This week, Matt is joined by Keith Langan from Columbia Threadneedle to explore the complexities of retirement, focusing on seven key aspects that are often overlooked.

Contrary to common perception, retirement is not just a celebration of newfound freedom; it can be one of life’s most stressful transitions. Leaving the structured rhythm of work can bring losses in routine, identity, community, and purpose. Keith highlights the importance of preparing not only financially but also mentally and emotionally for this major life stage. Retirement can be approached with a sense of purpose and connection, rather than merely stepping away from work, to ensure a truly fulfilling and meaningful experience.

Welcome to the Live well podcast, where we explore how to navigate life's biggest changes, overcome challenges, and build a future that aligns with your values and your goals. I'm Matt Wilson, financial advisor, coach and business owner here in South Bend, Indiana, and I'm so glad that you're here.

Today we're unpacking seven things nobody tells you about retirement. We all celebrate retirement as freedom and time, but the research shows it's also one of the 10 most stressful life events.

Why?

Because when you retire, you don't just gain time, you may lose routine, identity, community, and daily purpose. My guest is Keith Langan from Columbia Threadneedle. Keith presents this topic often and brings a helpful human lens.

How not or how to plan not only for your money, but your meaning.

We're going to talk about retiring with something, not just from something, and how to build the social and purpose architecture that makes retiring fulfilling. So, Keith, quick intro for our listeners. Just tell us a little bit about yourself and maybe a little bit about why you do what you do.

Sure, Matt. And thank you, everyone, for having me today. As Matt mentioned, my name is Keith Lang and I live here in Carmel, Indiana.

I'm a father of two boys, right kind of in the middle of my work life. I've been in this industry 20 years and probably have approximately 20 years left.

So again, smack in the middle of my work life here in working with investments, retirement and all those topics.

And so again, I appreciate everyone having me on today and I'm excited to talk about this because when you Google retirement planning, you're going to get a ton of search results and they're all going to be about the dollars. They're all going to be about how much money do you need, retirement calculators, Social Security, taxes, all of those things.

And very little is going to ask you are you mentally prepared for retirement psychologically? Have you thought about it yet? And so that's why we're doing this presentation. That's why I speak about this often.

It's the other part of retirement, kind of the part that nobody really thinks about, but I would say is is maybe more important because if you're not happy in retirement, then what was the point of saving all that money in the first place?

Right. Yeah. So you said that this talk applies to really any transition as well, marriage, empty nest, even career pivots.

So set the stage for us a little bit.

Sure. So really what we're talking about is any time in your life that your life is about to change. And you mentioned routine Your routine changes.

Where you. Where you find yourself when you wake up in the morning changes. I'll use my boss as an example. My boss has three boys and his last.

His youngest son just graduated high school.

And my boss probably spent the last 15 years, every single weekend on a lacrosse field, and suddenly he has to figure out what is he doing now that all three boys are out of the house. So again, that, that is a life change. Maybe not as big as retirement, but it's a life change.

So it could be you're getting married and for the first time you're waking up with someone instead of by yourself, or you're having a child. It could be a divorce. That's a big life change. Moving to a new city. So there's a lot of life changes that we will face along the way.

And again, it's just. It's just asking. Don't.

Hope you figure it out when you get there, but start thinking about it now so that again, you have a plan in place and you can really hit the ground running.

Yeah, I think that's important. You know, we try to prepare people as best we can. In what I do, we have a pre retirement checklist that talks about all the financial things.

But to your point, it's the first time that people have ever gone through it, so they really don't know what to expect. And they, they want to know that, hey, look, somebody's been through this.

Somebody can help me kind of wade through the waters of, of this major transition. So I know we have seven themes, and, you know, I've got some questions here for those maybe, but why don't we just get right into it?

And I know, I think the first one is really just talking about the history of retirement plans.

And I know we've done this talk before, but for our podcast listeners, can you just give us a little bit of history there and let's dive right into it.

Sure. So, Matt, the first of the seven things no one tells you about retirement is that retirement history reveals a lot.

But what it actually reveals is that retirement is both new and also outdated.

And so the new part you think about all the unknowns around retirement, the additional unknowns, is that this is really the first time as a society we're really talking about retirement. But with that said, again, it's already outdated, and I'll explain what that means.

But at the time you had to be 70 to accept Social Security. So not many people lived to 70 if you did not too much longer after. So really a neat policy that wasn't taken advantage of.

The first time they heard about a 401k, they could have been 36 or 40 or later by the time they had access to a 401k.

So when you think about the baby boomer generation, who is who our retirees are right now, for the most part, they didn't even know about saving in a retirement vehicle until they already had a job. And so when they listen to their parents about, hey, how do I retire? The answer was get a job and get a pension. That was the answer.

The whole idea of you're going to live possibly multiple decades in retirement and it's entirely up to you to save for retirement. That was an unknown thought at the time.

Wow.

And if you maxed out your IRA in the 90s, the whole decade, that means you saved $20,000 in your IRA for a full 10 years. So that's why again, it's new, but it's also outdated.

Yeah.

So you talk about the history, but how did the shift to the DIY retirement really create blind spots, you know, especially about the non financial side of things.

Yeah, no, absolutely. So first I'd like to just point this out here.

Now it's estimated that boomers will have to fund about 70% of their retirement themselves and it's over the next 30 years.

And so when we think about retirement now, one, again, in general, that creates a lot of stress and I'm going to go into the, the wrong top 10 list here in a second. But, but two, it affects how you plan for retirement.

You know, when you think about what do I want to do for the next 10, 20, 30 years, a lot of that depends on, well, what can I do?

And what they didn't realize was, well, what can you do really just depended on you and that random account you suddenly gained access to a little bit later in your work life. And so what ended up happening was psychiatrists did a study on what are the most stressful events that people could face in their lives.

Oh, wow.

And this is the number two on the seven things no one tells you about retirement.

And this is really why we're having this conversation today was because of this study, because they basically gave a bunch of people a list of Events and said from a score from 1 being not stressful at all to 100 being incredibly stressful, please rank all of these different scenarios. And so death of a spouse was a 100. Right. Obviously, death of a spouse is incredibly stressful. Divorce scored a 73. Marital separation, 70, 65.

Jail term, 63. I was actually a little surprised jail term wasn't a little bit higher. I would probably put that much higher if it was my jail term.

But death of a close family member, personal injury, marriage, fired at work, these all make sense, right? And so again, the psychiatrists weren't surprised by this, but the last event on the top 10 list was retirement.

And this threw everyone off because, Matt, I mean, you know this. We celebrate retirement.

Yes.

Right.

If someone told you they're retiring, you congratulate them, we throw them a party, we tell them we're envious of them, we can't wait to be in their shoes. So this really surprised them and they wanted to take it one step further. Being what happened, how, how is retirement on this top 10 list?

So they started by asking themselves, well, what other options were there for these people to choose from and to score?

And so, change in health of a family member, change in financial state, change in a number of arguments with a spouse, revision of personal habits, change in eating habits, change in social activities, change in living conditions, change in residence, all of these things happen in retirement. And so that's when psychiatrists started to realize there's another part to retirement that we don't know about right now. Right.

We all know about the great part. You stop working and get to really live your life. But they didn't realize that this could be stressful.

And again, why didn't they realize that this could be so stressful? It's because retirement is now new.

It's because we're finding out really for the first time what happens when somebody stops working for 10, 20, 30 years after working for 40 or 50 years.

So they wanted to take it a step further and say, okay, let's start talking to retirees and let's really try to figure out what is their day to day look like and what is actually happening in their retirement. And that's what number three on the top seven list. The seven things no one tells you about retirement, talks about.

It's the unspoken side of retirement. And so this is depression. Retired people are twice as likely to report feeling symptoms of depression.

And likelihood of clinical depression increases by 40%. Isolation. Yeah. 25% of all seniors, 60 plus report feeling isolated only. And 43% can go days without talking to other people.

And if you think about this, Yeah, I mean, when you ask someone, hey, how's retirement going? They're not going to tell you, well, I'm depressed and isolated. But you might hear, it's okay. Yeah, it's fine. I'm staying busy.

But they don't sound excited about it. They're not smiling and really excited to tell you about how it's going. And that's probably what they're hiding.

I remember speaking to someone one time who retired about four months earlier. And I asked them how retirement was going and it's okay. I said, well, what are you doing? He said, well, I walk the dog immensely.

In my head I'm like, well, that's a weird answer. Because even if you're sleeping eight hours a day, that leaves 16 hours where you're awake.

Even if this dog goes for a full one hour walk, that leaves 15 hours of your day. What are you doing? And so this is what again, people don't talk about.

No one's going to come to you and say, I'm feeling isolated, I'm feeling depressed. But the result could be addiction. And 65% of people, 65 plus, report high risk drinking.

And so again, this is what psychiatrists started to unearth when they realized depression's more, or, I'm sorry, retirement is a lot more stressful than it actually sounds. And that there's this unspoken side. So the goal, and this is why I talk about this topic all the time, is let's try to prevent this part.

Let's try to prevent the depression, the isolation, the turn to drinking or other substance by preparing in advance so we can actually enjoy the final part of our life, the final stage of our life, which could be a third of our life.

So are there some things that, some.

Helpful.

Tools or maybe some, I guess you could call it, interventions that, that you can use to help address some of the stuff that they found.

No, yeah, great question, Matt. And so there is, and right before I go into it, I'm going to say just what, what people end up losing.

And once we know what they're losing, we can figure out how to replace it. So when you ask a retiree, what are you gaining in retirement? They will tell you right away, it's their time, their freedom, their energy.

That's what they're gaining. What they don't think about is, or if you ask them, what are you losing? You might stump them. We don't think about what we're losing.

But in reality, you're losing more routine and identity, your mental stimulus, your social connection, your physical activity. So to your question, Matt, as to what can we do to fix this or prevent this, it's. We need to fill those gaps in our lives.

And so there's something called perma, P, E, R, M, A. And that really addresses how do we fill these voids. And so the P in perma is positive emotion at work. We get this.

It's completing a big project, closing a sale, bringing on a client. We have this positive emotion at work. What is your positive emotion going to be in retirement? It could be starting a charity.

It could be hitting a milestone on a charity. It could be shaving swings off of your golf swing or starting a garden, whatever the case might be.

What is that positive emotion going to be in retirement? It's engagement. At work, we have opportunities to be a leader. People come to us needing help, needing guidance.

We like that as people, we need to be wanted and be needed. So again, in retirement, what are you going to do?

Maybe you could coach youth basketball or again, start a charity or become a board member, but some type of position that creates that leadership where people look up to you, people need you, people come to you looking for advice, relationships. We want to be a leader, but we also want to be part of a team. So what team is that going to be? There are clubs all over the place.

There are book clubs, there are, again, gardening clubs, there are golf leagues and pickleball leagues. So whatever it is, I keep coming to charities. I myself am on the board of a charity.

You could, you know, join a team for a charity, for a cause you care about. But, but where's that team coming from that, you know, helps create that socialization as well? Meeting. Having a defined purpose at work, we.

We basically have titles. We all have titles, we all have job descriptions. It's very clear at work what our purpose is. It's a defined purpose.

When we retire, what is that purpose? What is it going to be?

And so find whatever your purpose is, whether it's helping people, it's again, working on a specific sport of yours, whatever the case is, becoming a great grandparent, whatever it is, help define that purpose. And then finally, the A in perma is achievement similar to positive emotion. It's what can you achieve?

What goals can you set that you can strive for at work? We have those goals. It's getting raises, it's getting promotions, things of that sort. So what are your goals that you can achieve in retirement?

And so you should start asking your question, these questions today. And I would say if you can't answer these questions yet, maybe put off retirement. If you're already retired, that's okay.

It's never too late to think about this and write these answers down and really start planning your future.

Yeah, you're making me think of something. Can I interject here?

Absolutely.

I think, and I've walked people through retiring I don't know how many times, dozens, hundreds, I can't remember through the years, almost two decades now.

And I would say that there are people that I get concerned about, the people that they don't really have things like you're talking about to look forward to. They tend to get a little bit more sullen about retirement or thinking about it.

But then when they talk about leaving their work or leaving their company, they get excited about that. But there's really nothing to retire to necessarily.

So I've kind of said through the years, look, I think it's important to retire to something and not just from something. And so that gets some people thinking whether it's the right time or not.

And I'll also say this, that a lot of folks that I've worked with in planning and I just had somebody in yesterday, she's ready for retirement. We've had multiple meetings this year just to kind of give her the confidence that she needs to pull the trigger on it. But she's ready for this.

And I've walked through her plan. She has plenty of cash. She has paid down all of her bills or debts.

We've all walk through the pre retirement checklist, which if you want to get a copy of that, then just reach out to me@mattwilsonfinancial.com and we can walk through those things that you need to be thinking about just before and maybe just after retirement. But I'll also say this too.

I remember I had one client that, you know, they retired and they just weren't really happy, kind of like you said, and unfortunately came down with an illness not too long after they retired and they were gone shortly thereafter. But I'll just never forget, you know, there was all this planning and all this effort and they were really just trying to make a life.

And in the end it just kind of came down to they forgot to live life. You know, they didn't do the things that you said here, so don't be so busy making a life that you forget to live it as well.

And then I've said through the years and I think you can maybe speak to this next and that is that I think you should retire to something and not just from something.

Yeah.

And I'll take it one step further, Matt, because we're actually trying to change that terminology slightly from retire to something to retire with something. And I know it's a very subtle change. It's one word, but it could make a big difference.

And I'll give an example as to why it makes such a big difference. I have a friend who has an Uncle Lou. And Uncle Lou had a whole plan for his retirement. When he retired, he found seven cruises.

And these seven cruises were going to take him around the world, and he was going to see the entire world in retirement. He retired, he went on his first cruise, he came back, we all said, uncle Lou, how was it? How was your first cruise? And he hated it.

He hated every second of it. He didn't like anything about cruising. Okay. Found out cruising was not for him.

If he went on a cruise or two while he was working, he would have found this out along the way and had different plans on the other side. I know someone who is nearing retirement. Him and his wife own an rv, and every chance they get, they RV around the country.

That's what their vacations are. He's fortunate where he could work remotely.

And so he'll spend months at a time working from his RV while they travel the world, or, I'm sorry, travel the US and there's absolutely no question what he's going to do in retirement. He is going to RV around the country. He's developed a social network of other RVers who also RV around the country.

And they make meetup spots at different camps where they barbecue and have fun. So there's absolutely no question that he's going to enjoy retirement RVing, because he's doing it right now.

That's an example of retiring with something versus retiring to something. So don't just assume that when you retire, you will suddenly become a charitable person or an avid golfer or a big reader. That may not happen.

Just like every year, everybody makes New Year's resolutions. And a lot of these resolutions don't make it two weeks. I think about half fall off in the first two weeks. About 90% fall off in the first month.

Because you can't just wake up one day and become a different person. It doesn't work that way. Who you are today is who you're going to be tomorrow. So you have to work on that a little bit.

But, yeah, create your habits today. Create your social network today. If you want to golf, start golfing. Today. If you want to start, if you want to be a gardener, start gardening today.

If you want to volunteer at the church or a charity, start today so that when you retire, you already have the lifestyle in place.

I think that's critical. Don't go to the gym the first two weeks of the year if you haven't gone before because you'll get really discouraged.

So anyway, Keith, I appreciate that. I think this is a good point.

Maybe just take a quick break and just speak to the listeners here that if today's conversation is landing for you, then maybe this is your nudge to plan the life that you actually want to live in retirement at Cornerstone. Here in my practice, our process is very simple. It's first, discover, it's second, design.

And third, we deploy the necessary strategies to help you reach your goals. So we start with your purpose statement, what do you want to retire with?

And then design a plan for your income, your investments, your tax strategy, healthcare and estate documents that supports that purpose.

So if you're within 10 years of retirement or already retired and just want a little bit more clarity, then I would just encourage you schedule a retirement readiness session with me. We'll cover lifestyle goals, Social Security, timing, portfolio income, and an action list that you can use right away.

So tap the link in the show notes or visit mattwilsonfinancial.com, you can go to the site and just, just get on the calendar. So plan with purpose, retire to something and with something. So I would just encourage our listeners there.

And Keith, I think you have a couple of more points, right? A couple more things in our seven list.

Yeah. No. So, Matt, that's a perfect segue. You were talking about planning for the future and retirement.

There's some statistics that I think are worth noting. Noting 78% of NFL players are either bankrupt or under financial stress within the first two years. 60% of NBA players are broke within five years.

70% of lottery winners end up broke within seven years. And the reason why is they don't change.

There's no plan for when they're done playing football, when they're done playing in the NBA, or when they win the lotto. What are they going to do next? What's the next plan? That planning is extremely important if you want to have a nice life when you're done working.

And then the last stat, which kind of cracks me up, it's also a nice stat, but 60% of escapees from prison are caught within 24 hours and 85% within the first week. Why Am I bringing this up? They planned so much how to get out of jail, but they don't plan what they're doing next. And that's when they get caught.

But so again, that, having that conversation, planning, and speaking of the future, number six on the seven list is the broken record of longevity. We all know that we're living longer, but what we're also doing is we're younger for longer.

And so when, when people under 30 are asked, when do you get old? Old age begins at 60. 30 to 49 year olds say old age starts at 69. 50 to 64 year olds say old age starts at 72. 65 plus says old age begins at 74.

Only 21% of those aged 65 to 74 say they feel old. My mother is 74. If you call her old, she will probably beat you up. And of those 75 and older, just 35% said they feel old. Old.

So really, what's important to note here is when you think about your life in retirement, there's that old image of the rocking chair in retirement, and that is just gone. You are going to have some energy. You are going to have again, probably, hopefully a couple decades, three decades or more to live in retirement.

So you can start that business, that charity, you can enjoy some sports or whatever the case is. But just keep that in mind. It's not just that you're going to live longer, you're going to feel younger as well.

Didn't Colonel Sanders start KFC in his 60s, something like that?

Yeah, something like 65 years old after.

He had been broke and he'd had just a bunch of different odd jobs. And then he starts KFC and becomes what it is. So that's pretty wild. But, yeah, you wouldn't be, you'd be surprised.

I have so many clients that are in their mid-80s and they're still going to Cabo and they're still, you know, playing golf and they're doing all sorts of activities. They're so active and I don't even know how they do it.

I mean, sometimes I listen and I get tired, but there's so many people that are older than what you would ever think, doing the things that, you know, you would only dream of. Uh, so to your point, living longer and your point about the prisoners? You know, I was thinking about it. They plan, they.

They spend so much energy and time planning on how to get out that they don't take any time to plan how to stay out, right?

Yep.

So maybe they want to go back. I Don't know. But anyway, so you. You. Yeah, keep it rolling here. I know we got one or two more.

Yeah. So we're at number seven of seven now, which is the retirement's greatest paradox, which is you don't stop working. Retirement, it just reorients it.

Whatever you want to do in retirement, it's going to take work.

Again, if you want to become a pickleball player, a better golfer, a gardener, start a charity, start your Kentucky Fried Chicken franchise, right, that is all going to be work.

But ideally, if you find what you love, you know, if you find your purpose, you think about perma, it won't feel like work, and you'll want to work at it. It's also worth noting that there could be some limitations along the way. As much as you feel younger, you might get a little bit slower.

My father, when he retired, started competitively running. At some point, his knees couldn't take it anymore, so now he bites. So, again, there could be some adjustments to make along the way.

But just know that whatever you want to do, it's not going to come easy.

Even if it comes to babysitting grandkids and just saying no sometimes to your children when they ask you to babysit the grandchildren, there's some discomfort, there's some work. But again, if you find your perma, if you find your purpose, it'll all be worth it in the end.

So with that said, I'll finish on this note here, on just this whole thought process of the mentality of retirement. There was a hospice nurse who was asked, when people are on their deathbed in hospice, what are their regrets?

And what she said really hit home for me as a father of two young children and was just trying to make the most of life at the moment. She said that people don't regret the things they did. People regret the things they didn't do. That's powerful. Yeah. And I get it.

When we're working, there are things we just can't do because of work. But retirement is that opportunity to take back control of your life and do the things that you want to do.

Ask yourself, when you're doing your perma checklist, what do you want your legacy to be? How do you want to be remembered? What impact on the world do you want to have?

And that's your opportunity to really make sure you get it done so that you leave that legacy for others and you really get done and do the things that you want to do.

You know, this has been really helpful, Keith. This is fantastic.

And I would Say, from listening to you today and obviously dealing with a lot of folks through the years, I would say create an action plan.

And I've got some things that I've got written down here that I think are really good takeaways for our listeners and maybe anybody who is contemplating retirement. The first is just maybe 1. Write a purpose statement. Why do you get up every day? Why would you get up every day in retirement?

You know, what is that purpose? Map out what perma means for you. List the one concrete action under each letter for the next 30 days, and then maybe trial run, a hobby.

You know, I think that's important as well. I don't want to, you know, find out that what I was looking forward to for decades is really not my thing. Design your social architecture.

So maybe you have two standing dates a week. Maybe it's a faith group or a team that you meet with, or coffee, or maybe you do a coffee walk. I don't know. Then do a retirement readiness session.

I think that's important. Don't just figure out how to break out. Figure out how to stay out.

So I would say you need to integrate your lifestyle, your cash flow, your risk, your taxes. You know, a lot of people think that they need a lot more money than what they actually have. There's a disconnect there.

So how do we make your money work for you? How do we stretch it out? How do we make sure it's there? So, Keith, I really think this was fantastic. I think this was an excellent use of our time.

And hopefully this helps somebody. Maybe they're thinking about retiring. I think there are three big takeaways from what your list was.

And number one, retirement shows up as a top 10 stressor because we often ignore the human side of it. And I think today you did a great job. Just, hey, we're real people. We're emotions. That's not why I'm.

Or that's why I'm not worried about artificial intelligence taking over my job. Because you're sitting across the desk from people who have real concerns, emotions. They've lived a life, and that's made them who they are.

So some things may not be best for them, or maybe they really need to rethink their strategy. So. And I would say, you know, identity and community are a big part of that. That first takeaway. And then two, build the perma on purpose.

So positive emotion, engagement, relationships, meaning achievement. Those are the things that I wrote down. And don't just retire from work. Retire with habits, with roles and rhythms that are already in place.

If you can do that, then you'll be well on your way to a successful retirement and an enjoyable retirement. If you're listening and want to connect or want help connecting on your purpose and a real plan, then I would encourage you.

Let's talk book a retirement read in session in the show notes. Or you can go to the website that I mentioned. Matt wilsonfinancial.com Keith, thanks so much for joining us. This is the Live well podcast.

I am Matt Wilson, live with purpose, plan with intention and Retire well. We'll see you next time.