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FE5.10 - Everything Will Be Vine
Episode 106th June 2024 • Future Ecologies • Future Ecologies
00:00:00 00:47:11

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Vision without eyes? Intelligence without a brain? Are plants more akin to us than we have been prepared to acknowledge? Or are they different in ways we will forever strain to imagine? One way or another, a vine with some unusual abilities is shaking the field of botany to its foundations.

On this episode: Zoë Schlanger (author of the newly-released, New York Times bestselling book The Light Eaters: How the Unseen World of Plant Intelligence Offers a New Understanding of Life on Earth) takes us to the misty rainforests of Chile and back to report on what might just be the world’s most extraordinary plant — hidden in plain sight.

— — —

With music by Modern Biology, Mort Garson, Hotspring, Thumbug, and Sunfish Moon Light.

For credits, citations, transcript, and more, visit futureecologies.net/listen/fe-5-10-everything-will-be-vine

— — —

🌱 Future Ecologies is an independent, ad-free, listener-supported podcast.

Be the first to hear new episodes, and get exclusive bonus content, behind the scenes updates, and access to our discord server, plus stickers, patches, and toques @ futureecologies.net/join

Transcripts

Introduction Voiceover:

You are listening to Season Five of

Introduction Voiceover:

Future Ecologies

Mendel Skulski:

Okay, here we go.

Adam Huggins:

You know the drill.

Mendel Skulski:

Mendel,

Adam Huggins:

Adam,

Mendel Skulski:

Future Ecologies.

Adam Huggins:

and this is the last episode of our fifth

Adam Huggins:

season.

Mendel Skulski:

Thanks for coming with us!

Adam Huggins:

And don't worry, we will be back soon. In the

Adam Huggins:

meantime, we're going to be keeping the podcast feed warm

Adam Huggins:

and cozy over the summer with a few extra treats for your ears.

Adam Huggins:

Today, we've got something really special. Because it's a

Adam Huggins:

story about plants.

Mendel Skulski:

It's more of a mystery about plants. Because

Mendel Skulski:

despite our budding interest, our story today reveals that

Mendel Skulski:

many leaves remain unturned.

Adam Huggins:

The story comes to us from journalist and friend of

Adam Huggins:

the show, Zoe Schlanger, the author of the newly released,

Adam Huggins:

New York Times best-selling book, The Light Eaters — How the

Adam Huggins:

Unseen World of Plant Intelligence Offers a New

Adam Huggins:

Understanding of Life on Earth.

Mendel Skulski:

Zoë took one of our recorders to the jungles of

Mendel Skulski:

Chile and back to report on what might just be the world's most

Mendel Skulski:

ordinary, extraordinary plant. We'll let her take it from here.

Mendel Skulski:

So, without further ado, this is Everything Will Be Vine.

Introduction Voiceover:

Broadcasting from the unceded, shared and

Introduction Voiceover:

asserted territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, and

Introduction Voiceover:

Tsleil-Waututh, this is Future Ecologies – exploring the shape

Introduction Voiceover:

of our world through ecology, design, and sound.

Introduction Voiceover:

Zoë Schlanger: Journalists in my line of work tend to be focused

Introduction Voiceover:

on death. Or the harbingers of it — disease, disaster, decline.

Introduction Voiceover:

That is how climate journalists mark time as the earth passes

Introduction Voiceover:

benchmark after grim benchmark on its way into the foreseen

Introduction Voiceover:

crisis. There’s only so much of this that one person can take.

Introduction Voiceover:

Or perhaps my tolerance was thin and easily worn out after years

Introduction Voiceover:

of focus on droughts and floods. In recent years I’d begun to

Introduction Voiceover:

feel numb and empty. I needed some of the opposite.

Introduction Voiceover:

What, I wondered, is the opposite of death? Creation,

Introduction Voiceover:

perhaps. A sense of becomings instead of endings. Plants are

Introduction Voiceover:

that, given as they are to continuous growth. They’d

Introduction Voiceover:

soothed me all my life, long before studies came out

Introduction Voiceover:

confirming what we already knew — that time spent among plants

Introduction Voiceover:

can ease the mind better than a long sleep. Living in a dense

Introduction Voiceover:

city, I’d walked in the park under a canopy of yews and elms

Introduction Voiceover:

when I needed to clear my head; I’d spent long minutes gazing at

Introduction Voiceover:

the new leaves forming on my potted philodendrons when my

Introduction Voiceover:

nerves were fried. Plants are the very definition of creative

Introduction Voiceover:

becoming — they are in constant motion, albeit slow motion,

Introduction Voiceover:

probing the air and soil in a relentless quest for a livable

Introduction Voiceover:

future.

Introduction Voiceover:

A life spent constantly growing yet rooted in a single spot

Introduction Voiceover:

comes with tremendous challenges. To meet them, plants

Introduction Voiceover:

have come up with some of the most creative methods for

Introduction Voiceover:

survival of any living thing, us included. Many are so ingenious

Introduction Voiceover:

that they seem nearly impossible for an order of life we’ve

Introduction Voiceover:

mostly relegated to the margins of our own lives, the decoration

Introduction Voiceover:

that frames the theatrics of being an animal. Yet there they

Introduction Voiceover:

are all the same, these unbelievable abilities of

Introduction Voiceover:

plants, defying our anaemic expectations. Through

Introduction Voiceover:

conversations with scientists around the world I would learn

Introduction Voiceover:

that their way of life is so astonishing, that no one really

Introduction Voiceover:

knows the limits of what a plant can do. In fact, it seemed that

Introduction Voiceover:

no one quite knows what a plant really is.

Introduction Voiceover:

This is, of course, a problem for the scientific field of

Introduction Voiceover:

botany. Or it’s the most exciting thing to happen to it

Introduction Voiceover:

in a generation, depending on how comfortable you feel with

Introduction Voiceover:

seismic shifts in what you once thought to be true. As I looked

Introduction Voiceover:

deeper, I would find a scientific field eating itself

Introduction Voiceover:

alive with contradictions — points of contention multiplying

Introduction Voiceover:

as fast as the mysteries. But something in me was attracted to

Introduction Voiceover:

this lack of neat answers. Who doesn’t feel both drawn to and

Introduction Voiceover:

repulsed by the unknown?

Introduction Voiceover:

In the 19th century, naturalist Alexander Von Humboldt wondered

Introduction Voiceover:

aloud why being outdoors evoked something existential and true.

Introduction Voiceover:

“Nature everywhere speaks to man in a voice that is familiar to

Introduction Voiceover:

his soul,” he wrote; “Everything is interaction and reciprocal,”

Introduction Voiceover:

and therefore nature “gives the impression of the whole.”

Introduction Voiceover:

Humboldt went on to introduce the European intellectual world

Introduction Voiceover:

to the concept of the planet as a living whole, with climatic

Introduction Voiceover:

systems and interlocking biological and geological

Introduction Voiceover:

patterns bound up as a “net-like, intricate fabric.”

Introduction Voiceover:

This was Western science’s earliest glimmer of ecological

Introduction Voiceover:

thinking, where the natural world became a series of biotic

Introduction Voiceover:

communities, each acting upon the others.

Introduction Voiceover:

The question that I found mired in controversy was whether

Introduction Voiceover:

plants could be considered intelligent — and, for an even

Introduction Voiceover:

bolder minority, whether they could be considered conscious

Introduction Voiceover:

and communicative. For all of their amazing, adaptive

Introduction Voiceover:

behaviour, were they sensate agents? Or, were they each

Introduction Voiceover:

simply acting out a predetermined genetic script?

Introduction Voiceover:

Although I had come to this corner of the scientific world

Introduction Voiceover:

at an exciting time, these questions were anything but new.

Introduction Voiceover:

At the turn of the 20th Century, Jagadish Chandra Bose, a

Introduction Voiceover:

physicist-turned-biologist in Kolkata, India, had begun to

Introduction Voiceover:

experiment and measure the electrical responses of plants,

Introduction Voiceover:

and became convinced that they shared a functional similarity

Introduction Voiceover:

to those in animal tissues.

Introduction Voiceover:

JC Bose biopic: 1901, the Royal Institution, London. He gave a

Introduction Voiceover:

lecture demonstration of his latest experiment.

Introduction Voiceover:

The Secret Life of Plants: Touching the leaves of Mimosa pudica with

Introduction Voiceover:

a cotton soaked in ether, Bose demonstrates the fainting

Introduction Voiceover:

response in a plant.

Introduction Voiceover:

The Bose experiments were denied publication by the Royal

Introduction Voiceover:

Society. By daring to suggest that electrical responses are

Introduction Voiceover:

present in plants, he had offended the learned members.

Introduction Voiceover:

Zoë Schlanger: Despite inventing instruments of unprecedented

Introduction Voiceover:

precision across several disciplines, Bose would be

Introduction Voiceover:

expunged from the scientific canon for his fringe beliefs — a

Introduction Voiceover:

fate not shared by Alexander Graham Bell, who was driven to

Introduction Voiceover:

invent the telephone in hopes of communicating with the dead; or

Introduction Voiceover:

Thomas Edison, whose experiments ranged into telekinesis and

Introduction Voiceover:

telepathy. Dark-skinned and Indian, however, Bose and his

Introduction Voiceover:

ideas were denied a place in Western textbooks for nearly a

Introduction Voiceover:

century.

Introduction Voiceover:

Popular books were a different story. In 1973, the publication

Introduction Voiceover:

of The Secret Life of Plants took the world by storm. 5 years

Introduction Voiceover:

later, a film by the same name, with a soundtrack by Stevie

Introduction Voiceover:

Wonder.

Unknown:

Plants have been wired into a complex computer. The

Unknown:

change of mood as they react to the crowds of visitors will be

Unknown:

converted into musical expression. As the people move

Unknown:

among the plants, the sounds they hear are the plants

Unknown:

reacting to their presence. An ephemeral exchange of energy

Unknown:

linking to diverse life forms, becomes a symphony of emotions.

Unknown:

Zoë Schlanger: At the dawn of New Age culture, the world was

Unknown:

ready to inhale ideas about how plants were just as alive as we

Unknown:

are. It was an immediate and meteoric success, offering an

Unknown:

elysian new way to attend to the living earth.

Unknown:

In some mysterious way, the plant which is attached to

Unknown:

the instrument is able to feel the mutilation of its comrade.

Unknown:

Zoë Schlanger: The Secret Life of Plants was a glimpse at a

Unknown:

society on the verge of direct communication with its leafy

Unknown:

brethren. It would inspire thousands of hours of one-sided

Unknown:

conversations, and some very worn-out cassettes of Wolfgang

Unknown:

Amadeus Motzart.

Unknown:

And it would turn out to be a beautiful collection of myths.

Unknown:

The Kirlian Witness: During intensive periods of meditation

Unknown:

with plants, I learned to channel my energies and enter

Unknown:

new states of being. After spending many hours in deep

Unknown:

concentration, I am able to transcend my physical boundaries

Unknown:

and allow my own spirit to commune with the spirit of my

Unknown:

plant.

Unknown:

Zoë Schlanger: Many scientists would try and fail to reproduce

Unknown:

the tantalising “research” the book presented, eventually

Unknown:

deemed “fallacious and unprovable”. According to

Unknown:

botanists working at the time, the damage that Secret Life

Unknown:

caused to the field cannot be overstated. The twin gatekeepers

Unknown:

of science — funding boards and peer review boards — closed the

Unknown:

doors to any proposals with a whiff of plant “behaviour”.

Unknown:

Over the last 15 years, that tide has finally begun to turn,

Unknown:

with a gentle swell in both research funding and academic

Unknown:

publications. The march of technology, genetic sequencing

Unknown:

and advanced microscopes, has made it possible to come to

Unknown:

previously outlandish conclusions with real rigour.

Unknown:

But, still sensitive to the fallout from the Secret Life,

Unknown:

and due to the squishy, nebulous implications of the word, most

Unknown:

scientific authors don’t use terms like “intelligence” to

Unknown:

describe what they find. Nonetheless, their results

Unknown:

suggested that plants were much more sophisticated than anyone

Unknown:

had dared think.

Unknown:

From the nerve-like action potentials first observed by

Unknown:

Bose, to capabilities of memory, hearing, recognition of kin, and

Unknown:

incredible interactions with insects, the papers probing

Unknown:

remarkable plant behaviours are growing from a trickle to a

Unknown:

fairly robust stream.

Unknown:

One such paper caught my attention. It documented a vine

Unknown:

doing something that should have been impossible — a magic trick

Unknown:

that few animals have mastered, and that no accepted plant

Unknown:

mechanism could explain.

Unknown:

So, in April 2022, I flew due south for 13 hours — first from

Unknown:

New York City to Santiago, and from there to Puerto Montt.

Unknown:

Then, after driving for another 2 hours, past seemingly endless

Unknown:

fields of potatoes bordered by rivers and lakes, I arrived into

Unknown:

the Valdivian temperate rainforests of southern Chile.

Unknown:

Not unlike parts of the Pacific Northwest, the climate was cool

Unknown:

and misty, and every available space was absolutely brimming

Unknown:

with plant life. The constant sights of green and sounds of

Unknown:

rain blanketed my senses in a vibrant static hum. In 2014, a

Unknown:

Peruvian ecologist named Ernesto Gianoli had discovered that a

Unknown:

vine, common to these rainforests, was able to mimic

Unknown:

the shape of almost any plant it grew beside... a botanical

Unknown:

chameleon.

Ernesto Gianoli:

[Spanish]

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: I'm not finding what I'm looking for. It seems

Ernesto Gianoli:

like they may have cut them.

Ernesto Gianoli:

[Spanish]

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: I thought they were right here.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Unfortunately, the sudden notoriety had made this little

Ernesto Gianoli:

vine a target for poachers. It's appropriate then that it has a

Ernesto Gianoli:

particular talent for camouflage.

Ernesto Gianoli:

But here I found...

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: Oh, wow it's so tiny.

Ernesto Gianoli:

This is Boquila, yeah it’s so tiny, This

Ernesto Gianoli:

is Boquila and this is Rhaphithamnus. At first glance

Ernesto Gianoli:

you’d say it’s the same. Quite difficult to tell who's who.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: This is Ernesto Gianoli himself. And in his

Ernesto Gianoli:

hands, Boquila trifoliolata — a slender, climbing vine, with

Ernesto Gianoli:

leaves in clusters of three. Here, one strand of Boquila was

Ernesto Gianoli:

winding its way up a tree, Rhaphithamnus spinosus. On the

Ernesto Gianoli:

part of the vine climbing the tree, its leaves had

transformed:

now a dark glossy green, shrunk to a fraction of

transformed:

their original size, and tapered to a point. And this was just

transformed:

one example of Boquila’s mimicry. Ernesto and his

transformed:

colleagues have found Boquila modelling itself on more than 20

transformed:

species, and counting!

Ernesto Gianoli:

So far, what we knew about mimicry was a one to

Ernesto Gianoli:

one relationship. This species A mimics this species B. But then,

Ernesto Gianoli:

comes along Boquila and says no, I can mimic very different

Ernesto Gianoli:

species.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: In the world of plants, mimicry is otherwise

Ernesto Gianoli:

quite limited — shaped by special circumstances of

Ernesto Gianoli:

coevolution. Like in the case of rye, once culled as an unwanted

Ernesto Gianoli:

weed by early farmers. It was effectively selected to blend in

Ernesto Gianoli:

so well with the fields of wheat that it became a cereal in its

Ernesto Gianoli:

own right. Or certain types of mistletoe, which are each

Ernesto Gianoli:

obliged to parasitize a particular host plant, tapping

Ernesto Gianoli:

directly into its vascular system. The leaves of Australian

Ernesto Gianoli:

she-oak mistletoe are strikingly similar to Australian she-oak,

Ernesto Gianoli:

likewise the leaves of eucalyptus mistletoe resemble

Ernesto Gianoli:

those of eucalyptus. Evolution has sculpted these plants to

Ernesto Gianoli:

blend in with their specific surroundings, but on an animal

Ernesto Gianoli:

timescale their appearance is fixed. Not so, with Boquila.

Ernesto Gianoli:

The same individual can mimic two

Ernesto Gianoli:

different species.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: Boquila’s mimicry is spontaneous and flexible. A

Ernesto Gianoli:

single vine may climb across several different plants and

Ernesto Gianoli:

change its leaves accordingly.

Ernesto Gianoli:

I mean, in terms of size, one to ten ratio.

Ernesto Gianoli:

And in terms of shape, and color, vein patterns — a broad

Ernesto Gianoli:

array of traits. What is mimicry? Similar colours, maybe

Ernesto Gianoli:

similar shapes. But this goes beyond that.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: What’s more, direct contact is unnecessary

Ernesto Gianoli:

for Boquila to model itself after another plant. It may

Ernesto Gianoli:

simply be growing nearby.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Whoa. That's huge.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Yeah it's huge. And also this, as I told, this

Ernesto Gianoli:

wavy...

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: Uh huh. The wavy edge.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Yeah wavy edge.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: Wow. That's unbelievable. I mean, that's

Ernesto Gianoli:

like, what 15, 16 times the size over there?

Ernesto Gianoli:

Yes, exactly. Here, small Boquilas. But starts

Ernesto Gianoli:

growing larger and larger. Not all the plants, of course — not

Ernesto Gianoli:

all the leaves, of course.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: So if you were an herbivore, your first impression

Ernesto Gianoli:

would be...?

Ernesto Gianoli:

That it's another species.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: Yeah. Wait, is this Boquila?

Ernesto Gianoli:

Yes.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: It's even got the yellowing.

Ernesto Gianoli:

And if we look carefully around there are five

Ernesto Gianoli:

more.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: We are in a spot totally surrounded by Boquila on

Ernesto Gianoli:

all sides. It's sort of a glen of Boquila. There's maybe 10 or

Ernesto Gianoli:

15 other species of plants, all growing up as thick bushes, and

Ernesto Gianoli:

the Boquila is twining around all of them. And on almost every

Ernesto Gianoli:

single one I'm walking by, you have to look very closely. But

Ernesto Gianoli:

the Boquila has shifted its shape. In some areas of its

Ernesto Gianoli:

vines to match. Most of these species, in some places, the

Ernesto Gianoli:

leaf is almost the size of my hand to match long, large leaves

Ernesto Gianoli:

of one species and 10 meters away, it's smaller than my pinky

Ernesto Gianoli:

nail to match a species with very small, dark, glossy leaves

Ernesto Gianoli:

that have a strong vein down the middle and the Boquila matches

Ernesto Gianoli:

that vein and that gloss perfectly too. It's just

Ernesto Gianoli:

astounding. And the longer I spend staring at an area the

Ernesto Gianoli:

more Boquila appear, but it takes a while so if I was an

Ernesto Gianoli:

herbivore, I for sure would be tricked. If I was a deer walking

Ernesto Gianoli:

through here, I just can't imagine if they're visually

Ernesto Gianoli:

guided how they’d distinguish between these plants.

Ernesto Gianoli:

And not all of these model plants are endemic to this

Ernesto Gianoli:

rainforest. Ernesto showed me it next to a plant, creeping

Ernesto Gianoli:

buttercup, that had only recently been introduced,

Ernesto Gianoli:

sometime in the last 20 years. Here, Boquila’s duplication was

Ernesto Gianoli:

strikingly partial and imperfect. It almost felt like

Ernesto Gianoli:

witnessing a young artist practising their still-life

Ernesto Gianoli:

sketches — actively refining their skill in rendering the

Ernesto Gianoli:

world.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Every time Ernesto goes out into the field to study Boquila, he

Ernesto Gianoli:

and his colleagues discover it modelling itself on yet another

Ernesto Gianoli:

species. I was present for the addition of two plants to this

Ernesto Gianoli:

ever-growing list. First, a species of maidenhair fern, so

Ernesto Gianoli:

far the only documented instance of Boquila mimicking a fern,

Ernesto Gianoli:

which I found myself. And second, an overstory tree known

Ernesto Gianoli:

as Notro.

Ernesto Gianoli:

This is the first record of Boquila doing

Ernesto Gianoli:

something with Notro. This shape of elongated leaves is quite

Ernesto Gianoli:

rare to observe in Boquila.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: Still riding high off of my own small

Ernesto Gianoli:

contribution, I asked Ernesto what it felt like to be the

Ernesto Gianoli:

first one to notice Boquila’s magic trick.

Ernesto Gianoli:

What is the dream of a kid who likes

Ernesto Gianoli:

science? To make a discovery, right? A dinosaur bone or

Ernesto Gianoli:

whatever. It was close to that... Close to that dream of

Ernesto Gianoli:

the kid. But still, for it to be really fulfilled, I need to see

Ernesto Gianoli:

the mechanism elucidated.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: And in the hopes of elucidating the mysterious

Ernesto Gianoli:

mechanism of Boquila, two competing hypotheses have been

Ernesto Gianoli:

proposed — both of them revolutionary to plant science.

Ernesto Gianoli:

To crack the code of Boquila immediately will

Ernesto Gianoli:

lead us to crack a general code of plants. They go hand by hand,

Ernesto Gianoli:

I mean. Understanding Boquila will imply understanding plants.

Ernesto Gianoli:

That’s my feeling.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: The first proposal comes from František

Ernesto Gianoli:

Baluška, founding member of the Society for Plant Neurobiology,

Ernesto Gianoli:

later conservatively renamed the Society for Plant Signalling and

Ernesto Gianoli:

Behavior. František is a controversial figure. Unlike

Ernesto Gianoli:

most of his peers, he is a loud and proud champion of plant

Ernesto Gianoli:

intelligence — in fact, he evangalizes the subjective

Ernesto Gianoli:

consciousness of all cellular life.

Ernesto Gianoli:

His hypothesis is as surprising as it is concise. He believes

Ernesto Gianoli:

that plants can see.

Ernesto Gianoli:

František Baluška: Vision in plants is controversial, but it

Ernesto Gianoli:

is strange that it is. Because plants evolved from algae and

Ernesto Gianoli:

algae have vision. So, if algae have vision, why should plants

Ernesto Gianoli:

lose this very useful ability? So, I am surprised that people

Ernesto Gianoli:

are surprised that the plant should see, because if the algae

Ernesto Gianoli:

see why not plants?

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: The suggestion that plants have a sense of

Ernesto Gianoli:

sight goes back to 1905, when the German scientist Gottlieb

Ernesto Gianoli:

Haberlandt described how structures on the surface of

Ernesto Gianoli:

leaves could function as simple optics, affording plants

Ernesto Gianoli:

thousands or even millions of tiny eyes.

Ernesto Gianoli:

František Baluška: Of course, vision in plants is not like our

Ernesto Gianoli:

humans vision. You know, they don't have an eye like we. They

Ernesto Gianoli:

have cells on the epidermis, these cells will act as a lens

Ernesto Gianoli:

and will transmit any object you will expose to these cells on

Ernesto Gianoli:

the other side. This was experimentally shown but

Ernesto Gianoli:

ignored.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: Haberlandt’s theory would go on to fascinate

Ernesto Gianoli:

Charles Darwin’s son, Francis, but ultimately it was forgotten.

Ernesto Gianoli:

How could a plant, apparently without a nervous system or

Ernesto Gianoli:

anything we recognize as a brain, resolve an image?

Ernesto Gianoli:

František Baluška: Everything is projected on the next layer. And

Ernesto Gianoli:

how the cells in the next layer are processing the images and

Ernesto Gianoli:

sending messages further in the plant, no one knows.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: Since Haberlandt, plants have been revealed to

Ernesto Gianoli:

have more kinds of photoreceptors on their surface

Ernesto Gianoli:

than are found in the human eye. There should be no surprise that

Ernesto Gianoli:

light matters to plants. Light is literally matter, to plants.

Ernesto Gianoli:

As any sighted person knows, the qualities of light convey a

Ernesto Gianoli:

wealth of useful information. Still, it’s a big claim to say

Ernesto Gianoli:

that plants are not just weather stations, but telescopes.

Unknown:

Of course, this could be studied, but first, the

Unknown:

science must acknowledge this ability and then the agencies

Unknown:

which give money for research should be willing to give money

Unknown:

for future research, but up until now, nothing happens, you

Unknown:

know, all what is done now is just our hobby.

Unknown:

Zoë Schlanger: František points to new research on several close

Unknown:

evolutionary cousins of plants. A model cyanobacteria with an

Unknown:

eyespot that can sense a light’s direction and move towards it.

Unknown:

Next, a dinoflagellate that builds a structure that

Unknown:

stunningly resembles a lens and retina — a chimeric assemblage

Unknown:

of plastids and mitochondria, no less. And, of course, he points

Unknown:

to Boquila.

Unknown:

There is no way how we would explain this without some

Unknown:

kind of vision.

Unknown:

Zoë Schlanger: So, as outlandish as it may sound at first, a kind

Unknown:

of plant “vision” is not entirely out of the question,

Unknown:

and is one of the few explanations that has been

Unknown:

offered to make sense of Boquila. But Ernesto is not

Unknown:

convinced that vision is the mechanism behind this unassuming

Unknown:

vine’s abilities.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Plants don't need to see in order to do great

Ernesto Gianoli:

things. How can texture, how can thickness be told from an image?

Ernesto Gianoli:

And don't forget that there are some features that are hidden.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: Case in point, the very first plant I saw

Ernesto Gianoli:

Boquila copy with my own eyes — Rhaphithamnus spinosus. This

Ernesto Gianoli:

tree’s leaves curl over at the end, creating a spiny tip or

Ernesto Gianoli:

spike. Likewise, in its mimicry, so does Boquila. But looking

Ernesto Gianoli:

down from above, this distinguishing feature of

Ernesto Gianoli:

Raphitamnus is simply not visible.

Ernesto Gianoli:

You have to feel! You have to put your

Ernesto Gianoli:

finger on the underside of the leaf. How this is able to see

Ernesto Gianoli:

the underside of a leaf when they are placed in a particular

Ernesto Gianoli:

direction that cannot make this possible?

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: Could it be that Boquila was truly covered in

Ernesto Gianoli:

eyelike organs, and was somehow able to integrate this

Ernesto Gianoli:

information across different parts of its body — carefully

Ernesto Gianoli:

observing the Rhaphithamnus from all angles? Or was it a hole in

Ernesto Gianoli:

the plant-vision theory?

Ernesto Gianoli:

I think this is too much of an anthropocentric

Ernesto Gianoli:

view of the phenomenon.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: As we strain to understand how Boquila can

Ernesto Gianoli:

accomplish the seemingly impossible, itself just one

Ernesto Gianoli:

example from a wave of newly-discovered plant

Ernesto Gianoli:

capabilities, the charge of “anthropomorphism” looms heavy

Ernesto Gianoli:

in the minds of many scientists. The risk of discussing plant

Ernesto Gianoli:

sensation, perception, or cognition is that such language

Ernesto Gianoli:

is inescapably tied to our sensation, perception, and

Ernesto Gianoli:

cognition; that habituation with our animal faculties biases us

Ernesto Gianoli:

to interpret plants on familiar, human terms, rather than on

Ernesto Gianoli:

their own.

Ernesto Gianoli:

František Baluška: Most people are not very happy with these

Ernesto Gianoli:

words like "pain", "cognition", and "intelligence", and

Ernesto Gianoli:

"vision", and "hearing". So they think this is forbidden for

Ernesto Gianoli:

plants, somehow. When you do a science, you should start with a

Ernesto Gianoli:

simple system and then to go to the more complex. And we would

Ernesto Gianoli:

not have this problem with anthropomorphism if we would

Ernesto Gianoli:

start our sciences with bacteria, then algae, protozoa,

Ernesto Gianoli:

protists, and then some plants — lower plants, higher plants —

Ernesto Gianoli:

animals, and then humans at the end. You all the time are blamed

Ernesto Gianoli:

by some kind of anthropomorphism, if you find

Ernesto Gianoli:

something similar to humans, you know. Of course, we are in

Ernesto Gianoli:

evolution connected. And now everything — every this term —

Ernesto Gianoli:

is loaded with human activities. So if you say sleep, pain,

Ernesto Gianoli:

cognition, anything, they say you try to humanize plants. We

Ernesto Gianoli:

try to convince them that we say "plant cognition". It is not a

Ernesto Gianoli:

human cognition. It is a plant-specific cognition.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: Intelligence is a loaded word, perhaps overly

Ernesto Gianoli:

connected to our ideas of academic achievement. It’s been

Ernesto Gianoli:

weaponized against fellow humans for millennia, used to divide

Ernesto Gianoli:

people into hierarchies of worth and power. Yet it is, by its

Ernesto Gianoli:

very definition, still a word that contains the germ of what

Ernesto Gianoli:

we mean by alert, awake to the world, spontaneous, responsive,

Ernesto Gianoli:

decision-making. From the Latin interlegere — to discern, to

Ernesto Gianoli:

choose between.

Ernesto Gianoli:

So do plants see? Or does an assumed primacy of vision render

Ernesto Gianoli:

plants as lesser animals — diminishing these green bodies,

Ernesto Gianoli:

and leaving no room for the recognition that they may deploy

Ernesto Gianoli:

means that far exceed the human.

Ernesto Gianoli:

It's very human in nature, to try to put plants

Ernesto Gianoli:

within the frameworks that we are comfortable to deal with.

Ernesto Gianoli:

But sorry, plans are different. So, prepare. Prepare to be

Ernesto Gianoli:

challenged. Prepare to be proven wrong.

Mendel Skulski:

When we come back, Ernesto has his own theory

Mendel Skulski:

to explain this remarkable plant plasticity.

Adam Huggins:

Plastic plants?!

Mendel Skulski:

Those too... after the break.

Mendel Skulski:

Zoë Schlanger: For all the times he has seen Boquila

Mendel Skulski:

trifoliolata, Ernesto had noticed something. Its mimicry

Mendel Skulski:

is rarely total. Instead, it’s patchy. Some Boquila just look

Mendel Skulski:

like… Boquila, even on a vine climbing a tree. This patchiness

Mendel Skulski:

reminded him of the stochastic look of leaf spots and wilts and

Mendel Skulski:

mottling. That is, it reminded him of the infection patterns of

Mendel Skulski:

bacteria and viruses.

Mendel Skulski:

Over the past few decades, another biological revolution

Mendel Skulski:

has been unfolding. A new appreciation for the so-called

Mendel Skulski:

“microbiome” — the communities of single-celled organisms

Mendel Skulski:

living in and on everything else. Famously, in any given

Mendel Skulski:

person, there are about as many non-human cells than there are

Mendel Skulski:

human cells. No longer are microbes considered to be

Mendel Skulski:

exclusively vectors of disease and decay, but are now also

Mendel Skulski:

recognized as essential collaborators in digestion,

Mendel Skulski:

mood, and ultimately health. And humanity is not unique in this

Mendel Skulski:

regard. Effectively all animals, like termites, fundamentally

Mendel Skulski:

rely on their microbiome.

Mendel Skulski:

To most people, the essence of a termite is its ability to digest

Mendel Skulski:

wood. Research has shown that this ability is conferred not by

Mendel Skulski:

the genes of the termite, but by bacteria living within them.

Mendel Skulski:

Correspondingly, those bacteria rely on other, smaller bacteria

Mendel Skulski:

living within them. This is the dizzyingly nested perspective

Mendel Skulski:

that pioneering evolutionary biologist Lynn Margulis first

Mendel Skulski:

popularized as the “holobiont”. She defined the holobiont as a

Mendel Skulski:

composite organism made of many organisms working in concert. It

Mendel Skulski:

includes the microbiome, but also the macrobiome — the larger

Mendel Skulski:

beings in which and upon which the microbiomes live.

Mendel Skulski:

Margulis proposed that complex multicellular life first came

Mendel Skulski:

into being when microbes of different abilities teamed up,

Mendel Skulski:

eventually fusing into one entity, most notably

Mendel Skulski:

incorporating mitochondria and chloroplasts. She believed that

Mendel Skulski:

these sorts of intercellular symbioses may have been more

Mendel Skulski:

important to our evolutionary history than the slow, random

Mendel Skulski:

mutation science believed to be the source of all evolutionary

Mendel Skulski:

change.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Don't forget that once the mitochondria was a

Ernesto Gianoli:

bacteria. It was kind of a parasite that was welcomed by

Ernesto Gianoli:

the cell, saying "Okay, you will make energy and I will give you

Ernesto Gianoli:

a home." And that work very well so far.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: Although initially ignored and ridiculed,

Ernesto Gianoli:

her theory of endosymbiosis is now widely accepted as fact.

Ernesto Gianoli:

“The completely self-contained ‘individual’ is a myth that

Ernesto Gianoli:

needs to be replaced with a more flexible description,” Margulis

Ernesto Gianoli:

wrote, with her son Dorian Sagan, “Each of us is a sort of

Ernesto Gianoli:

loose committee.”

Ernesto Gianoli:

This state of nature is one of interpenetration and mingling

Ernesto Gianoli:

that defies easy categorization. It occupies a middle place, both

Ernesto Gianoli:

in the material reality of the world and in our understanding

Ernesto Gianoli:

of it. To Báyò Akómoláfé, a Yoruba poet and philosopher,

Ernesto Gianoli:

this middle “is not halfway between two poles; it is

Ernesto Gianoli:

porousness that mocks the very idea of separation.” He

Ernesto Gianoli:

describes our collective biological reality as a state of

Ernesto Gianoli:

“brilliant between-ness” that “defeats everything, corrodes

Ernesto Gianoli:

every boundary, spills through marked territory, and crosses

Ernesto Gianoli:

out every confident line.”

Ernesto Gianoli:

What if, Ernesto wondered, this was the key to Boquila? What if

Ernesto Gianoli:

its flexible appearance was an expression of a flexible

Ernesto Gianoli:

holobiome? He conceived an experiment.

Ernesto Gianoli:

It is very important to understand the

Ernesto Gianoli:

experimental design. There's this Boquila plant mimicking

Ernesto Gianoli:

other plants. So we'll focus on one particular interaction —

Ernesto Gianoli:

Boquila and this tree called Rhaphithamnus. So Boquila and

Ernesto Gianoli:

the tree. We spotted this tree with Boquila growing onto it.

Ernesto Gianoli:

And specifically, we took leaves of Boquila doing the trick, I

Ernesto Gianoli:

mean, leaves of Boquila resembling leaves of the tree.

Ernesto Gianoli:

And — this is very important — leaves from the same individual

Ernesto Gianoli:

Boquila that we're not mimicking the tree leaves. So we have

Ernesto Gianoli:

these triplet. Leaves of the tree, Boquila doing the trick,

Ernesto Gianoli:

and Boquila being just the standard Boquila.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: Each pair of Boquila leaves, both mimicking

Ernesto Gianoli:

and non-mimicking, were picked from the same vine, and the same

Ernesto Gianoli:

distance from the tree. They gathered these three sets of

Ernesto Gianoli:

leaves from 5 sites, and brought them all back to the lab.

Ernesto Gianoli:

We analyzed the communities of leaf endophytic

Ernesto Gianoli:

bacteria,

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: Leaf endophytes are the microbiome of the leaf.

Ernesto Gianoli:

The bacteria living within its tissues.

Ernesto Gianoli:

There is not one species of bacteria, there's

Ernesto Gianoli:

hundreds.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: Ernesto’s hypothesis was that if the

Ernesto Gianoli:

microbiome played some part in Boquila’s abilities, then the

Ernesto Gianoli:

community of bacteria in the mimic leaf should resemble that

Ernesto Gianoli:

of the tree, and differ significantly from the

Ernesto Gianoli:

non-mimic.

Ernesto Gianoli:

And that's exactly what the results showed.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: The leaves that successfully mimicked the

Ernesto Gianoli:

Rhaphithamnus shared 255 distinct species of endophytes —

Ernesto Gianoli:

more than triple those shared by the non-mimicking leaves.

Ernesto Gianoli:

I think this is strong evidence of the

Ernesto Gianoli:

involvement — I cannot say more than that — the involvement

Ernesto Gianoli:

somewhat of bacteria in this phenomenon of leaf mimicry. One

Ernesto Gianoli:

possibility, I think, is that in a way, these microbes partially

Ernesto Gianoli:

control for instance, leaf shape, and this opens the avenue

Ernesto Gianoli:

for research on this direction of genetic control, epigenetic

Ernesto Gianoli:

control by bacteria and so on.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: Ernesto is hinting at something with

Ernesto Gianoli:

profound implications. He suspects that bacteria and

Ernesto Gianoli:

viruses exert influence on the shape of all plants — perhaps by

Ernesto Gianoli:

ferrying genes and RNA directly, or perhaps by selectively

Ernesto Gianoli:

activating or silencing pre-existing parts of the plant

Ernesto Gianoli:

genome.

Ernesto Gianoli:

What literature tells us is that microbes are

Ernesto Gianoli:

able to modify gene expression of other organisms. This can be

Ernesto Gianoli:

airborne, like a bath of microbes, cloud of microbe,

Ernesto Gianoli:

whatever you prefer.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: The holobiome makes it difficult to delineate

Ernesto Gianoli:

where one organism ends and another begins, metaphorically,

Ernesto Gianoli:

but also very literally. What lives inside also often lives on

Ernesto Gianoli:

and around. Each of us creatures, like Pigpen from the

Ernesto Gianoli:

Peanuts, a blurry cloud of activity; a burst of flavour in

Ernesto Gianoli:

the atmospheric soup.

Ernesto Gianoli:

And then we are forced to conceive that all

Ernesto Gianoli:

plants are constantly exposed to this process.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: But why then just Boquila? Why aren’t all plants,

Ernesto Gianoli:

or animals too for that matter, integrating each other’s

Ernesto Gianoli:

features on contact? Well, we can’t know for sure that they

Ernesto Gianoli:

don’t — at least on some subtle level. Boquila itself was

Ernesto Gianoli:

described by Western botany in 1782, and it took us more than

Ernesto Gianoli:

200 years to notice it could do this. Could there be other

Ernesto Gianoli:

mimics all over the world, hiding in plain sight?

Ernesto Gianoli:

Or is Boquila simply unique, and particularly porous? Maybe most

Ernesto Gianoli:

plants only speak in the holobiome code of their own

Ernesto Gianoli:

species, while Boquila cracked some universal cypher —

Ernesto Gianoli:

permitting its appearance to be overwritten by its neighbours,

Ernesto Gianoli:

for its own adaptive advantage.

Ernesto Gianoli:

In the first paper ever published on Boquila’s mimicry,

Ernesto Gianoli:

Ernesto and his colleagues measured how copying the leaves

Ernesto Gianoli:

of its surroundings correlated with less herbivory. From this

Ernesto Gianoli:

view, Boquila’s talents could be the undirected outcome of

Ernesto Gianoli:

natural selection — agency and intelligence not required.

Ernesto Gianoli:

One experiment poses a threat to Ernesto’s microbial hypothesis.

Ernesto Gianoli:

In 2021, a study was published claiming to demonstrate Boquila

Ernesto Gianoli:

growing on, and mimicking, a plastic plant. Of course, such a

Ernesto Gianoli:

synthetic model has no holobiome to offer, and the authors

Ernesto Gianoli:

claimed it as a strong support for plant vision.

Ernesto Gianoli:

However, this paper was met with criticism. Ernesto felt that the

Ernesto Gianoli:

experimental controls were very weak, and took issue with the

Ernesto Gianoli:

analysis. The study was a collaboration between an

Ernesto Gianoli:

unaffiliated independent researcher — an amateur

Ernesto Gianoli:

scientist — along with a student of František Baluška. František

Ernesto Gianoli:

himself is editor-in-chief of the journal in which the paper

Ernesto Gianoli:

was published, drawing complaints of an undeclared

Ernesto Gianoli:

conflict of interest.

Ernesto Gianoli:

But all the negative attention hasn’t discouraged František and

Ernesto Gianoli:

his student, Felipe Yamashita, from looking further. František

Ernesto Gianoli:

reports that they have yet-unpublished data detailing

Ernesto Gianoli:

how Boquila is capable of mimicking nothing more than a

Ernesto Gianoli:

photograph of a leaf.

Ernesto Gianoli:

František Baluška: Yes, because we have no data that the Boquila

Ernesto Gianoli:

is mimicking, not only a plastic houseplant, which is published,

Ernesto Gianoli:

but we have now data that it is mimicking even pictures. So, if

Ernesto Gianoli:

you provide the Boquila with the pictures of leaves, different

Ernesto Gianoli:

kinds of plants, then the Boquila start within two, three

Ernesto Gianoli:

days, making some mimicking of these pictures.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: Ironically, František and Ernesto have a

Ernesto Gianoli:

very similar intuition about why the other’s hypothesis is wrong.

Ernesto Gianoli:

That is, the sheer breadth of Boquila’s ability to emulate.

Ernesto Gianoli:

František Baluška: Because the Boquila is mimicking many

Ernesto Gianoli:

physical parameters, it is mimicking the shapes, color,

Ernesto Gianoli:

texture, size and so on. So, it is not easy to transmit such

Ernesto Gianoli:

information by some kinds of bacteria. And even if there are

Ernesto Gianoli:

some different bacteria on mimicking leaves like on the

Ernesto Gianoli:

non-mimicking, it is not any evidence that the bacteria are

Ernesto Gianoli:

having something to do with the mimicking. For me, this story is

Ernesto Gianoli:

really not able to explain everything. I think it is only

Ernesto Gianoli:

possible with some kind of the vision

Ernesto Gianoli:

I would say very lightly, "Show me the

Ernesto Gianoli:

pictures." Because there are no pictures in that paper. If

Ernesto Gianoli:

Boquila is mimicking plastic plants, this is very easy. Take

Ernesto Gianoli:

a picture and show it to us, as I've done in every paper or

Ernesto Gianoli:

article I have written.

Ernesto Gianoli:

I am a scientist. I want to understand. I don't want to be

Ernesto Gianoli:

proven right. I don't want to be famous. I want to understand.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Hopefully be able to see the solution of this mystery within

Ernesto Gianoli:

my lifetime.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Zoë Schlanger: One of the strangest things about Boquila

Ernesto Gianoli:

isn’t the plant itself, it’s the near total lack of research

Ernesto Gianoli:

attention. To the few scientists attempting to tease out its

Ernesto Gianoli:

mysteries, even Ernesto, it remains a side project.

Ernesto Gianoli:

This may partly be lingering skepticism or trepidation from

Ernesto Gianoli:

within the scientific community, but it’s also partly practical.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Boquila is just not easy to work with, compared to typical

Ernesto Gianoli:

laboratory plants — so called “model organisms”. So far, it

Ernesto Gianoli:

has been challenging to grow from cuttings in a greenhouse,

Ernesto Gianoli:

although František says they are making good progress. Still, the

Ernesto Gianoli:

patchiness of its mimicry challenges traditional

Ernesto Gianoli:

statistical methods.

Ernesto Gianoli:

For the time being, Ernesto and František may disagree on the

Ernesto Gianoli:

most promising mechanism to explain Boquila. But they share

Ernesto Gianoli:

at least one thing: an admiration for the 20th century

Ernesto Gianoli:

philosopher Karl Popper.

Ernesto Gianoli:

Popper is widely held to be a father of the modern scientific

Ernesto Gianoli:

method and its premise of falsification. Briefly, he put

Ernesto Gianoli:

forward the idea that scientific theories are never really proven

Ernesto Gianoli:

to be true, they may only be falsified — or in other words,

Ernesto Gianoli:

disproven. According to Popper, science does not sit upon a

Ernesto Gianoli:

bedrock foundation of truth. Instead, the great scaffolding

Ernesto Gianoli:

of all scientific theory is supported only by pilings in

Ernesto Gianoli:

swampy ground. To quote Popper, "the piles are driven down from

Ernesto Gianoli:

above into the swamp, but not down to any natural or given

Ernesto Gianoli:

base. And if we stop driving the piles deeper, it is not because

Ernesto Gianoli:

we have reached firm ground. We simply stop when we are

Ernesto Gianoli:

satisfied that the piles are firm enough to carry the

Ernesto Gianoli:

structure, at least for the time being."

Ernesto Gianoli:

So we will always have more questions than answers. Are

Ernesto Gianoli:

plants more akin to us than we have been prepared to admit? Or

Ernesto Gianoli:

are they different in ways we will forever strain to imagine?

Ernesto Gianoli:

Can we call them cunning in their own right? Or will such

Ernesto Gianoli:

language always be too human?

Ernesto Gianoli:

We share our planet with and owe our lives to a form of life at

Ernesto Gianoli:

once alien and familiar. On what basis do we owe them our respect

Ernesto Gianoli:

and appreciation? In the words of ethnobotanist Timothy Plowman

Ernesto Gianoli:

"They can eat light. Isn't that enough?"

Ernesto Gianoli:

The more we learn about plants, the more their complexities seem

Ernesto Gianoli:

to multiply. The swamp, it turns out is full of life.

Adam Huggins:

Zoë Schlanger is the author of “The Light Eaters:

Adam Huggins:

How the Unseen World of Plant Intelligence Offers a New

Adam Huggins:

Understanding of Life on Earth”.

Mendel Skulski:

And in which the story of Boquila is just one

Mendel Skulski:

chapter. “The Light Eaters” is available now, wherever you get

Mendel Skulski:

books.

Adam Huggins:

This episode of Future Ecologies was produced by

Adam Huggins:

Mendel Skulski, and me, Adam Huggin

Mendel Skulski:

With music by Modern Biology, Mort Garson,

Mendel Skulski:

Hotspring, Thumbug, and Sunfish Moon Light

Adam Huggins:

Cover art by Ali Silva

Mendel Skulski:

And with special thanks to Fiona Glen, Gianni

Mendel Skulski:

Fontana, and Eden Zinchik.

Adam Huggins:

Thanks also to our patrons. Future Ecologies is a

Adam Huggins:

sort of loose committee — a holobiome with each and every

Adam Huggins:

one of you. We would not exist without your continuous support,

Adam Huggins:

inoculating us against a hostile media economy, inspiring us with

Adam Huggins:

horizontally transferred memes, and most of all, helping us grow

Adam Huggins:

— slowly and steadily, upwards towards the light.

Mendel Skulski:

We’re proud to be an independent podcast — with

Adam Huggins:

You'll get access to a bonus podcast feed where

Adam Huggins:

no corporate sponsors, and no ads — just listener support

Adam Huggins:

allowing us to make the show we want to make. If you’d like to

Adam Huggins:

join the party, support the work that we do, and help make our

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you can be the first to hear new episodes and exclusive bonus content.

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6th season the greatest yet, head to futureecologies.net/join

Adam Huggins:

and choose whichever option works best for you.

Mendel Skulski:

Plus our community discord server,

Mendel Skulski:

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Adam Huggins:

That’s at futureecologies.net/join

Mendel Skulski:

Or you know, just keep sharing the show with

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You'll be hearing from us again soon.

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