potentially nothing and

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: really isolated.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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I didn't, do you know what I'm a bit,

no, I didn't really know that about

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in rescue places that once everyone

goes home at five, is there no one

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there in the evening to check on

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: It depends.

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Yeah, it depends on the kennels.

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So most places will have, you have

to have someone on site, you know,

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from like a security viewpoint.

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There's no one going into the kennels

on a night shift with the dogs at like

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eight o'clock to give them a bone and

a pet on the head and say night, night.

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You know?

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Like it isn't like at home where you would

say night, see you in the morning and

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give them a little biscuit before bed.

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No, just staff to go home, don't they?

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They've probably got their

own dogs to walk, their own

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families to go and look after.

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And so other than the manager

or whoever's on the night shift,

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depending on which, you know, rescue

you're with, there's no one there,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: no one else.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

do you have you seen there's a

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certain breed that are more affected

by separation related behaviours?

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Rachel - Nose to Trail:

It's interesting, isn't it?

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Because I know like I got asked this

previously and so like the research

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suggests golden retrievers, but then in

the 12 years I've seen separation cases.

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I've never seen a golden retriever

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I,

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: touch point.

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I'm probably gonna get an influx of them

now, but I've never had one as a client.

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Now I see.

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Yeah.

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But I see a lot of cockapoos and sausage.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mine

was cock beagles and sausage dogs.

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: and

it's interesting, isn't it?

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'cause perhaps there is a

genetic aspect and we don't have

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enough scientific research yet.

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But I see an awful lot of them.

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But then I also do wonder if

there's just an awful lot of those

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in my local area anyway, because

we are near a, a cockapoo breeder,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

All right.

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Rachel - Nose to Trail:

So I get a lot of them.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: but also

I get a lot of sausage dogs and I

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think that in part could be because

I work, like I do the, I'm the head

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of training for Napa Pet Insurance

321

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yes,

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: then

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

see that.

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: a sausage

dog, and so they obviously have a

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lot of sausage dogs on the books.

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So I probably, you know,

it's one of those things.

327

Is it, is it that I attract them as

clients or is it just there is more

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of them with a separation issue?

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I don't know.

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I don't think we can prove it yet.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: And

332

Mentioned obviously the risky

center near you is quite for,

333

is, is that what we're seeing?

334

I mean, again, I'm a bit naive to it,

but there obviously I keep seeing like

335

all these rescues coming from abroad

and people fostering them and stuff.

336

But are our

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: yeah,

338

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

rescue centers very full

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: certainly the ones

near us are and I don't, it's difficult

340

because I, my gut feeling is that a lot of

that is to do with finances at the minute,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: and

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Rachel - Nose to Trail: so.

343

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

people are finding it tough?

344

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah, I, I mean,

as someone who's self-employed, but it is,

345

isn't it, it's hard going at the minute.

346

And we're seeing that a lot in

terms of like uptake of services.

347

I think a lot more people in terms of

separation cases recently are turning

348

to like free support, like the app,

like, you know the podcast episodes

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Julie's done or the Facebook group

and, and things like that because they

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can't afford to have a full behaviour

consult and maybe they don't even have

351

pet insurance 'cause they can't afford

the pet insurance and things now.

352

So I think I, I do think sadly dogs are

one of the first things where people,

353

if they have to cut money back, they're

gonna cut money back on it if they can.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

355

Rachel - Nose to Trail: I do think,

unfortunately that is, you know,

356

I know looking at the intake forms

for the dogs, like sadly financial

357

reasons are, is becoming very apparent.

358

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right.

359

And sorry, I didn't check.

360

Where are you based then?

361

Rachel?

362

You

363

Rachel - Nose to Trail: So I'm on the

shop for Cheshire border, so I'm gonna.

364

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Chop right.

365

Okay.

366

Rachel - Nose to Trail: so I'm weird.

367

I've got a structure postcode, but I pay

council tax to Cheshire, so it's very odd.

368

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Well

we used to live up in Manchester for a

369

bit and in Lancaster that way, but yeah.

370

God, that's interesting.

371

I wondered whether it's like a, like down

south, like we've obviously got and stuff.

372

I just wondered whether there was

more, you know, in rescue up that,

373

you know, where you are compared

to where we are, but, brilliant.

374

So there red flags, new adopters

should look for even in the early

375

inverted commas honeymoon period.

376

Rachel - Nose to Trail: I think there is,

yeah, I think it's difficult, isn't it?

377

Because there are things that if when

you work with separation cases all the

378

time, you know that they mean the dog

potentially has a separation problem.

379

But actually I had a message on TikTok

just yesterday and I thought this is

380

exactly what we're gonna be talking about.

381

So I've been doing videos

about toilet training.

382

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

383

Rachel - Nose to Trail: I've

got a 12 week old puppy, so

384

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: week.

385

Rachel - Nose to Trail: right in my mind

386

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: What

387

Rachel - Nose to Trail: toilet train.

388

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I meant to ask you what breed.

389

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Oh,

she's a little border terrier,

390

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, okay.

391

I love,

392

Rachel - Nose to Trail: so

she's full of personality.

393

But she maybe is struggling a little

bit on the toilet training front.

394

So it is, it is something that,

like I, I'm going through, so I

395

was posting a lot about that, you

know, and it's, it's not enjoyable.

396

It's not, and it, when you get

a rescue dog, regardless of age,

397

some of them potentially aren't

gonna be clean in the house.

398

But it was interesting.

399

So this lady said, I don't understand.

400

I've had my dog for two years and

I can go out and be fine, could be

401

upstairs having a shower for 40 minutes,

but I come down every morning and

402

overnight he's gone to the toilet.

403

And I thought, but if your dog can

do it in the day when you are there.

404

I'm not convinced this is

purely a toilet training issue.

405

I think we've actually got a

separation issue that actually, you

406

know, this person's gonna bed at

say 10 o'clock at night, getting

407

up at eight o'clock in the morning.

408

That dog's on, its on its own.

409

Albeit you're in the same

house for quite a long time.

410

So actually I think if the dog is

doing toilet training fine in the

411

daytime, but then is going to the

toilet when you're upstairs at night

412

and you're away from them and you're

not in the same room, then that can

413

be a bit of a red flag that actually

we've got a separation issue already.

414

And it's not all, you know, because

it's not that they can't physically

415

hold their bladder that long.

416

'cause if they can do it in the daytime,

I, you know, and that, yes, okay,

417

there can be rare cases where there's

something medically going on, but I

418

do think if when you are separated and

you are upstairs or you've gone for a

419

shower and you come back and they've gone

to the toilet, that's an being apart.

420

So I think toileting can sometimes

be one that we maybe don't think

421

of particularly with a rescue dog,

but we can chalk it up as a little

422

red flag as one to keep an eye on.

423

The other one I think is, is the

vocalization side of things as well.

424

Like if you close a door and they're

starting to cry, potentially even

425

scratch, we've gotta be aware of that

426

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

427

Rachel - Nose to Trail: I think

there's so much bad advice online,

428

isn't there where people will go,

oh, you just gotta leave them.

429

Just leave them and they'll be quiet.

430

Leave them to try it out.

431

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

So old school.

432

That is so outta

433

Rachel - Nose to Trail: It's,

but people have said it to me,

434

even knowing what I do for a job.

435

I'm getting people telling me to do

it with a puff and I'm like, I've

436

absolutely not going to take that advice.

437

Thank you.

438

I will be going downstairs

and dealing with the puppy,

439

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

You wouldn't let

440

Rachel - Nose to Trail: but

441

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

you wouldn't let your kid

442

quiet out there with you.

443

I don't have kids, but I

444

Rachel - Nose to Trail: I

dunno, I don't have kids either,

445

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

but I just don't

446

Rachel - Nose to Trail: so,

447

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

a kid quiet out, so.

448

Rachel - Nose to Trail: no, I, I wouldn't

have thought so now, but you know, it's,

449

I think vocalizations are, again, it's.

450

One we need to be aware

of and we need to be.

451

For me, the first thing I did when I

got a dog, whether it was my rescue or

452

whether it was the new puppy, 'cause

she's the first puppy I've had in a

453

very long time, I've always rescued

454

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh,

455

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Is, yeah.

456

Is get a camera and

have the camera on them.

457

And even when, when I first got pebbles

and I was going upstairs to come in the

458

office to do something like this, I'm

there on the ring camera watching her.

459

Is she all right?

460

Is she okay?

461

Check in to see, because I'm just so

conscious that I didn't want her sat

462

in her little crate in the kitchen

463

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

464

Rachel - Nose to Trail: upset and

started to do things that might

465

eventually become a bigger problem.

466

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

467

You forget how hard work it

is of a puppy, don't you?

468

I know I

469

Rachel - Nose to Trail: It's horrible.

470

It's absolutely horrible.

471

I'm deep within my puppy blues, Nathan.

472

Deep within,

473

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

but I love that you've rescued and so

474

what was the rationale behind a puppy?

475

Now Rachel?

476

Sorry I've

477

Rachel - Nose to Trail: yeah.

478

So I know.

479

Sorry.

480

Take you off on a tangent.

481

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I, no, I love her

482

Rachel - Nose to Trail: My business

name nose to Trail is because I do

483

this pet trailing and the man trailing.

484

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

business name.

485

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah.

486

So it's, it's a, you know, play on nose

to tail, but it's trail because we do

487

pet trailing and I do pet trailing or

have been for the last kind of six years

488

with my rescue dog from Portugal who

was a street dog in the stray pound who

489

had two days left to live, who came over

and ended up is, you know, it's magic.

490

He's actually been nominated for

a BBC award for like, is making

491

a difference, which is lovely.

492

We found that out this morning.

493

So I'm very proud dog mom at the

minute because he has reunited missing

494

dogs with their families again.

495

So he goes off and follows the trail

and, and find these missing dogs.

496

So he is 10, he needs to retire and I've

been looking for the last kind of two

497

years for another dog, a third dog to

be that crazy dog lady and have three to

498

come into our family and become my next.

499

Potential working dog.

500

But because I'm a woman of a

certain age, there's a lot of rescue

501

centers who wouldn't rehome to me

because quote, you might change your

502

mind and you might have a child,

503

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, okay.

504

Rachel - Nose to Trail: I'll not

be changing my mind and will not

505

be having a child anytime soon.

506

But that was a reason they

wouldn't give me a dog.

507

There was actually a border terrier

puppy that had separation issues.

508

They wanted it to go to a home with

another small dog and someone who

509

had experience of separation issues.

510

So I was like, ideal.

511

Perfect.

512

Applied.

513

They wouldn't let me have

her because I won't raw feed.

514

And so I hit this wall so many times

trying to rehome and it, you know,

515

it's been a really hard decision

for me 'cause it's going against

516

all my ethics, getting a puppy.

517

But in the end I came across 'cause

one of my clients was getting

518

one of them this lovely litter.

519

Mom and dad, a brilliant

temperament are both healthy.

520

They were raised in a lovely environment.

521

And I thought, you know what?

522

It's gonna be the right size to fit in

with my two small dogs that I've got.

523

It's gonna weigh about the same.

524

I've had Border Terriers before.

525

It's clearly just meant to be.

526

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

527

Rachel - Nose to Trail: here we are, four

weeks in with Pebbles, the border Territ.

528

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: pebbles.

529

Oh, I love it.

530

And yeah, border Terror is,

they're full of character, aren't

531

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah.

532

Yeah.

533

Maybe a bit too much character.

534

The 13 and the 10-year-old.

535

Seem to think.

536

But

537

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, okay.

538

I love that though.

539

Brilliant.

540

So moving on to our next question then.

541

So we've sort of touched on it a little

bit, but what role does the dog's previous

542

history play and what doesn't it tell us?

543

Rachel - Nose to Trail: yeah, I think

it varies massively from dog to dog.

544

But when we're specifically thinking

about rescue dogs, we probably just

545

don't know the full history of the dog.

546

I wish they could tell us.

547

I really do.

548

But sadly we just don't know.

549

And actually I've had rescue dogs.

550

Who've had separation issues that I've

worked with where we've been able to

551

find, like triggering incidents that

have caused their separation issues.

552

So one of them actually was a colleague

who was given up, working colleague,

553

who was in a family home who actually

went into the Rehoming Center because

554

he was rounding up the children.

555

So not separation related,

was herding the kids.

556

We shouldn't laugh, but genuinely did

herd them up into the garden shed.

557

So they, I know you shouldn't laugh,

but he blessed his little soul.

558

He needed a working job.

559

He needed to the right home.

560

Yeah.

561

And he was from a farm, you know, he

wasn't, you know, from a pet family.

562

He was from a working farm in Wales.

563

And he ended up in the kennels.

564

And really sadly, while he was in

the kennels, we had a massive storm

565

the other year, a huge storm, and

the roof of the kennels collapsed

566

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, bloody,

567

Rachel - Nose to Trail: he was

in there on his own at night.

568

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: oh,

569

Rachel - Nose to Trail: that seems

to have been for him this isolated

570

incident where now when he is left,

he's panicking and I do think it's

571

because he's had that horrific

experience whilst he was on his own.

572

And normally we don't have such

detailed history of the dog, we

573

don't know what's happened like that.

574

But for him we can pin

it right back to that.

575

And sadly for him, he's now got

phobias for like storm weather as

576

well because it was all interlinked.

577

So like really heavy rain

that also triggers him.

578

And there's a lot, bless

him, a lot to work on.

579

But we, history is gonna play a role,

but what we can't change the past.

580

So actually as much as it would sometimes

be helpful to know, we've just gotta

581

focus on, on the future and how we

work with that dog moving forward.

582

And I think you'll be well aware

of this, you know, as someone who's

583

worked on separation cases that.

584

The most important thing

really is for those dogs.

585

They're not left again for any

longer than they spoke with,

586

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

587

Rachel - Nose to Trail: that is what makes

them such hard cases to work through.

588

'cause the level investment from

the guardian or the owner or the

589

adopter, whoever's taken this pet

on whatever you wanna call them,

590

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

591

Rachel - Nose to Trail: but high

like they have to be willing to not

592

leave that dog if the dog can't cope

593

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

594

Rachel - Nose to Trail: being left.

595

And that's a lot to ask of someone,

596

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

597

Rachel - Nose to Trail: is why both

of us enjoy them so much as a case

598

because you're helping not only

the dog but the human aren't you?

599

And the

600

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I, I,

601

Rachel - Nose to Trail: back and the

dog is then a confident, happy dog

602

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah,

603

Rachel - Nose to Trail: So

604

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I

605

Rachel - Nose to Trail: like for

us it's really rewarding, isn't it?

606

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

you just get so invested, don't you?

607

I feel,

608

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah.

609

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: right.

610

Okay.

611

And I just want to quickly touch back

on your point where you've, just going

612

back to the previous where we said about

that they wouldn't let you have the

613

dog because you may have children and I

don't wanna speak Ill health of UK risk,

614

but do you think that's why loads of

people are adopting from abroad because

615

it's so hard to get adopt in the uk?

616

That's what I'm

617

Rachel - Nose to Trail:

Yeah, hundred percent.

618

Because I, the local kennels

to me is an overseas rescue.

619

They try primarily take Romanian

rescues and Bosnian rescues

620

and bring them into the uk.

621

And when I speak to people who adopt

dogs from there, they tell me time

622

and time again that the main rescues

in the UK wouldn't give them a dog.

623

So they took a dog from overseas

when it wouldn't necessarily

624

have been their first choice.

625

For some people it is, they

really want to help an overseas

626

rescue, but for some people it's

because they really want a rescue.

627

They don't wanna buy a

dog or go to a breeder.

628

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm.

629

Rachel - Nose to Trail: the only

rescues they can get to are these

630

little less known rescues that

maybe don't have as much red tape

631

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

632

Rachel - Nose to Trail: who

they will let adopt a dog.

633

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

And just your point on Romanians,

634

they come with a whole raft of.

635

Issues.

636

Sometimes we work with a lot of, 'cause

with the dog walk inside the business.

637

Like one of the girls that works

with me, her, she, she does a lot of

638

work with like the Romanian rescues,

building up like that trust and bond.

639

But are absolutely fine.

640

But then some they do

come with a lot of, like,

641

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah,

642

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I,

a lot of trauma, a lot of, I don't

643

wanna say like issues, but they do

come with a lot of stuff to unpack.

644

Rachel - Nose to Trail:

very different type of dog.

645

Typically, I think, to an, A dog

who's been born in the UK is from

646

the uk, has lived in a home and then

ended up in a rescue, a dog from

647

the streets in an environment, which

is so completely different to ours.

648

And what they've gone through

is so completely different.

649

I think to a lot of the UK rescues,

they are, it is very, very different.

650

It is, and I, I, I think

sadly, there's quite a lot of

651

judgment and prejudice against.

652

Those rescues, and a lot of people have

very strong beliefs as to whether or

653

not we should have adopted from abroad

and should we be allowing these dogs

654

in the country and all of these things,

which I think, you know, you could have

655

a whole other podcast episode on those.

656

But I think at the end of the day, to me,

the way I see it, and you know, I have an

657

overseas street dog, so I'd be very hypo

hypocritical to judge anybody, but they're

658

in this country, they're in a home.

659

There is absolutely no point in

being unpleasant or judgmental

660

towards the people who've adopted

those dogs, particularly if they've

661

reached out to you to help for help.

662

Like the dogs that deserve help.

663

Oh yeah, because I've got a couple of

Romanian rescues who we're actually

664

seeing for reactivity cases, and

they actually only applied for one.

665

But when the dog appeared,

they dropped two dogs off.

666

And this is just in case anybody

works out which rescue is near me.

667

It's not that rescue, it's

a totally different rescue.

668

I can't even remember the name of

the rescue, but they just dropped

669

two off and they were like, oh,

these two get on really well, so

670

actually you're gonna have two.

671

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh,

672

Rachel - Nose to Trail: so they

left, they left this couple with

673

two adolescent shepherd type big

dogs and said, oh yeah, but you

674

can't take them out for three weeks.

675

Just leave them in their crates.

676

They'll be fine.

677

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh

678

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Lo and

behold, they have a whole heap

679

of behavioural issues and these

poor people are really struggling

680

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I'm

681

Rachel - Nose to Trail: and

there's no rescue backup, there's

682

no support for these dogs.

683

And so they took them to the vets

because they were like, we're struggling.

684

We need help.

685

And the first vet that they went

to said, well, you shouldn't have

686

adopted from abroad should you.

687

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, bloody.

688

How?

689

Rachel - Nose to Trail: And so I get

this phone call last Christmas from these

690

people, you know, in floods of tears

because even the vet won't help them.

691

We don't know who to turn to.

692

We dunno what to do.

693

We're scared in our own home.

694

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh.

695

Rachel - Nose to Trail: And you just,

how would that help anybody, even if

696

that's your personal opinion, that we

shouldn't be bringing dogs into the uk?

697

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh

698

Rachel - Nose to Trail: It is awful.

699

It didn't help anybody.

700

It really like, you know, it's so

sad and I think that's one of the

701

things that myself and I, you know,

I've got a team now of four rehab

702

trainers who work with me on cases

703

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh wow.

704

Rachel - Nose to Trail: all of them.

705

One of the things I'm so like,

it is our core thing is you

706

absolutely do not judge people.

707

You don't judge people for the problems

they are having with their dogs.

708

We are there to support,

we are there to listen.

709

We are there to help.

710

We are not there to make anybody feel

rubbish about what they're doing.

711

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

712

Rachel - Nose to Trail: not, just not.

713

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I don't, I don't think people are

714

really prepared how much work's

involved are they Sometimes.

715

'cause you just don't

know what you're getting.

716

Like that couple and it can be full on.

717

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Absolutely.

718

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right.

719

Lovely.

720

Moving on to our next section,

which is all about the settling in

721

period in early days in a new home.

722

What

723

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah.

724

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: be,

Rachel, your top recommendations for

725

helping a newly adopted dog settle

in those first few weeks, please?

726

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah.

727

So I think we need to be

prepared to do very little.

728

So all the things you normally do in your

life, you need to be prepared that you

729

are not doing those for a good few weeks.

730

And I'm not gonna lie, I have been

bored out of my mind the last few

731

weeks because I haven't been able to

go out and see clients face to face.

732

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right?

733

Rachel - Nose to Trail: been trapped in

the house with the puppy because I don't

734

want it to develop separation issues.

735

And actually, I feel like I

should start a petition online

736

for us to get like puppy leave

737

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

738

Rachel - Nose to Trail: dog leave

because you wouldn't have a new baby

739

and bring it home or adopt a child

and bring them home and then just

740

carry on as normal the next day.

741

But people seem to with dogs, so

they get a dog that they've maybe

742

seen two or three times and they

come home with it on the Saturday.

743

'cause they've driven to the

rescue center, brought it back,

744

had Saturday night to settle it in

Sunday to be with it, and then they

745

go to work for eight hours on the

Monday and think it's gonna be okay.

746

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: no.

747

Rachel - Nose to Trail: I really

think the best thing you can do is use

748

some of your annual leave and be off

749

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: take a

750

Rachel - Nose to Trail:

and be off with the job.

751

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, I've said that

752

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Not only you

know, for their sake, but also for yours.

753

Bond with them, you know, you just

made this commitment for 10, 15

754

years potentially with this living

thing that has come to depend on

755

you and it is dependent on you.

756

So enjoy it.

757

Get to bond with them,

758

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

759

Rachel - Nose to Trail: that time

with them and actually forming

760

that secure attachment with them.

761

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

762

Rachel - Nose to Trail: to prevent some

separation issues in most cases, you

763

know, with some dogs, unfortunately,

they're gonna have issues even if you

764

take that time off and it's gonna be

harder to go back to a normal life.

765

But I do think don't be

planning to go at the cinema.

766

You're not gonna be going necessarily to

the gym at six o'clock the next morning

767

like you've always used to, unless

there's multiple people in the house.

768

You know, if there's multiple people,

I do think it is on the whole easier,

769

unless the dog suddenly develops a hyper

attachment issue to one primary caregiver.

770

But that's rare, isn't it?

771

I mean, most of the time the dog

is scared of being on its own.

772

So if there's you and a partner, or you

and a housemate or whoever in this day and

773

age that you live with, then you can kind

of share the love and share the duties

774

and you can pop out and it's easier.

775

But I spend 90% of my time on my own, and

so I'm stuck and it's me and the dogs.

776

And so, you know, yesterday was

actually the first time I left

777

my puppy and went to the shops.

778

I've had her four weeks.

779

I finally built up last

night 'cause it's too hot.

780

I couldn't take her and

leave her in the car.

781

It's far too

782

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

783

Rachel - Nose to Trail: hot.

784

And I finally, I'm just, I've,

I've been flitting, we've been

785

doing lots of micro absences.

786

I've been spending time up here

in my office and going out into

787

the garden and doing stuff.

788

But finally drove away from the house

789

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh,

790

Rachel - Nose to Trail: I was there.

791

I got to the bottom of, before

you go onto like the main road,

792

'cause I've got a driveway.

793

I went down the driveway and I'm

like, yeah, a hundred percent.

794

Get to Sainsbury's, check the camera.

795

Or she's okay walking around Sainsbury's.

796

But fairly paying any

attention to what I'm buying.

797

Just checking the camera the whole time.

798

She was absolutely fine.

799

Didn't even notice when I got home.

800

Yeah, yeah.

801

Until I opened the door into the

kitchen where she was fast asleep.

802

Then I got her head up and, oh

yeah, hello, where have you been?

803

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: okay.

804

Rachel - Nose to Trail:

And I was so happy.

805

I was like, proud dog mom moment.

806

Really proud.

807

'cause she's absolutely fine.

808

But I have, for best part of

four weeks, she's gone everywhere

809

with me or I've not gone.

810

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

811

Rachel - Nose to Trail: and I think

people need, I know that probably sounds

812

unrealistic to most people, but it will

potentially make your life much easier

813

from a separation viewpoint if you can

prepare to be off during that time period.

814

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, I agree.

815

And I feel I've seen like now there's

adoption leave for humans, so we do need

816

something similar to if we adopt or a

817

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah,

when I'm so, be self-employed.

818

It's all right though, isn't it?

819

I just blocked off in my calendar and said

to people, I'll be working on Zoom only.

820

That's all I can do

until the puppy's ready.

821

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

822

Rachel - Nose to Trail: that's it.

823

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, brilliant.

824

It's exciting though.

825

So we've, we have spoke touches

just now, but should guardians leave

826

them to settle or be more hands-on,

what would be the balance there?

827

Rachel - Nose to Trail:

It is a balance, isn't it?

828

Because you can't micromanage

and watch them all the time.

829

You do need to start to develop a little

bit of kind of self settling and the

830

ability for them not to depend on you

all the time, but I also think we can

831

proactively be doing that as a choice.

832

So in terms of the training that we do, so

like I put my bin outside from day dot, so

833

every time I had a bit of rubbish in the

kitchen, I had to go outta the house to

834

put it in the bin, which meant I was gone.

835

But I was gone for like, what, 20 seconds

836

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

837

Rachel - Nose to Trail: back.

838

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

839

Rachel - Nose to Trail:

actually that flitting in and

840

out, in and out, in and out.

841

Whilst it may just seem

like a little thing.

842

Is a good thing and has probably

really helped and then you

843

can build that up for longer.

844

'cause I could go and faff in the garage

and then come back and it was fine.

845

Little things like that.

846

And also proactively teaching a settle.

847

So teaching them to be able

to relax and be with you but

848

not need attention from you

849

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

850

Rachel - Nose to Trail: is

letting themselves settle.

851

But equally, you are making that choice

to teach the dog that independent skill.

852

And I think we do need to do that, but I'm

certainly not buying into the old school.

853

Just leave them to cry out.

854

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No.

855

Rachel - Nose to Trail: not.

856

No.

857

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

more harm than good.

858

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah.

859

Yeah.

860

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm,

861

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Definitely.

862

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: How

can we introduce a gentle independence

863

building without causing stress?

864

Is this like this fl in

stuff that you're talking

865

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah, I

think that can be really helpful.

866

But I think other things that we

can do from a training viewpoint can

867

also help build confidence in dogs.

868

And actually that's partly why I use

the pet trailing and the man trailing

869

techniques with all of my behaviour

cases, whether they're reactivity or

870

their separation because they we're

allowing a dog to be a dog, but we're

871

also doing something that's enjoyable.

872

So it has loads of benefits, but

it teaches them to have confidence

873

and build that self-confidence.

874

'cause a lot of the dogs we are seeing

with separation issues are lacking in

875

confidence in every area, aren't they?

876

They're nervous dogs.

877

I mean, you mentioned

with dog has other issues.

878

There's a pain, we've got resource

guarding, you know, we've got

879

other things at play and quite a

lot of time there is, isn't there?

880

It's not purely separation.

881

The dog will be displaying other.

882

Anxious or worried behaviours.

883

So if we can start to make them

more confident and have that belief

884

that everything is okay and have a

more positive, optimistic outlook

885

of the world, they're gonna cope

better when they're left as well.

886

Yeah.

887

So I, for me it's pet.

888

That's just my bag.

889

That's why I like to teach.

890

But like Mel, who works with

me, she teaches hoopers.

891

And again, that's like

moving away from the owner.

892

So building and they're not,

I think sometimes my clients

893

look at me like, what?

894

'cause they expect me to be like,

put your coat on and off, coat

895

on and off, shoes on and off.

896

Pick up your car keys,

up and down, up and down.

897

And they think that's the type of training

you've gotta do for separation issues.

898

And I'm there like, right, we're gonna

teach your dog to find missing dogs.

899

And they're like, what?

900

And actually I find it's really

nice because it's different.

901

'cause separation training

can be boring, can't it?

902

I know we've not gone into a huge deal

of it, but it can be boring, it can be

903

repetitive, it can take a long time.

904

So doing something where actually

they go out and they see their dog.

905

Thrive and they do brilliantly at it and

they see their dog having fun can help.

906

I think the owner, the human end of

the leash, fall back in love with

907

their dog again and have a nice bonding

moment because actually as much as you

908

know, they might not wanna admit it.

909

And it's not a nice thing to say.

910

You can start to resent your dog

if they've got a separation issue.

911

I like, I, you know, a lot of

people who come to me are really

912

at the end of their tether.

913

Like they're really finding life hard.

914

They feel really trapped and in a lot

of cases are regretting getting the dog,

915

if it's a, a rescue dog and thinking,

you know, or even I see people really

916

starting to be annoyed at the kennels.

917

Like they didn't disclose this to me.

918

They didn't tell me, they didn't

tell me how hard it was gonna be.

919

And so having an activity where they

have fun together I think can be really

920

helpful in getting through those cases.

921

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah,

922

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah.

923

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Just quickly, I've heard of

924

man trailing before, but is

925

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah.

926

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

What's pet train?

927

Is that finding dogs then?

928

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah,

so basically, so finding pets.

929

So it is exactly the same as

man trailing, but rather than

930

finding a human, we find a pet.

931

Typically it's dogs because

in terms of the training, most

932

people just do it for fun.

933

And so you're not gonna have most

people, some people will, but most

934

people are not gonna have their cat or

their ferret or Guinea pig on a lead.

935

So most of the time it's a, a, a quote,

stewed lost dog that we're hiding.

936

So another person in the class and

then the dog will sniff something of

937

that dog's, maybe some fur, maybe a

poo, and they will then follow the

938

cent trail to find the missing dog.

939

But it doesn't have to be a dog.

940

My boy actually went out to find

Cinnamon, the missing Capy Barra.

941

I dunno if you ever saw that on the news.

942

In September, she escaped from

the zoo at Telford, and Rico

943

went out looking for cinnamon.

944

The Capy Barra the weirdest Wednesday

I've ever had, but it was certainly fun.

945

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

It does sound brilliant.

946

Alright, let's move on

then to essay in practice.

947

So what it looks like and what works.

948

What are some of the most

common signs that a rescue dog

949

is struggling with being left?

950

What's the same for any dog?

951

Isn't it really?

952

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah, I think so.

953

I think probably the ones that

people recognize the most are

954

like destruction and the toileting

that we talked about before.

955

Or your neighbor coming rounded,

saying, your dog's vocalized and

956

barked and shouted or screamed

the entire time you were out.

957

Or a passive aggressive Facebook

post saying somebody's dog has

958

been barking the entire time.

959

If anybody, oh, every Facebook group,

isn't it such and such local community

960

group, could somebody shut that dog up

961

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

And they're

962

Rachel - Nose to Trail: and

963

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

normally, they're

964

Rachel - Nose to Trail: this dog.

965

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

they're normally pasted anonymous,

966

and then they're like, oh, oh my

967

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Because they

don't want their neighbor to realize

968

it's them instead of just going

round and being like, I'm genuinely

969

concerned that your dog is unhappy.

970

We'll, just, it's often a

human based problem, isn't it?

971

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

The, the thing is, if they don't have

972

a camera, they may not know either.

973

Rachel - Nose to Trail: yes, and I

like that is the thing for me that

974

I think so many people miss the more

subtle signs because bless them,

975

there's so many dogs suffering in

silence or people don't realize.

976

So they're like, oh, he gets so excited

to see me goes and eats the Kong

977

that I left for him in the morning.

978

And I think the fact he couldn't

eat the entire time you were at

979

work is a huge red flag for me.

980

That he felt so uncomfortable and so

stressed he couldn't eat dinging problem

981

because actually most dogs in the daytime

are gonna have a snack if it's there.

982

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

983

Rachel - Nose to Trail: my three

would have no problem eating

984

a stuffed cold when I was out.

985

Quite happy to eat that.

986

So I think not eating,

pacing, lip licking, yawning.

987

Not gonna sleep because, you

know, dogs should be asleep.

988

So if they're just staring at a

door for eight hours whilst you're

989

at work, not good, not good at all.

990

But you wouldn't know, would you, if you

didn't have a camera, you wouldn't know.

991

And I, I do wonder if that's why we're

seeing more cases, because as you

992

know, as a nation, maybe worldwide

as well, we're just a bit more dog

993

obsessed than we were 15 years ago.

994

Like everywhere with us,

everywhere is dog friendly.

995

They're at the coffee shop.

996

Mine goes to the nail bar with me.

997

Like they go everywhere.

998

She actually came to the

hairdressers, the puppy.

999

And so I think now we want

to see them, don't we?

00:43:10,171 --> 00:43:13,471

But when I had my first two

border Terriers, what, 20 years

00:43:13,471 --> 00:43:15,091

ago, we didn't have a camera.

00:43:15,091 --> 00:43:16,261

Nobody had a camera.

00:43:17,401 --> 00:43:17,881

You, we.

00:43:17,959 --> 00:43:20,779

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

didn't have I iPhones on Yeah.

00:43:22,429 --> 00:43:23,884

The May Dems and the wires

00:43:24,571 --> 00:43:28,051

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah, so

I think now we just, we know more,

00:43:28,171 --> 00:43:31,051

and so maybe that's why we're

seeing a higher percentage of dogs

00:43:31,051 --> 00:43:34,741

that have it or we're reporting a

higher number of dogs who have it.

00:43:34,771 --> 00:43:35,131

But

00:43:35,154 --> 00:43:35,539

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm mm

00:43:35,851 --> 00:43:36,241

Rachel - Nose to Trail: yeah.

00:43:36,331 --> 00:43:39,301

So many signs that perhaps

we're just not aware of.

00:43:39,524 --> 00:43:39,944

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm-hmm.

00:43:41,209 --> 00:43:44,389

you do as, do you know if

many bts have had it before?

00:43:45,361 --> 00:43:47,431

Rachel - Nose to Trail: I'm

gonna say no, I've never had one.

00:43:48,384 --> 00:43:49,744

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I just wondered because you had

00:43:50,041 --> 00:43:51,421

Rachel - Nose to Trail:

No, I, I've not had one.

00:43:51,421 --> 00:43:52,051

Have you had one?

00:43:52,219 --> 00:43:53,224

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I haven't come across, no.

00:43:54,361 --> 00:43:56,941

Rachel - Nose to Trail: I I mean,

I, obviously, I'm very biased,

00:43:57,211 --> 00:44:03,391

but I find Border Terriers to be

quite a robust hardy little dog.

00:44:03,841 --> 00:44:07,501

And other than the nickname of

border terrorists, and they can be

00:44:07,501 --> 00:44:09,751

a little bit dog reactive and spicy,

00:44:10,194 --> 00:44:10,414

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yes.

00:44:10,441 --> 00:44:13,801

Rachel - Nose to Trail: don't see them

for many other behavioural issues.

00:44:13,981 --> 00:44:17,021

Like, I don't, I've not had

any with repetitive behaviours.

00:44:17,251 --> 00:44:21,211

I also don't see many with a

huge number of like genetically

00:44:21,211 --> 00:44:22,921

predisposed health problems.

00:44:23,311 --> 00:44:26,971

There is a bit of Cushings

going on, but on the whole touch

00:44:26,971 --> 00:44:28,981

wood, they're quite a, a breed.

00:44:28,981 --> 00:44:31,291

We haven't messed with too much just yet.

00:44:31,501 --> 00:44:32,491

And along may it last?

00:44:32,689 --> 00:44:33,229

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:44:33,409 --> 00:44:33,829

Long.

00:44:35,009 --> 00:44:35,429

Brilliant.

00:44:35,429 --> 00:44:40,769

So how do you begin building a plan

with clients once SA is suspected?

00:44:40,769 --> 00:44:41,309

Rachel?

00:44:42,071 --> 00:44:42,491

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah.

00:44:42,491 --> 00:44:45,401

So I am a registered

clinical animal behaviourist.

00:44:45,401 --> 00:44:45,791

So

00:44:46,049 --> 00:44:46,799

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's, yeah.

00:44:47,039 --> 00:44:48,779

Just tell our list is what that might mean

00:44:48,821 --> 00:44:52,931

Rachel - Nose to Trail: yeah, so I, I'm

accredited through the A BTC, the Animal

00:44:52,931 --> 00:44:58,361

behaviour Training Council and the A

PBC, 'cause we love an acronym, so the

00:44:58,361 --> 00:45:03,792

Association of Pet behaviour Counselors as

a registered clinical animal behaviourist.

00:45:03,792 --> 00:45:05,861

So a bit like doctor, dentist.

00:45:05,861 --> 00:45:10,331

Lawyer, the term behaviourist

isn't protected, so anybody

00:45:10,331 --> 00:45:12,872

can claim to be a behaviourist.

00:45:13,242 --> 00:45:15,622

So if you go on Google and

you type in behaviourist.

00:45:15,971 --> 00:45:20,451

You won't necessarily get someone

who's a clinical animal behaviourist,

00:45:20,862 --> 00:45:24,521

whereas a clinical animal behaviourist

has to have kind of a higher

00:45:24,521 --> 00:45:26,741

level of knowledge in theory.

00:45:26,871 --> 00:45:29,691

So, you know, we've all been assessed,

like I have a master's degree in

00:45:29,691 --> 00:45:31,611

animal behaviour, so level seven.

00:45:31,854 --> 00:45:32,334

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

00:45:32,511 --> 00:45:34,191

Rachel - Nose to Trail: but

the main thing is that we have

00:45:34,191 --> 00:45:36,171

to work with our local vet.

00:45:36,621 --> 00:45:37,101

So I.

00:45:37,194 --> 00:45:38,129

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

The vets, yes.

00:45:38,541 --> 00:45:41,451

Rachel - Nose to Trail: so I

work under vet referral only.

00:45:41,661 --> 00:45:45,681

So the first thing for me is if someone

approaches me and says kind of, I've got

00:45:45,681 --> 00:45:49,851

a dog with a separation issue, unless

it's a puppy, which is different because

00:45:49,851 --> 00:45:53,811

that's normal, that's puppy distress,

and we're typically teaching that dog,

00:45:53,811 --> 00:45:57,711

it's okay to be alone, rather than

dealing with a dog who has a full blown

00:45:57,711 --> 00:46:00,621

fear of being left, which is different.

00:46:01,071 --> 00:46:04,011

Then they have to go to their

vet and get a vet referral.

00:46:04,011 --> 00:46:05,601

For me, I have to do that.

00:46:05,601 --> 00:46:07,161

It's part of my code of conduct.

00:46:07,491 --> 00:46:10,941

But also it's really helpful

because a lot of the dogs, and I do

00:46:10,941 --> 00:46:12,411

think the rescue dogs actually, I.

00:46:13,086 --> 00:46:17,976

Potentially have an underlying medical

cause linking to their separation problem

00:46:18,186 --> 00:46:20,046

that may not have been identified.

00:46:20,406 --> 00:46:24,876

And we can do as many repetitions

of activities like door is a ball

00:46:25,056 --> 00:46:27,426

or gradual desensitization programs.

00:46:27,546 --> 00:46:29,496

We could do as many of those as we want.

00:46:29,946 --> 00:46:34,266

But if, like in the case of Salem, the

Husky that I worked with, the reason

00:46:34,266 --> 00:46:37,596

the dog can't be left is because

they've got horrific hip dysplasia

00:46:37,596 --> 00:46:39,726

and arthritis and are in daily pain.

00:46:40,356 --> 00:46:41,496

We are not gonna get anywhere.

00:46:41,744 --> 00:46:41,964

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: And

00:46:42,006 --> 00:46:42,726

Rachel - Nose to Trail: And so actually.

00:46:42,764 --> 00:46:43,644

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

hiding that pain.

00:46:44,511 --> 00:46:44,871

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah.

00:46:45,071 --> 00:46:46,031

They had no idea.

00:46:46,031 --> 00:46:50,381

So this husky that I was working with,

actually I, it was referred to me.

00:46:50,381 --> 00:46:53,201

Nothing was flagged on the vet

referral, perfectly healthy dog.

00:46:53,491 --> 00:46:55,651

We'd worked through normal

separation stuff for ages.

00:46:55,651 --> 00:46:57,391

We were getting nowhere.

00:46:57,571 --> 00:46:59,281

I was hitting my head off a brick wall.

00:46:59,281 --> 00:47:01,621

Like I just was like, I,

this just isn't working.

00:47:01,621 --> 00:47:02,701

They couldn't get anything.

00:47:03,181 --> 00:47:06,391

And I actually went to see 'em and

I don't normally, for separation

00:47:06,391 --> 00:47:10,141

cases, I take cases from the UK

and abroad and work virtually.

00:47:10,531 --> 00:47:12,121

And they were about an

hour and a half's drive.

00:47:12,121 --> 00:47:13,081

And I just thought, you know what?

00:47:13,081 --> 00:47:14,311

There's something I'm missing.

00:47:14,341 --> 00:47:15,871

I'm gonna go see this dog.

00:47:15,871 --> 00:47:16,951

Like there's something else.

00:47:16,999 --> 00:47:17,359

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: to.

00:47:17,926 --> 00:47:19,516

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah,

and I went out and we went for a

00:47:19,516 --> 00:47:24,526

walk actually, and I noticed that

he was only weeing on one leg.

00:47:24,526 --> 00:47:26,956

So like he would only ever

lift his right leg up and have

00:47:26,956 --> 00:47:28,066

his weight on his left leg.

00:47:28,276 --> 00:47:32,296

So if you are walking along, he would

turn 180 degrees round to cock his

00:47:32,296 --> 00:47:33,976

leg and wee, and that's not normal.

00:47:33,976 --> 00:47:36,136

Most dogs will lift either

left or right, won't they?

00:47:36,166 --> 00:47:39,856

Whichever next to the vertical

surface, they'll cock their leg up.

00:47:39,856 --> 00:47:42,176

And we and I said, does he always do that?

00:47:42,176 --> 00:47:44,516

And they were like, well, I

dunno, I've never noticed.

00:47:44,544 --> 00:47:44,764

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh.

00:47:44,846 --> 00:47:46,976

Rachel - Nose to Trail: And so I

said, look, let's just watch that.

00:47:47,516 --> 00:47:51,146

And he would never weight

bear on the other leg.

00:47:51,386 --> 00:47:51,986

Never.

00:47:52,496 --> 00:47:56,156

And because he was a big fluffy

husky, you couldn't see much else

00:47:56,156 --> 00:47:57,686

in terms of how he was walking.

00:47:57,686 --> 00:47:59,966

Like there wasn't much going

on, like, you know, a Labrador.

00:47:59,966 --> 00:48:02,516

You could see the skin and the muscles

and see what else was happening.

00:48:02,546 --> 00:48:03,836

There was nothing else I could see.

00:48:04,286 --> 00:48:06,476

So I flagged it with the vets

and they were kind of like,

00:48:06,506 --> 00:48:07,856

well, you know, he's healthy.

00:48:07,946 --> 00:48:08,876

There's nothing wrong with him.

00:48:09,416 --> 00:48:10,766

Bless the couple.

00:48:10,826 --> 00:48:14,036

They trusted me 'cause they'd been

working with me for a long time.

00:48:14,336 --> 00:48:17,636

And I said, look, I, if it was my dog,

I'd be going and seeing another vet.

00:48:17,819 --> 00:48:18,089

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

00:48:18,206 --> 00:48:18,656

Rachel - Nose to Trail: the other vet

00:48:18,659 --> 00:48:19,049

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: second

00:48:19,076 --> 00:48:22,496

Rachel - Nose to Trail: look at him

said, yeah, horrific hip dysplasia.

00:48:22,526 --> 00:48:23,666

We need to X-ray him.

00:48:23,996 --> 00:48:27,566

X-rayed him one of the worst cases

of hip dysplasia they'd ever seen.

00:48:27,566 --> 00:48:29,756

His bone was basically

entirely out of his hip.

00:48:30,026 --> 00:48:33,776

He needed to have a huge operation

and on pain relief straight away.

00:48:34,166 --> 00:48:38,426

And actually they sent me the most lovely

video of, after he'd had the surgery,

00:48:38,426 --> 00:48:41,906

he'd recovered, he'd had sleeping

fine during the day, not a problem.

00:48:42,056 --> 00:48:45,746

And so for him, that separation

issue was being caused by the

00:48:45,746 --> 00:48:47,216

fact that he was panicking.

00:48:47,246 --> 00:48:48,836

'cause he's in pain when they're there.

00:48:48,836 --> 00:48:50,546

He was, they were like a comfort blanket.

00:48:50,726 --> 00:48:52,586

He was fine when they were there.

00:48:52,826 --> 00:48:54,176

When they left, he couldn't cope.

00:48:54,536 --> 00:48:59,066

And so actually we could have potentially

wrongly, as a lot of people do, gone,

00:48:59,396 --> 00:49:00,776

oh dog can't be left home alone.

00:49:00,806 --> 00:49:02,696

It must be anxiety.

00:49:02,846 --> 00:49:07,016

Therefore it must have

fluoxetine and actually.

00:49:07,931 --> 00:49:11,231

We can't prescribe, I can't prescribe

as a clinical animal behaviourist, as a

00:49:11,231 --> 00:49:13,331

separation coach, you can't prescribe.

00:49:13,691 --> 00:49:18,731

But people will just, dogs will get put

on anti-anxiety medication, assuming that

00:49:18,731 --> 00:49:20,921

is the cause of their separation issue.

00:49:21,161 --> 00:49:23,171

When in this dog's case, what

you needed was pain relief.

00:49:23,471 --> 00:49:28,781

And so for me, that that element of like

working closely with the vets is really

00:49:28,781 --> 00:49:31,961

important to how I treat separation cases.

00:49:31,994 --> 00:49:32,594

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:49:32,741 --> 00:49:35,141

Rachel - Nose to Trail: sometimes it

takes a bit of digging and sometimes we

00:49:35,141 --> 00:49:39,131

just, we don't know because there's no

bump, there's no break, there's no limp.

00:49:39,431 --> 00:49:42,491

And it can be quite hard to find out

if there is a health thing going on.

00:49:42,491 --> 00:49:43,571

But sometimes there is.

00:49:43,901 --> 00:49:47,441

And so we've, we've gotta be mindful,

and that's always a red flag for me if

00:49:47,441 --> 00:49:52,001

someone's dog has been fine for years

and then develops separation anxiety

00:49:52,001 --> 00:49:56,591

around age eight when we know 80% of

dogs at that age have got arthritis.

00:49:56,801 --> 00:49:58,091

So I start to be like.

00:49:58,691 --> 00:49:59,591

This is a bit weird.

00:49:59,591 --> 00:50:02,831

Why have all of a sudden we've got an

issue, oh and now he doesn't like puppies.

00:50:03,041 --> 00:50:07,211

Now we won't get in the car and you start

to piece together all of these issues.

00:50:07,421 --> 00:50:10,391

But the one they've come to us for

help with is separation issues.

00:50:10,391 --> 00:50:12,041

'cause it impacts the human's life.

00:50:12,254 --> 00:50:12,434

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: It

00:50:12,551 --> 00:50:13,631

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Whereas

the others, they're just like,

00:50:13,631 --> 00:50:15,551

oh, he is getting annoying

on walks, but he's managed.

00:50:15,551 --> 00:50:16,481

But I can deal with it.

00:50:16,751 --> 00:50:18,461

Actually, that's the

dog going, I need help.

00:50:18,464 --> 00:50:18,644

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I

00:50:18,731 --> 00:50:19,241

Rachel - Nose to Trail: I'm in pain.

00:50:19,811 --> 00:50:20,741

Help me.

00:50:21,081 --> 00:50:25,041

So yeah, for me I always start with

that like full health check, really

00:50:25,041 --> 00:50:29,091

digging deep with the vet before I do

any kind of separation plan at all.

00:50:29,184 --> 00:50:29,754

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm.

00:50:29,904 --> 00:50:30,294

Yeah.

00:50:30,574 --> 00:50:33,089

And it's good that you said

'cause it's mad how the first

00:50:33,089 --> 00:50:34,529

vet said there was nothing wrong.

00:50:35,009 --> 00:50:37,949

So I always do say to one of

my, someone when I, where people

00:50:37,949 --> 00:50:39,839

get a second opinion, you know,

00:50:39,956 --> 00:50:40,436

Rachel - Nose to Trail: yeah,

00:50:40,439 --> 00:50:42,179

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

that with Bailey because of his back,

00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:46,649

his chronic back pain, two specialist

places had to get a second opinion.

00:50:46,869 --> 00:50:51,614

And it's also worth noting, isn't it,

that you, the pet parent may be able to

00:50:51,614 --> 00:50:54,104

claim on their insurance for CAB stuff.

00:50:54,104 --> 00:50:54,344

So it's

00:50:54,521 --> 00:50:54,881

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah.

00:50:55,004 --> 00:50:56,204

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

looking into your insurance, isn't it?

00:50:56,891 --> 00:50:58,781

Rachel - Nose to Trail: Yeah, if

you've got a fully comprehensive

00:50:58,781 --> 00:51:02,741

pet insurance, most of them will

cover complimentary therapies.

00:51:02,741 --> 00:51:06,431

So maybe behaviour, maybe hydrotherapy

or physiotherapy and things like that.

00:51:06,431 --> 00:51:08,231

So definitely worth people checking.

00:51:08,451 --> 00:51:12,651

And because I am on that A BTC

register, that is the accreditations

00:51:12,651 --> 00:51:14,331

you need for a pet insurance.

00:51:14,331 --> 00:51:18,411

If they can cover behaviour with a group

of people, they're going to pay out for,

00:51:18,621 --> 00:51:23,061

because we are rigorously assessed and

they know we are not going to stick any

00:51:23,061 --> 00:51:26,841

horrible aversive methods on a dog to

get them over their separation issue.