I know it is a bit of a strange title. But bear with me this is the last episode of Series 3 (Series 4 will start in February 2026) and we have a couple of loose ends to tie up and an amazing idea to share.

Back in November 2024, I visited the Castlefield Viaduct in Manchester and the route of the proposed Camden Highline in London. Now regular listeners will know that I love high lines and I have walked the ones in Paris and New York. (For the latter check out episode 17)

I promised in 2024 that we would revisit both the UK projects, one year on and in this episode we catch up with Kate Picker and Simon Pitkeathley. And treacle features quite a lot!

Then there is the amazing idea of twinning your garden with a farmer in rural Africa thanks to the charity Ripple Effect. I worked with this charity under its former name 'Send a Cow' when I was the BBC Radio 4 Appeals Producer and I was thrilled to learn, thanks to Claire - the Garden Editor, that the charity has another brilliant idea.

So enjoy this episode and perhaps any others you have missed during this series; they feature Napolean, Adam Frost and Poppy Okotcha, alongside a million daffodil bulbs, ancient seeds, enormous yucca plants and tiny snowdrops - there are lots to choose from.

Ripple Effect

https://rippleeffect.org/get-involved/giving/garden-twinning

Claire - The Garden Editor

https://www.gardeneditor.co.uk/about

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Sally Flatman: 00:00:03

Welcome to Our Plant Stories and the last episode of season three. We've heard so many stories. A million daffodils planted in New York after the 9/11 tragedy.

A tulip tree that helped heal Jerry, who had been homeless, reminding him he had been a gardener. A yucca plant that grew into a monster in the front room of the writer Jerry J.G. ballard.

And a bald cypress bought back by Napoleon, linking the Loire and Louisiana. Who knew there were so many wonderful plant stories out there?

And remember, if you have one you would like to share for Series 4, which will start in February, just get in touch Sally@OurPlantStories.com so to this final episode.

Claire: 00:00:53

I think I had twinned other parts of my life. Like I twinned my bin. I think I twinned my toilet or someone had gifted me a toilet for Christmas, which is fantastic.

And I came across twinning your garden. And I just thought what a brilliant idea.

Sally Flatman: 00:01:14

. But first, back in November: 2024

Kate Picker: 00:01:27

Despite the trams, despite being in the city centre, it does feel really calm and peaceful up here. And it feels like you do come up out of the bustle and the hustle, hustle, bustle, sorry of the city And you can actually have some kind of calm time up here.

Sally Flatman: 00:01:43

And I also walked the route of the proposed Camden High Line in London with Simon Pitkeithley

Simon Pitkeathley: 00:01:49

For me a these spaces that are always this sort of 8, 10ft above everything else have a different feel to them. There's just a calmness, perhaps it's air quality, I don't know. But they just engender this sense of calmness.

Even when there's a train line trundling next to you that you don't get at ground level. And I think that's a really important part of - any High Line has that.

Sally Flatman: 00:02:14

I said in November: 2024

So I brought together Kate Picker, experience and programming manager for Castlefield Viaduct, and Simon Pitkeithley, the chief executive of the Camden High Line. And I began by asking Kate about their visitor numbers.

Kate Picker: 00:02:35

Yeah, so good. So we saw about 10,000 visitors come through in August, so we had a reasonably good summer. And we think we are just shy now of 250,000.

into the new year, just into: 2026

Sally Flatman: 00:02:59

And where are they coming from? Are they local to Manchester? Are they coming from outside Manchester? Do you have any breakdown on that?

Kate Picker: 00:03:07

Yeah, we get a bit of both, really. Yeah. So we do see Manchester is quite an international city.

It does actually pull in a lot of tourists as a city, so we do see about 20% of our visitors, international visitors.

I think that's a combination of the two major football teams pulling a lot of visitors, a lot of international students in the city as well, with the three big universities. And then we see sort of a good chunk of people coming from the rest of the UK as well.

So we're definitely part of the tourist infrastructure of Manchester now, but we're still seeing good numbers of local people using it too.

Sally Flatman: 00:03:44

So when I visited, we walked along the part that is currently open, and then you get to the end and you kind of you look through the glass, don't you, and you see the potential, the future. Where are our plans at with that?

Kate Picker: 00:04:00

So we have over 2.7 million pounds of the funding that we need for phase two. That will help to double the size and transform it into a through route. So the aim is to add a stairwell and lift at the far end once it's extended.

And we're still looking for some additional funding. So anyone listening wants to get in touch.

But, yeah, we have 2.4 million from National Highways, historic railways estate committed, 100k committed by Manchester Council, which is great that they're supporting us. And another 100k by Greater Manchester Combined Authority. And some from £150,000 from the Railway Heritage Trust as well.

So we've seen a really nice mix of support from the city and the wider kind of combined authority, as well as Historic Railways Estate and the Railway Heritage Trust. So that's really great. So we're definitely well on the way to achieving our fundraising.

Sally Flatman: 00:05:01

So how much do you still need to raise?

Kate Picker: 00:05:06

We probably need. I'd say probably half a million plus. Yeah. Maybe a little bit more.

Sally Flatman: 00:05:14

Does that feel achievable?

Kate Picker: 00:05:17

We hope so, yes. We're hopeful, particularly with the level of funding that we've already got that will encourage other people to step on board.

We're also kind of part of the conversation around Cyan Lines, which is a new kind of initiative for Manchester, and that's around connecting blue and green spaces in Manchester, and that's founded by Tom Bloxham and Pete Swift, along with our mayor, Andy Burnham and others. So that's a Manchester initiative. But the viaduct fits really nicely within that, being kind of very close to all the canals.

So that's another kind of in the next 10 years, they want to connect all that up, and we're kind of hopefully sitting as part of that as well.

Sally Flatman: 00:06:00

Brilliant. Well, that sounds very exciting. And that you're kind of, you know, you're looking forward to that second phase.

Simon, I was re listening to our episode this morning before the interview, and I love that moment when we walk up there. There's a stairwell that makes you think of Jurassic Park.

There were no dinosaurs, but I remember we looked down on one patch of land and there was just a gasometer that was just, you know, someone didn't know where to put it. So that's where it got put.

And you talked about how everything's a challenge with the Camden High Line. How are you getting on with the challenges of that?

Simon Pitkeathley: 00:06:33

I mean, when I first started this, I thought the challenge was going to be raising money. You know what? I think if I ever write a book, it's going to be called Treacle.

Because wading through the different bureaucracies of putting a High Line on a viaduct next to a live train is intense.

And I think I've discovered a new superpower, which is tolerance for treacle, which is a bit disappointing because of all the superpowers you could have. That doesn't feel like a particularly good one. It's a bit like being committee man or something like that, isn't it? How dull is that?

But it is important, and that's kind of the way I'm realizing you have to get through this stuff. How much treacle can you tolerate? What do you need to do to get around it?

I think we're quite fortunate that we're quite well connected, and so we can go kind of to senior levels within various organizations and kind of go down from the top and try and unpick treacle. And that works for a bit, and then it sticks again, and then you need to do it again. And that really is the experience of this. That. There you go.

That's the book now I don't need to really write it. It's done. Yeah, but it's, I mean, interesting in lots of ways that that's been so far, the kind of defining feature of it.

Sally Flatman: 00:07:49

Tenacity is perhaps another word, isn't it?

Simon Pitkeathley: 00:07:53

Tenacity to deal with the treacle? Yes. I mean, I don't know what, what, what liquefies treacle. Heat probably Isn't it? But yeah, yeah. The tenacity to apply the heat to the treacle.

No, we need a culinary expert to know if that works.

Sally Flatman: 00:08:06

Is it partly because you're just dealing with so many different authorities, so many different groups and Kate, did you have the same, did the National Trust have the same and it was dealing with the, with the Castlefield Viaduct, Simon, is that part of the problem for you?

There's just. There's so many different groups.

Simon Pitkeathley: 00:08:22

Yeah, there's lots of. I mean, we've got objectors. You know, you'd think people wouldn't object to a park, but. But some do.

NIMBYism is real and they're not always well informed and they're not particularly well informing of others. Sometimes that's quite tricky to deal with.

We've got someone going around saying that we've got a 200 person music venue on our, on our High Line, which we haven't never have had, never will have, but, you know, and that sort of that's a, that's a different part of it. But yes, fundamentally you're dealing with other people's assets and you don't I mean, maybe slightly different for the National Trust. I don't know if you actually own that but we don't own it, never will. It'll always be Network RA or Great British Railways.

And of course they're going through a transition which also is another part of the treacle. So, yeah, it is tricky.

I think the other thing is that if you're doing this for profit, if you were a developer doing this to, you know, build a block of flats or do any of those sorts of profit driven things, you can kind of make a calculation about how much treacle is worth it. But with this you just gotta, it doesn't really matter, you know, you just got to get there in the end and swallow the treacle and just keep going. Again, that metaphor doesn't quite work. That's about swallowing treacle, but never mind.

Sally Flatman: 00:09:40

Kate, was it different, do you think, for the National Trust and the viaduct?

Kate Picker: 00:09:46

I'm not the project manager so I'm fairly confident that they would say that they've waded through a good bit of treacle.

Simon Pitkeathley: 00:09:52

I've spoken to some of your colleagues. They would definitely say that. Yes.

Kate Picker: 00:09:55

Yeah, they would definitely say that. There is, there's a lot of - it's interesting for us as we don't own the viaduct, it's Historic Railways estate, part of their estate and they're being very supportive which is brilliant. But when we do the extension, we'll be running alongside the Metrolink line much more closely.

And obviously TFGM very understandably wanted to have quite a lot of information about how that would work. They've got high and the trams are running at higher speeds, they're running at closer to train speeds upon that section.

So they understandably wanted to understand quite a lot about what we wanted to put there and how we were going to make sure that people couldn't access the rail network. All very, very relevant, very good questions, but I think that was quite - so we've worked a lot with them.

I know our project managers had a lot of discussion with them to. To make sure that we're not interfering with any of their infrastructure. And yeah, we, Manchester Central own the car park that's immediately, sorry, TFGM own the car park. Manchester Central lease it from them. That's immediately outside our entrance.

So fortunately, they're very, very supportive, but they permit all our vehicle access to site and things like that.

So there's a lot of partners, really important partners that have generally been supportive, but there is a lot, a lot of, a lot to go through for the project managers.

Simon Pitkeathley: 00:11:11

And if, I mean, just to build on what Kate's saying, that I meet very few people like, you know, there's one or two objectives, but I meet very few people who are not really, really interested and excited about this project. You know, they want it to succeed and they want to help wherever they can.

It's not that we're running into these sort of computer said, no type people, it's just bureaucracies don't do this stuff. It's outside the norm. And so you're, you're testing their systems, you're testing their approaches.

Sometimes you meet people who have opinions that can derail you when it would be much better if they, you know, just - you didn't ask because they weren't particularly relevant.

But most of the time we, I mean, you know, Network Rail, Camden Council, Mayor of London, all the people that you'd, you know, really are genuinely excited and behind this project, we just seem to generate a lot of treacle in this country.

Sally Flatman: 00:12:07

o from both of you, hopes for: 2026

Simon Pitkeathley: 00:12:15

uff. Well, my, my fantasy for: 2026

I think that's probably not realistic, but I think that we, you know, we just continue this process of working away at it. I think, you know, that we have more, that the goodwill really kind of keeps building. I think that's what helps us in the end. It's the momentum.

It's the goodwill of the people around you. You know, when people realize you're trying to do something that is going to benefit everyone, it's going to be free.

No one's making any money out of it. It really does kind of excite people. And it's a shame when people take that, you know, decide that they don't want to hear that.

But those people are very few and far between. And so just more of that good energy, I think, is what we need.

Sally Flatman: 00:13:03

I remember the people from the New York high line saying it's about the magic. People realizing that kind of magical part of it that kind of inspires people. Kate what about you?

Simon Pitkeathley: 00:13:14

Sorry, I was just gonna say.

And some of it, you don't really experience the proper magic until it's open or a bit of it's open, you know, which is why I think what Castlefield have done is so great.

Sally Flatman: 00:13:24

And Kate, for you, hopes for: 2026

Kate Picker: 00:13:29

Really positive returns on those contractor tender processes that are out - that would allow us, I think we would love to be able to start work certainly on the structural repairs and some other areas next year.

And just that additional funding coming through as well. I think we're really keen to get phase two going. So that would be the ideal progress for next year.

Sally Flatman: 00:13:52

And just how do you stay positive and inspire your teams when it is difficult? It is challenging.

Simon Pitkeathley: 00:14:04

Is that for me or Kate. Well, I mean, it's interesting we both paused there, wasn't it? Oh, God, no. There's an element of, you know, fake it to make it a bit.

Sometimes you get bad news and you just got to kind of keep, keep the smile, keep working it. And it's, it's rarely, it's very rare that you get something that feels terminal. It's much more that you get. Oh, God, yes we still gotta do another round of this. Or, you know, and it's just keeping yourself up and motivated and remembering why you're doing it and how amazing it's gonna be.

And those trips you did to Paris or to New York or to Castlefield, you know, and that, that, that, that helps. And then hopefully that translates to your team.

Sally Flatman: 00:14:44

Kate.

Kate Picker: 00:14:46

Yeah, I think speaking to what Simon was saying earlier, it does help us to be open.

So being able to just go up there and chat to visitors and them just really enjoying it and seeing it as a new green space and some of the community work that we've been able to do as well. I think that helps. I think it does help that we have people up there. It's an extension to what we're already delivering.

So if you do need motivating, you can just go and stand on there for a bit and have a chat with some people and answer some questions and remember how much everybody up there really enjoys it and I think you're right about the magic and I agree with Simon. Once you're up there, it's a lot easier to see it.

So it's just reminding yourself of that magic maybe as well when. And going and talking to the people that are enjoying it.

Sally Flatman: 00:15:32

And I think I was lucky enough, I was lucky enough this July to go to New York and walk the New York High Line with Richard Hayden, who is so excited by that High Line and so, you know, inspired by it. And it is the most inspiring kind of High Line, basically. It's fabulous and it's being used so much.

Does that still offer inspiration to the two of you?

Simon Pitkeathley: 00:15:53

Yeah, very much so. I mean, I think I always remind myself that actually the French did it first. The Paris High Line was in fact the original.

And I think the first time I walked the Promenade Plantée, was, was in some ways when I got it, you know, and so, so it takes me back to that. That's, you know, in a sense, the New York did it bigger and better in lots of ways.

But there is something really nice about the simplicity and the originality of the, the Paris one that I really like as well.

Sally Flatman: 00:16:19

And Kate, you've yet to visit the Paris one or the New York one. I think there's got to be a, there's got to be a road trip, hasn't there?

Kate Picker: 00:16:26

Yeah, the project team I visited. It's just that I haven't had the opportunity to do so. Yeah, definitely. I'd really be interested to go to the Paris one actually as well.

The kind of the original one, I guess. But I'd love to go to New York and say no.

Sally Flatman: 00:16:42

e all meet again this time in: 2026

Who knows, you know, we'll be back on the Jurassic park looking at how it's going. But, but I'm excited for both of you and keep going because I, I just think it's inspiring watching your tenacity and your determination to wade through that treacle. Because not everyone would other projects have fallen by the wayside, haven't they? But you, you guys keep going. And that is fabulous for all of us.

So back to that garden twinning.

I spotted this when I happened to visit the website of Claire, the garden editor.

There was just a line saying that her garden had been twinned to provide training in sustainable agriculture to a family in rural Kenya for a three year period. So I contacted her and asked her why she decided to twin her garden through a charity called Ripple Effect.

Claire: 00:17:45

I was thinking about this this morning, thinking how did I find out about this charity? And I think I had twinned other parts of my life. Like I twinned my bin. I think I twinned my toilet.

Or someone had gifted me a toilet for Christmas, which is fantastic.

And I'd heard of Send A Cow as it was, and I used them for various presents and I came across twinning your garden and I just thought, what a brilliant idea. My background is in gardening, but also in sustainability and in climate change.

And we have three key things we talk about in climate change, which is we adapt, we mitigate and we finance.

Because the people who are most affected by the effects of climate change are the ones who have probably least caused it, but they're in the front line. And I thought, wow, something here which is combining my passion for plants and sustainability. And so I got in touch, I ordered my kit.

I was absolutely delighted. It was such a great thing to see.

Sally Flatman: 00:18:44

It's such a clever idea, isn't it? And such a simple idea. There are so many people out there growing and this is about connecting with other people who grow.

Claire: 00:18:56

Yes. And it's that lovely echo around the world of growing in community, in sync with each other in completely different contexts.

But I just loved the idea that it was going to help a kind of regenerative agricultural learning.

So something which is really practical, really rooted in good science and in actually our changing climate and just help people feel that they're connecting in a way. That's something which is really important to many.

Many people in this country are really keen gardeners and they want to do their bit, but gardening is necessarily rooted in your place. So how can you reach around the world? So that's why I thought it was just such a brilliant idea.

Sally Flatman: 00:19:34

Tell me a bit about what you do.

Claire: 00:19:37

So I run a sustainable garden practice which helps people improve their, their gardens without costing the earth. So we do design, we do co-gardening where we come and garden with you in your garden.

Because it's never like in the books, we do talks, increasingly do things where we come and do what's called an edit. So we come and either chat to you in your garden for an hour or write up a report and say, this is how you can improve your garden.

So we're rooted in sustainability, but with practicality, design and 'real worldness' about ourselves, if that makes sense.

Sally Flatman: 00:20:12

So what did you do in a former life? Because you talked about working sustainability.

Claire: 00:20:17

Yeah. So I had. I had a really big job. I was... I'm a former government lawyer and I was head of the UK's Climate Change and renewable energy legal team.

So five years ago, COP26 in Glasgow, that was my team, we were running that, delivering a worldwide conference on saving the planet in a time of COVID. For many years I ran all the renewable energy auctions, so all the big things in the North Sea where we build massive wind farms. So I have that background, which is also a lot of Latin. But I didn't grow up gardening. I came to it in my 20s, before it was cool and funky.

So I would go to Chelsea when I would walk in and halve the median age. And so I had to learn by failing. I failed so many times in so many ways. And then I went back to plant school and retrained.

So the garden editing combines this kind of love of planet and plant, but also it's rooted a lot in the science of climate change, what we can actually do. I've done the international stuff, national stuff, but I do lots of community and just actually helping people in their own gardens.

It really gives people practical, sensible stuff to do rather than kind of worrying too much about the big stuff, because we can't all fix the big stuff. But we have a lot of power in our own back gardens.

Our back gardens are bigger than all the national parks, so power is literally there in our back gardens to do things.

Sally Flatman: 00:21:44

Now, having seen the twinning on Claire's site, I looked up Ripple Effect and realised this was a charity I knew well from my days as the BBC Radio 4 Appeals producer. In fact, I'd worked on a couple of appeals with the charity under its former name.

It's changed its name to Ripple Effect to reflect the work it now does. So I got in touch with them and chatted to Anne Hatton, who's the community manager at the charity.

I know this charity from my days working on the Radio 4 Appeal, many days, and I remember you as Send a Cow. But I also remember that there was an occasion back in the 90s when, when they was just the most fantastic appeal for Send a Cow.

It went really well. It was, it was extraordinary. Who was that and what was that? Can you remember?

Ann Hatton: 00:22:34

I, I can't remember all the details about it, I'm afraid, but it was the Financial Times and it was big and people noticed us. It was a very successful article in the Financial Times.

Sally Flatman: 00:22:49

Yeah. And at that point, people weren't doing this kind of work, were they?

They weren't kind of almost asking people to give and equating that with what you could buy. Was that the case or was it just that send a cow was such an attractive proposition that we were all just - Oh, send a cow.

Ann Hatton: 00:23:07

We were the first virtual catalogue, virtual gift catalogue.

So now we, we send out Christmas catalogues where you can buy a whole range of different gifts, but they're virtual gifts and you can gift those to friends and relatives and you get a little card. It could be, I think it's £5 for poverty busting pineapples, for example. It makes a great gift and it's a really wonderful way of raising funds for our work in rural Africa.

Sally Flatman: 00:23:44

So how did garden twinning come about? Tell me about that.

Ann Hatton: 00:23:49

twinning started in September: 2020

We work with farmers who live on the front line of the climate crisis. So their challenges are very real and they're very everyday.

And we're noticing that, you know, farmers in the uk, farmers or gardeners in UK have these challenges too. They're affected their gardens, their produce, their crops are affected by the weather, which is erratic.

We don't know what our summers are going to be like, what our winter is going to be like, and it affects what we grow here in the uk. But for families in rural Africa, that is, who are dependent on the land, that is about whether they can provide food for their family or not.

So there's a connection between growing.

Sally Flatman: 00:24:53

Have you been to visit the projects in Africa?

Ann Hatton: 00:24:58

Ah an absolute honour and a privilege to go and visit the projects. Thinking about it now, it sends shivers up my spine.

Every project we visited, the whole community came out in force with joy, excitement, singing and just so what a welcome. If you're going to be welcomed, that's the way to be welcomed. But the excitement of showing what they'd grown.

I met a lady called Pascalina, she was 78 and she hopped from one foot to the other. Just so excited to be able to show me, show the rest of the team or what she had been growing what she'd been doing, and it was just amazing.

She talked about the challenges, of course, and the challenges were particularly frost and hail and how those damaged and destroyed her crops, her cabbages, her beetroots, her carrots and all the other things that she was growing. But just simply by her using raised beds, Keyhole gardens and covering them with banana leaves made the whole difference to her.

And she was just growing things. And then she told me, she said, please taste my beetroot, which I've cooked for you, and tell me that I'm a good cook.

So, you know, the produce that she was growing was really important and life changing and she was able to feed her grandchildren who lived with her, and it was such an honour and a privilege, but it was exciting for me. But it was also exciting for the, for the communities as well that we visited.

Sally Flatman: 00:26:44

What percentage of the farmers are women?

Ann Hatton: 00:26:47

65% of the farmers we work with are women and 50% of those are widows. So we work with the marginalized people of the communities and give them a voice and yeah, so women are really powerful people and by the end of the project, they have a voice and a real big part to play in the community.

Sally Flatman: 00:27:16

I think we have a clip actually as well from one of the women who's been impacted by that.

Ann Hatton: 00:27:23

Yes, Lucy, Yes. Yeah.

And if it's the, the clip that I think you've got, she's showing her cabbages, they're just in abundance and she's excited to share that because what she had before was very little and she was struggling to feed her family. But now with the training that she's received and the hard work that she's put into her smallholder farm, she is growing in abundance.

She's growing enough to feed her family three meals a day, send the children to school and have surplus to sell and develop an income. And, you know, she's resilient with that knowledge that she's got. She's resilient to future shocks, be it drought or flood. Covid.

So, no, diversifying the income is really important and part of the training as well.

Claire: 00:28:20

In this county I'm one of those people who are lifting up the economy because of you Ripple. There was no other person. They taught us that in life you don't have to depend on one stream of income.

And by now I can say I have about seven streams, the Veg garden, the coffee, goats and sheep, the mango farm, the maize farm, because I sell them the chicken and many more. My children will not sleep without food at least we will have to them to eat and store them and at least sell the surplus. I'm happy, I'm a happy person.

Thank you.

Ann Hatton: 00:29:08

And then, and then, sorry. She then shares her knowledge. I mean all our farmers are just so amazing. (laughs)

They share their knowledge and skills and training and passion with, with others in their community and beyond. So that's where, that's the ripple effect. That's, where we are. That's why the name, what the name means and why it's important.

Sally Flatman: 00:29:32

When you say farmers, we might have an image of a, well not even necessarily a huge farm, but a bit of, but a farm in our minds. Is it the same as a farm in the ones that you visited?

Ann Hatton: 00:29:45

No. We have big farms, don't we? We have a lot of land but for our rural farmers it's small.

A small amount of land can produce a huge amount of crops and be life changing. So it could be just the backyard yard where they might have bag gardens where they grow.

They have their bag or sacks where they have, have soil inside and they may be planting carrots and onions and beetroot, all these different things in a bag and that, that can be producing quite a lot. But then they'll also have different kinds of, you know, raised beds. Our farms in the UK don't have raised beds.

Like these are the things that make the difference.

Sally Flatman: 00:30:33

So in a way these, these farms, these small holdings could be the size of some of our gardens or our community gardens where we are growing?

Ann Hatton: 00:30:44

Absolutely, yes.

You know, some will as they having more income with the success of their crops, they might rent more land so they might have more, but you know, to start off with, they'll have their back gardens and work with that.

Sally Flatman: 00:31:05

So if someone twins their garden or their community garden for startoff, what does it cost to do that?

Ann Hatton: 00:31:12

So for an individual garden it's 60 pounds. And that supports one family for three years of training in sustainable gardening techniques, social development and business skills.

So the whole range of our training program and that's for three years. A community garden is 120 pounds. So that could be a school garden, a church garden, an allotment, whatever you consider your community to be.

So that 120 pounds will support two families for those three years. You also get a poster and an opportunity for somebody to come and do a talk.

Sally Flatman: 00:31:54

So you will hear a little bit about where your money's going and, and how it's being used.

Ann Hatton: 00:32:01

So in your pack you get this lovely wooden plaque that you can put in your garden to remember that you have twinned your garden with Ripple Effect and to show other people too. So you too can have that ripple effect. You have some seeds, some wildflower seeds.

You have some top gardening tips from Charles Dowding, our no dig expert, and you have some cards with information in them about how to make some of our African garden techniques. So the Keyhole garden and the Bag garden, for example. So that's what you get in your pack.

Sally Flatman: 00:32:45

You started in: 2020

Ann Hatton: 00:32:49

It's going really well. People love our garden twinning. Last year alone, nearly 600 people twinned their gardens and there was £35,000 income as a result.

So that's just amazing.

Sally Flatman: 00:33:02

So basically, by twinning your garden, it's a symbol you are supporting another gardener, small farmer, small holding in Africa that you are working with. Basically, it's showing that you support another gardener.

Ann Hatton: 00:33:18

Yes, in rural Africa and in one of the countries that we work in, which is Ethiopia, Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda, Zambia and Kenya. So we work in six countries in those rural communities so far from the cities.

Sally Flatman: 00:33:33

And what's your hope for garden twinning? What would you love to see?

Ann Hatton: 00:33:37

I'd love to see it really take off, that more and more homes across the UK will have their gardens twinned, that people will know that brand, that they will recognise it and that they will talk about it and be excited to be having that plaque in their garden to say, yeah, we've twinned our garden with Ripple Effect. Have you?

Sally Flatman: 00:34:00

I wondered where Claire has put her wooden plaque to show her garden is twinned.

Claire: 00:34:05

So I deliberated where to put my plaque. It's sustainable forest timber. So I was thinking, this is lovely.

So actually I put it on my shed for a long time, which was very, very nice, but not many people passed my shed. I then put it in my very, very front garden, which backs onto a road for a while, so of meanders around the place.

I quite like that it kind of comes on journeys, but where it is in pride of places is in lots of my talks, I do lots of talks to gardening clubs and societies and I say, when I do my talks about climate change, I said, one of the most powerful things you can do is twin your garden. And I have photos and I say, this is the Christmas present for the gardener in your life, just twin your garden.

Sally Flatman: 00:34:50

I hope this has inspired you as much as it has inspired Claire and now me. I will put the links for Ripple Effect in the show notes and on the episode page on ourplantstories.com the podcast website.

So that is it for series three. Another 20 plant stories and offshoots, making 66 in total. Thank you for listening.

me. I'll be back in February: 2026

But if you want to know what's happening behind the scenes of the podcast, and there will be lots happening, then sign up for the weekly blog at ourplantstories.com and if you have a plant story and you want me to dig into it, find an expert for you to talk to, discover more about the plant, the history, just email me sallyplantstories.com

Our Plant Stories is an independent podcast presented and produced by me, Sally Flatman.