Episode Summary: Tune in with hosts Leekei, Jenn, and Kristina as they discuss the game-changing potential of celebrities championing climate action. 

Valérie Masson-Delmotte, a renowned French climate scientist and IPCC report author, proposes that soccer star Kylian Mbappé could be an ideal spokesperson for climate causes. 

The episode also examines various celebrities who have engaged in social causes, the mixed reactions they receive, and how some of these efforts risk being labeled as greenwashing due to misunderstandings or lack of knowledge

For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac, visit thecarbonalmanac.org

Want to join in the conversation?

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.

Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!

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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Leekei Tang and Jenn Swanson.

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and podcaster from Paris, France. 

From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer and community Connector, helping people help themselves. 

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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.

Hi, I'm Christina.

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I'm from Prague.

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Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Canada.

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Hi, I'm Oladunji, and I'm from Nigeria.

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Hello, I'm Liki, and I live in Paris.

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Hi, I'm Brian, and I'm from New York.

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Welcome to Carbon Sessions, a podcast with

Carbon Conversations for every day, with

8

everyone, from everywhere in the world.

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In our conversations, we share ideas.

10

Perspectives, questions, and things we

can actually do to make a difference.

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So don't be shy and join our Carbon

Sessions because it's not too late.

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Hi, this is Christina.

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Hi, this is Jen.

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Hi, and I'm Liki.

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How are you today?

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Great.

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Great.

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Yes.

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. . When I was researching for this

conversation, , it reminded me of

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something that I've read last year.

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And, um, this is, um, a French

climate scientist, which is also

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an co-author of the IPCC report.

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, her name is Vale Masson Delma, and

she said something very interesting.

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She said that Ian and

Bape would make an accent.

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ambassador , for climate change.

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I don't know if you know

who Kylian Mbappe is.

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He's one of the most talented and

one of the most admired soccer

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player in France these days.

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And his words are like,

wow, he's worth it.

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Everybody listens to him.

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He's very, very talented.

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He also have a , big following.

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Like, for example, I just give you a, um,

an illustration of that is that, , last

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weekend there was, um, MMA fight And he

attended this fight and actually the

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fighters that he was swallowing the French

fighter who was swallowing won, but the

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press is talking a lot about the fighter

that won, but as well a lot about Killian

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Mbappé because he attending this fight.

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So just to give you an idea of , his

aura and his, um, power , in the media.

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And so Valerie Masson Delmotte said

that, yeah, he would make an excellent

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ambassador for climate change.

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And then I thought, wow, that's a

brilliant idea because, , If you're a

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celebrity, and I'm not talking about,

uh, I'm not necessarily talking about

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climate influencers, but I'm talking

about a celebrity who has a big following,

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whose words count in the public sphere.

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What if, if a celebrity decides to say,

okay, I'm going to talk about climate

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change and really make it a thing.

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And, um, and I'm going to use my

power to change the conversation

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and also to trigger change of.

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habits , in the people that follow me.

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Wouldn't be great and actually when

we come to think of it we have on

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this podcast We have a couple of

people who are already doing it.

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I'm thinking of

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Our friend Hank Rogers who's now

working very very hard To create

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good and change the conversation and

change trajectory of climate change.

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Um, I'm also thinking of another guest

that we had, which is an elite runner.

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You didn't attend this conversation,

but she is a British elite

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runner living in the States.

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And, uh, she has published a book, , and,

uh, when we ask her, why do you , decide

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to, you know, , to tackle this issue

because you were doing great as a runner.

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And she said, I think that I can

use my platform, my following to.

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Talk about this very important issue.

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And so, yeah, so I, I don't know.

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I just want to have your full on

that topic and well, we wouldn't

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be here without Seth Godin.

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Oh, yes, who invented this, you

know, gathered us all together

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and he wouldn't like that.

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I say he invented this.

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Um, but he encouraged this to be born

and And so he's a perfect example

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of someone who had massive influence

and following in his own circles.

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He's not, you know, uh, famous like some

celebrities might be, but in his circles

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and online, he certainly is adored

and followed by literally thousands.

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Millions probably.

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And, um, and look what

happened because of that idea.

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So I think it's a really valid point.

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And we've had a lot of celebrities

in the past that have done

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things, social justice things.

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You know, you think of, um, uh, Jane

Fonda, her whole life, you know, doing

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Doing things in marches and protests and

that you think of Bono and his social

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enterprise, especially the restaurant that

is run by people who have, um, been in

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jail, I think, um, like there are, there

are celebrities who have done really,

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really important things with their.

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With their celebrity.

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And, uh, so climate, yeah,

climate is a good one.

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Yeah, because especially soccer

players, are they, they have big

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salaries, but they also have a good

contract to endorse some brands.

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What if, you know, they could endorse

this clothes instead of endorsing a brand

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and those clothes, wouldn't it be great?

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Yeah.

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And also I found, uh, the sustainability.

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com Coldplay.

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I mean, sustainability Coldplay.

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com.

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So he has all set up how to create

concerts that are sustainable,

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are better for our planet.

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So it's, uh, I guess internally

they, there are some suggestions

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and, and ways people starting to

talk about how to change things.

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Talking about how to change

things, but also doing it.

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I think that Coldplay, when you go

on the website, on the tour website,

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there's a lot of, um, um, explanations.

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About how they're doing things

differently, and you shared a

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link with us, and I'm just going

to have a look at it again.

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So they, they have, um, they

have like a disclosure of the

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sustainability principles.

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Yeah, and also, I guess,

but there are two ways.

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One is to change the behaviors, their

own behaviors, and the way they, uh, Uh,

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organize and, uh, prepare their concerts.

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But I think what you said about the soccer

player, uh, that it's also important

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they talk about it to their fans, not

only internally, but also externally.

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So, yeah, we have a, um, Canadian

singer named Jan Arden, um, who's, um,

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you know, had, had a long career and

she is currently actually, in fact,

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tomorrow, the day after we record this,

she has mobilized her fan base to, uh,

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stand against the export of horses.

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Uh, out of the country for meat.

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Um, there's a whole bunch of

horses get sent from Canada across

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the world to be used as meat.

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And, uh, and she's so passionate

about this and her fan base.

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is rallying with her and she's got

merchandise and she's got petitions going

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and, you know, she's got big influence.

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Um, and so I think celebrities using

their influence for something they're

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passionate about to change in the

world is, is a really good way to go.

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But at the same time, I think it's.

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It's um, it's difficult for celebrities

to totally change things because if we go

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back to the Coldplay case, there actually

have been some very harsh articles.

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, I'm going to share this with you,

but there's, um, there's an article,

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um, in the Guardian and the British

newspaper that says , that because

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uh, they have a deal with an oil

company, um, they label Coldplay as,

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um, as useful idiots for greenwashing.

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Because , this oil

company is using palm oil.

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And I don't know if you

remember the conversation that

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we had with another guest.

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Well, it's not to have lots

of conversation, I guess,

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but, um, who explains that?

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Yeah.

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Well, cause palm oil is less.

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I don't know if it's a word for that,

less bad than, like, um, than, um,

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than fossil fuel oil, but at the

same time you have to think of the

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whole thing and, the big picture.

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The question also, , if we use palm

oil, what's the fertilizer that has been

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used , because probably the fertilizer

that's been used , to plant those

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palm oil or, , to plant these palm

trees are probably not , from natural

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sources, but probably from fossil fuels.

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And so.

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The point is of this article is say,

okay, you cannot just go easy and say,

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okay, I'm doing this because I'm have

this partnership with this company.

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And, uh, because they're using palm

oil, therefore this is sustainable.

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And so this is why this, this

article label cold place as useful.

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It is for brainwashing.

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So it's difficult.

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I think it is because no matter what

you do it, there's going to be some.

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Um, area of that someone will criticize,

you know, like, I mean, if they want to

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go play a concert, they have to get on a

plane or bring multiple semi trailers full

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of their set to whatever arena they're

going to like that, you know, to get

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the message out to the people, they're

still going to have to be doing things

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that are damaging to the environment.

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And so I think it doesn't, it

doesn't matter what they do.

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There's going to be some.

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Alternate voice, right?

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I think that sometimes,

there's greenwashing just for

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the pure act of greenwashing.

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But I think sometimes they're

also greenwashing because, because

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there's a lack of understanding.

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This happens all the time.

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It just came across a company that sells

diamond and, , because, you know, diamond

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it's, um, it's comes from extraction.

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And so , they're selling this zero

carbon, diamond fine, great.

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But at the same time, there's

a certificate based on NFT.

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I was like, oh my god.

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NFT, yeah, well, there's nothing physical,

but to make it run, um, to make the NFT

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run, it requires a lot of electricity.

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So how can you say that this diamond

is on one hand, Carbon neutral.

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And on the other hand, , you

can deliver an NFT certificate.

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This is, and I think it's, it's, you know

it's a, it's, um, it's greenwashing by

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misunderstanding or by lack of knowledge,

you know, they put items in green bottles

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and say, you know, Enter clean energy

clean or something, you know, whatever

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they'll put some name that sounds amazing

And then you actually read the ingredients

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and think hmm First of all, it's in a

plastic bottle second of all Where did

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it come from third of all what is in it?

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Yeah, yeah, it's complicated.

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This is really complicated and maybe

Just focusing for people who have the

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voice, they can spread the message.

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Uh, also just at least focus

on sharing some information.

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, and also what they are, they stand

for because people look at them

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and they want to be like them, so.

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And I think nobody's perfect and

nobody's going to get it 100 percent

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right, and we're not, we're not

suggesting that any of us do it right.

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Yeah, we're not, we're not environmental

police or something, or climate police.

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So, so, but, but I think the point of,

you know, somebody who has incredible

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influence, like we mentioned when we

were planning this, um, like Taylor

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Swift, who, you know, she puts out,

um, One little message and everybody

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instantly does what she puts out, right?

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Because she's got such influence.

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Um, you know, she, she could

make a huge amount of difference.

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Yeah, well, but at the same time there

would be people that say, Yeah, well,

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but she's a hypocrite because at the same

time she's doing this and this and this.

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So that's really difficult.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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But I mean, if, if she was mobilizing

millions of people to take some kind

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of action, like go out when you go to

a walk on a walk and pick up garbage,

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like it doesn't matter what it is.

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She, she has the potential to make

a huge difference in some aspect of

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helping the climate, even if it's.

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It's not perfect because to maintain her

company and all the hundreds of people

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she employs and all the stuff, her, her

whole organization, yeah, she needs to

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get on planes and she needs to have like

multiple tractor trailers full of stuff

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to drag her fancy stages everywhere.

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I've been to one of our concerts

and they're quite a spectacle.

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But she has the potential.

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to, to do some, something.

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Yeah, I think she already used that during

the voting, , to bring people to vote.

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So, maybe she can do the

same thing for climate.

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So, I think, something we could do also,

I mean, we, like, people in general,

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we could be just a little bit gentler.

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Because it's, it's very

important to acknowledge that we

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cannot be 100 percent perfect.

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And, um, so, a little bit

gentler and, um, tolerant.

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With people like, um, celebrities,

, and also acknowledge that they

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have constraints, as you said, they

have a company to run and, uh, in

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order to perform and in order to

deliver this level of, um, Of shows

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and you said that you went to one

of the show and it's fantastic.

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She has to do something.

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So, yeah, just acknowledge that

Peek A Boo cannot be perfect.

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And, um, I'm trying to,

to not finger point.

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That's, that's hard because it's so easy,

but I try very hard not to finger point.

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No, but it also, it also is a good

point that when somebody has that much

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influence and that much of a platform,

um, is it self serving or are they doing

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something for others and for the world?

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And I think that there are a lot

of celebrities that are doing

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things for people and helping.

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Um, you know, I'm thinking of the

number of hockey players that, um,

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just in our local area that support,

um, I think it's called Canuck Place.

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And it's, the Canucks are, It's an

unfortunate hockey team at the moment,

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but they're not doing very well right now.

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Um, but there's a place called Canuck

Place and, um, it's a place that,

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um, there's two places and I can't

remember which is which, but one of

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them is where families can stay when

they have to come to the cancer, uh,

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the children's hospital, um, where,

because the families want to be nearby.

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Uh, if they've come from miles and miles

and miles away to be with their children

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and it's a place that they can stay.

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, while their Children are hospitalized,

, so there's, there's lots of people doing

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a lot of good things with their celebrity

and with the money that they're making.

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And sometimes we never hear, but

it's the ones that have such a big

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platform that it would be nice if they.

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We're able to do more of that and jump

a little bit onto the climate bandwagon.

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Yeah.

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And the money doesn't have

to be involved in that.

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They can just speak, , about it and

have some information and suggestions.

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But, so, but I think that because, um,

the climate and environmental question

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is so complex, that's, We and again

we as in like, you know, I'm not I'm

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not saying anybody in particular but

we expect people to be all in and And

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it's very difficult when you know, the

example that you just shared Jen about

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this hockey player in this house for

children, for the family of the children.

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It's one simple action.

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, and there's no particular like,

um, links with other areas,

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you know, you can do that.

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And then your fans will not, you

know, , call you out greenwashing.

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Whereas if celebrities like,

like, She does one thing.

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It's very easy to say, Oh,

well, she's greenwashing.

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Yeah.

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Well,

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Leonardo DiCaprio, right,

is quite a climate activist.

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, um, I was going to say that he's

now a king, the king of England.

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Um, you know, uh, people

like, um, Greta Thunberg.

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Well, again, the king of England,

he's an environmentalist and,

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um, and climate activist.

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He recently visited France.

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And he took his private jet,

and he got criticized for that.

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Well, I know it's so it's, it's a

tight, it's a tight spot to be in.

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I think in that way, because you're going

to get criticized no matter what you

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do, but at least you're doing something.

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You know, not that I'm the biggest

fan, but just, just, you know, like,

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I, I appreciate that there are people

who have such, um, such influence

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and such ability to, to speak.

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To the world who are actually doing it,

you know, Meryl Streep is, is another one.

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Um, Prince Harry has been doing stuff.

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Um, Mark Ruffalo, like there's a lot of

names of people who we know we've seen

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them and they're doing, um, they're doing

what they can in the way that they can.

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Maybe they can do more, but

I mean, we're not done, so.

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That's why I think we should be more

gentle and be more tolerant of people

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that are doing, and appreciative, I think,

of the people that are doing things.

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And it would be wonderful if on the

news they would have a segment about

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all these wonderful things famous

people are doing for climate or

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other people or other places, water.

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Thank you.

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Yeah, to let people know, they

just know their fame and, and,

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uh, their movies and concerts.

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But I think most people don't

know what they're really doing

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in the, on their off time.

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Well, probably you also, it's

also, it's also a little bit

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of a delicate dance, right?

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Because you don't want to be,

Ooh, look at what I'm doing,

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right?

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I mean.

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Maybe some of them are doing

it quietly because they're

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really passionate about it.

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Um, and maybe some of them are

doing it more publicly to try and

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get other people involved because

they're also passionate about it.

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I don't know.

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It's, I'm not a celebrity.

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So I don't know.

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But, but I do admire people

that at least put in the effort.

302

The real effort, not

the greenwashing effort.

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Okay.

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Not pretend.

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Because, we are appreciative and,

um, maybe, you know, one of the

306

celebrities, one of your favorite

celebrities is listening to this podcast.

307

And so if they're listening, what's

the message that you have for them

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and what do you want them to do?

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Like, you know, think of a celebrity.

310

I've been thinking about

it since this morning.

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I haven't found it, but I'll, so you

go first and then I'll keep thinking.

312

What would you say, Christina?

313

What would you tell them?

314

Uh, I think I would tell them to,

uh, start creating something they're

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passionate about and they have skills

in, uh, like a documentary or a song

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or a music that is, uh, that has

very specific direction towards,

317

uh, climate change and information.

318

That's what I would say.

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Do you have a name in particular?

320

Do you think of someone in particular?

321

Um, I think, no, I cannot, I I

cannot think of anybody to tell

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them, but whoever listens, anybody.

323

So if you're a celebrity out there

and listening to this podcast,

324

yeah, please enjoy and create a

new song and new documentary or a

325

little new game, whatever it is.

326

Uh, with the theme to inform

and talk about climate change.

327

Mm hmm.

328

Yeah.

329

And I would, I would think that

would be, um, a great place to start.

330

And also if there are people that,

you know, follow you and admire you

331

and do whatever you invite them to

do, then you've got huge influence to

332

be able to invite people to take some

kind of action in their own context.

333

Right.

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Um, invite people to do like

regular people like us to just do

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something that makes a difference.

336

And, uh, uh, I think, I think

there's the ability to mobilize

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a large number of people.

338

If, um, if you explain why you love

it, what you're passionate about

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and make it fun, you know, use

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I saw a new hashtag today.

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Oh, great outfit of the day.

342

O O T D or something, old outfit, O O O

T D and I hadn't seen it before and it

343

was an online influencer who went to her

closet, found something, put it together

344

in a new way and labeled it old outfit of

the day and I thought, that is brilliant.

345

So, so have some fun with it too.

346

Okay Leaky, our turn.

347

I'm thinking of the Obamas,

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the Obamas, because, um, I just came

across, uh, um, a video on Instagram,

349

a story on Instagram of Michelle Obama,

um, interviewed by, what's her name?

350

Um, Drew Barrymore.

351

Drew Barrymore has a, has a talk show now.

352

And so she was interviewed by Drew

Barrymore and she was talking about.

353

being grateful and, and, um,

acknowledging enoughness.

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Because , we have been told that we

could be happy by hoarding things,

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by getting things we don't have.

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And we don't necessarily want.

357

And I think that this talk from, from

Michelle Obama was very interesting

358

because she was I can't even remember

the example, but she was saying that

359

she was taught by her father since

she was a child that, you know, Oh,

360

if you eat a pizza, be grateful.

361

You know, this is enough.

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Don't want something

that you don't have now.

363

And I think this is the, model that

a lot of, um, celebrities should.

364

share, like this is a

great message, but okay.

365

I understand that it's very difficult

because, um, it's very difficult to, to,

366

share this kind of message because no

brands will sponsor you for saying that.

367

Yeah.

368

But who knows?

369

Well, that's . Yeah, it's the whole

thing of abundance versus lack, right?

370

We, we always look at what we lack.

371

And I've been thinking about this

because, you know, I'm, I'm preparing

372

for a Thanksgiving message, Canadian

Thanksgiving this Sunday, and I'm

373

preparing for my message on abundance

and lack and gratitude, and talking

374

about how When we practice gratitude,

our brain, our neural pathways rewire

375

and look at what we already have and

what's going well rather than what we

376

don't have and what isn't going well.

377

And, and we often operate on a, uh,

you know, on a, on that system of lack.

378

Well, if I only had X, then I

would be happier if I only had

379

that, or if I only had that item.

380

Right.

381

And it's a trained thing.

382

And if we can untrain ourselves by,

by practicing, being grateful for what

383

we do have in this beautiful world

that we live on this planet that we

384

live on, um, then maybe we would feel

happier and look after it better.

385

This is the message , I would share

to Michelle Obama, if she's listening

386

to a podcast, uh, that, you know,

do more of this, but at the same

387

time acknowledge that sometimes

you don't do things perfectly.

388

And this is a very powerful message

saying that I'm trying to do this.

389

It's not perfect, but it's a first step.

390

You could do this as well.

391

You know, it being more tolerant

with ourself, with our action,

392

with our Start doing things and

even if it's imperfect, do it.

393

Yeah.

394

Wasn't it, uh, Mother Teresa who said

you don't have to do great acts, you just

395

need to do small acts with great love?

396

Oh.

397

I don't know if it's her, but she

could have said something like this.

398

Wonderful.

399

you.

400

Bye.

401

Let's hope the celebrities are listening.

402

Oh, they are.

403

I'm sure.

404

And they can leave a message, you know.

405

Yeah.

406

They can leave a voice message.

407

If, if any of them are listening,

leave us a message and we'll have you

408

on.

409

Okay.

410

Bye.

411

Okay.

412

Bye.

413

Bye.

414

You've been listening to Carbon

Sessions, a podcast with carbon

415

conversations for every day with

everyone from everywhere in the world.

416

We'd love you to join the Carbon

Sessions so you too can share your

417

perspectives from wherever you are.

418

This is a great way for our community

to learn from your ideas and

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experiences, connect, and take action.

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If you want to add your voice to the

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This podcast is also part of

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For more information, to sign up for

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and to order your copy of the Carbon

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Be sure to subscribe and join

us here again, as together

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we can change the world.