In this episode of 'More Than Work,' Rabiah sits down with Freddie Titcombe, co-founder of Evolve Journey. Freddie shares how he and his brother turned their personal journaling practice into a bestselling all-in-one journal and a thriving community focused on reflection, action, and accountability. He discusses the challenges of building discipline, the importance of balancing the four pillars of happiness, and how Evolve Journey helps people move from feeling stuck to making real progress. The conversation covers Freddie’s career journey from tech sales to care work to entrepreneurship, the power of community, and practical strategies for building better habits. Plus, Freddie shares his favorite productivity tool, the story behind his “Eat the Frog” method, and answers the Fun Five questions.

00:00 Introduction to More Than Work

00:26 Meet Freddie Titcombe & Evolve Journey

01:08 Freddie’s background and the start of Evolve Journey

03:10 Journaling, reflection, and building a business with his brother

05:07 Why blank-page journaling didn’t work—and creating a better system

08:07 Developing the all-in-one journal and its unique features

10:14 How the journal blends gratitude, habit tracking, and productivity tools

12:00 Advice for people who struggle with daily journaling

14:16 Launching the Accountability Academy and building community

17:00 Coworking, office hours, and the power of accountability

20:00 Consistency, discipline, and the value of partnership

23:00 Balancing health, wealth, relationships, and freedom—the four pillars of happiness

27:00 The “Eat the Frog” productivity method explained

29:00 Building confidence and overcoming self-doubt

32:00 Freddie’s career journey: from tech sales to care work to startups

36:00 Sam’s background and their complementary skills

39:00 The importance of service, helping others, and finding balance

43:00 Fun Five Questions

48:00 Freddie’s inspirations and how to connect with Evolve Journey

50:31 Closing thoughts and credits

Note from Host:

This episode took me way too long to get from recording day to publish day.i Ihad to deprioritize or maybe just reprioritize the podcast for a little while. The next one will be out soon too and was recorded during the same week.

I loved chatting with Freddie. We had fun and he shared a lot of wisdom along the way. Personally, I’ve started going through the journal he and his brother sell and think that journaling, in some form everyday, is the way to go. It is a form of mindfulness and can really compliment another practice. Check out Evolve Journey after you listen. 

 +++++ 

Find Freddie

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/evolve.journey

Website: https://www.evolvejourney.co.uk/  

 +++++ 

More than Work Social Media: @morethanworkpod (Facebook, Instagram) and @rabiahcomedy (TikTok)

Please review and follow anywhere you get podcasts. Thank you for listening. Have feedback? Email morethanworkpod(at)gmail.com!

This is More Than Work, the podcast reminding you that your self worth is

made up of more than your job title.

Each week I'll talk to a guest about how they discovered that for themselves.

You'll hear about what they did, what they're doing, and who they

are.

I'm your host, Rabiah.

I work in IT, perform

standup comedy, write, volunteer, and of course, podcast.

Thank you for listening.

Here we go.

Welcome back to More Than Work everyone.

So this week I have a guest that actually came to me via email and I checked out

his website that him and his brother put together and their product, and

I'm really excited to talk to him.

So it's Freddie Titcombe and he is the co-founder of Evolve Journey.

So thanks for being on Freddie.

Thank you.

Thanks very much for, for your prompt reply to my email and for having me.

It's, uh, exciting to chat to you.

Yeah, you hit me on the right day.

'cause someone might be listening who's contacted me and been like, ah, I've never

heard from you, and that's possible too.

So just hit me back up.

But, um,

Yeah.

but, uh, let's see.

So first of all, where am I chatting to you from right now?

I am down in Devon at the moment.

Um, yeah, I've been here for the weekend visiting, visiting my parents

and catching up with some old friends, so yeah, down, down by the seaside.

Hopefully we won't get interrupted by the terrorist seagulls that are out

there like dive bombing everyone in the garden and coming in my parents'

house and eat, eating the food.

That's a new trick that they've learned.

they come in?

Yeah.

It, it's, I think if they evolve one step further, they might figure out

that they could actually kill us.

I if they wanted to, if they ganged up, you know?

Yeah.

Or maybe they'll, they'll like own property.

You'll have to go into their house.

yeah, yeah.

It's one of those where it's like if they did evolve to do that and they, um, like

killed one person in a group, then the human reaction would be so aggressive.

It would be like wipe seagulls off the face of the Earth immediately.

It would, there would be a hashtag for sure, right?

I see seagulls, but I'm in Camden in London, but pigeons are kind of like

the seagull of Camden, I think, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

there's a comedian and I know that refers to them as like lads, like

just on the corner, just hanging out on the corner, walking around.

I'm like, yeah, they totally are.

And it's just, um, yeah, it's wild.

So, yeah.

And uh, yeah, seagulls are awful.

I know.

It's like the birds you see most and like the birds you dislike the

most right, are seagulls, pigeons.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Um, and you've got people that they've never seen them before when they come

here and there's loads of them and then they feed them and then the, that the

whole thing gets worse and worse and,

yeah.

Yeah.

We were like hiding underneath an umbrella yesterday with my

friend and his kids whilst they, so that they could have snacks.

That's, that's what it's come to.

that's, that's wild.

I guess, um, I'm gonna tie this together, but you were talking about

seagulls evolving into possibly murderous birds, but your company's

called "Evolve Journey", which is about a different type of evolution.

So, what, what is Evolve Journey?

So Evolve Journey is a business that me and my brother set up, um, back in 2020.

Um, at the time if you cast back, we were in a position where like we were

best mates and then all of a sudden, uh, we weren't allowed to see each other.

So we were like, this sucks.

Let's start a business that would keep us chatting, that would keep us busy.

And the first few iterations of that business were just like,

um, really crass moneymaking schemes and all the rest of it.

And in the, in the process of iteration, we, we had both started journaling

and then one day the, the penny dropped and we were like, wow, we're

actually getting quite a lot from this, this journaling, uh, and the

reflection, it's helping us take action.

It's helping us get clear on the direction that we want to take and then

stay consistent, which is something we'd, we'd struggled with before.

So, we were like, okay, cool, let's level up our journaling game.

And then we looked out there because all of a sudden the blank page started

to become a little bit intimidating.

I dunno if you've ever sat down to just journal and you're

like, whoa, where do I start?

What am I saying?

It feels kind of cringey.

You're like, what am I talking about?

So for us anyway, and I know it is powerful for some people,

the like freeform journaling, but for us it just didn't work.

So, we were like, let's buy one.

Um, and we went out there and then it was just like a slog of

really cringey, repetitive stuff.

We actually felt worse from writing down three times a day, what am I grateful for?

What am I grateful for?

And like, like a week in, you're like, I dunno, I really dunno.

And I'm just saying the same stuff and I'm not getting anywhere.

So we, the penny dropped and we thought that we could do

journaling in a better way.

We back then in, in 2020 then spent, um, yeah, hundreds of different

iterations, working through to create our own all in one journal.

Um, and then fast forward to today, it's like the bestselling

all in one journal in the uk.

Um, and when I say all in one, what that means is inside the journal, you

have a discovery course, which is where you start, and that's your journey

that helps you to remove limited to get clear on your vision that you

are building towards your, um, your main focus that you're gonna set out

in the, in the coming up journal.

So that really primes you ready for the the "evolution", the

journey that you're about to go on.

And then after that, we have a, a daily system that is a blend of, um,

gratitude, habit tracking, different productivity tools like Eat the Frog.

And then there's some stoicism sort of mixed in there as well.

And some, some unique questions to get you thinking to, to basically take you on

a journey, and get you from lost, stuck, confused, wanting more to consistent

and moving in the direction that, that you are, um, you're excited about.

Great.

Yeah.

And it is, it is intimidating and, and uh, just even in writing,

like non journal stuff sometimes.

For me, like just in, in comedy specifically, like, it'll be like, well

write a joke about a subject and it's just like, no, you know, I can't, or

just write down ideas for five minutes and something will come up or whatever.

But then.

Sometimes you can get going and sometimes you can't.

Especially it is, journaling can be very isolating and a, a thing that's

you do you, well, it is very isolating.

It's something you do on your own.

You're not necessarily gonna share it with anyone unless you're gonna publish a book

of your journals eventually or something.

But it's, it's a exercise that then it's easy to stop doing and easy

to just skip because no, there's no accountability other than to you.

And so I think, um, you know one thing, I, I read through a lot of what you guys

are about and I'm getting my journal soon and I'm looking forward to trying it

out 'cause I think it's something I need and just, um, we had talked personally

like last week about some things, but I think, what do you tell someone who goes,

well, I'd buy it, but I tend to end up skipping a day at some point and I'm not

gonna be able to stick with it every day.

What do you say to them?

Yeah.

I mean that for me, that is completely fine.

And it's almost like part of the, the process that there's, we're not,

we're not trying to journal every day.

It's like, you know, it's, it's a tool that we can fall back on, that we realize

if we do it, we have a better day.

If you go on holiday, our journals are very focused on appreciating what

you have and doing more in a day.

Essentially, if you were to boil it down into a nutshell.

On holiday, you are naturally, you don't need to kick up the ass for that.

You, you are appreciating the holiday day.

It's great.

And you don't need to be more productive.

You're trying to do the opposite.

So you, you wanna have a break from, from journaling, maybe.

The, the interesting part is that then you break the habit, you break the cycle, and

then you come back from holiday and then all of a sudden you, you don't journal for

the first week that you're back and then you start having these conversations with

myself like, oh, I've stopped journaling.

I remember when I used to journal.

That was good.

Oh, it's just difficult and there's a bit of friction.

So, yeah, I, we always recommend to just treat it flexibly.

It's a system that you can use and adapt to yourself.

And then, um, where, where we've come as a business, um.

Recently we launched, our accountability academy, which is an online community

of people that are using the journal, um, but wanted an extra bit of support

and feeling like they're going on a journey with other people that

helps them stay, stay consistent.

So people are using that as a way to sort of that extra little

reminder and motivation to, to keep on with the, with the habit and,

and go that step further as well.

Yeah.

And so how's that work with the it's people?

Do they just join a Facebook group and they, they journal together?

Or what, what is the accountability part and what's happening with, with,

Yeah, sure.

So, so they, they come on to our, our online platform and inside there

they've got everyone else that's on the, on the same journey with them

and there's tons going on there, but we've got things like, uh, co-working

sessions happening every week.

And then that people can join.

It would look like this, me and you, except we'd be silently working.

And I found it incredibly useful since I started doing it because

I am, I realized how much, when I think I'm working, I'm not working.

So when I'm in those sessions, I'm very aware that if I'm gonna pick

up my phone and then start scrolling through my phone, that's not work.

And I'm aware, 'cause I set my intention when I go into to the coworking

that I'm gonna do this one thing.

I'm aware of just how much I'm a scatterbrain of like task switching.

I'm always productive when I'm there, but I'm going between different things.

So it's actually helped me go deeper into specific exercises.

So there's that, which is the coworking.

We have, uh, regular office hours where people can come in and have a chat.

So that would be like, I'm struggling with this blocker at the moment.

Any advice?

Or sometimes people just wanna feel like someone's in their team, so they

join in and they're really proud of something they've done 'cause they've

been taking consistent action towards.

Whatever their goal was, maybe like something in their career or their,

uh, their business or something toward, towards their, their health and they

just want to, to feel like celebrated.

So, there's that part as well.

And then we have weekly check-ins with people, and that's where we provide

the accountability, help them identify what their biggest blockers are.

So I could go on, there's, there's tons going on in there, but it's,

it's an exciting project and it's the first time that we've had.

Regular FaceTime with the people that are using the journal, and it's

been really cool to see the community that we've built just in action,

live, working together and, and how people are building themselves up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So the, the thing with the whole coworking kind of thing, I had told

you that I was recently diagnosed with A DHD and I had no idea I had it.

So it was just very shocking to me.

'cause I always had a bad attitude about A DHD and now I'm like, oh, it's me.

But one thing I heard about was the whole idea of body doubling, which the

coworking sounds very similar to where just there's an accountability just with

someone else being there versus you.

Yeah.

Going off and doing five different things.

I think even keeping it your computer, which, you know, um, I'm not gonna

get up in the middle of this chat certainly, but I will when I'm trying to

work on something, start doing dishes, because of course I have to do them

while I'm trying to get something done.

Right.

But, um, do you, do you find, like, how did you come up with like the different

aspects of what you guys are doing in, in the group that you've created?

Yeah, I, I guess it came from a bit of reflection on our part where we

were seeing some people that were just incredibly consistent with

the Journal and then others that were, they'd come to us and they'd

recognized when they use it that the impacts are great and they love it.

However, they've not used it for two months because of insert reason.

Right.

And they, they were like coming on and falling off.

So, we'd naturally stayed consistent, but quite a lot of that had come from the

fact that me and my brother being business partners were, had the systems that we

were using to hold each other accountable.

We had the weekly meetings where we were going through the system

that we now use in the academy, and we thought maybe there's

something to this that people might

be interested in themselves.

And we sort of went through, uh, it's about 12 months in the making of

like coming up with these different systems, trying them on ourselves

and being like, no, that's gross.

Hate it.

And another one for the bin.

Um, but it's like, I guess.

Yeah, we're, we're pretty open to the fact that the majority of what we do is gonna

be a failure and we treat it as a test and then we go on to onto the next one.

So we basically tested the, the life out of it, and now we're launched for

our founding members, which is the first round of like real tests with

real people getting feedback from them.

And we're treating it like an experiment really, and we're open

to learning from their feedback.

And then we're gonna approve it again, and then release it to, to the wider, wider

public and, and hopefully continue to grow it so we have a, a good percentage of the

people that are journaling if they feel like they want that extra support and that

community that they join us there as well.

Yeah.

Cool.

Is there something that you've, well, first of all, I guess with

the journal, since it's more, it's structured and there are different

aspects that you would do every day.

Then other questions you add in, is there a part that you look forward to the most?

And then is there a part that you go, man, this is still something that's a challenge

for me and it's good it's there 'cause I wouldn't do it if it wasn't there?

Yeah, I think the, the one that I look forward to and dread the most,

depending on what I've written down, is the "Eat the Frog".

So that's the, the productivity tool.

Eat the Frog.

It comes from the saying that if your if your job is to eat frogs, make sure you

eat the biggest, ugliest one first, right?

So what we try and do is either that morning or the night before,

we'll, we'll set the big task for the day, the big frog.

So this is the thing that's gonna have the highest impact on whatever.

Um, we try and link it back into our main mission for the, the

six months that's in the journal.

So, my main mission at the moment, my, we call it "Domino goal", um,

is quite related to the business.

So I will have something that I do every day that I've identified as the

highest leverage activity for that day.

And sometimes it just sucks and it's like a slog and it's something that

you don't want to do and you dread it.

But the fact that you've written it down, you, you know that if you eat that frog in

that day and everything else goes to shit.

Hope, hope I can swear on this podcast.

Uh, go, go, goes to shit, then um, then your day's been a success

'cause you did that one thing.

And then that's how we see people that come to us who are

struggling with, uh, confidence.

They've got quite a lot of self doubt and they are often overthinkers.

We find that having something like that, especially if you make that frog smaller,

you've got quite a nice win each day and then you start building momentum.

And then we've seen those people that struggled with the self-belief sift

into almost confident in themselves because they've got a stack of undeniable

proof over the, the days, weeks and months that they've been able to do

the thing that at once say, like, felt so big and scary and insurmountable.

Yeah.

No, that makes sense.

And I mean, I think even in, um, like I'm a project manager outside of, you

know, podcasting and comedy and other volunteering and things I do, and even

when you're doing your planning, I mean, there's always something you have to do.

There's like the idea of dependencies, right?

Different tasks being dependent on each other, then usually there is one

that as a, in your day you might avoid.

Like I don't wanna write the business requirements for example, but I

have to do that in order for them to build anything, for example, right?

And there's, I think for me, I've thought about that in terms of my life

and like things I have to do and even the, the frog one day might just be the

thing that's burdening you the most.

Like, it might not even be that hard of a task to do, but it's the thing that sticks

in your mind that you're not getting done.

And so it's like keeping you from doing everything else, right?

I

mean, there's all different things for people.

Um, were you, prior to starting this company and starting the journaling

with your brother, which is great that you guys found that, I mean, there

were some positive things that came out of the, the 2020 - 2021 period,

which is we're lucky for, right?

And it's good that you and your brother had each other to, to do that with

during that time but were you, did you consider yourself a disciplined person

before or has this changed something about the way you kind of run your life?

I was an aspiring, disciplined person.

I was like listening to the podcasts, reading the books, try like, I'd always

been consistent with going to the gym.

That was probably one thing that I'd managed to nail since I was like 16

and, and that wasn't for aesthetics or anything other than the fact that

that's the only thing that keeps me fully sane and not stressed,

and it's just so good for my head.

So I've al always been able to identify the, I'd say the reward in going to the

gym rather than any of the punishment.

Okay.

So that that's always come, come easy.

But other than that, yeah, I was struggling with, with

discipline and consistency.

Chasing shiny objects, getting really excited about one thing

until it gets slightly hard,

then dropping it.

And then, which realistically I think if I'd started this business just on my own,

it has got so hard on so many different occasions that I probably would've quit.

Whereas because we've got the the two of us and we hold each other accountable

and we also- quite often- it's been lucky that if one of us is sort of

feeling a little bit pessimistic, the other one lifts the other one up.

And, uh, we kind of like meet in the, in the middle to, to

keep, keep con consistent.

But yeah, dis discipline is not, um, an easy thing and it's not something

that like happens overnight because I think modern day lives, it's very,

very easy to be, keep, be comfortable.

And that's almost like the status quo for a lot of people.

And we're almost rewarded in the short term for avoiding discomfort.

And then in doing so, our long-term situation becomes uncomfortable because

we've not done anything and we've not tasted the thing, and we've not pushed

ourselves outside of our comfort zone.

We then reflect back, and then we have that sense of, oh, I've not

done everything that I could do.

I'm not fulfilling my full potential, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

No, it makes, I mean, it makes a lot of sense, so.

What, I mean, obviously you've been doing stuff before, before you and

your brother started the company.

So you guys have a website, you have your physical product, you

are marketing it, you're doing

basically all the aspects, developing a program that has to, that ability, I

know you can learn some of it, but some of it has to come from prior experience.

So what is your, what experience did you bring?

What's your day job and like and then maybe even your brothers too.

Like what are you guys bringing before this that is letting you kind

of do this, you know, new company that you're doing, um, and just bring

some experience to other people?

Sure.

Yeah.

So I guess if, if I look at my career and where it started, I, I

started like an internship while I was at uni and I went to a big old

school tech sales, cybersecurity.

Everyone was, had a nice little belly and was wearing the suit.

Um, and it.

It just put me off that like the, the corporate world like so heavily when

I was there because I did the classic look up to what I would be if I spent

30 years in this career and I was just like, these guys are just not happy.

The way they talk about their, like spouses is horrible.

The way that they like, like everything that's going on here is just like iffy.

And I don't wanna paint them all with a terrible brush.

'cause there were some lovely people in there as well, don't get me wrong, but

they were kind of stuck and I, I just, I was disillusioned by the whole thing.

So.

When I graduated uni, I then went into working in care jobs.

So I worked with, uh, like the National Autistic Society.

I worked in various different schools, in like homelessness, worked

with the elderly, so a real full spectrum of like helping people on,

on a sort of like one-to-one basis.

And then the disillusion came again because I was like, I went

into that because I wanted to do the opposite of what I was doing

before I went to help people.

And then I was kind of like, this is great and I'm helping people, but

it's such, it's on such a small scale.

So then I, I went and joined a, a startup.

I was like one of the first people to, to enter the company, me and the co-founders.

So I kind of had like the, um, entrepreneurial sort of university at

that point when I joined that startup that I learned a ton from them.

And I also was sort of

saw how exciting it can be to be in a company and if the mission's

aligned with what you want, you really feel like you're building towards

something bigger than yourself.

So that was my history.

So I've got like the, the background in helping people.

And then I also had the, the background in entrepreneurship, sort of that from

shadowing those those successful, um, startup founders in the early stages.

And then for Sam, my brother, he, um, started his own digital marketing

agency, which has been really, really helpful because he's managed to do a

lot of the customer acquisition piece.

Um.

And yeah, he used to be a be a school governor and, and stuff like that.

And he was, he had a similar sales career, which he left in a much more

dramatic fashion than, than myself.

Um, had the packing my bags and starting my business, um, um, mic drop

kind of moment which was cool because he, since then, he is just been out

on his own and, and like having to learn and figure, figure things out.

So we've kind of met in the middle and our skillset sort of overlap and intertwine.

Yeah.

And did you guy is who's older first of all.

Which one of you?

Sam is older.

I'm younger, but everyone thinks the opposite.

Um, I dunno whether that's just 'cause I've aged terribly or because I'm boring.

Um, but that's the, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

But it's, it's cool that you guys have found like what your strengths

are that you can bring to it too, because I think that's a, that's a

strength because like a lot of founders will end up having a strength and

it's vision, and then that's that.

And then everyone else is scrambling around them trying

to sort the business out.

You know, that's what I found, um, in different companies and it's really

awkward and then everyone kind.

Yeah, they're a genius.

And every time I, for me, anytime someone's called a genius, I'm very

like, apprehensive about anything else about them because I'm like, you're

calling them that, that's like saying someone like, oh, how was your date?

Well, they were nice.

Yeah.

Okay.

It's not, you have a lot more to say and you're just being diplomatic.

I don't know.

That's how I feel.

I mean, yeah like, or someone said, you know, says you're unique.

It's like, uh, so you, it's not gonna, we're not gonna go out again, are we?

You know, like,

Well, unless you are, and you found the one because they appreciate the

weirdness and the wonderfulness.

Um,

yeah.

I'd rather be called weird.

But anyway, we can talk about, maybe I'll journal about my

dating and send it to you.

Um, if that's what you help with.

See how

Yeah.

I can, I can feel a viral blog coming on.

Can you imagine?

Well, hey, if we can get, if we can both get famous that way, um, that's cool.

And so do you, so the idea, I mean the, the idea of service and helping others

resonates with me too, and I think I, I admire people who make that part of

their career or make that their career because especially like just with charity

work and stuff, because I think first of all, the money's not there usually.

Like you're, if you work for a charity and you're making a lot

of money, there's probably like a questionable thing going on, right.

With the charity.

But, um, but for me, it's always been part of my life.

So now with Evolve Journey, I think that's an act of service for sure.

But do you have any other ways that you kind of like, um, take care of

that part of yourself that does want to serve others and help others?

Yeah, I think it's been so consumed with the business really and trying

to, um, just focus on that and we, we sort of see it as like every, every

new milestone that we make there, then we can like attribute helping

say, 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 people.

And then you're like, if you wanna get really mathematical about it, then you're

like, oh, and then their whole family and they're probably a family of five.

They help all of those and their work's better.

They probably, there's like 30 people that they're dealing with,

and then you're like, oh man,

Millions.

yes, we've helped the world.

Um, no.

So that's, that's been, um, really sort of like all, all consuming,

if I'm honest, um, in trying to.

Um, especially balance that with keeping the lights on while the, the business is

growing and, and then, um, it, it's an interesting one as well because it's like

You're kind of forced into a situation where you're like, the, the money needs to

be in the business, uh, like a, a metric of success, because without that, then you

can't have the influence to help people.

So it's kinda like, yeah, if a charity's doing that and they're optimizing

for cash, it's, it's a bit dodgy.

Whereas we kind of have to have to do that to be able to then reinvest

into the new products to offer more, to expand to more places.

And, um, yeah, that's, that's it.

no, that, I mean, that makes sense.

And I think, yeah, when you have a business and focus on mean, my

parents had a business, auto repair.

Like a, my dad's a mechanic and my mom and dad ran the business

together and they were busy, you know, at like six days a week.

They were closed one day and then they were working, you know, 12 hour

days and that was just their shop.

And I don't think they ever gave themselves credit for the

fact that they were doing that.

And because then, and then I know when you're running any other kind

of business, it's the same thing.

You don't really have time off 'cause you're the one responsible for it.

Right.

So do you, what do you do to like, make sure that the business

isn't taking over everything.

So you're not like giving yourself kind of what you're trying to

give other people, which is some kind of balance in their life?

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's a, it's a good question.

And I think probably if I was being like, completely honest,

honest, like there's been.

Yeah.

time where there definitely hasn't been enough balance.

Um, however, I think one of the things that makes it a lot easier

is actually one of the frameworks that's inside the journal that we

naturally reflect on quite a lot.

So the, we call it the four pillars of happiness.

And this is a critical thing that we try and keep in balance at all times.

So I can, I can sort of talk them through what the four

pillars are and how we got there.

So the, the four pillars are happiness, are health, wealth,

relationships, and freedom.

And what we, what we say is if you are seriously deficient in any of

those areas, then your, um, your long term happiness and your level

of just your average day happiness.

Is gonna be impeded, basically.

You're gonna struggle to, to have that.

So we try and look at those four different pillars and focus on what we can control

because there's things in those four pillars where you just can't control it.

And in, in like, you know, getting stuck in a, in a doom loop about it

isn't gonna, isn't gonna solve things.

So.

Um, we try and build sustainably each of those four pillars.

And the, the reason for that is the, uh, the head hedonic treadmill.

So essentially there's a ton of research that came out, which

basically means if you've had your leg chopped off, amputated, or you've

won the lottery, you're gonna have a, a massive low or a peak high.

Then you're gonna return down to or up to a baseline level of happiness.

So knowing that that exists, the philosophy isn't around sort of like

chasing the highs, um, the quick dopamine hits, it's more about trying

to build those four pillars up.

So our average day is much happier.

So in answer to your question, how we get the balance is, I would, it's a

question that I ask myself, and quite often it would be my relationships.

If I'm in a work sprint, I'll be like, oh, I've not really spoken

to, and then the like, the list of people that I should have been

speaking to will come up and then I'll go on a frenzy of messaging loads.

Loads of people I've not spoken to in ages.

Booking in the calendar, adjusting things, chopping out different priorities,

and putting in time with friends.

And then before I've even met them, I feel so much better 'cause I know

it's all sort of like planned in.

I try and sort of balance things like that.

But it's a constant balance to be honest.

yeah

. Is it something that you've ever like consciously thought about in terms of

those different priorities or would you say where you try and find balance is

something that just?

'Cause I, I think before I started doing this, I was doing it

instinctively in a way, but not so proactively, if you see what I mean.

Right.

Yeah, I mean, I think I see where.

Uh, not as much.

In the last, well year, I mean this, in the last year, my, the balance has

been off because I, my work hasn't been as consuming as it had been.

And I think I was, I was almost balancing things by always being

hectic, if that makes sense.

Like

I was used to that.

I was used to a certain level of stress where you kind of said,

there's a baseline of happiness.

I had a baseline of stress and I that I operated under, and I think

in the last year I've realized that that's lifted, but not, but I

didn't handle that in a healthy way.

But I think as far as I've been in situations where, yeah, I'm

focusing on one area so much.

And I think where actually I, I, I didn't expect to get asked a question,

so I'm like, oh, what is this?

How dare you?

But my, I think where I realized something was years ago when I was like, probably

10 years ago that I, I was not being balanced at home because I was at my

mom's house and I had, I always had my computer on, always on my lap, always

on my desk, whatever, doing something.

And my nephew sat with me with his iPad and said, and I said, Hey buddy.

And he goes, oh, you're working.

Like he was telling me I'm working.

So he couldn't talk to me and he brought his iPad so he could work.

And I thought that was really sad because it's one of the most

important people in my life.

He's, and he very much is still, and I had made it so that me, not even as

his parent, somebody he saw every day had made it so he didn't feel like I

had time for him because I was working.

And I think that that made me realize like, okay, at some

point you have to stop working.

And plus, I wasn't working for me, I was working for someone else that

was making the money, not me, right?

I was getting paid, but, and so I think that was a big "aha moment" for

me where I was more conscious of it.

Even over time, like, try not to have my phone out as much if I'm with

friends or something, because if they're gonna do that, fine, let them, that's

their behavior, that's what they're choosing to do when they're spending

time with me, but I'm not gonna do it when I'm spending time with them.

So I've thought about it, but not consistently.

I've thought about it almost out of duress a few times, you know?

If that makes sense.

Yeah.

And just subconsciously it's like there's been turning points and things

have just come, come up that have yeah changed the, changed the perspective.

But yeah, that, that's, I think that's what you hit on there is also one of the

interesting parts about the four pillars, because they all sort of intertwine.

So what you were speaking about there is actually, it's like you could

link in and say that's a wealth thing because that's part of your job and

that's how you're earning your money.

But then you could also say, this is a freedom thing because this is where you

are and how you are choosing to spend your time and because of your work situation.

That's.

Like eating up time that you could spend on Insert the, insert the other thing, so.

Yeah.

No, it's true and I think that it's it it is interesting when I think coming

from America, and this is all in the US and there's definitely a different

attitude and mindset around work in the US and there was something about burning

yourself out that was almost rewarded.

Like there would be the idea that you'd thank someone for

ending their vacation early.

Oh, they're a hero because they left their vacation or they were on vacation

with their family and they ended up working for three days with us instead.

And that, and that's really sick because you as the business or the boss, you said

you don't value them at all as a person.

They're just working for you, even in the time that they earned off.

And, um, last time I heard someone do that, I just said like, I thought that

was really gross, because that person should have never been asked to come back.

You know, it's not like you're doing heart surgery or something, or

whatever.

It's just all, it's, you know, you're doing something that's relatively

meaningless in the context of humanity.

And it's like they could have been with their kids.

That could have been a memory that that, that everyone involved

could have taken with them for the rest of their lives, you know?

And that was cut short because of, uh, culture within, say,

a society or, or a company.

Yeah.

it's, it's interesting.

Have you seen about like certain companies that have, I don't know if

it's over in the US but I know it's becoming more of a thing in like the

European UK startup market where they're giving employees unlimited leave and

you think on face value, you're like, oh, that's so nice, so generous.

And then you get, you look underneath the hood and then

you're inside the actual culture.

And then it's kind of like everyone's peer pressured to take way less

than they would've if they just had the 25 days or, or whatever.

And.

It's kinda, see, I can see how it would be great in certain organizations and

I would just do the, the most highest impact thing, get the results, and then

I would put my feet up and then I'd come back and it like, it'd be great.

But in, in reality, it feels like, um, a little bit of a, a trick

No, it is.

It is.

So our, in the US the people who work for my company have it because

that parent company has it there.

In the UK we don't, but we honestly get more time off.

I mean, I went from three weeks off and that was after working somewhere

for six years, I got 15 days off.

And then I moved here and it was 25 and then now it's 30.

Right.

And so over there, so there are a couple things, and I have friends who also

have the unlimited leave and there's really, yeah, you, there's this idea

that you can, but then should you take the days off and then you don't wanna

take too many off and then really they can't take like a month off.

It's like really two weeks like most.

And what I, which honestly makes sense, like at some point, like taking a

month at a time off is really tough on a business or for a business.

But yeah, I think people don't, yeah, they don't feel like they can

actually take unlimited time off.

I mean, the nice thing is if you have a doctor's appointment and take

a half day instead of pressuring yourself to like go to the doctor

appointment, come back, work.

Make up the time, that kind of thing's.

Good.

But yeah, I think a lot of times they found out and there's research online.

I remember reading something about it that people who have unlimited PTO

take less time off than people who don't because they're not gonna also,

ah, this is the other thing, you know, when you leave it, I'm all, yeah, dude,

your brother would like this 'cause of how he must have left his job.

He sounds like me.

But basically also like when you leave a job, you get paid out your PTO, right?

Like if you have two weeks left or three weeks left.

When you have unlimited PTO, you get paid out nothing.

So now the company's no longer carrying a balance on you.

That's the, that's the one that was, I remember hearing going, oh, that's

like, you know, because that's kind of a nice boost sometimes especially if

you didn't mean to leave your job maybe.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And especially if, you know, um, you are only getting 15 days

and you're getting job to job to job, like, that's, that's crazy.

Have,

Yeah.

have you noticed a difference in sort of having lived in both places?

Do you think that that has an effect?

We're talking 10 days a year here, but I think on, on, on average, right.

But do you think that that has a effect on people's health, like the way that they

show up their overall, like stress level or do you think people have adapted to

it and actually the 15 days is, is fine and you know, we need to work harder?

Like where, where do you sort of sit having seen both sides?

Well, I think that, no, because I think in what happens in the

US too is this idea of sick time.

I've never had a job that had sick time, so that 15 days

also counted for being ill.

And so you would work when you were ill.

It didn't matter.

And then over here, a lot of times you do get some kind of thing for sick.

I mean, not in, I, I don't think in wage jobs where you're working per hour.

I mean, I think that's still rough everywhere, but I think

in, you know, salary jobs.

But I think no, it made a big difference because it was the difference between

going on an actual vacation and just using all the time to travel back home

to see my family, for example, or, you know, yeah, take a few more long weekends.

It's, it's a big difference.

Or, you know, the pressure to use all the time off during the holidays,

like, um, the festive season as they call it over here, right?

Like, if you only have 15 days, then you, and maybe your part, like my

case, not a partner, but whatever, my family, they have these days

off and you have to take those days off now you have no more time left.

And so I think, yeah, it's a big difference in giving

people a little more time off.

And I, I think then they can feel more like that they can live and not just

work and then get resentful about it.

But it is an interesting, um, there's, it was definitely culturally different

and I mean, when I moved over, it was right, I moved into my flat the next day.

It was the lockdown, so it was a lot different.

But, and I didn't really need to use time off.

I mean, I was like, gonna do just like sit, oh, I'll sit in my flat

with nothing to do versus something.

But, um, but yeah, like it's made a big difference since, since then.

For sure.

It's, it's, it's way different.

And if you look at those four pillars, like I would argue that someone who's

sort of limited to that degree, their, their baseline level of happiness is just

limited in a way because they are, their time for such a disgusting proportion of

the year is just dictated to them, right?

Are they, and often it's time and location.

And then that stops them from being able to pour into health and

relationships, for example, which then just makes the problem even worse.

Yeah, for sure.

And I think then, and then if they don't have a way or an understanding of how to

balance it or even a way of understanding that this isn't good for them, it, it

gets, you know, worse, and I think that's where you do see a lot of burnout and

people not being happy and, and health problems and things like that, right?

It's just the constant stress.

Yeah, and, and people don't necessarily.

When they don't, aren't self-aware and there's no reflection practice,

what we see is that people understand that there's something not right.

There's this ambient feeling of things not being in the

right place and feeling stuck.

Feeling stuck in a pattern, but they don't actually either 'cause they're

not reflecting or because they don't have the support and someone

who's got a fresh perspective to say, hey, it's actually this really

obvious thing that you're neglecting.

So there's none of that.

So then they're stuck in a position where they want better, but they

dunno how to get it, or they don't know what it is that's blocking them

from where they want to go to because actually knowing the thing and knowing

the blocker, that's half the battle.

And, and almost the, the hardest part and actually removing it.

Is is quite often sometimes just made up of really small little decisions

that are quite, quite simple in practice, and then all of a sudden

you're in a much better place.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's just, it's just that ability, right, to zoom out and get

that 10,000 foot view when you're, all you can see is weeds 'cause

you've just gotta be in a grind.

So, which journaling can help with, I think, you know for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And, and going back to what you were saying earlier about the, um, the

specific, like, and that's why being really specific with these prompts

can be helpful because you gave the example of like, tell a joke.

It's like, yeah, tell a joke and then I dunno, I'm lost.

And then tell a knock-knock joke.

Oh right.

I've got, I've got three here.

Here you go.

They're all bad.

Um, but the, the specific prompt actually brings so much more out of you than

just sort of vague thoughts like, oh, try and do my thinking in the shower.

'cause it's the only time I'm not on my phone and it's just all very vague.

Nothing's written down.

You feel cleaner, but how much has actually changed?

Yeah.

And now your journal's wet.

Yeah.

Like don't try to write when you're in the shower please.

Well, Freddie, I mean, it's been great to just chat through all this with you

and, given me a lot to think about and I hope people listening a lot to think

about or, you know, even the thought that maybe they want to, they want to, you

know, join you on the Evolve Jounrey.

But, do you have any advice or mantra that you, you use that either you have

always used or that you've got out of, of doing the work you're doing now

that you'd like to share with people?

Yeah, I think it's a, it's a simple one and it is, reflection

plus action equals progress.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Nice.

I like that.

So I think what we'll do next is, um, very predictably get into the fun five.

So it's five questions I ask every guest that I personally think are fun.

And sometimes they do.

So we'll see how it goes for you.

The first one is just what is the oldest T-shirt you have and still wear?

Uh, it's a t-shirt that's about 11 years old and it says, "don't be a prick" on it.

And there's a silhouette of a cactus and it's got a massive hole there.

It's completely falling apart.

There's probably been ironic moments along the way where I've worn it

and been a prick, so there you go.

Nice.

Well, you couldn't always see the writing on it when you were, when you were wearing

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

That was, oh, that was me.

Good reminder.

Um, all right, so if every day was really like Groundhog's Day, like it seemed

like, um, well it can seem like that for people now too, but it seemed like

when I wrote this question in 2020, um, what song would you set your alarm clock

to play every morning to wake you up?

Uh, good question.

I will go for Nelly Furtado, "i'm Like a Bird".

Oh, that's

sweet.

I didn't, I almost, well, I, I didn't expect that.

All right.

So is

I, I was, I was flip flopping in my mind because that was

like a fun, happy version.

And then the other one, which would be like, let's set

ourselves up for a crazy day.

Every day would be like, uh, have you ever heard of the guy Jocko Willnk?

Um, he's like a ex-military guy.

He's got this album of, it's just him talking on Spotify.

It's this album, it's called "Psychological Warfare", I think.

And it will start and he'll be like.

That thing that your head is on is a pillow and it's suffocating your dreams.

Get up.

Um, so you could go happy, nearly like a bird or you could go like,

woo a bit of a, a bit of a spicy one.

Oh my gosh.

All right.

So yeah, I can see why you ended up with, I'm Like a Bird

if it was gonna be the same every day.

Um, all right.

So coffee or tea or neither?

Coffee.

I'm, I'm big on the, the mushroom coffee at the moment.

Um, yeah, I would, what I've been drinking during this has been Space Goods.

I'd really recommend it.

It's tasty.

okay.

Cool.

I just got that, um, the Lion's Mane

powder for my coffee and I really feel like it actually.

It is helpful, so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's so many good ones out there.

Um, the main thing is like, you want the, uh, I think it's like

the fruit and body of the mushroom.

Because some of them are just sort of like cheap stalk, like it, it's lion's

mane, but there's nothing actually good in there that will, will have the effect.

So, yeah.

I, I love it though.

I can, I can notice a real difference when I'm drinking it and I don't have

like, the, I'm very sensitive to the, to the caffeine, so I'd have like a horrible

crash and get all like anxious afterwards.

But just the, the lion's mane coffees, yeah, it's great.

Oh, awesome.

Okay, cool.

Good shout.

And okay, Can you think of like something that just makes you laugh so hard?

Do you cry or just something that cracks you up when you think of it?

A recent one in that comes to mind probably 'cause I'm in my parents'

house, was we all found out that.

When there's like a storm and it's like really raining outside that

my dad goes out and checks the, the gutters and the, the drains because

we had, we had a flood once he does this butt naked in the middle of the

Oh,

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, wow.

So imagine like a, like a British version of like Peter Griffin

yeah.

Oh no, you're dad.

out there in like a, in a deep squat trying to get leaves out of a drain.

So that, that makes me chuckle every time

Did you find

wanna get his clo,

Yeah.

he didn't wanna get his clothes wet, you know?

Sleep naked.

So why, why put clothes on?

how did you find this out?

Did you see this or you just heard about it?

Yeah, luckily I didn't see it

Good, man.

else.

That would be a, uh, yeah, something ingrained in my mind and, and not

necessarily something that I want, um,

yeah.

you'd have to lend them, lend them your shirt, but, um, wow.

Okay, cool.

And, um,

that's crazy.

Um, all right.

Who inspires you right now?

Um, good question.

I would say, uh, Pierce Brown.

I'm reading a lot of his books at the moment.

He's got a series called Red Rising.

I'd recommend that for people.

That's my like way of switching off when I can't work anymore, um, and just like

transport myself into another planet.

It's fiction.

yeah.

Yeah.

Cool.

Nice.

Yeah.

'cause I saw you guys have a book list and you've read a lot of some

books that overlap with what I've read or what I have on my shelf

that didn't read but have there.

But yeah, that's cool.

So good, so fiction and have fiction out there.

That's awesome.

All right, well, um, the last question I have for you, Freddie, is just like, how

do you want people to find you guys and.

And, um, where do you want them to look you up?

And if they do wanna check out a journal, where should they go?

Yeah, head over to our website.

Um, or you can find us on, on Instagram.

We, we read all of the, the emails that come in, all of the dms they

go directly to, to me and Sam.

So, um, Instagram we're evolve journey (@evolvejourney).

And the website is just evolve journey dot co dot uk (evolvejourney.co.uk).

We're, um, we're live in America as well.

We ship direct from there.

And then same, same in the UK.

So yeah, get, get, get in touch.

We're always happy to, to help.

You don't even need to buy a journal if you wanna just chat about things.

If you're unsure about anything, we're always, always happy to help.

Awesome.

That's great.

Well, thanks so much for doing the More Than Work and for getting in touch.

It was really, it was really great to meet you and chat with you, Freddie.

Pleasure.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for listening.

You can learn more about the guest and what was talked about in the

show notes.

Joe Maffia created the music

you're listening to.

You can find him on Spotify at Joe

M-A-F-F-I-A.

Rob Metke does all the design

for which I'm so grateful.

You can find him online by searching Rob, M-E-T-K-E.

Please leave a review if you like the show and get in touch if you

have feedback or guest ideas.

The pod is on all the social channels at

at More Than Work Pod (@MoreThanWorkPod or at Rabiah comedy (@RabiahComedy)

on TikTok.

While being kind to others, don't forget to be kind to yourself.