You just heard him on My Shadow Knows Tommaso Ciampa AEW Entrance Theme , you've heard him for years on The Big Show entrance theme Crank It Up and Paul Wight's AEW theme, and you've probably even heard his amazing covers of popular songs in various styles. On this episode, I talk with Joe Altier, the man behind the Big Show's entrance themes over the years.

We talk all about how he got involved with Jim Johnston and Big Show's theme Crank It Up, how Brand New Sin was tapped to write their rendition of the theme, and how music has played such an integral role in Joe's life.

We also talk about how Joe was tapped again by AEW composer Mikey Rukus for Paul Wight's theme. We also talk about how his decisions to take even better care of his body led him to an even more fruitful and successful career in music.

Enjoy!

Find more about Joe Altier at https://www.joealtier.com/ .

-

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About The Show:

Do you like wrestling? Do you like music and stories from the road? Join John Kiernan, wrestling entrance theme song composer, and professional musician of over 10 years for stories and interviews with your favorite wrestlers, rock stars, and personalities!

About the Host:

John Kiernan is a wrestling entrance theme song composer with over 150 themes written for wrestlers in various promotions such as NJPW, WWE, ROH, MLW, and many more. As a professional musician, a veteran in the podcasting space, an avid pro wrestling fan and wrestling personality by way of creating the soundtracks for your favorite wrestlers, John Kiernan forges his latest podcasting venture into diving into stories of music, stories from the road, and wrestling from all walks of life from your (and his) favorites of all time.

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we're on stage and like the second song, I see two people out of the corner of my eye come

running down in between the barricade and the stage, you know, and, know, I'm just kind of

2

looking and it's somebody with their hair down over their head and a girl and I look down

and they make eye contact with me and it's Triple H and Stephanie.

3

So they're just standing in front of our, in front of our,

4

of the stage is rocking out and just having a blast.

5

They fist bump me and they're enjoying our show.

6

Well, it's just Joe.

7

I feel like if you're on the show, it's only proper that we introduce you that way.

8

But even in the music that I write, I don't usually do lyrics.

9

don't use, I usually do lyrics.

10

I usually don't do vocals, but we've got you, the man, the myth, the vocal legend here.

11

Many of you on my show.

12

may know who this gentleman is already from any of his covers he's done over on YouTube,

but most specifically for our entrance theme, Connoisseur is here.

13

The man who you hear in the big shows theme and in Paul White's theme, the one and only

Joe Altier.

14

Thank you for joining us today, my friend.

15

it's pleasure man.

16

I always love talking my wrestling and my you know history because it's one of those

things like I'm world famous, but I'm not world famous You know like if you're if even if

17

you're not a wrestling fan You know that song and like it's weekly that that song is going

viral that least the noise is going viral on some video You know and everybody's always

18

like hey, did you see this video like?

19

you know, and they're using the thing.

20

It's like everybody knows that voice, but I could walk into a room and I could be sitting

at WrestleMania ringside.

21

No one's going to know that it was me, you know?

22

So it's one of those things like, yeah, everyone knows that voice, but they don't know who

I am, you know, which it's just fine.

23

I do like, it's fun to think that I'm a part of like, you know, wrestling history and also

a part of like,

24

What's the word?

25

Like just, you know, pop culture.

26

I think that's really what it comes down to, you know?

27

I love the fact that you brought up too that, you know, you can do all of these different

things, but there's like this different level of like fame, right?

28

Because people know you, they hear you, right?

29

They know all of that.

30

But I think my buddy Ben Eller puts it best.

31

goes, cause he does a lot of videos on YouTube and he's played with like Mastodon when

their guitarist dropped out for a little bit.

32

And he's just, he's just like, you know, I'm grateful for the success that I have.

33

grateful that people know me.

34

I'll go to the NAMM show and

35

It's a great hang, but I can still go to the grocery store and not get chased down.

36

And I'm like, it's such a cool dynamic to be able to have a brand, but at the same time,

still be able to live, you know, some sort of like normal life, if you will.

37

Although as musicians and artists, normal life is a relative term, it?

38

m

39

relative, but yeah, it's pretty wild.

40

But then, you know, when I do get into talking to people about things and they're like,

you know, and then that gets brought up and like, my God, that was you.

41

And especially because I think a lot of people, because there's a lot of times like you

said before, I think before we started talking is that like you were familiar with my

42

covers, but you didn't know I was in Brand New Sin or...

43

You know, one, I look a little bit different than I did in Brain New Sin.

44

I mean, I still tattoo, but I'm a little skinnier.

45

I'm a lot healthier than I was back then.

46

uh It was a different style of singing.

47

There's times I'm doing like some kind of, know, soft ballad or something like that.

48

And someone chimes in like, my God, I put two and two together that you're the singer,

you're also the singer of Brain New Sin.

49

And I'm like, yeah, like I have the ability to chameleon my voice into,

50

different genres.

51

I'm lucky not every singer has that ability.

52

I mean, if you need the aggressive stuff, like yesterday I was working on a metal song

with a guy in Poland and you know, but then I got done and I sang a song by bread, you

53

know, for some content, you know, so it's, it's, it's fun.

54

I'm, I'm hoping and I can do that for a long time, but you know, I am in my fifties and I

know at some point there's going to be some kind of, you know, time and age is going to

55

catch up with me, you know, but.

56

But it's also a testament though to how you're probably taking care of your voice too.

57

Cause even there's a social clip on TikTok or Instagram or YouTube, wherever I had seen

it.

58

And you're talking about that.

59

You're like, Hey, you may know my music here, but you definitely know my voice from Big

Show.

60

And it's just your talking voice.

61

And then all of sudden you throw in the effects, you drop the voice and then you hit all

of them.

62

And it's just like, it's so true to form that.

63

I don't, again, I don't know what you're doing for your voice, but at the same time, it's

like, you've been able to keep that versatility for years and years and years.

64

And I, for me personally, if I ever do sing, I've always tried to have my influences

there.

65

And my big three influences, you know, without knowing it were number one being brand new

sin, because SPP was like, I feel like that's probably like the closest that my low voice

66

could probably get.

67

Yeah.

68

Sully Erna from Godsmack because take this as a complete compliment, you're the only two

vocalists that I've heard that sound like a freight train.

69

And I'm like, that is the coolest thing when you have that.

70

And then Matt Heafy is my third from Trivium, but like, it's a very different dynamic.

71

Yeah, but like, yeah.

72

two sides to that, I guess, if there's an answer.

73

One is that I've always treated my voice as I'm an actor, you know?

74

And some people don't understand that some musicians can get up on a stage and do certain

things, and they're like, man, but then they're a different person in real life and all

75

that stuff.

76

I'm like, dude, we're no different than an actor.

77

Right.

78

cause you saw Kevin Costner in Bull Durham, doesn't mean he's that guy or Kevin Costner in

Yellowstone.

79

Everyone's playing a different role.

80

And me with my music, I've always treated each one, just like somebody who's a voice

actor.

81

You're doing different voices, you're acting, you're playing the role.

82

And it doesn't mean that I'm not genuine.

83

I get to pull influences from different people.

84

If I'm singing my softer stuff, I'm pulling my influences from people like Otis Redding,

Kenny Rogers, Garth Brooks, but then if it gets heavier, I'm pulling my influences from

85

Phil Anselmo and James Hetfield and Sully Erna as well as a vocal influence.

86

So it's different, but one of the things I learned years ago as I was getting older and I

was watching a lot of my peers,

87

who are singers start to have struggles.

88

And when you're younger and you're in your 20s and early 30s, you can get away with like,

just, you know, smoking cigarettes, drinking, not taking care of yourself and kind of

89

muscle through it because you the, you have youth on your side, but the people who have

had long careers and have been able to maintain their voice, there's difference.

90

People can still have long careers and still sound like shit, you know.

91

And we don't, everyone knows examples of that.

92

I don't even have to bring that up anymore, but it's different to hear someone like Glenn

Hughes, who's in his seventies, you know, being able to sing, you know, old deep purple

93

songs that he did in the original key or Paul Rogers, who's nearly 80 being able to do

that.

94

And one thing that there was one thing that was common amongst all of those guys that had

longevity.

95

One, they,

96

they got sober at some point.

97

That was one thing.

98

There was a point where drugs and alcohol had to go away.

99

And that's one thing I really started doing a number of years ago.

100

I started scaling back and then eventually I got sober almost two years ago.

101

And it wasn't because I'm like, my God, I'm in the gutter.

102

It wasn't serving me anymore.

103

And I'm like, man, I can't do this to my body anymore.

104

And second of all, I work out five, six days a week.

105

I'm in the gym.

106

I'm out running a couple days a week.

107

I'm out walking all the time.

108

My body is my instrument.

109

have to take care of that.

110

And that's huge.

111

like one of it is diet and exercise.

112

Any other part of it is, you know, staying away from substances, you know, and it doesn't

mean that you have to have that, but you at some point it has to be either a cutoff from

113

those substances or you have to have a very good balance with those because alcohol is the

worst thing for your voice.

114

It drives you out.

115

It dehydrates you.

116

There's a million different things that could go sideways ah with alcohol and then all the

other substances and smoking and all those things.

117

So I think that's a very long answer to the two parts of what happens with my blood.

118

That's how I do it.

119

That's how I do it, or at least how I maintain, you

120

Yeah, and I think it's also true to form because I always tell a lot of my musician

friends or even a lot of the students at my wife and I's music school, I go, listen, if

121

you're looking to be a musician over time, number one, you got to know the ways to take

care of your body.

122

And even for younger students who are starting to get into the instrument, I'm like, you

can start early, build these habits.

123

You know, even if you're playing guitar, like there's different things you could do to

take care of your hands and things like that.

124

But with vocals and with the voice, it's a completely different thing.

125

And

126

a completely different level.

127

And the thing is too, there's, I often stress that there's a difference between being like

just a full blown 100%.

128

This is my artistic sound.

129

I'm only going to do the thing that's in my head kind of artist.

130

And then there's a musician whose role is to serve whatever music they have to do or

whatever need they see fit.

131

And then there's kind of the blend of both of those.

132

And it's not to take away from the artistry of the other.

133

But like, for example, you wouldn't have a Kurt Cobain who, and no disrespect, I love

Nirvana, but like Kurt Cobain was genuinely Kurt Cobain and all that implies, right?

134

But Kurt Cobain wasn't going to go ahead and try to sing like Guns N' Roses.

135

He wasn't going to try and sing like Pavarotti.

136

He was just like, this is the sound that represents me.

137

Take it or leave it.

138

This is what I do.

139

But then you have people like us who do different gigs, different sessions, and we still

have our own original music that we deliver.

140

But at the same time, it's just like you have that additional versatility and a different

tool set.

141

So there's those three different levels.

142

It's like the professional musician, like the work music, right?

143

Then there's that middle ground.

144

And then there's the whatever my art is, that's what my art is.

145

And whatever that is, you got to kind of deal with it, right?

146

Yeah, it is.

147

mean, I saw a thing the other day where Alice Cooper's like, everyone was that when people

were asking him like, you know, if it was asked in a new year, like, how have you been

148

able to maintain your voice all this years?

149

And he's like, I've never I sang in like a four or five note range.

150

stayed right in the middle.

151

So that like, you know, he goes, I was never an opera singer, but he goes, I just knew to

never because I knew where to land.

152

And that's how some people do it.

153

You know, I mean,

154

I was on the road with a singer a few years ago and he is just known for like that very

high acrobatic, all this stuff and that's a stain.

155

He's constantly having to hit these notes and I'm like, bro, like, you know you're not

gonna be able to do this forever.

156

Like, and he goes, well, you know, if I keep it trained, I'm like, let's start looking at

people that sing of that nature and see if they still can sing like that.

157

Steve Perry, Mariah Carey.

158

You know, those people that have insane ranges.

159

ah There is a definite thing that happens as you age.

160

There's a reason why Steve Perry didn't sing for Journey and still does it anymore.

161

He knows.

162

He knows he can't do that anymore.

163

Singers like that are amazing, but there is more of a shelf life for people like that,

unfortunately, than ever.

164

And I'm not saying that there's definitely outliers, but for the most part.

165

If you're going to have a career, you got a longer career, you got to make sure you don't

set the bar too friggin high for yourself.

166

I always said that in the studio.

167

I don't want to do something in the studio.

168

I mean, every once in a while I will, but for the most part, I don't want to be doing a

bunch of shit here in the studio that I won't be able to pull off live.

169

And that's important, the fact that you're taking that creative that you're doing and

you're saying, what am I going to actually be able to have you here when we go live?

170

And it's interesting too, because we dive all from talking about the live and the creative

and all the work that you do.

171

And we're going to come back to that here in a second.

172

But I want us to dive a little bit into the work that you've done in wrestling entrance

themes and stuff.

173

light is about to go off.

174

I'm making sure that it doesn't.

175

So, just got a new thing.

176

All right, there we go.

177

Just wanted to make sure that was working.

178

All right, go ahead.

179

But yeah, carry on.

180

I wanna dive a little bit into some of the work that you've done.

181

For one, Paul White, the big show, the giant, however you know him, the work that you've

done with him.

182

And you started with the obviously very well known, the big show theme that came,

originally it was written by Jim Johnston, right, the first one.

183

And then I would argue, and I don't even think it's an argument, that the version that you

put together and Brand New Sin put together,

184

was and still is the version that people remember about Big Show.

185

So I'd love you to walk us through a little bit on how you and you guys came to work on

that theme for the Big Show.

186

It's quite a story.

187

I've told it so many times that I have it down condensed.

188

But it is funny how many people like online like, well, you didn't sing the original.

189

Like I never said I sang the original.

190

And they're like, well, Michael, he sang the original.

191

And I'm like, yeah, all of us hardcore wrestler fans know that.

192

ah But I don't think that song would have had the staying power.

193

And I think that's what they're really going for.

194

And I'm kind of jumping ahead of the story.

195

But how this all came about was we were on tour with Motorhead.

196

in 2005, spring of 2005, when we were playing at the Hampton Beach Casino in Hampton

Beach, New Hampshire.

197

you know, guys in motorhead and the crew were like, hey, know, Triple H and Stephanie are

going to be out tonight.

198

You know, obviously their connections.

199

So and they live close to Hampton Beach at the time.

200

So or New Hampshire, I think they outside of Boston, I believe.

201

So they're like, they're going to be at the show tonight.

202

We're like, all right, cool.

203

You know, but like sometimes.

204

You hear that a celebrity is going to be at a show, but they don't roll into like the last

minute.

205

They're rolling in just before Motorhead is playing.

206

They're not interested in seeing the opener, you know.

207

um So I didn't think much of it at that point in my career.

208

I was like, I'm not going to get, you know, get my hopes up, you know, things could

change, but we got on stage.

209

to let the fans know this is for when Triple H had long hair, ladies and gentlemen.

210

Just time frame.

211

Yeah, this is 20 years ago.

212

And so we, we're on stage and like the second song, I see two people out of the corner of

my eye come running down in between the barricade and the stage, you know, and, know, I'm

213

just kind of looking and it's somebody with their hair down over their head and a girl and

I look down and they make eye contact with me and it's Triple H and Stephanie.

214

So they're just standing in front of our, in front of our,

215

of the stage is rocking out and just having a blast.

216

They fist bump me and they're enjoying our show.

217

like, this is fucking awesome.

218

And most of the guys in my band weren't privy to wrestling.

219

One guy, my one guitar player was.

220

And him and I kept looking at each other like, this is fucking awesome.

221

So we get done with a set.

222

We go into the dressing room.

223

I'm in the dressing room and there's a knock on the door and I open it and it's AAA to

Stephanie.

224

I'm like, hey, blah, blah, blah, can we come in?

225

And we're like, yeah, absolutely, come in.

226

We just had a long conversation.

227

were just praising us.

228

They're like, you guys are fucking great.

229

Have some beers with us and just shooting the shit.

230

And they're like, hey, we wanna present you guys to the brass.

231

We think you guys could be a great addition to the music world in WWE.

232

And we're like, well, of course, yes.

233

Of course we want that opportunity.

234

And this isn't just coming from.

235

You know, this isn't a takeaway from the other guys that are in the WWE.

236

This isn't, you know, the jobbers, the guys that are there, the stars.

237

These are, you know, he's now the boss of the freaking company.

238

She's the daughter of the owner.

239

You know, it's like, uh, these are people that actually going to make something happen.

240

So we ended up having a great night.

241

They took back a bunch of stuff.

242

They took some merchandise and, and we said our certain buys and like a week and a half

later, our manager got a call from WWE headquarters and they're like, listen, we, we had.

243

definitely want to work with the band.

244

just don't know what capacity yet.

245

So we're just going to, you know, we wanted to reach out and say, yes, we're gonna, uh,

and you'll be hearing from us at some point.

246

Cause at that point they, know, there's always different seasons and different storylines

and different ideas of what they're doing.

247

So, you know, they just didn't know exactly where we're going to get plugged in.

248

So then fast forward to the fall, was like October, you know, like four or five months

later, we finally get a call again from our manager.

249

We're on tour and

250

and uh Carolina's with Black Label Society and our manager called and said, hey, WWE

called and they finally picked a wrestler that they want you to work with.

251

And we're like, all right, who?

252

And they're like, well, the big show.

253

And we're like, awesome.

254

Like, yeah, he's coming back.

255

um And we're like, well, are we writing yet?

256

What are we doing?

257

They're like, no.

258

And then they had Jim Johnstone on the phone with us.

259

And he's like, no, want you, he goes, just want you to take the existing theme song and

just sludge it up, slow it down.

260

down tune the guitars, you know, and just, and blah, blah.

261

And we'll see you in a week.

262

We're like a week.

263

like, so they knew we had two days off in between Springfield, Massachusetts and Toledo,

Ohio.

264

So they're like on those two days off on this tour, right after Springfield, you're gonna

come on that Monday and come straight to Stanford, Connecticut to record the song and

265

we'll spend all day.

266

And we're like, man, how are we gonna rehearse this?

267

Or like just work on it.

268

We have all day at the studio at WWE.

269

m

270

Um, so yeah, we ended up rolling in and WWE headquarters that Monday, which was crazy

because Monday night raw was going to happen that night.

271

So there was a lot going on in the studio and headquarters that night because they were

getting ready for Monday night raw.

272

So in between Jim recording us and us working that out, there was like 10 people in the

control room also doing shit for Monday night raw.

273

They're the editor editing it.

274

We got to add this song.

275

We had to do this, you know, and you know, the writer would call and came, we got to make

this change.

276

So.

277

It was pretty chaotic, but to watch Jim work and anybody who's into wrestling knows how

legendary Jim is and the long history that he had.

278

To watch someone of that stature work was fucking fascinating.

279

I think that was one of the things I love and that he was able to watch something that he

had to do with Raw and then immediately turn his attention back to us and get us, he

280

wasn't at any moment felt like he was like.

281

distracted or annoyed that we were there.

282

He knew what jobs he had to do and he was balancing it all.

283

And I was like, this guy's a fucking Superman.

284

So, but that's how it came about.

285

And that's how we ended up at WWE headquarters.

286

And again, this is, it's a long story and there's a lot of fucking twists and turns, but

eventually we recorded that in the fall, but it didn't make its debut because they weren't

287

sure what big show was going to do.

288

At that time he was in WWE.

289

But then they had just at that time acquired the rights to A to ah man, why am I

forgetting?

290

uh No, they bought why am I thinking where the Dudley boys came from and all the ECW they

just bought ECW.

291

That's what it was.

292

I got all these W's in my head.

293

I'm like, which one was it?

294

They bought ECW and what they were doing, they're like, oh, we're going to move Big Show

over to ECW.

295

And we're going to debut it when we do our first ECW pay-per-view, would be the following

May or June of 06 is when the theme song finally made its debut.

296

Cause then they knew what they were going to do.

297

And then they changed this character.

298

wanted to make it.

299

think at that time he came out as a heel.

300

So they wanted that music to kind of coincide with that.

301

And then the rest is history.

302

Really.

303

It's such a crazy story too, because it starts literally from you guys at a concert,

right?

304

Playing with Motorhead who writes Triple H's theme.

305

And it's like, he's just going to be there.

306

And then all of a sudden, you, there's always the opportunity that WWE calls and says,

Hey, we're going to work with you and nothing ever comes.

307

Right.

308

And we know as musicians that that can happen.

309

But then the other side is when it actually does and you're like, wow, what's going to

happen?

310

And then you're making all these snap decisions in

311

a week, right?

312

And even probably in the recording room, you guys are making those compositional

decisions.

313

And by the way, ladies and gentlemen, not to date either of us, but now this computer

behind me, if you can see it somewhere, is the computer I do all my entrance themes on.

314

I'm plugging DI into it.

315

I've got sequence drums or I'm getting tracks from people, wherever the case.

316

That's not the case.

317

back when you're recording there, you're talking about you're going in, you're setting up

amps, you're setting up all this different stuff.

318

So it's not even that you just have like, okay, a day to write the music or a week to

write the music, you're talking setup, you're talking production.

319

And for those who don't know, Jim would spend like 20 hours in his studio at WWE HQ.

320

Like you're not talking about somebody who's clocking in an eight hour day.

321

And a lot of the people who work over at WWE are clocking that kind of timeframe because

322

was crazy to be at headquarters and we've been back to headquarters a few times for a

couple of different things, one of them being an acoustic version of the song that we did

323

up there, which was a few months later.

324

No, a year later, a year later we went back and did that.

325

But just to see, at least at that time, I I haven't been around the organization, man,

what a freaking machine it was.

326

mean, it was like...

327

Man, there was so many moving parts and so many people involved in so many different

things.

328

it was pretty freaking cool to watch.

329

I'm that type of person.

330

I'm like, I'm not just having to be here.

331

I just, want to watch how shit is getting done.

332

And their studio there was like, well, what equipment do we need?

333

They're like, you don't need anything.

334

We have everything.

335

I mean, they literally, you walked in this other room and Jim's like, well, what guitar do

you want?

336

What amp do you want?

337

What drums do you want?

338

whatever you needed was there.

339

My guys I think did use their guitars just because that's their guitars, but everything

else was already provided by that.

340

Once they got the music down, then he kicked everybody out.

341

He said, you guys can go to dinner, now I want you.

342

And that was pointing at me and then we spent.

343

That was fun.

344

It wasn't hard, it was a lot of fun.

345

I freaking learned a lot.

346

But when you work with someone, any producer, not just Jim, like if you're working with

any music producer,

347

that's on another level and you get a chance to work with them and you listen and you

know, and I learned so much in a few hours time, you know, because it probably took two,

348

three hours to record those vocals.

349

You know, but you're also there's WWE brass on the other side of the fucking window and

I'm sitting here cutting, you know, this theme song is going to be heard by literally

350

millions, if not billions of people.

351

And, you know, yeah, the pressure was on a little bit, you know.

352

But how collaborative was it working with Jim?

353

Because it sounds like obviously you had the music for the reference and he's like, cut a

heavier version of this.

354

But at the same time, it has its own character.

355

Otherwise, it wouldn't have its staying power if we were about the first version, right?

356

Well, I think that was one of the biggest things.

357

One was like, there wasn't a second verse to that song.

358

And they were like, all right, we've got to get a second verse.

359

I was trying desperately to write some lyrics because I'm like, fuck, I want a writing

credit on this.

360

Because if I get a writing credit on this, man, this thing could buy me a house at some

point, you know, with the amount of streams we're going to get.

361

Unfortunately, did because, right.

362

But Jim's like, no, no, I'll have lyrics for it.

363

E-notes.

364

I'm like, well, I tried.

365

I'm like, you ought to say what I'm trying to do.

366

He well, absolutely, buddy, because I got some other stuff.

367

ah But I think really when it came down to the collaborative part of it, I had cut pretty

much the entire song.

368

But as any wrestling entrance theme goes, you've got to grab someone within the first half

a second, second, two seconds.

369

Literally, two seconds is a long time for a wrestling theme song.

370

You hear the clash smash and there comes Stone Cold.

371

You hear a certain noise or you hear the funeral bell.

372

You know the Undertaker's coming out.

373

So that part has to be so iconic.

374

And I remember he goes, all right, let's just cut this.

375

Because I was having, I wasn't even promised with the beginning.

376

We just, he's like, let's move forward and let's come back and we'll end with the

beginning.

377

And.

378

If anyone remembers that original theme song, it was very bluesy.

379

It was kind of like a big blues singer doing that well.

380

And I kept trying to do it like that.

381

And Jim's like, no, no, no, no.

382

He was letting me try it.

383

And he's like, you know what?

384

It doesn't work with the rest of the song.

385

He's like, fucking throw that out the window.

386

Stop trying to do that.

387

And he goes, what would you do?

388

Like, what are you going to do?

389

You know, like, what do you think?

390

You know, and I just kept toying with it.

391

And I'm like, well, you know, I just went, wheeee

392

maybe a second and no music happens.

393

just, hear that and we know the big show's coming and boom.

394

the way, real quick, I just got to cut you off because only you could hit perfectly that a

that's in the AEW one.

395

And then the only you could hit the exact notes from the AEW one and the exact note from

the WWE one, right?

396

That's seeing that.

397

m

398

them two different times, you know, and so like, depending on what theme song I'm thinking

of, because when that, if you want to jump ahead, when that one came to me, you know, that

399

was, that was a crazy story too, but like,

400

the one we're talking about real quick for those who are familiar with that one or

unfamiliar is all of sudden Big Show makes the big jump over to AEW now going by Paul

401

White and Mikey Ruckus and you collaborate on that new theme.

402

yeah, sorry to cut you off.

403

I just wanted to give a little context for that.

404

we went over to that and Mikey had sent me that and that's a crazy story, but I'll jump

ahead and we can digress if we have to.

405

like when we went back, when he sent me that track, didn't have well in it.

406

wasn't, he had already written the lyrics and the melody lines and everything and I just

kind of had to mimic it.

407

And he's like, man, if you feel something, you feel something.

408

And in my head, I'm like, well,

409

There has to be some kind of bridge.

410

There has to be something that connects the two.

411

know?

412

Like, that theme song and him, I honestly think his theme song is sometimes more iconic

than the actual wrestler.

413

Again, in pop culture now, people hear that theme song, but they're gonna think the theme

song or the song, not even think of Paul.

414

And I'm not saying because of me, but just the way it is.

415

So I'm like, how do I bridge

416

yeah.

417

How do I bridge the two?

418

And I literally had, when Mikey had gotten a hold of me, he's like, I'm sending this over.

419

I'm like, well, when do you need it done?

420

He's like, today.

421

This is on Monday.

422

And he goes, we're gonna have this out Wednesday or Thursday.

423

We don't know which day it was.

424

Cause this is during the pandemic.

425

So, you know, things are a little weird because I don't know what night we're gonna use

this.

426

But he goes, we gotta have it done today.

427

Can you get it done today?

428

I'm like, yeah, let me go.

429

You know, he's like, all right.

430

And I sat down in here and at the time I still was drinking.

431

I just went back there and I just took a big slug of whiskey and poured myself a shot of,

you know, some high end whiskey, did a shot and I came over to the mic and did that.

432

And I just heard that, and there was a stop.

433

And I'm like, there's my opportunity to go, know, and do the well.

434

And then it's been a long, long road and it's just getting started.

435

Cause before there, that wasn't, that didn't exist, you know?

436

So.

437

so surprising though, and the thing is, Mikey the Fed, yeah.

438

a yeah or something like that.

439

I can't 100 % but it did not say well.

440

And I'm like, it has to have it there.

441

And when I sent it over, he's like, oh dude, this is gold.

442

Cause now we bridge it.

443

Cause now when that theme song hits and you're like, I don't know exactly who it is.

444

But then you hear that and the wrestling fans are gonna be like, oh

445

Right.

446

And I'll say, I haven't worked with Jim.

447

I've worked with Mikey a couple of times and I've been grateful when they've used, used

music that I've written for wrestlers and they've been brought in.

448

Mikey pulled me to do one song for the Sing EP, which is just like, what?

449

Little me is just like, what are we doing?

450

Little me, big me feels like little me at that point.

451

But the thing that I have to tie through with both of them is they trust you to trust

yourself and trust your instincts.

452

you said with Jim, it's like, what would you do for that?

453

Well, and I'm not going to try doing it again.

454

Um, but then like with the, with the Paul white theme, Mikey sends that to you he's like,

Hey, I've got this, but do what you feel.

455

also by the way, for anyone thinking that that today turnaround time is crazy, it's not

ask Mikey, ask you, ask me.

456

There's been plenty of things that we've been like, Hey, this needed to be done like an

hour ago, that kind of stuff.

457

Right.

458

And it's just when it comes to writing music too, sometimes it's like,

459

That's when you get real creative too, because it's like, you know what you should do.

460

You know what you want to do and you know exactly what you're not going to do.

461

But at the same time, you know, I can, I can understand how there's that collaborative

thing there.

462

And it's like, Mikey knows, Hey, this is the guy that did that.

463

I'm, sorry.

464

I'm still just shocked that it didn't come through.

465

And he's like, you got to do the well, man.

466

You got to do the well, but it's funny.

467

remember that being there originally.

468

It might've been something else.

469

mean, I'm sure on my hard drive somewhere I have it, you know, and I haven't listened to

it, but like that happened so fast.

470

And I just did three vocal comps.

471

like, how many you want?

472

He's like, can you get me at least two vocal comps?

473

I'm like, yeah, no problem.

474

So I did two or I think I did three and half hour later I sent it over to him.

475

And he's like, shit, you're done already?

476

I'm like, yeah.

477

He's like, fuck.

478

He goes, awesome.

479

He goes, no, no, this is great.

480

And then that evening, I was streaming, and at that time I was streaming on Twitch.

481

And you know, I didn't have any gigs going on, so I was streaming almost every day.

482

So I'm streaming on Twitch and then I get an email and he had sent me like a comp of like

what was, what was going to sound like.

483

I'm like, holy shit.

484

I go, this sounds so cool.

485

And then.

486

The next day he sent me the final version.

487

He goes, it's going off on Wednesday.

488

my god.

489

So, know, Monday to Wednesday and, you know, it was quick, I mean, half hour, 40 minutes

tops, I think I did that in.

490

I think I spent more time just sitting there kind of listened to it.

491

And then me, when it comes to vocals, anybody who, once you start getting to the fifth,

sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, 12th, any takes that just start going down the line, you

492

either got to step away from it completely or you got to scrap it because.

493

my opinion, all my my best vocals and anybody who's a vocalist will tell you, oh, they got

that on the first or second take.

494

You know, yeah, you might go back and punch things in, the the gut of it and the majority

of it is done in that initial exception, because after you get any musician, I'll tell you

495

when you record doesn't necessarily be a singer, any of them.

496

Once you get past a couple of takes, then you start getting into your fucking head.

497

And it's really hard not to, because then you're like, well, we really need you to get

that one little part.

498

And then you're like,

499

Then it all fucks everything up and then everything just starts, it's like a house of

cards.

500

You're like, you fall apart.

501

So, you know.

502

it at that point too, right?

503

And especially if you know like your theory and things like that, you're like, maybe I'll

try this, maybe I'll try this.

504

And you try to get a little, and you try to get a little over creative, right?

505

And you're just like, oh, well, I'll do this and I'll do this.

506

When in reality you hear it, you trust your ear and you just go for it.

507

Yeah.

508

right.

509

So sometimes that's why I'm like, man, that's like, we got that.

510

And somebody be like, are you sure?

511

I'm like, yeah, we'll do a punch in here and there.

512

But that's, that's, that's the emotion.

513

I mean, if we want to sound robotic, we can absolutely do that, you know, but in that

instance, no.

514

So, but yeah, that was, that was fun too.

515

That was a lot of fun.

516

I'm gonna give Mikey a hard time about that too.

517

I'm gonna be like, listen, wait a minute.

518

How is that not in it?

519

And I know he's...

520

him.

521

And I apologize if it happened to be in there, but I don't recall.

522

And Mikey, if it was in some way, form, then I apologize, but I don't think it was, or I

don't think it existed like that.

523

Right.

524

There was something representative maybe, but it wasn't just the...

525

yeah.

526

again, was, was shit.

527

Five years ago almost over five, was, was that 2020, 2021, 2020?

528

I don't remember.

529

I wouldn't pull up my computer, but my literally my Mac studios did an update a little

while ago and it's just doing this really weird blinking thing.

530

there's like, it was, okay, that was 2021.

531

couldn't remember.

532

I don't feel like it was in 2020 because nothing was happening in 2020.

533

So yeah, it was the summer of 2021 when that happened.

534

That's not how the song goes.

535

goes summer of 69, but.

536

And so you've done Paul White's theme.

537

You've done big shows theme.

538

Have you ever gotten to just like meet up with him and be like, Hey man, how's this in

both sides?

539

meet Paul a handful of times and one of them was shortly after we recorded that, it's like

a week or two after we had happened to be in Wisconsin and we're on our way, I think to

540

Indianapolis to play on that same Black Label Tour.

541

All this stuff happening in freaking literally a couple weeks time, the phone call, the

recording, and then WWE is like, can you make it to, I think it was Indianapolis.

542

somewhere in the Midwest and they're like, hey, you we know you have a day off.

543

Do you guys come to Raw?

544

Come meet everybody, come meet Vince, come backstage, come the whole night.

545

And so we drove overnight, I think from like Madison and or somewhere up there in

Wisconsin.

546

And we drove down, it might've been Milwaukee, who knows.

547

And we drove and we got to Indianapolis early in the morning and we literally pulled right

into the arena and.

548

And as soon as we got out, know, the brass was there and like, hey, we're going to show

you around what you guys want to do.

549

And our tour guide for the day was, was, was Triple H.

550

I believe he was hurt.

551

I believe he was hurt at the time.

552

I don't know.

553

I think he was injured at the time.

554

He was not wrestling that night, but he was there.

555

So, you know, he just took us around.

556

You guys want to see everything took us out shows.

557

They're getting the ring up that, you know, Triton, you know, the

558

big screen is up, they're doing all this stuff, get to go in the ring and jump on the

ropes and realize how fucking hard the ropes are, how nothing's really as cushioned as it

559

looks.

560

ah You know, then we went to catering and we got to meet Vince.

561

Vince was incredibly nice to us and grateful for what we had did, you know, and backstage

at WWE is not just seeing the wrestlers that are wrestling now.

562

But all the people that work behind the scenes, know, Sergeant Slaughter was still working

behind the scenes at the time.

563

you know, and Steamboat, Ricky Steamboat was behind the scenes.

564

And there was all these old school wrestlers that were still in the biz and on some level.

565

So like me being backstage was just like.

566

This is awesome.

567

And then they're like, well, you know, Paul's going to be here eventually.

568

When you get here, let's all we're going to do some photos with you guys.

569

So he arrived and we went out and we got some pictures, but this is like.

570

was like flip-foam photos that I have, they're horrible.

571

I'm sure WWE's got them, but we got to meet him and hang out.

572

um And then we got to watch the whole show.

573

We got to sit down on some writing sessions and watch how Shawn, I don't remember who

Shawn Michaels was wrestling that night, but we got to sit in one of the rooms and watch

574

Shawn Michaels plan out the match.

575

It was fucking awesome to watch that, right?

576

So cool.

577

And most people will go back and they'll see who they worked with.

578

But very few people get to see that whole inner working behind it also.

579

you know, and then the writers came in and like, hey, we're going to do this.

580

You know, can you guys finish it up?

581

We need this to be seven minutes.

582

You know, because the time like this is happening in real time.

583

So everything's getting moved depending on all that stuff.

584

So to watch that was cool.

585

And then the next time we got to see Paul was the following year when ECW because ECW and

uh Smackdown would record on the same night.

586

They would just, know.

587

Right, they do one before the other, yeah.

588

so they would do Smackdown then change all the colors and change the ring look and all

that stuff.

589

So they're like come up to Albany tonight's going to be, you know, the first time other

than the pay-per-view.

590

This can be the first time that, you know, Big Show comes out to his team song.

591

We want you there.

592

So we went up to Albany, which is we're from Syracuse.

593

So drove up to Albany a couple hours.

594

We sat right behind right behind the announcers all night.

595

We were behind, you know, Jim Ross and in.

596

Lawler and like literally right behind them.

597

So we got to sit there all night.

598

And when Big Show came out that night, you know, they're like, hey, the guys are here.

599

You know, they're right behind us.

600

know, the cameras are panning to us and you know, all that sad Paul came out.

601

We end up having lunch with Paul that day at catering and, you know, pointed us out.

602

So it was it was cool.

603

You know, those are the two times we got to hang out with him.

604

And there was one time he came through Syracuse and I got to see him briefly and stuff.

605

So but yeah, what a

606

What a wild time, man, to be able to see all that.

607

The Albany one stuck out to me because that was a time, Undertaker's my favorite

restaurant of all time.

608

And he walked into catering and I'm sitting there with Paul and I'm just like, and Paul's

like, what?

609

I'm like, is Undertaker here?

610

He's like, yeah, Mark.

611

I'm like, yeah, dude.

612

I'm like, I don't get starstruck, but that's my favorite restaurant of all time.

613

He's like, you want to meet him?

614

I'm like, I get clammed up.

615

So he took me over and we met Mark for, you know, for a few minutes and was just like, I

don't even know if I said words, you know.

616

You just, yes, yes, sir.

617

Yes, sir, Mr.

618

Mark.

619

I mean, Undertaker, yes.

620

this.

621

Yeah, doing this thing.

622

So it was just cool.

623

You know, and then obviously for a long time I was able to I had a phone number and

anytime I wanted to go to a show, they'd hook me up.

624

But I don't know if that phone number still works anymore.

625

don't think there's a lot has changed in 20 years.

626

So

627

That's so cool though.

628

And it's, one of those things that shows that the relationship of that theme of you, a big

show, like that continues over the years.

629

You know, it's like, you know, I'm grateful to say that the themes that I've worked on for

wrestlers, like there's that community, there's that relationship.

630

And it's like, you don't realize it kind of getting into this and doing this, but then

when you are a musician and you have this skill and you're painting that sonic palette of

631

a wrestler story, it's just like.

632

There's a gratefulness on both sides, I think.

633

And I think Kevin said this with It Lives It Breathes.

634

He worked on Will Ospreay's theme before I was with It Lives It Breathes.

635

And he's just like, hey, it's crazy because I wrote this song for this guy when he's on

the Indies.

636

Now he's in AEW.

637

And it's just like, then all of sudden they're on this ship rock thing together and

they're singing separate ways.

638

And Will Ospreay's like, hey, here's this.

639

And it's like, you grow these friendships, but you also never know where your music's

going to go.

640

You know, you don't know where the track is going to go.

641

could just, it could stay in the bingo halls, which is great.

642

It's awesome.

643

It's still doing the job that it's supposed to do, but it could grow into so much more.

644

And then, you know, that just relationship with your wrestler grows.

645

And it's like, it's so cool to see.

646

Yeah, I mean, even last week there was a viral TikTok of there's this guy that's a DJ,

he's a DJ and he goes to different cities around the country.

647

And I think he's like, I don't know if he's an EDM DJ or something in that.

648

He's a club DJ.

649

And I don't know if he's super huge, but he's well known.

650

He travels and tours, but he dropped in the middle of a song.

651

He dropped the big shows new song.

652

And the video was like, I didn't expect this to happen.

653

And it's like the whole crowd just.

654

Well, it's the end of the whole fucking club is just bumping and singing the words.

655

then like every time something like this happens, someone's tagging me like, hey, you

know, and then I'll chime in like, hey, that's me singing.

656

There's a lot of times people like, you're full of shit.

657

You didn't fucking sing the song.

658

You're like the Internet is just so brutal.

659

I'm like, I don't care what I know my truth.

660

I mean, a simple Google search would prove that I'm the guy.

661

But whatever.

662

If you believe.

663

something else you think I'm just trying internet clout then whatever I don't give a shit

I

664

again, though, you know who they think it is.

665

They're just like, Paul did that.

666

Big Show did that.

667

And you're just like...

668

hate, Paul hates the theme song that you did.

669

And I'm like, well, in this interview, I'm like, no, I'm like, think you got taken out of

context and, and stuff.

670

I'm like, you're looking at interviews, but so I chimed in on that.

671

And then the DJ wrote me and he's like, holy shit.

672

goes, man, you're a legend.

673

You're an OG.

674

And he's like, actually, I'm going to be up in the Northeast at some point.

675

I'm like, well, let's figure it out and let's do that.

676

And one of your middle shows, I'll come out and start singing it while you drop it.

677

He's like, dude, that'll be so epic.

678

I'm like, so at some point that's gonna happen.

679

I'm just like, dude, that's gonna be so much fucking fun.

680

You know?

681

Oh my gosh.

682

And you again, you never know where it's going to take you.

683

And, you know, and now let's do a brief kind of talk about some of the covers you do.

684

You know, I know we're kind of, want to respect your time as much as possible, but I'd be

remiss to be able to not talk about whiskey lullaby, or let's actually just talk about

685

what we were talking about off pod the other day, which was that Margaritaville cover,

man, your boy.

686

went to high school in Key West.

687

went from eighth grade to 12th grade.

688

That's not high school, but it's that thing.

689

there.

690

What a fucking wild experience that must have been.

691

everyone's just like, was it living in Key West?

692

And I'm like, I feel like as a teenager, it was very different because you know, when you

go down as a grownup and when you go down as a grownup that doesn't have kids, it's a

693

different experience.

694

When you go down with kids, it's an experience.

695

But when you grow up there as a kid, you're just like, this is a two by four mile Island.

696

And to go to a mall is a five hour drive and to go to a concert that you actually want to

see at that age is a dude.

697

It's crazy.

698

a Walmart.

699

People don't realize, I have a friend that still lives there.

700

And he's just like, I love it down here, but he goes, can't, you have to, there's no Home

Depot.

701

There's no Walmart.

702

None of that shit exists in any of the keys.

703

So it's a very wild thing.

704

hope that it's got everything you need.

705

oh

706

you better hope that it does.

707

But yeah, the covers have always been like...

708

Long story short is when I was in Brand New Sin, when I would come home from tour and then

we were home for three weeks, four weeks, a couple of months, everyone had to go get a

709

job.

710

We weren't making enough money in that band.

711

If anything, we were just fucking throwing, we were losing money.

712

We come home sometimes after five weeks with zero fucking dollars and probably $10,000 in

debt.

713

All of a sudden to come home and make enough money to pay our bills or make enough money

so that we could afford to go back out on the road again.

714

So, you know, I started coming home like I don't want to go work a fucking job.

715

I've been playing rock star for two months.

716

I don't want to do this.

717

You know, and I've always had the ability to just sit down and play at the piano and play

cover upon cover upon cover.

718

And I'm just looking at the other guys here in town.

719

I'm like, man, there's guys in this town playing three, four nights a week.

720

I can do them.

721

You know, no offense to them.

722

I'm just as good.

723

if not better than these guys.

724

So I started using my clout and Brand New Sin to get me in the door.

725

But then I became a novelty because I was like, my God, the singer from Brand New Sin is

in this bar on the corner singing out in John Songz and Billy Joel.

726

And that eventually became my identity even after I left Brand New Sin.

727

And I've been a full-time musician doing that ever since those days.

728

So I was making more money doing that than I was in the band.

729

And when I left the band, then I just dove onto that in the full time.

730

So then eventually social media came around and I started posting up some covers and stuff

like that.

731

And then, you know, the pandemic came around.

732

So then social media became even more important and streaming became more important, you

know, and I'd always had fun, like reworking songs.

733

So, know, someone's like, Hey man, you know, can you play Warpigs?

734

You know, and I'd find out a version of how to play Warpigs on the piano.

735

But really when things took off is one night I was on a Twitch stream and I was like

playing someone wanted to hear Brown Eyed Girl.

736

I'm like, God, I don't want to fucking play this song.

737

It's it's so overplayed and I don't want to play it again.

738

I'm like, you know what?

739

Fuck it.

740

I'm going to try playing it in a minor key.

741

What happens when I put it in a minor key?

742

So I, you know, instead of G was in G minor.

743

So I started doing that and slow it down and sing it a little bit.

744

The melody is a little bit different to hit the notes.

745

And I'm like, wow, I'm onto something here.

746

And at that time, TikTok started taking off because my TikTok that really blew things up

for me was me saying, hey, have you ever wondered what the, you know, the voice of, you

747

know, that was the one that blew up that got me the WWE.

748

That was like a half million.

749

But the one that really broke the gates open was my version of a brown eyed girl and a

minor key.

750

And that went viral.

751

Like, you know, like a million views in one day.

752

And then I'm like, all right, I think I'm on to something.

753

And then it was like the floodgates had opened from there.

754

Like, let's rework this.

755

What if it was a country song?

756

What if we just turned it into a ballad?

757

What if we turned it into a minor key?

758

What if we did like the Margarita Ville one that I just did was like, you know, I was

like, all right, I'm going to sit here with my programs and just do like a drum loop and

759

add some strings and like, let's do a dark cinematic version of it.

760

And now I'm doing those things because those are.

761

None of them gone viral, but they're cool.

762

And at some point they're going to do that.

763

It just offers this thing.

764

So really over the past five years, I really just have kind of dove into like re-imagining

songs.

765

And sometimes they hit with people.

766

Sometimes they piss people off, but I'm like, I don't really care.

767

Cause some people are so protective.

768

They're like, I could put so and so be rolling over in their grave or somebody be so

pissed.

769

then sometimes I'm like, I sent them a screenshot.

770

you know, in the comment of like that artist fucking being like, this is awesome.

771

And like, I don't give a fuck what you say, you know, and honestly, the gatekeeping that

happens in amongst fans and fandom because of the internet is ridiculous because I know as

772

an artist, if someone took one of my original songs and Brand New Sin or as a Just Joe or

anything like that and did something cool with it, I'd be like, dude, that's fucking

773

awesome.

774

Of course, yeah.

775

And you know-

776

I don't think any artist out there is gonna be pissed off or like, my God, I can't believe

you ruined my work.

777

You know, it's like, man, get over yourself.

778

as artists, I think we always appreciate that someone seeing your work and someone doing

something with it, whether it's exact or whether it's their own rendition of it.

779

But something with Margaritaville too is, you know, showing my wife your version of it.

780

And she's just like, I would not have like, cause she knows the song in its current form.

781

She's just like, it's funny though.

782

Like you don't think about it.

783

And my wife's a musician too.

784

She's got her master's in piano performance.

785

better musician than I ever feel I ever am, right?

786

But like, she hears it and she's just like, you would never think that from the lyrics,

but I always bring up bands like Less Than J Kour, like Ska bands are doing everything

787

upbeat.

788

She's like, yeah, but they do songs in minor too.

789

You you talk about a song like Margaritaville and she's like, you would never think that

it's that dark of a song until you read the lyrics, like you said.

790

And she's like, I wonder why he wrote it like that.

791

I'm like, look, there's two different things.

792

One is what is your skill palette?

793

Three things.

794

Second is

795

What can you actually do as a musician, right?

796

And what's going to sell.

797

And third is like, is there some juxtaposition of like, let's make it sound real happy,

but at the same time, it's really this crushing song, you know?

798

when it comes to radio, at least back then, know, upbeat always sold quicker.

799

You wanted some people to dance to, snap to, not to say that ballads couldn't be big, but

like if you go back and listen to a lot of those songs in the 60s, even the early days of

800

rock and roll, some of those are really dark songs, like, know, oh, wake, oh, wake my

baby.

801

It's a fucking car crash.

802

The girl died in his goddamn arms.

803

Right.

804

And they're like, ah, got the song that's going like this.

805

And it's like, but you got in a car crash and your girlfriend died in your arms on a rainy

night.

806

And now you're just screaming for her, go where is she?

807

You know, like, he's heartbroken.

808

But everyone's like, and they're dancing to it.

809

It's like, wait a minute, don't you listen to these fucking lyrics.

810

And that happens a lot.

811

Or sometimes the lyrics might've been meant for an upbeat thing, but.

812

they're open for interpretation to be looked at a different way.

813

Like in Brown Eyed Girl, that is an absolutely upbeat song about somebody who, you know,

singing about it.

814

But when you put it in a different key, it almost makes it sound like, man, did she die?

815

Is he pining for her?

816

You know, did she break up with him?

817

Did she die?

818

You know, like you can do all these things, you know, like even the song, you are my

sunshine, my only sunshine.

819

That.

820

Everyone knows that part, you make me happy when the sky's gray, but when you look at the

verses, those verses are dark as fuck.

821

yeah.

822

yeah.

823

And they're a little disturbing because everyone, anyone is looking at, just go look up

the lyrics.

824

We're not going to take the time to do that here, but go look up those lyrics.

825

uh I had an assignment for one of my comp students years ago and I actually took that song

and I was just like, take it and put it in minor, but use the harmonic minor or like the

826

classical minor, right?

827

Where you hit that major five.

828

And I'm just like, if you do that, it sounds like a stalker song.

829

If you do that, it can change the context completely.

830

with all these songs.

831

And it's fun, you know, and every week I'm even at my gigs, I'm like playing songs and I'm

like, and I can write that down.

832

I'll say, you know, hey, S.I.R.

833

I don't want to say my phone will go out, you know, uh you know, remind me to do this, you

know, and it's fun.

834

It pushes my creativity, but it also pushes my creativity not to do stuff like that, but

it pushes me in the different realms so that when I start writing my own music, which I,

835

you know, I'm

836

getting ready to record another solo record, which I haven't done in number of years.

837

I've been concentrating on other things, but I really got creative over the past year.

838

It's like, I took all those skills that I've had in the past five years and all these new

perspectives on music.

839

And then that jumps over into your creativity, into your own stuff.

840

You know, so it's, it's always a journey.

841

as a musician, I'm telling everybody, go, man, that's why, know, man, wish Metallica

sounded like fucking kill them all.

842

Like,

843

They suck after, you know, the, you know, after Cliff died and blah, blah, blah.

844

And they always say that.

845

I'm just like, man, let's, let's go back 30 years.

846

Are you dating the same person that you were 30 years ago?

847

No.

848

Are you working the same job that you worked fucking 30 years ago?

849

How much do you wait?

850

You wear the same fucking clothes.

851

Let's talk about all the things that are different in your fucking life.

852

I couldn't imagine being with that girl.

853

That fucking girl sucked and you know, blah, blah, blah.

854

And I was like, yeah, like, but do you want to, you know, like.

855

As a musician, you're always wanting to push the boundaries of your talent and maybe you

have more talent than just going, know, Metallica, those guys had more talent than just

856

being a thrash band.

857

They had the ability like, hey, we can be a Southern rock band.

858

And they had all those influences.

859

And honestly, if they didn't make the black record, they would have never been any bigger

than Megadeth Slayer.

860

They all would have been stated in that same thing.

861

But because Metallica made the black record and pushed metal into the fucking mainstream,

really.

862

Metal never was mainstream until Metallica put that out.

863

And once they did, it lifted everything up and then everyone got Megadeth, Slayer, all

those other bands got it.

864

So anybody is like, well, they sucked after Cliff died.

865

And so I'm like, just shut the fuck up.

866

Because Metallica is like literally not just the biggest metal band of all time.

867

They're one of the biggest bands of all time.

868

and to think about that too, with James Hetfield turns around and he tells the story all

the time.

869

He's like, man, I nothing else matters.

870

And I thought I was going to show it to Lars and he was like, man, that's not what we do.

871

And Lars was like, dude, that's dope.

872

Let's keep going with it.

873

Like it also takes another person who's open-minded on that to be like, Hey, let's rock

and roll.

874

know.

875

that's what is, I think it goes back to where we initially talking is these covers.

876

It's just like, I just like doing different things.

877

And it's a way to really one, you know, I get the clicks and the views and all that stuff.

878

And that's not so much important, but it's really built my brand, my ability and like up

on my whiteboard, because now that I'm doing, you know, like more session work here at

879

home, I got to the point where I just, I'm like, I don't want to go out and play piano,

man.

880

and don't stop believing a million times anymore.

881

Like I'm more than that.

882

Like lean into the 30 years of experience that you have and start becoming a session

musician.

883

And now becoming a session musician is easier than ever.

884

It's more competitive than ever because now you're competing with the entire world.

885

But you have the ability once you build that niche to be able to, um I can do anything

here.

886

I don't have to like, my God, we need you for a session in Nashville.

887

Can you get on a plane tomorrow?

888

and I get down there and you'd have to be in the studio.

889

Now, at least what I do, I mean, got my SM7B, I got my other modeling microphone, I got a

couple of different microphones depending on what I need to use, and I have ProLogic and I

890

just do everything here.

891

And my whiteboard's got three projects I gotta work on, one of them will start today.

892

And that's where it is, just being creative, but I love being.

893

too with the whiteboard.

894

That's awesome.

895

have to, I gotta look up there and see what's going on and then another calendar over here

of what's going on in the real world.

896

So here's studio world, here's real world, you know, but yeah, it's social media.

897

So, all right, so what's the big, we gotta do these big things before we wrap up.

898

What are the?

899

know what?

900

I want to respect your time, so we'll invite you back on to do those also at another time.

901

I do have one more question for you, and this is, you don't have to do this if you don't

want to.

902

This is just the fanboy in me.

903

And I hit you with my rendition earlier in the episode here of me doing your name with the

big show.

904

Do you think that you might be able to hit one for us here with my name?

905

You could say no, that's totally cool.

906

do that.

907

What?

908

So how do you want me to do it?

909

Well, it's the...

910

You could, you could even just say John Kiernan on that, you know, cause it's ropes and

riffs, or you could say, it's ropes and riffs or well, it's John Kiernan.

911

Well, it's ropes and ribs.

912

Ropes and ribs.

913

I got Kiernan.

914

Kiernan.

915

John Kiernan.

916

I think I got it.

917

Ready?

918

Where, where is John Kiernan?

919

And we're here on ropes and ribs.

920

It's John Kiernan and we'll hear our ropes and riffs.

921

Get ready for something that you'll never know.

922

oh

923

There you go.

924

That was my riffs,

925

thank you.

926

my God, that's crazy.

927

Second, how you just blast that out, no prep, anything.

928

It was just like, perfect, ugh.

929

Yeah, well, there's so many times someone's like, can you do that?

930

You know, they come up to me at a gig and I'm just like, you know, sometimes every once in

a while I got it.

931

I was in another key of the other song.

932

So every once in a while I'm like, you know, my head, I'm going on the piano.

933

Where's the note?

934

Where's the note?

935

So.

936

gotta have a tip jar out when you're doing all these cover gigs.

937

You're like, tip this much for whale.

938

well I do that with piano man.

939

Like sometimes someone comes up and I have a little sign that says piano man's 50 bucks

tonight.

940

Piano man's 100 bucks tonight.

941

You know, if you want a well, you know it's 10 bucks, you know, so.

942

But it's fun and then sometimes people just kind of, I've been hired to just go to a

wedding just to do that.

943

That's awesome!

944

Can you do this to introduce us?

945

Like we're gonna do the bridal parting.

946

Can you just come out and we're, and then the song kicks in and like, we actually have the

fucking guy here, you know?

947

So, and I've had, I think there's a gas and heating place in Charlotte, North Carolina.

948

And I did a version for them and they were using it for their like jingle for couple of

years.

949

Like I did a parody of it, you know?

950

So.

951

I love that.

952

Your legacy precedes you in all these different places in wrestling and music and all

that.

953

in a while I just forget that I do it and every once in a while I'm like, oh, I don't want

to brag about it.

954

But I'm like, fuck that.

955

This is awesome.

956

I'm bragging about it, you know, so.

957

also in like musical context or shows like this.

958

It's not like you go to the grocery store and you're with the eggs and they're like, hey

man, like right here by the eggs, you're like, dude, are you serious?

959

What are we doing?

960

dude, now that you've put that out into the universe, it's going to, now that's going to

happen.

961

And when it does, I'm to be like, all right, I'll do it.

962

But I got to, we got to record it because my voice is so big and inside of a grocery

store, if I do that at full volume, it's going to scare the shit out of people, you know?

963

the shit out of half the people and the other half are gonna be like, it's the dude that

did the thing!

964

go!

965

buy the eggs!

966

to come over and like, you know, like leg drop the buns, you know, and the bread section.

967

You know, I'm like, let let pure chaos happen at that point.

968

But yeah, let's schedule for me to come back and we'll do the more of the wrestling side

of things.

969

I have to figure out what the hell's going on with my computer.

970

I to call my computer guy because I got to hit this thing working on.

971

Fuck, you know, stuff.

972

All right, I know.

973

Appreciate you, man.

974

We'll talk soon.