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Last Updated: September 2, 2024

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163: "You're probably in the best place of your life once you find out that people will pay you for something you enjoy doing." Scaling Jacob Mousseau's hobby into a business

Have you ever thought about scaling a long-time hobby into a full-time business? Founder and CEO of Wounded Woodworkers Jacob Mousseau definitely has.

Jen Amos listens to Jacob Mousseau share his journey of starting a woodworking hobby club 8 years ago after leaving the military earlier than expected. He found woodworking to be therapeutic for himself and other veterans. However, the club had to stop meeting in person when safety and liability concerns arose. This prompted Jacob to shift his focus to creating personalized gifts with laser engraving.

After graduating from The Rosie Network's 2023 Service2CEO program, he started to consider how growing his hobby into a business can increase his impact and donations to nonprofits supporting veterans. At the same time, he finds himself at a crossroads as he works a full-time job and values prioritizing his family responsibilities. Listen in while Jacob shares his hopes to generate enough revenue to hire help and continue donating to nonprofits while sustaining a work-life balance.

This episode is also available on YouTube: https://youtu.be/wS31iTqVTK0

Connect with Jacob Mousseau and Wounded Woodworkers

• Email: wounded.woodworkers@gmail.com
• Website: https://woundedwoodworkers.org
• https://www.linkedin.com/company/woundedwoodworkers
• https://www.facebook.com/wounded.woodworkers
• https://www.youtube.com/@woundedwoodworkers
• https://www.instagram.com/wounded_woodworkers/

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Jen Amos 0:01

All right, and today I have with me Jacob Musso. Jacob. Welcome to holding down the fort by us bet wealth and the Rosen network. Season Seven.

Unknown Speaker 0:12

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, Jan.

Jen Amos 0:14

Yeah, I thought I would have a start off with a warm up an icebreaker question. So I have a deck of cards here. And I'm just gonna go through it and you just tell me when to stop and I'm gonna pull out a question for you. Just to warm us

Speaker 1 0:25

out series. Okay. Oh, no.

Jen Amos 0:29

Okay, here it is. Okay, are you D? Would you consider yourself? It's a very funny, fun question. Do you consider yourself a hopeless romantic? Yes or no? And whatever it is? Explain.

Speaker 1 0:45

Yeah, I think I'll go with yes on this. And it's just funny story, right. So my now brother in law used to be my brother in arms. We served together downrange, I was living with him when we got back because didn't want to live in the barracks. And his wife, sister came to spend the summer with us. And it took them to set us up together. And now Now we're married. So now we're brother in law brother in arms, but like, Oh, I really, I definitely really wasn't that like, go out after you know, folks. So like, it was it was nice having that help?

Jen Amos 1:18

You know, I think, like, I've definitely dabbled in, like online dating in the past, but like, my husband was introduced to me through a mutual friend. And I just, I just wouldn't have it any I mean, I'm grateful that that's how it ended up. And, you know, in your situation, you're like, Yeah, I wouldn't be the one going in the bars or going out and like, you know, so it's just great to know that it was it was an introduction through, you know, a mutual friend. And, and now you guys are more than just brother in arms, but your brother in law's and that's amazing. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Yeah, well, thank you for entertaining that, and congratulations in finding your person. I feel like once we find I mean, you know, I understand that divorce is very real. But I feel like for the most part, when you find your person that's like, okay, great. I can check that off my list and live my life. And, and I know for you, we talked about this prior to this call that you're a family, man. And so, you know, I think that a lot of what we'll talk about today is doing what you do, like so that you can spend time with your family. And so, you know, I'm sure your wife is very lucky to have you and know that family is an incredibly important to you. Absolutely, yes. Yeah. Well, you know, I let me see here. Wait, let me give me one second here. Okay, cool. Cool. So let me just jump back in. Sorry, this is me like looking at my notes right now. Alright, so So Jacob, your story is that you are I guess what we would consider like a like a professional hobbyist. Yeah. Yeah, you've been doing like woodworking for the last eight years and it's it's only now that you've decided to you know, take your your hobby to the next level but but let's let's backtrack a little bit and talk about eight years ago when you when you started in woodworking and and I know that it wasn't just out of the blue like I think your family has a history of of woodworking Is that correct?

Speaker 1 3:11

Yes. Yep, that's correct. Yeah.

Jen Amos 3:14

So tell us about tell us about that time early on. When when you decided to start, you know, start wounded. What do I sorry, wounded wounds. Wow, tongue twister heart. Okay, so tell. So go. Let's go back to that time when you started wounded

Speaker 1 3:30

Jen Amos 4:50

Yeah, no, I think that's, that's really amazing and and I definitely don't want to gloss over your set your abrupt transition to some Belly in life. So can you tell us a little bit about that sounds like that's that wasn't something you were planning for?

Speaker 1 5:05

Jen Amos 6:17

Oh, my goodness. Yeah, I'm here thinking like, okay, cool. I got like, you know, pull a cash, like, I'm gonna be fine for a while. This is okay. But like, I can't even believe like, wow, I mean, I'm sure there's a whole conversation for another time. But to know that you have to pay it back. Wow. Just wow.

Unknown Speaker 6:33

Yeah, it was a huge surprise.

Jen Amos 6:37

Yeah. So it's been, it's been almost a decade now. You know, since your sudden transition. What what comes to mind for you, when you look back at that time? Is that still like a sore spot for you? Or maybe like a, like a blessing in disguise? Like, how do you see that time now?

Speaker 1 6:54

Yeah, very, very much a blessing. You know, I mean, I love the military had every intention of making a career retiring. You know, it just didn't work out. And honestly, it was really good. Just because, you know, I didn't have to PCs didn't have to deploy again, to work the whole time. You know, I really got to have that time to grow my relationship with my wife, and, and, you know, become a civilian Learn, learn all the like, things not to do the hard way. And, yeah, that's actually helped me to like, where I am career wise. So I mean, incredible transition for that. I mean, it was definitely absolute blessing, because who knows where the military would have took me?

Jen Amos 7:44

Yeah, yeah, that's, I'm really happy to hear that. Because often, when I hear stories of that sudden transition, it could still be I mean, yes, it's, it's, I'm really glad it's a blessing in disguise. And I know, for some people, it's still a bit of a sore spot, you know, it's still like, hey, like, I wasn't planning on getting out early. Like, it's just, it's just awful how they just let go of me like that, you know, but I'm just really happy to hear that, you know, things turned out for the better for you. And obviously, we wouldn't have wounded woodworkers hadn't, you know, that that had happened. And so you so, you know, post military, you have this time, and, you know, this additional income that, you know, later we find out you have to pay back for but at the time, you had this money and you decided to, you know, start your club, and tell us a little bit about that, that experience of like, you know, being with other veterans and, and being able to do this work together. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 8:40

And I will tell you like, just to go back real quick. Yes, the transition was a blessing. But it was by far the hardest year of my life, trying to figure it figure that out. So yeah, that's kind of got me to where I am now led to like the group, but to answer that, that question, you know, it, it was awesome. So I really didn't think it was gonna be the way it was. I just thought we'd be hanging out building furniture, selling it and making money. And I really didn't think much of it until a couple of craft shows. But yeah, in doing this, I realized that, you know, in a way, it was therapeutic, just in nature of the actual woodworking and doing it, you know, you may make a mistake, you can easily sand it off and, you know, start over. But there's a lot of peer support that was involved. You know, I'm, I'm sitting here with a couple other vets sometimes it was just one on one. And, you know, you get to dig a little bit deeper into other people's lives and see what they're going through. And, you know, explain to them they know that they're not alone. You know, I've got similar feelings. So like, hey, you know, I've been there and that's not something that I can talk to my wife about, just because she wasn't super familiar with the military when we got together. or, and so it's much easier to speak with other warriors and people that can relate to what you've gone what you've gone through. And it's, it was really nice.

Yeah, yeah. And I imagine that it was therapeutic in a sense where you're not just like sitting around in a circle and talking about everything that you all experienced in the military, it was like you were you were keeping your hands busy and helping each other out and, and making your woodworking process even better and your product better. And I think it sounds like maybe from that, like, people felt more like felt comfortable, like opening up and, and connecting with each other and relating about your experiences in the military. So it's just, it's just nice to hear that there was you know, even though it's woodworking, it was really a way like a good icebreaker to, for all of you to bond and give each other that peer support. Absolutely. Yeah, well, I think that's really awesome. And so and so I know that something unfortunate happened, someone, someone got injured, and you had to put the club aside. So tell us a little bit about about that time. I imagine that wasn't, you know, that wasn't very pleasant, considering how the club was very therapeutic and, and, you know, like a peer support for everyone involved.

Yeah, absolutely. And honestly, you would think my wife was one that got injured in this scenario, just the way from the reaction. But yeah, I mean, you know, obviously, we're using some pretty dangerous tools. And so, you know, one of the workers was using our table sod, no, was cutting a piece of wood down. And somehow, I don't know, maybe he had all the safeties on the guard and everything, but it ended up shooting a piece of wood back and getting them in the stomach. So it wasn't, you know, like, a terrible injury. However, it was eye opening, just because here I am just a guy with a shop and tools and inviting people over without really thinking about all the liabilities, insurance and things that could be needed. Thankfully, I had been working with this warrior for you know, a while we were good friends, it wasn't that bad. So, you know, it didn't turn into anything bad, but did freak me my wife out. Yeah, you know, we we stopped doing that. I still have all the all the tools and equipment in the shop. But I shifted gears. I, I went to the PX one day. So on Fort Campbell, hint, there's this company that had this laser, you know, just in the front of the shop. And there were engraving Little Jack Daniels bottles or something with like people's name and rank on it. And that was like my first like, entryway, it was like my gateway laser. Because I just got addicted right there on the spot. I was like, this is the coolest thing ever. Like how much did these things cost? Like, can I just go sit up anywhere and do this. And it kind of led to where I am now having a laser. And I definitely didn't just buy it the next day. But it took a little bit of time to get this. But, you know, that was kind of where I shifted winter workers to something else. And now I'm kind of thinking, I can create products, and I can still give back and you know, get back to that peer support type of thing where I'm helping workers and their families is just not not me personally doing it. So you know, off the sales, I can help donate to nonprofits that do the work, and I can still feel good about it.

Yeah, absolutely. Without any liability. So it's good to hear that the person that got injured, didn't sue you, or, you know, because you guys knew each other well enough that it wasn't intentional, you know, in any way to get them injured. And however, that was a good sign, you know, for you and your wife to be like, Okay, we, you know, probably should pivot here. And, you know, make sure that we don't let this repeat again.

Absolutely. Yeah. And

you know, I know, today, you decided to keep the name of of your club at that time. And I'm curious. I'm curious if at that time, was it? Was it formalized? Or was it more of like, like, Oh, this is like an informal club. And this is the name of it?

Yeah, no, it was 100%. Informal, right. I even had a different logo than okay. I mean, it was terrible. But the name The name was the name stuff. It's important to me and like what I do and the mission and honestly, I've had all the handles for all the social medias for so many so many years. Like, I just figured I'd just keep it you know, it'd be way more challenging coming up with something new even though it's a tongue twister. I just I was like, I want to keep it

Yeah, I mean, even though I like obviously was talking untwisted like early on, I think it's a clever name and wounded Woodworkers. You know, if you've just got to say it slowly, like, and then you're able to get it down. But I challenge anyone to say that five times fast. We had. So you know, you wanted to keep the brand. So tell us a little bit about, you know, the, the reasoning behind your brand. I mean, I think the title itself is obvious. But the slogan from what I'm seeing in your backdrop here is empowering, or sorry, engraving memories and honoring heroes. Tell us about that.

Yeah, absolutely. So, so this is where the shift came. So, you know, the focus of the woodworking at first was, you know, to provide therapy to others in the peer support, and when I had to remove remove myself from the liability of that, I still wanted to do it, like my entire life. My, even my full time career is about giving back to those who have served, I mean, that it's important to me. So, you know, and then honestly, this, this shift in the economy is really, what ignited it the most. And I saw firsthand how nonprofits were suffering, donations are down. I mean, a lot of people out there still want to provide support, but financially, they can't, you know, so how I want to have the, you know, business structured is and why the name and all this is, I still want to provide support to only boys and their families. And through woodworking, so I have to sell a product for its raise this money, that way, I can donate it to the organizations that can provide the support that I can't. So, and that's super important to me, though, it's like, the mission behind it, but not so much the product or what I do. Mostly just the mission of helping.

Yeah, yeah, and one thing that we talked about offline is, you know, the thing with entrepreneurship is it's, it's people don't always have, it's not always, like, it's not always financial, like, like, not everyone's reasons to be in business is to just make money. I mean, of course, we need to make money, you know, we need to keep the lights on and, you know, pay for overhead and all the things, you know, but also, I think, what, what keeps people in the game, you know, what, what keeps people in business is the impact is, is being able, like, knowing that you are serving people, and I know that is, you know, I know, that's something that is important to you and something that you are aspiring to do, as you know, you are intentionally like working working out the details to take, take this to the next level.

Absolutely. That's that's what it's all about. Yeah.

So tell us now about the Rosie network, because I know that the Rosie network opened up your eyes to a lot of things like some things you didn't know. But some things you didn't realize that you already you already had.

Sure. Yeah. So the rosy network is this is where the light, you know, flipped on set. For the longest time I had, I've had the laser for years, I've been creating products. However, it's been just a hobby, know, people's birthdays Christmas time, you know, not not a lot thought behind it. And when I experienced the Rosi network, which, you know, coincidentally, it was just because I wanted to see what it was about before telling other people about the opportunity, I want to make sure that I read it that way, when I'm telling others, what it's like, I can explain it, you know, so I didn't intend on starting a business or, you know, don't becoming an entrepreneur at all, never had any clue that it would be something I'd be doing, for sure. Like, definitely not me. But going through the class, you know, it was it was very open eye opening, just because you get it's a cohort setting. So you're with other veterans or military spouses who either have a business and they're trying to grow it, or maybe they're in the idea stage, and they're just trying to figure things out. And you get to work with these folks every week. And each week, you learn about a topic about, you know, business, you know, starting with, like, your why the mission, the vision, I mean, everything. And it's cool, just seeing how other people grow and what they talk about and bouncing ideas off of each other. And when I started telling the last the rest of the class about what I do, they're like, Well, why aren't you rich? Like, like, you know, and I'm just like, Well, I mean, I don't know I just kind of make it for friends and family and you know, word of mouth right now. I mean, I didn't really think much about it just because I'm focused. Full Time on my career, this is more of a hobby, but they're like, well, your hobby can make money. So I started really focusing more on like, the things I might have been missing because honestly, I didn't realize that I had so much of the business already, I just didn't, just didn't realize how I couldn't be a business. So I mean, the 12 week class really just opened my eyes gave me a lot of resources provided me some mentors that have really helped me. And, you know, now I'm just trying to see where I can go.

Yeah. What are what were some of the things that, you know, your cohort members, and your mentor said, like, like, Jacob, you already got this? Like, what are some of those things you already had?

Yeah. Well, I mean, I had, I had a business plan, kind of, like, it wasn't like an official one. But like, I already had, like, the mission and vision and goals and like ideas. I was already making products already had customers. I was keeping track of my sales, you know, in Excel, which I still, I'm still doing. But, you know, I had all this, you know, down, I just didn't really, I don't know, I'm still missing, like the the legal entity. You know, sole proprietor currently. But, you know, obviously, that's not very safe back back to the liability thing, right. So, I'm working on that. So like, there's just a couple, like, legal things, and then bookkeeping and taxes. You know, that's, that's typically the next step. But other than that, you know, like, I've already had the social media, or even dealing with customers creating things for them getting reviews, but, and I was still in the mindset of like, this is just a hobby, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So they just kind of made it click really easily. For me, it's like you already do this, or you already have this, like, why are you even in this class? And I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. Right? Like, just because I have equipment, and I can make something and sell it doesn't mean, I know anything about running a business. So yeah, I definitely. I learned a lot.

Yeah, you know, this whole, like, Okay, well, I have everything, and it's good. And like everyone likes it. But I just haven't done the legal stuff. It kind of sounds like, I don't know why I'm making this comparison. But it just sounds like like you've been like you've been like you have you've had a girlfriend for so long. And then everyone's like, when are you going to propose to her? When are you going to get married. And so that's kind of what it sounds like. And it seems like, you know, the cohort programs like, Hey, you got to legalize this, you got to do all these things. And so anyway, that was just like the analogy that kind of popped up in my head, hearing you talking, and, and you know what, though, like, I just one thing I learned, like, when I first started in business, I did, I did start with all the legal stuff like I, you know, I filed a fictitious name, I got my my agreements down, you know, all the, like, all the formal things that I thought I had to do. But I feel like when when I actually turned on the business, I kind of knew nothing about sales and marketing, and I didn't have a network just yet of, you know, I had to actively build that out. And, and I feel like at the time, I was more caught up in, in the legal details. And I was and in actually like, you know, the sales and building a clientele. And so I think that you, you definitely started off on the right foot to focus on, you know, offering value first, because some people can, some people can do all the formal stuff initially, kind of, like, you know, you get your real estate license, or you get, you know, you become like a life insurance agent. But like, I think what most people don't don't know, or don't realize, once they get license, it's kind of like getting a college degree, like, just because you get a college degree, it doesn't mean you're gonna get a job, like right outside of college, like you still have to market yourself, you got to put your resume out there. And I think that, you know, you you started off the right way you focused on doing something you love, and, you know, bringing together a bunch of other veterans who enjoyed it, and you know, having a clientele and having all these reviews and actually, you know, generating sales. And, and so, you know, I honestly, if I had to, you know, pick between someone who's just getting started and doing all the legal stuff, versus someone in your situation, I'd go through your situation and, and I hope you know, that like that is a very advantageous situation to be in where it's like, now you just got to formalize it, you know, like, now you just, you know, now you gotta get married. You don't I mean, like, now you gotta, like, do the formal stuff. And, and I, you know, and I think that there's, there's no one way to do business, like there's so many different routes to becoming an entrepreneur and that's what I find. That's what I like about your story. It's like, okay, I was like, you know, I was this hobbyist for a long time. And, and now, all you have to do is formalize it like when you're ready to do that

Yep, yep, almost there. We're working on it.

Yeah. So, you know, um, like, I know, you mentioned that, like donations are really are down across the boards right now when it comes to nonprofits, and I know that part of what you want to do is, you know, build up your your hobby into a business in a way that you could donate. So, but also it kind of, I think we, what we talked about offline is you're a little bit at a crossroads as well. It's like, it's like, how, how much of your time and energy can you put in your business? You know, while also balancing your full time job, while also making sure family time is important. So, so tell us a little bit about that, you know, this place you're in right now, you know, it's like you want to get there. But you know, there's a lot of things going on at the same time. But for you to get there. Yeah,

well, I'll first start off with highly caffeinated definitely wouldn't be able to do without caffeine, or or sleep, I can't really spend much time doing that, which, you know, obviously not an advocate for that's important. However, yeah, I am at that crossroads, because I'm in a weird situation, right? A lot of people become entrepreneurs, because they want to be their own boss. Maybe they hate what they do, or, or whatnot. But I'm in a weird place, right? I love my job. I'm passionate about it. It's incredible. Like, if I can literally do both of these things full time. I would. I just, I just haven't figured that part out yet. Because, yeah, I've got a family. It's about to get bigger.

Oh, congratulations. Yeah.

I know. So now now, it's really changed my mindset, right? Because I'm like, I feel like I'm almost there. However, like, I would love to hire someone to like, take over most of it while I can still be here and run it if they need, but I'm just not there yet. Right? Like, I don't, I don't have I don't have the customer base or money yet. So. And I'm leaving both ways, right? Like, I could go 100% in on this and chance it or just continue to do what I love every day. And I know I'm getting paid from my current full time, job. And then and just work this out. You know, so I'm gonna just work on growing this slowly. I know, I've talked to a lot of mentors, and they're like, you gotta go fall in you got to take the leap. And yeah, yeah, I mean, I understand that. But I just My situation is very unique. So I mean, I don't have I don't have to,

yeah, it's it's like, it's, it's your if you're not, if you're fed, you're not hungry, you know, meaning like, like you are in a in a wonderfully unique situation where you enjoy your job. And, and here's the thing, I, I really don't like this idea that you have to hate your job to do entrepreneurship. I mean, yes, I have a similar story where like, I got into entrepreneurship, just because I couldn't hold down a job. And it was really coming from, like, a negative place. But I'd like to believe that you could start a business out of out of joy, not out of like, anger or bitterness, or, you know, but I don't know, I don't know, because obviously, we're, you know, this is the situation you're in. And, you know, I'd be very curious to hear other people's stories who've been able to, like work full time and have their business on the side, but not hate their job. Like, it's, it is a very unique situation. And it's my hope that if if you, you know, if you choose to stick with this, you're gonna be one of those testimonies or testimonials of like, yeah, you could, you could have it all, you know, you can enjoy your job, and you can enjoy your business. But I think it sounds to me, like for you, it's more of like, like, bandwidth. It's like, how do you find the time to do that? How do you generate enough revenue to, like you said, you know, hire someone to or hire, you know, one or two people to help you. Obviously, you still want to be involved, because you you love this work. But at the same time, you know, like, it's got to grow so that you can create more impact with these nonprofits who are struggling for donations. And that's really important for you to, to, you know, serve in that way and give back in that way.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I just wish that you know, I work wish right, you know, we should hope No, no, the goal would be yes. To do exactly that. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah. I hope I get there.

Yeah. Well, let's, let's just entertain the idea of, like, what would it look like for you to get there? Like, if you, I don't know, like, like, what do you think? What else do you think you need for you to start that path? To get there, you know, to get there to hire someone. You know, to get that help? Like, how do you think If we actually did something about it, well, how would that play out? What do you think? Like, we're just brainstorming right now, you know, we're not asking for, like, ultimate answers here. But, you know, since we're dreaming, why not dream big, right? Like, why not continue to brainstorm these ideas and flush them out?

Yeah. And I put a lot of thought into this, not this exact answer. But the scenario. I'm kind of at that point where everything's ready. Everything's in line, everything's set up, other than the entity. But, you know, I just need to have, the more more help with, like, the marketing aspect in generating the clients, you know, everything else is there, like I get I get, I get customers, but it's not enough to, like, justify anything. You know, it's, it's, you know, pennies on $1. Right, right now, so, you know, as long as I can create that, whether it's no business, the business or business, the customer, either way will work. But I just need to start that, start getting that to happen before. And so like, I feel like I'm just like, one step away, I'm just just kind of missing something. But working on, you know, get getting that figured out.

Yeah, it sounds to me, it's like a, like, you need to have your marketing strategy on, right. Because it's like, if you want to have, in order to have more clients, you have to create more exposure. And, and I think part of that exposure is like marketing. So I mean, obviously being on the show is part of that. And who knows, maybe maybe like starting that path of like having a media kit, if if the road network hadn't show, like taught you that already. And, you know, pitching, pitching your story to other podcast shows, or, you know, other media outlets, like I mean, that could possibly, you know, be an opportunity for you. But, you know, it does sound like like, you know, there's like that one more thing. And, and, you know, I think the the beauty of your situation is that you have time, I think, and I know, everyone's pressuring you to everyone's pressuring you to be like, You got to start now you gotta like go all the way. But it's like, you've been at this for eight years, what's another year or two or three? Especially because you're going to, you know, your family is about to get bigger? Like, what's, what is genuinely the rush? And, and so anyway, that's a rhetorical question.

Well, that's perfect. And yeah, and so anyone that may, you know, be in this similar boat, you know, I mean, I spent a lot of time listening to marketing podcasts, watching YouTube, on marketing and talking to marketers on LinkedIn. So I mean, all you really got to do is, you know, take that information in, and then actually do something with it. So like, right now, I'm taking a lot of it in taking the notes, and I'm just waiting to act, you know, so like, and I'm probably slowing my own self down. Honestly, I could probably do it right now. But the bandwidth, like you mentioned, is kind of a problem at the moment.

Yeah. And I think that's completely valid. I, I've definitely had, you know, seasons in my own in my own entrepreneurial journey, where, you know, sometimes, either I don't have enough time, or I do have a lot of time, and I don't know where to go next. But what I tend to find is most helpful is in those, those low moments, like in those moments, where you don't really know what to do. Education, like self education really helps. So it's, it's great that, you know, even if you're not taking action just yet, you don't know, like, maybe maybe it's gonna be that next podcast you listen to, or that next audio book you listen to, or, you know, something where you're like, okay, like, I think I think I got the green light I need. And, and so I, I wish, I wish the I'm most optimistic for you, Jacob and your inner journey. And, you know, I'm maybe I'm just a very supportive person. But I just think that like, and I know that I just think that, like, you know, this is this is in your own time, because like, even if people are giving you all this advice, like you're the one living with the consequences, right? It's like you don't, you don't want to sacrifice the time you want to have with your family, your growing family. And so it's just a journey you're on. And I think, I think it's really good to just openly talk about this to say, Yeah, sure, you know, people can chime in and give you advice and tell you where to go and what to do. But ultimately, it's your journey. It's your business, and it's your baby. So it's really up to you on where you want to take it and, and I just, you know, I think it's okay to be in this in this season of your life right now. You know?

Absolutely. I'm glad somebody else feels that way.

Yeah, it gets me to think about my other project. I have a side project. It's like a passion project of mine. And I've been, you know, kind of similar to you. I've had it for about I think I've had it for About, I don't know, like, six, seven years now. And although although it's generating revenue, it's enough to like, it's enough to pay for just the overhead, but it's not enough to, like pay me if that makes sense. And so, and I just think to myself, like, well, you know, that's not my bread and butter, like, you know, I do have, I do run a business with my husband, and that's paying the bills. And, you know, and I have a lot of work to do here. And I just think like, this is my business, or this is my passion project, I still enjoy it, I learned a lot about I learned a lot about myself and doing it, like, what is genuinely the rush to make it successful. And, you know, I think the entrepreneurial life is very, like, you gotta get on the fast track, you got to grow as fast as possible. It's like, there's always like, this sense of urgency, with with this journey that I think can sometimes be a turnoff to some people, or it could be a disappointment, because maybe they're disappointed in themselves for not like being as successful as they would want to be. So. So yeah, and I, and I guess I'm just here to say that it's your journey, it's your life, it's your business, it's your brand. And if anyone hasn't told you lately, like, it's, it's okay. It's okay to be where you're at. And we're openly talking about it. And, you know, and hopefully, people who are listening who maybe have been, you know, sitting on on an idea or a hobby for a while, won't be so hard on themselves, you know, and, I mean, sure, if you need that push, great. But again, like, you have what you have, and you're clearly you clearly love what you do at your job. And, you know, maybe all your mentors are like do not listen to Jen. Like how, you know, she is giving you the worst advice ever. But I just I just I can recognize why you are you are where you are at, you know, with with your business.

Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you for that. You're welcome.

Yeah. I feel like it was like an odd pep talk we had just now.

I feel better about myself, though. Oh, good.

I'm glad, I'm glad. I'm glad I can validate validate your situation. And, and, you know, it kind of it reminds me of, like, when I in the past, when I talked to military spouses who, you know, they had this business, like they, their business wasn't their bread and butter. But as soon as they like, they still like went at it during the military life. And then when they transition out, that ended up being their full time thing. Like they finally have the time to go all the way with it. And I just think that, you know, it's great that it's great that you have this, you know, because one day you will, you will have the time to really grow it to its full potential. And, and I'm just optimistic for you. So, yeah, well, anyway, I didn't realize I didn't realize I was gonna turn to a pep talk. But, um, but yeah, I'm curious to know now on like, on your end, now that you're feeling better, I guess. I'm glad to help you make you feel better. Um, you know, how would you say this? You know, how would you say your journey could relate to the military and knowing knowing what you even do for a living and, you know, like coaching veterans on careers on their own careers? Like, you know, reflecting on it now, like, is there anything you want to say, say to our community today to our military community?

Yeah, I mean, absolutely. So. And it definitely rates more so like military transition, just in general? Yeah, I feel like myself included when I got out, but everyone that I speak with, you know, and this is a daily basis with transitioning servicemembers is they sometimes feel tied to their MOS or their job that they've done for the last several years. But like, once you're off base, you realize like, that's a big world. And once you get out there into the wild, the civilian sector, we only make up like, 6% of the workforce. So, you know, there's 1000s, if not millions, I don't even know, but there's the least 1000s of different jobs out there that you can do. I mean, you can literally do anything you want. And that's like one of the biggest things that I honestly even me like I didn't think about, like, I transitioned out from the military doing human resources, and I, I tried to transition right into human resources and realize it's a little bit different. And I was I was really good at adapting to it. And it was a great career for a while, but not everyone has to do that. Like you can get out and do anything you want. You know, you don't have to just, hey, I've got 20 years and logistics that I'm gonna get somebody to do logistics, you know, if you don't like logistics go to do something you like. Right? You know, I just wish people found out what they're passionate about quicker in life. That way they can just save years of misery. You know, go get that job, because it's probably out there.

Do you do you feel like you observe that a lot where a lot of transitioning service members just have to have to get the job like whatever job they can get.

Yeah, every day, like even today, for example, I was at Fort Campbell teaching a transition class for LinkedIn, and networking. And I was speaking to all of them, and none of them really know what they want to do when they get out. But they know that they need something fast, because, you know, financial insecurity, benefits, they may be the breadwinner in the household. And so yeah, it's stressful, and they feel like they just need to take that debt first and come in. And statistically, that that speaks volumes, because it's like 80, something percent of transitioning service members leave their first job in the first year. And other 20s the second year, so. And so statistically, yeah, just popping the job. And usually it doesn't last, but you know, if they can think about it earlier, really figure out what they enjoy in life, and then see how they can get paid doing that. Yeah, save so much time. So much headache. And I mean, honestly, he's so much happier.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think that even in, like, when we talk to the clients that my husband I work with, there's, it just seems like, toward the end of transition, it's just all so rushed, right? It's also rush, you get all these things thrown your way, all these last minute decisions, or things you're hearing about for the first time to make a decision of within the next 24 hours, if anything, that is just all so rushed, that it doesn't surprise me that, you know, they end up quitting that first job in post the military, and then even more so like percentage you mentioned and more so of, like, quit within the second year. And I am curious to know, from from your perspective, it's like, like, when would be, when would be an ideal time? And when when can they think of think of like, what do they actually want to do, and they, quote, unquote, grow up. Because when you think about the military life, it's very easy to get caught up in the routine of it. Which is why it seems like a lot of transitioning service members, like just feel so rushed, you know, because it just come it almost feels like it comes out of the blue and I know in your situation was very up or up. But when when do you think would be a good time, you know, to, and luckily, luckily, you as a, as a career coach are able to capture these people and you know, kind of wake them up to the opportunity. But if, if it didn't have to be so last minute, when would you say would be the perfect time? You know, to start thinking about this?

Yeah, and you know, that's tough. You know, it just even my own experience, like I thought I was just going to, you know, join for years and, you know, be on my way. But I had a couple of reimbursements and ended up staying and I liked it. And then I didn't like, like it. Yeah, so So I mean, as early as they can, you know, I mean, even if you're not thinking about transitioning out, you know, it's always good to kind of think about, like, what do you like to do? What do you enjoy doing? What are you good at, you know, you gotta you gotta combine the two, this is this is different, right? Because you can like something and be terrible at it. I like playing basketball, however, I will never be in the NBA. You know, they do have to be pretty close. As for as far as what you enjoy, and what you're good at. But if you can find out what you're passionate about early. So, you know, for transitioning, you know, a year or two out, I mean, two years, you know, or even more. I mean, it would be great. A lot of people don't think about it till one year, six months out. Someone in my last class was my classes on a Friday, and they were out of the army Monday. And I'm like, yeah, it's it's a little, it's a little late to build your network. But we're going to start right now. So yeah, we built it right then and there. But, you know, so as early as you can, will be. But you know, sometimes you're not you're not thinking about that, and that's okay. Yeah, you just got to realize, you know, once you figure out what you're passionate about life is awesome.

That's wonderful. Yeah. And clearly, you're in a great place in your career, that you really get to enjoy helping out your fellow, you know, service members and veterans and and I think it's great like, clearly, clearly you love what you do, because we just, I feel like we had a whole different podcast episode just now. Talking about your work with wounded warriors, and, and I think it's great. It's great clearly, clearly you enjoy what you do. And I just, I appreciate like having this conversation with you. Um, and yeah, like, let's figure out how to conclude this, I mean, it, I want to make sure that you share everything you want to share to our community. And, you know, holding on to for for season seven is really more hyper focused on the transitioning service member and military retirees. And so, you know, based on your journey, like, if you didn't mention anything else, if you didn't mention this already, you know, if there's, is there anything else you want to say, to speak to? You know, our community that you haven't already said?

Yeah, I'll probably just repeat it. But, you know, I really think that it's important that if you feel strongly about doing something, you go for it. I know, it's a little contradictory, since I haven't made that easy yet fully. But, you know, I just feel like you can, you can do a lot more than just working nine to five, you know, yeah, that's if you want to work nine to five, that's great. I mean, I don't mind it. But you know, you don't have to. And then honestly, you the weirdest business ideas happen just by trying? Like, No, honestly, I didn't think I'd be, you know, becoming a business. I thought I'd just make some cool stuff for like, family members for Christmas, or, you know, holidays. And then people are like, hey, like, how much do you charge for that? It just has, like, Well, I haven't really thought about that. So you know, I just feel like, once you start doing something, and you really enjoy it, and you find out people pay you for it, you're you're in probably in the best place your life. You just got really just continuing to grow from there.

Yeah, yeah. I feel like you were kind of coaching yourself up just now also.

On chat, right, on the edge, right?

Yeah. Well, we hope, we hope that you make it over the edge. And we'd really love to continue following your journey, Jacob. And I think, you know, this season of your life is just as valid as even the early stages of you starting your club to you know, and I do hope that it turns into a business. And, you know, this is the worst, this is probably the worst advice that goes against all your other mentors, but I don't think there's any rush, especially if you already are happy with a lot of things in your life. And, you know, I think that you can the fact that you have a good business, or a good business model and people like that you got customers for, like you said, I think there's going to be a moment where you're going to know, when it's time to really turn it on. And until then you're you're doing a lot of self education, you're openly talking about it, which I think is another thing too, because now you're gonna have people reach out and say, Hey, Jacob, did you do it? Did you? You know, did you finally finalize it? Did you actually, you know, do an LLC Did you, you know, finally get married, you know, figuratively speaking. And, and I and it's my hope that, you know, our listeners and your and your community will, you know, hold you accountable to that. And, and even if you don't go all the way, like, Hey, it's your business, it's your life. It's, it's your consequences. It's your family that you want to spend time with. And I just appreciate you sharing this because I think, I think I think a lot of times when people come on a show, they they feel like they have to be like polished or they have to like act like they've quote unquote, made it. And I don't care about I don't always care about featuring Matt. So thank you for just being so candid and transparent about your journey into entrepreneurship right now.

Yeah, I mean, that's how you're always gonna get me. Yeah, I am. I'm authentic. So you're gonna get what I deliver. I don't I don't care if it's stuttering or wrong. You know, I'm going to tell you exactly how I feel and what I've been through. Because I feel like that's how more people relate. You know, they're not gonna relate to me being perfect. No, I've made a lot of mistakes. I'm still making them. It's okay. Yeah. So I mean, I feel like everyone just needs to know that.

Absolutely. Yeah. I, I, what I love about even just the entrepreneurial mind, and entrepreneurial minded people, or aspiring entrepreneurs is just that mindset of humility and modesty. And it's like, Hey, I don't know all the answers. I'm not perfect. I'm not Polish. And we're all just trying to figure it out. We're all just trying to figure out like, the right business model or the marketing message that can better serve other people. So So yeah, so thank you for your authenticity and your and for being candid with me. And I apologize for like the impromptu pep talk, but I do hope it was helpful. Yes, perfect. Thank you. And, and with that said, Jay, uh, Jacob, thank you again, so much for being on our show. It's been such a pleasure chatting with you and to our listeners. We hope you got a lot of value out of this. And we'll chat with you in the next episode till the next time. All right, and then give me one second