In this compelling episode, Dr. Steve Pasin, a thought whisperer deeply versed in mind/body medicine, explores how our deepest mental constructs—formed even before birth—shape our entire being. Drawing on over 60 years of clinical experience and research, he reveals how the fetal sense of control becomes a lifelong tyrant, perpetuating illusions that undermine health and authenticity. His message? True healing springs from embracing absolute truth, not from comforting opinions or cultural narratives.

Dr. Pasin underscores that our thoughts can rewire our entire bodies—not just our brains, an idea rooted in the principles of epigenetics—where beliefs, trauma, and emotional stress leave tangible imprints on our genes and physiology. He illustrates this with a powerful anecdote: a woman whose breast cancer emerged in the emotional fallout of divorce, vividly demonstrating how relational trauma can manifest in physical disease.

If that weren't enough, Dr. Pasin’s groundbreaking insights are captured in his book, Taming the Fetal Tyrant: And Its Ancestral Delusional Love Stories. This work—available in both paperback and Kindle editions—delivers 236 pages of unapologetically direct, evidence-based exploration of topics like truth, megalomania, human nature, culture, epigenetics, love, and medicine Amazon+1tamingthefetaltyrant.com. In Chapter 6, he delves deeply into how our thoughts and environmental beliefs influence genetic expression and health across generations LITERARY TITANGoodreads.

Featured Book

Taming the Fetal Tyrant: And Its Ancestral Delusional Love Stories – Buy on Amazon

Well, welcome, everybody, to another episode of Adult Child of Dysfunction.

Today we have with us Steve Passen, dds, and he is a thought whisperer with a deep understanding as to what generates thoughts, why, and how dysfunction comes to be.

And I am super excited about this conversation because I think it's going to be a different one.

It's going to be kind of a different angle and a different perspective on some of those cliche, what I like to call these cliche comments that we hear about the, the healing world in general.

So welcome.

Steve.

Hi.

Glad.

Glad to have you here.

So I'm just going to jump right in because you made a comment right before we started, and I was like, okay, that's an interesting different way of looking at something.

But you said to me, hope.

What did you say?

Hope and healing.

Hope is not healing.

What did you say?

Hope was not necessary for healing or hope.

You don't get healing from hope.

Right.

You said you don't get healing from hope.

So I'm going to let you jump right in and talk about that.

And I might interject here and there, just, you know, because that's just my nature.

But go ahead and tell us why you don't think that healing is.

Or hope is healing.

Hope, I believe we spoke about, has to do with wishful thinking.

And just because you wish for something doesn't make it happen.

Something other than that has to happen deep inside of you.

Which is why I call myself now a thought whisperer, because I know what's inside of all human beings.

I know that sounds outrageous, but I have spent over 60 years researching it from a.

Not just from a sociologic point of view, but from a medical point of view as well, which is why I wrote the book that had a chapter in it called Epigenetics.

And that facility is what human beings use because we don't know that we use it.

And I found out about epigenetics late in my, relatively late in my research, because I was looking for the capstone of mind, body relationship, and it didn't exist, you know, over 10 years ago, which is kind of where I stopped my, my research, because I never thought it was going to be accomplished.

And then all of a sudden I went back on the Internet to find out if something more had been done concerning where I was heading and popped into existence epigenetics.

So talk about the basic.

Yeah, talk about.

So for the people listening, because some people have never heard the term epigenetics.

Right, right.

Epigenetics is a mechanism that we use where outside of the genetics, molecules that are created by thought can attach to the genes and modify gene production.

Because genes are just a code for the production of biochemicals in your body.

And you have the model, you have the way to modify that.

And the.

And.

And the trials and tribulations that human beings have is a result of their unknown mechanism use of epigenetics on their own genes.

And then because they don't know what's going on.

That's why I'm here.

They don't know what's going on.

They make things up.

So as far as store.

So they make things up.

I'm gonna just ask questions as I.

As I'm unclear because this is a totally new for.

And a lot of people listening.

This is totally new.

So they're un.

They make things up as too far as.

As far as like what they think happened because they don't really have a conscious memory or what are they making up.

Human beings are fantastic at pairing P A I R I N G if you see lightning in the sky, way back in our ancestral.

If you notice the title, one of the words of the title of my book, Ancestral Delusional Love Stories, it goes back to our cave days and we have so little changed.

So we see lightning strike in the sky and then we make up things as to what that means.

Of course, 40,000 years out of the cave, we have found out what it really means.

It's just an electrical difference between what's in the clouds and what's on earth.

But to the cave person of 40,000 years ago, from which we're derived and still derive, we are 40,000 years out of the cave, but only 5ft from its entrance.

We are unbelievable human beings and we kill each other over the different notions that we make up about the natural events we see in our lives.

We'll go to war over it.

You don't think so?

Just do a little bit of research in human history and see how many wars.

And I'll go even further.

How about the wars not just from the war room, but to the bedroom.

You fight with your significant other over what?

Your righteous indignations.

All of those thoughts create the epigenetics for health and disease just from having an argument with your significant other, to say nothing of China or the Ukraine or Putin.

It goes on and on.

And nobody has seen this because I've put together the cultural aspects of our humanity with the biological repercussions of those cultures.

So when we started the conversation, we were talking about hope not you Know and health.

Right.

Hope is just being made.

Listen, you could pray to the.

If you're a cave person, you can pray to the God of an oak tree or a birch tree or a sequoia, all of which, you know, have different powers because you say so, and you have the hope.

The hope, if you will, that they have that power.

They have no power.

The power that they have is in the placebo effect of it.

And the placebo effect has everything to do with epigenetics.

So then how do you.

So you're telling people not to have hope?

They could have anything they want, dear.

I would.

I would, as a doctor, I would just assume have them have an understanding of what caused the illness rather than the hope.

The mere hope.

I'll call it the mere hope of getting out of it.

How about if we go there?

Okay, let's try.

Yeah, let's try that one.

Because I'm gonna.

I'm gonna.

I'm gonna challenge you, because I want to.

If.

I mean, if we're coming out, we're saying some pretty bold things.

People are out there right now.

And how many people.

I mean, you got Tony Robbins, you got all these people out there as these bajillionaires that are saying, you have to have hope, you have to have faith.

So what are you, like, okay, now, from a.

From a scientific doctor's point of view.

Yes.

In the very beginning of our conversation, I said, I go by definitions, right.

And I use it.

I use it a lot in my book.

Let's go over some definitions just so you'll see where these gurus are coming from.

What?

Everybody has an opinion, Correct?

Right.

We say we're entitled to an opinion.

Correct.

Wait till you see where this goes.

Is it.

Is an opinion a bias?

Of course.

Good.

Is an opinion and a bias of prejudice.

Of course.

Is an opinion and a bias of prejudice also a faith?

A faith.

If you believe it, then, yeah, you could say that.

How could it not be?

How can it not be?

What, are there people who do not like you?

You personally?

Oh, yeah, I'm sure.

Sure.

And is that their faith of you?

Yeah, I guess if you followed it back that deep.

Yeah, that beat.

That's how you get ill. Because we follow it back that deep and we don't even know we do.

So I'm coming from the point of view that an opinion is a bias, is a prejudice, is a faith.

Okay.

That you are right in whatever you conjure up in your mind.

So in.

In this example, it would be why?

So like the faith, the belief that you're right.

Someone not liking me like that, they have this valid reason to not like me.

As an example.

Absolutely.

Show me where I'm wrong.

Remember, we.

Before we even just got onto this thing, I said, I want you to prove me wrong.

Yeah.

And you want to.

Not that I want to be argumentative.

Of course, I do want to be argumentative, but I've spent over 60 years researching this.

I know the human condition.

These gurus, they just talk about the superficiality of it.

So how do you.

If Tony Robbins says you can walk on.

On hot coals, how do you do that?

How do you.

How do you do that and not get burnt feet?

I don't know.

I did it, so I'm not sure exactly how it worked, honestly, because I did walk on those.

No, I didn't burn my feet.

Well, one little ember kicked up and burned the top of my foot.

But here's the.

Here's the key.

You'll love it.

What was your mental.

What was your mindset at the time?

Everybody else was doing it, so what the heck?

And was there anything about status?

Like, if you didn't do it, you'd be seen as being afraid, and you don't want to be seen that way?

No, I just kind of knew that so many people had done it, so I didn't really think that there wasn't in that situation, but I can see where there probably was for a lot of people that were afraid and they were like, oh, no, I got to do this.

Everybody's watching me.

Everybody's talking.

Gonna talk bad about me.

But no, I was just like, if everybody else is doing it, why can't I?

And for you, that might have been enough to change the physiology of your body so that you didn't.

So the proteins on the bottom of your feet did not get denatured.

How do you like that?

Yeah, you're right, because I don't know the.

Like, I. I still don't know how it works.

When you walk on coals while you.

Don'T burn, it does not happen by magic.

It does not happen by faith.

Well, a faith, if you will, that you can do it like you said you could do it.

Right?

But ultimately, all of this stuff in our bodies has to boil down to the chemistry in our bodies, and you can control it with whatever thoughts you have.

My coming to this is.

I'd rather believe in the truth of it rather than in the faith of it.

Okay, so big, big difference.

Yeah, no, I. I get you on there.

So let's take for instance, like you said, you were talking about disease.

Talk about that like in this whole theory.

So you would rather people not have the.

So what do you want them to have instead of hope that this disease is not going to kill them per se?

The truth of the cultural beliefs that they have need to be understood, accepted for what they are, which is nonsense.

And because we now have a critical mass of scientific evidence derived from millennia of science to say we now know why these things happen, you can have all the faith and bias and prejudice that you want and your opinion of it, that's not going to change the science that has been derived over the millennia.

So how I'd rather see people believe in the science of it than in the religion of it.

So if they believe in the science of it, what can they do with this epigenetic thing to change the outcome?

Can they change it?

You did.

When you walked on the coals, you didn't know you were doing it, but there was a chemical produced.

I don't know the exact chemical, but there was a chemical produced that prevented the proteins from being denatured and burned in your feet.

And look how local it was made.

It was made specifically for the soles of your feet.

It wasn't made for your palms, it wasn't made for your forehead.

It was made for the specific body part needed to overcome the local insult.

Which is why the top of my foot got burned when the embers splashed on it.

Evidently.

You see how you can put this together?

It's not magic.

Do you know there are people who have shown that they've had their fingers cut off in machinery at work, didn't know they were bleeding until somebody pointed out that they had lost a finger.

And when they pulled their hand out of the machinery, it started to bleed.

Why is that.

So their thought made.

It until they realized that they were injured.

They were.

They.

They.

The normalcy of not bleeding.

Because the thought was there that they had their fingers and.

And no place for the blood to leave their body once they saw that the blood could leave their body and then the pain would start.

Listen, as a dentist, I know something about pain.

Oh, I bet.

I bet.

So there.

Pain is very subjective.

You could use pain on a significant other and really have it because you created just to prove to the other person that what they're doing to you is wrong and if they weren't doing it to you, it wouldn't hurt you so bad.

I've seen it.

So, okay, so then what do you do with this information, like this is cool, but what do I do with this?

What do the people listening do with this?

Live in truth.

Live in truth.

So going back, I'm going to push you a little harder.

Going back to the disease.

Okay, so you go to the doctor.

By the way.

By the way, I'm going to interrupt you just for a second.

Break up that word disease.

Yes, I know.

Dis ease.

I do.

I break that up a lot.

Okay, so it's.

So you are, hypothetically, you get diagnosed with.

I don't know, I don't like to use the word cancer, but the C word.

But let's just go there.

What do you do with that if you don't want to have hope that it's not going to kill you?

I'll give you a.

An actual case that that occurred in my family.

My father's sister.

And it's in the book, you know, so you see.

Which, which book.

I'm going to write down some of your books so I can put them in the show notes.

Which one's that?

Taming the Fetal Tyrant.

Taming the Fetal tyrant and its ancestral.

Delusional love stories.

Okay.

Ancestral delusional.

Delusional love stories.

I had already written that one down.

Okay?

That's all one, One word, one title.

A title and a subtitle.

One title.

Okay, so Taming the Fetal Tyrant and its ancestral delusional love stories.

Okay, I'm going to put that in the show notes because this is intriguing, this is different.

So keep going.

So she went through a very bad divorce.

I was 17 years old at the time and I was asking myself some questions.

Was there ever a relationship as to the disease that she developed as a result?

At the right time, you see, it was a timing thing as well.

How does an event in your life trigger cancer?

Which evidently in my mind, as a 17 year old with no doctoral degree, I made that connection just by watching it.

Right.

So her husband cheated on her, wanted a divorce.

Evidently in her mind, she didn't deserve it.

There's a lot of that going around in divorce, Right.

And she may have had a very different idea as to whether or not what type of person she would be if she went through a divorce.

She wasn't able to hold a family, a husband, you know, whatever it is that she had held in her own mind.

From a cultural point of view.

This is where culture comes in, right?

So she developed breast cancer.

I looked at that and I said, why breasts?

Why not cancer of the toe?

Why not cancer of your nose, why not facial Cancer, Skin cancer, liver cancer, lung cancer.

You think there was a.

A reason, if you will, for breasts being involved in a divorce?

Yeah, there's got to be.

It's.

Yeah, it's.

It's absolutely just the fear of not repl.

That sexuality part of it.

That's right, because in this culture, breasts are seen as a sex organ, Right?

They're not the secondary sex characteristics.

But in this culture, you know, you flash them around and you can sell cars.

So the thing was, I went back to the anatomy that I was taught.

I said, you know what?

Every single part of the body has a nerve ending going to it.

That's why you.

You feel being scratched or pin pricked or anything else, you know, that you feel.

Right?

Where do all nerves come from?

The heart?

No.

Well, you see, that's where the science needs to be understood.

You just had an opinion, a bias, a prejudice, and a faith that nerves come from your heart.

All nerves stem from the brain.

Okay?

They are actually brain extensions to the periphery of the body.

I guess I was picturing blood, not.

Not nerves.

Yeah, I know, but that's enough.

That's enough to throw your chemistry off, your belief system off.

And your belief system is necessary for health and not dis.

Ease.

You only get.

No, you only get.

How should I put this from a negative?

You only get no dis.

Ease.

In truth.

And whenever you're challenged by anybody for your belief system, that's a dis.

Ease.

Every thought, every thought creates a chemical in your body for the thought you're having.

And those chemicals, by way of the nerves get transferred to every single cell of the body.

All.

All transmitted, if you will, in the complexity of the brain.

Because they're like billions and billions of nerve connections, right?

Maybe trillions.

Yeah.

I read somewhere that every single nerve, every single neuron has 30,000 connections to all other neurons.

That's an auto.

That's an auto.

An awful lot of connectivity.

Yeah, it sure is.

So you can't divorce.

I mean, these are just anatomical facts.

You can't walk.

You can't walk away from that and say, well, the oak tree did it.

You can, but you're going to get oak tree medicine, and if that satisfies you, by all means, do it.

I have no objection to it, But I'm not a. I didn't spend this lifetime, and I don't.

I don't believe that I have any other.

This is.

This is as far as it goes.

I believe.

Because you can't prove it.

Right.

You see, on either side of life, Interestingly enough.

And we'll get back.

And we'll get back to the.

To the nerve thing, you know, with the brain and my aunt.

But on either side of life is a void.

And sandwiched between the two voids is life.

So as you have no recollection of what it was like before you were born, it was a void.

And you'll have no recollection of what it was like to die because once you're dead, there's no consciousness of all the pain or suffering that you may have experienced before the death.

So life is in between the two voids.

You make it up as you go along.

There's no reason for your life.

It.

It comes from just because there's.

The thing about.

Interesting thing about life is if you are so special and, and this is just existential.

I just want people to be existential with what.

And I think people know this.

Every time a man and a woman get together and they want to have a child, how many sperm does a man make?

Billions.

Hundreds of millions.

That's a big difference in billions.

Okay, millions.

Hundreds of millions.

A couple of hundred million.

How many eggs are there in the ovaries?

A lot, but they just drop one a month.

That's right, about 20,000.

Okay, now tell me, why are you so special when the chances of you being born are 1 in 20,000 from the female point of view and 1 in 200 to 300 million from the man's point of view?

Why are so many sperm and egg necessary to make you if you are special?

Because if you're special, you don't need all those chances to become you.

You get the point?

Kinda.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nobody lives.

Nobody lives with that truth.

And by the way, my definition of truth.

My definition.

Yeah.

It is my definition because I have to make up a new one.

A definition that people could use.

Like I made up a new definition for stress.

If something is the truth, it has to be true for every single person on the planet.

Yeah.

To be truth, that would make sense.

Or else it's a.

It's subjective and it's otherwise.

It's otherwise, it's an opinion bias.

Prejudice in the faith.

Yep.

See how that works?

So you only have two chances.

Two choices in this world.

One on either side of the hand.

In the palm is truth for everyone on the planet.

And on the back of the hand is opinion bias, presence and faith.

Anything you have in the way of an idea is one or the other.

There's no third option, period.

Examine it.

I told you before we met Prove me wrong.

No, I'm trying to think.

I'm.

My brain's spinning right now trying to think of an example that could prove you wrong.

And it's not.

I'm not coming up with one.

Don't worry, you won't.

It's no reflection on you.

It's just that mankind has not fought in this direction.

They harbor the thoughts from the cave.

Yeah.

Only science got us out of the cave.

And if.

If some cave person developed a wheel, that was science, that was engineering.

And they could get out of the cave even faster and go even further from the cave with the wheel.

It beat walking.

And then they had.

Then they had.

They made axes and bows and arrows and stones and spear points and all that kind of stuff, which was fantastic technology then, but it was all science.

Right.

It had nothing to do with.

With the oak tree or the palm tree or the.

The river flowing a certain way or.

You know, how about this?

How about a rainbow?

You know, you notice the.

The reference to rainbow in the Bible.

Yeah, but I never.

I never understood.

Oh, sorry.

God's promise he would never flood again.

Right.

Does a rainbow mean that or just what they conjured it up to mean?

Yeah, that's a story.

It's definitely a story.

Yeah, there's.

Yeah, you're right.

There's science behind that too.

And you know who figured out the science of a rainbow?

Sir Isaac Newton.

That was all science.

Anyway, that's the frustrating part of it.

Getting back to my aunt and the breast cancer, what happened there, and in further researching it, because my whole life has been to prove myself wrong.

So I wanted to see if my conjuring, if you will, of how.

How the mind creates cancer could possibly be.

So right away I had the.

I had the event.

Bad divorce.

I had the mindset, a woman, my aunt's point of view, that perhaps she, you know, shouldn't be going through this.

She didn't deserve it.

You know, she felt she was a good mother, a good wife, and she was being dumped by a significant other which had everything to do with her sexuality, which was then mentally from.

And anatomically connected to the cells of her breast because those were the sex symbols of being dumped by a significant other.

And then you and I, we don't even know what the internal belief system of her husband was and which.

And hers concerning what.

What the breasts represented in their.

In their relationship, in their marriage.

Right.

So there are plenty of people who wind up getting, you know, this kind of problem just from altering the chemistry that's produced at the end of their nerves from mind.

No, you want.

You want some of the science behind this?

You ready?

I want some of the science, and then I want some how to's.

Okay.

Well, the how to is going to go back to truth.

Yeah.

So what happens is you've heard of breast cancer genes.

Yeah.

And there are also cancer remission genes.

So the research shows that you can turn these.

You can turn on a breast cancer gene with stress hormones.

Cortisol, adrenaline.

Cortisol is a hormone that's released during stress.

Adrenaline is fight flight.

Now, imagine going through a divorce, not having to feel that you fight flighting.

Should I run fight?

It's totally that.

And now you mix that with cortisol.

You mix that with the change in dopamine and serotonin and oxytocin, which was the bonding chemical that you want to keep going with because you might still have the feelings for the guy, but he doesn't want you.

So look at the chemical mix if you will.

All of this.

All of this is Tony Robbins's faith.

See how this works?

It's not magic.

And then not only that, all these combinations of hormones turn off tumor suppressor genes.

You should write that down.

I just did.

Now, if you can turn off a gene that suppresses tumors and activate a gene epigenetically by stress, can you see how you wind up getting disease and the cancer?

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Your body no longer has the ability to suppress the.

The cancer, and it has every ability to create it all from the chemistry that you are experiencing being created by the event you're interpreting in your life.

That's how life works.

It's funny that you use this example, because I have a very good friend who is going through breast cancer right now, and she just got a divorce.

And I literally was at her house about three weeks ago, and I said.

I said, tell me, how much of your cancer do you contribute to chronic stress that you've been going through for the last 10 years?

And she said to me, 100%.

I rest my case.

I saw this at 17 years old.

Yeah.

So now give us the answers.

Like, how do we.

How do we.

Let's see.

Okay.

When.

When I talk to people about this, I say, what is the.

Are you interested in what the self is?

Do you think the self plays any part in your development of illness and disease?

No.

Yeah, I do.

I mean, what, your sense of self?

Yes.

How could it?

How could it not?

Right.

See, also notice, do you feel to some degree you're hedging your answers with Me?

No.

No, there's people, a lot, a lot of people, when I ask them, is an opinion a bias, a prejudice in the faith?

They say sometimes maybe that's a hedge.

No, if you.

No, because if you literally look at, like you said, there's only one answer.

It's either yes or no.

That's right.

It's very black and white when it's that kind of thing.

So.

And that's another issue.

There's no such thing as gray.

Gray is a hedge.

Now here's, here's how this works.

There are gurus who claim to be self help experts.

I defy them to define the self since they're an expert in it.

I want to know what it is that they are improving.

I can.

So what is your definition?

The definition of self is the human nature.

They're, they're inextricably connected.

Now what's the human nature which is going to be the self?

Now get ready.

I'm ready.

I'm writing down.

Do you, do you ever want to lose, be controlled, be dominated and be wrong?

No, not.

No.

I mean, that means the other side of the hand, as we talked about, is you always, never ever not want to win control, dominate and be right.

That was the comment you made before we came on, where I was like, you're going to talk about this totally different concept and theory and it sounds so aggressive, but it sounds so real.

Win control, dominate and be right.

That is the self.

That is the human nature.

That are, those are the thoughts that are built by your culture, which gets into the fetal psychology.

You see that, that the culture tries to strip so that you could become a functioning member of the culture.

Otherwise you are a megalomaniac like Hitler, Stalin, and even some of the politicians people believe in today.

Yeah, but they just make it up.

They don't, they don't know that they're megalomaniacs.

If you disagree with somebody, they're a megalomaniac.

But does it ever occur to you that to them you are a megalomaniac?

No, because you only get to win control, dominate and be right.

They always get to lose, be dominated, be controlled and be wrong.

And you make this up because you're human and it's part of Darwinian evolution to survive.

You do not survive unless you win control, dominate and be right.

You must have us have a survival mechanism.

And all of that is Darwin.

And I don't care how you split this.

There's no way out of it.

Okay, so then how do you change it?

Truth on Every.

Every crossroad, just go that direction.

You have to understand that you are all about winning, controlling, dominating, and being right.

All of those are thoughts.

Every thought creates a chemical in your body for health and disease.

You get to create it all.

So if you.

If you win control, think and dominate and be right, then you can beat your disease?

Yes, within reasons.

So you could make everybody else wrong, which is a way of winning, controlling, dominating, and being right.

But then you're going to ostracize yourself from the social nature of what it is to be human, and you can get sick from that and not even know you're creating it yourself.

So it's important to know, let's put it this way, important to know what hill you're willing to die on.

Whatever point of view you are having with a significant other, are you willing to die on it by creating the chemistry necessary for the health and disease as a result of that point of view?

And what is the determining factor?

Truth.

Remember, you could have a point of view to win control, dominate, and be right.

But is your point of view the truth for everyone on the planet?

Can you prove your point of view scientifically, which is what it takes to be the truth?

Because I see all.

I see that you live in a.

In a place, you know, a domicile.

Right.

Was this.

Was there science necessary to build that?

Oh, at some point, yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, yeah.

And the frames and the furniture and the art on the wall and the car you drive and the food you eat and the.

And the electricity you use in the refrigerator to keep your food fresh.

All of that was.

All of that was provable scientifically.

That was not a subject to opinion, bias, prejudice, faith.

Oh, and yes, it was.

Because somebody could say, now, you can't make a machine that'll keep food cold.

You need a block of ice that has to be brought up from this, from the street vendor up to your house, you know, with the ice tongs.

Remember those days?

No.

No.

Well, I've seen pictures of it.

I'm too young for it.

I grew up with refrigerators.

I did, too, but.

Yeah, yeah, but do you see the point I'm trying to make?

Yes.

You can make up stuff about anything, but if you want the chemistry of your body to stay stable, homeostatic, you got to start thinking in terms of truth.

Because when you have a point of view, you're going to be made wrong.

And your human nature will not tolerate being wrong because you want to win control, dominate, and be right.

It all fits, every piece of the puzzle fits.

It really does.

That's the unbelievableness of my life's work.

I didn't.

I felt it when I was 17.

I even felt it when it was earlier.

One of the first inklings I had of all this was when I was 10 years old.

My parents would, you know, have people over, they would argue about stuff.

My father was a compulsive gambler.

So he, he was very righteous, very type A personality.

And I listened in.

The thing that the 10 year old figured out was that everybody thought they were right.

No argument was wrong.

And yet they argued.

I'm not the only 10 year old who have figured that out.

Which now goes back to the idea children think.

Children have very poignant points of view and they're not subject to the nonsense that their parents have accumulated culturally.

They ask why, they ask why, why, why, why?

And the parent sometimes smacks them.

Shut up.

Now, what do you think that sets up epigenetically?

You see, the kid had a thought, he was rebuked, he was made wrong, his human nature was insulted.

Now all of a sudden he gets a disease later on in life.

Do you think they.

Do you think the parent or the child makes that connection?

That it happened then?

Yeah, but it did.

See, epigenetically, he made you make chemicals like the adrenaline and the cortisol, even the oxytocin, dopamine, serotonin, all of that kind of stuff is mixed.

So you get your nuance of emotion.

Right?

So you'll get it and you'll change the genes production.

Certain genes will not make the chemicals that they're coded for, for homeostasis, that.

But later on in life you can, if it's determined that it happened as a result of the need for psychotherapy, you go to a psychologist, they talk you through it without drugs, because psychologists can't issue drugs.

And guess what?

Oh, I've had a revelation.

I don't see it the same way anymore.

So you, you reversed your epigenetic profile and you do that every moment of your life.

And when it really gets bad, you go to war, which you see what, you see what I'm saying?

Yeah, no, I got you.

It is so simple to see.

Once you see it, other when you can't see it, you're just bumping into the walls of life trying to figure out why you're bumping.

So the best, your best advice for people that are out there listening is every, every crossroad, go with your truth or what you believe, what you.

No, no, not your truth, not your Truth.

Well, the truth, as far as the.

Yeah, truth for everybody in the world.

That's right.

Stuff that you can prove.

If you can't prove it, discard it, it's worthless.

Now you'll be holding on to that idea, whatever it is, for some other purpose.

There'll be a payoff, psychological payoff, for holding onto it.

But that's going to have to be worked out sooner or later, later on in life.

It could be very cumulative.

Because just because you do this thing to one gene doesn't mean it doesn't happen to others.

Because one gene's product affects another gene's product.

Right.

That is how a muscle and a bone have so two very different physiologies.

And they're connected to each other because once a bone cell and.

Or a muscle cell stimulated the other to become what they are.

We know this now.

This is.

This is not.

Oh, wow.

Hello.

Hold on.

There we go.

So I say you don't have the right to have an opinion.

You don't have a right to a bias, a prejudice or a faith, because look what it has done to the world.

Now you're going to object to that.

I know it.

Who are you to tell me I shouldn't have an opinion?

Go ahead, have an opinion.

But let me ask you, have we proven that an opinion is a prejudice?

Well, we have proven that it is a prejudice.

But where, where are the thoughts then?

What do you.

Who's thinking what then?

Or are you allowed to think them, you're just not allowed to share them?

Look, if you're allowed to have an opinion, that means you're allowed to have a prejudice.

Does that sound right to you?

Yes.

I mean, that's.

Yes, that's accurate.

You want people to.

Do you want people to have prejudices against other people?

No, but they're going to.

That's why you're not entitled to have one.

There you go.

Because you make up all sorts of cultural innuendos concerning skin color and eye color and hair color and body size and, you know, I don't like their lips, I don't like their nose.

I don't like.

I don't like.

I don't like all judgments.

Human beings are great at judgments to win control, dominate and be right.

But it's all chemically, it's all biochemically based.

And I'm just trying to show people that it is so they can at least have an insight, that they have the ability to control it and say, whoops, I shouldn't say that.

I shouldn't think this because it's going to affect my genes.

I'm going to get an epigenetic effect from it.

My genes are going to be altered from what I'm thinking.

I'll go one step further.

It occurred to me that epigenetics and psychological defense mechanisms are related intimately.

Oh, I don't.

Yeah.

But I don't believe you'll have ever heard that before.

Yeah, actually.

Yeah.

Because you've heard that.

Really?

I'd love it.

I mean, in.

I mean, in just the dealing with the childhood trauma and everything, the effects that you have as a kid definitely changes your genes.

I mean, literally physically shrinks your brain, your cortex and I mean, it literally makes a change on your DNA.

They've.

They've definitely shown that.

Yeah, that's the Jeffrey genetics.

But how does it relate to psychological defense mechanisms?

Because if you put one up, you're not doing.

You're not.

It's not the truth.

Like, you're not.

You're just.

I don't.

Let's see.

I'm trying to think how.

I'm trying to word that.

If you put up a defense mechanism, like as a kid, as something's happening, you are not.

You're still altering them, but you're wiring them to not be your truth.

Think of it.

Think of the.

A great psychological defense mechanisms is.

Is denial.

Yeah.

So how does denial and epigenetics intertwine?

Because you're.

You're not accepting anything for truth.

So it's changing, huh?

Your truth, your opinion, your bias, your predators, your faith.

Oh, yeah.

You see?

You see how subtle this is?

You get.

You get.

So.

And it's really not your fault.

You've been.

You've been.

Your culture has taught you this.

It's taught us all.

It's really very much like the Matrix.

You saw the movie the Matrix?

Yes, very much so.

You're just a.

You're just a baby in a bubble.

And if you can get.

If you can become untethered from the bubble, you can see reality.

That's the whole idea.

So here's the relationship that.

And it just popped for me.

When it.

When it.

When it popped, it was.

Epigenetics is a.

Is a local mechanism that keeps the status quo.

Denial keeps the status quo.

That's the relationship.

And it's not just denial.

You know, there's sublimation and all sorts of stuff.

Right.

But all those defense mechanisms are meant to keep you right and not wrong.

It's to maintain whatever human nature concepts, your belief systems intact.

That's what?

That's, that's what a psychological defense mechanism does.

That's pretty cool.

That psychological defense mechanism protects.

Right.

Epigenetic changes.

Absolutely.

Until it doesn't.

Until.

Right.

Oh, my gosh.

So I knew this was going to be very enlightening and like I said, a whole different concept and different thought process.

And I mean, no one's ever.

I've heard of epigenetics.

I've heard, you know, you don't, you don't hear it put that quite.

That.

They just don't put it here that.

For that simply, it's yes or no.

There's no black and white.

It's.

It's pretty cool.

No gray till, you know.

And you know, when people talk about, oh, that's a gray area.

No such thing as a gray area.

It's.

It, it.

The gray area exists in your mind to keep you right in the, in whatever discussion you're having.

I can't.

I'm not going to be wrong.

Well, let's make it a gray area.

Let's make it a gray area.

So when I was practicing, I used to take digital X rays and the program was really kind of fascinating that you put the sensor in the mouth and you flip the switch for the X ray to be taken and the sensor picks up different shades of gray.

Because that's what an X ray is, different shades of gray.

And then what you could do is it has a feature in the program where you can pixelate and you can see what the shades of gray are next to each each other.

Because different shades of gray in a X ray can denote the disease.

Because when something is supposed to be white on an X ray and it's dark, it could be an abscess where it should be white, you know?

Right.

So you could, you could, you could drill down into this program and see the different pixels and they're all gray.

They're all squares of gray.

But relative to each other, there's no shade of gray.

Every single pixel is absolute.

It had.

And the machine will even give you a numeric value for that particular shade of gray.

Now you're going to tell me there's a shade of gray in human interaction.

Listen, either it is like you said, or it is not.

It's not.

It's either going to be this number of assigned to this gray or that number assigned to this gray.

Don't tell me that you're righteous about your point of view just because you want to be right.

Because in the end, it's just going to be your Opinion bias, prejudice, and faith, which you cannot prove, is the truth for everyone on the planet scientifically.

You just can't.

So I tap, I, I tap you, I tap you, I tap you on the shoulder and I say, thanks for sharing.

Awesome.

I love it.

I love it.

Oh, my gosh, this has been so enlightening.

Thank you so much for this, Steve.

Are we done?

Yeah, I guess.

I don't know.

I want to go on forever.

I know, I know.

Well, okay.

So what are you doing now, like, out there?

I know you're retired.

You're retired, right?

I don't practice dentistry.

I'm still licensed, but now my, I got a new, A new thing in life, which I didn't even.

I didn't think I was gonna have to do.

My job now is marketing my book.

There you go.

So tell us about your books.

Well, I only have one book at the moment.

Okay.

I'm working on a course.

I got, I gotta.

All of a sudden I'm learning all this stuff like I learned dentistry.

You know, you sit down, you sit in a room, and you do stuff for four years in dentistry, and then you go out and practice.

So I, I have not.

I've been working on the book for decades, but it was just published last October.

So now I'm learning how to, to spend the next four years, if you will, hopefully not marketing the thing.

Like, I had to market myself by learning what it was to be a dentist, all the procedures that you have to do and all the instruments that you have to know and all, you know, all that kind of stuff.

So.

And then along the way, I continue practicing.

I, I.

You want to stay young.

Yeah.

Keep your, keep your mind working.

Yeah, fine.

Find, find your passion and don't stop tweaking it.

And you'll, and you'll come up with revelations, as I believe I've come up with revelations.

Oh, yeah, you definitely have.

And that's my advice always to people, is keep your mind going, keep your mind fresh.

Because I, it drives me crazy to think.

I mean, how many years ago was it that we used to think, oh, if you get a traumatic brain injury or something, that's it done.

Your brain doesn't grow, your brain doesn't change, your brain doesn't move.

And we know better now.

It's a muscle, like, you gotta exercise.

Because it wasn't true for everybody on the planet to begin with, those assumptions, right?

But they were made to what?

To win control, dominate, and be right?

Yes.

You can't get away from the human nature.

You Just can't.

Everything is going to be filtered through it.

Yep, you're right about that.

As soon as you understand that, what happens to the stress level?

And we haven't even gone into what stress is yet.

Oh, I know.

Yeah.

Because as soon you just let go.

You're letting go of trying to control everything.

Once you understand that, it's.

It's got to be liberating.

Now watch this.

Since.

Since you.

And this is the beauty of it, because you just triggered this in my mind, you.

When you said you got to let go of it.

Right?

What are you letting go of?

Your bias, your belief, your.

And that translates ultimately into what.

You'Re only holding.

You're only holding truth.

We're.

We have to know.

You see how we're not thinking this way.

Human beings are.

We're.

If we think this way, the.

The.

The stress will be lost completely.

Everything, everything has to be based in your biochemistry.

So when you say you lost, you know, you lost your stress.

You have lost the desire on this particular subject matter, whatever it is you're fighting over.

You've lost your desire to win control, dominate and be right.

Which means you've lost the production on your own.

You've lost your own production of adrenaline because now there's no more fight flight, there's no more cortisol to block cancer suppressors.

Right?

See what I mean?

Yeah.

All because you gave it up.

And what did you give up?

You gave up an opinion, a bias, a prejudice of the faith, which was not true for everybody on the planet.

But you are so willing to get sick over it.

And you do.

And it's not your fault, you know whose fault it is?

It's their fault.

Because if they weren't this way to you, you wouldn't be this sick to them.

Well, excuse me.

I love it, love it, love it.

So, man, I could have you back on again.

I want to have you back on so we can just talk.

Nothing about stress, everything about stress.

Just because.

Let me tell you what stress is.

We haven't even done it just to show you along the way.

I didn't even realize it.

I became a biophysicist because I. I developed.

And it's in the book also.

It has to do with how we use our mind to become what we are.

We have to use the energies of the universe.

And people just talk about that like they know what they're talking about.

The physicists, you know, sees things from a different point of view.

Everything, all particles, electrons, protons, quarks, everything has an Electromagnetic field associated with it.

There's your energy, and that is what gets suppressed when you make cortisol or adrenaline.

Yeah.

Get rid of the extraneous thought chemicals that you.

When I say thought chemical.

The chemicals you think into existence by way of thought, and you'll be able to choose differently which is which quantum energy field you want to have accessed in your life.

See, here we go again to the truth.

Yeah, I'm not talking.

I'm not talking about stuff like, oh, I'm making it up and where does it say it in my good book?

And, you know, all of that kind of stuff.

Listen, those sources of information come out of the cave, and do you know how many other there are?

This is fascinating.

This is what I tell you.

Everything you need to know about the human condition to win control, dominate, and be right.

How many religions are there on the planet?

Do you have any idea?

I have no idea.

How about 10,000?

I was going to say a lot.

10,000.

What does that say about the human brain to conjure up 10,000 different religions, all of which have to win control, dominate, and be right against each other.

And so we'll go to war over it.

There it is.

But you see, going back to the quantum physics, if all the.

If all these energy fields, they're superimposed on each other like a deck of cards, each card is superimposed on another.

That deck is now called cohered in physics.

You go through an event in life, you make a decision.

That's what happened to me, is 5 years old.

So I went from 5 years old to 10 years old to 17 years old to getting, you know, a doctoral degree and then come up with the book.

That's.

That's been my progression.

So you have a deck of cards, you.

You splay the cards open and you say card, any card, right?

Mm.

And that.

That is what you're going to choose to be in your life by choosing that.

That card that decoheres the dick.

Right?

Have you.

Have you ever heard of the double slit experiment?

No.

The double slit experiment was the physicist's way of proving that light energy, the photons, have a dual nature.

One is a wave nature and one is a particle nature.

And if you shoot photons through a slit.

Two slits.

There are two slits, and you would figure that the photons will show up on the wall further downfield from the slits.

They'll show up as two vertical slits, just like the two vertical slits the photons are going through.

Not.

So what happens is, after the photons leave the slits they interfere with each other.

How do you know that?

Because the interference pattern you see on the downfield wall indicates that the wave.

The wave has been made from the particles, and those waves are interfering with each other.

Just like when you throw two rocks in a pool and the waves cancel each other out.

Yeah, the ripples, they cancel.

And where they don't cancel out, they show up as bright lines down, you know, downline, you know, to the second field, to the second wall.

So that proved that there was a dual nature.

But what caused the particles going through the slits to then become waves?

The proof of which was the interference pattern.

The only thing they came up with was the measurer, the scientist who was in the room monitoring the measurements.

He was the only extra, extraneous factor that could have made a particle turn into a wave.

And now, since all particles have wave properties, you can take the cards out of the deck, which is a wave, and in so doing, you create a particle.

You ready for this, Tammy?

Yep.

The particle was my life, my lifelong professional quest.

How does a thought become a biological molecule that affects physiology in a body?

We do it.

We do it.

We take one card from the deck and we say, this is what I'm going to die.

This is the hill I'm going to die on.

Now, that doesn't mean you can't put the card back in the deck and choose a different card, which would be changing your mind or getting a remission in a disease.

So you now have the ability to use the energy of the universe because it was there, whether you believe it or not.

Now, now, you can call it a God if you want, but that doesn't make it a God.

It just makes it your cultural rendition of what's going on.

To a physicist point of view.

Right?

Ain't happening.

But you can insist on it and go to war over it.

And people have.

You don't believe like me.

I'm going to kill you.

You don't look like me.

I'm going to kill you.

If you're Hitler, Slavic people should not be alive.

Certainly not Jews.

Okay?

So put the card back in the deck, please.

Let's stop this.

50 million person dying.

War, World War II.

Yeah, and we do that.

We do this on a minute basis in our own lives.

Crazy.

Crazy.

We create the energies for that which we are, and we don't want to take responsibility for it.

We go into denial.

Yep.

Wow.

Full circle.

Came full circle.

That's right.

All pieces fit.

And just to top off, here's the cherry.

Stress.

I know you have it.

I know you experience it.

But I also say you don't know what it is.

So tell me.

Not in terms of what we just spoke.

Not in terms of what we've just spoken about.

No.

Yeah.

Stress is anything that you think is wrong.

And with that, you can do a much greater attack, if you will, on stress than you can if you use Hanselye's definition of stress.

When he first came up with it, the general adaptation syndrome, he said, stress is anything you react to.

That helps.

Yeah, right.

You're reacting by laughing, you know, nicely to what I just said.

Is that stress?

Yeah, it is, according to him.

Because you're reacting to something.

Anything you react to.

But what do you.

What can you do with.

Stress equals wrong.

Stop thinking in terms of wrong because you're so damn righteous in a point of view you cannot prove.

The card of which you're drawing from the universe's energy will be the hill you die on.

And you think it's worth it.

Yeah, that's me.

I'm gonna be right.

I. I heard my own parents say I gotta be me.

They even had a song.

Sammy Davis Jr.

Sang it and Frank Sinatra sang it.

It's called I Gotta Be Me.

Yep.

What else could I be but what I am sorry for the voice.

It's all good.

But it's not as though other people know this stuff.

They just haven't put it together.

So it makes any sense.

Yeah, no, I mean, it's so simple and just.

It just.

I mean, I'm sure people are listening to this and they're going to go back and listen to it a second and third and fourth time to really wrap their head around it.

Because it is so simple at the end of the day.

But that's not how we live.

How does it affect your.

How does it affect your life that you went through the double parenting?

How do you interpret that now?

Oh, the.

I mean, I guess I just not think.

I guess just re.

Erasing.

Like the.

I mean, I've let go.

Like, again, let go.

There we go with that word.

But just not having that.

Judgmental, like, just not having it.

And I. I mean, I've done a lot of that, but I know years ago I didn't.

Like, if I had heard this 20 years ago, I would have been like, kiss my butt.

Like.

Like a lot of people are going to do now.

I been like, I don't want to hear this crap, you know, because they were wrong and they did me wrong.

And, you know.

Yeah, but look at.

But now use the material, the whole idea was to show people that they have the ability.

Yeah.

Two parents, both alcoholics.

Right.

What causes alcoholism in a being that must win control, dominate, and be right?

What causes alcoholism needing to have control?

What causes alcoholism in a person, in a being that must win control, dominate, and be right?

Alcoholism is caused by the perception of being wrong, being dominated, be controlled and not winning and losing.

So it's.

Yeah, so I was.

Yeah, I didn't go all the way through, but yeah, the need to be in control.

That's right.

So that.

That's what your parents were fighting over within themselves to be alcoholic and then with each other.

Right.

And you were caught in the tidal wave, Right.

And you took it as a.

As a kid, you took it seriously because, you know, maybe.

Maybe you did something wrong.

Right?

You did nothing wrong.

They.

They screwed you up.

You had nothing to do with it.

Just like kids think, well, maybe I caused my parents divorce.

Get out of here.

Right?

What do you know?

What do you know about the world that you could, you know, cause a divorce between two adults?

Right?

So you make.

So look how early it is that you become, you know, ingrained in winning, controlling, dominating me, right?

Oh, it's me.

And then you wind up getting.

You draw that card from the quantum energy fields, you live it.

And then later on you wind up getting metabolic syndrome.

Where'd that come from?

I don't know.

So then you go to the psychiatrist, maybe he sorts it all out.

And then in an instant, you lose the weight, you lose the adrenaline, you lose the cortisol, you create the oxytocin, you're creating dopamine and serotonin.

And all I have to say is.

Wow.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

Yes.

So profound.

Thank you so much, Steve.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I will be happy to come back if you want me.

Yes, I would love you to.

I want to.

I might even break this into two episodes.

I'll have to think about it.

But I think this is such valuable information.

And so, like, it's so simple, but so, like, mindboggling at the same time.

And I took notes and I'm going to listen to it over and over again as I'm sure the listeners are going to as well.

But if people want to get your books and everything, I'm going to put all your links in the show notes.

Is there somewhere that they can go specifically to have access to you specifically?

I'm working on it with my marketing team.

I'm almost finished with my.

What they call it pod print on demand.

Feature on my.

On my website.

Okay.

Which is Taming the Fetal tyrant dot com.

But they could also get it on Amazon.

Okay.

It's there.

Like I said to me, I got the next four more years figuring out how to market this thing.

You'll figure it out.

They'll help you.

You'll get help with that.

It won't take you four years because it needs to get out there.

It's such a simplistic, yet con.

Like, so much profound information in that.

So you could pick up.

You could pick up the book and see what it's like.

I haven't.

You know, it's hard to do this all in one, like, in an hour or so.

So it is.

It definitely is.

You'll see.

You'll see some of the.

What the issues, if you will, that I have that went into the book, which had to do with the human condition.

You know, I'm 77 years old.

I've seen people do unbelievable things to each other.

I live through the Vietnam.

The Vietnam War.

Yep.

Oh, it's.

With all sorts of questions there about the human condition.

Well, I will.

We'll.

We'll have.

I'm gonna gather questions from my listeners because there's going to be a lot.

I will ask you questions as they come up, and maybe we'll have you back on in like a month or so, and we'll do this again and just do a Q A.

But this is super fun.

Thank you so much.

You want a round table?

I'm.

I'm good.

That would be super fun.

Thank you.

I have a lot of.

I have a lot of people that would really are going to love this episode.

People that I can think of.

How many people.

How many people watch your show?

I don't even.

I don't even know.

I'm.

I'm.

I get excited, but I. I don't know.

I know when it hit, like, the top 10, I was like, oh, you know.

But I'm not a great marketer, so I'm working on the marketing.

Did you say top 10%?

That's fantastic.

Yeah.

But thank you.

But I'm just.

I just like doing it.

So I haven't, like, really jumped into a lot of the heavy marketing, which I'm getting ready to start learning how to do myself.

So that'll be my next four years, too.

We can learn together.

Yes, always.

So thank you again.

And for everybody else out there listening, go back and listen to it.

Take notes.

I mean, it's so simple, but yet so profound.

And when you run up against that choice.

Choose truth.

Right.

Choose truth.

And know how to get to it.

And know how to get to it.

So thank you all.

And you come back and see us.

Bye.

Thank you.

Bye.

Bye.